Was post-Stalin Soviet Union really all as horrible as the West

Of course not. But that doesn't mean it was good.

>>1803669
Naw, don't buy into western propaganda
But don't think for a second the SU was all perfect

>>1803669

It was worse. Western media is in the hands of the same people that lead the communist revolution in Russia so you won't hear that.

The Soviet Union was literally the worst thing that happened in recorded history

>>1803669
Things did improve after Stalin, with the peak of living standards being during the beginning and middle of the Brezhnev era, with the stagnation towards his final years starting to bite into the people.

People were still arrested, but at this point the laws were spelled out and people knew what they were being arrested for unlike Stalin's more arbitrary arrests.

but overall there was a roof over peoples heads and reliable food on the table. the huge bread lines you see in photos is all from the late 1980's, just prior to the collapse.

tl;dr: of course it was better than stalin, but it still wasn't a walk through candy-land either.

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>>1803669

It was pretty bad although, like everything, it had it's shining moments especially in specific fields they put their energy into like aviation, sport, and space exploration.

To this day if you look at cumulative Olympic medal results, or World chess competition results, or space exploration milestones and records, the USSR is a colossus.

It was shit if you consider life shitty if you can't buy a car or a TV or a toaster oven (right away).

It was good if you consider having a job you can half ass without worry about being fired and end up homeless good.

[COLAPSE]

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>>1803669
I was raised by soviet parents; they generally say that there were two soviet unions - some people were better off, some were worse off. Obviously, depending on the aim, a propagandist will support one side over the other, like a proud American points to New York riches or something instead of West Virginia poverty.

They do miss it though. The best thing about it was that they had something to look forward to, something to work towards, something to believe in. Tarkovsky (soviet director) wrote once that "Man is not made for happiness, there are things more important than happiness." This comes to mind a lot when I think about Russia/USSR.

>>1803669
The average Soviet citizen was behind a middle class American in some ways, but life in the Soviet Union after 1953 was nowhere near as bad as it's often painted out to be. Famine was gone a few years before Stalin died, and while most people couldn't get exotic foods like bananas or fruits out of season, almost everyone was guaranteed to have a decent amount of food. The exception was with inmates of the GULAG system, who at this point represented a tiny fraction of the population, mostly there for common crimes rather than political ones. While housing was somewhat small, homelessness was almost nonexistent. Everyone had a job, receiving a small but constant income. Healthcare and education were both universal. Life expectancy at one point exceeded that of the USA, though the healthcare system eventually became strained due to increased alcohol consumption and economic issues in the mid to late 1970s.
I have relatives who visited the USSR in the 60s and 70s. Apparently Leningrad was a gorgeous city with well-preserved historic areas and architecture and very accessible museums with impressive art collections. Beyond the main streets, it was still visible that most people lived in small, rather crowded apartments.
Overall, living conditions were somewhat modest and some consumer goods were scarce, but services like education and healthcare were widely available.
tl;dr not luxurious but livable. many people old enough to remember are nostalgic

>>1808165
>have relatives who visited the USSR in the 60s and 70s.
Interesting. I assume you're from Finland (or one of those non nato countries)?

>>1808186
No. USA. There was a surprising amount of tourism in the USSR apparently.

>>1808190
From what I remember Krushev opened the country for a brief time then Brezhnev nixed the more open attitude as soon as he got to power.

>>1803669
You didn't have Pizza Hut or the latest Transformers toy, but you were guaranteed to have a home and be at least somewhat educated.

A good chunk of Russians today can't afford any of the above.

>>1808165
>The exception was with inmates of the GULAG system, who at this point represented a tiny fraction of the population
Because they all fucking died

>>1808205
Death rates in the GULAG fell after WWII. After Stalin died, Khrushchev started granting amnesty to many of the GULAG inmates. Between 1953 and 1956 (year of Khrushchev's secret speech), large numbers of inmates were officially rehabilitated, released, or pardoned, and the penal system never again became the monster it had been.

Horrible in what way? Most of the starvation and purging was over by the time Stalin died, but if your definition of being good is "the government isn't purging people and nobody is starving to death" then it says a lot about your expectations for the country. So no, it wasn't a wracked by famine and the people weren't being rounded up and Gulag'd en masse anymore, so the western media did exaggerate on that front.

It was by no means a free society though. Maybe Europeans wouldn't have any issues with life in the USSR from the 60s and 70s but almost any American would probably find it intolerable.

>>1805918
This desu, happiness makes up a small portion of our lives, working towards something fills in the rest.

>>1804504
>and reliable food on the table. and reliable food on the table. the huge bread lines you see in photos is all from the late 1980's, just prior to the collapse.
Objectively false. The food shortages began in the early 1970's.

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They made some stupid policies, there was this one project that accidentally dried up the 4th largest lake in the world in an attempt to irrigate the surrounding area, which failed, and now the area which had once been prosperous is now a desert and suffering incredible poverty and pollution

>>1803669
Not exactly a fun life, with breadlines and all. But at least you were guaranteed food, shelter, and employment, and Soviet cultural (not religious) policy was actually conservative and degenerate-free even by 1950's American standards.

>>1808702
[proofs needed]

>>1808704
>muh cotton exports

>>1808716
just google "soviet union, grain and oil"

Stalin's collectivization collapsed grain production. Grain production didn't stabilize until the 1960s. When it did it was at a fraction of the pre communist era.

Stalin and other leaders urbanization policies lead to huge growing populations in the cities. Which could not be fed by Soviet farming alone. So they had to export oil and gas to the capitalists. To be able to import grains to feed their own people. the oil crisis of the 1970s bouyed them for a bit. Then the late 1980's Oil Glut killed him.

>>1804468
t. Adolf Hitler

>>1804468
That's actually gommumist china.

Soviet Union is a solid second tho

>>1804504
>People were still arrested, but at this point the laws were spelled out and people knew what they were being arrested for unlike Stalin's more arbitrary arrests.
There was a bit more to it than just arbitrary laws, the general brutal atmosphere and the fact that you could be punished for not being zealous enough created the phenomenon of Stukachestvo (snitching) during the Terror years. It wasn't just that you'd be punished arbitrary, the problem was your neighbors could say anything about you and nobody would bother researching or checking if you really are traitor to the party, you'd just be send in a gulag.

That was pretty much gone past Stalin's days to an extent that concept of "kitchen dissident" is fondly remembered by people who lived through that period. You could say whatever the fuck you wanted as long as you are doing it in home environment and people wouldn't snitch because they've been talking shit as well and not like government cared much. Paranoia period was gone.


On a semi related note, North Korea employed a system of extremely heavy state approved snitching and citizen surveillance all the way to mid 90s and it's still active to this day, just not as efficient. Every building would get a dedicated old lady whos job was to watch and snitch on people or collect the info from other people.
This system is apparently why they've lasted so long while other soviet countries failed through 90s but apparently it's also falling apart now.