[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Free Show | Home]

Was it true that Muslim Iberia was a bastion of multiculturalism,

This is a blue board which means that it's for everybody (Safe For Work content only). If you see any adult content, please report it.

Thread replies: 34
Thread images: 4

File: Al_Andalus_&_Christian_Kingdoms.png (106KB, 670x497px) Image search: [Google]
Al_Andalus_&_Christian_Kingdoms.png
106KB, 670x497px
Was it true that Muslim Iberia was a bastion of multiculturalism, tolerance, high culture and scientific advancement before the bigoted Conquistadors drove the Jews and Muslims out?
>>
yes, they also stole architecture from them and now the dirty fucking mexicans use it
>>
>>1680293

In Spain the answer to your question is divided among political lines. Leftists will tell you it was a multicultural paradise, while the right will tell you the Reconquista was a very long liberation war, and the expulsions and Inquisitions that followed after was a national security necessity.

I'm right wing, so I'll tell you it's a meme Spanish "academics" started to push in the post-Franco years. Repressed leftists pushed back hard against monarchs like Isabel and Ferdinand in the post-Franco years because the Generalissimo used the figures of the Reconquista heavily in Spanish propaganda. He even petitioned to have Queen Isabel canonized, and now that Franco is dead the canonization efforts are spinning in place because the Catholic church doesn't want to offend.

I recognize this trope has been pushed by other western "intellectuals" for God knows how long though

The Myth of Andalusian Paradise by Professor Dario Fernandez is one of the few English language works that addresses this
>>
muslim iberia was a long ass periods, the thing youve said is true and happens during Umayyad Emirate and Caliphate of Cordoba periods. however the rest is a shitshow with taifas inviting sandniggs from africa who will then proceed to carve out their own empires like the almoravids and the maridnids
>>
File: The Myth of Andalusian Paradise.jpg (202KB, 683x1024px) Image search: [Google]
The Myth of Andalusian Paradise.jpg
202KB, 683x1024px
>>1680332

https://books.google.com/books?id=PJNgCwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Myth+of+Andalusian+Paradise+by+Professor+Dario+Fernandez&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi06Lyj34bPAhXFNx4KHbzpBgoQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
>>
>>1680293
Reconquista, right full taco land you turban pleb.
>>
>>1680293
Al-Ḥakam II's library in Cordoba had hundreds of thousands of volumes at a time when a monastery was famous if it had a few hundred. Al-Andalus undeniably produced a great amount of poetry, philosophy, and scientific knowledge, and an impressive blossoming of Jewish culture, but it wasn't some kind of multicultural utopia.
>>
So it was either->

Left Wing
>Glorious multi-cultural paradise with tolerance, high culture and scientific advancement

Right Wing
>Murderous repressive theocratic regime, just your typical Middle Ages Islamic state

Hmm...

For the history minded /his/ anon looking for insight in the middle ground with extremist views...

Shit outta luck?
>>
>>1681383
As other anons said, Under The Cordoba kingdom and Umayyad times the muslims were kinda tolerant and progress-driven in all of the areas they controlled. After the decline of the great Emirates Islam started to deteriorate and the pant on heads retarded shitfest we know as Islams today came to be. It is pretty sad to be honest
>>
>>1680293
its multicultural, tolerant, and pretty high culture... for its era

the tolerance part is basically you have certain restrictions and have to pay more taxes as non muslim, that's it, but even that is more tolerant than the whole deus vult and witch hunt of europe.

racial wise moors are pretty mixed like pict >>1680379 suggest, since they see religion rather than race as strong factor, but even then there's allways some power struggle between arabs, berbers, and native hispanic muslims. leftist probably like that aspect too
>>
>>1681383
stop viewing history using contemporary political lenses you absolute retard, how hard can it be?

basically as >>1680337 said ,its a multi-cultural paradise with tolerance, high culture and scientific advancement during the first part and it only went to shit after the taifas started warring each other and invited more north africans to iberia
>>
>>1681383
>Murderous repressive theocratic regime, just your typical Middle Ages Islamic state

your typical Middle Ages Islamic state was actually a lot more tolerant compared to other european states at the time
>>
>>1681443
unironically middle age islamic state is more tolerant than modern islamic state
>>
>>1680293
>No.
>Muslims are incapable of civilzation and only white people can into civilization.

>Btw spanish aren't white and have no real achievement anyway.
>>
Al-Andalus wasn't the tolerant paradise everybody believes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_C%C3%B3rdoba
>>
>>1681456
This is pathetic desu
>>
>>1680332
That's only by people who are not historians. For what I was told in the UAM and what is said in the academic circles it wasn't a multicultural paradise. They only coexist because economy.

There were christians in muslim cities only beacuse they couldn't convert them all and they kill them many times and they lived separated.

Jews were something similar but they were a small minority. They were appreciated by castillian kings because they lend money to them.
>>
File: 1470162249995.png (321KB, 866x558px) Image search: [Google]
1470162249995.png
321KB, 866x558px
>>1680293
>>
File: Islamic Spain tolerance.png (782KB, 600x888px) Image search: [Google]
Islamic Spain tolerance.png
782KB, 600x888px
>>1680293
No, it's revisionism.
>>
>>1681443
... according to modern leftist pseudo-intellectuals. Have you been paying attention to the thread at all?
>>
>>1680293
The rulers discriminated against Iberian converts, but nowhere near what the Christians did when they got back in power.
>>
>>1683175
Muslims were always against apostasy, i.e Muslims converting to Christianity, but they treated heathens who had been heathens much better than Christians did.
>>
>>1680293
Muslim Iberia wasn't a single long-lived entity for all it's existence. This cordobese state in you map was relatively short lived (less than 200 years of emirate, less than 100 years of caliphate). Different muslim kingdoms ruled by different dynasties with different priorities ruled iberia after that. And then there's the conflict between native muslims and invaders from north africa, who were way more brutal.
>>
>>1683166
Could you please verify that source? When did he say that and in what context?
>>
>>1683246
Secret Conversations, 1941-1944, Farrar, Straus and Young, 1953, p. 542
>>
>>1683225
Why did eastern paganism disappear with the early Arabic conquests?

More ''''''intellectual'''''' revisionism.
>>
>>1683280
Muslims hated the shit out of pagans. Christians did too. People of the book can be okay in some circumstances, filthy pagans - not.
>>
>>1683175
"Golden Age doesn't necessarily means that everyone was skipping through a field of flowers while holding hands under a rainbow
>>
>>1683166
>Arab
Muslim*
>>
>>1683344
Not to mention that islamic golden age means the time were everything was golden for the muslim civilization. It's irrelevant if life was shitty or not for those outside it and to some degree even for the individual muslims. I dont' get why people insists that a golden age is supposed to be compared with anything unrelated to the specific civilization.

Even if we were to suppose that the greatest achievement of the islamic golden age was to prevent Ahmed from fucking his goats, it would still be the Islamic Golden Age as long as Ahmed fucked the goats before and after it but not during the age. Same with the golden age of any other civilization, religion, ideology, etc.
>>
>>1683185
As a Jew I would much rather live in al Andalus than in Germany in the middle ages
>>
>>1680332

You're picturing it as if they were equally wrong in the same degree, which is bullshit.The Francoist view was tainted with national-catholicism to meme tier levels. The 'leftist' revisionism as you call it, was an effort to put things right in a more rational, educated and de-prejudiced fashion. Obviously you'll have a bunch of faggots going too far and using buzzwords left and right hat mean nothing without a context.

Such as this 'multicultural society of peaceful coexistance between religions and classes and so on'. It certainly wasn't that paradise of tolerance, but compared to the rest of the old world at the time, where Charlemagne was slaughtering pagan saxons every now and then and the Roman Church commited to a systematic program of converting the shit out of pagans, removing heretics and establishing a political infrastructure of power in Europe, then, by relative comparison, the Caliphate of Al-Andalus was a haven of religious tolerance and progress.
>>
>>1683462

I SHED THE BLOOD OF FOUR THOUSAND SAXON MEN

>program of converting the shit out of pagans, removing heretics and establishing a political infrastructure of power in Europe

ie unifying the continent
>>
>>1683246
why does that surprise you? Nietzsche said pretty much the same thing, Hitler was just parroting him.
Thread posts: 34
Thread images: 4


[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Top | Home]

I'm aware that Imgur.com will stop allowing adult images since 15th of May. I'm taking actions to backup as much data as possible.
Read more on this topic here - https://archived.moe/talk/thread/1694/


If you need a post removed click on it's [Report] button and follow the instruction.
DMCA Content Takedown via dmca.com
All images are hosted on imgur.com.
If you like this website please support us by donating with Bitcoins at 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties.
Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site.
This means that RandomArchive shows their content, archived.
If you need information for a Poster - contact them.