Let's have a real discussion here If coupled with a well-functioning

>some shallow self-indulgence
>orgies
That's a lot more than some.

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We are biological animals, of course we want to fulfill our urges

I never got moralists, desu

As long as you have control, there's nothing wrong with sex or occasional drugs

And if your thing is that you like to have 3 Victoria's secret models suck your dick at once, then go ahead and have fun, it's your life

>>1828516
>there's nothing wrong with sex or occasional drugs
Sure, but it can result in diminishing returns because your pleasure center or whatever the heck it is called gets depleted.
But you said occasional so I guess you got it covered.

>>1828485
All things in moderation. As long as your vices don't bleed into your daily life, you're good. It can be a fine line to walk though.

The only people who complain are religious nutters expressing their impotent rage because they took a prank too far and now they can't take it back.

>>1828485
The whole point Epicurus made was that we shouldn't party hardy because we're setting ourselves up for future pain.

He advised against unnecessary desires. He argued desire would always outpace our means to pay for them.

The folk notion of hedonism is silly.

There is nothing wrong in anything until you do harm to society. But if you are searching for some kind of meaning of life, hedonism and mass consumption are not your friends in that journey.

>>1828556
This ^

>>1828516
>>As long as you have control,
you never ever have control. you do not even control your likes and dislikes

>>1828485
"Rascals are always sociable — more’s the pity! and the chief sign that a man has any nobility in his character is the little pleasure he takes in others’ company."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Engaging in such activity does not necessarily make you unwise, finding entertainment in it does.

>>1828924
>Schopenhauer

>>1828485
>Definition of self–indulgence: excessive or unrestrained gratification of one's own appetites, desires, or whims
Not excessive self-indulgence is an oxymoron.

>>1828485

The question itself is wrong. You're not going to be a well-adjusted person if you behave like a hedonist, your mind isn't made of different independent boxes.

>>1828551
This, also as long as it doesn't hurt other people.

>>1828485
Because you're going to fall victim to the hedonist treadmill. You'll always want more and better pleasures while being unhappy and dissatisfied that you don't have them. Like >>1828556 what this anon said.

>>1828556
I think where Epicureanism is wrong is where Stoicism is right, mainly that displeasure, discomfort, and pain is inevitable so one has to consider it an indifferent and that true happiness can only come from the things in your power, namely you're virtuous or vicious behavior.

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Prince Siddhartha Guatama indulged in hedonism, but denounced it when he discovered illness, aging, and death outside of his egocentric bubble which they call his palace.

>>1828485
First off, The fact you have orgies and snort cocaine points to certain traints you have that will be ubiquitous, they will showthemselves in everything you do and point to certian things about you.
You cannot present parts of people and join them together, thats not how people are.
Second of all the guy in the picture is leading a horrible life and has had 3 heart attacks already.

>>1830125
Second of all, Wrong or right in western society is externalized socially and thus the ultimate wrong or right is the code of laws or even further, if you get caught breaking it.
If you become rich you are exonorated and your path to your richess is justified.
That is modenr wesntern society.
Im israeli so its perhaps easier for me to see this as im in contanct with people who have an internalized moral system in which they are their own judges based on agreed upon normative socuial rules.
So a beduin will banish his wife despite not wanting to because that is the right thing to do despite the fact he is banishing her for something that was betwee nthe tow of them and which he could simply choose to not disclose or reveal to others and not "lose face".
He still chooses to do "whats right".

>>1830138
>He still chooses to do "whats right".
no, he does it because other people expect him to do it

>>1828485
Honestly, it depends on the person in question. I know hedonists who're very educated, and I also know dumb hedonists.

Personally, the lifestyle is not suited for me. As long as you don't openly flout it and try to persuade others to "follow your way", when they're obviously not interested, then I don't have a problem.

Everyone is different. I handle solitude and solitary contemplation better than I do hedonism, but there are people that can do both and there are some who don't care about the former.

>>1829929
Right, but not everyone is genuinely interested in the Dharma. Let people follow their own paths. The point is: you can't walk all paths in life.

However, I advise the OP, if you decide to have kids, then you must forsake the life of hedonism. I say this sincerely. You can temporarily put aside for religious practice, but you have to abandon it entirely if you decide to have kids.

>is hedonism really THAT bad?

spooked

>>1828556
>>1829924

The problem with Hedonism has nothing to do with morality, it deals more with effectiveness. Hedonists strive to find pleasure and satisfaction, but it's all short lived. Cocaine and hookers will leave you empty and hollow eventually.

>>1828485
Dan Bilzerian is so based desu, way more humble than your assume looking at his Instagram posts.

>>1831512
>Cocaine and hookers will leave you empty and hollow eventually.

Yes but so will being successful in your professional field, raising a family, or cultivating diverse interests beyond coke and whores.

And we are right back where we started.

>>1831604
>so will being successful in your professional field, raising a family, or cultivating diverse interests beyond coke and whores

[citation needed]

>>1831512
>The problem with Hedonism has nothing to do with morality, it deals more with effectiveness.
That's how I define morality "the action that leads most to Eudaimonia is the moral action"; in my mind this is the only rational way to define morality.

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On the long run it's not sustainable.

Ideally you want to balance your short term desires with long term goals. You should shoot Heroin and experience a high level of pleasure all the time, but that's short sighted and often leads people to long term unhappiness.

>>1831614
Look around you for examples of the above.

Disillusionment, investments going bad, professional burnout, mid-life crisis, spouse running off, kids disowning you or dying unexpectedly, killed or paralyzed doing your fun hobby....

All of these things are potential downsides while pursuing the spook of "fulfillment." At least hedonism doesn't pretend to be anything more than a gratification of the base impulses.

Chemically, there is no difference between what hedonism offers, and what the "higher" pursuits offer.

>>1828485
>If coupled with a well-functioning life, is hedonism really THAT bad?
Can you really afford an actual hedonistic lifestyle though?

You can do what you want, but if you are a hedonist you are most likely a retard.

>>1828485
imo your example is flawed.

Point out a person that personifies those traits and that you can honestly say is "fulfilled".

fullfillment is an ideal. It is either based on a person-to-person basis or else it doesnt truly exist.

>>1828485
Eh, just because I don't get to experience and enjoy something doesn't mean that nobody should be able to, so it's alright I suppose.

Hedonism seems to be a problem when it's done by the masses.

An emperor doing Dan Bilzerian tier shit is completely OK for the alt right.
But they won't have any of that for themselves. Somehow it's degenerate when they do it.

Talk about cucks.

>>1828485
your opening caveat of "if coupled with a well functioning life" takes your argument and crashes it miserably into the ground like a big fucking airplane with the name "intellectual dishonesty" slapped on the side of it.

the fact of the matter is that you haven't demonstrated that this hypothetical is possible. for instance, with your cocaine parties, would not the reduced productivity during the cocaine withdrawal nix your idea that virtue can coexist with hedonism?

Is paying for sex really wrong?

Everyone is a hedonist. Just because you get pleasure and gratification through something more "noble" doesn't mean you're not a hedonist.

>>1831512
>Cocaine and hookers will leave you empty and hollow eventually.
Why should I care about feeling empty and hollow? Why is feeling empty and hollow a bad thing? Seems like a stupid reason not to take coke and fuck hookers

>>1833273
Not really, no. It's an agreed upon contract of service for payment.

>>1832105
Well, he elaborates upon his meaning after that line.

Have you considered that a willing misinterpretation of someone's point is a form of intellectual dishonesty?

>>1828485
>If it's not too excessive to hurt me or my work, what's wrong with some shallow self-indulgence?
>*has multiple heart attacks before the age of 30*

>>1831301
>>no, he does it because other people expect him to do it
or even, because he does what he thinks other people expect from him. Women cannot do this, since women are egotistical.

>>1833273
Ask yourself, have you ever _not_ paid for sex?

>>1834946
For most people, life after 30 sucks anyway.

Everything you do that involves others affects them. If some hooker at your party ODs on whatever, it's mostly her fault, but it is still partly your fault.

If you're some influential person and you do reckless things, you by definition influence those in your sphere to follow suit, which may lead to negative results.

Even if you manage to perfectly conceal all your bullshit from your children, if they grow up and EVER find out that their amazing successful role model of a father was into blow, what do you think they're going to decide to do?

>>1828485
You have to look this from the highest perspective.

Sadly, what you do personally, despite your personal limits and ability for functionality, has an effect on others. For one, someone may witness your behavior, only to find out their preferences and limits may be even further than yours. By watching you, being inspired to throw caution to the wind, they may be aspired to do the same, but only take it further because their personal limits aren't essentially comparable to yours. That's how the virus spreads essentially. It's a disconcerting situation that we're in as humans. Because it's this lack of discipline that's the reason the world is the way it is.

One man wanted power and just exploited his people a little, the next man exploited a little more because he saw he can get more, more finance, more self-image, all of which is different forms of greed and before you know it....you're a man lined up for power and you now have to make the decision;;; "Am I going to exploit these people and earn many things or am I going to be just fair and exercise temperance and contentment"

But because of the men before you laid many a example, you now are tempted to do as they did. If you can't beat the temptation which is the idea of accumulated wealth at the expense of others, or pride (your self image and how your adored and thought of), chasing every appetite you might have, because hey, the people before you did...when you proceed to do this, others will see it and entertain the same thoughts.

This spreads among the masses though in many forms of evil. It's a delicate game, which is why there are so many few noble and honorable men throughout history.

Cain once asked, "Am I my brothers keeper?"

In the most sensitive ways, I personally believe we are. But I personally understand the struggle with self control, doesn't mean I won't put up a personal fight though. And I have no shame in praying for strength to do so.

>>1829855
>I have no argument so I'm going to insult the source and hope nobody notices.

>>1828485
Nothing is wrong with that, but that isn't hedonism, unless you truly enjoy your work and responsibilities.

Hedonism is continuous unending pleasure seeking. If you can or do give up or forestall that pursuit tto do something you find unpleasurable or simply practical you're not a hedonist. You're just a normal guy who likes to unwind a bit after work.

>>1828485
It's alright.