>>1830889
This is probably bait but whatever
>P.S. Fuck you if you think Westerners shouldn't be proud, you're retarded.

Being proud of being 'Western' is fucking retarded, because its' an extremely arbitrary categorisation that has no precedent other than by retarded and disproven pre-Victorian ethnographer

Nobody cares or gets annoyed if you're proud of being Spanish, German, Italian, American or whatever, but if you're proud of being 'Western' it's clear you're both a pseud and highly insecure

You shouldn't expect someone from Madrid, someone from Berlin, someone from Dublin and someone from Novgorod to be proud of the same categorisation the same way you shouldn't expect someone from Lhasa, someone from Saigon, someone from Beijing and someone from Tokyo to be proud of the same 'Eastern' categorisation

>>1830889

>As a German

Why do you feel proud over the thing your ancestors tried to destroy for thousand years?

>>1830899
Ok so you deny that there are common attributes that all Westerners share? If you do not then I see no problem with being proud of those common attributes. How does this make me a pseud and insecure?

Here's the problem. Many of those common attributes were created by the Greeks and the Romans, not the Germans, but I am still proud of them for some reason. Idk maybe I am not really and I just like what the Greeks and Romans did.

>>1830911
Yeah see this is my problem.

>>1830889
Racial/ethnic/ancestral pride is foolish. Doesn't matter if you're a WEWUZKANGZ or a WEWUZGREEKZ. Have pride in yourself, don't steal your glory from dead men.

you're american not english or german

why are americans so cringeworthy ffs

>>1830899
fpbp

>>1830928
There are common attributes that all [more or less arbitrary and irrelevant categorisaitons] share

>>1830889
>with Greece and Rome.

The basis of Hellenism and urban Roman culture was essentially multiculturalism. Look at the later Empire, in the east and west, Goths and other Germanic peoples proliferated and it was entirely negative. Hell, even the Ostrogothic Italian, the Visigothic Iberian, the Vandalic North African, and the Frankish kingdoms were all pretty neat and cultured.

You also must realize that your heritage is similar to the same as the founding fathers, and English aristocrats who had absolutely no issue with reconciling their ethnic and linguistic heritage with that of their classical interests?

>>1830931
I've noticed there's almost an inverse correlation between the amount of pride you have in things that aren't to do with yourself and how successful you are in life

>>1830941
>and it was entirely negative.

was not entirely negative*

>>1830889
Keep in mind that "Western" is an euphemism for "White". It's just less offensive to say "Western Civilization" than "White Civilization".

>>1830933
Its really ironic too, because their ancestors probably fought to establish their american identity, but they just want to shit all over it.
Its only fucking yanks that do this, you're an american, please stop trying call yourself european because you're nothing like us.

>>1830942
This is probably true, but I am only 20 and I study history. What else do I have to be proud of? My high school diploma? Ha!

>>1830954
My ancestors were loyalists.

>>1830954
I'm not OP, but Europeans are lying if they say they don't do this.

>my Italian great-grandfather!
>yes I am Russian because my parents are, even though I was born in Brussels, no, I don't speak it.

You suffer from the same issues, being "western" isn't cool, which creates a hierarchy of continually more ethnic identities

>>1830954
>Its only fucking yanks that do this

Who elso would do it? America is one of the only places that's successful and used to be a colony (aka has a tremendous connection with another nation). Canadians are like this too, for the same reason. There are people in Canada who still speak French. You bet your ass they associate themselves with France. It only makes sense. South America is tricky because they're unsuccessful and mixed-raced people tend to be the dominant peoples. Though those who have Amero-Indian ancestry do to have tremendous pride for that part of their heritage.

My ancestors fought hard to develop their own identities and were successful. But they were also proud of their heritages as well and their heritages are what made them successful in the first place so I see no problem with being proud of that. Honestly you sound like a butthurt Englishman who doesn't want Americans associated with HIS people.

>>1830899
>rhetoric
lol substance pls
>>1830911
Destroy Rome, yes.
Destroy civilization, no.
>>1830939
>more or less arbitrary and irrelevant categorisaitons
I don't like how you say this as if it means something, all categories are necessarily arbitrary because how does one vindicate drawing any lines anywhere which can be defended absolutely from someone coming along and claiming they are arbitrary.
Essentially, your objection is uninteresting and you should stop posting.
>>1830941
>Hellenism and urban Roman culture was essentially multiculturalism.
no
Stealing the good things and assimilating them is not multiculturalism, cultures other than Hellenic or Latin survived being assimilated into Hellenic or Latin (as in they became non-distinct)
>>1830942
What is the correlation?
>>1830954
>please stop trying call yourself european because you're nothing like us.
lel, no, WE
>>1830993
>being "western" isn't cool
It's the coolest shit in the world, get the fuck out.
"Western" is becoming synonymous with "American" it has been going on like this ever since our retarded fatherland Europe went ballistic in a fit of rage and lit itself on fire.

>>1831009
>America is one of the only places that's successful and used to be a colony (aka has a tremendous connection with another nation)

are you fucking retarded

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>>1830889

>So I am an English and German American

Maybe I'm presuming to much, but I think I understand where you're coming from. I'm an Irish American. It sucks to be an American if you care about history and ethnic or racial identity.

>I feel a tremendous amount of pride when I study Greece. Is it wrong for me to feel this way?

Why would it be? If you look at it culturally or intellectually, European civilization has benefited hugely from them. If you look at it religiously, you shared gods with them--- there are many parallels between Greco-Roman and Germanic gods. If you look at it genetically, you share some ancestors with them.

Like it or not, they're the most fleshed out characters we have from the ancient European world. Of course you feel more empathy for them. The only good accounts we have from classical civilization and before is from them.

>>1830982
Well then your ancestors weren't retarded. I can't say the same for you
>>1830993
No we don't. You don't see your first example except from yanks, and your second example is a false equivalency; at least people with russian parents can apply for dual citizenship. whereas you yanks like to claim that, like op, because some relative from hundreds of years ago was european, you are that nationality. its embarassing
>>1831009
You don't have to define what a colony is for me, I'm british, we know what they are.
You're misinterpreting my argument. I have no problem with yanks being proud of their heritage or whatever, but don't try and say (like in the op) that you are the nationality your ancestors were. Unless your parents are of those nationalities, you're not english, nor german. You're american. That was my argument. Don't put words in my mouth.
Also, what >>1831025 said

>>1831025
Name some more then... Thinking only of post colonialism era. So no ancient colonies.

>>1831051
You're the only person so far who has given me a legitimate response, thanks. I agree with you. I just hate how the Germans constantly battled the Roman Empire. I need to figure out what made Julius Caesar say that the Germans couldn't be civilized but the Gauls could. I guess just fighting spirit.

>>1831089
what is
>canada
>hong kong
>south korea
>australia
>indonesia

>>1831054
One of my great grandfathers was German. Everyone in my family emigrated post 1850. I am the OP and I said I was Anglo Saxon because it was relevant to the content of the post. The post would have made no sense if I said, "I am American, is it ok for me to feel proud of the ancient Greeks?" I could have been a GREEK American and this post wouldn't have even existed. Stop being an asshole.

>>1831107
I mentioned Canada so there are four places I didn't mention. I said, "one of." "one of" could have meant "one of four." Did you think I meant, "one of three"? Because then you'd have an argument.

>>1831097
Caesar essentially labelled groups Germans or Gauls depending on what side of the Rhine they were on; I wouldn't worry so much about that. Tacitus generally speaks approvingly about the virtues of "Germans", and those Romans battled Germanic peoples with other Germanic auxiliaries

>>1831124
Just think about what you're saying. One of your great grandfathers was german. meaning that realistically, over 100 years ago one of your family members was german. do you realise how stupid it sounds to then claim you're german?
>stop being an asshole
i'll stop being an asshole when you realise its ok to just be an american. you're not german, you're not english.

>>1831135
>moving the goalposts: the post
It's okay to admit you were wrong, you know.
>india
>brazil
>singapore

>>1831148
calm the fuck down you cunt

that being said let us all agree to let this thread die. It's barely /his/ relevant and whatever minor relevancy it had was answered very quickly

>>1831155
mate how the fuck am i being angry? bursting the yanks little bubble that he's not european? fuck off. i'm more than happy to let this thread die.

>>1830889
>I am an English and German American
How many generations lol

>>1831148
India is not successful because they were a colony.... Nor are they the same type of colony that I was referring to... the type that is inhabited pretty much solely by the parent nation's people. Brazil is successful? They were successful in the past, sure, and I bet that when they were they had pride for their European descent. Also I covered SA nations. I don't know anything about Singapore but I bet they don't fall under the category of colony that I was talking about.

Fine want me to re-word the title? "As an American of Anglo-Saxon/German descent..." This is what I meant anyways and you know it. Nobody like me legitimately feels that they ARE German or Irish or Italian, we just say, "I'm German" instead of "My ancestors were German" because that's what has become common practice to say... Stop misinterpreting that line.

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>>1831097

Why do you hate that the Germans battled Romans? The western empire didn't fall just because of Germans.


>>1831138

The other part of this is you have to understand what the Romans meant by "civilized". To a Roman, for another group to be civilized was for them to have a compatible society, change their ways, or accept Roman hegemony through force.

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ITT: muh heritage

>>1831182
lets go back a few posts shall we
>places that's successful and used to be a colony
this was your statement. you then asked me to show example of places that were colonies and are successful. you can't just redefine the word colony to make me wrong. all of the countries I posted were previously colonies and are successful.
Once again, stop moving the goalposts, its making your argument look weak.

>This is what I meant anyways and you know it
But you didn't, did you?
>So I am an English and German American
>As a German Anglo-Saxon
I really can't see how you don't legitimately think that you're german or english. you wouldn't have worded it like that otherwise
>we just say, "I'm German"
and that's where the problem lies. stop doing that because its embarrassing. we have language for a reason

>>1831210
>>1831207
>>1831201
>>1831182
>>1831181
/his/ really needs to value a higher standard of threads. Please, please let this die

>>1831210
You need to understand the context of a sentence before you criticize its components. Fully digest what I was saying and then see if your objection fits. It doesn't.

So you think that I legitimately believe I am a German? Your definition of "German" seems to be strictly, "Person who lives in Germany." Obviously I do not fall under that category. But of course this is a stupid definition of "German" as there are Germanic people all over the place. To be Germanic is different than to be a person from the nation of Germany. I said that I was a German Anglo-Saxon, so I acknowledge that I didn't say "Germanic." I should have, my bad. What I meant was that I am part of two ethnic groups, one Germanic- that stayed in Germania and another- Germanic that left Germania and settled in Briton. I wanted to highlight these two facts about myself because the post is about not being of Greco (?) descent but still feeling prideful of the Ancient Greeks.

>>1831222
Go fuck yourself dude get off your high horse. What is this thread hurting, anyways? Whoa your eyes had to stumble upon this post. Better wash them out.

>>1831302
This level of damage control is fucking delicious. Once more you change the goalposts. Can you do anything else? Let your shit thread die

>>1831340
Damage control? All I did was explain what I said. I never had an argument before you started this whole thing. When you started it my "argument," if you can call it that, took form. Since it took form I have had one argument the entire time, which was that I should have worded my title differently. I then explained to you what I should have said. If you go back, both times I explained this I explained basically the same thing. Whatever man. If you actually had anything substantive to say you would have said it already. But you're just a butthurt Brit. Heh, that's a funny name. Butthurt Brit.

>>1831406
Cool, go jerk yourself off to your english and german heritage.

>>1831419
Yeah, you definitely didn't read this post lmao.

>>1830993

Western used to mean Greek, as opposed to Persian or Asian in general. Then the Greeks conquered everything up to India and western now became the ideas and civilization of the Greek world. So anyone could now be a westerner. Then Rome happened as Greece was fading, as much influenced by the Greek culture as contributing to it with their own roman stuff, to extend and expand the meaning of western. So now western means grecorroman civilization and way of thinking. Then Christianism happened, again as much influenced by grecorroman stuff as contributing to it with their new christian stuff of their own to extend and expand the meaning of western. Now it means grecorroman culture and civilization and Christian spiritual values. Then the Germanics happened as the WRE was fading away and etc and so on.

tl;dr "western" is a concept in progress, but the fundamentals are there in Greece, Rome and Christianity.

>>1830931
Isn't this was Jesus said to the Jews concerning Abraham?