Did Pan-slavism ever have any chance to succeed beyond uniting

>>1785386

It happened. It was called COMECON.

>>1785386
Nope

Catholic-Orthodox division is at fault, anyway Poles, Croats, Slovenes, Slovaks, and Czech should have converted to Orthodoxy and formed national churches instead of following the globalist footlicking popes.

>>1785386
Nobody wants to abide to subhuman Serbs and Russians.

>>1785932
This, when the front Czech panslavist went to Russia to gather support for the cause, he started to hate Russians and said "I went to Russia as a slav, and returned home as a Czech"

>>1785899
But then their Churches would have been run by KGB like in Russia.

>>1785954
>But then their Churches would have been run by KGB like in Russia.

Implying
Russian Church has a long history of fighting the commies and being murdered by them, they didn't yield to the commies only the puppets placed by them yielded to them.

And at least their churches would defend their people, and not serving a foreign globalist power like Vatican.

>>1785899
>Claim to be only true religion.
>Wants to divide religion via nationality
Christcucks everyone.

>>1785979
>Being nationalist is being a cuck
Your beard is showing achmed al /his/tori

>>1785983
Claiming to be a universalist religion & being a nationalist is contradictory. You can't be both.

>>1785899
>anyway Poles, Croats, Slovenes, Slovaks, and Czech should have converted to Orthodoxy
All you listed use Latin and are Catholic since forever.

>>1785899
>be Catholic.
>be invaded by steppeniggers or muslims.
>An international relief force will fight by your side.

>be Orthodox
>Invaded by aforementioned groups.
>nobody comes to your aid.
>Have a good chance to be subject to foreign powers like Russia or Byzantines.

Not really. First of all they would have needed the cooperation of the two main Slav peoples: Poles and Russians. But there are sooooo many differences between them (catholic/orthodox, western/eastern, etc)

>>1786009
Christianity never claimed to be universal, universalism is an atheistic-humanistic concept, Christianity call to make disciples around the world not to form a mongrel super-state.

Also borders and nations are seen as sacred in Christianity.


>From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

>>1786059
>Christianity never claimed to be universal
>"There is only one god, who created heaven and earth."
Preeeetty universal claim.
>Also borders and nations are seen as sacred in Christianity.
The unification of all those under Christianity was the appointed mission of Christians.

So no, you can't be Christian and Nationalist. Nationalism is almost a religion whose god is the nation and at times, also as nebulous.

>>1786102
>Croatia
Didn't exist. Part of the Kingdom of Hungary.

>>1786102
>The Catholic church did nothing to protect Poland when the Teutonic
HAHAHAHAHA THE TEUTONIC KNIGHTS' SUCCESSORS CONVERTED TO PROTESTANTISM DUE TO THE PAPACY ALWAYS TAKING POLAND'S SIDE.

>>1786030
No one arrived to aid Bosnia, or Croatia for that matter.The Catholic church did nothing to protect Poland when the Teutonic Order began to assault her cities, neither has she protested against the Partitions of Poland.

>>1785954
Absolutely, even though the clergy was decimated and many churches destroyed by the Bolsheviks?

>>1786026
Croats and Slovenes have used "Glagolitic" all up until the 18th century.

>>1786058
Differences between Slavs are negligible at best, the only true problem is historical revanchism.

>>1785932
Highly unlikely, considering that Serbs are well liked in most Slavic countries, with the exception of Bosnia and Croatia.Russians are only subhuman to those that have had their plans thwarted by them at some point in their history.

>>1785953
He only said that when he saw that serfs still exist in Russia in large numbers and are being denied freedom.

>>1785386 (OP)
It still has a chance, it's a relatively popular idea among Slavs and it'll continue being so as long as there is oppression aimed at Slavs.

>>1786102
>Croats and Slovenes have used "Glagolitic" all up until the 18th century.
The first text in Slovene known today was written in Carolingian minuscule, followed with gothic, bohoričica and finally gajica.

>It still has a chance, it's a relatively popular idea among Slavs and it'll continue being so as long as there is oppression aimed at Slavs.
I don't know where you got this idea.

To call Czechoslovakia a product of pan-Slavism is to dilute the term beyond any meaningful use. It was the product of a calculated decision on the part of the Czechs to create an artificial nationality with anyone weak enough not to oppose it/actively wanting to partake in the same. With the explicit goal to outweigh a German presence.

>>1786124
Isn't ´Panslavism in practice death among Catholic Slavs?
The close Czechs and Slovaks parted as long as they could, Poland do (in my experience) view Russia as a bigger foe than they do Germany and Croats and Slovenians seem happy just being independent.

>>1786109
She was a part of a personal union with Hungary, internally self-ruled, while accepting Hungarian kings as their own.

She was even awarded with this :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antemurale_Christianitatis

>THE TEUTONIC KNIGHTS' SUCCESSORS CONVERTED TO PROTESTANTISM DUE TO THE PAPACY ALWAYS TAKING POLAND'S SIDE

We're not talking of their successors and for the record, the Papacy ordering them to stop attacking Catholics isn't the same as actually taking Poland's side.

>>1786124
>He only said that when he saw that serfs still exist in Russia in large numbers and are being denied freedom.
"Only" lel
he also stated that any sort of union based on the shared origins of a language is stupid, and that above all else it ought to be political goals that should unite people - this is for example why he looked towards the southern nations in the monarchy rather than russia

>>1786124
>It still has a chance, it's a relatively popular idea among Slavs and it'll continue being so as long as there is oppression aimed at Slavs.

hahaha oh wow you are serious

>>1786142
He's a Bosnian namefag so his views are a bit skewed.

>>1786128
You're right, The Glagolitic alphabet was preserved only by the Croats, using it from the 12th to the 20th century, mostly in liturgy.

>I don't know where you got this idea

From actually communicating with various other Slavic people, even Croats, who're greatest German collared bitches in Europe.

>>1786132
The dissolution of Czechoslovakia was largely illegal, the political elites of both countries have agreed on it, in a September 1992 poll, only 37% of Slovaks and 36% of Czechs favored dissolution.

> Poland do (in my experience) view Russia as a bigger foe than they do Germany

They hate them equally, but if they had one bullet and a Russian and German to shoot at, they'll shoot the German and throw the gun at the Russian.

>and Croats and Slovenians seem happy just being independent

Slovenians do, but Croats are gullible and self-loathing maggots who'd endure all kind of defamation and humiliation just to please Germans and Austrians, it's really pathetic.

>>1786141
He also stated that they'll need the support of Russia if they'd ever get to that level where they'd have to fight for their independence.

>>1786142
>>1786146

I am, because I'm actually Slavic and I've spoken to many members of other Slavic people about this subject, only the Poles were reluctant, but only because of recent history with Russia.For the record, your view as a non-Slav would be skewed, because you have no proper contact with Slavs and you're raised to believe to Pan-Slavism is vile because it initiated the dissolution of the Old World Order in Europe.You Westerners, mainly the Germans and the Austrians have yourselves to blame for it's existence, not us.

>>1786158
>They hate them equally, but if they had one bullet and a Russian and German to shoot at, they'll shoot the German and throw the gun at the Russian.
What do you have to support that? What I got points to the contriary.
http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/257933,Germany-is-Polands-best-EU-ally-poll

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/19/anti-russian-views-on-the-rise-in-poland/

>>1786171
>Been raised to
Do people really care about panslavism?
I don't remember there being much at all said about Pan slavism in my country's education apart from it being some political movement, even less said in popular culture.

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>>1786158
>>1786171
>I'm actually Slavic
So am I and I can tell you that you southerners are the only ones wanting another union. The only thing it did was pull us back.

>>1786180
No, it's something mentioned in school and shouted about by a few middle-aged nobodies.

>>1786180
to add, do anyone else here have any experience of Pan Slavism getting negative attention in their countries?

And how are you sure it was a nonslav and not a Pole or Czech talking?

>>1786187
>Pan Slavism getting negative attention
That's what lead to our independence war

>>1786199
"our" as in who?
And that don't quite answer the question, if that's what you tried to do.

>>1786203
The Slovene Ten day war. If it was like the Bosnian stated - that we were all about pan-slavism - we wouldn't fight a war for our independence.

>Panslavism is more popular in poorer Slavic countries, than well off Slavic countries

hmmm

>>1786173
You're sorely misled if you believe that an untraceable poll can change their opinion of Germans, especially when you consider what they've done to the Poles in World War II and how they're generally treated in Germany.

>>1786180
Austrians, Germans and Hungarians certainly do, especially those in nationalist circles.

>>1785386
If Russians used it as pretext for expansion as they did with communism, then yes.

If you talk about somewhat spontaneous unification akin to Italy, then hell no.

>>1786208
Allright, so do you have experience of Pan Slavism getting negative attention in your country?
Because you greentexted that so I thought your post was an answer to that.

>>1786217
So you got no sources at all for yourself?

>>1786184
The wholesome development of your entire industry was supervised during Yugoslavia, not before or after, it certainly didn't pull you back.

Before you start howling, the Austrians did allow you some modicum of industrialization, but during Yugoslavia you've achieved an unprecedented and clearly favorable level of development.You were always the most developed part of Yugoslavia, but you're sorely misled if you believe that it was"pulling you back".

>>1786217
And your own personal meetings with Slavs won't undo some fifty years of Communism.

>>1786223
I've meant to say that the article has no links to that alleged poll of theirs.

>>1786220
Not today since we are independent but Yugoslavia (a pan-slavic federation) was the negative experience that led to the war and our independence.

>>1786236
Most importantly, it was the fault socialist system but also the policies that led to the poor and illiterate republics getting more resources to make us all "equal". We are on par with Spain or Portugal today when we could've been much better off.

>>1786240
They certainly won't, but it would've never come to Communism if it weren't for the German government which financed and supported it in Russia and the Americans and the British who've traded you off for Western Germany, during Yalta.

>>1786251
And it would never have come to Germany if Russia had not beaten off Napoleon:^)
>You
?

>>1786246
>Not today since we are independent but Yugoslavia (a pan-Slavic federation) was the negative experience that led to the war and our independence

And an "experience" which led to the development of most your high-quality industry, you would've remained an Austrian retirement resort if it weren't your voluntary joining of Yugoslavia, you would've been Germanized and the notion of a Slovene nation would've become obsolete.You weren't forced to participate, it seems you've forgotten that.

>>1786246
The Source seems to be this newspapper but I can't speak Polish so I will just drop this here/leave walk over or whatever.
http://www.rp.pl/Polityka/306199940-Sondaz-Sojusznicy-Polski-Niemcy-i-Wegrzy.html#ap-1

>>1786171
>He also stated that they'll need the support of Russia if they'd ever get to that level where they'd have to fight for their independence.
he literally stated that there would be no help from abroad (that is, russia), nor should the bohemian nationalists look for it in russia (after his experience), and that political solutions will only be found within the monarchy
stop pulling BS out of your ass you deluded slavaboo

>>1786171
>only the Poles were reluctant
Yes I'm sure someone like the Czechs are just itching to hop into bed with the likes of Russia or Serbia. Stop with this nonsense, or at least keep it contained in the wet dreams of Russians or weirdo Balkan Russophiles.

>>1786262
It still would've come to the development of an ideology based on class struggle, considering all the undocumented and widespread mistreatment which workers all across Europe have endured, but it's proponents would've probably never used as a weapon against a political rival.

>>1786271
Your'e talking about Communism or Germany here? Because I talked about Germany not being formed without Russia and you seem to talk about Communism, though I admit not being very clear about what I meant.

>>1786263
Oh please, we already had industrialists building factories here before the creation of Yugoslavia and if anything, capitalism would bring in more money and development. We were on course to becoming a Serbian colony and they were trying to do the same shit they did in Croatia but they were stopped.

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ITT: butthurt pan-slavist niggers and Svetovid autist chimping out because Poles don't like russian scum.

>>1786266
Seeing them as a beneficial partner of their country doesn't mean they'll start liking them and forgetting what they've done to them not so long ago.

>>1786266
Which turned out to be categorically false, given how the Austrians have reacted on the idea, especially with the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867, support for mass Magyarization of Slovaks, Croats and Moravians and temporary internment of Czech, Slovene and Croatian officers in the army.

>>1786267
"Reluctant", as in reluctant to speak fondly of it, I've never implied that anyone had planned to immediately hop into bed with Russians and Serbs.

>Stop with this nonsense

You talk like a colonial, I bet you don't even know the difference between Bohemians and Czechs, let alone anything else for that matter, given how "weirdo" Balkan "Russophiles" exist because Russia was the only power which was willing and successful in it's attempt to liberate most of them from Ottoman yoke.

>>1786289
What about this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Greater_Austria

>>1786289
>Ottoman yoke
this matters
>"Soviet" yoke
doesn't matter, water under the bridge

bit funny

>>1786301
>being brutally raped in a back alley is the same as having drunken sex after a nice meal that you begin to regret in the morning

>>1786306
did you just victim blame me?

>>1785386
Pan-slavism was a Russian scham to expand it's influence, borders and ports when the western support for the turds was at its peak.

>>1786277
It goes hand to hand, considering that Germany has financed the rise Bolshevism in order to secure the Eastern Front, while Communism would've developed itself naturally, even without Germany's existence, due to the deplorable state of worker's right in early and late industrial Europe.

>>1786281
"Oh please" what?The only thing you could build on your own were minor industries, certainly of lesser quality and size than what you've been given the chance to accomplish with Yugoslavia' natural resources, which mainly came from Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.

>capitalism would bring in more money and development

True, but you seem to have forgotten that you were considered a mere province in Austria, hence you receiving the first political, administrative and economic reforms of the Hapsburg rulers Maria Theresa of Austria and Joseph II, who've improved the economic situation of the peasantry, and were well received by the emerging bourgeoisie, which was however still weak.Your industry began to develop for the first time in the early 19th century, which is quite deplorable in comparison to Austrian, Bohemian and Italian parts of the Empire.If you've followed that tempo without joining Yugoslavia, you would've been significantly worse off.

>>1786288
The moment when some who has a high probability of having actual "Nigger" blood in his veins calls someone else Nigger, priceless.

>chimping out

Having an argument is the same as "chimping out", this thinking is the reason why you have weekly school-shootings.

>>1786301
>russians = commies
t. Hollywood

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>>1785386
Poor, warmongering, genocidal, obnoxiously agressive, uncivilized, soulless nation suffering eternal identity crisis(first they stole the Kievan Rus' history, then they defeated and subjugated another important Rus' cultural centre - Novgorod, claimed to be the "Third Rome", then tried to establish themselves as a proper European state copying the Western art and developements, then realizing how multicultural and diverse is their state they came up with """"USSR"""" abandoning their former flag and culture, after it's pathetic fall they are again lost and clueless so they sperg out). Collectivist minded and servile society with no regard to human life. They don't care about their personal wealth, freedom etc as long as Mother Russia and the Tsar is fine. They lack empathy, incapable of establishing a friendly relations on equal terms. Apart from Moscow and St Petersburg and some oil regions Russia is extremely poor and undeveloped - as the Russians are incapable of producing anything sophisticated almost the entire wealth of the country comes from it's natural resources. Except for the art and architecture directly derived either from the Greeks(all the Orthodox architecture they have horribly bastardized, icons) or Westerners(these fancy palaces in St. Petersburg) they barely have contributed to the culture at all. Considering a very large population their scientific contribution is utterly underwhelming, vastly inferior compared to the Western Slavs. Entire society is subjected to brainwashing propaganda blaming the Americans for everything, making them praise their Tsar Putin and support all the vicious acts of violence and terror. They can't even into geopolitics - Russia still pretends it's 19th century and the best way for the state to succeed is to be egoistic, xenophobic, expansive, imperialistic, overly-nationalistic and authoritarian. Russia is the true cancer of humanity and I sincerely hope it breaks apart as soon as possible.

>>1786289
>I bet you don't even know the difference between Bohemians and Czechs
I am Czech you deluded worshipper of Muscovite penis.

>>1786318
Yeah, and Germany would never have been able to support Bolshevism in Russia if Russia hadn't defeated Napoleon and allowed the Prussians to regain their former power as well as let the Duchy of Warzaw fall under foreign rule.

>>1786328
Fantastic post.

Fuck the russian niggers.(not literally, you might get AIDS)

>>1786328
>this BTFOs the vatnik

>>1786293
A good idea, but the Austrians and Hungarians would never accepted it, the moment he'd leave the throne or pass it on to someone else, they'd do all they can to revert it.

>>1786301
You know what's funny, not reading the part where I've mentioned why it even happened in the first place.The Soviets would've never taken control over most of Eastern Europe if it weren't for the Americans and the British who've given them the green light to do so in return for the right to keep Western Germany.

>>1786328
You have the right to your own opinion.

>>1786333
In what way?I'd like to see you form a coherent argument which isn't infested by shit-tier /pol/ memes.

>>1786335

If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike

>>1786329
But as I've said, Communism would've still been conceived, and it would've manifested itself differently.

>>1786341
It's not a case of "could've would've", the Austrians and Hungarians have a long history of repressing the political rights of Slavs, hence the 1867 Compromise, it's a fact.

>>1786339
>>1786342
stop sucking russian dick so much.
they were always violent monkeys without their own culture.

being in the same country with those inbred, genetic mongol trash with speech impediment is the worst thing that can happen.

only a stupid fuck would support pan-slavism, which is a fake shit to justify russian imperialism.

>>1786345

If someone gives you half a neighbourhood, it doesn't mean you should trash it and set it on fire

>>1786346
I have my own opinion, you have yours and I don't suck "Russian cock", I'm acknowledging the fact that their 19th and 20th century contributions to territorial and political emancipation of Slavs are one of the main reasons why they've succeeded in the first place.

>>1786342
Yes, and how is that relevant to the argument?
My logic goes that if you can blame the USSR's illdoings on the Germans sending Lenin, then you can blame the Germans sending Lenin on Russia defeating Napoleon.
I don't see what communism's eventual creation got to do with that.

>>1786352
Retard, no one was doing any "thrashing", they've simply asked for more rights because they've earned them by being loyal and contributing members of their society, the independence movements were a response to repression, not a result of a sudden desire for secession.

>>1786362
Relevant to the argument because it most likely would've never been used as a tool of subjugation

>>1786367
Remember that time Brits deposed de Gaulle for more rights? He was a good friend.

>>1786360
The fuck. Russian contribution? Aby specifické moments or events or just plain Russian propaganda from aeronet?

>>1786390
Simply incomparable.

>>1786362
> blame the USSR's illdoings on the Germans sending Lenin, then you can blame the Germans sending Lenin on Russia defeating Napoleon

No you can't, because the Germans have deliberately done that, while the Russians had to defend themselves from Napoleon, to whom they're previously offered joint rule over all of Europe, which is politely refused in his own way.

>>1786403
Liberation of Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria and Romania during and after the Russo-Turkish war, initial diplomatic support for Yugoslav independence, mainly that of the state of Croats and Slovenes during and shortly before World War I.

>>1786246
What about the labour force and a sizeable market Slovenia had access to because of Yugoslavia? Not to mention, even after the dissolution.
Per capita, it was actually Serbia that got the largest share of the federal budget; but Slovenia had a great advantage in terms of investment in industry because during the late 40s and 1950s the development of its industry and infrastructure was privileged in the 5 year plans, because it was financially more viable to invest in existing proto-industry than to start out of nothing (as it was in poorer republics, which did not have the infrastructure needed).

>>1786424
Slovenians tend to ignore that, the more brazen ones'll probably call it propaganda.

>>1786428
I'm Slovenian too, but I actually do read historical statistics not just spout bullshit born out of collective amnesia.

>>1786432
That's why I've said "tend to", I know there are individuals who've delved deeper in the subject.

>>1786124
>He only said that when he saw that serfs still exist in Russia in large numbers and are being denied freedom.
Yeah, because Russia is a backwards freedom hating shithole, and he didn't want to be associated with them in any way

>>1786124
>Serbs are well liked in most Slavic countries, with the exception of Bosnia and Croatia
And Bulgaria. Pretty much every Slav country that borders them.

This may be a dumb question Svetovid, but do you consider the victory in world war 2 and the success in the space race as Russian achievements or not? And if you do, do you consider any atrocities done by the USSR at this time as Russian atrocities or not?

>>1787336
What about Macedonia and Montenegro?

It would be incompatible with the Russian Empire, besides, who would want to share a country with the Russians?

>>1787336
Bulgarians only dislike them, Macedonians and and the Montenegrin are somewhat fond of them.

>but do you consider the victory in world war 2 and the success in the space race as Russian achievements or not

Yes, because the men who've achieved were predominately of ethnic Russian descent.

>do you consider any atrocities done by the USSR at this time as Russian atrocities or not?

To some extent, yes.

>wanting to live in the same country as Serbs, let alone having one rule anything but his own noose
Only a delusional /pol/tard would be like that.

>>1787442
So you consider positive things Russian achievements but the crimes as only Russian "to an extend"?