You are Hitler in 1942, you can order the development and production

>>1732533
Hitler lossed more so than he would've because of letting people with no military expertise, like himself make these kind of decisions. The average 4channer has nowhere near the experience or knowhow to make that kind of call, even the best of /k/ would be a risk.

>>1732533
I'm pretty sure that the Panther was still in development and only went into production in 1943. Although if anything I would give Heinz Guderian near total power in deciding what armored vehicles were being produced.

if i were hitler i'd kill myself and leave a suicide note reading "i was wrong and i'm also gay"

>Not diverting all tank production to Panzer IVs and Stugs

1942?
If I were Hitler I would offer a complete and total ceasefire and begin pulling troops back from the East to more defensible positions. Especially at Stalingrad.

>>1732533

>You are Hitler in 1942, you can order the development and production of the Tiger to cease and focus full production on the Panther instead. Would you do it?

Lol what would that even change?

You're a fucking retard for thinking that such a minor change in procurement priorities could ever impact the outcome of a war at that stage.

>Berlin, 1945
>Soviets walking through the Fuhrerbunker find Hitler's suicide note
>"it was just a prank, Adolf Hitler"
would it have been okay?

>>1732533
100% yes. Tactically, tigers are great. Strategically fuck no. Can't cross bridges, plus fucking expensive. Panther is far closer to the modern MBT: speedy and with a big gun. Maybe with all resources focused on the panther they could solve the reliability issue too.

>>1732550

answer the question or gtfo dumbshit

>>1732553

They were both in design phases in 42'

>>1732626

You fucking moron, we're not talking about changing the outcome of the war, we're discussing the relative effectiveness of fighting vehicle design

>>1732663

One decent answer, thank god

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you basically want an answer saying "yes you just solved ww2 nazis won wow how can u b so smart"

Fuck off back to pol you retarded faggot

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>>1732657

>Berlin, 1945
>Soviets walking through the Fuhrerbunker find Hitler's suicide note

>For you, the day I attacked your country was the most important day of your life. But for me... it was Sunday. -A. Hitler

>>1732846
>Europeans
>oppressing others
When will this meme die? Spain, France and Britain were pretty much the only major colonizers, hardly all of Europe

>>1732533
Tiger and Panther are two different kinds of tanks with two different roles.

>>1732663
>speedy and with a big gun
Speedy on paper, shit mobility in application thanks to unreliable transmission.
Big gun made it a glorified self-propelled AT gun and made it shit at the main task of the tank.

>>1732533

No. I would focus more production in Stug and or Panzer IV. Those had the most kills in the war.

>>1733118
And Portugal, and Netherlands, and Belgium, etc.

>>1732904
i unironically love that movie

>>1733163
Mines had the most tank kills in the war so by your logic Germany should produce just AT mines and win WW2.

>>1733180
Well the Stug III did have like 20,000 armor kills in world war 2 so...

>>1733180
That would probably be the best tactic at that point. Withdraw all your forces into inner Germany, line the borders with minefield and let the Allies and Soviets waste themselves while you're rebuilding your forces.

>>1732533
Screw that, no way to win the war anyway
I'd focus on a way to kill as much kikes as possible instead

>Produce stg44, me-262, etc.
>Don't screw with the Soviets yet.wait til after the war is won
>Focus on Britain. U.S. wouldn't be able to attack without them
>Use v2's on New York.
>Russian/ Japanese joint offensive in the Pacific
It's that simple

If I was Hitler in 42I'd know that there is no way thst I can win the war anymore and wouldn't care about miniscule details but trying to figure out how to fake my own death and escape with as much cash as possible.

>>1733655
But he was winning in 42'

I cancel both for an upgunned Panzer IV. Build more 6x6 medium trucks that can provide logistical support and move troops.

>>1733615
the v2 had a range of only 200 miles

>>1733678
Wasn't the Panzer IV already overloaded as it was upgraded?

>>1733760
Build some for longer range, or launch them from ships

>>1733781
The Panzer IV ausf H was pretty much the pinnacle of the tank. Putting anything else on it was just too much for the chassis.

>Tiger or Panther

How about none of the above?

Both of them had trash availability rates.

All I'd want is a Panzer 5 that has torsion bar suspension, a good crew layout, and is very very easy to mass produce.

And then use Stugs and such to fill the heavy tank role. It's a niche enough application that I'd be comfortable having it handled by tank destroyers.

>>1733615
This is bad bait

>>1733180
>Mines had the most tank kills in the war
had they? i am pretty sure that was ATGs

>>1732533
>You are Hitler in 1942, you can order the development and production of the Tiger to cease and focus full production on the Panther instead. Would you do it?
I would toss a coin because the decision is virtually meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

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>it's another Panther was an MBT episode

I want Wehraboos to leave this board

>>1734096
Doesn't that apply to all decisions ever made?

>>1734153
Aren't medium tanks like the panther essentially MNT's anyways?

>>1734163
MBT's*

>>1734158
Only if you take the grand scheme to mean the entire universe and its incomprehensible length of existence rather than the intended meaning of the war.

>>1734163
Mutant Ninja Turtles?

>>1734167
Aw you fucker.

Mutant Bushido Turtles?

>>1734163
No

>>1734163
you could argue that medium tanks were "the closest" to being MBTs but ultimately they were not MBTs

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>>1734180
>Mutant Bushido Turtles

Made me giggle tbqh fampire

no, I'd foster cooperation between tank commanders, generals, manufacturers and ministers to make sure they get their priorities right

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>>1732533

Probably, if I could find a way to get rid of Germany's autism when it came to parts and make them a lot easier to mass produce.

If not I'd just cancel them both and stockpile a shitton of StuGs

>>1733162
Yeah like I said, if they could have solved the reliability issue the Panther would have been fantastic. If the reliability issue could not have been solved, then just churn out Pz4 and Stugs.

>>1732533
I commit suicide but not before ordering the arrest and summery execution of all S.S. officers... along with more humane treatment for jews and communists.

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>>1732533
>Would you do it?

No, the Panther was a piece off shit that should have never been developed and the effort instead turned toward improving the already successful Panzer IV and Tiger I.

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>>1734395

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>>1734398

>>1734313
73 cents have been deposited into your account

t. ZOG

>>1732533
I would cancel the complete heavy tank line and fire Porsche. He should be only allowed to build cars and trucks.
Also fire the economy department staff that was loyal to Todt like Saur or Dorsch, so Speer can finally turn the civil economy into a total war economy. Also remove the power of the Gauleitern over the civil production.
Give Maybach the total control about the engine standardization and production. So all the spare parts for the engines, gears etc. are swappable.

>>1732533
Who cares?
It's not like it's going to stop the Allies from bombing the shit out of Germany or Soviets from invading it

>>1734532

Porsche wasn't involved in the development project beyond competition to the Henschel design. Although he was an arrogant fuck had the nerve to build 100 tank chassis before the final design was approved and thus the elephant was forced into the German armory, but you're right on the money about Porsche focusing on light vehicles and mass transport.

>>1732533
Any production orders are pretty much irrelevant in 1942. You gotta win with what you have within that year or it's over.

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Full conversions of the thousands of outdated captured Czech armor into Hetzer conversions two years before it became a thing.

Also, sticking to the orginal concept of the VK 30.02 (db), a slightly more fancy, but shamelessly copied t-34.

>>1734630

Also, the question begs an answer: If the Germans didn't go balls out in developing heavier and heavier armor, would the Soviets still produce the IS tank series? and if so, what tank design do you use to counter that?

>>1734638
Soviets had a niche for heavy tanks so they most likely would keep producing them either way.

>>1733118
Implying there were more rellevant countries than those three.

>>1734280
This right here. The E series would have been magical in terms of development and ease of manufacturing if only they had shifted focus instead of bigger is better to impress see funded.

Also: the panther was an excellent tank after its mechanical issues were remedied. Compared to all the other medium tank death traps in use, it was was quite effective and protected the most valuable resource better than most tanks: the crew

>>1735306
Der fuhrer****

>>1735306

>Also: the panther was an excellent tank after its mechanical issues were remedied.

The post war experience of the French who were using the leftover ones disagreed violently.

> Compared to all the other medium tank death traps in use, it was was quite effective

Not really, no. And it's a bit ridiculous to call a 44.8 metric ton vehicle a "medium tank"

>protected the most valuable resource better than most tanks: the crew

Do you have any sources to back that up? I can't seem to find anything on average crew rate losses when a Panther was knocked out.

>>1735313
I think what role the tank plays has more to do with it s classification then weight. The Pershing for example weighed around the same as the Panther was deemed a medium tank after WW2.

>>1735360


You'd still have trouble with the Panther, since it wasn't used in the "classic" medium tank role of a breakthrough/exploitation element, but rather a (somewhat) mobile anti-armor vehicle, which is much more in line with German heavy tank usage.

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>>1735313
The French lol

Compared to a tiger II or a pz III, I think it's safe to say that it qualifies as a medium. Hard to judge a tanks effectiveness when it's constantly being harassed by air assets instead of enemy armor.

I seem to recall another tank being called the death trap and another being shoddily made by a Subpar Soviet workforce as quickly as possible and was only successful because of Zerg rush tactics.
Pic related

>>1735369
Fair point.

>>1732533
completely irrelevant decision desu...

>>1732601
This. At that time, Germany should of been able to strong arm a ceasefire between the allied nations, and then move the vast majority of the German forces (and possibly other axis troops as well) to the Eastern front.

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>>1735371
>Compared to a tiger II or a pz III


Sure, a Tiger 2? But a Panzer 3? It weighs literally over twice as much as the PzIII, and was used way differently besides.

>I think it's safe to say that it qualifies as a medium.

Because of what? It's non-usage as a medium tank, or it's weight above and beyond any other "medium" tank of the war? Fuck, the IS-2 tank was a mere 1.2 tons heavier than the Panther, and I've never heard anyone refer to that as a "medium". Is there some magic line at 45t?

>Hard to judge a tanks effectiveness when it's constantly being harassed by air assets instead of enemy armor.

Except they got spanked quite badly by enemy armor as well. From this book

https://www.amazon.com/Data-World-War-Tank-Engagements/dp/1470079062

We have a table of engagements, who fired first, and losses. Pic related. The Shermans are consistently firing first, and consistently destroying far more Panthers than Panthers are getting Shermans in return.

And let's not forget that you could make other claims that don't look so well for the Panther when applying that reasoning to other tanks

>Hard to judge the T-34's effectivness when they're built out of factories disassembled, moved to Siberia, and then re-built with mostly untrained labor

>Hard to judge the Sherman or the Centurion's effectiveness when they're running into anti-tank mines and being shot by towed ATGs all the time.

>I seem to recall another tank being called the death trap and another being shoddily made by a Subpar Soviet workforce as quickly as possible and was only successful because of Zerg rush tactics.

I seem to recall you having no idea what you're talking about already in this thread. Here, why don't you have an actual article about "Muh zerg rush" and why it's full of shit.

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/connor.pdf

>>1732601
Never would have happened. The Soviets had a taste of blood and he'd been trying for years to get a ceasefire with the British. If he couldn't get it in 40 when the Germans were at their strongest, they certainly wouldn't have been able to get it in 42

>>1735383
>>1732601


And if the western Allies don't accept your offer? If they realize you can't actually hurt their industrial bases? That you've gone back on your word numerous times in the near past? That they're finally turning things around in North Africa and taking to the offensive?

>>1732533
leave military matters to competent officer and instead dedicate my time to Fuhrerharem

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>>1732568
>if i were hitler i'd kill myself and leave a suicide note reading "i was wrong and i'm also gay"

He knew he would be demonized.
He should have written "im a jew".

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>>1734630
> Also, sticking to the orginal concept of the VK 30.02 (db), a slightly more fancy, but shamelessly copied t-34.

While neat-o looking and all, there’s no guarantee that the Daimler-Benz Panther would have been any better then MAN design which was adopted.

The fundamental problem of the Panther was that it wasn’t needed and sucked up resources that would have been better spent on improving and increasing the numbers of the Panzer IV, which was perfectly capable of taking on any Allied opponent and could do so without all the problems imposed on German manufacturing and logistics that the Panther entailed.

>>1735371
Belton Cooper pls go

>>1735371
>Compared to a pz III

A panzer III was nearly 20 tons lighter than a panther.