> spent billions on super ultra mega ship > it's too

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Regal ship Vasa

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>beyond autistic
absolutely
>greatest waste of money in history
possibly, the only other that comes to mind is the field of cloth of gold when Henry VIII spent shit loads of money to build a temporary palace just to party with Francis I and improve relations, then makes an alliance with Charles V later that year

>>1707144

A quick glance at Wikipedia reveals that the BB-35 Texas saw a shitload of war. WTF are you talking about.

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> greatest waste of money

>>1707160
>always find a way to slither out of harms way while other nordic nations get dragged into war
>always find ways to profit while the rest of Europe is fighting in a war by selling weapons, supplies or producing steel to both sides
why would you even need a navy?

>>1707251
>25-50% of the money in scotland
holy shit

>>1707284
yup, whole five pebbles

>there greatest waste of money in history of everything
Mansa Musa's haji

>>1707144
Battleships were extensively used so maybe you can explain to us what this thread is about?

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>most expensive and largest ship in the entire Imperial navy
>literally used only on two-three escort missions
>then bombed all to shit by the US
>still somehow a symbol of NIPPON STRONK

I will never understand the boner for such a useless vessel.

>>1707386
IJN boats were generally not used much. It's not just the Yamato.

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>implying it still doesn't happen.

Pic related, they wanted 30 - built 2 and scrapped the rest. A multi billion dollor waste, probably never to be used to it's fullest extent.

Such stealth, many wows.

No, The money was used to fund the works of people building the ship.

>>1707430

Can you please stop posting this is like every thread? Or at least post a source occasionally?

>>1707430
The research and engineering knowledge gained still benefit us to this day and will help with future innovations down the road


What's your angle? Should've built the 30? Not spend bother with Research and Development at all?

>>1707144
Texas holds five battle stars.

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>>1707144
>Was there greatest waste of money in history of everything?!

What's the word for a political project that involves massive amounts of spending for little or no purpose other than bleeding money?

I've been trying to find it for a while with no success.

>>1707892
White Elephant projects?

>>1707901
Nah its a single word. Kind of reminds me of the word doppelganger for some reason, but possibly only because of the number of syllables in it and the lack of recognizable root words. I honestly can't remember.

This has been bugging me for weeks so any help is greatly appreciated.

>>1707901
Not sure if this helps but the last time I remember reading about it, it was used to refer to a Clinton spending project in the 90's.

I also believe it was used to describe the Reagan Star Wars program.

>>1707892
boondoggle

>>1707927
Moneypit/sink?

>>1707949
Thank you!!!

>spend billions on nuclear arsenal
>never use them

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>>1707966
>spend billions on nuclear arsenal
>never use them
>deny that you even have nukes
Literally why?

>>1707386
>when they launched it caused a minor flood
>get sunk like a bitch and do nothing

Dreadnoughts were the same way. They were extraordinarily expensive and whats more, they made every previous class of warship virtually obsolete. The Dreadnoughts were at the forefront of the naval race between Britain & Germany, but when war came, they spent the majority of the war sitting in ports because they were too valuable to risk being sunk.

>>1707998
If you really want your pants to stay up, you use a belt and suspenders, not one or the other.

Keeps your ass from hanging out at an inopportune time.

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>>1707430
>that design

>>1707998
Doesn't matter how much they plead innocence, that's only to circumvent legal issues. Everybody with an ounce of wit knows they're loaded with nukes, and that's all that matters to Israel. Arab world ain't fucking with them on any large scale.

Maybe that's why all these Zionist shills are at the edge of their seats over Iran acquiring WMD, but will turn a blind eye to Israel's nuclear status. Can't level the playing field in MENA.

Battleships look cool and you can park them off the coast of an enemy nation as intimidation, overall it's a good use of money

>>1708175
They spent the majority of the war sitting in ports because the Germans didn't dare leave the ports. The Brits were very eager to use their dreadnoughts.

>>1707359
kek

>>1707271
During cold war they had a formidable military.

>>1708248

This is true. Sweden used to be one of the top military powers in the world.

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>>1708188
I think it looks cool desu

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>>1707144
>spend billions on a weapons system never to use it.
>post a picture of the vehicle which guaranteed free trade on the high seas for whomever built the best of them.

Is op literally a faggot or is this bait?

>>1708221
The ability to claim or challenge dominion on the high seas was/is crucial, and before aircraft you did that using battleships. You cant blame governments for not gambling with their access to the ocean.

>tfw age of battleships is over

>>1707359
True and underrated

>>1707251

i blushed reading this

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>>1707251

>25-50% of all money

Damn.

>>1709047
Plus 'fleet in being' is a thing, and it's very important.

>>1707251
>Bankrupting yourselves to foreign rule.
Is Scotland unique in history?

>>1709600

Current day Greece comes to my mind.

>>1709047
Germany had no access to the ocean. They gambled that they could challenge the naval status quo, but half-assed it, and ended up spending billions of back then money just to hand the fleet over at the end of the war with the fleet used just once.

It was worse with the Japs who had severely limited resources to allocate to their navy yet decided that fuckhueg battleships were the way to go.

>>1709930
You mean the same Japan that built 8 carriers vs 2 battleships in the 20 years between WW1 and WW2?

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>>1707144
>there greatest waste of money in history of everything?

>>1709998
I wonder if 5 billion in value has been extracted from the pyramids at giza over the millenia.

>>1710011

Where do you get 5 billion from?

>>1707430
lol as fuck. That's the most retarted looking boat ever designed. "Holy shit, the enemy has launched it's big grumpy cartoon rhino-boat, everybody run!"

>>1707966
>>1709019

Do people unironically think this? Their existence and deployment is their use.

>>1707913
Boondoggle

>>1707430
Protip:
It's a tech demonstrator and testbed. The navy does this with submarines as well.

>>1711118
>It's a tech demonstrator and testbed.

So then why did they build more than one? Why did they want to build 30?

>>1710043
I don't understand the purpose of your post. Are you arguing that for a boat to be useful on modern war it has to past your personal aesthetics test?

>>1709910
Well.

Not exactly.

Germany has invested a lot into their fleet but remember about their plans for WW1.

Get France to surrender quickly, focus on Russia, contain it. British were a nuance on the western front(annoying nuance and their containment plan rated combat ability of BEF very, very highly but in the grand scale of things it was too small to matter). Do you see any naval action here? Welp. There's none.

The point of dreadnought race was to make grounds for actual competition with Great Britain after WW1 was over. As such German High Sea Fleet was an important and powerful navy BUT British still dominated and at pre-war rate they would dominate forever.

>>1711132
Upper bound depending on the demand of the time. You can't really tell if you will need that many new boats 15 to 20 years in the future. Maybe also the company offered a goo deal on many ships, but in the end the US gov couldn't shell out for it?

>>1711159
Nah.

The reality is that Obama had to cut spending on something and as usual the navy got fucked.

That being said Zumwalt is a disgrace and indeed more of a testbed than a real combat-worthy ship. So in the end it ended well because they would actually buy 30 of these.

>>1711072
This.

>>1710043
I don't know, it looks really menacing to me. Like some mysterious vessel from sci fi movies

>>1711141
Your understading of my argument is correct yes.

>>1711146
You are just making Germans sound more retarded than they actually were.

>>1710031
tourism?

>>1709600
>a few middle eastern countries

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>>1707793

>>1711132
Because it's the surface equivalent of the seawolf.

eyou can expect a new surface combatant to be designed that features all of the zumwalts advancements at less cost and with fewer kinks to replace the burke.

>>1709930
That's because in the interwar period, due to poor aerial torpedoes and poor payloads for carrier launched planes and to add to that, a relatively small complement of aircraft (~40 strike aircraft). They were rightfully relegated to a support role to battleships.

>>1711495

The Dreadnought race was the Nuclear arms race of the turn of the century. He who controlled the oceans, controlled the world.

>>1712390
No it was not like the nuclear arms race at all. In the nuclear arms race, you had to have enough nukes to make the other guy not want to start shit with you. You did not have to ensure dominance. Dreadnought race was very different, in fact the complete opposite kind of a race to the nuke race.

>>1707913
You're thinking of boondoggle, but that's not necessarily intentionally expensive and useless, it just IS expensive and useless.

>>1712512
You mean like the B2 Spirit? There is what, 22 ever made, and how many have seen action?

>>1707386

Its a fucking crime how they squandered this beauty

>mfw the Yamato museum has a 1/10 scale model on display and a bunch of artefacts from the wreck

Best fucking thing I saw in Japan

>>1707430

The fuck do you need a stealth ship in this class anyway, was this the height of MUH STELF retardation?

>>1708175

I feel like they did use them a bunch though

>>1708192

They'll never use them they are fucking arsehole to elbow with their enemies even the smallest yield nuke will ruin them with fallout and contamination

>>1711146

Nuisance not nuance holy fuck

>implying France, their eternal enemy wasn't the priority for the Boche

>>1711146
>The point of dreadnought race was to make grounds for actual competition with Great Britain after WW1 was over
No, because the Fleet underwent planning and construction years before WWI was even a possibility.

The purpose of the Fleet was to Force Britain to change it's policy towards Germany. That could only happen with the ability to threaten it's empire. Whenever that happened, the British became conciliatory. They did it to the French, they did it to the Russians, they did it to the Japanese, and they did it to the Americans.

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>>1712597

The obvious answer is that it gives you a platform that you can use to evaluate the effectiveness of stealth ships during war-games. You can then use that knowledge to guide future procurement decisions.

Keep in my that minimizing RCS has become a very standard part of warship design, all around the world. The Zumwalt is just an example of a big ship that takes the concept further than most. The Swedish Visby-class corvette is another example of a modern warship that puts a premium on RCS reduction. However, the Visby is a small gunboat, whereas the Zumwalt is enormous.

However, RCS reducing features have made there way into many other modern ship designs that aren't easily recognizable as stealth ships, such as the Daring destroyer class.

>TL:DR stealth is very common in warship design now, get over it

>>1712631
This.

We live in an age where the first missile strike is likely the last missile strike, so everything in warfare is counting on being the first ones to launch that missile.

Supposedly there's an estimate that if an open US-Russian war suddenly broke out, the predicted life expectancy of every deployed US tank in the Mideast is like 15 minutes.

>>1711329

I appreciate your honesty

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>>1707144

>Be United States Army circa 2004
>Have literally one of the greatest combat uniforms ever designed
>Replace it with a piece of shit that's twice the cost, rips like toilet paper, will freeze it's wearers to death like it's Operation Barbarossa all over again, and has a camouflage pattern so shitty that you'd be better off going on patrol naked than wearing it.

>Entire program cost well over $5 billion (half a billion more than a Nimitz-class carrier)

This is why we will lose the next war. Badly. I mean Nazi Germany in '45 badly.

>>1712752

That camo gets a lot of hate, but it did blend in well in the mountains of Afghanistan, which is where the US was fighting at the time. But while it looked hilariously ugly almost anywhere else, it did suit the combat environment very well.

>>1712752
I'm not a /k/ommando or anyone "in the know" in this sort of thing, but isn't most American military spending basically just corporate welfare?

I mean if the underlying assumption is that it'll never be used in a "real" war then there's no real need for it to be as effective as it's claimed to be, right?

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>>1707386

>most expensive and largest ship in the entire Kriegsmarine
>literally sunk on it's MAIDEN VOYAGE like some Titanic shit
>commanded by a depressed half-Jewish admiral who hated Hitler's guts and probably would've defected if it weren't for the fact his family would wind up on the next train to Auschwitz
>sank one antiquated battlecruiser
>rendered inoperable by an even more antiquated biplane using malfunctioning torpedoes
>Had the shit beaten out of it by a half dozen British warships and sank with almost all hands lost
>still somehow a symbol of MUH INVINCIBLE WEHRABOO

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>>1712764
>it did blend in well in the mountains of Afghanistan
>implying anything blends well in Afghanistan

Well in that case, they should've made a limited number of ACUs and issued them exclusively to units deployed to Afghanistan and kept BDU for everywhere. Not FUCKING REPLACED EVERYTHING WITH IT.

Afghanistan is literally snow, woodland, and desert rolled up into one shithole country. Literally nothing is to be 100% perfect there. You'd be better off just issuing all the troops two pairs of uniforms and helmet covers in desert and woodland patterns and have them change it as necessary.

>>1712770
This man is from /k/.

As another /k/ poster, I would like to ask you not to engage him directly in conversation, or make eye contact.

>>1712770
Multicam won by Crye Precision wanted some insane royalties. The Army was also trying to redefine itself and have a unique identity, so they throw out the results and chose UCP. Universal Camo Patttern has a blue hue to it due to the wonderful combination of sage green and grey. Now 12 years later, they adopted Scorpion which is knock-off Multicam which they originally had developed in 2004.

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>>1712770
>isn't most American military spending basically just corporate welfare?

Pretty much, at least that's the case with the most outrageous programs like the F-35, various M16 replacements, and most of the surface fleet.

Programs that spend billions of dollars, yet fail to produce a satisfactory product.

>>1712873
>he's talking shit about muh planefu

You wanna do this right here, faggot?

We can do this right here.

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>>1712844

How 'bout just going back what worked rather squandering even more money on a complete piece of shit?

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>>1712875

Let's do it.

>>1712878
Fucking leafs. Marines wanted a new camo pattern to distinguish themselves so they copied CADPAT. Soldiers got jelly and copied MARPAT. Air Force wanted to be Army so they did tiger stripe UCP and Navy wanted to hide in the water so they did blue camo.

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>>1712873

>Having the most powerful military in the world is not a good enough result.

>>1712881
OKAY YOU MILK DRINKING NANCY BOY

Well, the F-35 program certainly suffered it's teething problems, but it costs less as a proportion of US GDP than the F-16 did, and it represents a capability that the US didn't have before, and no foreign opponent can realistically match.

In the last few wars the US has fought, teen series fighters and legacy bombers have been unable to penetrate air defense systems such as the S-75 without incurring inacceptable losses. This left the US reliant on Tomahawks and B-2s for essentially all of their strike sorties into contested airspace. The F-22 can and has dropped bombs, but it isn't designed for that role, and it is at best a supplementary asset.

Having several thousand VLO fighter-bombers means that the number of strike sorties over an area with serious air defense can dramatically escalate, with no realistic way to counter them, and any air to air engagement is essentially certain to end in US victory.

The current wave of criticism stems from people expecting a DoD project to be on time and on budget, which is about as realistic as trying to make snow angels in the Atacama desert.

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>>1712890
>most powerful military in the world
>Can't defeat a bunch of goatfucking cavemen
>Too scared of "muh insignificant casualties" to put the boot on ISIS
>Will probably be slaughtered en masse by Russians if Hillary wins

kek, the US has had nothing but military disasters since 1991. We hit our apex with the Gulf War and it's been nothing but one fiasco after another since then.

>>1712924

>most powerful military in the world

Yes.

Not even Russia denies this.

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>>1712908

>no foreign opponent can realistically match

Except the Chinese already stole it's schematics (presumably either through bribery, cyber-warfare where they actually have an edge over us, or Israel stabbed us in the back again) and are already developing their own version.

>inb4 it's made in China so it must suck meme

It doesn't need to be perfect to be a serious threat. If the Chinese can build more of them and contest our control of the skies, it's accomplishing it's mission.

Remember, the Germans lost quite a few vaunted ME 262s to pistol-driven aircraft.

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>>1712949

>If the Chinese can build more of them

That's a very, very, very big IF.

They can't even make good engines yet. They're still very dependent on Russia.

>>1712949
>research and engineering are the same thing
>a country that uses Russian copies can suddenly make VLO aircraft by the thousands

pls

>>1712647
>Supposedly there's an estimate that if an open US-Russian war suddenly broke out, the predicted life expectancy of every deployed US tank in the Mideast is like 15 minutes.
If there is, it's wild bullshit.

>>1712808
Actually, there were/are multiple patterns for DDPAT and the ACUs were no exception. The highland desert pattern was just standard because that is where deployments took place. Hell, the Marine Corps usually wore the woodland DDPAT and called it MARPAT because the Army never wore the woodland version.

>>1712924
>>Will probably be slaughtered en masse by Russians if Hillary wins
unlike based trumpepe, who will falcon punch putin and kill all the brown people.

>>1707386
WWII is when the world realized that having YUGE BIG GIGANTIC ships, tanks, planes, anything, isn't worth it. You should instead get 50 normal ones for the same cost.

>>1707144
Not a waste of money, but during the Balkan war Bulgaria mobilized HALF the men in the country. Practically every person who could fight, was forced to fight. Bankers, doctors, lawyers, poets, everyone was drafted, everyone went to fight. Then they mass assaulted Ottoman fortresses, took them quickly with huge losses. At the end of the war they didn't get to keep the two biggest goals they had - their old cities of Solun (now Thessaloniki) and Odrin (now Edirne).
That all in gamble war failing practically relegated Bulgaria to the status it has since.

>>1707386
To be honest it did exactly what it set out to do, gave the Americans something to shoot at while the other Japs ran away.

>>1712774
>>sank one antiquated battlecruiser
And scared the shit out of the British. The sinking of the Hood brought England closer to the brink of surrender than the Blitz and Dunkirk.

I'm not defending superbattleships, but you have to remember they are in a class of their own, and their propaganda value mean a lot more to the people who built them then their military accomplishments.

You're also forgetting the Tirpitz which kept the Brits out of Norway and caused the Allies to pull ships away from the Atlantic giving U-boats a better run.

>>1713691
>To be honest it did exactly what it set out to do, gave the Americans something to shoot at while the other Japs ran away.

Actually it did the complete opposite of what it was sent to do. It set out with its task force to perform pretty much the kamikaze version of naval ships and attack the American fleet off Okinawa and then beach itself so it could still fire its guns and fight on.

Doesn't really sound like it accomplished any of its objectives when it and its whole task force was sunk by aitcraft without even ever getting close to the American fleet.

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>spend millions to create recon aircraft
>already obsolete by the time its completed thanks to satellites
>only war it sees is vietnam where it cant recon on people in jungle
>breaks while flying and must go trough a week of maintenance before flying again

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>>1713777
I wish this is what happened. It would be far more interesting to read about.

>>1713691
>And scared the shit out of the British. The sinking of the Hood brought England closer to the brink of surrender than the Blitz and Dunkirk.
What a retarded thing to say. But then this is /his/ so whatever.

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>>1713691
>You're also forgetting the Tirpitz which kept the Brits out of Norway

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>>1707144
>>1707160
What's the thing with swedes losing their best ships right away?

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>>1707144

One example of a hilariously bad military project was the M247 Sergeant York. Named after a famous WW1 sniper, the York utterly failed to live up to the accuracy of its namesake. Designed to counter soviet helicopters such the Mi-24, the M247 was crippled by a host of poor design choices.

The first and most important of these mistakes was to use the same radar developed for the F-16 fighter jet as the basis for the aircraft tracking system. Although the AN/APG-66 was a very capable radar, it had been design for use in aircraft, and so it was unable to filter out ground clutter or function properly while on the ground. Tests showed that the M247 would often lock on to trees or buildings, while at the same time remaining oblivious to the aerial targets it was supposed to shoot down. The York consistently failed to hit moving targets and stationary targets.

The most frightening aspect of the M247 was its alarming tendency to lock on to bystanders. On more than one occasion, the York nearly killed personnel who were observing the tests.

The fact that the M247 won the competition for a new anti-aircraft platform reeks of corruption, because literally all of its competitors worked better.

>>1714525
Also because it was built on the M60 Patton hull, it couldn't keep up with the new, faster M1 Abrams it would have been deployed to protect.

It's the classic issue of overenthusiastic predictions towards technology, conflicting procurement goals and feature creep. It's gotta be able to do XYZ but it needs to be cheap because we need to save money, so it uses off the shelf equipment that isn't suited to the job and thus doesn't deliver the expected results.

It's a little known fact that the US was set to adopt a improved version of the Euromissile Roland medium-range SAM in the 80s, however the changes made to improve it increased the cost to the point where the Reagan administration killed the project. The Germans were furious that we canceled the production contracts right as everything was set to go, and refused to allow us to sell them to another country (similar to how the US can stop jet fighters built in another country but using American made engines or radars from being sold to a country we don't like) so the National Guard ended up operating them for a few years. End result: A very capable air defense system is wasted and the US ends up without a proper replacement for Chaparral/HAWK.

>>1713608
Got it off of /k/ iirc, so yeah probably

>>1710043
>not understanding how radar stealthiing works
>bitching about "muh aesthetics"
>not understanding that form follows function.

>>1714525
>>1715091

There was also the issue that when the guns were raise to near maximum elevation, they would enter within the sight of the radar. So the gun would lock on to gun, creating a situation where the machine would actually try to commit suicide.

nice shitposts lads

>>1707892
"Make work" projects or busywork

>>1709998
They didnt really have a lot to do. Building some sweet as pyramids would pass the time at least.

Also Jews wouldnt have been as butthurt

Relevent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

>>1716521

>This bullshit

The Bradley was never anything other than an IFV

>>1707430
10/10 would oppress filthy Orange Star scum with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2A8FP0jbiA

>>1707949
That is such a cute word. Like rigmarol or shindig.

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Waste of potential sat in the mud stuck then finally scrapped never left the testing area

>>1707430
One of these things is being kept at a port in Maine, I drive by it all the time, it's probably the most out of place thing in the universe, like a cow standing in the middle of a flock of sheep, pretty disgusting desu.

>>1713897
>already obsolete by the time its completed thanks to satellites

How stupid are you?

Satellite orbits are regular and predictable. Due to that things can be kept out of sight and getting time critical recon on specific targets is impossible.

>only war it sees is vietnam where it cant recon on people in jungle

What is Cold War?

>>1715091
>Also because it was built on the M60 Patton hull

M48 you fucking nigger. It even obvious in that photo.

>>1717506
>Satellite orbits are regular and predictable. Due to that things can be kept out of sight and getting time critical recon on specific targets is impossible.
Isn't this why we're still using the Dragon Lady?
muh loiter muddafugga

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>>1712908
Don't forget that mad sensor and datalink game

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>>1716537
>The Bradley was never anything other than an IFV

MICV didn't happen at all with separate APC, IFV and recon vehicles. Pentagon Wars has it's oversimplifications, but generally the idea how military industrial complex and staff officers work is there.

>>1717516
>Isn't this why we're still using the Dragon Lady?

Yes. Also GlobalHawk and other drones.

Satellites are very expensive. They are on their orbits. It might take few days to get satellite on optimal place to photograph specific target, even with multiple satellites in constellation. Every adjustment to orbit for one reason or another uses limited fuel supply. Because orbits are predictable, things can be hidden at least partially. A brigade on move, order it to stop, drive off road and deploy camo nets at specific time. Given that everything in military has tendency of being fucked up, probably only a battalion worth of vehicles remain visible to satellite.

When it comes to Blackbirds, one of those is genuinely insane clusterfuck. YF-12. 15 to 20 million dollar interceptor, in a day when Phantom cost like 2.5 millions. Immediate air refueling SR-71 used to have on most missions, it could have been a bit too complicated for interceptor.

>>1711176
>reality is that Obama had to cut
Sequestration is among the most brain-dead moves Congress ever shat out. Iirc that was under Dubya's administration, too.

>>1713644
haha you win the internet sir

>>1717948
My bad, sequestration came along in 2011. So it was John "Boo-hoo" Boehner and Mitch McConnell's failure to reign in the so-called Freedom Caucus, not Dubya who gave us that legislative turd.

>>1707144
American battleships were pure sex.