Are Christians obligated to be pro-immigrant? What is the consensus

>>1712999
gee, are people obligated to let themselves be murdered and their children raped?

really makes your noggin tick!

>>1712999
>The Orthodox Church
The American one?

Catholics tend to be more pro immigrant while Protestants are usually more nationalistic.

Medieval Europe fought against the Arab invasion, so it must be acceptable for Christians to be anti-immigrant.

>>1713011
>those damn, dirty foreigners daring to live in the same country as you is analogous to committing violence against you
Really inspires pondering

>>1713014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWHSpmXEJs

>>1712999
They are cerainly obligated to render aid to the homeless and disposessed, as chuch tradtion or even the most cursery reading of the bible would point out.

Jesus was a man who advocated giving up your personal property to help complete strangers.

The Orthodox church in this statement is trying to defect attention from their dislike of muslem immigrants by pointing the finger at capitalism, as if opposing modern capitalism and caring for the downtrodden are mutually exclusive goals.

The reason for the immigration is a war, which is the fault of many parties, and naturally the people seek refuge with the most reliable source of it, Europe.

The phrase "bleeding the peoples of Europe" is especially suspect from the point of view of Christian theology, which explicitly rejects nationalism or any sort of exclusivity save for the body of the Church.

While there opposition my in fact benefit the peoples of Europe in some way, that in itself is not necessarily the Christian thing to do.

>>1712999
>the liberal, hedonistic ideology bleeding the peoples of Europe and the interests of the capitalist elite

wtf i love the orthodox now

>>1713035
Which denom are you, anon?

>>1713044
This isnt about letting a hoard of American corporations into their countries, which has probably already happened. This is about letting in a few hundred thousand starving war refugees. To compare barring them to the struggle against globalism is so absurd I dont know what to say to it.

>>1713051
>a few hundred thousand
Guess again

>>1713048
I was raised Catholic.

>>1713056
Ah

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>>1713025

>>1713055
in terms of the impact on each country , yes. But even if it was millions, that would not change your
Christian obligations

>>1713014
that's why protestant nations like UK, Germany and Sweden are completely safe from immigration right?

>>1713035
yes, truly, it is the christian duty to aid people who wish to exterminate christianity, who just fled a state where they already exterminated the few remaining syrian christians by the hundred of thousands

makes sense

>>1713064
Christians are obligated to permit waves of heathens in that will negatively impact the wages of domestic workers, and will influence domestic politics to accord with heathen religious interests?

>>1713051
>a few hundred thousand
Lie, millions have already migrated to Europe
>starving war refugees
Lie, according to the UN the majority were adult men and in any picture they all look healthy
Two lies in a single sentence, what an accomplishment!

>>1713072
>But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Literally yes. Just face it, your savior is the ultimate cuck.

>>1713073
no, christians are obliged to accomodate waves of muslims who won't defend their own homes, and allowed a million christians in the last 3 years to be genocided

get your facts straight

>>1713072
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

Jesus healed a solider taking him away to be judged and executed.

If you truly believed this stuff, you would be willing to sacrifice for them, even at the risk of your own well being. That they are "heathen" shouldn't even factor into your decision to help them.

I can say this with conviction because anyone with even the scantiest Christian education should have at least absorbed this, and I have trouble comprehending how you could disagree and still claim to be Christian

>>1713089
okay, get ready, I'm coming to your house. get ready to issue me the deed to your house after I spit in your face and stab your kid

if you don't, you're unchristian

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>>1713095
>if you don't, you're unchristian
>implying I'm spooked enough to care
I think you have miscalculated.

>>1713092
Jesus knew the Romans would reckon the Jews the Jews for rejecting him He predicted the Temple would be destroyed and Jerusalem razed by God, through the Romans

>>1713095
So in your mind, letting a muslem refugee into your country is the same as letting a murderer into your home?

Nice

>>1713101
I dont get your logic here.

Ah, here it comes, the : "if you don't agree with the leftist opinions that I adopted from socialist ATHEISTS 20 years ago, you're not a REAL christian!"

I can't wait to see how this one works itself out.

>>1712999
I'm really sick and tired of leftists mangling vocabulary to score cheap rhetorical points.
An immigrant is not just someone who travels from point A to point point B.
Jesus was not an "immigrant".
The Pilgrims were not "immigrants".
The goddamn Conquistadors were NOT "immigrants".

WORDS HAVE MEANINGS ASSHOLES

>>1713124
If that is the case, why does the worlds largest Christian denomination believe exactly that?

Let me Guess, the church was taken over in an evil conspiracy during Vatican II?

am I close?

>>1713109
My point is that Jesus did not hold the Romans accountable for the harm being done to him. They didn't really want to kill him, they just did it because the Jews demanded it and Christ was Jewish. That doesn't mean Pontius Pilate is considered a gud boy who didn't do nuffin in Orthodox Christianity, he's considered a bad man, but ultimately acting on the orders of the Jews, and the Romans will carry out God's wrath upon Jerusalem in return.

>>1713127
>Propaganda Due
>not an evil conspiracy

>>1713092
None of that means that Christians should allow themselves to be overrun by heretics.
See that's the part you're skimming over.
Muslims are heretics.

>>1713127
If you already know the answer, why ask?

>>1713131
Jesus forgave the people who nailed him to a piece of wood and left him to die, but the jews, they were the ones who had to feel God's wraith?

You might still have a point if that was some sort of break from Jesus's normal way of doing things, but he spend his life forgiving people, and urging others to do everything the could even for the sake of strangers.

>>1713147
>but the jews, they were the ones who had to feel God's wraith?
Yeah, since they already had God's message and were therefore held to much higher standards. Christ also says Christians who do evil will suffer a much worse fate than pagans who do evil.

>>1713051
>a few hundred thousand starving war refugees

How fucking delusional can you be

>>1713147
You realize the Old Testament God is ALSO Jesus right?
He clearly has more responses to life than just forgiving everything.

>>1713152
Despite what the gospel of John says, the Jews did not rise up as one body and call for Jesus's death. If any were involved it was only the Sanhedrin and their supporters.

>>1713154
Does the term "New Covenant" mean nothing to you

>>1713035
>muh capitalism
Fuck off commie.
This may come as a shock to you but it's possible to render aid to the homeless and dispossessed without letting them into your country.

>>1713035
Christian theology doesn't reject nationalism, it embraces it
"Give unto Caesar"

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>>1713051
>few hundred thousand starving war refugees

>>1713157
>Does the term "New Covenant" mean nothing to you
Clearly it means nothing to you as you think it applies to the Jews that killed Jesus.

>>1713023
>people actually think letting in large amounts of uneducated people with a misogynistic culture wont impact rape or crime statistics
rly makes u think

>>1713124
>Ah, here it comes, the : "if you don't agree with the leftist opinions that I adopted from socialist ATHEISTS 20 years ago, you're not a REAL christian!"
More like "If you don't agree with European Christian ideals of charity adopted into secular morality from hundreds of years of Christian dominance then your ideals are unchristian"

Which is the truth.

>>1713023
>homeless veterans freezing to death in the street?
>Who cares! We need to prioritize housing for refugees!

Your damn right it's analogous.

>>1713169
>religion invented things that existed before those religions were invented
t. young earth xians

>>1712999
No, because you're not fixing a place, you're leaving some place shit and inevitably causing a new place to be shit. It's the same kind of Christianity where you let a fag fuck ten AIDS-ridden dicks to avoid hurting his feelings

>>1713169
ah, so every single pope before the current one was a heretic?

interesting

>>1713169
>adopted into secular morality
>If you don't pretend your Christian ideals are the same as our secular ones you're UNCHRISTIAN
Fuck off.

>>1713162
That's secularism, not nationalism. Unless you take it retardedly literally in which case Christians should all be loyal to the Roman Empire, which doesn't exist anymore.

Tribalist notions like nationalism are pretty clearly rebuked. I mean the good samaritan is arguably the most famous parable in the Bible and it's literally about how hostile populations should be treated as our neighbour.

>>1713188
No, the Good Samaritan is about how good heretics are more your neighbors than shitty orthodox.

>>1713188
>Roman Empire, which doesn't exist anymore.
Guess who literally control Rome

>>1713188
the good samaritan is about how morality is universally descended from god.

if it was the parable of the bad samaritan, it wouldn't be talking about how we have a duty to feed rapists and terrorists

>>1713051

Lmao wow this has to be bait.

>>1713051
Holy fuck I hope you are being ironic

>>1713182
Show me where the "every pope before the current one" argues against refugees. In fact I'd be impressed if you could give more than five examples. It's also incredibly naive of you to think that the Popes always followed christian morality to the letter. The Popes are sinners like the rest of us.

>>1713160
>Fuck off commie.
Are you unable to read?

>>1712999
>gommie church gonna gom
>still not defining what "mass migration" is, because that would blow the dankest stormcuck meme since 20 year

>>1713011
>>1713023
>>1713166
>>1713166
Samefag.

>>1713173
What is a ruined housing market? One market that is not ruined, but is pretty much free enterprise is the clothing market. Even the worst of the bums is relatively well dressed.

>>1713125
flight into egypt = jesus was an immigrant

>>1713209
The Orthodox Church has completely opposed usury since the time of the Apostles, that of course rules out the credit system which is the linchpin of capitalism

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>>1713209
FUCK YOU GOT ME

>>1713209
>What is a ruined housing market?
What does that have to do with giving free housing to foreigners instead of natives?
How is tightening the housing market even further by importing people helpful?

> Even the worst of the bums is relatively well dressed
Compared to who exactly?
An African bushman? Certainly not compared to the iphone toting "refugees".

>>1713210
Wrong.
Both Egypt and Israel were part of the Roman Empire.
Not an immigrant.

>>1713225
egypt and isreal are different countries, look up the definition of immigration and deal with it

>>1713186
European atheists follow christian morality.

>>1712999

"Christians" is quite the broad demographic, pal.
If you mean modern mainstream protestant christianism, then they are unanimously pro-immigrant, since they accept and value the act of conversion, ergo there are no geographical frontiers, only religious ones etc., God embraces all who wish to flock under him etc.

If you mean orthodox cristianism (Catolicism), then they tend to be anti-immigration, but they are pretty much on-the-fence most of the time.

Anything else is a mish-mash of confusion, xenophoby and political interests that defy any classification.

>>1713232
>hurr durr if you moved from Canada to Australia when they were part of the British empire you were an immigrant!

Just stop.
You're not going to win this one.
Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, Jesus was not an immigrant, anymore so than a bank-robber who crosses state lines to escape local police jurisdiction is an immigrant.

>>1713241
HA!
Is that why they think two men can get married and abortion is perfectly a-ok?

>>1713035
No way

This has to be a bait post

>>1713011
>gee, are people obligated to let themselves be murdered and their children raped?
>really makes your noggin tick!
I actually read this thinking you were arguing for why migrants would want to leave their home countries.

>>1713256
>Is that why they think two men can get married and abortion is perfectly a-ok?
Yes, actually.

>>1713267
Now you're just being silly.

>>1713160
>This may come as a shock to you but it's possible to render aid to the homeless and dispossessed without letting them into your country.
Yeah, but is anyone really doing that sufficiently?

>>1713218
>muh housing market is rekt
>but I can't un-rekt it because that would mean that some niggo will benefit from it
The proof that stormcucks hates niggers more than they like their countrymen. Because when the refugee crisis is over, the housing market is still rekt.

>2016
>still thinking that iPhones are items of luxury

>>1713272
Define "sufficient".

>>1713274
How does importing foreigners "un-rekt" the housing market faggot?

>still thinking that iPhones are items of luxury
Who said anything about luxury?
The point is refugees have a higher level of financial security than homeless people do. They literally pay tens of thousands of dollars to get smuggled across borders without having to sell off their state of the art pocket computers.

>>1713271
>Now you're just being silly.
I'm serious. Christian morality gave birth to humanism which gave birth to gay rights, etc. Take the superstitious aspects away from christianity and you're left with no reason to oppose gay marriage. People are happy to drop the superstitious aspects of christianity but have still been moulded by christian ethics and it would take centuries to remove christian morality from Europe.

As for abortion that's a simple matter of when you define life as beginning.

>>1713319
You do realize that Nietzsche's narrative of the roots of morality has zero historical merit, it's just a literary device to express his philosophy, right?

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>>1713319
>Take the religious aspects away from christianity
And you have zero left, the Bible becomes just a work of literature and the rituals are just historical reenactments. Nothing functions in Christianity without God, it's like saying, "just keep the solar system functioning, but take away the sun."

>>1713319
>Take away the Christian aspects of Christianity and you're left with no reason to oppose gay marriage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NS7Gkv4NNA

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>>1713308
>They literally pay tens of thousands of dollars to get smuggled across borders without having to sell off their state of the art pocket computers.
The ones who can afford that are already in Germany. 3000 euro can get you a flight from Athens to anywhere in the EU. The vast majority of refugees can't afford anything like that. Phones are their most important possession and the last thing they would sell. Most of them would go into prostitution before selling their phones, as is the case with a couple of young boys a friend of mine was working with.

I actually worked with refugees on Chios if anyone has any questions.

>>1713294
It seems in some places there is a shortage of humanitarian aid. But a lot of the ones fleeing to Europe wouldn't really be stopped by an improvement in their circumstances. So estimating something like that is a little tricky, but I think if Western countries invested enough into direct action then we would have better justification for refusing refugees.

>>1713338
> Phones are their most important possession and the last thing they would sell. Most of them would go into prostitution before selling their phones, as is the case with a couple of young boys a friend of mine was working with.

and yet the vast number of homeless people do not own cellphones. As I said before, refugees, no matter how pathetic still have a higher level of financial security than a homeless person.

Refugees by definition have the financial wherewithal to travel hundreds if not thousands of miles. Homeless people can barely scrape together the money to buy a sandwich.

>>1713338
>Most of them would go into prostitution before selling their phones
Not him, but I can't even comprehend this. To value an electronic gadget over your own self-pride and autonomy is extreme. I guess if you lack access to certain public services a phone is fairly important, but I wouldn't hesitate about getting rid of my phone I needed money.

>>1713338
it actually makes perfect sense from my limited personal experience abroad.
A smartphone is your window to the world.

>>1713051
>This is about letting in a few hundred thousand starving war refugees
I don't have enough smug anime whores for this post.

>>1712999
>The Orthodox Church released this statement this year
What a useless statement. Who the fuck immigrates to Orthodox countries anyway? Even refugees realize Eastern Europe is a shithole.

>>1713323
yes

>>1713335
>And you have zero left, the Bible becomes just a work of literature and the rituals are just historical reenactments.
Yes, and that is how secular Europeans feel about the bible and christian ritual. Nonetheless, Christian moral concepts are deeply ingrained in the European psyche.

>>1713343
The only justification necessary is "not our problem".

No one owes these people anything, and it is not Europe's duty to lift these people out of their squalid lives. "White Man's Burden" isn't a thing anymore, maybe you haven't heard.

>>1713359
>Nonetheless, Christian moral concepts are deeply ingrained in the European psyche.
No they aren't. Hedonism is the moral principle of Europe. Christian ethics are about asceticism. Excusing immorality is the moral principle of Europe, forgiveness is the Christian principle.

>>1713359
>Christian moral concepts are deeply ingrained in the European psyche.
except when it comes to things like premarital sex, promiscuity, abortion, pornography, filial duty and marriage of course.

>>1713319
>Take the superstitious aspects away from christianity and you're left with no reason to oppose gay marriage.
A Christian shouldn't be discriminatory towards homosexuals but marriage is a service that shouldn't even be provided by the state for anyone. Homosexual marriage has no grounds.

>>1713353
You need a phone number to get a job, or to communicate with other people including members of your community.

If you lose your phone, you lose your contact with your family, especially if you don't have access to the internet otherwise.

This thread is great.

Next time someone goes full deus vult muh degeneracy on me, I'll just remind them their duties as christians towards refugees.

>>1713365
>marriage shouldn't be provided by the state anymore
why the fuck is that? At the end of the day, it is the duty of the state to register and process people who are cohabiting together.

>>1713360
The demands of morality are not in the 21st century restricted by national borders. Morality demands universal adherence to the extent that a person is most capable and with the advent of the internet, there are few people whom your charity cannot reach. The distinction between giving a homeless man on the street a few dollars and sending money to a starving African village is diminishing.

>>1713374
Not only is the state itself a violation of rights, but anytime the state enters domestic life people lose autonomy.
Marriage is a social function that has certain legal functions. The social functions can be performed without the facilitation of the state, and the legal functions can be performed through other means.

>>1713352
>and yet the vast number of homeless people do not own cellphones.
Most homeless people I know have phones. In fact they mostly have better phones than me. That's a personal choice on my part though, I don't like smart phones, and it's retarded to use something like a phone as a measure for wellbeing.

>As I said before, refugees, no matter how pathetic still have a higher level of financial security than a homeless person.
Maybe. That said it's irrelevant. The fact that there are poorer people in the world doesn't really mean much. I've met refugees who were much richer than I am, I've also met some who had nothing, not even a pair of shoes.

>>1713380
>legal functions can be performed through other means
yeah fuck rule of law, or the state protecting the right of individuals.

The Orthodox church is just a Slav/Greek culture club

>>1713359
>Christian moral concepts are deeply ingrained in the European psyche.
lol what are you smoking

>>1713388
pretty much this.

>>1713388
The largest parish in my area is actually almost half converts, and the other half is 90% children of converts. The priest is also a convert.

>>1713375
>The demands of morality are not in the 21st century restricted by national borders.
Utter horse-shit.

>The distinction between giving a homeless man on the street a few dollars and sending money to a starving African village is diminishing.
Meanwhile the homeless man in your neighborhood (literally your neighbor) freezes to death, while you destroy the local economy in Africa by dumping tons of free grain and cast off clothing on them causing even more suffering.

>>1713384
>rights
spooky

>>1713381
>The fact that there are poorer people in the world doesn't really mean much
Of course it does.
Why do these foreigners deserve to get bumped to the head of the line at the expense of a nation's own citizens?

>>1713384
You could sign a contract with another person/s which would merge financial assets, as well as shared responsibility for children.

>>1713353
>To value an electronic gadget over your own self-pride and autonomy is extreme.
Having phone is a big part of their autonomy. It's their only method of contact with family and friends, and with people in general. None of these people spoke any Greek, and their English was fairly poor also. Giving up their phone would leave them completely reliant on aid workers, and they didn't trust them after what I suspect was a history of abuse.

>>1713396
My grandad lived to 100 and he smoked every day

>>1713381
>Most homeless people I know have phones.
Your crust-punk friends don't count.

>>1713397
What have you done to help that homeless man?
Of course there is an order of immediacy and while that homeless man takes the greatest priority, that is not the bounds of your action, it is merely the starting point.

>>1713405
>waaah we don't trust yooooou!
>let us into your country so we can leach off your benefits system though! :3

>>1713409
>while that homeless man takes the greatest priority,
Except he clearly doesn't with you people.
There is no great push to find and build free housing for the homeless. There is for "refugees" though....

>>1713363
>Hedonism is the moral principle of Europe.
Hedonism is frowned upon in Europe. Asceticism is viewed favourably.

>forgiveness is the Christian principle.
forgiveness is also the European principle, which is evident if you look at our justice system compared to the rest of the world.

>>1713364
>except when it comes to things like premarital sex, promiscuity, abortion, pornography, filial duty and marriage of course.
no the influence of christian morality is seen pretty clearly in those issues too.

>>1713412
Just admit you lost the argument. A little humility goes a long way.

>>1713417
>There is no great push to find and build free housing for the homeless. There is for "refugees" though....
There is. Many of the volunteers I worked with in Greece had a history of working with soup kitchens, homeless shelters etc. In my experience there is a large overlap in the people advocating aid for refugees and the people advocating aid for homeless people. The opposite is also true, there seems to be an overlap in the people who are opposed to aid for refugees and opposed to aid for the homeless people. I don't know if it's a question of empathy or whatever.

>>1713420
What argument did I lose exactly faggot?

>>1713419
>Hedonism is frowned upon in Europe. Asceticism is viewed favourably.
So premarital sex is considered undesirable, and many devote themselves to lifelong celibacy? Also fasting is popular?

>forgiveness is also the European principle, which is evident if you look at our justice system compared to the rest of the world.
All the world calls it "correction" these days.

>>1713417
>Except he clearly doesn't with you people.
>you people
I'm hardly a leftist, but I have observed in my own community the efforts of the Catholic Church to build housing for the homeless.

>>1713424
Horse-shit there is.
If there were there would be no homeless. If you magically find the capacity to take in and aid MILLIONS of foreigners, this means that you had resources lying around idle that weren't going toward helping the already existing homeless problem.

>opposed to aid for the homeless people
lol come on man be serious.

>>1713430
No one said that nobody helps the homeless. The issue is the questionable morality of the state prioritizing foreigners thousands of mile away over it's own citizens, while the media stokes a short-sighted pop-culture fad of "helping the refugees".

>>1713425
Learn to read, friend.

>>1713441
Learn to make an argument first.

>>1713427
>So premarital sex is considered undesirable
There is not as much negative stigma, but a woman who refrains from sex will be viewed as more morally upstanding than someone who is promiscuous.

>and many devote themselves to lifelong celibacy? Also fasting is popular?
lifelong celibacy is not common anymore nor is strict fasting but thet are still viewed favourably, while hedonism is viewed negatively. Similar behaviour has become common with regard to modern technology, where people will go "off the grid" or otherwise cut themselves off from modern comforts. I suspect this is a vestige of christian morality. Also, shame based self-neglect is common in catholic countries.

>>1713435
There is a reason many homeless people are homeless. Mental illness, bankruptcy, joblessness, alcoholism - all are tough issues that don't have guaranteed solutions, and it's not like communities don't try to solve this.

War refugees, meanwhile, are literally a bunch of "regular, healthy" people willing to contribute to society cleanly and cheaply, even more cheaply than the homeless. Are you willing to say that most refugees are, by nature of being war refugees, lazy and shiftless and a net negative to society? Would you also be willing to say, then, that they're a greater net negative than the serial homeless?

>>1713443
It's all right there. Having a phone is vital to exist in the modern era, unless you want no hope of a job and want to cut all ties with everyone outside your immediate family. You personally might want that, and undoubtedly your family wants that of you, but most migrants don't.

>Having phone is a big part of their autonomy. It's their only method of contact with family and friends, and with people in general. None of these people spoke any Greek, and their English was fairly poor also. Giving up their phone would leave them completely reliant on aid workers, and they didn't trust them after what I suspect was a history of abuse.

>>1713412
>if you are a refugee, your families should be broken up and your children taken away.
eric

>>1713406
>My grandpappy did that too, and he smoked weed.

>>1713451
>War refugees, meanwhile, are literally a bunch of "regular, healthy" people willing to contribute to society cleanly and cheaply, even more cheaply than the homeless. Are you willing to say that most refugees are, by nature of being war refugees, lazy and shiftless and a net negative to society?

No I'm saying they're uneducated, low-skilled, functionally illiterate,and unable to speak the local language, with an incompatible foreign culture and that is what makes them a net negative to society.

Even more so than mentally ill (so are refugees), bankrupt, (so are refugees), jobless (so are refugees) homeless people who at least can read and speak the local language.

>>1713435
>If there were there would be no homeless.
Unfortunately there will always be homeless people. I've worked with many homeless people and the majority of the time if they are sleeping rough, it means a history of either substance abuse, sexual abuse or mental health problems. I don't know where you live but in Western Europe it is quite rare to be forced into homelessness as there is a huge safety net. There is very little you can do for these people beyond giving them the basics for survival. The majority of cases who are not sleeping rough could be helped by providing accommodation but this is often met by backlash from parties who view it as providing for workshy or fraudulent people

>If you magically find the capacity to take in and aid MILLIONS of foreigners, this means that you had resources lying around idle that weren't going toward helping the already existing homeless problem.
Housing a refugee and housing a homeless person are two very different things. Politically and practically.

>lol come on man be serious.
Certain sectors of society are staunchly opposed to any efforts to house the homeless either in vacant private property or through spending tax money. The seem to think "if they get a free house why don't I get one" or along such lines and often accuse the poor of being lazy etc. It's far from uncommon.

>>1713456
>having a phone is part of human dignity
end me

>>1713456
and my whole point is that refugees have a higher degree of autonomy and a more robust support network than local homeless people do. Their reliance on cell-phones is evidence of this.

Here's a question for you, my oh so caring friend. What did refugees do in the days before cellphones?

>>1713457
Beggars can't be choosers.

>>1713473
The lost contact with their families and relied on government programs to get them work, but given that cell phones weren't invented yet, your boss didn't expect you to have a cell phone.

>>1713471
>Unfortunately there will always be homeless people.
and there will always be refugees.

>The seem to think "if they get a free house why don't I get one"
A fair and valid question.

>>1713483
>The lost contact with their families and relied on government programs to get them work, but given that cell phones weren't invented yet, your boss didn't expect you to have a cell phone.
psssst....
Refugees don't have bosses (since they don't have jobs) and are entirely reliant on government programs to get them work.....

>>1713412
In the case I was referring to the boys had escaped from an orphanage with very dubious practices and very little transparency. A number of us suspected there was some form of sexual or physical abuse. It was run by a greek orthodox aid agency and not the greek government so I'm not sure what your point is regarding benefits, etc.

>>1713488
>had escaped from an orphanage
clearly they aren't actually all that desperate for help then if they can afford to be picky.
>A number of us suspected there was some form of sexual or physical abuse.
You already said they are willing to prostitute themselves, so clearly it wasn't "sexual abuse" that made them leave.

>>1713477

You'd think so.

>>1713496
now this is specious reasoning
>because they are refugees, we shouldn't even keep a bare minimum of decency and checks and balances.

>>1713496
>clearly they aren't actually all that desperate for help then if they can afford to be picky.
The chose to live on the streets in Athens rather than stay the orphanage. Take that as you will.

>>1713496
>You already said they are willing to prostitute themselves, so clearly it wasn't "sexual abuse" that made them leave.
I don't know why they left. Though I should clarify that the prostitution occurred after leaving the orphanage. It is quite common for victims of sexual abuse to become involved in the sex industry afterwards, or to become otherwise sexually unstable. All I know is that they decided the would rather prostitute themselves on the streets in Athens than stay at this orphanage. This, combined with my knowledge of the dubious practices of the orphanage and the fact that it is run by the church led me to suspect some kind of abuse, but it's only a suspicion.

>>1713445
>There is not as much negative stigma, but a woman who refrains from sex will be viewed as more morally upstanding than someone who is promiscuous.
That was morality of Europe since long before Christianity, man. That has nothing to do with being ascetic.

> but thet are still viewed favourably
How do you know if they don't exist anymore?

>>1712999
>Are Christians obligated to be pro-immigrant?

Yes, christians are obliged to help their fellow men, to accept them into their homes and share their food and drink, and love them.
Doesn't matter though, since there are no christians left, only empty husks that use the label to feel morally superior to others.

>>1713016
>people were tortured in medieval europe
>thus torture is the christian way

>people were raped in medieval europe
>thus rape is the christian way

>genocide
>raiding
>enslaving
>etc etc etc

>>1713537
>That was morality of Europe since long before Christianity, man. That has nothing to do with being ascetic.
Sure, and Christian morality was heavily influenced by pre-christian European morality. There is definitely continuity there.

>>1713537
>How do you know if they don't exist anymore?
They exist but in small numbers. Fasting is actually becoming a fad at the moment, but it is hailed for health and spiritual reasons rather than Christian devotion.

>>1712999
Depends on whether you want to accept the entire "love thy next one as you do yourself" and all the other hippy stuff christianity claims to be about.

>>1713011
Christians literally are, "turn the other cheek" and so on.

>>1713484
>and there will always be refugees.
I don't disagree, but that's irrelevant.

>A fair and valid question.
Maybe, but again irrelevant. The guy I was replying to seemed to think that there was no such thing as people who were opposed to aid for the homeless.

>>1713496
>Be abused in a dubious orphanage.
>HOW DARE THESE REFUGEES BE PICKY.

>>1714015
being "rescued" from "war" isn't a mcdonals drive-in anon

beggars can't be choosers

>>1712999
The Vatican flooded the US with illegal immigrant illiterates for 30 years, and now we're paying the price.

What price, you ask?

The price of declaring independence in 1776. Vatican is still pissed off at that.

Even more pissed off at the Magna Carta in 1215.

>>1713155
The silent majority never matters.

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Remember anons, ask yourself

What would Jesus do?

>>1713188
>Christians should all be loyal to the Roman Empire
That's what it means though.

>>1713014
Poland is on the phone for you.

Christians always want to claim moral high ground and pretend to emulate their wonderful Jesus.
But suddenly a humanitarian crisis and a chance to help your fellow man, and instead you play deus vult tribalism.
Seems like you guys only want to be Christians when it is easy and funny.
When you have to make a difficult choice now suddenly you are worldly nationalists.

>>1715496
>Even more pissed off at the Magna Carta in 1215.
I doubt it. At that time the Vatican probably had the memory of the Investiture Controversy still fresh.

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>ITT atheists try to tell me how to be a christian

Read Ecclesiastes

>>1715488
>rescued
They ran away.
>"war"
It is an actual war.

You know what else people run away from? Crimes done to them. Like anon's dubious orphanage perhaps?

Be a good christian and help them. Remember: you can't be a nationalist & a christian at the same time.

>>1715496
>The Vatican flooded the US with illegal immigrant illiterates for 30 years
You've been flooded with illiterate immigrants for 200 years. You're fine.

>>1715547
>ITT: 4chan Christians in crisis.
Remember: your religion isnt Burger King. You can't have it your way.

Also New Testament > Old Testament.

>>1715563
Again; read Ecclesiastes.

Your view of these refugees seems to be based on some kind of idealistic; almost cartoonish perspective.

If they were atheists, jews, buddhists or shintoists I would welcome them with open arms. But these people are wolves; and only a fool lets among his flock.

And it isn't even religious discrimination; if the LRA suddenly flooded my country I'd kick them out all the same

>>1715563
Only in jurisprudence. That's because Pharisees were lawyering the code of the Old Testament.

>>1715556
Yes, all illiterate immigrants are the same. The hard working Irish, Polish, Danish and English immigrants have had exactly the same impact as the illiterate Mexicans, Hondurans, Guatemalans and Nicaraguans.

Oh, wait, hold the fucking phone, no they have not.

>state and church should be separated!
>unless the church supports my views; in which case it can freely influence state policy

Libcucks; not even once

>>1715575
Again: your religion isnt Burger King. You can't have it your way.

>>1715592
Yes I can.

There's a difference between loving your enemies and letting them do whatever they want to you.

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>>1715582
>Oh, wait, hold the fucking phone, no they have not.
>Mentions the Irish.
Irish were considered problem immigrants.

People viewed them so badly that during the passing of the Chinese Exclusion Act, some people who sympathised with Chinese migrant workers/wanted such workers in asked why the government shuns hard working people but lets in Irish "drunkards, hooligans, papists, and rebels."

>>1715600
>Refugees
>Enemies
Again: your religion isnt Burger King. You can't have it your way.

>>1715584
Nobody is even talking of the state, just putting questions on 4chan Christcucks.

/pol/ Christcucks confirmed for checkmate.

Chrisitians are obligated to help those in need. Accepting people into your house is one way to help a person in need. Fixing their burnt house which you yourself destroyed, is another way of helping people. Giving them aid, while they themselves fix their broken house is another. The great failure of this argument (and thus its persuasive success) is that it makes the decision seemingly binary. Accept immigrants into your household for all time, or be considered a cruel ruthless uncaring racist. It simply is not the case.

>>1715582
The Irish were the Mexicans of the time lol.

>>1715619
Re-read my posts please. Not all refugees are enemies but these ones certainly are.

>your religion isnt Burger King. You can't have it your way.

Ever heard of syncretism?

>>1715622
Pay unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's.

In matters of state policy an agnostic view should be taken

>>1715553
If you follow the early church or christs words sure, just like you can't be a honourably citizen and a follower of islam either as a proper follower would follow mohammed as close as possible which means they genocide infidels and everything else that mohammed did

everything except orthodoxy is shit anyways

>>1712999
We are only obligated if the Muslims renounce Islam and accept Jesus Christ.

>>1715632
>In matters of state policy an agnostic view should be taken
Christcuck excuses

>>1715663
That still won't solve the problem.

These people are uncouth barbarians of the worst kind; their very upbringing against the Western way of life. I doubt a change of religion will change that

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>>1715678
So you would be 100% OK with fags, trannies and abortion banned then?

>>1715679
Orthodox Arabs are alright

>>1715507

What it actually meant was "The Romans are too strong and they'll fucking murder us if we openly rebel so let's just focus on faith and save that shit for later."

Its really amazing the lengths Christians here (read: neoreactionary larpers) Go to escape the obvious conclusion, that they are morally obligated to render aid to Muslim refugees by their own faith.

They point out how helping these people is contrary to their national and personal interests. This may be true, but its not the point.

>>1715827
Once again, do not throw pearls before swine. Christians are obligated to help Christians, not invading Muslims.

>>1715836
>invading

implying

>Christians are obligated to help Christians, not invading Muslims.

Well your wrong, and bible verses have been posted to illustrate that your wrong, and biggest church in the world says your wrong.

So I can only conclude you dont know what your talking about.

>>1715827
>>1715855
>a fat atheist telling Christians whether they're true ones or not

wew lad.

What if I subscribe to apocrypha?

>>1715865
Well the Catholics would say your not Christian.

I was raised Catholic, and at the time I believed and was taught exactly what I am saying. There was never a doubt in my mind that the moral thing to do was to die for people who hate you, because that was what the church explicitly taught me

>>1715887
The pope means nothing to me; nor do the catholics.

What now?

>There was never a doubt in my mind that the moral thing to do was to die for people who hate you
>this messiah complex

>>1715899
last I checked, Christians were called to live in imitation of Christ. If your not willing to totally give yourself over, why are you a Christian?

>The pope means nothing to me; nor do the catholics.

Ok, so what does mean something to you?

>>1715887
The Catholics would do well to say that Christians are not Catholics.

They would do even better to admit that Catholics are not Christians.

>>1715920
To protect the flock some must become wolves. Read Ecclesiastes

>Ok, so what does mean something to you?


If I was really an esotericist or occultist then probably one of the many apocrypha.

But I do not consider myself of any denomination (maybe Orthodox)

>>1715920
>last I checked, Christians were called to live in imitation of Christ.

Check again, sport.

>>1715630
And look what they did. Moved into law enforcement and fire fighting, and are now some of the best Americans we have.

Mexicans? They just had a fucking Mexican Independence Day parade in fucking Los Angeles!

>>1715942

>Check again, sport.

Ok

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imitation_of_Christ

>In Christian theology, the Imitation of Christ is the practice of following the example of Jesus.[1][2][3] In Eastern Christianity the term Life in Christ is sometimes used for the same concept.[1]

>The ideal of the Imitation of Christ has been an important element of both Christian ethics and spirituality.[4] References to this concept and its practice are found in the earliest Christian documents, e.g. the Pauline Epistles.[3]

>Saint Augustine viewed the imitation of Christ as the fundamental purpose of Christian life, and as a remedy for the imitation of the sins of Adam.[5][6] Saint Francis of Assisi believed in the physical as well as the spiritual imitation of Christ, and advocated a path of poverty and preaching like Jesus who was poor at birth in the manger and died naked on the cross.[7][8] Thomas à Kempis, on the other hand, presented a path to The Imitation of Christ based on a focus on the interior life and withdrawal from the world.[9]

>The theme of imitation of Christ existed in all phases of Byzantine theology, and in the 14th century book Life in Christ Nicholas Cabasilas viewed "living one's own personal life" in Christ as the fundamental Christian virtue.[1][10]

>>1715962

>Try to talk sense, gives me Catholic nonsense.

Look, let me give you a hint.

You're a person with a Last Will and Testament.

When does that Last Will and Testament go into effect?

>>1715981
>Byzantine theology
>Catholic

Check again, sport.

>>1715887
The current Pope may preach this now, but most Popes about history were pretty clear about their stance against foreign religions. Then again, Catholicism is a dying creed so make what you will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCPPQV8W0Xo

Back then, when this speech was given, Catholicism was taken much more seriously.

>>1715989
St. Augustine.
Orthodox

Pick one

>People should be homeless rabbis walking around the Sea of Galilee in imitation of Jesus Christ.

That's you.

>>1715855
lets see

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invasion

noun
1.
an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, especially by an army.
2.
the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3.
entrance as if to take possession or overrun:
the annual invasion of the resort by tourists.
4.
infringement by intrusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2P9bycznfs
>an act or instance of invading or as an enemy
check
>troublesome
check
>harmful
check
>disease
check
>entrance as if to take possession or overrun
checked as fug
>infringement by intrusion
c h e c k e d

by definition it is an invasion

>>1716029
Clearly you didn't read the thing because it cites examples from east and west, going back to Paul.

>People should be homeless rabbis walking around the Sea of Galilee in imitation of Jesus Christ.

While Christianity has always allowed the laity to live "normal" lives that comes with some big caveats. Turning away the sick or poor because its not in your own interest would not fall within acceptable bounds of Christian living.

>>1716035
Would you therefore define any mass migration as an invasion? I get it, you dont like Muslim, I dont care for the religion either, but I can at least admit they are just desperate people trying to flee a bad situation, and I am not so sociopathic that I dont have some pity for them, or would just let them starve in refugee camps, as some countries have done

>>1716029
Saint Augustine said the Spirit principally proceeds from the Father, but also by the Son, not both as one principle. He also said he doubted the rock Christ referred to was Peter. He certainly was not later Roman Catholic in theology.

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>mixing religion and politics

>>1713014
funny how roles reversed

>>1713035
the pope should adress the cause of all these problems, point a finger at the people responsible (american elites). Give us names.

>>1712999
No, remember 1000 years ago where, you know, Christians fucked the Arabs so they would stay off their European lawn?

>>1716612
any unwanted mass immigration is the definition of an invasion

judging by the battering ram against a border fence, they're unwanted

>>1716804
>Muslim Armies = Refugees.
The false dichotomies continue.

>>1716639
>ITT: Christians backed in a corner.

The true Christian position on refugees is to be found in Matthew 15:21-28:

>Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

>Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

>He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

>The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

>He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

It is good and right to help those of other nations with "the crumbs that fall from their master’s table". But that is all. To do more is to deprive our posterity, which Jesus himself said is not right.

>>1715632
>Not all refugees are enemies but these ones certainly are.

>>1715575
>Your view of these refugees seems to be based on some kind of idealistic; almost cartoonish perspective.
Different anon here, but his view of these refugees is far, far more accurate than yours. "Idealistic, almost cartoonish" is exactly how I would describe your perspective.

t. Work with refugees and know a lot of them personally.

If someone has questions about what they are mostly like, fire away

>>1717627
hey, anon.
A person who lives on the other side of the world.

Do any of these refugees look forward to going home when the war is over?

>>1717614
see
>>1717602
>>1716035

if you don't classify an organized group using siege equipment to break down countries' walls, then you obviously don't think that the mongol conquest of china wasn't an invasion either

>>1717627
also
>work with refugees
so your financial future is dependent on how many thirld worlders enters our countries, which means you're just a shill

>>1717638
>Do any of these refugees look forward to going home when the war is over?
It's mixed. Older Syrians and Iraqis are very proud of their countries and want to go back, younger westernised ones mostly want to stay in Europe, "normal" young people are mixed and conservatives I don't know because I didn't talk to them about it. Many people were inviting me to visit Syria when the war is over.

Kurds mostly want to stay in Europe but say that if they get independence that might change.

The Hazaras I spoke to fucking hate Afghanistan and never want to go back.

>>1715547
>my specific brand of christianity has never been tried!

>>1717648
>so your financial future is dependent on how many thirld worlders enters our countries, which means you're just a shill
The work is entirely voluntary, in fact it costs me quite a bit of money for accomodation, travel, etc.

>>1717661
What makes you help the invaders then, as we've already established that it is an invasion?

do you hate the west so much or are you just delusioned by your leftist ideology

>>1717627
>t. Work with refugees and know a lot of them personally.
>If someone has questions about what they are mostly like, fire away

How many of them can actually do the job they are qualified for in english, or another european language?
Because if they can't, they would be construction workers and fruit pickers, and this wouldn't pay for their upkeep, thus they are a burden on countries that already have issues (Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Romania, Hungary - the european front where they should be staying).

>>1717655
>hazaras hating afghanistan.
checks out.

Strangers, in a Judeo-Christian context, are to be treated courteously and morally, but the intimacy of how you treat them has a lot to do with religion. For instance, the Good Samaritan is a shining example of our obligation to others, regardless of religion. However, in the Old Testament, strangers in the land, and the law governing how they are to be treated, mostly has to do with converts--you can tell this since it says they are to be treated as natural Jews, meaning converts are not to be discriminated against as foreigners; that obviously is not applying strangers in the sense of non-converted gentiles, since Jews were not allowed to even eat with gentiles, and Christ clearly feels the same way since he says non-observant Christians are to be treated as gentiles (Matthew 18:17)--as in, do not have them as guests in your house, do not eat with them, and so on.

On the other hand, the Romans were gentiles who were forcibly occupying Israel, and Christ seems pretty indifferent to this. From that we can deduce that while Christ's position, in personal morality, is strictly orthodox, he doesn't care much about politics. As such, I don't think it's quite appropriate to say he'd be either pro or anti immigrant, he'd probably say neither position is going to benefit you in being more godlike, so they are both fruitless.

The Orthodox Church, in speaking out on immigration, ties the position mostly with the Christian position on condemning greed (the exceprt in the OP is from a declaration that also condemns lending at interest), and the Bible certainly does that profusely. That is, regular, "plebeian" support for immigration is not being condemned, rather the issue is corporate shilling and support for immigration *specifically to drive down domestic labor value* (the law of supply and demand certainly applies to labor as much as anything else).
cont

>>1717677
This is a very real motive in corporate shilling for immigration, yet it is, to make it more tenable, dressed as some sort of compassion for third-worlders (which corporations, I assure you, do not have), and the Church is calling them on on this: corporate support for immigrants has nothing to do with compassion, it's about increasing labor supply to decrease value. Also a lot of politicians support immigration just because they see it as increasing the demographic that will vote for them.

The Church also sees what is refers to as the "conflict of [...] different value system," and this is obviously meant to be a jab at Wahhabism. Now since Wahhabis are explicitly concerned with dismantling Christianity and establishing Islamic law, it's pretty reasonable to say they don't belong. If you asked them to take the studies and oaths of citizenship, they really couldn't qualify. These are the people seeking to drive Christians out of their historical homes in places like Syria. They are openly at war with Christ. Inviting them into your homelands makes about as much sense as inviting demons to take possession of your body.

>>1717672
Even if you adopt the thoroughly selfish notion that they have to pay for themselves (or even make you a profit?) they don't have to do this in the first generation. Their children and grandchildren will contribute too. Which is just as well since most of you aren't planning to have any of your own to support you.

>>1717670
>we
>established.
>>1717677
>>1717682
fuck off tranny

>>1717686
see
>>1716035

>>1717691
>take possession
which part of europe have they taken over and declared to be their islamic state?
>intrusion
They are refugees and the European union is aiding them according to the law laid down by the EU.
>troublesome
of course they will be. Their entire lives have been uprooted.
>harmful
sure, which is why you make sure they return when the war is over.
>disease.
what disease are they spreading?

>>1717683
>Which is just as well since most of you aren't planning to have any of your own to support you.

Naturally, as it is cruel to bring children into this economic crisis, where outsiders come in and live on our taxes, while we ourselves have no access to the public wallet we've been funding.

I want my taxes to help raise my children, not help raise other people's children, who didn't pay tax to begin with.
Welfare is a very simple concept - we pool our money so we can all have safety. But when people who didn't pool money come in and start leeching it, that defeats the purpose of it.

My point being, only if we have some low tax, low social benefits system, without welfare, social healthcare, without any sort of state security, a true free market capitalist system, only then are refugees welcome. And the irony is, in that case they wouldn't want to come.

>>1717701
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/657520/Europe-no-go-900-EU-areas-police-lost-control
areas with sharia law where police have no influence, it's the intent that matters though

see the video that i linked before, do refugees use siege equipment to break down nations borders, isn't that the definition of invaders?

they're spreading the disease that is islam

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>>1717670
>What makes you help the invaders then, as we've already established that it is an invasion?
bic reladed

>>1717672
>How many of them can actually do the job they are qualified for in english, or another european language?
Not many have good English. Quite a few more have French but it's still a small minority. Those who had good English would often help out translating in the school or at distributions and were generally really helpful guys. They'll go far. On the other hand there were many who couldn't grasp something as simple as Introductions no matter how much we tried to teach them. Man of them had practical skills which are uncommon in Europe nowadys such as tailors, cobblers etc. These skills could potentially be useful even without English but for most of them it would be a long time before they managed to pay their own way.

There is no question that they will be a financial burden on whatever country decides to take them. The argument that they'll be a boost to European economies is severely misguided. They'll be useful, as you said, as construction workers pr fruit pickers etc.

That said, many of them are educated, but whether a Syrian degree in engineering allows you to compete with European graduates is severely doubtful. As far as I am aware the only place where refugees are being succesfully integrated into the workforce and made useful is Berlin where people give refugees jobs out of charity, and this only goes for a minority of refugees.

>>1717640
>Hurdurr refewgees r rmies cuz of a riot.

>>1717625
HAHAH HE CUT OFF THE PART WHERE JESUS HELPS THE LADY ANYWAY.

>>1717625
Quoting scripture to answer this question is stupid, as the Bible is, as it often ends up being, very undecided on the issue.
In fact it contradicts itself all the time.

Also, >>1717728
You are quoting this out of context.

>>1717728
>>1717730
No, I've literally mentioned it in the next sentence ("crumbs from the master's table"). Anyone familiar with the Bible at even the most basic level knows what happens.

It's not out of context. Jesus isn't lying when he says that “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

>>1717724
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2P9bycznfs

so the mongols breaking into china was also a riot right?

same with the crusaders as they're shouting god is great while they're using battering rams at fortifications

it's just a riot bro

>>1717736
>Mongol armies = refugees.
False dichotomying intensifies.

>>1717735
>Matthew 15:21-28:
>26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
>27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
>28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
Quote the whole fucking thing, Christian loser.

No wonder /his/ is such a cancer.

>>1717735
>Jesus isn't lying when he says that “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

Except she tells him he is, and he agrees.

>>1717741
do "refugees" use siege equipment to break into fortifications?

that's not the definition of a refugee, that's the definition of invaders

>>1717743
>>1717742
He doesn't help her "anyway", he makes an exception due to her faith.

>>1717743
No, she begs him for crumbs from the master's table and receives them.

The whole point of the story is that she isn't helped because it's the right thing to do, but because of her faith in Jesus Christ.

If we are to apply that to the refugee situation, perhaps we should allow the refugees entry on the basis of an honest conversion to Christianity.

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>>1717736
Funny you mention Mongols, Chinese history, and Refugees. Ming and Qing China greatly benefitted from Mongol refugees- often losers in dynastic wars among the Mongol Khans in 16th-17th Century mongolia- who, in turn, utilized their expertise and helped keep out & eventually put down their more "barbaric" brethren. Turns out security under the emperors trumps race loyalties.

A lot of notable Qing generals were Mongol.

>>1717752
So make an exception to the refugees who place their faith on you to help them out, Christfag.

>>1717745
Are they armed in a military manner and do they come as a military force, with a clear objective of invasion?

Nope.

>>1717761
that's not the definition of an invasion though

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/invasion

>>1717763
>dictionary definitions
Desperation intensifies.

>>1717756
We are not Christ.

And rather than demanding as an equal the woman accepted her place as a dog beneath the master's table.

Do the Muslims do so?

>>1717779
>B-but da other religions? Why d-d-dont they do it!!
Tss

>>1717776
>HA HA THAT ISN'T THE DEFINITION OF WHAT YOU'RE WRITING, I'M GOING TO WRITE A DEFINITION OF IT BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT THE DEFINITION IS AND NOBODY ELSE DOES

I accept your defeat

>>1717789
you really have no point.
One of the examples in your own link refers to tourists invading a town.
That is not a hostile takeover.

>>1717792
What else do you call storming borders by force?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35687257?ocid=socialflow_twitter

>>1715887
>There was never a doubt in my mind that the moral thing to do was to die for people who hate you, because that was what the church explicitly taught me

literally being brainwashed into a cuck

>>1713137
>I don't have to help these people (even though Jesus told me to) because they aren't my religion

damn the denial in this thread is crazy

>>1717804
Just like muslims must genocide infidels, otherwise they're not following the actions and words of mohammed

which means muslims can't be good citizens and a muslim at the same time

>>1717797
Its funny how you love posting this example as an invasion. Considering the fact that the refugees just want to pass through the Balkan shithole, not stay there.

>>1717814
>we just want to pass through the outer courtyard to get to the keep and the treasury, not like we are invading it

>>1717810
>I will ignore the teachings of Jesus because of my perception and generalization of a billion people

>>1717818
>i will ignore the teachings of muhammed because they ignore the teachings of christ

>>1717814
I guess Germany never invaded Belgium then.

>>1717821
>I'm more concerned with what I think muslims believe than my own religious convictions

>>1717822
We have already covered the ground of the differences between armies and refugees, Christcuck. Don't you have some helping to do?

>>1717829
You mean like you propose in >>1717818

>>1715954
>Mexicans? They just had a fucking Mexican Independence Day parade in fucking Los Angeles!
And? Plastic Paddies made an Irish Holiday mainstream over the US?

Irish-Americans also funded a terror organization in the UK.

>>1713014
Quite the contrary the more you're catholic more you're against mudslim in your country.

But it's true the catholic clergy is a bunch of globalists.

>>1717829
>my own religious convictions
I don't practice christianity, christs message is a message which leads to downfall when applied practically and the installation of savages, which happened to rome, and is currently happening to europe and USA through the importation of said savages

I only admire christianity for the aesthetics of it (especially orthodoxy) and for what it has created while islam has created a bunch of shitholes which has barely contributed anything of note overall

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>>1712999
>the interests of the capitalist elite, who need a cheap and disenfranchised workforce:


This myth needs to stop. Vast majority of so called refugees are not even allowed to work. Most of them are not interested in doing so anyway. 80% of Somalis in Malmo Sweden are out of work and are living off welfare. 70% of illegal and "legal" mexican immigrants in America are on welfare

Mass immigration is ideologically driven and has nothing to do with economics. It is a program of the left to replace native Europeans in their own country (White Genocide) and force diversity and mutliculturalism. That explains why leftist and marxist anti capitalist parties are always pro immigration and pro open borders.

>>1715954
>its alright to have an irish and a german drinking festival in america
>it is alright to have cinco de mayo because it lets americans booze up.
>having migrants honor their countries of origin means they are taking over america.

>>1717859
Well, I'm Filipino, and we don't throw crusade rhetoric versus our Muslim Minorities. We know well how to separate average cunts from terrorists.

>>1717894
>White Genocide
intothetrashitgoes.jpg.

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>>1717906

Triggered much? Genocide is an appropriate term but since you are so sensitive what about "White Displacement"?

>>1717894
Just because it hasn't worked doesn't mean that wasn't the intention of the decision makers and/or a significant portion of their supporters.

>>1717917
Also just on the rhetorical side of things that angle is more powerful than the white genocide one (though they are not mutually exclusive and I support both), as exposing an elite plan as a complete failure tarnishes their image even in the eyes of their faithful supporters while showing their opponents that the elite makes mistakes and can be beaten.

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>>1713353
You are looking at it from a wrong angle.
In modern society, a phone grants you:
1. Internet access, and a browser to use that

2. A phone number, so you can use phone services. So you can buy a local SIM card, for a local operator, and have that

3. Google translate

4. Netflix & youtube

5. Because PC hardware is more limited outside of the west, the further down in poverty and Arabia you go, PC is not a substitute for these people, and a mid range expensive phone is a status symbol

6. Even without a SIM, it grants you Wifi access

To a middle to upper class refugee, they understand that western nations have legal systems. Which means that google + google translate will in many cases allow them to not go bored, and acquire necessary information if they do go to a host country.
They also use their phones a little differently than Western do, because computers are more rare over there.

>>1716639
The religious IS political.

>>1717912
>America
>a country where whites migrated to largely due to terrible shit happening in europe.
>europe becomes better.
>suddenly this leads to white genocide.

>>1717933
You forgot an important few.

1. Maps to navigate.
2. Ability to talk to other refugees for advice.
3. Ability to find groups near you that can help you.
4. Keeping up with news in a place where you can't just watch the local coverage or radio.
5. Able to go to the fucking toilet or to buy food and not have the whole tribe wait for your return so you don't get lost, you can call and ask where to find them if they moved.

>>1717912
Muslims are like 3% of the population of the European Union.
If this is a genocide, its very poorly executed.

>>1713166
>People literally being this autistic

>>1713217
Nice one.

>>1717964
It's birth rates that matter. It wouldn't nearly as nefarious as if they brought in enough to trigger local response immediately.

>>1717912
Not displacement either, people aren't forced to leave their homes

>>1717992
So your real complaint is that women don't want to have sex with you, and prefer Abdul's cock to yours?

>>1717992
So, do you assume that muslims will keep on having babies forever?

>>1718011
>tiq'tuan, why do you not want the europeans to come over to america, is it because you don't get the poos?

except this time it's the savages that's coming to the civilized nations to colonize

>>1718019
So you are abandoning the birth rate argument and going back to the old one?

>>1718020
that wasn't me, you haven't even refuted his point, you've just thrown an ad hominem

you haven't refuted any of our arguments, so we accept your surrender, but it's okay because it's your feelings that matters

>>1718026
you really have the most specious of arguments, on par with the strawmen that you are attacking.

Refugees aren't coming in with a grand plan to overrun europe and create a caliphate. they are people escaping a civil war. Most refugees are from the levant or north africa, places that are geographically close to europe.

>>1718036
see
>>1716035

>>1715865
Nice ad hom

>>1718026
If the argument is birth rate, than your problem with immigrants is that their virility is higher than your own.
I can't not make this into an insult, because it just fits so nicely.

>>1718038
its a fucking dictionary definition dumbass.
It includes an example of tourists invading a resort, wherein the word is used to create a humorous effect in comparing a sudden glut of tourists to that of an invading army.

Well organized groups of muslims led by their leaders aren't invading europe and creating their new sharia states. They are largely refugees who are being interred in refugee camps, and being processed.

Your argument is as terrible as the leftist one which says that a bunch of unskilled laborers who cannot speak local languages will do skilled labor that is required in a modern economy that is based on services.

>Implying Jesus knew anything about socioeconomics and mass immigration
I hate this kind of shit, if your going to try to appeal to my religious side, don't misquote or twist the words of someone who's supposed to be my religions savior, it's pretty insulting.

Anyway I doubt Jesus would want you to kill your home town by literally importing people into it who will just mooch off an already failing system.

>>1712999
>rants about the hedonistic, liberal, elites
>completely ignores the self-interest of this decision
Well I've never heard the Orthodox Church be accused of being self-aware.

>>1718090
>all powerful all knowing being
>but I know better
555-come-on-now

>>1718056
you're just repeating yourself at this point

>>1718043
the argument is that it's an invasion

>>1718126
Point out to me where Jesus talked in socioeconomics and immigration in the bible, don't give me the "he knew everything" crap, I know that, I want you to give be the exact verse where he specifically taught his followers on immigration and how his followers should do it.

>>1718158
Yeah, because Jesus was only talking about dude's getting paid in a vinyard. He wasn't talking about more general life lessons. Nope, just that it's okay to pay people the same amount despite working the same period of time. No subtext or metaphors anywhere. It's all perfectly literal.

>>1718043
>virility
having alot of children is a sign of poverty and lack of education, if anything the increased birthrate is a sign that we shouldn't import them as it's an obvious sign of less developed peoples (wether it be mentally, culturally or physically)

>>1718182
>europe facing a declining population problem
>instead of having more babies europeans turn their noses up.

>>1718182
>having children means you are stupid

:)

>>1718186
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate

do you notice a trend?

>>1718183
you will always get a declining population in the end, you can't increase and increase and increase, it's better for the bubble to loosen some amount of air rather than bursting, not to mention the environmental benefits and so on

>>1718179
Good quote there man, really provided me with a source from the text and not from out your ass while being condescending.

>>1718194
>correlation equals causation
The fact that you can see no other explanation for this makes me question your intelligence.

>>1718194
Yeah, I notice a correlation between smartphone usage and fertility. This proves beyond a doubt that mobile phones fry our testicles.

>>1718212
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20%3A1-16

>>1718215
Thank you

>>1717683
>expecting people to actually contribute to the society that helps them
>ugh how selfish

Neck yourself cuckie; this is why your parents are disappointed in you

>) they don't have to do this in the first generation. Their children and grandchildren will contribute too
Or they might leach off of welfare as well; it's russian roulette but with a whole continent at stake.

>>1718011
>he can't make a post without inserting his cuck fetish

Is it a mental illness or something?

>>1718179
*not working the same period of time

>>1718213
>fucking proven that the more educated and prosperous a country gets the birth rate decreases
>one of the major solutions to overpopulation is raising the global life standard so people can have less kids
>nuh uh u rong xD

>>1718213
>>1718214

>muh gorrilation equls cuzition

correlation equals correlation

this means that we must now chug battery acid as it's only a correlation between drinking it and dying, remember kids, correlation doesn't equal causation, this means that nothing is linked to anything and you can do whatever you want

i'm certain now that both of you are trolls as you haven't disproved any of our arguments so far and you keep on repeating your points which already has been disproven

>>1718194
In poor countries children are pretty much your rent and senior insurance. They dont have much choices

>>1718257
Are you saying that if I don't drink battery acid, I will never die?

>>1718259
yes, that's why it's a big sign of why we shouldn't import them, they're poor for a reason, their nation is poor for a reason, reasons which stem from poor decision making/a shit culture or shit genes, all which are unwanted if you want a stable prosperous nation

>>1718261
>they are poor for a reason
>it's because of genetics.
flawless logic there.

>>1718253
>>1718257
I can't believe that two people are this stupid.

We aren't even talking about overpopulation. We are talking about birth rates by themselves proving the relative inherent intelligence of populations.

>>1718276
He said it's either shit genes or a shit culture.

Personally I think it's the culture or whatever

>>1718280
Only we aren't, stop lying.

The argument was that countries with a higher birth rate are stupider (less educated) than the ones with low; which is 100% true

>>1718289
>countries are measured on a scale of intelligence.
dank.

>it is either genes or shit culture

Or maybe the countries themselves have low levels of social safety dictated by big government, so people invest in their children instead?

>>1718289
>we are talking about EDUCATION (not inherent intelligence)
Well then stop talking about birth rates and talk about easily citable education levels within countries instead of making these ridiculous and unnecessary correlations.

>>1718293
.. and they have low levels of social safety because their country is shit, which is dictated by the inhabitants ability to produce wealth and to protect their country, which in the end all comes down to genetics

>>1718293
>countries can't be measured on a scale of intelligence

The autism is real.

>low levels of social safety dictated by big government
Explain Russia

>>1718300
>it's because their country is shit
No. Middle eastern nations have large quantities of oil and are in theory quite capable of providing for a well endowed nanny state.
They are also ruled by autocratic rulers for the most part, who focus on repressing the population to hold on to power.
>>1718304
Oil bux, and the implosion of the SU.

>>1718315
So they can't defend themselves from neither poverty or from tyranny, even less of a reason to import them

>>1718325
>people who don't actually need your help are the ones that should be helped in a humanitarian crisis
>people who need help are clearly weak and poor and don't deserve our help.
Are you a highwayman?

>>1718330
If you knew anything about history you'd know that bringing in large amounts of alien and barbaric people is a bad idea (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_War_(376%E2%80%93382)#Background) for example, they would bring a significant increase in crime rate compared to the natives here, they would soak up tax in order for them to bring more of them in in order for more tax to be spent and then it's a full loop, it's not a good idea for me, my country, or my civilization, so there's no reason for us to help them, when they haven't helped us, and they own't help.

>>1718330
>>1718350
If they weren't muslims i'd probably accept it as they would be followers of some more civilized religion or ideology but they wouldn't be where they are now if they weren't anyways, as they're quite genetically close to europeans

>>1712999
As a catholic I can safely say that. No, we are not. Google it.

And no wonder people convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, perhaps I shall find myself a Russian or Greek and do the same?!

>>1719184
Have you ever read the Catholic stance on social justice?