Why is sex considered decadence by the puritans? I can understand

>>1821711
Sex is animal behavior.

>>1821718
Humans are Archaea then I suppose? Or perhaps microsporidia? Are we not animals circa 2016?

>>1821711
I can explain it to you, but it might take a while.
It has to do with the very basis of our civilization.
Man at some point in the chalcolithic age or before that made up the concept of property. They started calling a house, tools, servants, lands, crops, animals and a ton of other things their own. They defended their property with fists, laws, and wars. One central concept that stems from this time is marriage - the idea that a woman is bound to a husband and can only have children with him. I believe the first forms of this were polygamy with one man and a bunch of women, which turned into the monogamy that we know today over millenia.

>>1821752
You can still sex a lot with one woman

>>1821739

If we're talking about religious puritans, the "we're just hairless monkeys ;^)" isn't a compelling argument to them. It's a common belief that humans are unique relative to animals.

No man wants a wife that has been fucked by other men. We live in a world and culture that says it's alright to marry a non-virgin and that's ok, but men who claim they don't care are liars.

>>1821756
Yes but the effect wears off after a few years, especially after the third brat is squeezed out.

>>1821711
>but sex is a wonderful thing that

bingo, puritans hate pleasure. Especially pleasure of flesh.

>>1821752
The story that is being told to us - that is, the spoken and unspoken rules that we follow - are designed to keep up one and the same order in our society. There is a number of things that can disturb this. External aggressors are one thing. That's why were told that we need to serve in the army. Poverty and stagnation is another thing. That's why laziness is considered a vice. Psychedelics are important to keep under control, because their use may lead to independent thought and wild spirituality, which can bring down the well-established order.
Sex is prohibited because it is deeply connected to many instinctive and intuitive functions of a human being. The story told is that you grow up, marry one person and have kids with that person, keep working a few years and your purpose is fulfilled. But this is only true for a tiny percentage of humans in the world. Sex allows you to connect spiritually with people around you, a spirituality which has nothing to do with organized religion. It also allows you to explore your own needs, powers, capabilites and intuition. Those are all things that are suppressed by the puritan conservative ideology because they can be detrimental to the social order perceived as being given by the grace of god.

It's a form of social control. Sex is such a fundamental human function, that makes it an excellent tool for controlling people. Making you ashamed of your most primal instinct creates a double bind. You cant obey your desires and your society at the same time, and this dissonance makes the subject easy to manipulate. You're conditioned not to trust your direct experience of reality and will therefore much more easily accept any model of reality you're given.

>>1821718
So is eating, breathing, sleeping, shitting, etc. Do you have a point? No. No you don't

>>1821739
We are different from the beasts on a fundamental level, in every way we are their betters.
>>1821718
Not the reason.
>>1821711
Sex is too easily misused, aggression is normal and healthy yet to use it unjustly is taboo and just flat out wrong for obvious reasons to very many people.

>>1821752
[citation needed]

>>1821711

Same reason dance and music was.

Pleasure, to many Christian sects, is evil.

File: IMG_0197.png (108KB, 400x381px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 400x381px

>>1821711
The puritans loved sex

A wife could sue her husband and vice versa for sexual neglect

God forbid it remain within the confines of loving holy matrimony, right guise?

>>1821787

An incredibly myopic answer from a simple mind

>>1821919
>in every way we are their betters

Citation needed. Who determines what's better?

>>1821802
>The story told is that you grow up, marry one person and have kids with that person, keep working a few years and your purpose is fulfilled. But this is only true for a tiny percentage of humans in the world.

Can you provide a citation for this? I personally would prefer having one partner my whole life.

File: Thomas_Robert_Malthus_Wellcome_L0069037_-crop.jpg (37KB, 490x599px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 490x599px

>>1821711
The economist Thomas Malthus. Pic related.

He concluded

1. There are finite resources (like food)
2. But people will multiply well past the sustainability level of those resources
3. Only the elites seem to have fewer children

Therefore:
Some must be made to starve so that others can eat and we don't all starve.

>>1821787

Pretty much this.

I was raised in a strict Christfag home.
And Im a masochist.

Especially for little things.
Like I drink my cofee black, drink whiskey neat and prefer shit cigarettes. My little pleasures/vices have to hurt or I feel guilty.

People think Im trying to act like a tough guy and break my balls for it.
but in trouth if Im going to enjoy pleasure pain has to be coupled with it or I feel guilty.

And don't get me started on my sexual fantasies.

cont..

Charles Dickens "A Christmas Carol" is a direct rebuttal to this kind of thinking as anti-christian. 'Let them die! They will help decrease the surplus population.' is a direct jab at Malthusian thinking.

What Malthus missed was not the moral horror of the above argument but,

1. Latex contraception is cheap and effective and unavailable until the 20th century.

2. Modern Experience has demonstrated both in India and around the globe that increases in wealth distribution pretty well solve the Malthusian crisis by making children more valuable and thus more expensive.

If you were to watch the documentary "Harvest of Shame" there is a scene where a farm laborer is working for $0.42 a day and food for her family costs $1.36 a day. Her solution to this problem, though she would lack the education to elaborate is to have more children working with her on the owner's farm for the same rate of pay. A much larger family allows for functionally, 'time-sharing' the food and increasing the likelyhood that at least some will eat and more importantly not get sick and be unable to work; or worse die.

As Dr. Shashi Tharoor, MP from India has indicated, 'as we increase the per-capita income for the poorest and especially the rural poor this problem disappears. Once having another unhealthy or at least uncared for child is no longer the difference of survival you begin to see much more parental investment. Once they can afford a doctor, they can get access to an education and the non-work time this necessitates, which will allow their children to in turn advance up the social ladder, be more productive in a better job, earn more money, children increasingly look like a very big investment or expense with a long term payout that must be carefully managed and cared for.'

I will not insinuate the consequences for the war industry's profit margins and its need for disposable bodies of uneducated displaced youth as a factor though this too may be contributory.

Sex itself wasn't considered decadent by the puritans. Not even sex out of marriage (which was a sin but not considered especially decadent). Some forms of sex were considered decadent such as homosexuality and polygamy.

>>1822053
>personally would prefer having one partner my whole life.
Real Question: What is the longest that you've ever had one partner for?

>>1821752
> I believe the first forms of this were polygamy with one man and a bunch of women, which turned into the monogamy that we know today over millenia.

Current consensus is that monogamy came first. Nearly all current hunter-gatherer societies are predominantly monogamous and DNA comparisons of prehistoric remains suggest it was also true for past hunter-gatherers.

>>1822125
I am a virgin so I have never had sex, I am also an agnostic.

I find the idea of an unbreakable vow of trust between two individuals to refrain from sex truly ambitious, noble, and pure in todays over-sexualized society. Also I'm at college and suppose I could be bitter i'm not having any, but I present it as the first thing.

The answer for this is in Classical Philosophy.

Ethics was supposedly a guide to life. How can you be the most accomplished, happiest people you can be? This is different than what people think nowadays about ethics, where it is mostly about "other people".

Anyway, being promiscuous has some bad side effects for you. For example, if you have too much sex you end up getting addicted to it. Think of those people who complain about how they didn't have sex for a month.

>>1821711
I dont understand how you can understand the concept that drugs and lazyness are decadent but not excessive sex

Anything that is taken in excess is decadent whether you're having sex for 5 hours in a day or losing 5 hours by being lazy the resulting unproductive hours are the exact same.

Having sex is necessery for mankind and a minimum of relaxing is required for anyone's mental health. Both are necessary but if you have any of those in excess the extra time applied is useless.

>>1821711
Sex isn't considered decadent, as seen with the family sizes of the Puritans. Sex was considered a holy union between man and wife which was necessary for the foundation of a healthy nuclear family.
Promiscuous sex was considered evil since it placed pleasure over the holiness and function of sex.

>>1821711
In my observation of history, most new Christian sects believe that the older sects are more decadent in terms of sexuality. This is especially evident with the Lutherans against the Roman Catholics. Martin Luther perceived the Apostolic Church as being a whore and that Rome a congregation of whores.

Of course, this does have its roots in theology - consider, for example, the teachings of Paul the Apostle.

>>1822094
Was he the fellow who suggested that there'd be world-wide starvation if the population reached 1 billion?

>>1822240
Speaking out of your ass, Luther despised the celibacy of the priesthood as pointless and married himself, it was one of his criticisms of Catholicism. L I T E R A L L Y the opposite of what you stated.

>>1822253
He condemned the church officials in Rome for having too much sex. Why are you baiting me?

>>1822261
There is a big difference between condemning select upper level clergy and the entire church and it's dogma.

>>1821860
STDs are a conspiracy to control you.
/s
take your tinfoil hat off bro

They didn't believe in birth control, which was murder in their eyes, and believed The Apocalypse would come in thier lifetime, so it would be wrong to bring a child into a dying world, since sex is primarily how you make children. Remember, condoms were primitive and not widely available and pills and shit didn't exist yet.

>>1821919
You can see at night better than an owl?
You can navigate in darkness better than a bat?
You can see from great height better than a hawk?
You can run faster than a cheetah?
You have more stamina than a horse?
You can swim faster than a shark?
You're physically stronger than a gorilla?
You can hold your breath longer than a dolphin?
You can get to your rooftop faster than a squirrel?
You can fly better than a wren for the same price?

You lie better than a beast. That's about it.

>>1821765
Or not 12 year old virgins

>>1822365
The fact that you, a human, are posting on this website and is the only species on this planet that can do so is proof of man's superiority.

>>1822147
Thank you for clarifying your situation.

Your kind is certainly anachronistic in this day and age, but it is possible you will find someone equally inexperienced to eventually fuck.

Once you fuck, you may or may not find that the basis of the relationship was sexual attraction. After this attraction dissipates (generally within the first year or so, almost assuredly after the first child is born), you may or may not find that there are other attributes of your partner that will keep you interested.

Should you find that women are, in fact, not these caring, sympathetic vessels for your earthly desire and infinitely patient and interested in whatever it is that you like, you may encounter deep, existential questions about what you were thinking, and why people stay intertwined with someone who is actually not very interesting, helpful, or even sexually gratifying.

Or not. Good luck and happy hunting.

>>1822191
>having sex for 5 hours in a day or losing 5 hours by being lazy the resulting unproductive hours are the exact same.

Wrong. Having sex for 5 hours is WAYYYYYYY better.

True story.

>>1821765
Virgins are absolute shit in bed.

>>1822392

I'm not him.

>Once you fuck, you may or may not find that the basis of the relationship was sexual attraction. After this attraction dissipates (generally within the first year or so, almost assuredly after the first child is born), you may or may not find that there are other attributes of your partner that will keep you interested.


That's why you should not choose your marriage partner based on sexual attraction and why you should not value sexual gratification that much. And find someone that is not hedonistic, as well.

>>1822136
Then, sir, would you mind explaining why your penis is shaped in such a way so as to scrape rival semen out of a mate's vagina?

>>1821711

>Why is sex considered decadence by the puritans?

It wasn't. They simply believed that sex should happen within the confines of marriage. So you could fuck a girl 5 times a day so long as you were married and Christian it was 100% okay. In fact, it was encouraged, because you were doing God's work to expand Christendom by helping to create the next generation.

>>1822483
What about fucking your preggo wife?

File: Alien_Laugh.png (178KB, 475x383px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 475x383px

>>1821919
>travel to some planet for ecological research to inspect some pretty resilient animal life forms that have been living in its oceans for a shit load of time
>finish work for the week and, on a whim, decide to check out the ruins of some short lived pre Type 1 civilization that was apparently here a little while ago.
>place is a wreck, but I find one of their computers that's not in too bad of shape
>take it back, fix it, and boot it up cause I'm bored
>start looking through folders to see if I can find anything remotely interesting
>find a folder labelled "TRUTHS"
>open it up and find a screencap of a post saying: "We are different from the beasts on a fundamental level, in every way we are their betters."
>mfw

Most Puritans and almost everybody else in the fucking world all fucking slept in the same bed in a one room home. Of course they all grew up watching their dad fuck their mom from the time they were babies. They knew what fucking was and thought it was pretty normal.

>>1822308
>20 year old study

>>1821787
The word is carnality, anon.

>>1821711
Sex with excessive frequency or multiple partners is degenerate

>>1822509

>What about fucking your preggo wife?

Nobody would know except her and God, so who cares?

>>1822136
>Current consensus is that monogamy came first. Nearly all current hunter-gatherer societies are predominantly monogamous and DNA comparisons of prehistoric remains suggest it was also true for past hunter-gatherers.
BS

>>1822719
Prove it. Numerous animals have lifelong monogamous relationships, usually mammals or fowl with long lifespans.
Explain how for humans monogamy wouldn't be the default.

>>1822735
>Prove it.
No. You prove it. You're the one citing current consensus. Give us some books or articles on it.

>>1822735
You're the one who made the claim. You provide the citation.

Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

>>1822719
Name another primate that is actually monogamous, (not that Gibbons "socially" monogamous bullshit) and I'll break up with one of my three girlfriends right this moment.

>>1822460
This only occurs with circumcised penises. In other words, its not true, unless you are some sort of extreme creationist in that man was born with cut off foreskin.

File: haber.jpg (12KB, 162x227px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 162x227px

>>1822094

Suck on my nitrogen, you Anglican hack.

>>1822035

Admittedly, the pleasures of a wordly life do make it more difficult to focus on the blessings of the next.

>>1821916
Not that guy but the point is clear. You kinda die of you don't do that shit and you kinda go extinct if you don't have sex, so don't be a dense litlle shit, k?

>>1821802
>Getting fucked by strangers is EMPOWERING, in a SPIRITUAL kind of way

Lol

File: sour-grapes-make-the-best-whine_zps9702f1dc.jpg (110KB, 484x324px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 484x324px

>>1821711
Two words: Sour Grapes.

>Sex is icky.

File: 2016-new-font-b-design-b-font-Male-silk-satin-long-sleeve-kimono-sleepwear-100-pure.jpg (66KB, 430x430px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 430x430px

The best solution I've ever come up with, using no citations or real historical events or anything but my own head, is that otherwise life would be too shitty to justify living.

Think about how many friends you have. I mean real friends. As in, friends who you can genuinely say that you love, care about, and would want to spend the rest of your life with them. What's your number? Probably zero, right? And even in superficial friendships, its usually a few inferior people flocking around someone more interesting/powerful/charismatic/whatever, and that person being the glue that keeps the "group" together.

Now imagine sex having the same dynamics as friendship. Throw in the extra element of women generally being bitches that don't give a fuck about the bottom 60% of men, and for most people, it would become something equally meaningless. Relationships, and more specifically, the general denial of regular sex outside of them, forces people to develop deep meaningful connections with people they otherwise probably wouldn't even bother talking to (ie, most men and women, including the ones getting married).

What would you rather live in? A world where you're basically guaranteed to spend the rest of your life in existential loneliness never being able to connect with another human being, or one where the threat of a sexless existence forces you to ignore that fact and go through the motions regardless?

>>1822773
Look at history- the rise in sexual promiscuity has led to the rise in divorce and subsequently mental illness and depression.
The collapse of the nuclear family in the west has coincided with the rise in depression, crime, etc.

Your asking for me to reach back into prehistory for evidence when the evidence is right within the last 50 years.

>>1822919
>This only occurs with circumcised penises
No it fucking doesn't, unless you think circumcision means cutting the glans off. The glans is shaped the way it is in order to scoop out rival semen.The refractory period literally exists for the purpose of stopping a man from scraping out his own semen after he cums.

>>1822049
The one who's able to put the animals in cages, use them for amusement, and throw them in space for fun.

>>1821802

Hedonistic bullshit

Sex is just a base urge like hunger. There's nothing spiritual about, it's value exists only in your mind. That being said it's an addictive animalistic urge like violence. Humans are nothing more than animals who had the misfortune of becoming self-aware and the natural state of man is savagery, which is something all the great ancient philosophers and educators realized. Man is a beast who must tame himself, that's why institutions arose to curb the inherently destructive instincts of humans and one of them being the taboo against promiscuity. People realized very early on how rampant unbound sexuality destroys societies, there's a reason why many religions discouraged such things.

File: 130842303938.jpg (23KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 250x250px

>>1823162

>repeating pseudo-scientifc bullshit from a disgraced academian known for manipulating his data to accommodate his cuckolding fetish

>>1823004
>Look at history- the rise in sexual promiscuity has led to the rise in divorce and subsequently mental illness and depression.
[CITATION NEEDED]

Even blaming increased divorces on promiscuity is sketchy since tolerance to promiscuity and divorce go hand in hand. Blaming increased mental illness and depression on it when there's a ridiculous number of much more important factors causing it is just absurd.
>The collapse of the nuclear family in the west has coincided with the rise in depression, crime, etc.
The nuclear family is a retarded meme that hasn't existed for the vast majority of western civilization and crime keeps going lower and lower as time progresses.

>>1823366
If sex is so destructive than why are bonobos, one of humanity's closest relatives, so peaceful compared to other primates when they just constantly fuck each other? They also don't have the nasty habit of infanticide like other, more sexually-exclusive primates because the children are raised communally and the males have no idea which ones are theirs and which ones aren't.

>>1821765
This.

>>1821765
I honestly couldn't fucking care. I'm a fucking virgin NEET who has never held hands with a girl, and while I can understand wanting a girl with a similar experience-level as yours, I wouldn't be grossed out or bothered that some girl I was fucking also fucked others before me if I knew she was clean. To have that kind of opinion has to derive from thinking sex is on some level impure, particularly for a women. Calling people who disagree with you liars is intellectually dishonest.

File: 1458697936221.png (731KB, 742x428px) Image search: [Google]

731KB, 742x428px

>>1823423
>she thinks that the increase mental illness isn't directly linked to childhood depression and emotional trauma post-divorce
>she is unwilling to admit infidelity is the number one reason for divorce
>she calls the nuclear family a meme
>she doesn't realize the decrease in crime she refers to is a result of the emasculation of males
ask me how I know you're a girl.

>>1822928

You're not making any sense.

All the things like eating, breathing, sleeping, shitting are necessary for short-term survival and feel rewarding to do.

Sex is necessary for long-term survival of our kind, it's also feels rewarding to do. It is also strong bonding experience you can have with another person and promotes social cohesion.


Any belief system that shuns sex has an underlying death oriented ideology.

>>1822977

I know it sounds crazy but there are just as many females with standards as low as yours as there are males. Everyone wants to fuck someone that's hot, but they probably won't unless they are attractive as well, so they will settle for what they can get which is the average guy/girl like you, I'm assuming. Ever heard of a bell curve?

You have this all encompassing idea about females being bitchy and otherwise sexless, only opening their legs for the creme de la creme. That just isn't true. For every 8-9-10/10 snobish bitch like you describe there are a hundred 4-5-6/10 girls that will shag you quite right. And if you are just an average guy yourself why aren't you perfectly happy with that unless you are a hypocrite of course?

>>1823503
>>she thinks that the increase mental illness isn't directly linked to childhood depression and emotional trauma post-divorce
Parents separating is traumatic, there's no denying that, but it's unfounded to say it's the main or even a major cause of mental illness.
>>she is unwilling to admit infidelity is the number one reason for divorce
Or that people just don't believe in marriage anymore or make shitty choices in their spouse, for whatever reason.
>>she calls the nuclear family a meme
Because it is. For most of human history and for nearly all modern non-western societies the nuclear family isn't a thing. It's pretty silly to me to supposedly be "pro-family" yet support an intentionally and deliberating small and isolated style of family.
>>she doesn't realize the decrease in crime she refers to is a result of the emasculation of males
That's not what you said to begin with. Also, nice conjecture.
>ask me how I know you're a girl.
Because I disagree with you? :^)

Now you've gone and reminded me of my autogynophilia fetish.

>>1823535
>autogynophilia fetish


Patrician

>>1823550
It really is. Too bad about those guys who take it too far and actually cut off their dicks.

>>1823376
>the guy who invented the mirror test
>disgraced academian
Back to your puritan safe space nigger

>>1821860
Underated post

>>1822116
Except if it was the woman doing it.

File: download (2).png (4KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 225x225px

>>1822097
You're basically par for the course in Ireland

File: 1373423599337.jpg (17KB, 313x286px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 313x286px

>>1822460
>sir
what the fuck is wrong with you

>>1822097
Shit, man. That's really fucked up.

>>1822147
>in todays over-sexualized society.
What makes people say this? Just out of curiosity?

I've no problem with the rest of your post, it's naive and idealistic but there's a certain value in that.

>>1823644
this

FUCK religioin..

>>1821756
Which is why having lots of sex with your wife isn't discouraged by any christian denomination .

>>1821711
Because they understood on some level that sexual restraint is needed to maintain civilization.

>>1823648
I bet you think that you are better than an animal, especially when you are bored

>>1822136
Citation needed

>>1823584

>even a broken clock is right once day

Read up on Gallup, dumbass. He's a fucking hack and nobody takes his work seriously. That fact that you bring his "research" to the discussion means that you either have a cuckolding fetish or that you've been victim to SJW propaganda.

>>1823427

Because they're bonobos and not homo sapiens.

>>1822097
Me too man. It's called 'Catholic guilt'.

>>1823646
>What makes people say this? Just out of curiosity?
Another anon here.
It would be difficult to find evidence for it. I feel it is, but I have no experience how it used to be in the past.

I would point out to the focus on sex in media, such as songs, reality tv and magazines. And the fact that being a virgin is stigmatized. Yet somehow it is also still frowned upon for a woman to have many sexual partners.

Maybe add contemporary porn to the mix too and a few celibrities famous for their sex tapes.

>>1822308
Correlation=/=causation

Of the things mentioned, only STDs have a causal relationship. Also that data looks fairly different from more recent studies I've seen.

>>1823710
>more recent studies I've seen.
feel free to share them

>>1823004
So you don't have any source at all.

You fucking retard.

> the rise in sexual promiscuity has led to the rise in divorce and subsequently mental illness and depression.
prove it

>The collapse of the nuclear family in the west has coincided with the rise in depression, crime, etc.
1. The Nuclear family still reigns supreme
2. mobile phones, political Islam and the chinese economy have also coincided with these things but funnily enough nobody blames them. "coincided" doesn't mean anything.

>>1823747
Here are the data from 2006/2008

>>1821711
the reason is AUTIZM

and puritans being germanics...

>>1823910

Honestly the Germanic laws dominate the western world, where sexuality has been so heavily demonized throughout its history that attraction to teenagers is seen as some egregious moral offense.


There was variety amongst different people. In Roman times, a woman was most valuable once she had her period and able to have her first children, a man would be most valuable when he was established with a career and status. The age gap of marriage in Greco-Roman culture was therefore quite high.

Now compare that to the Germanic people. According to Tactius' Germania, the Germanic people would stay pure untill both men and women reached around the age of 20 or 30, their strength would be combined in strong offspring.

This is nowadays still quite noticable, in countries like Italy, it is still quite common for 30 something year old guys to have 13 year old girlfriends. In Northern European countries, this is heavily frowned upon.


the sex and also age stigma is purely Germanic.

File: UShape.jpg (38KB, 549x282px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 549x282px

>>1823884
forgot bic :DD

>>1823916
yeah but today german women are the most liberated women in europe

>>1823968
liberated thanks to mehmet and da 40 fugees

>>1823702
we're sexually reproducing organisms, wherever there are people there are people fucking, it feels great, and most people born know at least the two people who fucked to make em; sex is a pretty ubiquitous part of life

it'd be pretty wild if there was a society that didn't have sex on the mind

>>1824100
That is not what I meant...

>>1823968
>german women are the most liberated women in europe

Not really. Compared to Scandinavia, France or BeNeLux Germany is pretty prudish. We're to autistic for that kind of thing.

>>1821711
Desires of the flesh.

>>1824146
nah the porn in germany shows women are as open minded as their legs can be

>>1824171
but bestiality is stronger in danemark

>>1821711

It leads to babies.

>>1822097
I have pretty much all those vices and tastes and I was raised by atheist hippie faggots that would make Ned Flanders' parents look authoritarian.

>>1822035
It maybe oversimplified answer, but it is not a wrong one.

>>1824218
Judging by the way you insult your parents, couldn´t it be due to your revolt against them?

>>1823646
Not him, but our society can indeed be called over-sexualized. Not in the sense that people has more sex or nastier than before, that's irrelevant, but in how sex is perceived. Sexuality gradually has been losing it's taboo status in the last generations. That's positive for some but hard to bear for others, because frustrations (and everyone can agree that sexuality is the source of a lot of frustrations) that would be private are public today and for some people this is uncomfortable.

Reminder that merkel has a nude photo of her. Since the 60s, the female Europeans seem quite hedonistic

>>1821711
>What's decadent about wanting lots of sex with beautiful women/children

Just think about it from an anthropological perspective for a second. Birth control was created in the 1950s. Outside of specific historic or religious doctrine about sex, the fact of the matter is that sex is inextricably linked to having children, and it is absolutely decadent to take care of a bunch of harem babies to meet your desire to have sex with multiple women. Consider the moee traditional Islamic doctrine that says polygamy is acceptable if one can realistically afford it (eg. taking care of the wife AND children you will inevitably spawn).

>>1824231
It probably is the neee to rebel (everyone has that) but please don't consider it an insult, they're flawed but I love and respect them.

File: download (2).jpg (6KB, 160x315px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 160x315px

>>1823968
>yeah but today german women are the most liberated women in europe
Liberated doesn't mean they're not prudish, it just means they're not forced to be prudish against their will.

German and Dutch women are very conservative, and Germans in general have a very conservative culture. Now; before you get all autistic on me, I don't mean conservative as in right wing, I mean they are very idealistic, fearful and resistant to change. They have irrational fears of nuclear energy for example, of the military, of technology (especially where privacy is concerned), they love absolute bullshit like homeopathy and fucking waldorf schools and all sorts of "spiritual" bullshit like that. They have little capacity to "live and let live", they will judge you for everything. Making noise, crossing the street at the wrong time, dressing a certain way, not taking off your shoes, not knowing when to say Du/Sie. They are incredibly resistant to having their minds changed on anything and once they have attained an opinion they will autistically cling to it until it leads to disaster, any dissenting opinion can be offensive to them. Any behaviour considered "strange" they find baffling and amusing. I think that besides politics, they have the most conservative mindset in Europe

I'm Irish, which is one of the most liberal countries I'm familiar with, again I don't mean in a left wing way, I mean just in a "people don't bother each other" way. Staying in Germany was really amusing to me. I'd have anarchists whining at because I went outside with no shoes on on a hot day. They love rules, or at least certain codes of behaviour.

All that said, I love Germany and the Germans. They are some of the kindest, most compassionate people you will ever meet, they are pragmatic and full of ingenuity. They are hard-working, dedicated and loyal, and while they can be slow to build friendships that friendship will last forever, so any Germanons please don't take this the wrong way.

>>1824337
Irish guy in Berlin hairy twat here. Can confirm most of the stuff said. Germans are really fucked up. Like if you talk not in hushed tones you are branded as loud. they are horribly stingy with money, you will never get a free thing from a german. i've been on dates with women and they are all huge fucking leftist feminists. its like every interaction is to test you to see how much of a beta feminist cuck you are. like seriously i was accused of mansplaining for explaining something about history. i said no i am not fucking mansplaining i am a man explaining something few people are aware of. i used to hide my power level but i think from now on I am just going to come out as a capitalist loving libertarian with right wing tendencies. also the antifa are everywhere and they are huge cucks

germans are hippies since the 60s

>>1824256
There were ancient forms of birth control. Look up Penny Royal tea for example.

We might have better methods cuttently, but the ancient world was not without options.

>>1821711
It is the embodiment of letting oneself be controlled by instinct rather than reason.

"illico post coitum cachinnus auditur diaboli" - "Directly after copulation the devil’s laughter is heard"

>>1824376
>It is the embodiment of letting oneself be controlled by instinct rather than reason.
Only to low IQ plebs.

This is the reason I hate """"puritans"""". They want to hamstring the strong because they are weak.

>>1824387
>Only to low IQ plebs.
Like yourself, I presume.

You don't copulate because it's reasonable to you, you copulate because there's a primordial imperative in your brain. It is purely subconscious and thus closer related to the realm of animal instinct than human reason.

File: 1336831200.jpg (30KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 400x300px

>>1824399
>You don't copulate because it's reasonable to you, you copulate because there's a primordial imperative in your brain. It is purely subconscious and thus closer related to the realm of animal instinct than human reason.
you're literally doing it wrong, and the fact that you can't conceive of a right way to do it is telling. You're small-minded and an intellectual coward.

>>1824399
You don't live because it's reasonable to you, you live because there's a primordial imperative in your brain. It is purely subconscious and thus closer related to the realm of animal instinct than human reason.

keel yuorselve


or alternatively, get laid :^)

File: A08B417D-3838-4F6F-BD06-D242AFA025A7-2_1024x1024.jpg (88KB, 1024x1024px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 1024x1024px

>>1824399
>You don't copulate because it's reasonable to you

>>1824423
Animals copulate perfectly fine and they're doing it without human reason. Plenty of people out there copulate on drugs and alcohol influence, plenty of people regret it shortly afterwards. The idea that sex was a thing of reason is utterly ridiculous and if you think so you must be literally out of your mind since reality disagrees with it. Insulting me is not going to change that, you're only putting your lack of intellect on display here.

>>1824430
The fact that it's a primordial instinct is not supposed to be derogatory. I've merely told you why lots of people have taken issue with it in the past - and still do. Human libido makes people do things they may regret later, it takes their minds off things they'd rather focus on, and so on.

>>1824434
That's very much right, refer to what I told >>1824423.

>>1824458
Bullshit, you're contradicting yourself in your replies.

Puritan or not, go out and fuck someone, RIGHT NOW!

>>1824467
>Bullshit, you're contradicting yourself in your replies.
Tell me where I'm contradicting myself then.

If you can't, I'll have to assume you're talking out of your ass.

>>1824458
>Animals copulate perfectly fine and they're doing it without human reason.
Reason is not a requirement for the base act. Anyone can fuck, just as anyone can sing a melody.

Reason is a requirement to use sex as a tool to explore the human psyche, much as art and music can initiate elevated mental states, so can sex. One can and should strive for excellence in sex, just as he strives for excellence in all other pursuits. People will try to ban sex, as "base", "decadent" etc just as people will try to ban music, art literature, etc. All they are doing is demonstrating their own lack of capability.

>>1822460
How do you know what my penis is shaped like?

>>1824486
While art and music may entertain, the entertainment is not necessarily an intellectual endeavour. Making art or music is an intellectual endeavour, analysing its properties and interpreting its meaning is, merely consuming it passively without reasonable thought is not.

While it might as well be possible to act towards sex in a similar manner, e.g. a hooker being particularly good at sucking people off due to having developed a good technique, the same does not apply to most people merely having sex, who aren't giving the whole thing a lot of deep thought but who are merely doing it due to a primordial imperative in their brain and the prospect of feeling good for a while. In fact, I would argue that part of what people enjoy is that there is no deeper thought required as they're doing it part for relaxation and getting their mind off things that bother them.

>>1824486
John Green detected

File: OS69299_1.jpg (138KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 900x900px

>>1821711
You don't even know what decadence is, do you? It is reveling in excess. Eating food is healthy and good. 5 banquets a day is unhealthy and wasteful. The same goes for every other good thing in life.

>>1824486
>One can and should strive for excellence in sex
the reason you orgasm has nothing to do with reasoning, rationality, strive of excellence

all animals experience orgasm, it is not unique to humans

your reason to strive to excel in sex is your craving of a primitive orgasm

that primitive orgasm is what drives you

that orgasm was created not by you, your reasoning or rationality


that orgasm was created by an ancient biological function to add funk and pleasure to animal life

plants have a reproductive drive and command but lack the orgasm that animals take for granted

>>1824497
>While it might as well be possible to act towards sex in a similar manner, e.g. a hooker being particularly good at sucking people off due to having developed a good technique, the same does not apply to most people merely having sex, who aren't giving the whole thing a lot of deep thought but who are merely doing it due to a primordial imperative in their brain and the prospect of feeling good for a while. In fact, I would argue that part of what people enjoy is that there is no deeper thought required as they're doing it part for relaxation and getting their mind off things that bother them.
These are the low IQ plebs I was referring to (half-sarcastically). There is a big difference between a post-clubbing one night stand and ritual sex in a mystery cult. Now, we don't have enough knowledge of mystery cults to say definitively what they got up to, but the fact that they ritualised sex at all suggests they were aiming for something higher.

>>1824502
If the memes are anything to go by, John Green is basic as fuck.

>>1822396
You realize they're only virgins the absolute first time they have sex right? Your statement carries the implication that your preferred manner of sex is a single interaction between strangers that is never repeated.

Stop treating people like disposable masturbatory aids you depraved hedonist.

>>1824486
What a bunch of hippie bullshit.

>>1824523
>the reason you orgasm has nothing to do with reasoning, rationality, strive of excellence
originally not, but it can be re-purposed. Just as all art is a re-purposing of primitive responses to sensual impulses.

>your reason to strive to excel in sex is your craving of a primitive orgasm
wrong

>that orgasm was created not by you, your reasoning or rationality
>that orgasm was created by an ancient biological function to add funk and pleasure to animal life
>plants have a reproductive drive and command but lack the orgasm that animals take for granted
irrelevant.

>>1824531
stop pretending you have moral reasons for opposing promiscuous sex. you only dislike it because you can't get it yourself

>>1823427
>If sex is so destructive than why are bonobos, one of humanity's closest relatives, so peaceful compared to other primates when they just constantly fuck each other?

Reminder that bonobos are an endangered species, so clearly that shit isn't working out for them in the long run.

>>1824526
I have no idea what you mean by "mystery cult" but I assume you just mean regular cults.

>the fact that they ritualised sex at all suggests they were aiming for something higher
Or maybe they were aiming to exploit the power structures inherent to cults in order to force lower ranking members into becoming available for sexual exploitation for the higher ranking members.

I very much doubt that any cult was on to reaching something "higher" through ritualised sexual activity.

>>1824546
>>your reason to strive to excel in sex is your craving of a primitive orgasm
>wrong

so just plug ur throat w/ a dragon dildo

Living a life of pleasure is bad for you.

When you start looking at sex as some super important thing, you end up becoming a slave to it. When you don't get it, you feel bad. When you do, you are only increasing your desire for it, that goes stronger, making you more of a slave.

Read old philosophy.

>>1824550
>Reminder that bonobos are an endangered species, so clearly that shit isn't working out for them in the long run.
That's irrelevant to the fact that they are peaceful, and that promiscuity is not a sign of destructive behaviour at least in the case of the bonobo. (our closest relative)

>>1821718
What do you think you are? The ape believes itself noble because it is white.

>>1824558
>so just plug ur throat w/ a dragon dildo
That's the sexual equivalent of anime. Low-brow as fuck.

>>1824568
>promiscuity is not a sign of destructive behaviour
It depends on the species and how well it puts up with promiscuity. The fact that it's working out for bonobos does not mean that it would work out for humans or other species, which might as well be much more jealous and less eager to share.

>>1824561
>Living a life of pleasure is bad for you.

On the contrary living a life repressed to it is worse for you because it is impossible for a human being to hate sexual pleasure. Just as bacteria love to split, life loves to fuck. Life always finds a way.

The more you treat it as either a bigger deal than it is and engage in anything psychologically damaging like incest or rape, or the more you repress it, feeds an endless loop where one leads into the other.

The faux wisdom of sex isn't just that, sex, is always peddled by those who have a dangerous secret to keep in their minds.

>>1824561
>>1824579
And once again, the answer is moderation. In most things in life the answer will be moderation.

>>1824549
>stop pretending you oppose senseless violence out of moral reasons you only dislike it because you're weak and know you'll get your ass kicked.

Your attempts at shaming someone for not being a hedonist like you, are pathetic.

>>1824555
>I have no idea what you mean by "mystery cult"
Ancient Greek and Roman religions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries

>Or maybe they were aiming to exploit the power structures inherent to cults in order to force lower ranking members into becoming available for sexual exploitation for the higher ranking members.
That certainly went on a lot, but it doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of them. There's also the fact that much of their activities were christian fabrications intended to discredit them. Still I believe there's a grain of truth there. There are similar traditions in other places.

>>1824587
The Shame!

>>1824568
>not a sign of destructive behavior
and yet their entire species is on the brink of destruction

>>1824572
>wants to use sex as a tool to explore the human psyche
>it is not about the primitive orgasm
>orgasm is irrelevant and undesirable
>sex can be re-purposed
>sexually penetrating your oral orifices w/ a dragon dildo is sexual equivalent of anime. Low-brow as fuck

fine just keep the dragon dildo up your ass then

>>1824597
> That certainly went on a lot, but it doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of them.
How would you know?
By definition the structure of their beliefs and customs are a lost mystery.

>>1824601
That's more the fault of human beings than bonobos, since you know, they've lived for over a million years and humans haven't and we're managing to wipe out everything faster than anything living in the last ten.

>>1824615
>How would you know?
I don't know but I suspect so due to the nature of religion in general. "Certainly" isn't always literal.

>>1824618
>million year head start
>still getting btfo
Maybe they should have spent less time fornicating and more time evolving then.

>>1824639
>Maybe they should have spent less time fornicating and more time evolving then.

If evidence proves anything we are doing a worse job and are self destructing in less time.

File: 1465950796922.jpg (157KB, 469x1307px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 469x1307px

Sex matters to women because it gives them pleasure (women are build for pleasure) and can be the beginning of a good relation with a provider

Sex matters to men because they compete for them [which is why they despise whores, since whores value each man equally], but more importantly, their pathetic orgasms make them believe they are relevant to reality during one instant. For men, Sex is an existential solution, which is why they praise whores, because the whore makes them cum during a few seconds.
But men are not build for pleasure and they equally need the competition with ''non whorish women'', which is why men think the dichotomy ''saint/pure/virgin and whore/slut''.

>>1824647
Could you stop sounding like a retard thanks

>>1824636
You suspect so because you're a degenerate justifying his fetishes behind the mask if "exploration". You're probably one of those freaks who call cuckolding the "thinking man's fetish".

>>1824654
>degenerate

What is wrong with sex and why is sex degeneracy rather than larger justification of violence?

What makes something degrade society more than the other?

>>1824579

You think it is impossible to not crave sexual pleasure as some super important thing?

But there are people that live great lives while celibate.

Do you think that by not being promiscuous and not indulging in sex as much as you can you are repressing yourself and making you worse?

But let's think about people who have are controlled by their desires. Is a Lindsay Lohan what you have in mind when you think about a happy person?

File: 20161014_092023.jpg (64KB, 214x336px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 214x336px

>>1824511

>>1824639
>Maybe they should have spent less time fornicating and more time evolving then.
Because their close relatives with very similar social structure got there first. genetically we're more like bonobos. (and chimps, who are also not monogamous but more dominance-based). Our memes are what made us puritanistic, not our genes. But then those memes got BTFO by western culture and now sex is back.

Reminder that each person is on earth because:
-A woman chooses to bend over
-A man desired to please her

>>1824665
>You think it is impossible to not crave sexual pleasure as some super important thing?

I mean unless you have some sort of hormonal problem, yeah it's essentially impossible.

>But there are people that live great lives while celibate.

They also have a terminal problem of touching children they're watching over.

Or just not being celibate.

>But let's think about people who have are controlled by their desires. Is a Lindsay Lohan what you have in mind when you think about a happy person?

I don't know. Maybe there is more to being happy or sad than too much sex or too less sex.

Maybe...human beings are...complicated...? No....

>>1824645
So go shit in the woods then hippy, if you hate civilization so much.

>>1821711
Because sex it's degenerate

File: isis-video-destroy-statues.si.jpg (78KB, 690x388px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 690x388px

>>1824654
>you're a degenerate
Funny, I was just about to call you the same thing. You're primitive and paranoid.

>You're probably one of those freaks who call cuckolding the "thinking man's fetish".
No, cuckoldry is unaesthetic.

>>1824675
>Reminder that each person is on earth because:

That's putting way too much emphasis on being over as weakness. There are multiple ways to have to fun.

I would like to offer a better reminder that people who think in terms of strong or weak are more likely to be in high school, and going through their angsty phase with access to internet easier than ever before, in more rural areas.

File: 1446594562302.jpg (143KB, 2418x891px) Image search: [Google]

143KB, 2418x891px

Reminder that Women love ONS, but not with you.

>>1824682
>So go shit in the woods then hippy

What? Why?

>if you hate civilization so much.

Where did I say that?

>>1824692
Reminder that men don't love at all :)

>>1824671
>and now sex is back.
Not for long.

>The whole of human history does not contain a single instance of a group becoming civilized unless it has been absolutely monogamous, nor is there any example of a group retaining its culture after it has adopted less rigorous customs

>Unwin's conclusions, which are based upon an enormous wealth of carefully sifted evidence, may be summed up as follows. All human societies are in one or another of six cultural conditions: zoistic, manistic, deistic, rationalistic, expansive, productive. Of these societies the zoistic displays the least amount of mental and social energy, the productive the most. Investigation shows that the societies exhibiting the least amount of energy are those where pre-nuptial continence is not imposed and where the opportunities for sexual indulgence after marriage are greatest. The cultural condition of a society rises in exact proportion as it imposes pre-nuptial and post-nuptial restraints upon sexual opportunity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Unwin

>>1824703
>unwin

Foucault has more merit

>>1824692
manlets btfo

>>1822392
Not him, semi-experienced guy here (non-virgin, multiple year-long-plus relationships). And I agree with you totally. The thing is you need both. If you're not sexually attracted to someone but find them intellectually stimulating, then you've found a friend, which is great. But a relationship would be unsatisfying. On the other hand, if all you have is sexual attraction then, as you say, you'll find yourself not so keen once the initial lust wears off. You basically need someone that you could happily be close friends with that you'd also like to fuck.

That's my view anyway. But to completely blow out everything I just said, the first girl I had sex with WAS my best friend for years beforehand, but our relationship ended very nastily after only a year. I'd say that was for other reasons than simple lack of interest though, so I think there's still validity in the above points.

>>1824681

There are plenty of people that don't crave sex as much as you do. Not everyone is controlled by their desires.

You are so much a slave to your passions that you think it is impossible to be free.

And most priests are actually celibate. Only a small minority is not.

>>1824661
Sex does not degrade society.
Uncontrolled sex degrades society.
We both agree violence is not inherently bad and has a place in human society right?
That humans would go extinct if they became incapable of violence just as surely as they would if they became incapable of sex.

Now that we've established that common ground consider the following.
What would our society look like if we treated violence the way you hedonists suggest sex should be treated?

>Torture? No! I'm merely aiding this man in his exploration of the limits of his psyche!

>>1824703
Monogamy is essential for agricultural societies. Agricultural societies are being systematically cukt by industrialised societies, which are more open to sex.

>>1824724
>There are plenty of people that don't crave sex as much as you do.
Never denied that.

>Not everyone is controlled by their desires

Where did I suggest anyone was.

>You are so much a slave to your passions that you think it is impossible to be free.

You're being pretentious

>>1824671
>Because their close relatives with very similar social structure got there first.

Yeah, because they were too busy eating each other's assholes in the jungle to invent the stick.

>>1824681
> They also have a terminal problem of touching children they're watching over.

What's wrong with touching children hedonist? It's just sex remember?

>>1824725
>Uncontrolled sex degrades society.

How? When there's no contraception sure, but when there is, there's no longer a population problem as large. In fact if you're going to argue this for over-population realize the only real threat we have overpopulation wise is our own contribution to carbon emissions per person since our society relies on it more.

If you're going to argue my-precious-morals-at-risk are more dangerous to society than climate change than I really don't need to argue with someone who's world view extends as far as their neighbor.

Your arguing that sex and torture are the same aren't making me very optimistic about this.

>>1824687
>unaesthetic
But orgies are right?

>>1824745
>But orgies are right?
depends on the orgy

>>1824743
Not once did I mention overpopulation, and you ignored my argue about violence entirely.

Yor statement is the same as saying that indiscriminate violence is ok because we have hospitals now.

>>1824741
>What's wrong with touching children hedonist? It's just sex remember?

Psychological damage. There is no credible reason to suggest gay sex between sexually mature adults traumatizes either unless there is more going on inside their mind.

Power over powerlessness is the problem.

Your inability to differentiate anything and going with the classic slippery slope for the trillionth time in an online debate is the problem.

>all those degenerates
i hope you all burn in hell

>>1824762
but anon...you are the degenerate

File: image.jpg (62KB, 394x370px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 394x370px

>>1822387
>posting on a Malaysian carpet design website
>superior

>>1824755
>Not once did I mention overpopulation

That's the problem I suggested. You are giving sex a corrosive ability it doesn't have. The only corrosive ability it could have is overpopulation and fighting to right the density with itself.

>and you ignored my argue about violence entirely.

It wasn't worth arguing over. Sex and violence are two different things. Though it is somewhat a violent act, we are arguing about something totally harmless.

You seem to equate sex and violence in totality. It's silly.

We don't need to argue the point.

>Yor statement is the same as saying that indiscriminate violence is ok because we have hospitals now.

No, it literally isn't.

My point is

>When there's no contraception sure, but when there is, there's no longer a population problem as large. In fact if you're going to argue this for over-population realize the only real threat we have overpopulation wise is our own contribution to carbon emissions per person since our society relies on it more.

>>1824757
Slippery slope is not a fallacy in of itself.

>Psychological damage.
Please provide proof that sex with children is psychologically damaging but sex with adults magically ceases to be once they cross an arbitrary line of legal adulthood.

>There is no credible reason to suggest gay sex between sexually mature adults traumatizes either unless there is more going on inside their mind.
Homosexuals are mentally ill to begin with.

>Power over powerlessness is the problem.
Imbalanced power dynamics are a part of all social interactions. Please explain why they magically become damaging in a sexual relationship but not a professional one.

>>1824799
>Slippery slope is not a fallacy in of itself.

It's a dumbass incorrect argument not a fallacy.

>Please provide proof that sex with children is psychologically damaging

Really

>but sex with adults magically ceases to be once they cross an arbitrary line of legal adulthood.

This magical thing you should have learned in school called puberty, Cletus. Unless you dropped out before you learned about what puberty, is.

>Homosexuals are mentally ill to begin with.

Cite a hot source for that spicy opinion. That isn't "MAN PENIS GIRL VAGINA SMUSH SMUSH"

>mbalanced power dynamics are a part of all social interactions

Like me having better arguments than you.

>Please explain why they magically become damaging in a sexual relationship but not a professional one.

Because it's just the way it is, intimacy in war or in bed is a psychiatrically vulnerable period. It's complicated and you are basically asking for its complexity to be reduced so I can speak to you in terms a first grader could understand.

You are not worth the trouble.

>>1824772
>though it is somewhat a violent act, we are arguing about something totally harmless.
I reject your a priori assumption and all the arguments you have constructed from that premise.

You treat sex as if it's only repercussions are childbirth, and if childbirth can be neutralized then sex has been neutralized. I reject that claim as nonsense.

>>1824597
>Ancient Greek and Roman religions.
Religion is by definition not the most 'reasonable' kind of thing.

>Still I believe there's a grain of truth there. There are similar traditions in other places.
Just because many people are doing it does not mean that anything higher is waiting at the end. People like having sex and they like to indulge. That's all there is to it.

>>1824815
>I reject your a priori assumption

Alright just realize you're a retard by doing so.

>You treat sex as if it's only repercussions are childbirth

There is no argument to be made that having more sex totally annihilates society. Do you know what does? The million other things we are doing wrong.

Climate Change. Deforestation. Extinction not seen in millions of years, ruining ecosystems, creating islands of trash the size of Manhattan in the Pacific Ocean, all these things have more of an impact on our future than more sex with contraceptives.

Argue material cause, not magic voodoo moral cause.

Because as far as I can tell you're offended over being childish.

>>1824810
>It's a dumbass incorrect argument not a fallacy.
It's a perfectly acceptable argument, it's not my fault your only exposure to it has been as a fallacious one.

>Cite a hot source for that spicy opinion.
How about the fact that it was classified as one until homosexuals protested to get that changed?

>This magical thing you should have learned in school called puberty, Cletus. Unless you dropped out before you learned about what puberty, is.
Puberty can begin as early as THREE years old. Are you suggesting sex with three year olds is acceptable?

>you are not worth the trouble
Yes I can tell you feel that way from the piss poor arguments you've made in this thread.

>>1824843
>It's a perfectly acceptable argument

Nope.

>How about the fact that it was classified as one until homosexuals protested to get that changed?

This is really what you're arguing. A cabal of gay people in positions of academic psychiatric power decided "Yes.....more sin........."

You're retarded

>Puberty can begin as early as THREE years old

Oh my god.

>Are you suggesting sex with three year olds is acceptable?

No

>Yes I can tell you feel that way from the piss poor arguments you've made in this thread.

The only piss that's happening here is the kind in my pants from laughing so hard

>>1824826
>I'm a retard for not accepting your beliefs without question
lol whatever you say bro

>There is no argument to be made that having more sex totally annihilates society.
That's a nice black and white fallacy there. Apparently unless something "totally annihilates society" it's impossible for it to be bad or a problem.

>>1824337
Had the opposite happen to me when i was stationed in Germany

>>1824863
>lol whatever you say bro

Cool.

>That's a nice black and white fallacy there.

There is no material consequence you're listing so I have to make up the material consequence I'm assuming you're suggesting. That isn't a good argument, I'm having to argue for you.

>Apparently unless something "totally annihilates society" it's impossible for it to be bad or a problem.

If there's no material massive consequence to it there literally isn't a problem. There are bigger problems you should worry about.

>>1824857
>A cabal of gay people in positions of academic psychiatric power decided "Yes.....more sin........."
Nice strawman.
>Oh my god.
I'm sorry facts hurt your feelings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty

>>1824872
>no material consequence
By your standards there are no "materialism consequence" for rape and child molestation so pardon me for not abiding by them.

>>1824880
>Nice strawman.

That is what you argued. I'm not going to take it seriously. I will be as fallacious as I want lol

>I'm sorry facts hurt your feelings.

I'm not even going to argue with you over this. You're correct, by saying that celibate Catholics rape children more than others, and that's a problem, I'm saying that all children with precocious puberty should be legal and you pointing my secret hidden child fucking agenda is personally hurting my feelings

>>1824821
>Religion is by definition not the most 'reasonable' kind of thing.
I agree but it often inspires people to search. Not always, and not all religions are equal.

>Just because many people are doing it does not mean that anything higher is waiting at the end.
Maybe, maybe not. I'd prefer to figure that out for myself. In fact I'd think it negligent of a society not to encourage or at least permit development in the area.

I think your comment is being overly dismissive. Switch sex for any other sensory pleasure and you'd see what I mean

>Just because people listen to music doesn't mean there is anything higher. People like music and dancing. That's all there is to it.
And to some people that's the case. Music is just escapism on the weekend or background noise for relaxing. For others it's a pursuit in itself.

I prefer music to sex, and I think it has potential far beyond sex does. I still think it would be a shame to lock out sex, especially considering it's a fairly unique manner of expression and communication and there are very few ways to simulate the effect it has on the human brain.

>>1824884
>By your standards there are no "materialism consequence" for rape and child molestation

No there are actually material consequences to that.

>>1824890
>that is what you argued
Not it is not.

>nonsensical rambling
It's amazing to me that you can't keep track of your own arguments.

00D2542
00D2542
00D2542
00D2542
00D2542

>>1824892
Proof?
Contraception and abortion means that there is no longer a population problem stemming from people born through rape so logically it's not a big deal anymore.

>>1824922
>Not it is not.

It's something equally stupid. If medical science no longer considers homosexuality a mental illness with reason, it is no longer a mental illness, and the opinions of professionals out weigh your own childish wishes of simple morality tales. Even if we are to suggest all mental illnesses are negative and the term should be treated as a stigmatized insult, you wouldn't have negative consequence for people engaging in that specific mental illness.

Prove the fact it fucks everything up and is a mental illness that deserves treatment because of its material consequences, clearly, without referencing pedophilia or bestiality, or stop arguing now.

>It's amazing to me that you can't keep track of your own arguments.

Simple things probably amaze you. I have some car keys I can jiggle in front of you.

>>1824936
>Contraception and abortion means that there is no longer a population problem stemming from people born through rape so logically it's not a big deal anymore.

Psychological trauma and associated problem stemming from this.

But if you want to throw a tantrum instead of a clear argument against this being the way it factually works, continue.

a woman loves to think that she is not docile, while dreaming of being in full trust of a captivating chad who takes her without permissions so that, during the night, while he sleeps, she can dream of saving the destitute after the chad has fucked her properly for the first time in her life of going from lovers to lovers, craving a eclectic panorama of precious moments...

Prohibiting women to sleep around is being anti-women. Prohibiting women to flee responsibilities is anti-women. Prohibiting women to get rid of their lovers and babies is antiwomen.

File: 2645518.main_image.jpg (90KB, 1000x1500px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 1000x1500px

>>1824945
>a woman loves to think that she is not docile, while dreaming of being in full trust of a captivating chad who takes her without permissions so that, during the night, while he sleeps, she can dream of saving the destitute after the chad has fucked her properly for the first time in her life of going from lovers to lovers, craving a eclectic panorama of precious moments

This is you

>>1824936
Well rape is a social construct pushed by humanists/liberals who believe in a self.

>>1824952
>Well rape is a social construct pushed by humanists/liberals who believe in a self.

I miss when the underbelly of the internet was still naive and innocent enough to believe in hopeful things that were more possible like Alien Abduction or Reptoid worldship

>>1824944
>sexual acts with children induces psychological trauma but sex with adults magically ceases to because unclear reasons that have yet to be expanded upon beyond "lol puberty ever heard of it Cletus?".

>>1824939
>Even if we are to suggest all mental illnesses are negative and the term should be treated as a stigmatized insult, you wouldn't have negative consequence for people engaging in that specific mental illness.

I have not stigmatized mental illness, I merely said homosexuals are mentally ill by default so claiming that gay sex doesn't result in psychological damage is an outlandish claim as the behavior itself is an example of psychological damage.

>>1824966
You have to be in grade school. You have to. No adult makes arguments that little jimmy makes in sixth grade learning about sex for the first time.

Intimacy can be damaging without consent because...it's physically intimate. You can get trauma from repeated life experiences from nothing more than repeated verbal abuse from people around you. If words can hurt, sex can also hurt.

But that does not automatically mean every homosexual is traumatizing themselves, homosexuality is mental illness, or I'm arguing pedophilia is ok.

You need to stop being confused about what I'm saying. If you need help understanding psychiatry or the law, wikipedia can do a basic enough job.

>>1824952
>rape is a social construct
This is actually correct

>>1824989
>I have not stigmatized mental illness

Sure.

>I merely said homosexuals are mentally ill by default

Hmmmmmmm.....don't see it in the DSM-V, are you sure?

>so claiming that gay sex doesn't result in psychological damage is an outlandish claim

Hmmmmmmm.....don't see it in the DSM-V, are you sure?

>as the behavior itself is an example of psychological damage.

Hmmmmmmm.....don't see it in the DSM-V, are you sure?

>>1825002
>>1824951

>>1824996
One day you'll realize condescension and snark are not substitutions for an argument.

>If words can hurt, sex can also hurt.
That's my entire point. You're minimizing the potential damage promiscuous sex can inflict by hiding behind the concept of consent, as if consent magically prevents psychological trauma.

I'm not saying you support pedophilia. I'm saying the arguments you use to justice promiscuity do.

>>1823528
English society in general is bitchy and sexless. Compared to any latin society people in Britain, The United States, and Canada (I can't say about Australia) will generally be somewhat cold and stand-offish about sex. It's not about low standards, its just that culturally sex is seen as a private thing. In Brazil for example, people will fuck at the drop of a hat, but even people with low standards in most of the Anglophone world will demand some sort of special status.

I live in Canada at least, and from my experience (not as someone who's unsuccessful with women, but as someone who has alright luck) is that women will generally stand back and at best make awkward gestures while they wait to get approached. Women in South America (and I'm guessing Africa, from what I've heard about their culture and seen of Brazil) will actively approach men more casually.

I've always thought that Catholic countries are full of whores trying to act like puritans, while Anglo countries are full of puritans trying to act like whores.

The cultural demands of courtship carry countless unwritten and unconscious stipulations and biases. The only cases where polygamy seems common are small highly communal tribes. As soon as people are faced with an impersonal and uncaring society (ie, late agricultural society), the existential fear sets in and monogamy springs up. Just look at /r9k/.

>>1825043
>One day you'll realize condescension and snark are not substitutions for an argument.

They are fun, however.

>That's my entire point

I know it is, and your point is fucking retarded and mixes up issues and causes like a lost grade school student.

>You're minimizing the potential damage promiscuous sex can inflict by hiding behind the concept of consent

Then
Prove
Consensual
Sex
Between
Post-Biological-Puberty Adults
That Is Not
Abusive
Is
Causing
Massive
Trauma
Like
Non
Consensual
Sex
That
Involves
Abuse

Also, since you went through the trouble of reading all that, you can read this again.

>When there's no contraception sure, but when there is, there's no longer a population problem as large. In fact if you're going to argue this for over-population realize the only real threat we have overpopulation wise is our own contribution to carbon emissions per person since our society relies on it more.

There are larger issues to worry about than your fantasy world where 2+2=5 and all sex is rape.

>I'm not saying you support pedophilia. I'm saying the arguments you use to justice promiscuity do.

Honestly

>>1825004
>don't see it in the DSM-V,
Yeah and why is that?
Seriously.
Can you explain what their justification was or are you just kowtowing to the priesthood and accepting something you heard from authority without question?

>>1825072
>Yeah and why is that?

Because of this magical thing called peer review within academia.

Sometimes things change, and when they do, it happens for good observable reasons. We no longer believe in many things.

This is not the end of the world.

>Can you explain what their justification was or are you just kowtowing to the priesthood and accepting something you heard from authority without question?

Kowtowing to the priesthood and accepting something you heard from authority without question

This
Fucking
Thread

Jeepers

>>1825069
Yeah I'm not going to respond to your non-argument since you formatted it like a dick and made it impractical to quote efficiently.

You're a hypocrite and your arguments are logically inconsistent. You recognize that abusive sex can cause trauma but pretend that all consensual sex is non-abusive by default since it is consensual.

Everything even remotely fun considered decadence by the puritans from board games to popular music. Honestly, at this point I am sure that they are just emotionally damaged people by default.

>>1825088
>Because of this magical thing called peer review within academia.
So you don't actually know in other words.

>>1825106
>So you don't actually know in other words.

Actually now do know thanks to peer review later on.

I would talk to you, but you are about as able to accept nuance as a child kicking the back of my seat and screaming on an airplane about having to piss

>>1825113
>Actually now do know thanks to peer review later on.
This is an English language website please refrain from posting in foreign languages outside of /int/.

>>1825072
> Can you explain what their justification was
You don't need *justification* to not making up the mental illness on the spot. You could as well ask why drinking tea is not hardcore insanity and how this is justified, or if such example is not realistic enough, why not criticism of communism is not a sign of being crazy person. It was in Soviet States for example.

>>1825122
>This is an English language website please refrain from posting in foreign languages outside of /int/.

I made a typo. So far I have been able to prove you should stop worrying about people have sex, and so far you have pissed yourself, and humiliated everyone on the board with your argument.

Please, for the sake of board health, bring up actual problems next time.

>>1822365
>>1822365
>Infrareds
>Sonars
>Telescopes
>Automobiles
>Engines
>Boats
>Hydraulics
>Diving gear
>Ladders, although not as fast
>You got me there

>>1825127
They did not just make up on the spot any more so than they made up any other disorder on the spot. It was classified by them as a mental illness, and I'm asking if anyone here actually knows what their justification for reclassification was.

>>1825130
>So far I have been able to prove you should stop worrying about people have sex,

Are you a woman by any chance?

>>1825176
>They did not just make up on the spot any more so than they made up any other disorder on the spot

Factually wrong actually.

>>1825184
Are you ? Because you sure are pussying out of debating like a bitch

>>1821711
>Why is sex considered decadence by the puritans?

It's not, casual sex is and that's because it brings diseases, shows lack of self control and is dangerous in many other ways.

>>1825190
>casual sex is and that's because it brings diseases, shows lack of self control and is dangerous in many other ways.

All preventable currently.

>>1825192
>All preventable currently.

By not having sex, none of the countermeasures are 100% safe and doctors do insist on that.

>>1825185
Proof?

>>1825214
>By not having sex

No. Actually, thankfully really, we have condoms. Abstinence is retarded and nobody listens to it because life finds a way. Asking things to not see what they like and fuck each other is like asking bacteria to stop splitting. It's not happening. Will not happen, no matter how many times you say no bad naughty.

Contraception and safe sex are more reasonable solutions to this problem, there it's fixed.

Worry about legitimate threats to society now.

>>1825187
It's impossible to "debate" with someone who argues like an overly emotional child.

>>1825221
It wasn't even early in the history of psychiatry they removed it. It was removed in the fucking DSM-II. That is, the second version. There is no long standing history of understanding homosexuality as a "dangerous mental illness".

It was considered a non-hazardous mental illness, and then that was removed, in the second fucking edition.

Christ stop asking to be fed and just speak on topics you're educated on instead.

>>1825226
Agreed anon. We can't debate.

>>1825225
>expecting people to have self control is impossible
You're a child.

>>1825239
Self control and the urge to fuck are two different things. You aren't going to stop hormones from triggering certain things in the human brain, like the urge to hump one another. The best we can do is offer contraception.

And that works much better than without safe sex and contraception and just relying on good faith sacred genitalia don't punch and every sacred sperm isn't wasted.

Not only this, but this isn't a serious societal issue. It is safe, your mind is at ease, and you can start worrying about shit that actually matters.

>>1825232
You realize this was argument over whether or not it was considered a mental illness not whether or not it was considered a dangerous one right?

>>1825225
There are people that are capable of only having sex in marriage. Why do you suppose everyone needs to have casual sex?

Also, contraceptives can't prevent the worst part of promiscuity, that is becoming someone that needs sex and becomes attached to it.

>>1825245
>Self control and the urge to fuck are two different things. You aren't going to stop hormones from triggering certain things in the human brain, like the urge to hump one another.

No they are very much the same thing. That's why rape is a crime and farting isn't.

>>1825251
> Why do you suppose everyone needs to have casual sex?

Because the person is either a hormonal twelve year old boy or a mentally damaged roastie.

>>1825251
>There are people that are capable of only having sex in marriage. Why do you suppose everyone needs to have casual sex?

Never said that.

>>1825254
>No they are very much the same thing

No they aren't.

>>1825263
>Because the person is either a hormonal twelve year old boy

That's the one christian fundamentalist who's ass is on fire that someone disagrees with them about the consequences of sex in society.

Taught zeal and immaturity to sex on the internet usually go hand in hand with underage posters.

>>1825269
>Christian fundamentalist
I don't remember bringing up Christ in any of my arguments...

>>1825245
You are basically saying people can't have self control and so they should be slaves to their sexual desires.

You actually can't even imagine how someone can't be dependent on sex.

Being a slave to desire is a serious problem. This causes depression, broken families, etc.

It seems like you are uneducated.

>>1821752
Hello Karl Marx. But is it possible that the weak woman could find a outcome sticking to a strong man in a world where everyone can rape her as he wishes? Or where feminist laws a thing in prehistoric times?

I see this whole view as quite wild assumption.

>>1825276
>I don't remember bringing up Christ in any of my arguments...

Then you should point out I'm wrong

>>1825277
>You are basically saying people can't have self control

Nope. Just that you can't expect sex to happen a lot. We have six billion people, a person for almost half the years the universe is old. Wonder how they got there?

It's pointless to try and control an unpredictable system, chaos inherently fucks with what you want.

>You actually can't even imagine how someone can't be dependent on sex.

I actually can. You need to stop pointing fingers.

>Being a slave to desire is a serious problem

Stop making me horny

>This causes depression, broken families, etc.

God I'm getting even hornier

>It seems like you are uneducated.

No projection

>>1821711
They don't see sex as decadent only promiscuity is.

>>1824531
>>1822396
Virgins really are absolute shit in bed. I was okay-ish my first time because I autistically spent hours and hours over multiple days researching - not watching porn, literally researching educational material on how to not suck at sex. But it took at least 20-50 times before I could say that I was good in bed. This is, of course, anecdotal, but I would guess that that number is a pretty low number for how many times it takes to be good, and that number also represents a significant investment in time to the normal person.

IE, if someone has sex with you, and you are their first time, chances are you're going to have to endure a few months of sub-par sex (assuming this is part of a stable relationship). You won't realise this if you were a virgin too, but it really really REALLY isn't great. Like lose your boner halfway through not great. And don't even get me started on how bad real virgins are at blowjobs. In fact, even fairly experienced girls are pretty bad at blowjobs.

The main issue that I, as a guy, have with virgins is that they barely ever take initiative during sex, meaning that it becomes (in all seriousness) a physical workout. Great for gainz but less fun than it should be.

TLDR: it's just more fun to have sex with a person who knows exactly what they're doing, and the amount of time you have to invest to teach a person what to do during sex is long even in the context of a long, stable relationship.

>>1825339
Sex us about making children and not about having fun you culterless degenerate.

>>1825383
What did he mean by this

>>1825383
This, the ultimate redpill, degenerates get out from my board

>>1825383
>>1825395
denying sex is denying life.

>>1825397
Denying responsibility is denying life.

>>1825428
makes you think.............

>>1825383
Sex actually has multiple emotional effects, some of them quite positive (bringing partners closer together for instance) that one could consider its purpose based on personal preference and values and with the intervention of the cheap, widely available contraceptives we have available need not result in children. Children are merely a potential result of sex, not its divinely decreed purpose, and indeed trying to establish "purpose" to natural phenomenon is just a game of philosophical ass-grab that only fools take part in.

>>1825428
Nah, responsibility is just a fiction of the mind, not an inherent part of life itself. If you choose to ignore it, it ceases to be.

>>1825383
> things can have only one purpose
I guess, you use knives only to kill people too.

>>1825455
T. Parasite of society

There more of you, the less well off a society. Look at Africa.

>>1825453
So now that we have abortions we can regulate our size again like tribal people do, child murder.
We really go forward in social development.
I think this modern phenomenon of try hard justification of irresponsible and anti-social behaviour will snap back when good times are over and everyone will clearly look at our times and see how decadence of some destroyed the good life of everyone.

>>1825453
Then fool I am. I can bet ill be happier in the end though.

>fools never realize they are fools. Ironic, isn't it?

>>1825480
>Parasite of society

Overly political religious zealots on the internet?

>>1825480
> There more of you, the less well off a society.
Yeah, let's work all for great prosperity like people of the Soviet Union or Communist China. There is no point in personal profit, all for the nation, guys!

File: Jesus.jpg (294KB, 1108x788px) Image search: [Google]

294KB, 1108x788px

>>1825480
A fruit of the spirit is forbearance. Do you have forbearance?

Try harder for forbearance!

>>1825499
how about I don't and fuck to american football while crying

>>1825489
>Overly political zealots on the internet?
You mean the internet in general, right?

>>1825502
why are you angry?

>>1825480
Yeah... Decadence of some! It is totally, the nasty hedonistic people who fuck each other, destroying our society... Clearly, not elites and their decision making process of maximizing profits at any cost!

>>1825507
If you're so prone
To accidents and misunderstandings
You may accidentally
Misinterpret honesty for selfishness

>>1825511
Not just elites. If you look back at history, the greatest society (Rome) has many faults that modern society does. It is inevitable to have our modern hedonistic society fall, just like rome.

>>1825515
?

>>1825517
>It is inevitable to have our modern hedonistic society fall, just like rome.

Not because of sex or hedonism

Because of social consequences to ignorance to how the ecology worked while pushing industry into gear.

>>1825480
>Parasite of society.

I'm a social organism, and take part in the collective give and take, I just acknowledge it for what it is and don't try to co-opt the language of philosophers I disagree with to justify my religious lunacy.

>child murder.
>he believes that a non-thinking clump of cells is a child

Idiot.

>I think this modern phenomenon of try hard justification of irresponsible and anti-social behaviour will snap back when good times are over and everyone will clearly look at our times and see how decadence of some destroyed the good life of everyone.

Is that why basically every metric of prosperity and health is better now than it has ever been previously? Why even in the developing world things have been improving due to economic interdependency?

>>1825485
>I can bet ill be happier in the end though.

I highly doubt it.

>>1825519
I'mmmmmm noooooooot deaaaaaad yeeeeeeet
Buuut the regrrrrrettttttts aaarrrere killllllllllling meeeeeeee

>>1825517
>le Rome fell due to decadence meme

We should force people to pass a history exam before posting here.

>>1825520
No. Look at the history of Rome and see how it fell. Then get back to me and tell me how the environment has jack-shit to do with the fall of society.

>>1825526
wtf?

>>1825532
>No.

I want what you're saying to be true so you can be fucked historically in your worst nightmare scenario, over time but you're not correct unfortunately. Which is sad because you're very irritating.

>>1825531
I id not say decadence was the main and only cause. Just that it was a contributing factor.

Stop getting your balls in a twist.

>>1824561
> Living a life of pleasure is bad for you.
Life full of suffering and pain is what really good for you! Said literally nobody ever.
> When you start looking at sex as some super important thing
The same goes for literally everything. People who take their religions super seriously are slaves for a literal Death Cults, for example. It is super serious part that really fucking up people lives, not really a pleasure itself. Positive feedback loops would form anyway, with sex or without it. This is just how the psychology works. People without any desires are lying to themselves or just mentally ill.

>>1825532
Widespread famines due to crop failures owing to Roman farming practices were definitely a big factor in the collapse in the Western Roman Empire.

Anyone that tries to pin the collapse of the Western Roman Empire on a single factor is either a moron or an ideologue.

>>1825538
I can be more irritating if you want?

>>1825533
IIIIII juuuuuust thiiiiiink ittttt's beesssst
'Caaaaussssse yoooouuuu caaaannn't misssss whaaaatttt yooouuuu forrrrrgget

File: Chart (47).png (65KB, 1095x1498px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 1095x1498px

>>1825517
> It's Rome fell because *that one thing* episode!

>>1825540
>Life full of suffering and pain is what really good for you!
But this is what xians akshully beleeb
>People who take their religions super seriously are slaves for a literal Death Cults, for example.
That's because xianity is an apocalyptic death cult

>>1825539
>Stop getting your balls in a twist.

Stop using incredibly complex historical events to push your particular trashcan of an ideology around.

>>1825542
I did not say it was a single factor.

>>1825549
I did not say it was a single factor.

>>1825555
>It is inevitable to have our modern hedonistic society fall, just like rome.

This statement, right here, implies that hedonism ensures the inevitable fall of society. That's basically putting it down to a single factor. Sorry, you're an ideologue. But don't worry, with some introspection and pursuit of actual learning, you can stop being a psychotic retard.

>>1825552
>...to push your particular trashcan of an ideology around.
I did not say it was a single factor. I did not way sexuality was the main cause.

>>1825562
key word you used is "IMPLIES"
sorry if I gave you the wrong idea. I did not mean it how you think I did.

File: 2 Swimsuits.jpg (163KB, 800x1200px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 800x1200px

Promiscuous degenerate here,

The people arguing against this practice have neither the time, inclination, nor capacity to satisfy multiple partners. That is fine.

I would not be so presumptuous as to state that they wish that they could, or that they have been lied to by society, or that they have otherwise been spooked into living lives less sexually satisfying than should be expected.

Those of us who do are trying to fuck as vigorously, repeatedly, and with the best variety of partners partners. This is also fine.

Is the cause the world's problems, stemming from disintegrating families? The absurdity is on it's face.

One group judging the other? Just come on.

Also, this thread needs more imagery.

>>1821711
>done right is a beautiful thing
>done right
How would you define it as being "done right"

>>1825558
People always blame *whatever they hate* on fall of Roman Empire. You can see that in chart. The one historian blames Moral Decline. The another one blames Moral Idealism, instead. You literally can choose whatever factor you want from works about Romans. Rome was a complex society, it will always have parallels with current states and policies.

>>1825533
I could fuck crying to Death Cab for Cutie instead if that makes you happy

File: grammar-nazi-meta.png (64KB, 2400x2400px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 2400x2400px

>>1825592
are you off your meds? I don't understand a word you are saying. Fix your grammar faggot!

>>1825586
>done right
I think he means like, with an actual lady

>>1825587
you made a fair point. Perhaps it is nigh impossible to pinpoint any 1 factor that universally made Rome /trash/

>>1825595
Wow not even Death Cab for Cutie?

How about Sufjan Stevens?

File: 1476065279070.jpg (6KB, 280x180px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 280x180px

>>1825597
>not wanting a lady to dick you

>>1825604
I'm a layman, I really don't get these references you are putting forward.

>>1825602
>1 factor that universally made Rome /trash/
If you really want to nail it down to one thing, it's probably the humans.

File: Sad-Girl-Ugly-Women-and-Girls.gif (561KB, 400x265px) Image search: [Google]

561KB, 400x265px

>>1825597
Why you homophobic, cis-gendered transphobic xir! How dare you identify xem like tht!

>>1825611
More specific, the Jews.

File: HellSpawn3.jpg (51KB, 736x566px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 736x566px

>>1825611
I'm guessing you are a misanthrope also? Because I absolutely agree that if it were not for the humans, society would be perfect.

File: Metal-Trends-Blog-6.jpg (143KB, 1280x1040px) Image search: [Google]

143KB, 1280x1040px

>>1825609
>I'm a layman, I really don't get these references you are putting forward.

>>1825629
Just pragmatic.

One feature universal to every failed empire of the post-antediluvian epoch in which we live is that it was always the goddamn humans who just couldn't handle it, and fucked it up, and everyone decided some other, equally retarded system.

>>1825339

so much this

>>1825651
I'm still don't get it.