Let's have an Art History thread (No shit after 1960)

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>>1712226
>btw Baroque is the pinnacle of western art.
and this is proof

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Medieval is the pinnacle of Western art.

>>1712232
baroque periods are usually reviled as stagnant, because they just pile up on extra bullshit. baroque music and the baroque periods in asia are some of their worst art

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>>1712226

>>1712226
What is wrong with that woman's back?

>>1712304
"Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."

>>1712309
it signifies the material properties of the canvas you dweeb. it is the perfect expression of the properties inherent to painting as a distinct medium. i bet you love formalist film and music but you don't think twice about formalist art.

>>1712313
I loathe formalism.

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Kitschfags ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the right is a better work of art than the left

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>>1712304
Americans can't into art.

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>>1712314
so you like postmodernism?

>>1712325
No, see
>>1712278

>>1712318
they just took it to its logical conclusion. you know that abstract expressionism, in formalist theory, is a continuation of cubism and futurism?

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>>1712327

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>>1712328
>abstract expressionism, in formalist theory, is a continuation of cubism and futurism?
So?

>>1712343
so they just took it to its logical conclusion. they can into art, to a more complete degree than anyone else had into art

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>>1712341

>>1712350
If your definition of "complete degree" means "avant-garde," which is basically Whig history applied to art.

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>>1712350
>muh logic
ok senpai

>>1712369
Father Seraphim Rose is right, formalism started with worship and accentuation of the flesh, and ended up as an expression of violence against the human form, a kind of mutilation of the human to make it subhuman, almost demonic.

>>1712313
formalism is theoretically about composition, but in reality, is fucking ugly to display almost anywhere but a corridor filled with other formalist pieces

I've seen like, half a dozen examples of tasteful displays of formalist art, ever

also, formalist film is a minimalist expression of a medium whose primary flaw is that it already lacks depth, so yes, formalist film is awful

The 19th century is the pinnacle of Western art. Right as it was dying.

1789 - 1914 basically.

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>>1712226
>anything other than romantic
Bierstadt/Aivazovsky 2016

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I'm a fan of De Stijl and cubism for some reason, though I'd never say they were the most beautiful. My go-to is always Botticelli.

>>1712364
cubism and futurism are avant-garde, yes

>>1712510
And they are valued *solely* because of that, Otherwise they wouldn't have had such brief lifespans.

>>1712377
well that generally was where formalist works were displayed before formalism fell out of favour. we say they're ugly now because the specific historical moment when it was the most theoretically advanced art has long since passed

>>1712279
>stagnant
"no"

yes baroque art has a lot of complexity which is probably too much for your feeble mind but calling it stagnant makes no sense. There is so much movement and flow in Baroque art compared to anything before. It's one of the defining features, pleb.

>>1712392
the 19th century was the death of western art. it set the precedent for meaningless display art since that's what people who had no knowledge of art wanted on the market. the 16th century is probably the 'pinnacle'

>>1712516
i'm not sure i get what you're arguing

>>1712401
>romantic
how's middle school?

>>1712611
in terms of movement and flow, what makes the baroque better than rococo? i think the (italian) baroque is defined more by dynamism than flow.

>>1712626
I'm saying the only judge of their quality is how current year they are. There is no other metric to say they have quality.

>>1712638
>There is no other metric to say they have quality.
Welcome to art.

>>1712638
what about their success at realising theory, as in the case of all western art since the renaissance? it's not like cubist originals cost $50 to buy. they're 100 years old and aren't really current year at all, especially considering most of contemporary art owes more to duchamp than it does picasso

>>1712643
>extremely modernist conceptions of artistic quality compromises "artistic quality" in an absolute sense
"No"

>>1712651
They are recognized for being avant-garde in their time. No contemporary cubist piece would be highly respected

>>1712665
*comprises

>>1712665
>artistic quality
"No"

>>1712665
yeah because like i said, contemporary art owes more to duchamp than picasso. a contemporary conceptual work (for the sake of convenience i will say duchamp is conceptual and not proto-conceptual) is advanced both 'in its time' 100 years ago and today

that's because the theory is relevant and its by the intellectual aspects of a work that we judge its quality rather than the optical, because optical works (such as those prevalent in the 19th century) are the television of the art world

>>1712669
If you're talking about formalism, I must concur

>>1712679
The prizing of the avant-garde as the only important quality predates either of them, it was gaining a lot of strength by the late 19th Century, it just didn't become predominant until the 20th.

>>1712686
>The prizing of the avant-garde as the only important quality

i've just been talking about how that isn't the only important quality. for example, retromodernism and remodernism aren't concerned with being the most avant-garde; they're interested in re-exploring aspects of earlier modernism maybe because they see the theory still has relevant applications in the contemporary market and isn't exhausted as if 'avant-garde' wasn't the only quality

or why, as another example, would technically-proficient photography be as popular as it is on the art market if the contemporary art world was only concerned with being new? or how about the artists who view the 'avant-garde' movement as a thing of the past and seek to reconcile or develop it?

>>1712610
I'm not entirely sure formalism was ever the most advanced.

and formalist work being inherently undisplayable outside of fucking already ugly art deco and postmodern architechture kind of makes it fucking ugly

in fact, modern architecture has eliminated the need for internal display art, for better or worse, because it's constructed out of a desire for beauty out of inherently ugly materials such as rebar and steel suspension ropes

I can't figure out if singapore changi is uglier, and singaporean design in general because of how inhuman it is, or whether crowded urban spaces which at least are forced to maximize space in a human fashion, such as tokyo malls are uglier. because both of these are natural extensions of formalist principles, trying to build beauty from unhuman blocks of design.

formalism is a fucking unending curse upon humanity

>>1712611
baroque is too over the top. it's unliveable. its purpose is to be sequestered away. classical architecture is better, it conveys a universal spirit, it leaves room for striving and spirit without flowers. the same applies to art.

this same thing is witnessed in east asian art/architechture. spaces lose traction as areas for facilitatng social purpose and the intent of their creators begins to completely usurp and overwhelm individuals. baroque is just another form of brutalism.

>>1712621
Like I said it was dying, but it that's when it produced its greatest works.

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>>1712679
Why cant an artwork be both 'optical' (retarded term desu) and conceptual?

>>1712226
>(No shit after 1960)
Why not? The sticky has the 25 year rule, but even pushing the envelope a bit the YBAs and the Stuckist reaction for example is very much dead and historical.

>>1713826
they can. renaissance works and academic history painting (pre-19th-century) fall under this category

i really wish every art thread didnt devolve into idiots who've at most glanced at a history of art book arguing certain periods are better or all 'modern' art is shit or whatever

maybe post a painting/sculpture/whatever and describe what you actually like about it? whether it's the technique/context/concept or anything else you think of

>>1712392
>The 19th century is the pinnacle of Western art. Right as it was dying.
How fucking pleb can you get. The 19th century was absolute shit. The complete rotten and degenerate nadir of western art. The pinnacle of western art was the Dutch Golden Age.

>>1712635
rococo is just bourgeois family portraits and rich people shit.

>>1713962
Not because I dislike it but because art pieces after that time period have always been privileged over older art due to their chronological advantage and relation to our times.

>>1712226
If it ain't Baroque, don't fix it

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Say lads, what is some top tier historical art I can decorate my apartment with?

>>1714849
I think that's tacky unless you bought an original. This is my extreme and stupid opinion.

>>1714852
B-but I'll never be able to afford the original..

>>1714860
Paint your own then you dick

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>>1714866

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>>1714871

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>>1714872
>

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I like ching chong ping pong zhing zhong art.

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>>1714873

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>>1714885

>>1714860
Check out some local or small-time artists that paint in a style you like.

>>1712278
How did anyone ever think this looks good

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Utamaro is probably one of my favourite artists.

>>1712226
>baroque
>not gothic
baroque to gothic is what postmodernism is to modernism

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>>1712226
>>1714871
>>1714873
>>1714885

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>>1714933
based romanticism

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>>1714947

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>>1714953

>>1714947
>>1714953
It just seems so kitsch these days.

>>1714960
Youre just dead inside fampai

>>1714964
Well I think that's a little strong.

>>1714970
Well at least youre not romantic then.

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What was the psychoanalysis point on surrealism again? Did they really misunderstand everything?

>>1712226
What's in that pipe on the right?

>>1715099
Some bomb ass opium.

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>>1715101

>>1712706
>would technically-proficient photography be as popular as it is on the art market if the contemporary art world was only concerned with being new?
Photography is a lot cheaper to buy, it's more comparable to cinema than painting.

>>1715072
surrealism valued the unconscious as much as they valued the conscious (or even more so). the point of surrealism was to reconcile the two distinct realities by letting the unconscious bleed into the waking conscious to create a 'true reality' or a 'super reality'. initially this was done through 'automatism' or working yourself into a kind of trance to tell stories and eventually this was applied to the visual arts as well a few years after the release of the first surrealist manifesto. it was supposed to be a revolutionary idea and one of liberation.

dali also contributed the paranoiac-critical method and bataille had something to do with the idea of 'form' but i'm not so clear on these

>>1715378
and people buy it because it's accessible. it hasn't got a lot to do with how avant-garde it is. there is also avant-garde photography

>>1714871
Welp, I just fell in love with a painting. :/

>>1714960

its just that the guy posted some of CDFs worst paintings, IMHO

is it popular? yes. will people who dk shit about art gobble it up? yes.

but that doesnt make him a bad painter, or kitsch.

a porcellain angel, now thats kitsch.

>>1716504
And if photography consumption were limited by very high prices, the buyers would be much more selective, and stick mainly to the avant-garde artwork.

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>>1712226
rococo is beauty

>>1712226
Orientalism was a mistake

>>1717695
no they'd buy something that is guaranteed to have value, which is why there is very little avant-garde film, music, or television.

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>tfw ernst fuchs is the pinnacle of western visual art