Who's the most tragic figure in history? [spoiler]pic

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Close but no cigar.

>>1822997
Does anyone still hold any regard to his previous career as a socialist?

>>1823017
It wasn't really that he lost the socialist values of his youth, at least from my understanding, he just got caught up in the intellectual movements of his time.

Whats sadder is how he died. He just wanted to retire after his arrest, but Hitler threatened to start massacring people if he didn't play the role of his bitch, then his own people, the ones he was protecting, shot him dead for being Hitler's bitch.

>>1822997
Some centuries into the future less biased scholars will see him like we view Cesar.

>>1823045
Killing him is one thing. What they did to his body was just atrocious.

>>1823045
>Hitler threatened to start massacring people

[citation needed]

>>1823055
All fashies deserve that treatment desu.

>>1823066
Nobody deserves that treatment, ya fuckin chimp.

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>>1823068
>being this liberal

>>1823075
What the fuck does Sloth have to do with this? You aren't making any sense.

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>assassinated by his people on his way to give the russian people a constitution

>>1823055
Apparently before he died he opened up his coat, giving the 'executioner' a clear shot at his heart, and asked that his face be preserved for burial.

>>1823057
Google it yourself moron. If it's on wikipedia I shouldn't have to deal with you retards.

>>1823090
THIS. What the fuck Russia. Had he lived there would have been no communism, no WW2 and no Cold War.

>>1823123
>Wikipedia

Kek

>>1823075
>fashy goys
Is that a threat, kiddo?

>>1823149
>I don't have an opinion or any knowledge of the subject, but it pushed one of my buttons in the wrong way so I'm going to shit up the conversation
Kill yourself.

>>1823126
this

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She just wanted to make the world a better place

>>1823180
not that guy, but Wikipedia is pretty shit though.

>>1823156
Fashy guys and fashy Jews are both going to hang

>>1823209
>wikipedia doesn't have citations
The point being however, that saying "citation needed" about something that can be found by opening up the most widely used encyclopedia on the planet and reading a single page on a single topic isn't based in genuine interest in the subject, it's just a shitty way to disrupt a conversation.

>>1823204
bolshevists deserve to suffer and burn

>>1823075
Well of course they'd do that after he was dead. The reds were such cowards they were afraid to drag him out of his cell. They had to send a guy in pretending to rescue him, to find out if he had any weapons.

>>1823218
Capitalism is cucking you out of a fulfilling life. Half some self-respect.

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>>1823224

>>1823123
I looked on the pages both for Mussolini and the RSI and can't find any mention of such a thing.

>>1823218
>Luxemburg
>bolshevist

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>>1823224
Communism will cuck you out of having a life at all, so I think I'll pass.

>>1823224
>Capitalism is cucking you out of a fulfilling life

youre a inept loser who wants a daddy government to come in and take care of you. You are literally the cuck in this situation.

youre so dumb you cant even come up with an original insult and have to steal and misuse ones from /pol/

>>1823204

>turn germany into a communist shit hole

>better place

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>>1823258

>>1823287

250 years later, and we're still here while communism was born around the time of our civil war and died around the release first Home Alone movie

kill yourself you tankey LARPer

>>1823287
This is probably the most retarded image I've ever seen on /his/

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>>1823287
ftfy

>>1823239
It might have been taken down. I remember some of his wiki pages getting edited to take away anything that would make him seem like a decent person.

The book "Mussolini: The Last 600 Days of Il Duce" has all the information I'm referencing if you're really willing to slog through it. The information I'm talking about should be near the end.

Only information I can see on wikipedia anymore is:
"After yielding to pressures from Hitler and the remaining loyal fascists who formed the government of the Republic of Salò, Mussolini helped orchestrate a series of executions of some of the fascist leaders who had betrayed him at the last meeting of the Fascist Grand Council"
A few years ago (it's been a while since I was into that period) it would have specifically said that those pressures where threats from Hitler that he would destroy 3 major Italian cities if Mussolini didn't comply to his orders (can't remember the specific cities), but that's been removed since then. My bad, I'd forgotten what a shitty source Wikipedia is.

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>>1823297
800 years later, and we're still here, while democracy was born and died before the coming of our Lord and Savior

kill yourself you republican LARPer

>>1823320
>"lol you retard, Wikipedia isn't biased"
>actually what you're saying isn't supported by wikipedia
>"Wikipedia is biased, they removed what I said!"

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>>1822997
Joseph II. If he succeeded, the Kingdom of Austria wouldn't have been the shithole it has consistently proven itself to be after his death. He died hated, and was forced to abolish almost all of his reforms.

Also: Mussolini, Mosley, Alexander II, Franz Ferdinand,

>>1823335
I never said that. I said asking for a source that can be found with a google search is just lazy.
Then I appologized when it was pointed out that wikipedia doesn't specifically mention the incident, like it used to.
And wikipedia still references it, it's just purposely vague.
Moron.
But please, read the book I cited instead of acting like your ignorance of history somehow wins you "points" in this "debate".

>>1823287
>The Roman Empire actually lasted a few centuries and advanced civilization for the whole western world
>Napoleon's empire was defeated, but his legal reforms and code had major influence for the future
>The Communist Empire lasted less than a century and was impoverished and backward, being propped up by the capitalists they hated (despite Russia being a major grain exporter both before and after communist times), and their ideology was rightly sent to the dustbin of history

>>1823351
You forgot the part where they built nukes and were a super power

>>1823351
>implying the ussr was communist

>>1823351
>the roman empire
>empire

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>>1823352
Rome and France were "super powers" too. And as for nukes (as if WMDs are the measure of civilization), they stole tech from America.

>>1823371
And if you compare where Russia was in WWI compared to where America was in WWI they did a pretty decent job of empire building.

>>1823375
Well maybe if dirty, no good Red bandits didn't keep killing tsars, bombing the Duma and starting backstab civil wars every time Russia got in a conflict, they would have made more progress.
Also once again: Russia was the biggest grain exporter during Tsarist era.

>>1823371
Thanks jews.

>>1823390
>weak tsar unable to control his own country would have miraculously done all these things

>>1823371
>Rome and France were "super powers" too.
Under Emperors, yeah.

>>1823050
I doubt it. We see Caesar as good because he was a large portion of the civilisation that had an immeasurable effect on the development of our societies. Mussolini didn't leave behind a long term legacy.

>>1823258
I wish Bernie was a communist

Jesus Christ

>>1823275
Socialism isn't "the government doing stuff." Socialism is worker control of industry.

Instead of mines and factories being owned by an individual capitalist or group of shareholders, the workers co-own these means of production. This causes wages to rise, as the rentier class no longer skims their wages to make a profit.

>>1823330

>monarchy

>still around

lol no. The only place it still exist is subhuman shitholes like saudi arabia

>>1823275
You're thinking of Scandinavian social democracy, which isn't socialism no matter what Bernie says

>>1824233
I can understand politically ignorant people thinking social democracy is socialism because it's a meme in the US, but how can some who had actual experience in far-left politics call himself a socialist when his beliefs have nothing to do with socialism?

>>1824334
Bernie might personally be a socialist, but his policies are not socialism.

Socialism is when industry is collectively held by the workers, instead of individual members or groups of the ruling class.

Across the Cold War, socialist parties in Europe began advocating for a "more ethical capitalism" to prevent themselves from being made illegal. This philosophy, now called social democracy, allows capitalists to exploit workers but uses statistics tools like heavy taxation and regulations to improve the lives of these workers.

Bernie Sanders follows this trend.

>>1824334
Bernie has wanted to be a special snowflake his entire career. Vermont, along with NYC and the Northwest, are the only places in the US where actual socialists and communists are a significant voting block.

Calling yourself a socialist while advocating social democracy is a good way to gain the support of all types of left-wing voters.

>>1823224
I am not a fan of capitalism but no it is not you decrepit rabble. Read some Jünger. If you require a utopia in order to eke out a fulfilling life you ought to be flayed.

>>1823068
You deserve it.

>>1823066
edgy

>>1823055
The right is so autistic this way.

It's a goddamn corpse. Desecration is somewhat disrespectful but not significant in the way that a killing is.

You see this all the time when ruthless Muslim forces are considered more evil than equally ruthless Russian or Western forces, not because they kill more people but because they kill people in a more superficially brutal way.

>>1824212
The Kingdom of France had been around for 800 years when the revolution happened, historical illiterate.

>>1822997
>made the trains run on time
>tried to unite the Italian people under one flag
>not racist or anti-Semitic
>artistically and aesthetically avant-garde instead of nuclassical minimalist wankery
>was cool with Britain and France after Locarno
>a legislative chamber representing different trades/industry to balance the geographically/popularly-elected one

Why do Germans have to ruin everything?

>>1823275
>capitalism allows losers to succeed based just on the money and influence they inherited from daddy
>capitalism has the government step in to protect people's property they didn't earn and can't physically defend or even use

>>1826319
>capitalism allows losers to succeed based just on the money and influence they inherited from daddy
This desu. Capitalism would mostly be manageable if there were no such thing as inheritance since everyone dies eventually and it would be hard for things to spiral out of control.

>>1826307
I don't think the Germans have anything to do with your sex life anon, we're way past Godwin's law here.

>>1826276
Yet every monarchy today is either entirely symbolic or a backwards shithole.

There are absolutely no benefits to a monarchy.

>>1823258
Bernie Sanders isn't even communist. This artist is retarded.

>>1826334
Yes, I'm sure we'll be saying that several hundred years in the future after the revolution about this era too.

alaxander the greats son

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>>1822997
Honestly? This guy. Debate me all you want. It's true.

Father killed, grows intense hatred for the powers that be that killed him for disent, grows to be the most powerful populist writer of Russia and East Europe, writing endless correspondence, and avenges the death of his father with the October Revolution. He believed what he did was right, just as the American Revolution gave "freedom" to all, so to was the USSR, which splintered. He died witnessing the unfortunate path his dreams have may have been for nothing for a kind of state he didn't want from the beginning, and had to compromise.

Too bad it'll be a cold day in hell before we get that biopic.

>>1826334

The Thai monarchy has kept the country stable through a shitload of military coups

>>1822997
Why the fuck do so many of you schmucks think this dude is so great when he was a fascist who allied himself with Hitler.

Sure, at one point he was more inclined with he allies, but then he saw all the shit Hitler was doing and jumped on the Axis train.

At the end of the day he was an asshole who joined up with Hitler

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>>1822997
This dude was a fucking legend, Hitler was so threatened by him that he threatened his entire family with murder if he didn't kill himself.

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>>1826380
One retarded leader and they're fucked. Have you seen the new king?

A functioning government shouldn't need to rely on a monarch for citizens to stay loyal. This just shows a lack of any proper civic identity.

>>1826368
I wouldn't call Lenin tragic, because he actually did great things and left an irrevocable mark on history.

>>1826385
He's just an idol for edgy teenage rightists who still think nations are real but aren't edgy enough to support Hitler.

>>1826326
A father cares for his son, it is his flesh, why shouldn't his wages go to him?

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>>1826385
>he was a fascist
And that's bad because...?
>who allied himself with Hitler
Only after all other possibilities were exhausted and GB decided to be a bunch of Kraut-loving cucks.
>saw what Hitler was doing and jumped on the Axis train
As I said, all attempts of cooperating with GB and France in maintaining Versailles and checking Germany have failed. He was convinced Germany would manage to win (owing in no small part to the reluctance of GB and Frace to intervene in pretty much anything Germany did), and, in that future, the only way for Italy to survive would be cooperation. He hated Hitler (even more after Dollfuss's assassination) and considered him dangerous.
>In the end he was just some asshole who allied with Hitler
In private life, he was an asshole. But his life and work are supremely interesting, and he sincerely tried to improve Italy (see his infrastructure projects, attempts to root out the mafia etc.). Also, his ideology is top-tier.

>>1826464
That's the point. Capitalism is incompatible with human nature if you think fairness should be on the level of the individual and not the level of the estate. What you've described is really just father and son being members of a larger estate.

>>1826451
You are posting about fascism. The denial of the Nation in favour of the State is ine of the core concepts. Please, inform yourself before posting. I suggest Alfredo Rocco's "the Political Doctrine if Fascism" as a great summarry of the history and ideology of the movement.

>>1823352
>Can't even go 100 years before the contradictions of communism cause its collapse
>superpower

>>1826502
You mean the contradictions of any revolutionary government in establishing something that isn't a dictatorship.

>>1826396
well to be fair he was apart of a coup that tried to kill hitler so hitler had every right to be threatened by him

>>1826274
>the right
(You)

>>1826451
>rightists
(You)

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>>1822997

>Bix Beiderbecke
>Musical Prodigy
>Plays Piano at the age of three
>Receives a Jazz CD from his brother who is serving in Europe (WW1)
>Becomes obsessed with Jazz music
>Idolizes Louis Armstrong
>Continue playing and learning music throughout school career
>Eventually decides to pursue music as a career
>Works his way up through the bands,
>Eventually arrives at the Whiteman band, the most highly paid jazz band in the country
>Bix starts sending Jazz records home to prove he's "Made It" and he's a successful jazz musician
>Louis Armstrong finally sees him play, instantly recognizes his talent.
>Louis meets with him later that week
>They play together behind closed doors
>Bix asks to join Armstrong's band
>But it is the 1920's and so a white musician cannot play with a black musician in public
>Bix never sees Armstrong again
>Disillusioned, Bix goes home to see his parents
>He finds they never actually listened to a single record that he sent home, they were all still in their sealed packages
>Bix falls into depression and alcoholism from never being able to play with his childhood idol
>Bix Dies at the age of 31
>Posthumously recognized as one of the most influential jazz musicians despite his short career
>But he was held back from his true potential during his life

It's a sad story.

>>1827389
>>1827398
>autism

>>1823258
bernie is considered center-right by the standards of most european countries. songle payer healthcare isn't gonna send anyone to a gulag

>>1826368
He also ordered the deaths of many innocent people, pinko>>1826368

>>1822997

How is this clown tragic?

>>1826474

Just because he was interesting doesnt make him sympathetic, he was still a fascist asshole who ran a political party that supressed freedom and rights. He was backed by the italian military, not the people. his own blackshirts would scare dissenters into silence with violence. They were a party of simple minded brutes, not intellectuals.

Fascism is bad because anyone who believes in it is clearly not very smart.

>>1827822
Cry me a river, faggot

>>1827822
>He was backed by the italian military
except he wasn't. He didn't enact a military coup.

>>1827802
And? So has literally every other historical figure you pussy footing piece of shit

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>>1822997
Yep, that's me, François. You now wonder how I got there, right?
>1358
>Go to visit cousin Jean in the countryside
>Meet four angry plebs who are tired to be farm slaves
>Get chopped to death

>>1827822
>fascist asshole
Again, you having a hate-boner against fascism doesn't mean everyone hates it.
>repressed freedom and rights
From a liberal perspective, yes. From a fascist conception of libertied and rights, no.
>Fascism is bad because anyone who believes in it is clearly not very smart.
There were plenty of fascist intellectuals, such as Gentile and Marinetti. But this was just bait-tier.

>>1827822
>>1828510
Also,
>scared dissenters into submission
Not everyone has a problem with this. You're operating from a liberal view of the State one again.
>simple-minded brutes
A very large part of the PNF supporters were students and artists (futurists). Intellectuals. Also, see previous answer.

>>1823050
Mussolini botched it. If he didn't ally with Hitler, didn't support Franco (and ideally supported the Republic) and didn't have the gas war in Abbysinia, he would've be considered one of the greatest statesmen.

>>1823007
Only for the cryhards. He had it coming.

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>>1826380
>implying King Sex Toy did anything to prevent the constant coups

>>1827802
George Washington killed innocent people too bucko

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>>1828767

>George Washington killed innocent people

King George III plz leave

>>1828510

I'm having a hate boner against fascism because it represses people. How is that a good idea? It's not. No progress has ever come from prohibiting dialogue between differing ideas. Yes, it's from a liberal perspective. People on this board seen to forget that Ideology can be a worthy cause in itself, and an ideology that suppresses freedom of expression and ideas is clearly not a worthy cause for a variety of reasons. Even Oswald Mosley admitted that fascism was a mistake.

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screw all the treasonous jews posted in here

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>>1829530
>screw all the treasonous jews
>(((sternberg)))

>>1823204
>tfw I actually thought Luxembourg was named after Rosa Luxemburg

>>1824746
Why so mean, senpai? Were you having a bad day?

>>1823066
Commies need to go and stay go

>>1823126
Russians are fucking chimps, it's shameful to me that they're what people think of when I tell them I'm a slav.

>>1827714
This is outright wrong

He's considered left wing, Europeans just happen to generally agree with universal healthcare and free schooling.

>>1827822
Which is why the fascists had in their ranks incredibly intelligent and accomplished people...

Face it buddy, fascism celebrates the best in humanity, and sometimes the masses are the best of humanity and need some strong leadership.

>>1830117

Edgy high schooler coming through

>>1830134
Most edgy high schoolers are Marxists.

>>1830141

New to /his/ I presume?

>>1822997
Pericles. He would have won the war and made the Athenian empire last a lot longer than forty years

>>1827376
>he was apart of a coup that tried to kill hitler
No he wasn't. They asked him to be a part of it but he said no

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>>1823224
>Half some self-respect

>to accept communism, divide your self-respect in 2

>>1823287
>napoleon before the American Revolution

>>1830744
>American """""""""""""Revolution"""""""""""""

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>>1827822
Anti-fascists killed more people in a few years than fascists killed in two decades.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangolo_della_morte_(Emilia)

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>>1822997
Why are we stopping? Do what to Yang Gui Fei?

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>Top 10 anime deaths
>*thumbnail*

>>1830820
Kek
Why did Mosley always take so many meme photos? Did he do all that shit on purpose.

>>1826368
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka
Depending on Cheka committees in various cities, the methods included:[2] being skinned alive, scalped, "crowned" with barbed wire, impaled, crucified, hanged, stoned to death, tied to planks and pushed slowly into furnaces or tanks of boiling water,[2] or rolled around naked in internally nail-studded barrels. Chekists reportedly poured water on naked prisoners in the winter-bound streets until they became living ice statues. Others reportedly beheaded their victims by twisting their necks until their heads could be torn off. The Chinese Cheka detachments stationed in Kiev reportedly would attach an iron tube to the torso of a bound victim and insert a rat in the tube closed off with wire netting, while the tube was held over a flame until the rat began gnawing through the victim's guts in an effort to escape.[2] Anton Denikin's investigation discovered corpses whose lungs, throats, and mouths had been packed with earth.[2][34]

fuck lenin

>>1823287
Napoleon...then the US. I Think you got that one backwards.

>>1830797
Literally did nothing wrong.

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I've always felt sorry for Nicky, while incompetent, he just wanted to be a family man.

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>>1827822

>freedom and rights

Mein Gott.

>>1830784
>https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangolo_della_morte_(Emilia)

>commies
>fascists
>different from each other

Same shit different name

>>1831773

Ow that edge when is recess over for you guys

>>1831787

Please try to convince me why I should give a shit about arbitrary/ad hoc concepts like those aforementioned.

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>>1822997

>>1831797

Because you're over 18 years of age I hope

Holy shit when did /his/ get infested with underage edgelords?

>>1830694
Seconding this.

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he tried so hard ;_;

>>1828978
>No progress has ever come from prohibiting dialogue between differing ideas.

Are you fucking kidding me? Tons of progress has. Just imagine if the USA/FBI wasn't so hard-handed on Communists and allowed a revolution to take place. Would have been a massive leap backwards.

>>1834178
rip in peace

>>1834178
>he tried so hard ;_;

Well India got independence in the end. Too bad that Bastard Nehru took the PM position instead of Patel who Congress actually wanted. Gandhi fucked up.