Why didn't Illyria become latinized like Romania, but rather

There was a Latin based Dalmatian language that existed along the coast until the beginning of the 20th century, it was supposed to be an intermediary between Italian and Romanian apparently

>>1728915
It was invaded by Avars and Slavic tribes who weren't partly Romanized already, displaced much of the existing Roman settlers, and didn't form kingdoms in which Latin customs and culture was enshrined in law, allowing the native Illyrians and Slavic settlers to develop their own languages while Latin and Greek could only influence things slowly through the Church.

>>1728915
Because the Latin language largely died out due to the point of that historical period being the start of the great migrations of the 3rd to 10th century in Eastern and Southern Europe.

they were, but them they weren't because slavs

File: germanic europe.png (603KB, 658x482px) Image search: [Google]

603KB, 658x482px

"Slavs" do not exist. They are eastern germanics

Slav culture is too strong to assimilate

>>1728960
Those Germanic tribes left/got btfo and replaced by Slavs

>>1729075
>replaced by Slavs
According to modern science Western Slavs live in the same exact spot since the Bronze Age

>>1728915

They did, but those Latin speakers were later replaced by Slavs.

>>1729125

Why did no-one notice them until the middle ages?

>>1729125
So how did it come to be that they speak Slavic languages and not Germanic

>>1728960
Yes Germanics who don't speak anything resembling a Germanic language you fuckstick.

>>1729170
>>1729169
Either they did and didn't make the distinction from "other" Germanic barbarians, or the locals were just conquered (rather than displaced) by Slavic speaking invaders and forced to adopt their customs and language.

File: Western_and_Eastern_Romania.png (237KB, 800x633px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 800x633px

>>1728915
They did, the Slavs came later

Because Slavs came after the Romans, they were speaking a form of Latin before.

So many Emperors were Illyrian.

>>1728915
they were latinized, and later were turned into slavs

>>1729965

REEEEEEEEEE IT'S MASSA-SENIGALLIA NOT LA SPEZIA-RIMINI REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>1728937
Yep, there is still a lot of words in dalmatian dialect of croatian that people confuse with Italian

>>1729978
Sure, but latins haven't just disappeared when slavs came, they just adopted Slavic culture and mixed with slavs.

File: TotalWarParthianEasternInfantry_01.jpg (7KB, 160x210px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 160x210px

>>1728915
because the Turks used a large number of Palestinian auxilleries to patrol Albania. Since these Palestinians mostly happened to learn a mix of Slavic and Turkish most inscriptions and place names were made to be in this language which birthed modern Albanian

Large slavic migrations, the Slavs were essentially pissed off at Avar rule and just moved to Byzantium. When they first started the Byzantines were under harsh pressure from the east so the Slavs could just literally march over the border and set up their homes.

Recolonization and Greekification efforts started later, but not a lot of people wanted to leave Anatolia. The Byzantine ministers essentially just picked landowners randomly and two generations to both directions of that family had to leave to the Balkans. A lot of them returned during civil strife periods because Anatolia was much richer and it was their home.

Some remained though, which is why Greece isn't really slavic.

>>1731171
Albanian has roots in illyrian and thracian and there is etymological proof.

>>1729181
The English are "Germanics" speaking a Germanic language, yet DNA testing shows that they're still mostly Celtic/Briton/whatever.

>>1728960
Was? Ich kein spreche nicht Deutsch, bloß Wenden bitte!

>>1731171
>they mixed south slavic, turkish and arab
>language is not closely related to any of them, and only distantly to slavic

>>1728915

Slavs migrated to the area after Rome fell

>>1731339
>illyrian etymological proof
That is not proven thou

>>1728962
>this dude

You probably shouldn't ever reply to anything on /his/

>>1731420
Well, not for the illyrian I guess, but there are words that are not of latin or otherwise origin, and generally they are thracian (which can be proven by the fact that they are only also found in romanian, where it got through from the closest relative of thracian, dacian). Not sure if any words can be proven to be of illyrian origin (maybe if they can also be found in dalmatian, but I haven't really researched this).

>>1731345
>yet DNA testing shows that they're still mostly Celtic/Briton/whatever.
But that's wrong

>>1728915
Because contrary to popular belief, Slavs are quite adept at assimilating and colonizing lesser people, hence them assimilating 28 different ethnic groups that have once lived in southeastern, eastern and central Europe.

>>1729170
Balto-Slavic predates predates Proto-Germanic for a thousand years.

>>1729125
If that happens to be true, then European history as we know it needs to be updated, sooner rather than later.


>>1731206
Categorically false.The Slavs wished to continue with pillaging the Balkans, but the Asiatic outriders have refused because they were content with their loot.

>When they first started the Byzantines were under harsh pressure from the east so the Slavs could just literally march over the border and set up their homes

Would've been true if they hadn't defeated three regular Byzantine armies in the process of settling the Balkans.The rest is true, I guess.

>>1731707
Only a small portion of Slavs were assimilated, mainly those of Germany and Prussia, and they're but a minority in contrast to other groups.

>>1731339
It's presumed to have roots in Illyrian because there's no proof to be had for a different theory.

>>1734902
>Balto-Slavic predates predates Proto-Germanic for a thousand years.
Proofs?

>>1728937
I think that it was mostly spoken by Venetians tho

>>1728960

such simple bait

and it works both ways, look;

>"germanics" do not exist. They are western slavs

>>1735058
Nope,two different languages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language

Just a quick addition.
In the territory, occupied today by Romania, the official alphabet until the 19th century was Cyrillic and you can still see names of settlements like Cernavoda.

>>1728915
Are Albanians actually related/tied to Illyrians or have I been fed memes my whole life?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlachs

>>1735560
>tfw Croatian and maternal grandfather who was from the coast always hated my father and considered him a dam dirty barbarian vlach for being from the Dalmatian hinterland
kek it all makes sense now

>>1735552
It's very uncertain.
It's assumed that their language is a descendant of the Illyrian language, because it is it's own branch of Indo European languages, the only barely similar language is Greek.
This poses more questions. How did this language arise if it went extinct much like Dacian and Thracian.
More questions arise as the earliest records of Albanians are all connected to Norman/Aragonese/Sicilian/Neapolitan attacks on Byzantium. Perhaps there were some Illyrians in southern Italy that moved back to the Balkans in the 11th and 12th century, because Byzantine sources never mentioned them prior to that period. And they Byzantines were very thorough in categorizing such things. They were also noted to be Catholic which clues in that they were not under Byzantine rule prior.

Problem is EVERYTHING is just theory crafting with little evidence, since Illyrians were assimilated into Romans.
The small group of Illyrians that resisted assimilation theory
The remnants of Apennine illyrians/Daunia that migrated to the present day Albania in the late 11th century theory (Greeks like the one, go figure)
The Pelasgian theory which is even more bonkers suggesting they predate the Greeks.
The Caucasian theory is also stretching it by saying they're from modern day Azerbaijan (Serbs like this one, go figure)

Then Albanians come along and yell WE WUZ AUTOCHTHONOUS.

>>1731345
I am going to need a citation on this.

The part where Celtic and Britons survived, Wales and Cornwall, maintained celtic languages. Otherwise, Anglo-Saxons dominated most post-Roman history of Middle Age Britain.

>>1735586
Lel that shit still exists in Dalmatia as a derogatory term. closest how I would describe it is when you call someone a redneck in USA

I remember reading years ago that romanians arent actually dacians, but the latin speakers people of illyria who moved to the north when the slavs arrived, they changed positions like the castling in chess.

such migration would seem very weird to me.
seems very weird to me

>>1736834
>I remember reading years ago that romanians arent actually dacians,

Where did you even get that idea from in the first place that Romanians are Dacians

>>1736862
Probably /int/

File: Summary_Piontek.png (84KB, 680x1714px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 680x1714px

Germanic-speakers were not the original IE inhabitants of territory which is now Poland, they came during middle-to-late Iron Age as immigrants or invaders and in relatively small numbers.

There is a biological population continuity in Poland since the Bronze Age until nowadays - neither Germanic immigration nor Slavic immigration altered it considerably.

Language & culture of population of Poland were changing few times, but population - in its main core (not counting quite numerous admixtures from migrating peoples) - is similar as in times of Biskupin-builders:

http://www.staff.amu.edu.pl/~anthro/pdf/mono/vol012/01piontek.pdf

File: Janke.png (214KB, 560x576px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 560x576px

>>1736986
Even today people in eastern Germany and in Austria have a lot of R1a haplogroup, which was most common among Medieval West Slavs.

Also I2a haplogroup is very typical for Slavic populations. Of course it would be a mistake to associate haplogroups with ethnicities, but are there are certain statistical correlations, which allow us to arrive at certain conclusions and generalizations concerning their origins.

Also Slavic surnames are common in Germany - some of them are Polish in origin but some are from other Slavic groups.

For example here is surname "Janke", distribution of which indicates that it is Obotrite-Veleti rather than Polish, Pomeranian or Sorbian:

File: R1a_R1b_cities_B.png (347KB, 1076x761px) Image search: [Google]

347KB, 1076x761px

>>1736991
Comparison of R1a and R1b haplogroups among people in various German, Austrian, Czech and Polish cities today:

Map shows modern-day R1b / R1a proportions among inhabitants of 25 selected cities located in Central Europe:

Dark green = Polish and Czech cities
Light green = German & Austrian cities with ~20% (Greifswald) up to ~43% (Graz) of R1a
Dark red = other cities in Germany

What can be observed is that former Slavic areas in Germany & Austria correlate with high % of people with R1a haplogroup:

File: Chart_R1a_R1b.png (37KB, 504x568px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 504x568px

>>1736994
Graz in Early Middle Ages was a Slavic city (burgh) of the Principality of Carantania, which was called Gradec (in Old Slovene language). Graz has so high percent of people with R1a haplogroup, that it is obvious that they are mostly descendats of Germanized Slovenes (Carantanians).

Note that German-speaking Austrian inhabitants of Graz have a higher % of R1a than ethnic Slovenes of Slovenia.

According to our website, 38% of Slovenes from Slovenia have R1a haplogroup, while 43% of Austrians from Graz have it:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

>>1728937
>>1729136
>>1729965
>>1730481
>>1730537
>>1735349

I'm not sure I believe the "we wuz illyrainz" theory, but Albanian does have a lot of Latin words, apparently from about the same period as Vulgar Latin was breaking off into the various Romance languages.

File: BIG_0008378741.jpg (74KB, 483x383px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 483x383px

>>1736996
Gradec is still known by this name, by the way. It's just one of many Austrian cities, towns and villages of Slavic origin.
>pic related

File: 1469960063940.jpg (156KB, 768x590px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 768x590px

>>1738506
And here's a map of Germany with places with names of Slavic origins. Do note that all locations are marked west of the line, commonly thought to be at one point settled by Slavs.

>>1738511
What went wrong?

File: STopMap.jpg (38KB, 420x467px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 420x467px

>>1738518
Germanisation

Ugh... Are we just going to ignore Albanian?

>>1734952
Proto-Germanic circa 500 BCE << Pre-Balto-Slavic circa 1300 BCE.

Source:Anthony, David W. (2007). The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World

Ringe, Donald A. (2006). From Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Germanic. Linguistic history of English

>>1738518
Wendish Crusade and Germanization.

>>1738506
Same as Slovenians are calling Klagenfurt - Celovec. My grandfather is from Slovenian part of Carintia and it is all mixed. I have Austrian ancestors by that line almost the same amount as Slovenian. I was always wondering why didn't the whole region of Carintia went to Austria after ww1. I am guessing natural borders more than ethnic?

File: Slavic -in suffix in Europe.jpg (267KB, 1499x901px) Image search: [Google]

267KB, 1499x901px

>>1738511

>>1739128
Britanny, North Spain how?

>>1739158
Maybe "germanics" that went to those countries didn't speak germanic at all?

>>1739114
Geography was an important aspect of it but the area that's today known as Slovene Carinthia was taken over in the early stages of the conflict prior to the plebiscite. And had the plebiscite gone in favour of Yugoslavia, Slovene Carinthia would reach across the Karavanke mountain range.

>>1739128
Pretty sure it's locations with names containing Wend, Wind and other variations.

>>1739158
Britain is easily explained, many Slavs were part of the Danelaw, they emigrated there as allies of the Danes, not sure about Spain, though.

>>1739497
Thanks for explanation, but I misspelled, I was confused with Brittany not Britain. Maybe >>1739285 this anon is right, it makes sense.

>>1739158
It's a shit map and doesn't take in account that not all of those endings are of Slavic origin, like for example Estonia that square is Tallinn has no relation with any Slavic name it means Danish town/castle in Estonia.

File: Swiss city, slavic origin.png (77KB, 866x736px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 866x736px

>>1739285
>Pretty sure it's locations with names containing Wend, Wind and other variations.
Majority (if not all) names ending with ow/ov, owa/ova, owo/ovo, in, ina, ino, au, itz, itza, itze or having wend/vind root are of Slavic origin.

>>1739497
So any placename that ends in -in is of Slavic origin? Wow, TIL.

>>1740847
pretty much >>1739732

it was, but the slavs came.