"Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father,

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>Catholics

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Is this a Moby Dick bread?
>nope.bmp

>>1678237
Everyone is so willing to say "Catholics believe this, so it is Christian" when no one looks outside of commonly accepted ideas of Catholicism.

Christ tells us not to call anyone "father" beside the Father in Heaven, yet every priest is titled father.

Why is Jesus called Son of David if he isn't biologically related to Joseph? Matthew 1 and Luke 3 give accounts of Jesus' genealogy through Joseph, although both accounts differ, also.

Why did The Lord lie in Genesis 6 in comparison to Genesis 11 when The Lord said no man shall live more than 120 years?

Some people actually read the Bible intelligently. :)

>>1678163
My dad is sitting across from me.

I hope none of you proddies have ever called the man who sired you "father" by that logic.

>>1678295
The geneology is the same Adam, Abraham, and David.

>"The second thing is that this genealogy differs in significant ways from the genealogy in Matthew. Why? Most Bible scholars believe that Luke gives the genealogy of Mary (who was also of the royal Davidic line), while Matthew traces the family of Joseph. Thus by both His mother and His earthly father, Jesus had a right to the throne of Israel."

The Son of David is a respectable title, the genealogies do not differ in pointing Him as a descendant of David, Solomon is the son of David, but something "greater than Solomon" is here.

What are the quotes from Genesis you have a concern with?

>>1678311
How can you Catholics be so braindead? It obviously means not to call any father in a religious context as an extension of the 1st Commandment.

>>1678305
It is obvious, that Christ Yeshua would be like "that is your earth father, your dad", but in this case, the term "Father" is to title God, not the priest who acts as an intermediary for God, when Christ is actually the intermediary.

>>1678305
This board is 18+ only

>>1678295
>And the Pharisees being gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying: What think you of Christ? whose son is he? They say to him: David's. He saith to them: How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying: The Lord said to my Lord, Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

What did He mean by this?

But Jesus was a man

>>1678266
"father" is the meaning, literally, of one of many of the Creator's surnames.

>>1678342
20

I do think that this is an hyperbole. Obviously every man and woman has a biological father. But, the meaning is that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers.

>>1678347
>Matthew Henry Commentary
>22:41-46 When Christ baffled his enemies, he asked what thoughts they had of the promised Messiah? How he could be the Son of David and yet his Lord? He quotes Ps 110:1. If the Christ was to be a mere man, who would not exist till many ages after David's death, how could his forefather call him Lord? The Pharisees could not answer it. Nor can any solve the difficulty except he allows the Messiah to be the Son of God, and David's Lord equally with the Father. He took upon him human nature, and so became God manifested in the flesh; in this sense he is the Son of man and the Son of David. It behoves us above all things seriously to inquire, What think we of Christ? Is he altogether glorious in our eyes, and precious to our hearts? May Christ be our joy, our confidence, our all. May we daily be made more like to him, and more devoted to his service.

Why would David call his own Son, Lord?

>No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions. Mathew 22:46

Gives chills sometimes to see the debates between the Jews and Christ Yeshua.

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1 Corinthians 4:15
1 John 2:13
1 Timothy 5:1 (note that "elder" is a translation of "presbyter")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoyZtkrU0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noetoc2W4Pc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw8XE3j_c0U

Call no man Father means don't see any man as your ultimate authority and source of your existence. "Father" as a title for man, can only ever be used in his capacity relative to God. We have a tendency (and this was a lot more acute in ancient times, especially among the Romans) to the one's Father as one's ultimate authority, spiritual or biological. Christ said he is literally of no authority compared to God, any authority he does have is only in his capacity from God. Any time we use "Father" for a man, it can only be one of endearment of respect, for no man is ultimately our Father, only temporally. You will have no biological or spiritual Father in the Age to Come, he is only serving a role. So don't get carried away and start seeing this role as something more than a role.

>>1678238
what do i do to her breasts, anus, mouth, and vagina?

>>1678450
The Age to Come is now, and Our Father art in Heaven.

It is the "fathers", all of the dominating patriarchs of religious culture, using their power over those who they are supposed to help enlighten, and allowing people still to fall into empty deceit using religion as a mask. You may not do this personally. Someone's role as a priest and being called father is not the problem, and calling your biological dad your father does not make you stupid, it is calling them "father" in the sense that humanity gives its religious judgment away for the sake of the opinion and consensus of the councils that came after the religious reformer.

The Reformer is reforming religion, and does not need to be reformed by people claiming its authority.

>>1678466
Councils don't have any authority of themselves. Councils are called to *resolve disputes about what Christ taught*. They aren't about promulgating new doctrines.

>>1678450
You're ignoring what it clearly says

>>1678486
They may or may not be promoting new doctrines. Does Christ teach us to Last Supper every Sunday? Does Catholic mean Universal or does it mean not Protestant, not Baptist, not Orthodox? If thou shall not kill, why persecute a heretic? What makes a heretic a heretic, and why is Christ also a heretic?

They have authority when people lord their opinions over to the "authorities of the councils" which exist as a power.

Each council has a new doctrine. Each denomination preaches a different gospel from each other, being separate from what unites them, Christ Yeshua.

>>1678504
Baptists are Protestant

>>1678504
>Each denomination preaches a different gospel from each other
That is complete bullshit
>Yeshua
What are you a judaizer?

>>1678492
So you're telling us that Christ just then invented for us an 11th Commandment?

>>1678492
No, I'm following the ancient exegesis, which is recorded. And the only one that actually works with the rest of the NT

>>1678504
The Last Supper every Sunday isn't a doctrine, though, it's more of a habit of the Church. The reason it is observed, is because since Communion is seen as very, very spiritually beneficial, it's observed generally wherever it is possible, which it is on most Sundays.

"Catholic" means "complete".

Orthodox don't advocate persecuting heretics. The only ones that were actually killed by Church involvement, were the Old Believers (who were dangerous fanatics), and the Patriarch responsible for that was defrocked and exiled to a monastery.

A heretic means someone who distorts or takes away from Christ's teachings or adds teachings as his that were never his.

No, Councils don't have authority like that. In the majority of cases, a Council's validity is not fully determined until hundreds of years after it. The Council of Florence, for instance, was supported by all the clergy save Saint Mark of Ephesus, but it was not a valid council, and it was ultimately rejected.

No council has a new doctrine. This much is quite clear with the Eastern verse Oriental Orthodox: we split over semantics, and since the split, the Eastern Orthodox have had several councils that the Oriental were not a part of, yet to this day we share the same doctrines, even though they were not a part of those councils; if councils created new doctrines, this would not be the case.

>>1678538
So everything God ordered outside of the Ten Commandments was trolling?

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>>1678163
>>>/x/ here...
Did Jesus die once for the sins of all sentient species?
OR does Jesus have to be crucified on each planet where sentient life has developed?
How can we be so arrogant as a species to believe we are the sole recipients in the Universe of YHWH's grace through the death of his son?

Just golly.

>>1678535
>That is complete bullshit
If it was, the churches would be realized in Christ without being separate from each other. Christ says "take this, my Body, and my Blood", uniting the apostles and the disciples, but how can you be divided in the Kingdom of Heaven? How can you be separate from a fellow Christian because of denomination?

>>1678539
It's eisegesis

>>1678554
No, eisegesis is mainly accomplished by taking a verse completely out of context with the rest of Scripture. Exegesis generally involves looking at the rest of Scripture to understand what a verse means. Since this reading of the verse is contingent on the rest of the Bible, such as the verses I mentioned, it's more properly understood as exegesis.

>>1678539
The separation of the church is a new doctrine in itself.

>>1678553
So because you go to a different church that means you have a different gospel? Did you read that before you posted it?

>>1678539
So then justification by faith alone isn't heretical?

>>1678562
You're ignoring what it clearly says. Orthodoxy is heresy. Repent and believe the gospel.

>>1678548
>"I am the Way, I am the Truth, I am the Life."

The life, is the source of energy that sustains us, our soul, from Our Father. God is Source Energy and all living beings, plants, animals, aliens, all have this Life within them. All living things manifested in the Universe that are alive, have Life within.

>>1678563
No, since that separation is canonical, not doctrinal. Canons and doctrines are considered very distinct by the Orthodox. Canons are rules that come from man and are subject to change; they are useful for function, sometimes they are harmful as well though; but they are not doctrine. Doctrine is something that violating or denying is heretical. Violating a canon is called "non-canonical", and generally a problem, but it's not heretical, that is, it's not a violation of the teachings Christ personally gave the Church.

>>1678570
It is if by "faith alone" you mean works don't matter, since Christ made it expressly clear that works are crucial.

>>1678576
Do you think it is ignoring what Christ said if you don't pluck out your eye or cut of your hand for doing sin?

>>1678566
The churches are different from each other, following the same person. Sure, we are all different, but why are Christians so separate? Because the consensus of opinions by "church fathers"? Nonsense, their truths, opinions and revelations are just as important than the churches, but they don't believe it because they decided to call someone else "father" meaning, they let the "authorities" make a decision for them

>>1678584
What was "call no man father" a metaphor for?

>>1678582
Each canon will produce its own doctrine. Their doctrine is their way of division, rather than a doctrine.

>>1678582
We are justified by faith alone but not a faith that is alone.

>>1678593
It's not a "metaphor", it's hyperbole to accentuate a point. Just like the injunction to pluck out your eye.

>>1678598
It's not hyperbole. You can't get hyperbole from the text alone. You are turning the command on it's head.

>>1678594
No, canons don't produce doctrines.

The semantic distinctions (which cause the canonical distinction) are not doctrinal, both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox agree on that. Which is why we often partake of Communion with each other, because even though there is a canonical separation, doctrinally we are One Church.

>>1678596
This is splitting hairs.

>>1678600
That's correct, you can't get hyperbole from the verse by itself, ripped from the rest of the Bible. You get it from looking through the rest of the Bible as a lens to interpret the verse. That's mainly what distinguishes exegesis from eisegesis, the latter typically eschews using the rest of the Bible for a reference in interpreting a verse.

>>1678603
>This is splitting hairs.
No it's not. Works come from true faith the same way fruit comes from a tree. Does the fruit produce the tree?

>>1678617
>Does the fruit produce the tree?
Yep.

>>1678603
So Protestants can take Eucharist at a Catholic church, and a Catholic takes Eucharist at a Orthodox church? Because without the title before it, it would be a Church?

Their traditions still separate from each other. The Roman Catholics will keep producing their traditions, while the Protestants will keep producing their traditions, based on the doctrines that came after the gospels.

They may not be literal doctrines, but if Martin Luther decided not to write, Protestantism would not be so popular. Same thing with Constantine and the conversion, if that did not become a new doctrine, then it wouldn't even have power.

>>1678612
Why is it every time i read the actually hyperbolic verses the hyperbole is oblivious? This style of interpretation is rather Valentinian.

>>1678623
b8?

>>1678633
No, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox can, in numerous cases, take the Eucharist with each other. Neither of us can take it with Catholics or Protestants, neither can Catholics or Protestants take it with us.

Constantine's conversion wasn't a doctrine, it was a conversion. Doctrine literally means "teaching," and in Orthodoxy, it means Christ's teachings specifically.

>>1678635
The style of interpreting Scripture through Scripture, instead of just ripping out a verse and giving a private interpretation, is Valentinian?

Whether or not you personally find something "obvious" has literally zero bearing in Scriptural exegesis.

>>1678639
All trees came from a seed, which comes from fruit.

>>1678654
The body is Christ is not separate. If you take communion in an Orthodox Church, it should come from the same Body of Christ as the Catholic Church. If not, the Body of Christ is being intentionally separated by the Churches, which is contrary to the unification of the Spirit.

It is a doctrine is the sense that their traditions become doctrines because of how powerful they are. People wont look into Christianity because of its strong association with a particular denomination, showing how powerful the denominations are.

Christ is the same person in all religions. The teachings of the Christ are first. Every other church organization is just an organization, having commonly accepted opinions and commonly disliked groups.

>>1678623
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

>>1678673
We don't believe the RCC is part of the Body of Christ

>>1678677
How is "faith" vs. "true faith" anything other than No True Scotsman?

>>1678693
Why? What makes Roman Catholic Christ Communion different than your own?

>>1678654
The process of twisting the clear meaning of the verse to mean something completely different is Valentinian.

>>1678693
>How is "faith" vs. "true faith" anything other than No True Scotsman?
False profession of faith.

>>1678976
They're heretical

>>1679125
I'm not twisting it, I'm reading it through the rest of the Bible, instead of on its own. You can either abstract a verse from the rest of the Bible, or read it through the rest of the Bible. The first is generally easier and "clearer", but not always correct.

>>1679129
What's false about it?

>>1679153
>I'm not twisting it, I'm reading it through the rest of the Bible, instead of on its own. You can either abstract a verse from the rest of the Bible, or read it through the rest of the Bible. The first is generally easier and "clearer", but not always correct.
I can use your exact same methodology to prove Gnosticism.

>What's false about it?
In their heart they unbelieve.

>>1679303
>I can use your exact same methodology to prove Gnosticism.
No, you can't. Gnosticism throws out most of the Bible in order to work, that's the opposite of using the Bible to understand the Bible.

>In their heart they unbelieve.
I doubt that, demons surely believe, as Saint James pointed out.

>>1679321
Orthodoxy is heresy There is no salvation in it REPENT

>>1679153
You could explain why you believe they are heretical.

>>1679344
The Donation of Constantine and the Filioque are the principle issues, but a lot more has cropped up since the schism.

>>1679387
All Christians believe in the teaching of the Christ. Everything else, denomination, creed, all came after Christ.

There is one God, one Body of Christ, one Holy Spirit. The churches are to busy dividing the body, all of them, decided who is who, good or bad, who is a heretic, who is a saint. It is almost like a scam, and almost like they intentionally divided themselves to confuse the masses of the true Christ.

>>1679398
But Catholics add teachings and claim they are Christ's, which is a serious issue. And Protestant subtract from Christ's teachings, which is a serious issue.

>>1679418
But you could accuse Orthodox and Gnostics of the same, when all Christians are Christ's and all non-Christians still are source energy of the Father.

>>1679424
No, the Father is the source of *their* energy....

>>1679424
All things are energy of the Father, originating from the Father.

>>1679428
The Father is the Source of All

>>1679461
Right. I'm not sure what your point is.

>>1679466
That even those you argue with, there is great agreement. Those who are heretical to you follow the same teachings of the one we believe in.

>>1679483
No, if they follow his teachings, they wouldn't add or subtract from them.

>>1679500
They do follow His teachings, but denomination is a formality. Just like everyone else, living life. Just like you.

What makes you think your denomination is the only one that doesn't do this? Every denomination has added something to say about Christ's teachings, and all denominations claim exclusivity to Christ

>>1678539
>Old Believers
Please notate that this is only Russian Orthodox Church-related. Not Pan Orthodox.

>>1679518


the Orthodox Church isn't a denomination, it's the whole Church. A denomination means a part of the Church, a slice, a sect.

You can see we don't do it. Over 1,500 years of separation from Oriental Orthodox, yet we still have identical doctrines. No other Christian group has had continuous and unchanging teachings for that long.

>>1678976
Drinking the consecrated Blood from a chalice, for one.

>>1679569
Catholics didn't even allow laity to partake of the blood for hundreds and hundreds of years.

>>1679565
The Orthodox Church is a denomination. If it were the Whole Church, the Body of Christ would be the same in all Churches, including the Roman Catholic. It is a type of Christianity that is separate from the others, just like the others. Do you identify as Catholic or Orthodox? It matters not because they believe in the same Christ. Why are they so divided, because of doctrines that come after Christ.

>>1679569
But even if we do not fully agree with it, it may mean something for someone else. Christ may have someone be a devout Catholic, or a devout Orthodox, who is everyone else to judge what religion someone else decides to be?

>"If you judge, you may be judged likewise"
Every church that says another church is heretical, they become a heretical denomination, because they have judged one another in such a way.

>>1679588
>Why are they so divided, because of doctrines that come after Christ.
Not him, but the RCC broke from the Church due to the Pope desiring temporal power and Satan's sweet promises of power. From there, the RCC made more and more innovations, so recent (and the recantation of) the ascension of Mary upon her repose.

>>1679592
As Christians, we are not to judge others in life, but absolutely in belief and theology in order to bring them to Christ and the Church established by Him and His Apostles.

>>1679599
That is a bias belief.

>>1679607
Judging their theology is still judgment. They could believe in the same thing, in a different language and culture, and the first thing that comes to mind to most Christians is "heresy", without even acknowledging the person's knowledge or experience.

Christians make terrible judgments about the religious views of others. Not all of them.

>>1679624
Heresy is heresy. Read up on the Church history, Church Tradition, and the Church Fathers.

>Judging their theology is still judgment. They could believe in the same thing, in a different language and culture, and the first thing that comes to mind to most Christians is "heresy", without even acknowledging the person's knowledge or experience.
You're sounding like a post-modern "human race" lefty, bud. Plato may have seen some truth, but he was still in the dark and in Hades. Upon Christ going to Hades, Plato was the first to repent to Christ. No matter a belief, there is no Salvation without Christ, His teachings, and the Church established through Him.

>>1679588
If Orthodoxy is a type of Christianity, it's the type Christ taught.

>>1679588
>Why are they so divided, because of doctrines that come after Christ.
That's true, but not Orthodox doctrines. Catholic doctrines.

>>1679661
>Upon Christ going to Hades, Plato was the first to repent to Christ.
What are you basing this on?

I'm Orthodox and I'm not saying that's not conceivable, but we certainly weren't taught that happened one way or the other.

>>1679661
Heresy is an idea the Church made up. Their only tradition should be God. There is no "Church father" "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" (Matt. 23:9).

Where is Plato saved by Christ? I believe it, but reading whatever you got that from would be even better.

The Church established through Christ could have happened sometime around 30 AD, and this true group gathering with the disciples and apostles would be the best way to understand, "The True Church" that Christ established. All these councils are nonsense, and only create division for themselves, and still, press the division even more

>>1679709
The same way "Protestantism" is the Christianity Christ taught? The same way Catholics say Christ is Catholic and the same way Orthodox is what Christ taught. Wait, Christ is also Jewish. Also, He is Muslim, A Prophet. Let's also not forget that if you ask a Hindu or a Buddhist, they will tell you He was a yogi and a saint.

>>1679721
Lives of the Saints, September.

>>1679745
Protestantism doesn't have a continuous existence tracing back an earlier than the Reformation.

"Judaism" as the term is used today, means Pharisaic Judaism. Obviously Christ didn't teach that.

Christ objectively didn't teaching the Filioque.

Islam doesn't trace a continuous existence, they rely on "rediscovering"

Your logic is terrible, you're just saying "dude lol truth is relative, everyone's perspective is equally valid." No, that in itself is an idea incompatible with Christianity.

Your logic is terrible

>>1679762
I mean, what is the primary source?

>>1679770
Your perspective is equally valid, you could say that every other religion is inconsistent.

>>1679803
A perspective's validity is contingent upon it being true.

>>1679803
Faith. The coming of Christ was prophesied, and he fulfilled them all. He is God.

>>1679774
I'd have to find it, I can't recall which Saint this was revealed to, but it's in Lives of the Saints, September.

Priests are called "father" because they stand in for God the Father, who is God the Son, who is Jesus. The priest is Jesus' representative on Earth, he mystically represents God, and so is called "father" as a result. A priest can be both fully human and fully acting as God.

I'll understand if that level of mysticism goes over the heads of most Protestants.

>>1679853
Me thinks it has more to do with the roman tradition of calling elders "father"

>>1679853
Priests are not God.

>>1679853
Yeah, that has something to do with it, but more it's just that "father" was a term of respect for male elders in general in ancient times, and kissing their hand was a common way of greeting them (which is why Orthodox still do it with priests). Also the father was the one who lead prayer in houses, and the Church, being a large house, is lead in prayer by the father.

We don't really understand it modernism, since using terms like "pops" and gramps" in a general sense, are more humorous or slang. They didn't have much of a term for "Mister" in ancient times, so Father served the purpose.

>>1679827
Two different perspectives hold two different truths, and there are thousands of different perspectives.

>>1679839
And everyone calls on Christ like it says in the Bible, even faiths that are not identifying as Christian will explain Christ in a good way.

>>1679853
What Christ says in Matthew 23:9

>>1679898
>Two different perspectives hold two different truths
No, there is only one truth. If perspectives are complimentary and different ones are both true, it is because perspectives aren't generally comprehensive; both perspectives will also contain untruths and distortions of the truth. That doesn't apply to truth revealed by God.

>>1679869
But God works through them. That's why they can administer the Sacraments.

>>1679898
>even faiths that are not identifying as Christian will explain Christ in a good way.
Are you referencing non-Trinitarian religiions like Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Manichaism? If so, they are demonic as they do not admit, realize, or recognize Christ as God. They do not believe in God.

>>1679912
Of course, through the Holy Spirit. This does not mean they are God.

>>1679906
There is only one Truth in God. When it comes to religious debates, there are many sides and many different ideas. The truth that God revealed Himself to all faiths is true. Every religion and section of religion all is pointing in the same place. IF you want to say "but this faith does this and I don't like it because it doesn't agree" you have that right and freedom to believe that and justify it as you please. That is the validity in your perspective.

>>1679921
According to your idea, "They don't believe", but if you step shoes in those people of those faith, you might learn that they believe in what you believe. The may not recognize Christ the same way, but they still respect the name of Christ.
>>1679921

>>1679925
Moron

Nobody thinks priests are gods

But let's see how proddies treat binle like Quran

>>1679944
>According to your idea, "They don't believe", but if you step shoes in those people of those faith, you might learn that they believe in what you believe. The may not recognize Christ the same way, but they still respect the name of Christ.

>They believe that Christ is not God.
>Same as Orthodox Christians
"No"

Tell me, what is your Faith?

>>1679973
>Nobody thinks priests are gods
Seems like this guy does >>1679853
>A priest can be both fully human and fully acting as God.

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>>1678577
>"I am the Way, I am the Truth, I am the Life."
Come on. You're quoting Jesus, not YHWH.
Did Jesus die on Earth for the sins of the aliens?

>>1679977
It is weird to see many Christians follow the same Christ and be in illusion that they are going different places. Faiths that do not identify as Christian still can venerate Christ, follow His teaching, His passion, His resurrection, therefore Christian. Christ is outside of religious barriers. God is above all of our quarreling with each other. The Holy Spirit is in all.

>>1679996
Christ died for the salvation of all Life.

>>1680003
If you follow Christ, you follow the Gospels and the Creed, and are a Christian. I don't see what's so hard about that. Seems to me that you're just looking for excuses.

>>1680003
>Faiths that do not identify as Christian still can venerate Christ
If they are not Christian they inherently do not profess that Christ is God in the flesh, who was crucified, buried, and three days later was resurrected, fulfilling scripture. He is God. Veneration is for Saints, John the Baptist, the Most Holy Mary the Theotokos, etc, but they are all human. They are not God, Christ is God.
They are not worshiped, only venerated.
Again, what is your faith, and where are you from?

>>1679984
The only reason why preists "act" as God is because God works through them when they administer Sacraments

That's it.

But let this get over your head

>>1680022
>The only reason why preists "act" as God is because God works through them when they administer Sacraments
Pretty sure a better way to put it is that they are filled with the Holy Spirit, not "becoming God". What's your first language?

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>>1679944
>The truth that God revealed Himself to all faiths is true.
No, it ain't.

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>>1679853
>God the Father, who is God the Son

>>1680052
John 14:9

>>1680018
That is why Christ is outside the barrier of religious identity, because we are all united in the Spirit. Christ is not separate from other identities of faith, because they are the same.

>>1680021
You can have any religion and still admit Yeshua is the Christ.

>>1679969
Fuck, you're back?

>>1680061
Yeah, sure, but what exactly you mean by "the Christ" is what matters

>>1680045
Every faith will identify God in some way.

>>1680058
It is so obvious that is referring to the fact Jesus is a mediator and we can reach the Father through him. Your heresy is called Modalism.

>>1680061
Unless you modify the meaning of Christ and Messiah (and to be fair, the popular understanding of the terms has shifted enough that someone could do this in good faith), no, you can't

>>1680069
"He who believes in God, but does not confess Him as the Father of the Son, does not believe in a god that is the true God, but in some personal invention."
-Theophan the Recluse

>>1680068
Anyone of any faith can believe in the Christ, the same way any Christian can believe in Buddha.

>>1680076
>but what exactly you mean by "the Christ" is what matters

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>>1680013
>Christ died for the salvation of all Life.
[citation needed]
The question is about sentient beings on other planets. How can they accept Jesus as their savior? Does He visit the other planets? Did He die on those planets too?

Arrogance.
WE are NOT that important. WE are insignificant. Jesus DID NOT come JUST HERE to save homo sapiens.
It's just so silly and primitive.

Have a blessed day
>pic not related

>>1680061
>You can have any religion and still admit Yeshua is the Christ.
Muslims don't. Mormons don't. All Jews but Messianic Jews don't. Your point is disproved.

>>1678163

"Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged"

-Colossians 3:21

;)

>>1680082
He didn't say they did, they said they could. And Muslims do believe Jesus was the Christ/messiah, they just don't think he was the son of God.

>>1680088
>don't think he was the son of God.
which is blasphemy

>>1680027
I am pretty sure the Holy Spirit is considered God

>>1680082
>Mormons don't.
nigguh wut

>>1680071
Christ's name does not need to be modified. It needs to be understood.

>>1680074
According to the author, they don't believe in the true God, but honestly, they expect too much from non-Christians too soon, and instead of teach Christ's teachings, the preach all their traditions and preach if they don't convert they go to hell.

Yet again, you can be an atheist and believe Christ is the Son of God, or even be a Muslim and believe Christ is the Son of God. How? Religious labels is what separates God's people, making them feel "in order to be this, you must believe everything we say you have to" shunning others for their different perspectives.

>>1680079
It doesn't matter what someone else says "Christ" means, it matters what Christ actually is.

>>1680088
>And Muslims do believe Jesus was the Christ/messiah, they just don't think he was the son of God.
No, they don't. Their false prophet says as much. At the most, they believe He was a prophet, but they believe that a pedophile warlord was better in every way than Christ. What you are saying is heresy, at the very least. It's a straight path to hell, and apostasy for any Christian.

>>1680097
We don't make any claims about who is going to hell or not.

Orthodox Christianity is the truth, the rest are lies.

>>1680101
And if what they mean by "Christ" isn't what Christ actually is, then it doesn't really matter if they call him that.

>>1680097
>you can not believe any deities exist but still believe one specific historical person was one

>>1680095
Mormons do not accept or acknowledge Christ as the Son of God, or God in the flesh. Also, they marry people to the dead as a "sacrament". They are a cult, a non-Christian group.

>>1680106
No, they just have a very different definition of what messiah means, similar to how Christians have a very different definition of what messiah means, similar to how both of them have a very different definition to the Jews as to what messiah means.

>>1680117
>No, they just have a very different definition of what messiah means, similar to how Christians have a very different definition of what messiah means, similar to how both of them have a very different definition to the Jews as to what messiah means.
They do not believe that Christ is the Messiah. Jews refuse to accept that he fulfilled Scripture and the Old Testament prophecies. Mohamed propagated lies about Christ, such as about his resurrection. Muslims also believe that Christ will lead a violent army, which is false. Islam is a false religion that worships a demon, no God.

>>1680081
There are plenty of outer world characters in the Bible and in other texts. God is the source of all life, so all living forms of Life are the same in God. Plants, animals, humans, angels, even aliens, all life is living and from God. Everything is important, we are all significant. All.

>>1680082
They can. Everyone can.

>>1680110
Christ means exactly what He does.

>>1680111
You can believe in anything.

>>1680132
>Jews refuse to accept that he fulfilled Scripture and the Old Testament prophecies.
Because according to their understanding, he didn't, and when actually looking into their extremely specific requirements for being a messiah they have a point. The gospel authors managed to shove a square peg into a round hole and made up the difference by changing the definition.
>Muslims also believe that Christ will lead a violent army, which is false.
It's in Revelation, at the very least.

>>1680141
You're a blasphemer, simple as that. Christ is God, Christ is the Messiah. Everyone can accept Christ, yes, but as the Son of God. God, who came down from the Heavens and became Flesh through the Holy Virgin Mary, according to the prophecies. He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.

>>1680146
If you don't worship Christ, you don't have the true faith. Simple as that.

>>1678327
If I recall he's probably refering to after the fall god saying human life spans will never go passed 120 years, yet throughout the rest of genesis many of the people who spoke with god died older than that. Moses was over 130 if I recall.

>>1680147
Yes, but if you accept the existence of definitions, whatever you happen to believe in will fit some criteria but not fit others.

For example, you could believe that Ra goes under the earth every night to fight chaos and be reborn, but if you were to call that belief "Chinese folk religion" you'd have a problem.

>>1680158
Everyone can believe in Christ.

>>1680160
That is also being said on both sides.

>>1680164
>Yahweh said, "My Spirit will not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; yet will his days be one hundred twenty years."

Maybe they were more than human because of their connection to divinity.

>>1680167
You could be any religion and love Yeshua, having Christianity as an essence.

>>1680248
>You could be any religion and love Yeshua, having Christianity as an essence.
That is an extremely different claim to >>1680061.

>>1680252
It is the same:
>You could be any religion and love Yeshua, having Christianity as an essence
>That is why Christ is outside the barrier of religious identity, because we are all united in the Spirit. Christ is not separate from other identities of faith, because they are the same.
>You can have any religion and still admit Yeshua is the Christ.

Basically, everyone is attracted to the love of God, and if you love God, you love the Christ, because of His devotion to the Father.

>>1680259
If someone doesn't believe in a god in the first place, how could they love one? Likewise, if, for example, someone were to love X person, it doesn'the necessarily follow they they must also love Y person who also does. In fact, such things are often the root of bitter conflict. Finally, this assumes that everyone holds the same definition of "the Christ" as you do, which from this very thread we can tell is not true.

>>1680259
But Christians believe Christ is God, that Christ both is the Father and is the Son of the Father. That's a fairly specific claim.

>>1680259
I'm done. You're a heretic. Be gone, demon.

>>1680266
Everyone is attracted to God in some way, even if they do not believe, there are laws of the universe and nature that are established throughout humanity and the world. The Christ is Yeshua, "Jesus", God in the manifestation of the Son of God, The Word, The Way, The Truth, The Life. God is manifest throughout everything.

>>1680273
That would make them Christian if they decided to identify with Christ through the Holy Spirit.

>>1680277
Anyone can love God.

>>1678163
He was talking about the pride of the pharisees. The point isn't "don't use the word father" it's "don't put men before God." Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East, Anglicans, and some Lutherans call their priests father because he has the role of a father-figure.

>>1681557
Everyone lords their opinions to these "fathers" rather than look within, they look for God in people outside of them, rather than within

>>1678163

What a shitty religion.

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Is it better to show reverence for real things or for fictional things?
Are the people in your life supposed to admire you when you show them that you care more about a fictional thing than them?

>>1681873
Your supposed to understand the information. It isn't asking you anywhere to look at fiction.

It is pointing out the fiction in the reality

>>1681838
t. Protestant

>>1682222
There is no Protestant or Gnostic, or Catholic, only Christians

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>>1681844
upboated, friendo ;^)

>>1682451
>only Christians
Define "Christians", then.

>>1679328
Nice lacking of arguments there, bro.

>>1682491
Anyone who believe in Christ and the teachings taught by Him. All Christians believe the same thing but are hindered by a false wall between them

>>1682543
>Anyone who believe in Christ and the teachings taught by Him. All Christians believe the same thing but are hindered by a false wall between them
If you are Christian, you know and accept that Christ is God made flesh. Both fully human and fully God, two Wills. You believe in the Trinity. Christians follow the Apostolic Succession, the Church set up by Christ, and Church Tradition. There is only one Church, the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Orthodox Church. No innovations of the Catholics, no subtractions like the Protestants and their iconoclasm. They are both heretical.
Stop confusing the less educated here on /his/.

>>1682629
You can be Christian without all of the church traditions. The church seperated the body of Christ and still continues to do this today . The Roman Catholic and Orthodox body's divide Christ.

The true Church is the human soul. Everything else is all based off of councils high none of those councils are God, or Christ.

>>1682687
There is no Church without Christ, nor without the Sacraments. This is why Protestants aren't a church, they abolished the Sacraments as set by Christ through the Apostles.
You are still extolling heresy.

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>>1678163
revelations 1:1
>The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

revelations 1:14
> His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

revelations 1:15
> And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.


if christ is a black man why did the white man make him white? because white people cant accept the black messiah

>>1678163
Guess I'm going to hell for calling my dad father then

>>1683239
Anyone can call someone a heretic it is called being intolerant. There is one church that is all of Christ's followers, if you divided the Body of Christ, the house of Christ, it does not stand. What we have now is not what Christ gave 2000 years ago. Everyone claims Him exclusively when no one can do this

>>1678455
It also forgets the inner part of the thighs, what the fuck

>>1683282
->>1678334

>>1683291
But that's stupid because Jesus would not say that, he wasn't autistic like american protestants.

>>1678163
>Catholics

>>1678163
>christcucks
I hope I live to see this shitty meme die

>>1683287
>There is one church that is all of Christ's followers, if you divided the Body of Christ, the house of Christ, it does not stand. What we have now is not what Christ gave 2000 years ago. Everyone claims Him exclusively when no one can do this

You keep talking generalities, while I speak specifics. Tell me, since you haven't yet, what is your Faith?

>>1683438
You still hand out the same general information too. "This is what my church believes" the same way. If you want specifics, you can give me all the documents of the church that came after Christ.

All it takes to be a Christian is to love God and the one God sent, Christ, His Son. It doesn't matter your religion.

>>1683467
I am Jesus, and I command you to stop being a cuck. Also, hang yourself.

>>1683472
It is so simple to believe in Christ God sent and God, the messages, and the deeper meanings of all of these natures.

>>1683475
You sound delusional and schizophrenic, seek help bruv

>>1683484
It is very hard to make judgments like that to people you never meet in person, especially over the internet, especially drawing these conclusions because of a disagreement in an argument.

>>1680248

God is probably referring to the people currently on earth; they have 120 years to repent before retribution (the Flood).

The Bible is quite mindful of chronology, in any event, as Noah's granddad Methuselah (whose name means "his death shall bring judgment") dies after Noah's dad--potentially in the year of the flood, though that's extra-biblical info.

>>1683467
>>1683475
You sound like a Gnostic.

>All it takes to be a Christian is to love God and the one God sent, Christ, His Son. It doesn't matter your religion.
Accepting Christ as God is inherent to Christianity, so it really does quite matter one's religion, as that defines it. Stop speaking nonsense.

>>1683667
All Christianity is the same, you follow Christ, if you don't follow Christ, that is your choice. But, if you have a Protestant, Gnostic, an Orthodox, and a Catholic, they all believe in the Teachings if Yeshua the Christ. If they all love Christ and God, they will put aside their minor differences. If they are caught in their ego and religious identity then they will argue and call eachother heretics.

>>1683681
>minor differences
Yes, Christ is Salvation. However, Christ instructed his Apostles to spread the Word to all the nations of the world, guided through the Holy Spirit to establish His Church. This sets up one of the Sacraments - Apostolic Succession. This one is carried out by the Orthodox Church, has been severed by the Roman Catholic Church via the Pope lusting for temporal power, and abolished totally by Protestants (save the Anglicans) who do not appoint Bishops, thus no Apostolic Succession. Now yet again, what is your Faith?

>>1683728
> Answer:The ability to trace one's church back to the “first church” throughapostolic successionis an argument used by a number of different churches to assert that their church is the “one true church.” The Roman Catholic Church makes this claim. The Greek Orthodox Church makes this claim. Some Protestant denominations make this claim. Some of the “Christian” cults make this claim. How do we know which church is correct? The biblical answer is – it does not matter!

http://www.gotquestions.org/original-church.html

The true Church is not a building or a denomination, it is the Holy Spirit in every person. Christ taught disciples and apostles, and the disciples and the apostles are equal.

Every church will claim supremacy but no church is the one true church, because Christ is the Messiah, teaching us God for ourself, for our own experience. Pharisee Judaism, is not far off from Modern day churches.

>>1683774
>Every church will claim supremacy but no church is the one true church, because Christ is the Messiah, teaching us God for ourself, for our own experience

So through Faith alone is what you're saying?

>>1683842
Faith, scripture, Christ, grace, and glory to God

>>1678331
And you know that why?

>>1683876
>>1683774

The Orthodox Church recognizes as a source of divine revelation of Truth not only Holy Scripture but also Holy Tradition which totally agrees with the Scriptures and is always recognized by the entire ancient Christian churches. The Orthodox Church recognizes the Ecumenical Councils as inviolable witnesses of this tradition, which were all assembled before the renovations of the Roman Church and the split of the latter from the Oriental (Orthodox), that is prior to the ninth century.

>>1683941
You nullify the word of God for the traditions of men

>>1683941
>Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church.

No where does it say in the Bible "this is my church the Catholic Chruch or the orthodox", we only see the teachings of the apostles and their church, their community. They debated with eachother ofyentimes, even debated with Christ Himself.

All the churches and councils of the churches come after Christ and the Bible, so your church could be good, but your religion is not as important as your action. God judges our heart, and does not need His Son seperated by the churches. All of the churches will not understand this, because they do not want to.

>>1683957
Agreed. It is all the traditions of men, though any church is good for a person. It doesn't matter, which church they go to or which bible version they read, their soul is seeking God. They don't need to go to a building of church, because the true church is the community around us

>>1683957
>>1683965
Christ is fully man and fully God, what say you of the Church and it's Tradition started by Him? Christ is the Word, the Logos.

>>1683980
>Christ is fully man and fully God
>Christ is the Word, the Logos.
Relevance?
>what say you of the Church
It is made up of all true believers in Christ
>and it's Tradition started by Him?
Recorded in the scriptures.

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>>1678163
>muh bible
lmao get a load of this proddy fuck

>>1683980
No where in this thread is there anything being said about Christ not being the Son of God and the Word. Christ Yeshua is the Son of God and the Word. We don't believe in a different Christ, at all, there is only one.

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Biblewanker loves his bible lol

>>1683965
>>1683957
Moreover, your revocation of the Holy Tradition is why Protestants have broken into thousands of different heresies. Part-time Evangelists, not living as Christ did, as the Apostles did, as the Holy Fathers did, are hardly qualified to make decisions on the level of the Ecumenical Councils, part of the "Tradition" you despise.

>>1683987
>>1683999
My point being that Christ is fully man and fully God, yet you do not care for "the Traditions of men".

>>1684005
>>1683965 and >>1683957 are different posters
>>>1683987 and >>1683999 two different posters.

>>1684005
>Protestants have broken into thousands of different heresies.
Why won't this meme die
>My point being that Christ is fully man and fully God, yet you do not care for "the Traditions of men".
What relevance is the Hypostatic Union?

>>1684005
>Holy Fathers

"Don't call anyone Father, except for God in Heaven" "make no one great among you"

It is weird, because Christians always bring up the Councils, but Christ is none of these Councils. They never show the scriptures where we see the "true church" because God sees a living soul in each person, not different members of a divided body.

>Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people and also members of his household,
>built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Iesus himself as the chief cornerstone

^^This is what the Apostles teach, very easy going, less radical than "my church is the only church" No one should be against any church because they all love the same God

If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

>>1684030
>No one should be against any church because they all love the same God
Catholics are heretics and their wicked church should be destroyed
Roma delenda est

>>1684042
"Love your enemies. Do good to those that hate you"

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>>1684042
>Catholics are heretics
"naw"
t. Jesus

>>1684016
>Why won't this meme die
Because it's not a meme? It's a fact. Some go so far as to deny the Divinity of Christ.

>>1684030
>"make no one great among you"
We don't, we venerate Saints as they have become so close to God's graces, as was shown by their unwavering Faith, devotion to the ascetic life, their miracles performed, and for many, their martyrdom for Christ. They were the most humble of men as a sinner can be, Read the Lives of the Saints and you'll see.

>They never show the scriptures where we see the "true church" because God sees a living soul in each person, not different members of a divided body.
Acts 15 details the Council of Jerusalem, setting the precedent of the later Councils. They, and the decisions reached, were found agreeable among them and by the Holy Spirit that graced each.

>>1684084
>We don't, we venerate Saints as they have become so close to God's graces, as was shown by their unwavering Faith, devotion to the ascetic life, their miracles performed, and for many, their martyrdom for Christ. They were the most humble of men as a sinner can be, Read the Lives of the Saints and you'll see.

No one attacked your belief in saints and venerating them.

>Acts 15 details the Council of Jerusalem, setting the precedent of the later Councils. They, and the decisions reached, were found agreeable among them and by the Holy Spirit that graced each.

The later couniles aren't the councils in acts

“Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Notice how in acts fifteen, there isn't a "true church doctrine", they are reverberating salvation for the non-jew, because God does not hate the jew and love the gentile, or love the gentile and hate the jew. God loves all beings and all are saved by Christ Yeshua.

>>1684084
>It's a fact.
It's a lie. Protestant isn't code for anything that isn't Catholic or Orthodox

>>1684108
>all are saved by Christ Yeshua.
This is heresy

>>1684179
Oh? A universal tenant is Sola Scriptura. Protestantism is indeed "code" for any Christianity that isn't Orthodox or Roman Catholic, but still proclaims to be Trinitarian.

>>1684180
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

>>1684189
Yes, notice the condition
>>1684187
Disregarding the fact you just contradicted yourself, Sola Scriptura is a principal exclusive to Protestantism, but one must adhere to the 5 Solae. Oneness Pentecostals, Seventhy-Day Adventists, Mormons and other cults are not Protestant.

>>1684201
>Yes, notice the condition
There are no conditions. All are saved. All of our souls are originated from God.

>>1684201
They are not Christian as they do not affirm Christ as God.

>>1684217
They don't have to. Christ is God, Christ is also God's Son. Everyone is allowed to have a different reasoning, this is life, people still appreciate Christ just as much as everyone else whether they believe He is God, or He is a prophet, or Christ is a teacher, etc etc etc

>>1684232
"no"
Where are you pulling this heresy from? Again, what is your Faith? I've asked you many times.

>>1684257
Heresy is made up by people who don't like understanding the opinions and ideas of others. No where does Christ in the Sermon say "persecute the heretics" instead He manages His knowledge to teach and heal those who are lost and sick. Where are the Christians who live by Christ's example? Christ does not say "worship me and only me guys" He says "Why call me good***, only God is good"

There is a mystery to the divinity of Christ, and all faiths have reason to believe whatever it is about Him that they do. Every Christian is a heretic to the radical Jew who believes that all Christians go to hell. Why worry about someone's opinion of you, being a "so-called" heretic. It is nonsense, and for the most part a lie.

>>1684212
>call upon the name of the Lord

>>1684269
You are a damned heretic and repent if you will be saved

>>1684764
That is not what Christ taught Christians.

>>1684761
>When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved? Iesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Man promises salvation through the joining of their specific religious group. All religious groups claim they alone hold the key to salvation, because of religious reform and their culture.

God saves us, not the church. God brings salvation to all faiths, in all religions. The Lord has many names. If it were true, that being an Orthodox was the only way, every religion would be way different, all with the consistent doctrine of "Orthodox", and everyone would be the same religion. God decided not to reveal Himself in this way, and decided to have a multitude of perspectives varying throughout all faiths.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worshipin spirit and in truth.”

>>1685099
>God brings salvation to all faiths, in all religions
This is so very unbiblical, you are so very lost.

>>1686861
God is outside of the Bible and in the human heart

>>1686972
I wouldn't want to answer for such blasphemy before God

>>1686979
God is with me always, God is with you always. God is with all, always.

>>1678455
>>1683290
Insufficient data. Further research is required.

But the conclusion is that you should all be in harmony; suffer with those who are suffering, love one another, be merciful and humble.

>>1679321
>orthodoxy -- gnostic
that escalated rather painfully.
/thread/ because most posters won't understand this dilemma without a gun to their head.

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Why do so many people hate Mary? You can go on Youtube and find protestants destroying what they think are statues of Mary. I never understood this.

>>1691442
They are statues of mary

>>1691442
Also destruction of idols is mandated by God

>>1691453

I was referring to this video where they destroy a statue of St. Therese thinking it's Mary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuljuu6uqqc

>>1691442
They think she is an idol, when to many Christians is a symbol for purity, femininity, motherhood, and overcoming adversary.

>>1691453
This would make all the crucifixes idolatry.

>>1691456
God lives in the present.

>>1691476
She must pray to Mary through the statue, because for many, worship without some image or idea is difficult, and many devotee who pick up this practice do not deviate far from their respected form of divinity.

>>1691614
Catholics =/= Christian
>worship without some image
So idolatry

>>1691753
Catholics still follow the teachings of Christ Yeshua. Therefore they are Christians. All Christians in this case would be "idolatrous" because they worship God through an image of the Saviour hung on a cross. It is natural for the brain to cultivate God through images, even the name of Allah is written down, and to see the name is an image.