What are some good books on Irish protestants, particularly in

>>1772294
>Ulster protestants
>Irish

>>1772294
Every book that a protestant has made has been filled with lies, just look at the the KJV Bible

>>1772677
>you can't be an ulsterman without being an irishman
t big ian

>>1772951
Yeah yeah paddy, I asked for some books, not your tears.

>>1772294
I feel compelled to post being that i fit that description OP but frankly any books I might recommend seem like the most boring books anyone could fucking read.

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>>1772294
>>1773340
Recommended by Ian Paisley Jr. himself!

>>1773466
>ask for some books
>butt blasted paddies start shitposting

Bet you're all bloody yanks too.

My degree specialisation was in early modern Irish history senpai. What aspect of Irish protestantism would you like books on? Their literature, their religion, their politics, etc.?

>>1773673
It was more just a general story of their history before 1912 really.

Just general shit, how they were viewed by England and Scotland, relationship with irish catholics, protestant republicans and how popular that grew amongst them, aristocracy, treatment in the british army, immigration to the new world.

>>1772951
>The bible is full of lies.

>t. Catholic

KING

BILLY'S

ON

THE

WALL

>>1773697
Alright cool, I'll dig out my old uni reading lists and see what I've got

Okay, some handy dandy tomes:

A New History of Ireland, Volume III: Early Modern Ireland 1534-1691, by T.W. Moody and F.X. Martin

Religion, Law and Power: the making of Protestant Ireland 1660-1760, by S.J. Connolly

Presbyterians and the Irish Language, by Roger Blaney

The Plantation of Ulster by Jonathon Bardon

>>1773673

they're creepy as fuck

>>1776463
>creepy

>>>/tumblr/

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>>1773732
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zvWbrv-CY

>Ulster Protestants
Disgusting.

Anyway OP, I'd go ahead and not suggest any books written by anyone that's actually from here, asides from if you're looking for an insight into how attitudes were.

Ulster Protestants are Nip-tier revisionists but the plantation of Ulster and all that is actually interesting as shit.

>>1777744
Wish the ass pained paddies would fuck off desu

>>1777748
He's not wrong, really. My history professor studied in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s and the amount of WE WUZ shit that was churned out by degree mill academics and sponsored by the government was worse than anything she'd ever seen, apparently. She said that Northern Irish Protestants had basically claimed to be everything. Israelites, Goths, Romans, Lion-people, the whole lot.

>>1777838
She's talking a whole load of shite.

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>>1777838
>>1777744
These guys are breddy much correct. Every history book purporting to give a history of Irish Protestants written by an Irish Protestant is always a treatise on how they secretly built Newgrange and the Rock of Cashel and originally came from Israel before the Gaels invaded in the 5th century and ruined everything.

these
>>1775674
are mostly pretty good. I personally don't like the way Francis Martin writes, I find his prose a bit hoighty toighty, but his history is good.

>>1777875
Come on mang, you'd have to have your neck buried pretty far in the sand not to admit that there was a massive push towards historical revisionism here in the Protestant community in the past

>>1772294
>Ulster Protestants
>Irish
O i am laffin

>>1777744
>>1777892
These two lads are correct. They've written some God awful books about themselves.

>>1778039
If any of you would like to name some, be my guest.

>>1778058
Ulster in the Viking age : A View to Conquest by Michael Shean, wherein the author claims that the ancestors of the British Protestants of Ulster defeated the Vikings who had joined forces with the rest of the Irish (who were, according to him, still pagan) and so Ulster saved European civilisation

Cruthin: The Ancient Kindred, Dalaradia, Kingdom of the Cruthin, Ulster People: Ancient, Medieval and Modern, Identity of Ulster, and many other books by Ian Adamson, who claims that Ireland was actually populated by an Israeli-British tribe called the Cruthin who built all of Ireland's greatest monuments and wrought her most famous treasures, but were overwhelmed by sheer numbers of Gaelic invaders. James I took sympathy on the plight of the Israeli-British Cruthin and granted them their home again, which took the form of the Ulster Plantation

The Irish Story: Telling Tales and Making It Up in Ireland by Roy Foster (a southerner whose works were quite popular in the north), claims that the Irish ethnicity and Irish language were invented in the 19th century

Read the 1973 Tara Declaration, where a bunch of bigwigs in the Ulster Paramilitary scene claimed that they were descended from a lost tribe of Israel and it gave them a God-sanctioned right to rule over Ireland

'Revisionist Scholarship and Modern Irish Politics' by Robert Perry is a good book if you're acutually interested in this sort of thing and not just trying to make an ideological poin

>>1777953
Very few Ulster Protestants would've identified as anything other than Irish until the 1920s. The Ulster Convention in 1892 was plastered in artwork of harps, shamrocks, designs from the Book of Kells, Celtic knotwork and Irish language slogans.

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Ulster has a great history, but people actually from Ulster who are Protestants are revisionists of the highest degree.

"Assblasted paddies" often know more about the history of Ulster Protestants than the prods do themselves, because many people here get republican leanings after studying history and realising how much utter shite they've been taught.

It's not just an assmad republican meme, you are literally taught a borderline fantasy-version of Ulster's history growing up, and without taking History at a further level or studying it yourself, that's the way it stays.

It's a pity because one of my favourite Irish figures, Máel Sechnaill Mac Domnaill is often forgotten about because of "Brian the killstealer Boru" and just because he's Irish ulster fags won't fucking talk about him.

They also like to ignore the massive amounts of anti-english rebellion that existed for a long time in the North.

But no.
If it isn't last year's 12th or 1690, Ulster-dwelling historians don't want to know, and would rather you didn't.

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>>1778242
>history teacher in 5th year was like the most mild mannered dude you could possibly imagine
>covering the Williamite Wars
>he makes an off-hand remark about how William of Orange wasn't that great of a general compared to his aptitude for statesmanship and delegated most battlefield duties to capable captains
>local hardcore prod in the class goes full REEEEEEEEEEE and starts full on screaming at the teacher, calling him a liar and telling him he would fight him
It was that sort of thing that turned me into a hardcore traditionalist Catholic

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>>1778300
>In class, prod mates going on about "fuck the pope, up King Billy!"
>Trainee teacher tells them that one of King "Billy's" greatest allies during his campaign was the pope who essentially funded him
>Awkward silence

>Sitting in class again
>They're talking about how the IRA in the troubles werejust memeraiding terrorists
>Trainee teacher pipes up again telling them about how Irish people in Ulster had shit all rights, were treated dreadfully and how by and large the troubles for them was about getting equal rights, not a United Ireland, despite the persona displayed by the militants
>He then tells them that it was actually the Loyalist militias that killed almost exclusively civilians, with the next non-combatant killer being the British and THEN the republican militias
>The IRA killed more of the IRA than the UDA did
>By the end of the day his name was scrawled on the whiteboard while the room was empty
>"MR WHITE IS A FUCKING FENIAN SCUM, NO SURRENDER SUFTUM"

Growing up here is a wild ride.

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The border is coming back by 2019, prepare for turbulence

>>1778376
>implying

If Brexit means a hard border will actually be enforced, the following are the most likely outcomes.

>IRA REEEEEEEEEEE a bit more but not even republicans really support them anymore so they just keep being terrorists like that have been since the late 90s
>More and more middle-fence Unionists lean toward republicanism because muh-fearmongering means that suddenly republicanism isn't this big scary radical change
>People realise that if the north joined the ROI, there wouldn't really be a conflict because the UDA/UVF would have utterly no support from Britain or most of the populace in NI as the UK says NI can leave whenever

Or, the most likely occurance

>Everything goes on as normal until the right-wing Unionist parties fail to adapt and evolve to attract younger voters and then the liberal fags in SDLP or Sinn Fein suddenly get hyper popular and it's all a bit complicated, Ireland is one state by the time we're all 50

>>1778191
Yes, and things change, Protestants in Ulster today are descendants of invaders from Britain, who are not loyal to Ireland

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WE

>>1778675
>Loyal

Evidently you have no idea about why anyone is Republican or Loyalist in NI.

The strength and unity of Modern Loyalism stemmed originally from the fear of being run by a Catholic Irish state from Dublin, as opposed to the Protestant British government in England.

Due to (obvious) tensions, the Unionists in the North saw themselves in a very vulnerable position and thus dug their heels in, stating that they will remain non-irish and non-catholic as some sort of Bulwark against the south.

Republicans stem from being trapped north of the border when it was essentially created, and then being stripped of rights and identity, reduced to a second class citizen livin gin a Protestant British dominated state.

Throughout and after the Troubles, the identity of Republicanism became one of attempting to gain an equal foothold in Ulster, as opposed to being the "weird little side note" they had been reduced to.

Loyalists still believe that Ulster being irish will strip them of their faith, their identity and their "culture" in much the same way they did to the Irish in Ulster, but they usually paint it as "Northern Irish republicans are all terrorists and we're fucked if they end up in charge."

This lends to the fear voting in Ireland, in which two parties-DUP for Loyalists and Sinn Fein for Republicans (both of which are a bit shit now)-dominated the political landscape as both sides are afraid of voting for other parties for fear of losing any real majority or foothold.

There isn't really any legitimate reason beyond the economical reasons-which in my opinion, as a republican, are plenty to stop it happening-for NI joining the ROI.

There are 12th July parades throughout the ROI, and in Scotland, and there's no reason they would stop if NI joined the ROI and beyond that protestant "culture" in NI is just poorly drawn murals and bickering about Irish shit.

>>1778427

People living along the border are hopping mad already, lots of people commute to work or have friends and relatives living on the other side of the imaginary line

>>1778733

>There are 12th July parades throughout the ROI,

There is only one in a tiny village in Donegal.

In my area there was an orange march in 1922, but the local hardmen attacked them as a mob and all the orangemen ran away leaving their drums behind. The drums were then painted green and used in the next St.Patricks day parade.

>>1778745
jej

>>1778745
There was one this year in Letterkenny.

My point is, if it can happen there it can happen anywhere.
Even in NI, it only comes under criticism because they're such babies about it.

"How about you guys don't march through a catholic irish area?"

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MY CULTURE"

"Okay we're going to make a parades commission to make sure both sides get a chance to sort something"

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WE'RE GOING TO CAMP IN A FUCKING PARK AND COST THE COUNTRY MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF POUNDS"

Apes, the lot of them. Used to like the 12th for a laugh and a couple good bands, now it's just shite. Even the 11th is starting to get a bit grim.

>>1778765
Are you the guy on /pol/ who got bullied by shankill kids?

>>1778765

I hear its a lot like St.Patricks day in that a lot of people who cant hold their drink and dont normally go to the pub get very drunk and make a complete cunt of themselves, grim enough

>>1778733
>you have no idea about why anyone is Republican or Loyalist in NI
I've lived here my entire life, I'm sure I have a fair idea.
The fact remains that they are not native Irish, they do not see themselves as native Irish, they do not assimilate to Irish culture and they hold no loyalty to the Irish nation.

>>1778776
I'm born and bred Derry/Lisburn "City of Life"

>>1778782
Pretty much.
Well, St Patrick's day is more of a party.
The 12th is a lot of "super serious business" but kind of punctuated with a bunch of drunks. After the parades everyone gets lit, especially in the countryside.

St Paddy's is more family friendly. You go early for the big fancy parade, and the, you either go home or you go to a bar with your friends. Up here, in Belfast there are some amazing street parties, especially up the Holylands direction.

The newspapers usually freak out about it talking about all the "mess" and "property damage" and "out of control young people" when in reality there's more harm done on the 11th night than there is all over St Paddy's.

>>1778807
But my point was that "loyalty" doesn't come into it, a lot of Unionists in NI are just Unionist so they don't rock the boat.

Irish "culture" is dead and buried anyway. The only Irish "culture" in NI is trying not to let the actual history of the country be written as "Unionists dindu nuffin, Loyalism ain't free, irish savages gibs me reparations"

>>1778813

What about the GAA, Irish music, etc?

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>>1778813
>Irish "culture" is dead and buried anyway.
howsat

>>1778813
I'm sure a lot of Unionists are so because they're more socially conservative and the Republican parties don't offer much of that what with Gerry embracing the refugees welcome leftie stance and the SDLP being the SDLP

>>1778822
You don't really see a lot of it.
Sure, I guess if you count GAA as culture and not just another sport and the Irish Music as a cultural point and not just a tourist attraction, okay. We still have that.

Maybe it's just me, but "culture" to me sounds like trends and traditions continued on for generations and generations based on things rooted in our history, and GAA/a fella singing "go on home" doesn't really tug those culture strings for me.

Although maybe I'm being too harsh on it. There is still dancing and stuff.

>>1778838
I'm not a Nilon meself but I'd imagine the Irish and Ulster Scots would behave differently up there, no?

>>1778836
True, that's one of the reasons I think Unionism is going to struggle. It's a simple fact that new voters are becoming more and more liberal, and I can't see a way the Unionist parties can adapt quick enough without splintering and isolating the Unionist votes so hard that they lose a majority.

Also
>SDLP
Top kek. One of the most bizarrely incompetent parties I've ever seen.

>>1778838

That pretty much is your culture though

>>1778858
One of the reasons I don't really say I'm attached to the irish culture.
What tatters do remain of it aren't enough to really differentiate it from anywhere else and more just pockets of culturally relevant entertainment or media as opposed to a mass-adopted set of traditions and customs.

It saddens me that people in Ulster refuse to find a common "culture", as the Glorious Revolution was a very interesting time and learning about it is fun, but Unionists treat the 12th of July as a cultural wall separating the Republicans and the Loyalists, as if the history of one's own country can't be shared regardless of nationality-there is a reason we can have dual citizenship here, and segregating ourselves just because our daddy told us to support rangers instead of celtic seems stupid to me.

To be fair, there does seem to be more protests and uproar from Protestants nowadays, which is odd since I always felt like us Irish were the triggered ones. Sign of the times, I guess.

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>>1778878
>he calls the six counties "Ulster"

>>1778838
>hurr sport isn't culture
>hurr music isn't culture either
Kill yourself

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>>1778914
it's very superficial culture tbf

>>1778845
Not him but yes we do

>>1778878

I honestly dont see any difference between ordinary Catholics and Protestants in NI, they talk the same and have the same sense of humor. And if you want to call working during the week and then going to the pub at the weekend a common culture then they have it.

Its a very small minority of nutjobs who take the whole thing seriously but you will get that everywhere. You have nationalist brainwashing on one side and religious sectarian brainwashing on the other side.

I'm from the south and cant even open my mouth in NI in a public place without getting a pile of dirty looks everytime, it used to bother me but I suppose thats their own problem and not mine.

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>>1778725
WUZ

>>1778924
Since you're convinced that Irish culture is dead and buried please point out which aspects of the "deep culture" you've posted, are dead in Ireland

>>1778914
My point isn't that it's not our culture, my point is that a collective "Irish culture" doesn't really exist beyond the few pockets of irish-dominated past-times and sports you mentioned.

>>1778903
It's what an upbringing here did to me. Don't worry, Ulaidh will be Irish and united one day.

>>1778949
this >>1778924 is not me

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>>1778945
that german flag gets me everytime

>>1778963
I think it's supposed to be the sky, not a German flag.

>>1778977
it's hardly a coincidence and I've never seen a sky that looks like that

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>>1778945
UÍ NÉILLS N SHITEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>tfw telling a protestant that the Red Hand of Ulster is an ancient gaelic symbol

>>1778945

He looks like a motherfucking Plains Indian

>>1778989
What a poor image to depict the legend.

>he's clearly already winning
>he's had enough time to bandage his arm
>Wristband on other arm, not on wrist or severed hand on other arm

>>1778991
How do they not fucking know this?

>>1778989

Ok now I am triggered because this is my families ancient history and I am apparently related to this man

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>tfw traced family tree for years
>found out I'm related to both a key player in the Easter Rising and a Soldier who left Ulster to fight in the trenches
>both of them had expressed distaste for each other's relative group

I don't know who to be proud of. Both, I guess.

>>1779000
Nice trips. But I don't know. I guess since it dominates a lot of Loyalist symbols and shit, but a lot of the genuinely think it's a symbol of Loyalism and not an old Irish symbol. Probably because they were taught Ulster=Loyalism and Red Hand=Ulster.

>>1778322

>White
>fenian

My name is more Irish than White and I'm from fucking Scotland.
The only N. Irish 'Protestant' I met was a decent guy, had no animus towards Catholics and was in no way religious, but made it pretty clear that he still considered himself British, inasmuch as Ulster is part of the UK.

>>1779009
>Both
No, pick a side

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>>1779009
>both

>>1779018
Nope. I'm not related incredibly closely to one or the other.
The Irish one did some great things and so did the British one.

Besides, I've moved past them now. Found out I had a relative in Shetland in 1700 by the name of Magnus Duncan. Go figure.

>>1778997
heck if we're doing art criticism >>1778945 is a doozy

>Cu Chulainn looks like a native American for some reason
>weird kokiri sword looking thing in his left hand for some reason
>tunic is blue instead of yellow
>wearing pants
>wearing a series of leather straps as shoes
>shield has 5 bosses (?) and an anachronistic metal rim
>wearing a long dickbelt instead of a narrow leather hoop
>cloak has two brooches
>random spikes everywhere
>red imprint on the standing stone is the wrong hand
>Ogham isn't actual Ogham, just gibberish
muh autism

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>>1779031
If you live here, you belong to one community or the other. Pick one you pansy

>>1779047
I'm Irish. Have always been part of that community.

But I'm not going to shun one of my dead relatives because he was a Brit, kek. I still have his medals and shit downstairs.

>>1779035

Great Chief Cuchulainn Crazy Spear will never let the green man take his hunting grounds

>>1779050
>I'm Irish. Have always been part of that community
Fair enough

>>1779047
I think he's a muh heritage yank

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>>1779054
kek

>>1779056
Nope, I've only ever left Ireland to go on holiday.

I just like tracing family tree. It's like a puzzle.

Maybe I'm autistic.
I'm probably autistic.

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>>1779054