Why weren't Vikings successful in creating real empire,

>>1819159

Look at all those areas highlighted in red. There are barely any people there. An empire requires a certain population density to qualify as an empire.

>>1819159
Nords lived in an area of the globe that literally slowly takes away all of your energy its a miracle nords managed to establish civilizations in those frozen hellholes they came from. So naturally nords were less about expanding and more about just trying to survive.

Because Viking is a term for Norse pirates and raiders.

And Norse is an ethnicity.

>>1819159
Because Vikings were just pirates, not unified in any way besides culture and language

>>1819159

They've never founded Novgorod or any other city in modern-day Russia.

>>1819166
True.At it's height, Novgorod housed 3.2 million people within it's walls, and this is the 16th century we're talking about.

>>1819171
>that literally slowly takes away all of your energy
Only if you aren't white. kek

>>1819219
Do you know how thermodynamics works anon? Cold air and cold ground sucks the heat out of your body depending on how cold it is this can kill you quickly by depriving your body the energy it needs to work heat from metabolic activity in your cells, this is the main reason you can have shitload of life in deserts yet fucking nothing in icy worlds because life needs energy to thrive.

>>1819159
>he hasn't heard of the Kalmar union.

they owned everything in that "Viking empire" save for the Canadian and Russian bits.

>>1819159
Cauz there subhumans

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>>1819214
>Novgorod housed 3.2 million people within it's walls

>>1819214
Kill yourself, Russian cuck.

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>>1819159
>Skane part of Sweden
>Norway doesn't have Jamtland and Bohuslan
>Schleswig-Holstein border looks like the one from 1920

I get this is fictional, but those borders being the same as the modern ones is ridiculous. They should have continued the ones from the Middle Ages or made some strange new ones.

>>1819159
russia and britain are not empires?

>>1819159
There were shit

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>>1819355
>>1819786
your English is improving, Luigi!
keep it up

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>>1819819
delusional nordcuck

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>>1819967
>implying Egyptians are Romans

>>1819487
You're welcome to double-check everything I've even written, at it's peak, it was one of the most populous cities in the known world.

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>>1820105
Alpha amount of confidence, namefag

>>1819159
>Empires are good meme
Stop.

Historical significance != good.

>>1820121
Then do so and refute me, colonial.

>>1820120
>At the time of annexation, Novgorod became the third largest city under Muscovy (with 5,300 homesteads and 25–30 thousand inhabitants in the 1550s

>>1820180
I'm not him, i just felt compelled to tell you i admire your confidence

>>1819159
does that say 1771 at the top or is it just a really shitty font

>>1819214
If Novgorod had 3.2 mill in the 1500s, it would be, on it's own, comparable to the entire population of England and Wales at the time. It would house 1/5 the entire population of Russia at the time. If it only maintained it's population, it would be the 3rd largest city in modern Russia, comparable in size to Madrid.

Obviously it wasn't but you never know with Russians though, he might actually believe that shit.

>>1819187
>not unified in any way besides culture and language
those are the strongest unifications.
>>1819159
Empire building requires a certain degree of administration or power.
Either you wipe out those who are unruly (Empire of dust) or you pacify those who are unruly (Most Empires follow this model) The Romans had both and they essentially wrote the book.

The vikings, though unified in a strong way but a way that is easily recognized by political theorists in a meaningful way, just didn't have the military capacity (Rome was a monster on the battlefield) nor the administrative capacity to rule better than the native rulers.

They were also by nature not interested in building a lasting Empire, or they were just really stupid.

Systemic raids don't go well for pacifying a population and if you can't pacify it then you must conquer it (Rome did this, Machiavelli later gave the reason why it worked).

Also, raiders don't usually have the thought of sticking around floating in their heads, more of a get in get out mentality.

Essentially they didn't have the tools nor the will to create an Empire.

>>1820213
What if Russians found mass-cloning tech from the Hyperwar and managed to keep it secret?

It would explain a few things

>>1820213
I guess you're right, the 3.2 million was the overall population of the state of Novgorod, not the actual city.

>>1820186
That is only after Ivan's men sacked the city, 60.000 people were killed, most casualties were members of the lower and middle class, the nobles and wealthier merchants were transported to Moscow.

>>1820190
In that case, thanks.

>>1820432
>That is only after Ivan's men sacked the city, 60.000 people were killed
30 000 + 60 000 = ?

>>1820447
As I've said before, I've mistranslated and confused the overall population of the Novgorod state and the actual city, German takes on later Russian history are surprisingly precise.

>make thread about viking
>slavs have to fucking derail it to talk about russia

Fuck off svetovid, your the worst cancer on here.

>>1820524
Literal takes* .

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Why weren't Austronesians successful in creating real empire, despite conquering half of known world?

>>1820544
The map encompasses Novgorod.

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>>1819214
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_throughout_history

>>1819159
Canute's North Sea Empire

>>1820562
And this has something to do with OP why?
>Asks question about vikings, posting some fictional map
>answer is about russians

>>1819214
>They've never founded Novgorod or any other city in modern-day Russia.
The fuck does this have to do even with op's question or image?
A viking did take over the city and the baltic coast was under swedish control for awhile and always had finns making up a massive amount of its population until the 20th century

Are you seriously that much of a russoboo that you try to find ways to inject russia discussions into threads?

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>be slavic
>unironically believe there was 3.5 million people in the entire nation of nogorod

I'd be shocked if was the total number of people who lived and died there in it's entire life span, let alone at once.

>>1820432
>the 3.2 million was the overall population of the state of Novgorod

no you are not getting out of this without a credible source when at the height of the byzantine empire, it had around 12 million

>>1820767
>>1820668
I've already said that I've mistranslated something from a German book,I've merely confused the overall population of the state of Novgorod with the city's inhabitants.

>>1820748
> find ways to inject Russia discussions into threads

Yes, because it annoys most of you.

>>1819172
>Viking
>pirates and raiders
You can't be this stupid

>>1820788
>Yes, because it annoys most of you.
it annoys most of us because you literally shit every thread you walk into with retarded arguments that derail the entire thread and turn it into a slav thread
if pretending to be retarded is what gets you on then reddit might be the option for you

>>1820788
Thanks for confirming your just a shitposter faggot.

>>1820786
They've avoided the Mongol-led genocide and their numbers were considerably bolstered by the arrival of refugees from Ryazan, Kolomna, Moscow, Vladimir, and Kiev.

sources:Lord Novgorod the Great, by Henrik Birnbaum

A History of Russia
by Nicholas V. Riasanovsky, Mark D. Steinberg

Skrynnikov and Hugh F. Graham. Ivan the Terrible

Crummey, The Formation of Muscovy, 1304-1613

>>1820801
>>1820810

It's a matter of reciprocity, most of you write absolute shit, unironically, If I may add.I feel it as my moral obligation to respond with even more shit, knowing that all of you will lose your composure and resort to posting memes and other exemplary fruits of American internet culture.

>>1819159
(Despite conquering mostly frozen wastelands)
As soon as they had any organized resistance to fight they lost.

>>1820866
>I pretend to be retarded because you're all retarded D:<
I guess that explains why you seriously debate half the retarded claims you make

>>1820835
how about quotes and citations? are you expecting to just get away with random names of books? is this how they teach you to quote in slav schools?

>>1820866
>I feel it as my moral obligation to respond with even more shit

Honestly, I'm not surprised

>>1819159
because they were never ruled by one king...

>>1820788
>I've already said that I've mistranslated something from a German book
And they're helping you put an order of magnitude on this shit so you don't embarrass yourself with implausible mistranslations in the future. If you can claim that 3+ million people lived within the walls of a premodern city without choking back your laughter, you're a moron.
You're like those guys who translate one of the Japanese words for "myriads" as literally hundreds of billions because their brains weren't turned on.

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>>1819171
Yes Denmark is such a frozen wasteland right?

>>1821000
True, should've done better.

>>1820902
>are you expecting to just get away with random names of books?

You wants pages I presume?

>>1821148
or direct quotes, excerpts or anything alike

>>1819171
>Nords
Like from Skyrim?

>>1821196
Give me some time, then.

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>>1819159
Is all of /his/ retarded?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Empire#

>>1819159
>despite conquering half of known world
Do people believe this?

>>1821305
the region now has 1,2 million....100 years ago 90k
no way it was over 3 million once, not possible at all

>>1821340
Americans do.

>>1821412
Anyone who would think the "Vikings" conquered a vast and sprawling empire would not think to use the phrase "the known world".

Plus I'm a martshart myself so obviously you're not completely right.

>>1821356
Kiev had over 100k at the height of Rus, I could see Novgorod having several hundred thousand some time in the late Medieval period.

But 3.2 mil is definitely wrong. Kievan Rus had maybe 1 million total, MAYBE.

>>1821356
>>1821450

After the initial sack of Novgorod, the city and it's region fell into a steady decline which increased exponentially during the Times of Trouble, when the Swedes themselves have besieged and sacked Novgorod, taking many relics, treasures and captives and destroying countless villages and towns in the adjacent territories.That caused a compulsory migration to the south.

>>1821196
A History of Russia
by Nicholas V. Riasanovsky, Mark D. Steinberg

Pages that are referring to Novgorod: 88, 89 and 90( during Igor's rule), 91(briefly on their "democracy"), 135, 136, 137 and 138(the period when they've received a massive number of refugees which've bolstered their numbers, mainly from Moscow, Ryazan, Vladimir and Kiev), 245, 246(on the effects of the Black Death and how it affected the North of Russia), 312 and 313(this particular page contains the most direct reference to their 16th century numbers, a quote of Ivan IV: "We(Muscovy) have rallied Russia and liberated it from Mongol Yoke, yet the other cities look to Novgorod for guidance, them who have more numbers than the rest of us(Russians), but have never used them against them Mongols" .

>>1820880
Half of them are over-embellished for argumentative purposes only, but a good number of them are legitimate.

>>1820120
m8, Rome at its peak had around one million residents, this wasn't surpassed until London overtook it some time in the 19th century.

>>1821544
Read the rest of the discussion, I've made a mistake in translating German data.

>>1819172
Norse is a culture.

Scandinavian is an ethnicity.

Finns are nordic, but not Scandi.

Estonians are finns but not nordic.

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>>1819983

>>1819967
They look like me desu.

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>>1819159
>despite conquering half of known world