>Becoming interested in Turkic people and Cacuases history

>>1692674
I know they have cool folk music and try to claim every famous Central Asian as Azeri.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Magomayev_(musician)

Mizra Akhundov was Azeri ethnically, he was a great writer and strong advocate of secularism and atheism. He was very critical of Iran and Azerbaijan, Islam and eastern life.

>>1692710
So basically a semi cuckold ?

It's a fake country that got it's name from the Safavids that conquered it
Up until then it was ruled by an arab dynasty of persian wannabes called the Shirvanshahs and the nation "Azerbaijan" was known as Shirvan. The population are native to the Caucaus (obviously) were a mix of people with identity crisis caused by the different ruling dynasties but still spoke caucaus native languages.

However, when the turks and different persianate dynasties moved in things changed and they would start to develope the same identity crisis the Seljuks left behind in Anatolia.
Basically the Safavids took the name of the real region called Azerbaijan (which is in todays Northern Iran) and strapped it on there to make things simpler while the population gradually became "turkified" cause of the kebabflinging contest between them and the Ottomans.

However shit is even more complicated then that as to the origin of the name "Azerbaijan" itself and the azeri language but since you are just interested in the turkic part, I'll leave it at that.

>>1693065
> describe events spanning from 9th century to currents day
> "it's a fake country with no history!"

>>1693094
I ment in name

It's basically a colonial state of armenians in denial that jumped on the turkic bandwagon after they got conquered but share no real ethnic values with actual azeris

>>1692674
Aezeri word for weapon means dick in turkish.
So azerbeijan armed forces in turkish roughly means azerbeijan dicked forces.

>>1692674
Azerbaijani are not Turkic.

>>1692674

They have fantastic racist jokes, it's kind of strange that so much of their culture is based on racism and yet they have very peaceful race relations.

>>1693262
Any examples of Azeri racist jokes

>>1692674
They are Turks (or maybe Tatars, at least until the early 20th century everyone called Azeris Tatars) who follow Shiite Islam, but are very secular, more then Turkey. Fun fact: Ataturk largely based his ideology on the defunct Azerbaijani Musavat Party.

Most Azerbaijanis don't live in Azerbaijan, but in Northern Iran. However, the people in Azerbaijan don't really care about that clay, but they are still incredibly butthurt about a couple of mountains that they lost in the '90-s to Armenia.

I am Azeri, who lives in Azerbaijan, ask your questions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre

>>1693282
Why do Azeris obsess over Karabakh, where only Armenians live nowdays, and don't focus on uniting with their compatriots in Northern Iran?

>>1693298
not him but >why were frenchies so assblasted about Alsace-Lorraine where only germans lived at all times

it's the same thing, it was rightfully their land and they got pretty much genocided by the armenians

>>1693298
Not him but you might aswell ask why azeris in northern Iran live peacefully with the nations biggest armenian community or why Khameini who himself is a azeri together with most of Iran's top military commanders don't give a fuck helping them in their war but rather keep close ties to Armenia.

Neither side cares about the others conflicts and this union meme was started during USSR times to agitate the locals and is used by Turkey today.

>>1693282
How close is the Azeri language to Armenian or Georgian? Is there still any relation like that anon from before said or has it become completely turkified?

How important is religion in Azerbaijan?

What attitude towards the Armenian genocide/massacre/whatever of 1915 do you have?

Any fun facts about your country that foreigners would not know?

>>1693282
tell me a racist joke

>>1693298
1) A lot of people had to immigrate to other cities of Azerbaijan and can't go bach home now
2) It's rightfully our land, even Armenia doesn't recognises NCR
3) Relatives of ones who died during war are still alive
4) Azeris in Iran live peacefully with persians and other minorities, very few conflicts happend during all these years
5) It's much easier to fight against Armenia than Iran, and even if we cloud fight with Iran we wouldn't do it

>>1693326
as a turk I always found azeri to be nearly exactly the same language, just pronounced and written oddly. you could compare it to german vs austrian / swiss

File: azeratheist.png (815KB, 1531x1218px) Image search: [Google]

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>>1693326
>How close is the Azeri language to Armenian or Georgian?
Not close at all, but armenians adopted a lot of turkish words during rule Ottoman Empire so sometimes you can meet an Azeri with second name "Balaev" and Armenian with second name "Balayan"
Also what this guy said is true
>>1693394
and same thing can be said about Turkmenian
>How important is religion in Azerbaijan?
In big cities people are mostly secular, but as you go further and further from big city you will meet more and more durkas.
I am an atheist and 70% of my friends are either atheists or agnostisc or deists and rest of them are secular muslims.
But sadly young generation gets more and more religoius beacuse of gulenists, nurchus and other similar movements. Our goverment fights against this tho, for example girls can't wear hijab in schools.
Also picrelated.
>>1693326
>What attitude towards the Armenian genocide/massacre/whatever of 1915 do you have?
We deny it.
>Any fun facts about your country that foreigners would not know?
Azerbaijan was the first Muslim country ever to enfranchise women.
Also this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_volcanoes_in_Azerbaijan
>Azerbaijan is in the first place in the world for the amount of mud volcanoes.

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>>1693298

>>1693456
Thanks for the reply. Here are some more questions if you don't mind:

How is the Soviet Union remembered?

Do you consider yourself European or Caucasian, Persian, oriental, etc...?
I remember watching a tourism commercial on Euronews saying something about "European this and that near the Caspian Sea". Was that just a marketing slogan or does it reflect a general sentiment in the country?

What work sectors are the most common in Azerbaijan? Oil industry, tourism?

>>1693298
Because iranian azeris dont give a fuck about azerbaijan

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>>1692674
Turks colonists

They displaced the albo niggers and took their territory.

>>1694052
>How is the Soviet Union remembered?
Depends on the person, but most of people prefer modern day Azerbaijan.
>Do you consider yourself European or Caucasian, Persian, oriental, etc...?
I remember watching a tourism commercial on Euronews saying something about "European this and that near the Caspian Sea". Was that just a marketing slogan or does it reflect a general sentiment in the country?
Turkic or caucsian.
But "the link between Europe and Asia" meme is quite common here.
>What work sectors are the most common in Azerbaijan? Oil industry, tourism?
Oil industry of course but tourism sector is also improving.

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>>1693169
This explains so much holy shit

>>1694092
not all of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRfQ52cz7TE

>>1693456
Is wearing a hijab seen as a taboo? Do you think there'll be more freedom regarding hijab in the future?

>>1692674
They have based literature.

>>1694415
>Is wearing a hijab seen as a taboo? Do you think there'll be more freedom regarding hijab in the future?
It's not a taboo but it's harder to find a job if you wear hijab and like i said before it's forbiden to wear hijab at school.
Not shure how it will be in future

>>1694453
Why would the gov bans a cloth? Any Madrassa in Azerbaijan?

>>1692674
Persian turks.
Persian outskirts until the 19th century.
After, russian outskirt.
After 1917 first secular islamic state in the history. Republic in USSR until 1991.
After 1991 "independent". Full of oil, but still poor.
Had a bloody anti-armenian genocide in 90s, and permanent war on west side.

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A bunch of wannabe mongols squatting on historic Armenian lands. Because those Tatars had no history or identity of their own, they tried to co-op the identity of actual Azeris from Iran, to the point where they renamed the area they're squatting on to Azerbaijan.

Their entire national identity is based on butthurt from being BTFO in the Artsakh war, as a result they're trying to keep land inhabited by people who hate their guts and don't want to be a part of their country.

Their "people" pretty much hate everything that isn't Turkic, they also chimp out whenever they think they can get away with it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov. Not to mention their ethnic cleansing of Armenians in Baku and Ganja.

So yeah they're just batshit insane, the lot of them.

>>1693275
Iranian Azeris are ethnically still the same, Azerbaijani Azeris are Turkified (as in their language is largely Turkic and similar to modern Turkish but Russian propaganda in the late 19th and early 20th century brainwashed them into thinking they were always Turks).

>>1694407
Yet no azeri from iran joined azerbaijan in the armenia-azerbaijan wars while armenian iranians did. The people in your video are some hools looking for trouble. Many iranian azeris visit armenia because of the more liberal laws and they dont seem to care at all

>>1694407
Iranian Azeris are not "ethnic" Tuks, what is this retarded /pol/ bullshit with that video.

>>1694479
We don't have any Madrassas yet, but one is being build in Baku.
>>1694552
>>1694581
t.butthurt armenians
>>1694582
I personally know one iranian azeri who fought in armenian-azerbaijani war during 90's.

>>1694708
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_War

Doesnt seem like it. All the volunteers were grey wolves and mercenaries

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>>1694708

>butthurt armenians

Not as butthurt as you monkeys get over Artsakh.

>>1694715
Probably there wasn't a lot of valunteers from Iran beacuse the goverment supported Armenia. But still there were some.
Also a lot of iranian Azeris visit Azerbaijan during Novruz or summer holidaysand many people here have relatives in Iran, including me.

>>1694738
Lel I didn't even write any bad things about armenians or armenia and you came here and started bitching about us.

>>1694112
There's no proof that the caucasian albania was related to the modern european albania, same as there's no proof that caucasian iberia is related to spain or portugal. Armenians and persians who ruled or neighboured it never called it Albania, it's just greek retardness in naming places.

>>1692674
In an ideal world it would join Iran while maintaining some autonomy (the khanates of the area already had it before the russians arrived) and be the main spearhead of secularism and modernity inside the country.

Not happening any time soon if ever though. Pan-turkism in Azerbaijan and political islam in Iran make it not only unlikely but also undesirable.

>>1694745
Well i have also azeri heritage but i never encountered much seperatistic tendencies there. Most of them cant even speak azeri. They share the same struggle like any other ethnicity living under the ayatollahs which also have prominent azeri figures. I even doubt that azerbaijan azeris and iranian ones have much common. I mean they were seperated for more than 200 years under completely different ideologies and governments.

>>1694745
Also the government couldnt really stop anyone from going to azerbaijan.

>>1694786
>>1694745

Gonna contribute my personal anecdotal knowledge:

I met an azeri girl from Orumieh in Barcelona and, since in Barcelona sooner or later you end up talking about separatism, we talked about this a little. From what I gathered the concern was more over azeri being marginalized by persian than an actual desire to seek independence, she mentioned separatists exist but they're not a majority.

Another azeri girl I met in Tehran couldn't even speak the language and, while she mentioned he would like to understand it, she didn't seem to actually care much.

>>1694786
Yeah, I already said that azeris live peacefully with persians and other minorities in Iran, but that doesn't mean that we don't care about each other.
>I even doubt that azerbaijan azeris and iranian ones have much common. I mean they were seperated for more than 200 years under completely different ideologies and governments.
Yup, you are most likely right about this

>>1694804
One persian on /int/ talled me that you wan't get an answer in Tabriz if you ask in persian.
Not sure if it's true because last time I've been in Tabriz I was 6

>>1694807
>>1694786

Yeah, when you look at the actual situation in Iran you find that it's really just Azeris worried that their language will die out.

You actually are seeing this happen with smaller languages like Gilaki and Mazdaki.

The issue is that Pan-Turkists (99% of them all from Turkey or Azerbaijan Republic) who exaggerate the issue to ridiculous amounts, claim that the situation of Azeris in Iran is like Kurds in Turkey, that there are "35 million Azeri Turks in Iran" that are waiting to revolt and join a "Greater Azerbaijan", and that Iran will balkanize in 20 years. You see Turks claiming that Iran could never fight against Turkey, because then the Azeris will all suddenly rise up and fight against Iran.

You see this quite often from Turk and Azerbaijani posters in /sg/ for instance, or on plebbit from Turks and Azeris.

Really though the best thing for Iran to do is just let Azerbaijani and Kurdish be taught at schools, even if they're just singular Azeri-language courses with the rest of the curriculum in Persian, that alone would shut up half of the activists.

Personally I would be in favor of minority languages being taught in public school in their region the same way Arabic is taught from 6th grade in all Iranian schools (and it's a mandatory course too), along with letting them have some universities that are primarily in their own language. There doesn't need to be extremes, just give these concessions and make it the red line, it ends the problem right there and removes any shred of legitimacy from foreign Pan-Turkists.

>>1693104
>colonial state of persians in denial
Fixed.

>>1694708
I'm not an Armenian you cuck.

>>1694866
Wouldnt they gradually demand more and more?

>>1697015
Unlikely.

>>1697180
How are you so sure?

>>1693282
Why did they call Azeris Tatars? Is there an actual connection to the Crimean or Central-Asian Tatars, or was it just a misunderstanding by outsiders?

>>1694866
>Azeris worried that their language will die out.
The irony is that it pretty much already has.

The original azeri language was an indo-iranian language related to pahlavi persian.
It died out around the time of the Qajar dynasty but what killed it was the mass migration of turkish expats during the Safavid era from Ottoman lands.

>>1697492
Are there any traces of the language left?

>>1697492
So azeris are basically caucasians that got turked hard and now they're mullato turks?

>>1697614
in tabriz-persian probably

modern azeri has alot of persian loan words so there could be that also

>>1697710
Its just caucasians LARPing as steppe warlords. Pretty pathetic desu

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>>1697710
Again, if we want to understand who a true Azeri is and untie some of the turkish confusion we have to go back to the origin of the name which is a long history lesson:

First of the name "Azerbaijan" is a turkic/arabic corruption of Atropatene, which was at first a vassal state to the Seleucids back when Alexander conquered Persia but when he died it became a independent kingdom. The name Atropatene ment and still does in its new form "The Land of Fire", which is evident cause Persians had a thing for fire back then.
Before that it was a Satrapy to the Achaemenids and part of the former Medes region (hence the name Media Atropatene was given to it by the greeks).

Now fast forward a few centuries after the Parthians, after the Sassanids, after the Arabs and the Turks would turn Iran into a metropolitan expressway on how to create your own Persianate state and you still got this region but it's called Azebaijan.
From that region a guy was born that was called Ismail and whom would establish the Safavid dynasty. Now him and his heirs would go out of their way to conquer a bunch of shit.
One place in particular is Shirvan, which is pretty much the region of the modern Republic of Azerbaijan.
Now Shirvan, which was the former artist known as Caucaus Albania and Arran was a nation of your average different ethnic groups from the Caucaus region with other colonizers through the Iranian expressway and ruled by a arab/persian dynasty.
When one of the Safavid kings conquered the place he thought it would be a great idea to call it Azerbaijan, cause of it's close proximity with to Northern Iran and the fact that everyone would speak more or less turkish that didn't already thanks to their wars with the Ottomans.

And in conclussion you could say that they are basically caucasians that got azeri'd hard.
But again, if you look into the history they and azeri's are basically iranians/caucasians that all got turk'd hard and are causing a enigma of confusion today.

>>1697710
But before they got, t*rked, they got armo'd. Their original Caucasian language was most likely an Eastern-Caucasian language, they even had an own writing system that looked pretty cool, but Armenian slowly displaced it, sadly. Btw for some strange reason the region was known as Caucasian Albania in the ancient times.

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>>1697614

The Talysh probably are the only Iranic-speaking descendants left in that region.

>>1697710
No, they're not even mulattos, they have as much Turk admixture as the Spanish have Moor admixture.

It's basically the result of Turkic-speaking rulers (though not necessarily Turkic in race) ruling Iran for approx. 800 or so years, since their power base was primarily in northeastern Iran and Shirvan (the region in modern-day Azerbaijan), the result was the cultural "Turkification" of the local Iranian and Armenian population, as the rulers imposed their culture and language on to the locals. The same way a sizeable numbers of Turkish "Turks" are literally Greeks/Slavs/Circassians (these are the white-looking "Turks") that converted to Islam and adopted the Turkish language.

>>1697858
Depends, are you talking about Iranian Azerbaijan or Caucasian Azerbaijan?

I know a particular man by the name of Ahmad Kasravi managed to compile lots of historical sources to prove Iranian Azeris used to speak a Northwestern Iranian language.

Caucasian Azerbaijanis are probably just Armenians who got culturally Turkified, though.

Pic related shows Caucasus Azeris to be literally the same as their neighbors.

>>1697406
>Azeris are the most dominant and significant Iranian people in Iran after Persians.
>Azeris have massive standing in the civil and military branches of the government.
>Current supreme leader is an Azeri.
>Most Azeris do not support separatism or a new Azeri nation away from Iran.
>Even most Azeris in Tabriz and northern Iran and Iranian Azerbaijan want little to do with Azerbaijan.
I feel pretty confident, admittingly I'm half-Persian and my family in Iran are all Persian (with a bit of Mandazarani) but none of the Azeris I know care about anything but preserving their language.

>>1697710
Not Iranian Azeris, Azerbaijani Azeris but sort of yes.

>>1697994
Turks never ruled Iran for 800 years.

>>1697798
I heard zoroaster might had originate from there is this true?

>>1699973
nah, he was from eastern Iran/transoxiana since he spoke Avesta, which was a language native to eastern Iran

or Russia, if you believe Putin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2j5KdNXaOs

>>1700012
Wew

>>1699973
>>1700012
The area around which Zoroaster/Zaruthusthra originated from is most likely between northeastern Iran, somewhere in Tajikistan, or central or northern Afghanistan.

>>1700704
sogdiana, bactria, oxus

>>1693244
it is Turkic..

>>1701614
*turkified

>>1701620
same thing

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>>1693289

>>1692674
As a native North Caucasian I don't like Azerbaijan desu. It is a state which should not exist.
Northern Azeris are Natives, which are partly turkified. The Southern Part are Armenians and Iranians who speak a turkish language. There is not really a ethnicity Azeri.
It is similar to Turkey. Just turkified people, not really Turkic tho.

>>1701614
Azerbaijani Azeris are Turkified, not Iranian Azeris who still retain their original culture and customs/traditions. Another thing pointed out correctly is Shirvan ! = is not the real Azerbaijan, Iranian Azerbaijan is. Like how explained here: >>1697798

>>1698834
>turkic = turkish
>seljuks
>later mongol generations
>tamerlane
>turkic safavid dynasty
kinda adds up m8

>>1701915
Circassian?

>>1703401
>Seljuk Empire
Barely a century.
>Mongols
Not Turkic. Also under the unified Mongols, about from 1259 to 1294, under the Ilkhanate less then 80 years.
>Tamerlane
Tamerlane's Empire was extremely shortlived: by 1500-1501, they had already lost most of Iran to Ishamil the Great. So barely a century there as well.
>Safavids
>Turkic
Don't be fucking retarded, the Safavoids were a Persian-Azeri-Kurdish dynasty, entirely Iranic and Persianized.

File: Shirvanshah Sarayi, Royal Tomb (1436 AD) and Palace Mosque (1441 AD).jpg (120KB, 965x700px) Image search: [Google]

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Azerbaijan is northwestern Iran. They speak a Turkic language but other than that differ in no way from Persians. In fact, they practically created the modern Iranian nation. Ethno-linguitsic nationalism, which seeks to separate people based on language alone, was alien to the Muslim world until the 20th century. Trying to apply European concepts of ethnic nationalism onto Middle Eastern peoples is what's created so much confusion here, with this retarded 'Turks vs Iranians' idea; in reality, throughout Iran and Central Asia the main distinction was historically between nomads and farmers/urbanites, regardless of language. For example, what we today call Uzbeks were historically called Tajiks despite speaking Uzbek Turkic because they farmed and lived in cities. Only the nomadic ruling class were called Uzbeks.

What we call Azerbaijan today is Shirvan, a separate region that ended up speaking the same language and being renamed by the Russians.

File: Shirvanshah Sarayi, Divankhana.jpg (3MB, 3648x2736px) Image search: [Google]

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>>1703519
Some Shirvani architecture.

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>>1703526

File: Mardakan Round Castle (1232 AD).jpg (130KB, 922x1229px) Image search: [Google]

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>>1703529
There are a lot of these small castles.

>>1703519
Shirvan was literally an Azerbijani-Araboo nation. Iranian Azerbaijan = real Azerbaijan.

>>1703401
Safavids weren't Turkic, you silly guy. The Safavoids were like >>1703505 said, a Persian dynasty which has its actually genelogy and lineage known to us from Ishamil, his father, and grandfather from Kurds and Azeris and potentially a small admixture of Pontic Greeks. They were never Turkic or Turkish.

Even the rulers of the Ottoman Empire at the time acknowledged the ethnic nature of the Safavids being Iranian while addressing Ishmail and his successors as heirs of Kai Khosrow. Safavids are to modern Persians in the same way the Samanids were to the ancient Persians like the Sassanids.

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>>1703542

>>1703526
That looks quite cool

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>>1693456
>Azerbaijan is in the first place in the world for the amount of mud volcanoes.

>>1703401
you forgot to mention
>Khwarazmian empire
>Qara Qoyunlu dynasty
>Ağ Qoyunlu dynasty
>Afsharid Dynasty
>Qajar Dynasty
>>1703545
>They were never Turkic or Turkish.
Ismail's grandfather was Uzun Hassan and he wrote most of his poetry in turkic.

>>1704856
The Safavids were not Turkic you fucking retard. They hailed from Ardabil, a region famous for Georgians, Circassians, Persians, Greeks, Kurds, and Azeris, Richard Fry's information is outdated and completely invalidated by the Safavid's recorded genealogical tree, stemming from a Kurdish Sufist. Stop with your Turanist bullshit.

Also

>Khwarazmian dynasty
48 years.
>Qara Qoyunlu dynasty
Less then a century and on top of that only controlled a nominal area in the lower Caucasus and a small part of Iran, try again.
>Ağ Qoyunlu dynasty
A confederation of the above meme Turkic dynasty. And most of their history they were vassals, not rulers of only a part of Iran. Try again.
>Afsharid dynasty
Nader Shah and that's it, barely sixty years and really not relevant after Nader died.
>Qajars
132 years.

Where is this 800 years meme you keep making up? The Safavids weren't Turks ever and the Khwarazmians were garbage and the Mongols are not Turks. And I want to see proof of Hassan being a Turk.

>>1704961
>The Safavids were not Turkic you fucking retard. They hailed from Ardabil, a region famous for Georgians, Circassians, Persians, Greeks, Kurds, and Azeris, Richard Fry's information is outdated and completely invalidated by the Safavid's recorded genealogical tree, stemming from a Kurdish Sufist. Stop with your Turanist bullshit.
Are you fucking blind? I didn't write that Ismail was Turkic, i said he was related to Turkics throught his grandfather.
> And I want to see proof of Hassan being a Turk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag_Qoyunlu
>The Ağ Qoyunlu or Ak Koyunlu, also called the White Sheep Turkomans (Persian: آق قویونلو Āq Quyūnlū), was a Sunni[1] Oghuz Turkic tribal federation
>Where is this 800 years meme you keep making up?
He probably meant that for 800 years Iran was cucked by diffrent Turkic dynasties and thats truth

>>1703505 and >>1703545 I guess
Iran was literally the whore of the middle east, being passed around from ruler to ruler. I could list all the fucking different rulers and you could tell me how "iranic and persianized" they were, but the fact that they were so asshurt and desperate that they turned to Shia Islam out of their special snowflake complex kinda tells enough. Regardless, the unified Greater Seljuk Empire didnt last long, correct, but its successor states did, and even long before them large parts of Iran were being conquered and fought over by central asian steppes. You have to be really delusional to think there were any significant periods in which they were ruled by actual Iranians.

Besides that, the Safavids are direct descendants of the turkish Ak Koyunlu horde, which also ruled over Persia, just like their predecessors, the Kara Koyunlu horde, so your "entirely Iranic and Persianized" meme is just wrong

>>1705120
>>1705344
Nice (You) but the Safavids were never Turkics, Hassyan is not an attested historical figure and the Safavid family tree is well known.

>direct descendants of the Ak Konyulu
No they weren't.
>Iran was cucked for 800 years by Turkic dynasties
No they weren't, you retarded Turanist. Stop lying, everyone already knows you Turkshits have nothing, your revisionism doesn't work.

>>1704856
>Being Turkic is defined purely on your language

I guess the Mughals must have been Persian then, given that they spoke Persian and it was the official language of their empire.

>Ismail's grandfather was Uzun Hassan and he wrote most of his poetry in turkic

His grandmother was also a Pontic Greek, and he had significant Kurdish ancestry as well.

Not to mention that he also wrote quite a few poems in Persian, and named all three of his sons after Shahnameh characters.

>>1705120
> 800 years Iran was cucked by diffrent Turkic dynasties

Didn't you claim that Ismail wasn't Turkic? How would his dynasty be Turkic then?

If you're going by lineage, couldn't you also claim that the Ottomans were a Greek and Balkan Slav empire, given that only 3 out of the 26 or so Turkish sultans had Turkish mothers?

>>1705344
>they were so asshurt and desperate that they turned to Shia Islam

No worse than the Turks turning to Islam instead of their native Tengriism.

>special snowflake complex

Pretty sure roleplaying as an Asiatic Mongol is far worse than any "special snowflake complex".

>Besides that, the Safavids are direct descendants of the turkish Ak Koyunlu horde, which also ruled over Persia, just like their predecessors, the Kara Koyunlu horde, so your "entirely Iranic and Persianized" meme is just wrong

That doesn't make them a Turkic dynasty though, Ismail was a direct descendant of the last king of Trebizond, as well as the king of Georgia. I don't see anyone claiming the Safavids as a Greek, Kurdish, or Georgian dynasty.

>so your "entirely Iranic and Persianized" meme is just wrong

You seem to define being Turkic on some pretty vague terms. Does simply speaking a Turkic language make the empire a "Turkic dynasty"? Does simply having a few Turkic ancestors suddenly make a person and his empire completely Turkic?

It seems your definition of "Turkic" switches between ancestry and language in every one of your posts. So which one is it?

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>>1706055
Alright fine, I'll waste my time listing this shit for you butthurt Iranians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaznavids
>The Ghaznavid dynasty (Persian: غزنویان ġaznaviyān) was a Persianate[10] Muslim dynasty of Turkic mamluk origin.
>977-1186

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Empire
>The Seljuk Empire or Great Seljuk Empire (also spelled Seljuq) was a medieval Turko-Persian[15] Sunni Muslim empire, originating from the Qynyq branch of Oghuz Turks.
>1037–1194

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazmian_dynasty
>The Khwarazmian dynasty (IPA: [kwəˈræzmiːən];[7] also known as the Khwarezmid dynasty, dynasty of Khwarazm Shahs, and other spelling variants; from (Persian: خوارزمشاهیان, translit. Khwārazmshāhiyān "Kings of Khwarezmia") was a Persianate[8][9][10] Sunni Muslim dynasty of Turkic mamluk origin.
>1077–1231

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_Empire
>The Timurid Empire (Persian: تیموریان), self-designated as Gurkani (Persian: گورکانیان, Gūrkāniyān), was a Persianate[4][5] Turco-Mongol empire comprising modern-day Iran, the Caucasus, Mesopotamia, Afghanistan, much of Central Asia, as well as parts of contemporary Pakistan, Syria, and Turkey.
>1370-1507

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Koyunlu
>The Kara Koyunlu or Qara Qoyunlu, also called the Black Sheep Turkomans (Persian: قرا قویونلو), were a Shi'a[2] Oghuz Turkic tribal federation[...]
>1375–1468

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag_Qoyunlu
>The Ağ Qoyunlu or Ak Koyunlu, also called the White Sheep Turkomans (Persian: آق قویونلو Āq Quyūnlū), was a Sunni[1] Oghuz Turkic tribal federation that ruled present-day Azerbaijan, Armenia, Eastern Turkey, part of Iran, and northern Iraq from 1378 to 1501.[2]

pic related should show you regarding the safavid stuff

>>1706133
">Being Turkic is defined purely on your language

I guess the Mughals must have been Persian then, given that they spoke Persian and it was the official language of their empire. "
>If I ignore half your argument and pretend to be retarded maybe you will agree with me

"Didn't you claim that Ismail wasn't Turkic? How would his dynasty be Turkic then?" he didn't

"No worse than the Turks turning to Islam instead of their native Tengriism."
Yes, because turning to the major religion of the time makes you such a special little snowflake

"Pretty sure roleplaying as an Asiatic Mongol is far worse than any "special snowflake complex"."
Except they were an asiatic horde long before they knew of mongols and abandoned the tribal life

"You seem to define being Turkic on some pretty vague terms. Does simply speaking a Turkic language make the empire a "Turkic dynasty"? Does simply having a few Turkic ancestors suddenly make a person and his empire completely Turkic?

It seems your definition of "Turkic" switches between ancestry and language in every one of your posts. So which one is it?"


The Turkic peoples are a collection of ethnic groups that live in central, eastern, northern, and western Asia as well as parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.[24] They share, to varying degrees, certain cultural traits and historical backgrounds. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of peoples including existing societies such as Altai, Azerbaijanis, Balkars, Bashkirs, Chuvashes, Crimean Karaites, Gagauz, Karachays, Karakalpaks, Kazakhs, Khakas, Krymchaks, Kyrgyz people, Nogais, Qashqai, Tatars, Turkmens, Turks, Tuvans, Uyghurs, Uzbeks, and Yakuts and as well as ancient and medieval states such as Dingling, Bulgars, Chuban, Göktürks, Khazars, Khiljis, Kipchaks, Kumans, Ottoman Turks, Seljuk Turks, Tiele, Timurids, Turgeshes, Yenisei Kirghiz, and possibly Huns, Tuoba, Wusun, and the Xiongnu

>>1706157

Since you're listing Wikipedia, here's something from the wikipedia page on the Safavids:

>The Safavid Kings themselves claimed to be Seyyeds,[32] family descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, although many scholars have cast doubt on this claim.[33] There seems now to be a consensus among scholars that the Safavid family hailed from Persian Kurdistan,[23] and later moved to Azerbaijan, finally settling in the 11th century CE at Ardabil. Traditional pre-1501 Safavid manuscripts trace the lineage of the Safavids to the Kurdish dignitary, Firuz Shah Zarin-Kulah.[24][34]

According to some historians,[35][36] including Richard Frye, the Safavids were of Turkicized Iranian origin:[25]

The Turkish speakers of Azerbaijan are mainly descended from the earlier Iranian speakers, several pockets of whom still exist in the region. A massive migration of Oghuz Turks in the 11th and 12th centuries not only Turkified Azerbaijan but also Anatolia. The Azeri Turks are Shiʿites and were founders of the Safavid dynasty.

Other historians, such as Vladimir Minorsky[37] and Roger Savory, support this idea:[38]

From the evidence available at the present time, it is certain that the Safavid family was of indigenous Iranian stock, and not of Turkish ancestry as it is sometimes claimed. It is probable that the family originated in Persian Kurdistan, and later moved to Azerbaijan, where they adopted the Azari form of Turkish spoken there, and eventually settled in the small town of Ardabil sometimes during the eleventh century.

(1/2)

>>1706172

>By the time of the establishment of the Safavid empire, the members of the family were native Turkish-speaking and Turkicized,[11][39] and some of the Shahs composed poems in their native Turkish language. Concurrently, the Shahs themselves also supported Persian literature, poetry and art projects including the grand Shahnameh of Shah Tahmasp,[40][41] while members of the family and some Shahs composed Persian poetry as well.[42][43] The authority of the Safavids was religiously based, and their claim to legitimacy was founded on being direct male descendants of the Ali,[44] the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, and regarded by Shi'ites as the first Imam.

>Furthermore, the dynasty was from the very start thoroughly intermarried with both Pontic Greek as well as Georgian lines.[45] In addition, from the official establishment of the dynasty in 1501, the dynasty would continue to have many intermarriages with both Circassian as well as again Georgian dignitaries, especially with the advent of king Tahmasp I.[27][28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty#Genealogy.E2.80.94ancestors_of_the_Safavids_and_its_multi-cultural_identity

(2/2)

>>1706172
>>1706176
I'm assuming you're the other guy, but >>1703505 claimed "The Safavoids were a Persian-Azeri-Kurdish dynasty, entirely Iranic and Persianized.", so you are kinda proving my point. Besides that "A massive migration of Oghuz Turks in the 11th and 12th centuries not only Turkified Azerbaijan but also Anatolia. The Azeri Turks are Shiʿites and were founders of the Safavid dynasty." also backs my point

>>1706171

>If I ignore half your argument and pretend to be retarded maybe you will agree with me

What argument? You claimed that primarily speaking a Turkic language (in this case, Azeris) is sufficient to make someone Turkic. The Mughals primarily spoke Persian, and the people who are likely descended from its founders (Hazaras, who are essentially racially the same as Uzbeks, but they live in Afghanistan) also only speak Persian. Any argument you use to claim that the Safavids and Azeris are Turkic can easily be turned around to claim that the Mughals and Hazaras are Persians. And both arguments are equally retarded.

>Except they were an asiatic horde long before they knew of mongols and abandoned the tribal life

Correct, which is why it's retarded to claim that people who have next to no Asiatic Turkic blood (Anatolian Turks, Azeris) are in the same category as the actual proto-Turkics.

It's like claiming that Iranians are the same as Slavs or Anglos, because they share the same vague origins.

>They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family

So it is purely based on language then, and not on ancestry and race. I think that's a dumb way to define a group consisting of people with vastly different ancestries, but that's your own thing I guess.

Regardless, there is quite ample evidence to show, in the case of the Azeris, that they did in fact speak a Northwestern Iranian language prior to the influx of the Turkic language brought in during the Seljuks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Azerbaijanis

>>1706194

I'm not >>1703505 , my other post is here >>1706133

I was responding to the butthurt Turk, who was claiming everything under the sun as Turkic. I think the argument is really over whether ethnicity is defined by language or by ancestry, which is why I brought up the Mughals and Hazaras as arguments.

>>1706157
>Wikipedia articles based off Richard Fry's misinformation and outdated data
Try again, Memet.
>Seljuk Empire
Fragmented, only lasted a century.
>Khwarmazians
48 years into their reign, they were fragmented and destroyed in a short war with the Mongol Empire. Using the wikipedia article again to inflate the length of their dynasty's duration and reign with the life of the last Khwarmazian ruler who did not control any part of his original father's lands and ran to India where he died doesn't work.
>Timurid Empire
Overthrown in 1501 by Shah Ismail I, a man of Persian, Kurdish, Azeri, and Pontic Greek origins who even had blood relations to the Greek Emperors of the Byzantine Empire's Trezbond successor state. Try again.
>Kara Koyunlu
Already rebutted earlier, learn to read, roach.
>Ag Qoyunlu
Learn to read again, roach, rebutted earlier as well. Also:
Zero attested, ATTESTED MEANING PROVEN information linking the Safavids with Turkic or Turkish cultures, language, or ethnicities. Chief language? Persian. Identity? Persian. Family origins? Persian Kurdistan from Ardabil, which was in the Iranian heartlands near Iranian Azerbaijan.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

>>1694112

No Albanians original clay was in Scotland you daft cunt.

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>>1706211
>>1706207
One could always go back to the fact from Suliem I's times, the Ottomans always distinctly referred to the Safavids as Persians and never Turks in their diplomatic or military interactions. But oh well, Turanists are gonna shitpost no matter what.

>mfw last week there was a Turk poster claiming Scythians, Parthians, and Sarmatians were proto-Turkic speaking peoples.

>>1706211
THERE HE IS
>Zero attested, ATTESTED MEANING PROVEN information linking the Safavids with Turkic or Turkish cultures, language, or ethnicities.
How about you write a sentence in Azeri and I write its translation in Turkish and we both astonishly look at how it's exactly the same one.

> Chief language? Persian. Identity? Persian. Family origins? Persian Kurdistan from Ardabil, which was in the Iranian heartlands near Iranian Azerbaijan.

Honestly, even if we follow your claims, after 500 years of getting the turkish dick, can you still calim their identity and family origins were -truly- persian ?

Besides that

>Timurid Empire
>Overthrown in 1501 by Shah Ismail I, a man of Persian, Kurdish, Azeri, and Pontic Greek origins who even had blood relations to the Greek Emperors of the Byzantine Empire's Trezbond successor state. Try again.

No, Kara Koyunlu conquered it from the Timurids, Ak Koyunlu conquered it from the Kara Koyunlu and the Safavids overthrew Ak Koyunlu. Stop getting your information from EU4

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>>1706237
>keeps moving the goal posts now and repeating the same nonsense ad naseum

>>1706237
>500 years of turkish dick
Turks never had a substantial impact on Iran's population. Ever, Turanist kun.

>>1706254
>>1706223
>>1706211
>>1706197
>>1706133
>>1706261
Fine then, here you go

>Azerbaijanis (/ˌæzərbaJˈdʒɑːniz/) or Azeris (Azerbaijani: Azərilər آذریلر, Azərbaycanlılar آذربایجانلیلار), also known as Azerbaijani Turks[45][46][47] (Azerbaijani: Azərbaycan Türkləri آذربایجان تورکلری), are a Turkic[48][49][50] ethnic group living mainly in Iranian Azerbaijan and the independent Republic of Azerbaijan. They are the second most numerous ethnic group among the Turkic peoples after Anatolian Turks. They are predominantly Shi'i Muslims,[51] and have a mixed cultural heritage, including Iranian,[52] Turkic[53] and Caucasian elements. They comprise the largest ethnic group in Republic of Azerbaijan and by far the second-largest ethnic group in neighbouring Iran.[54] The world's largest number of ethnic Azerbaijanis live in Iran, followed by Azerbaijan.[55]

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>>1706237

Not the other guy, but I'll respond anyways

>How about you write a sentence in Azeri and I write its translation in Turkish and we both astonishly look at how it's exactly the same one.

Again, i'll use the Persian-Hazara example. A Persian from Iran and a Hazara from Afghanistan can communicate to each other easily. Does that mean Hazaras are ethnic Persians?

>after 500 years of getting the turkish dick, can you still calim their identity and family origins were -truly- persian ?

Ironic that you're using the ancestry argument, given that Turks barely have any Turkic ancestry.

I've literally never seen an Azeri with slanted eyes or Turkic features, and for Turks from Turkey, maybe 1 in 10 actually look vaguely Turkic.

You go to Iran and put an Azeri, Kurd, and Persian together and you can't tell which is which until they open their mouths.

The same goes for most Turks and Kurds in Turkey too, barring the Greek/Slav rapebabies along the western coast.

Anyways this entire thread is pointless, nobody is answering anybody else's arguments and it's descended into absolute shitflinging and memes from both sides.

Also if you don't know what a Hazara is, pic related is one.

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>>1706266
>Iranian Azeris
>Turkic
That's why haplogroup testing, genetic markers, and anthropology links them closer with other Iranian peoples, and those of the Caucasus then Anatolian Turks right?

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>>1706280
>turkic
>genetic identity

>>1706266
>>1706237
>Turk talking about others ethnicity or lineage
Modern *Turks* of Anatolia/Turkey/Asia Minor is hilarious given your kind is so racially mongrelized between mixing and being physically assimilated by Iranians, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, and others in the Near East that you no longer resemble actual Turkic peoples.

You want a proper example? Look at those tiny isolated clans and villages of ethnic Turkomens in Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc...They still have slant eyes, the epicanthic folds, and what not. Do modern Turks or Azerbaijani *Azeris* have this? No.

You aren't in a position to talk about others.

>>1706302
Exactly, modern Turks have no real identity outside of their language. Trying to ingratiate or link themselves with other Turkic tribes or peoples is always hilarious to me.

>>1706278
>Again, i'll use the Persian-Hazara example. A Persian from Iran and a Hazara from Afghanistan can communicate to each other easily. Does that mean Hazaras are ethnic Persians?
They might as well be, even if they got cucked hard by Mongols.

>You go to Iran and put an Azeri, Kurd, and Persian together and you can't tell which is which until they open their mouths.
This is wrong

>The same goes for most Turks and Kurds in Turkey too
This is wrong too

>Anyways this entire thread is pointless, nobody is answering anybody else's arguments and it's descended into absolute shitflinging and memes from both sides.
This is true, but I am enjoying this shitflinging, especially with all this middle eastern temper in the thread

>>1706223
Ottoman vs Safavid rivality was more about "sunni vs shia" than "turks vs persians"
>>1706211
>Overthrown in 1501 by Shah Ismail I, a man of Persian, Kurdish, Azeri, and Pontic Greek origins who even had blood relations to the Greek Emperors of the Byzantine Empire's Trezbond successor state. Try again.
Holly fuck this board is really full of uneducated retards

>>1697798
Thread really should have ended with this post.

>>1706310
>Exactly, modern Turks have no real identity outside of their language. Trying to ingratiate or link themselves with other Turkic tribes or peoples is always hilarious to me.

>Modern *Turks* of Anatolia/Turkey/Asia Minor is hilarious given your kind is so racially mongrelized between mixing and being physically assimilated by Iranians, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, and others in the Near East that you no longer resemble actual Turkic peoples.

Actually genetically Anatolians are pretty much exactly the same they were 2000 years ago, other than the western coast. The same can't be said about the Iranians who got raped by Greeks, Arabs, Turks, Mongols and other turkic tribes

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>>1706320

>They might as well be, even if they got cucked hard by Mongols.

Not as cucked as you guys, who actually started speaking the language of the invading Turkics.

>This is wrong

On what basis do you say that?

Look at the average crowd in Tabriz, in Urumiyeh, in Mashhad, in Isfahan, they pretty much look the same.

Pic related is a crowd of Azeri protestors, those people look pretty Iranian to me.

>This is true, but I am enjoying this shitflinging, especially with all this middle eastern temper in the thread

You're doing quite a bit of this yourself, Mehmet-kun.

>>1706325

>Ottoman vs Safavid rivality was more about "sunni vs shia" than "turks vs persians"

Correct.

>Holly fuck this board is really full of uneducated retards

That guy probably plays too much EU4.

That being said, the fact about Ismail's ancestry is true.

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>>1706325
Holy shit you are retarded.
>>1706343
Keep bullshitting dudester.
>Greeks
Never a significant impact if at any on native ethnic Iranian populations.
>Arabs
Never a significant impact if at any on native ethnic Iranian populations.
>Turks
Never a significant impact if at any on native ethnic Iranian populations.
>Mongols
Killed a lot of people, but that wasn't limited to Iranians alone.
>other Turkic Tribes
Nope. Also I'm pretty confident your samefagging hard at this point and are the earlier roach who was claiming in the other thread that Mongols are Turks. Kill yourself, senpai.

>>1706325
Ottoman-Safavid wars were about control over Mesopotamia, the Caucasus, and Anatolia then religious pretexts with the Sunni-Shia split. Either way, the Safavids were not nor were ever a Turkic people, dynasty, or lineage. They did not identify at that, they were not seen as that, and no one nor themselves traced their ancestry to Turkics.

Its the same shit with Babar and the Mughals completely disconnecting themselves from the Mongols who they had a VERY distant and indirect relation to via his grandfather, Tamerlane.

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>>1706343

>The same can't be said about the Iranians who got raped by Greeks, Arabs, Turks, Mongols and other turkic tribes

You realize Anatolians also got invaded and raped by Greeks, Arabs, Turks, Mongols, etc.?

In fact, you look at the genetic distance between Turks, Armenians, Iranians it's pretty much the same.

Being invaded doesn't automatically change your genes, Spain was ruled by Moors for 800 years and yet the Spanish have only a few% of Arab/Moor DNA.

I think you've just been shitposting this entire thread desu

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>>1706359
>That guy probably plays too much EU4.
I have never played any EU game in my life, you silly fucker.

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>>1706320
>cucked hard by Mongols
The irony is that the Mongolians actually undid some of the cucking.

They actually allowed the reprinting of old Persian stories/myths that were previously banned and allowed persian to be the official written language instead of arabic.

>>1706361
You could reply to both and I could prove it with a screenshot, faggot.

Anyway, pic related

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>>1706386
>>1706361
forgot pic

>>1694738
>azeri deaths
No, Safar. Chimp out wave attack is not a good tactic.

>>1706381
Persian was instituted as a court language by various non-Iranian dynasties for centuries before the Mongols ever showed up. The Abbassid Caliphate basically was already falling to the Iranian intermezzo period, a period of 250+ to 300+ years of Iranian cultural, lingustic, and societal revival and renissance following the rise of the Abbassids. Even many Turkic states, kingdoms, and what not used Persian as court and administrative languages of their fiefdoms.

>>1706390
This only identifies as the basis of language but then you'd spend a minute in photoshop or Opera/Firefox/using the html editor to edit out the (Yous). Iranian Azeris do not identify as Turkish.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_origin_of_the_Azerbaijanis#Genetic_testing
>The latest comparative study (2013) on the complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians has indicated that Iranian Azeris are more related to the people of Georgia, than they are to other Iranians, as well as to Armenians. However the same multidimensional scaling plot shows that Azeris from the Caucasus, despite their supposed common origin with Iranian Azeris, cluster closer with other Iranians (e.g. Persians, etc.) than they do with Iranian Azeris.
wait, what?

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>>1706390
>Iranian Azeris
>Turkic
Nice try, Memet.

>>1706377
Mediterraneans in general cluster closely in Western Eurasia with Southern Europeans and Caucasus people. Then again you have proto and early Eugenicists calling them "Alpines".

>>1706398
again, I said written language

since scholars/historians would still write in arabic up until then

>>1706404
We've had this before
>Azerbaijanis (/ˌæzərbaJˈdʒɑːniz/) or Azeris (Azerbaijani: Azərilər آذریلر, Azərbaycanlılar آذربایجانلیلار), also known as Azerbaijani Turks[45][46][47] (Azerbaijani: Azərbaycan Türkləri آذربایجان تورکلری), are a Turkic[48][49][50] ethnic group living mainly in Iranian Azerbaijan and the independent Republic of Azerbaijan. They are the second most numerous ethnic group among the Turkic peoples after Anatolian Turks. They are predominantly Shi'i Muslims,[51] and have a mixed cultural heritage, including Iranian,[52] Turkic[53] and Caucasian elements. They comprise the largest ethnic group in Republic of Azerbaijan and by far the second-largest ethnic group in neighbouring Iran.[54] The world's largest number of ethnic Azerbaijanis live in Iran, followed by Azerbaijan.

whoa :ooo

>>1706361
>Holy shit you are retarded.
"hurr-durr i'll just call him retarded and pretend that i didn't fucked up :DDD"
>>1706372
Either way, the Safavids were not nor were ever a Turkic people, dynasty, or lineage. They did not identify at that, they were not seen as that, and no one nor themselves traced their ancestry to Turkics.
Can you fucking read?
>>1703545 said that Sefevids were not related to Turkics and i just proved that he was wrong,
Ismail had Turkic grandfather, wrote most of his poems in turkic language and the very same language was used as the language of court, military, administration and etc.

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>>1706320

>Turks and Kurds don't look alike

Even MHP Grey Wolves can't tell the difference desu.

Note that these are the same "people" who unironically believe in Turanism.

>>1706390
This only presumes race by spoken language. Azeri was Turkified in the 16th/17th century after that area continued to fall under more and more continual Turkic presence and colonization, one of the few actual proven historical revelations of Turkic peoples assimilating others then vice versa. That's why the Azeri language went from an Iranian one to a Turkic one closely related to modern Turkish spoken in Turkey.

But that doesn't really effect racial admixture, so to say. Does a white American or white British/Englishman belong to the same race as a black American or Black British citizen? No. There are many Azeris and Kurds in Iran who only partially speak Kurdish or Azeri and are more fluent with Persian.

Same thing with the US being an overwhelmingly English speaking and English descendant nation despite almost a third of the country's demographics being non-white and non-Caucasian. Outside of language, there's next to nothing linking Azeris with Turks.

>>1706422

>Speaking Turkish makes you Turkic

I guess a black African who moves to Turkey and learns Turkish is suddenly considered a Turk too.

Literally a Sweden-tier identity you have there.

>>1706418
>>1706428
(You) didn't proven anything except repeatedly without fail and ad naseum spam the same shit over and over. No one is buying it. There is no Turkic admixture or influence from Safavid family tree, and modern Azeris are not related to Turks outside of language and even Iranian Azeris are closer to Iranians then actual ethnic Turks, Memet.

>>1706418
Persian was being used as a written language since the 8th century over Arabic in Iranian lands.

>>1706422
>wikipedia article
>Azeris
>"Turkic"
lol

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>azeri's are not iranian
well fug

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>>1706445
Babak and Piruz are GOAT.

>>1706439
>ethnicity is only about language
come on m8, at least pretend you understood the sentence

>>1706452
Pretend you aren't retarded. Azeris are not physically related to Turks. Nor culturally, why do you think Iranian festivals and traditions are still the most important holidays in Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijan to this day>

>>1706452

That's your entire argument though.

Literally everyone here has been posting proof that Azeris are, on an ancestral and racial basis, no different than other Iranians.

Your only response is to post the wikipedia article stating that Azeris are turkic, without realizing that the Turkic "ethnicity" is literally only defined as language.

I will, again, use the Hazara argument as an example. They are Turkic, slant eyed, pretty much racially and ancestrally the same as Uzbeks.

But they speak Persian, and only Persian. What ethnicity would they be?

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>>1706310
>Exactly, modern Turks have no real identity outside of their language. Trying to ingratiate or link themselves with other Turkic tribes or peoples is always hilarious to me.
One fun thing is that during the Ottoman era, "turk" was synonymous with "farmer".

>>1706377
>You realize Anatolians also got invaded and raped by Greeks, Arabs, Turks, Mongols, etc.?
>You realize Anatolians also got invaded and raped by Greeks
>Anatolians
>invaded
>by Greeks

Western Anatolia WAS greek until the nationalists chimped out!

>>1706471
I already told you, although the Hazaras are not of iranian descent, they are basically persian. It's the other way around for Azeris

>>1706477
>Anatolia was always greek
>There were no Anatolian civilizations or peoples before the Greeks settled there
What are Hittites, just to name one ?

>>1706480
Hazaras are not a Persian people or of native Iranian stock despite speaking Persian as their language, you dumb cuck.

>>1706477
To be fair, Anatolia was originally not Greek until Greeks in the Bronze Age started to heavily colonize and migrate the shit out of it. But the idea that Turks ever constituted or assimilated others then vice versa is hilarious shit, I'll agree.

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>>1706401
Seriously, what the actual fuck is up with this?
>Iranian-Azeris are closer to Georgians
>while Republic ones are closer to Iranians
This makes no sense geographically.

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>>1706480

>although the Hazaras are not of iranian descent, they are basically persian. It's the other way around for Azeris

But that's the thing, Hazaras are not Persian. Nobody in Iran sees Hazaras as Persians. Even Hazaras themselves usually don't consider themselves Persian. They're basically Turks who speak Persian, while for Azeris it's the opposite: they're Iranians who speak Turkish.

I think Turks in general have some very skewed ideas of what "ethnicity" means. For you guys, I assume just speaking Turkish would be enough to be considered Turkic.

For Iranians, "Iranic" means having Iranian ancestry, that is, ancestry that primarily has its origins in Iran.

There are Black Africans in Iran, living in one city along the Persian Gulf. Descendants of slaves from Safavid times, I believe.

They can all speak Persian, but they are not considered to be ethnic Persians.

Pic related, I guess.

>>1706510

Could be that Georgians settled in Iranian Azerbaijan during the Safavid era.

I remember hearing that Iranians from central Iran (Isfahanis in particular) were closer to Georgians and Armenians than to most other Persians.

I believe the reason was something to do with mass migrations/relocations of Caucasians into Isfahan, most of which intermarried and assimilated into the city.

>>1706521
Guess that makes sense, gracias.

>>1706512
I guess there's no point in denying I'm turkish. Anyway

>For you guys, I assume just speaking Turkish would be enough to be considered Turkic.
I guess that's what having no actual genetic identity does to you, heh. That said, many Azerbaijani Azeris I have talked to consider themselves "brothers" of the Turks and vice versa, although I can't say that about Iranian Azeris. Nowadays with the whole nationalism shit in Turkey, people are often really confused who to even consider turkish and who not to, but generally if one of your parents is turkish you count as a Turk

>>1706510
>>1706521
Persians, Ottoman Turks, and Russians were constantly displacing, moving, and relocating forcibly peoples in the Caucasus and Near East. Persians were doing it since the late 8th century BC to the 19th century AD to Ciracassians, Georgians, Albanians, Dagestanis, Arabs, Kurds, Balouchs, etc...

>>1706521
Not necessarily but there are a shit ton of Georgians, Armenians, and Gilaks along side Persians in Isfahan. Persians from Isfahan are still closer to other Persians then non-Iranians in Iran.

>>1706531

>I guess that's what having no actual genetic identity does to you, heh

You do have one, it's just that your culture doesn't match your genetic identity. I don't know if there is even much known about Anatolian culture.

>That said, many Azerbaijani Azeris I have talked to consider themselves "brothers" of the Turks and vice versa

Yeah, the separation of Iranian Azerbaijan and Caucasian Azerbaijan by the Russians removed most of the ties of Caucasus Azeris to Iran.

>although I can't say that about Iranian Azeris

The vast majority do consider themselves Iranian, and funnily enough modern Iranian nationalism and Pan-Iranism was pretty much created by Azeris.

The guy who did the research on the origins of Azeris and the Old Azeri language was an Azeri himself (Ahmad Kasravi, read up on him, he's pretty interesting).

The only gripe that Azeris have is language rights, personally I think basic language rights (like the ability to teach Azeri language in school) should be granted. That being said, actual separatism is very, very rare.

>Nowadays with the whole nationalism shit in Turkey, people are often really confused who to even consider turkish and who not to, but generally if one of your parents is turkish you count as a Turk

Interesting. What about the Kurds, then? Have there been attempts at assimilating them like with the Greeks and Circassians in Turkey?

In Iran there is ethnic loyalties (particularly among minorities), but loyalty to the Iranian nation comes first, in the end.

Persians and Azeris and Kurds may insult and stereotype each other but when the time comes to defend their nation every Iranian sides with Iran.

Hell, even the Arabs in Iran sided with Iran over Saddam.

>>1694866
The best thing to do is force Azeris to adopt Persian with force. If they refuse, then we need something worse than the Holocaust.

Let's also take out all of the Arabic loan words and go back to "p's" rather than "f's". We should also go back to Pahlavi script, preferably.

It is simple, really. Embrace Iran's divine Zoroastrian heritage or die in the fire of Ohrmazd's righteousness.

"Let's make Iran great again." - Kartir Hangirpe

>>1692674
Azerbaijan will be a part of Zoroastrian Iran in due time. All who oppose shall perish in Ohrmazd's righteous flames.

We have been enshrouded by the darkness of Ahriman for some time, but there is some light.

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>>1706619
>>1706621

>The best thing to do is force Azeris to adopt Persian with force

Kek. Is that you, Kasravi?

>We should also go back to Pahlavi script, preferably

Why stop there? If you're going to go full autism you may as well stop speaking modern Persian and go back to the Avestan language.

>>1706619
>>1706621
t.ali sonboIi

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>>1706629

Shit I saved the thumbnail.

>>1706629
>>1706631
>>1706634
>failings for that anon's blatant false-flagging
You can't be this stupid

>>1706629
>>1706634
>>1706631
Sassanids were superior to Achaemenids because they were more aggressive in defending themselves, yet they still maintained their hearts of gold.

Kartir Hangirpe made graves out of heretics, Khosrau I made a garden of feet out of the Mazdakites, and so forth.

Scaphism to all those who oppose the glory of Ohrmazd. Middle Persian is superior to Old Persian (inc. Avestan) because the Sassanids were a culmination of everything that is great with the Persian spirit with their hyper-fascism. Azeris who abandon Islam and embrace Ohrmazd shall be honorary Aryan citizens, but those who don't, shall be slain.

Let us pretend to be Muslims a little longer and then revive the glory of Ahura Mazda. The land of Turan and all of the North Caucasus shall be ours, and every single man and women will worshiping Ohmrazd and glory of His light rather than the Ahriman that is Allah.

Mecca will be burned.

>>1706629
Avesta and Young Avesta was never a majority language in Iranian lands. There's a reason why Persian surpassed and completely it in the first place with Median, Bactarian, and other younger Iranian/Iranic languages within a few centuries.

>>1706676
Achaemenids were never important to Persian ethos. They were actually failures and stupid. Once Iranians learn of the Sassanids deeply, their hearts yearn to achieve their glory once more.

It is the Sassanids that made us who we are, and their hyper-fascism and nationalism provide the future Iran needs.

I can make Iran great again. I can be the Hitler Iran needs.

>>1706681
>>1706675
Your bait isn't working.

>>1706686
It's not hard. Transitioning to Middle Persian and adopting a more modernist Zoroastrianism is not difficult.

>>1706701
Keep shitposting, at least you'll get banned for it in time.

>>1706712
I'm not shitposting. Azeris plot the same as other Iranians on autosomal DNA plot. Pan-Iranian mixed with Zoroastrian revivalism is best for all Iranian people.

>>1706714
You are really bad at baiting, dude.

>>1706728
Nah, I'm serious. Nationalistic fascism can help unite all Iranian people under the banner of Farahavar. What's wrong with that? Many of us sincerely want it.

>>1706742
Have another (You), dude.

>>1706751
Whatever, Shia is basically heresy to Sunni and is basically crying out to break out of the genealogy of Islam. Mulla Sadra and Shahab al-Din Suhrawardi were good Shia philosophers inspired by Greek and Zoroastrian thought...

Considering all of the good aspects of Islam come from Greek and Zoroastrian influence, why not just abandon Islam altogether and develop a Pan-Iranic Greco-Zoroastrianism?

All Iranians should speak ONE common language and follow ONE religion that makes us all unite. If not, then I don't consider them Iranian, it's that simple. Azeris should associate themselves more with their Pre-Islamic past than Post-Islamic.

>>1706760

>All Iranians should speak ONE common language

I agree, all Iranians should speak Gilaki.

Also:

>Greco-Zoroastrianism

The fuck?

>>1706774
>I agree, all Iranians should speak Gilaki.
If that makes Iranians unite, fine. The point is we should speak ONE Iranian language, that's it.

We need one religion to unite us too and Shia (while being better than Sunni by a hundred miles) doesn't cut it. I say, we should make a new form of Zoroastrianism, and I can serve as both the prophet and absolute monarch.

>>1706760
Bait is getting stale now.
>>1706774
>Gilaki
No thanks.

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>>1706806
It's not bait. Azeris are racially Iranian.

We need a strong singular culture that unites us, such as what the Jews have. Check autosomal DNA plots.

>>1707003
Your posts are /pol/ bait about "muh genocide, muh Zoroastrianism", fucker. And Gilaki? Replace Persian or Azeri? I don't think so pal. I never said Azeris weren't racially, in fact several of my posts with others in the thread detailed how the Azeris were not Turkic or Turkish when that one guy was claiming the Safavids were Turkics and everything snowballing from there.

>>1707184
I said Middle Persian is superior for all of us.