>It says He created in 6 days but He really meant 4.5 billion

>>1664684
6000 years*

>>1664684
Who gives a fuck, only 4chan users follow these wacky desert cults seriously.

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>>1664894
If Jesus truly rose from the dead - then pic related should be answered.

Because Omnipotent God would exist, and alongside a desert religion story he would just resurrect Jesus to fond his own religion on earth or just to give humans a sign that He truly exists.

But again why would I assume that particular story of Jesus resurrection of Jesus was literal and the omnipotent God violated the laws of this universe without breaking it while there are many other such miraculous stories that have many followers and could be a little more plausible.

>>1665112
>if god were real he would be doing these things I think he would be doing.

Doesn't work like that, breh.

>finding inconsistencies in Christian dogma = denouncing a creator

Doesn't work like that either.

>>1664894

It's because early Christians made the mistake of taking fanfic about the life of Jesus as being canon, instead of understanding that Paul wasn't talking about some guy who lived someplace, but a god who lives in heaven and is accessible thru visions and introspection (ie, gnosticism). Everything falls into place once you realise the dates of the various books in the Bible does not bear on their order in the book, Paul's letters are the first and most authentic documents, the gospels are late fanfics.

This same trick works in Islam btw, the order of the suras in the Koran is not the order they were revealed in, but instead they are arranged in order of length. This explains many of the seemingly contradictory passages in the Koran, where narratives are abruptly ended or start in the middle and where conflicting accounts are given of rightful behaviour, once placed in their "correct" ordering these narratives join up and Mohammed's progress from "powerless street preacher who preaches tolerance and love" to "ruthless cult leader who preaches eternal war and intolerance" is laid bare.

>>1665228
The creator? What makes you think that the being I suggested also created the world?

Could as well just have been a passing omnipotent being at that time.

what is the catholic view on this?

>>1666431
That whore church will believe anything in an attempt to stay relevant

>>1664737
maybe reddit is more your speed then
>>1664894
can any christians refute this?

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>>1664684
>I refuse to learn and listen to history
>It didn't immediately make sense when i read it for the first time in 6th grade so it must be bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htxOjJHB5-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsbVAVSssc

>>1666460
>can any christians refute this?
He is taking poetry as literal history and then he is surprised when it doesn't make sense see >>1666474
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htxOjJHB5-8 [Embed]

>>1666431
see >>1666474 as well

How do Proddies deal with it?
Don't non-literal interpretations contravene infallibility?

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>>1666503
>write poetry meant to be taken poetically
>poetic poetry is taken poetically for almost 5000 years
>some faggot American protestants say "lets take it literally for no fucking reason"
>they say this very fucking loudly
>now every faggot atheist things that that's the only way believers have read it for thew whole time

Why the fuck do I have to take it literally?
>>Claim the bible is the infallible word of God
>>You're not supposed to take it literally!
what a fucking non sequitur
what the ever loving fuck does bible being the infallible word of God have to do with talking anything literally or not literally?

Here's a quote from a book written in the 300s saying people who take it literally are faggots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLmqKUQGk3k

>>1666511
>Genesis isn't the most beautiful poetic work of art ever written
get the fuck out of my face faggot

>>1666519
maybe you could be more specific as to why

>>1666521
I fail to see it's classification as poetry as a disqualification

could you explain why it's a disqualification

I don't think i am understanding you

you seem to me to be saying It's poetry therefore it can't be followed

that doesn't make sense to me tbqh senpai

Why are these snarky comments on the legitimacy of dogma never directed at Islam?

>>1666530
Atheists fear getting shot

>>1666530
Islam actually allows for old earth creationism, some also believe in evolution.
though they have their own ken ham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar

>>1666544
If Islam "allows" for old earth creationism then so do Judaism and Christianity seeing as how Genesis is the creation narrative for all of them.

>>1666558
many jews and christians do
it's a matter of literalism

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>>1666552
I am quite stupid
please explain it to me

Fun fact: There are major holes in the evolution theory, (like ants) that scientists refuse to acknowledge

>>1666580
oy vey

>>1666580
It's descended from Judaism, what do you expect?

>>1666582
ken ham pls

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>>1666548
>He didn't really refute those who claim that interpreting the bible metaphorically is a defensive and retreating (yea defeated) position in the face of modern science.
His position is that the Catholic faith has never taugh that the the bible must be interpreted literally.
Therefore if we maintain this position, we are not retreating, as we have not changed
I agree with you, wholeheartedly that is a defeated position and i admonish Christians that hold it

>I know for a fact that those theologians that thought that the bible could be intepreted symbolically didn't believe that the Genesis story wasn't also literally true. They thought that the symbolical intepretation was another, complementary way of reading it, but that didn't mean the Genesis story wasn't also literally true.
The second video
very clearly answered this

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsbVAVSssc [Remove]
Start that video at 2:16
he reads Genesis as the theologians before him did going back to the 2nd and 3rd centuries

>In fact I challenge any damage control apologists to show one church father that said that ONLY the symbolic interpretation of Genesis is the correct one. No Christian before the modern era thought that the bible was just DUDE METAPHOR LMAO!
Absolute horse shit
the ABSOLUTE Biblical literalism did not exist before the 19th century

Saint Augustine of Hippo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo
lived in the early 400s denounced literalism as you describe it and he was not the first

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XfpZcv4rOE

DID THE CHURCH EVER DENOUNCE LITERALISM
no and they never will
it is not their job to denounce things like this
people are allowed to have their own opinions
YOU MISUNDERSTAND THE ROLE OF THE CHURCH
if one man has an opinion that is that man's business as long as it doesn't directly contradict core Catholic teaching

You expect the church to dictate every minute detail of our faith
that is not it's job

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>>1666548
if you would indulge me a moment more

i beg you to watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po0ZMfkSNxc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjjDDhE8R5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyyySnUqCug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eEmnhmAwPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl1xmkVOyRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDTBW8oxug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPHIS3n7Lw

if not now then later

just give the first video 5 minutes of your time

if you aren't interested then shut it off

I think he will help you understand my greater position of science and religion not being incompatible

>>1666674
didn't luther and calvin believe in a young earth?

>>1666674
>Augustine

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2el0uz/how_accurate_is_the_statement_christian/ck0lzqx

>>1666734
An interesting 2 year old conversation to be sure

But a convincing closer it is not

There are points on both sides and I am not sure what you are directing me to in this very long Reddit thread

I agree with the Christians in that thread

Augustine supports my position

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>>1666727
I don't much give a damn about what Luther thinks, much less Calvin.

But I can't say I've heard of either one saying anything about creationism as we are discussing it here

>>1666801
>Augustine believes in everything modern YECs do
>he supports my position

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>>1664684
Watch this if you actually want to learn how scholars reconcile the contradictions and outright myths in the bible rather than argue with The fucking retarded Christians this board houses

https://youtu.be/ANUD8IK12ms
It's a Yale Course on the bible and it covers pretty much the whole bible

>>1666544
But Christians don't?
Fuck outa here

>>1666828
But he doesn't
So he does

>>1666871
But he does

https://answersingenesis.org/days-of-creation/augustine-on-the-days-of-creation/

>>1666851
>rather than argue with The fucking retarded

Nice projecting

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>>1664684
>4.5 billion years

If you are going to try and use science as an argument then don't use outdated science to do so. It just makes you look even more like a retard.

>>1664894
>According to the bible death entered the world through original sin.

By "death" it's obviously referring to the occurrence of the immortal soul leaving the physical body. So no there is no contradiction at all since lower life forms (like you) have no soul.

>>1665112
>pic related should be answered.

Pic related is retarded because it has the relationship completely backwards. It's your typical narcissistic retarded drivel is all. "Whaaaa why am I not special when I KNOW I am special whaaaa!"

>>1665314
Learn the definition of omnipotent and then come back moron.

>>1666907
>nice projecting
I have browsed the thread much
I assume there are probably a couple Constantine characters shitposting their stupid meme theology

>>1666961
>I have
*i haven't

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>>1666949
>lower life forms

>>1665112
If God made it obvious he existed there wouldn't be anything special about believing in him, just like there isn't anything special about believing in the sun existing because you can see it.

It intentionally requires a leap of faith on your part to believe in God.

>>1667079
>there wouldn't be anything special about believing in him
Why is that a reason?
Isn't knowing Gods love more important?

>>1665112
Can pic related really be answered though without just outright mind control?

For someone who is religious there is probably just no evidence that can convince them, provided that god(s) deviates from their specific interpretation of their specific religion since there is probably some way of denying any evidence, be it a deceiving rival or what have you.
Even for an atheist the evidence would have to be taken on faith that it hasn't been fabricated entirely since a being approaching the power of some gods would have that ability.

Even if god(s) (assuming an arbitrary creator god(s) definition) revealed themselves to humanity the matter of whether they're really god(s) would still be a matter of opinion just as it is now, provided that opinion can still exist.

>>1667079
Does the leap of faith remain special if it's a routine for a lot of bullshit to request a leap of faith on the part of the believer?

>>1667132
I personally would say it isnt, no. If God's love was obvious and immediate you wouldn't really be exercising your free will in accepting it.

The classic Kierkegaardian analogy is this - If a young prince falls in love with a simple peasant girl, he could very easily simply force her into a marriage with him through his authority.

But surely it is an infintely more real love for him to win her love for him without dazzling her with his glory or power, but for him to renounce his kingship and win her on an equal level, for her to choose him out of love and not out of coercion or awe for his majesty.

>>1667136
I would agree with you and say no it wouldn't be. The leap of faith cannot be part of a routine or forced as dogma upon people - it should be a personal journey where a person confronts their own doubts and chooses to believe independently.

I used to be an atheist myself so I can certainly see where you are coming from, and I can also understand why you might not find my argument very convincing. I know I wouldn't have if someone said it to me

There's no fucking reason to be atheist in 2016
It's like being a pessimist, bravo for you moron

>>1666882
>answersingenesis
See
>>1666674

>>1668172
>Unbelievers are also deceived by false documents which ascribe to history many thousand years, although we can calculate from Sacred Scripture that not 6,000 years have passed since the creation of man.

What did he mean by this?

>>1668194
>muh Christ cucks
Meanwhile the driving force behind accepting mass immigration is godless atheist cucks like you.

>nuh-uh I'm a special snowflake atheist that isn't a leftist and those leftist atheist cucks don't represent me but those Christ cucks totally represent you !

inb4 you claim to be a pagan

>>1668209
Who's the one kissing their feet again?

>>1668228
Who's the one voting socialists again?

>>1668209
No no no christcookie why are you being so mean to Ahmed and his eighteen male military aged brothers? Remember there's neither Greek nor Jew! What would Joseph the cuck do?

Remember St. Joseph, patron saint of cucks, in this difficult time! Cuckoldry is the Christian thing to do!

>>1668177
>be God
>the one and unique
>omniscient
>omnipotent
>almighty
>hide Dino bones in sand
>mfw humanity is fooled by my trick
>they actually believe earth is not flat and billions years old
>hopefully a few number of americans sects born after an heresy in the 16th century are not fooled.
>they are the bestest christians now
>grant them 10 good boy points

>>1668239
Check your privilege shitlord, science tells us that race is a social construct. I mean come on it's 2016!

>>1668177
Once again you misunderstand me

>[The advantage of Catholics] lies in the simple fact that they do not have to decide either for Evolution or against it. Authority has not spoken on the subject; hence it puts no burden upon conscience, and may be discussed realistically and without prejudice. A certain wariness, of course, is necessary. I say that authority has not spoken; it may, however, speak tomorrow, and so the prudent man remembers his step. But in the meanwhile there is nothing to prevent him examining all available facts, and even offering arguments in support of them or against them—so long as those arguments are not presented as dogma.[24]
Henry Louis Mencken

The Catholic Church has not taught literalism as fact

They leave this up to the mans own personal opinion

>>1667229
Ayyy, you read Kierkegaard? I was an atheist too until I read him

>>1664684
Here's a nice short story by Asimov, "How it Happened":

My brother began to dictate in his best oratorical style, the one which has the tribes hanging on his words.

"In the beginning," he said, "exactly fifteen point two billion years ago, there was a big bang and the Universe--"

But I had stopped writing. "Fifteen billion years ago?" I said incredulously.

"Absolutely," he said. "I'm inspired."

"I don't question your inspiration," I said. (I had better not. He's three years younger than I am, but I don't try questioning his inspiration. Neither does anyone else or there's hell to pay.) "But are you going to tell the story of the Creation over a period of fifteen billion years?"

"I have to," said my brother. "That's how long it took. I have it all in here," he tapped his forehead, "and it's on the very highest authority."

By now I had put down my stylus. "Do you know the price of papyrus?" I said.

"What?" (He may be inspired but I frequently noticed that the inspiration didn't include such sordid matters as the price of papyrus.)

1/2

>>1668705
2/2

I said, "Suppose you describe one million years of events to each roll of papyrus. That means you'll have to fill fifteen thousand rolls. You'll have to talk long enough to fill them and you know that you begin to stammer after a while. I'll have to write enough to fill them and my fingers will fall off. And even if we can afford all that papyrus and you have the voice and I have the strength, who's going to copy it? We've got to have a guarantee of a hundred copies before we can publish and without that where will we get royalties from?"

My brother thought awhile. He said, "You think I ought to cut it down?"

"Way down," I said, "if you expect to reach the public."

"How about a hundred years?" he said.

"How about six days?" I said.

He said horrified, "You can't squeeze Creation into six days."

I said, "This is all the papyrus I have. What do you think?"

"Oh, well," he said, and began to dictate again, "In the beginning-- Does it have to be six days, Aaron?"

I said, firmly, "Six days, Moses."

>>1668285
Not believing the bible is true is hardly a selling point for a religion supposedly based on what the bible says.

>>1664684

The evolutionists have told you that the earth is billions of years old in order for your eyes to glaze over and your idiotic mind to believe that anything could happen in that much time.

God could have created everything in an instant.

He is God.

>>1668285
>Authority has not spoken on the subject

See how the bible is not an authority to Catholics?

>>1665112

Exactly the opposite is true. God has balanced the evidence against your ability to reject the evidence so that you can freely choose Him or reject Him.

>>1668247
He took Mary most vigorously after Jesus was born, and sired many sons and daughters, and is now in heaven with all of them.

He's fine.

Worry about yourself.

>>1668737

Worry about your Æutism instead

If god gave these stories to us then he would have had to give them in a way that the people of the time would understand.

>>1668757
You really have a hard-on for that dude.

Again not me.

>>1668772
Exactly. And had He taken billions of years and developed life from unicell sea creatures, He could have told that to Moses.

He didn't, so He didn't.

>>1668776

Wait, what dude?

>>1664684
>It says OP is a faggot in this thread but he really meant all threads
>OP created through faggotry, Sucking cock is just a phase bro! :^)

What are the implications of this? How can 4chan postology adopt this and accomodate the OP and his Incredible Faggotry?

>>1668780
The papist who calls himself an alien.

>>1668782
Well, for a reminder, we can post in every thread that OP is a faggot. That way, we can remember.

>>1668790

What, what are you talking about? I just misspelled autism, and didn't feel like deleting my post. What is this shit about aliens?

>>1668815
Never go full retard dude.

>>1668833

?

I'm genuinely lost at what you're talking about. Are you going to explain what this alien shit was all about, or were you having some autistic fit?

It depends on your view of the Bible. The Bible mentioned that 1,000 years is a like a day to God.It is possible that 6 days for God =6,000 human years. Then again, I'm not a theologian or scientist.

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>>1668844

SILENCE YOU FOOL

It is I, Ælian, the Pope of Autism. I will not stand for this normiefaggotry. I bet you don't even use w/pol/isms like 'nu-male', 'cuck' and 'degeneracy' in real life, only to receive the defeating pain of a thousand cringes, right? That's the type of PRODDIE shit that JESU, ÆUTISTA ÆTERNA (credo in Æutismus Deo) die for on the cross. I bet you don't even pray to Mary the Eternal Fertility Goddess, do you?

Pssh...Deus Vult...kid

Now, here's some quotes that WILL MAKE NEUROTYPICAL HEATHEN PRODDIES CRY LIKE BABIES

>"Proddies are all going to hell" - Æcts of Æutism, Book 4, chapter 5, verse 5, mumbling to myself 5

>"And on that day, the LORD saith: You, Æutismus the Great (that's ME for all your PRODDIES) will defend the Catholic Church, the only TRUE CHURCH and all the others ones are LIARS EPECIALLY YOU LUTHER REEEEEEEEE OH LUTHER YOU FAGGOT YOUR MAKING ME HAVE AN AUTISTIC FIT AGAIN REEEEEEEE" - Æutisticclesiastes book 7, verse 6, awkwardly staring at you 6

>"And that rock is Peter, and on that rock, you will build my church, which is the Catholic Chruch, and definitely not the ProtestANT OH GOD HERE I GO AGAIN REEEEEEEE REEEEEEEE CALVIN REEEEEEEEE ANOTHER AUTFIT REEEEEE REEEEEE PRODDIES REEEEEEEEE" - Psalm 5, book 7, verse 7, I have no friends and only post here on /his/ to cover up for the fact that the last time I talked to anyone was 4 years ago 9

THERE, THAT OUGHT TO TEACH YOU A LESSON, PRODDIE SCUM.

You're forgetting, it's only metaphor. Until it's not.

Check out the most recent and accurate interpretation of religion to date. Search truth contest and read the top entry called present with religion

>>1664684
fuck man I had to take 3 semesters of theology
all the textbooks basically say "this is bullshit and not really rigorous and it's all based on shit that people made up"
mostly it's about the history of the church and letters and deals with philosophy and argumentation but when you get down to it it's just outdated shit

>>1668723
I do believe the bible is true

I just don't have autism so I can understand metaphors and symbolic speech

:^)

>>1668730
The bible is an authority

And I thank God I have the church as well because if every Christian read the bible you think Christians read the bible it would be a very sad world

>>1664894

The death obviously happened before the Fall, as shown by paleontology. The "death" Genesis is speaking about is spiritual death, which subject is expanded on in the gospels.

>>1668778
Explain to me how you would explain this to a Bronze Age man so that he could then go and tell his tribe

>>1668996
Praise kek and his prophet Ælian the Æutist

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>talking to some Prod on Whatsgoodly
>he says the creation story was written metaphorically for stone-age people to understand the evolutionary process on their own terms. First the universe was created, then our solar system, then water and land, then plants, then sea animals, then land animals, and finally people; reflecting on humanity's relatively recent origins in evolutionary history
>ask him about the second creation story, where humans are created first
>"I've never actually heard of that one, I don't think it's in Genesis"

>>1669082
Everything changes over time. The animals were once different and now they're as we see them.

Real hard.

>>1666548

Consider that early Christians didn't have access to modern evidence for evolution and age of Earth.

I don't see why theology must be antagonistic to science (and using it to clarify the Bible must be thought of as a bad thing), while other parts of philosophy can freely adapt to it.

Care to explain why using empirical evidence of how the world works to help with interpretating faith is wrong?

>>1669120
Because that is confirmation bias,

>>1669107
Why would God tell it? The purpose of Genesis 1 is first and foremost, showing that God created the world, that everything is subordinate to him (and not a bunch of pagan nature gods), that the Creation is very good (not evil, like the gnostics claimed). Bible is supposed to tell you about religion, not scurnce, that's not its purpose.

>>1668996
Ælian was Catholic? For some reason I thought he was a fundamentalist protestant

>>1668709
noice

>>1665112
Being imbued with the Soul made us perfect and immortal. Sin took Immortality from our nature by corrupting the bond of body and soul.

>>1668194
It's called wit you cunt.

>>1666521
Compare exigesis on it to exigesis on other Mesopotamian creation myths that have the world being born out of violent struggle between a deity and some mighty chaos or whatever vs Genesis having God just speak everything into existance.

>>1666548
>Galileo
So a jackass who was told "keep studying it while we figure out how to readjust our theological cosmology" and said "fuck you I wanna start telling everyone" and basically called his boss a faggot for wanting to not rush things was the victim right?

Tentai shiritai hoshi ippai

>>1669136
And that's a faggot response.

>>1666699
>quads followed by dubs
>links to rekt atheist rhetoric

Wew lad.

>>1666530
Because there wouldn't be any debate, owing to the lack of Muslims on this board

>>1664684
People see evidence that contradicts their cultural belief system, but they both don't want to abandon their "culture" nor do they want to admit to themselves they wasted all this time and energy believing in something false. Thus they try to compromise with stuff like "it's metaphorical".

>>1666460
4chan is overwhelmingly atheist agnostic, fuck, polls show that /his/ of all places has more atheists than Christs. And most of the ones that are here are post 2012 newfags

>>1666431
Most common Catholic explanation is that at some point hominids evolved to the point that they became humans with a rational intellect that could experience god. The first beings to reach this point would have been "Adam and Eve", and the Fall occurs immediately at the point in time Adam and Eve become aware of world.

>>1672251
Nothings contradicted it to the point that "it's false for nothing", what happens it's dates may not exactly line up, or something like 6 days equals a longer time, much longer time.

>>1666882
He didn't have modern science so he had no reason not to believe YEC, it was the most reasonable explanation in his time. But if he were to apply his method of reading scripture with knowledge of modern science, he wouldn't be YEC.

>>1666582
>Not understanding evolutionary biology

Why do idiots always think they somehow magically know more than somebody who excelled for more than a decade in school for a phd?

God designed these bacteria so that they could evolve, what a genius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbVHaTbswaw

>people on an academic history board are treating the bible as something other than a cultural myth

>>1672701
They're too incompetent to realize just how incompetent they are, and because they never realize that they're incompetent, they don't attempt to improve themselves, which would be necessary to realize how incompetent they are.

>>1673989
Dunning Krueger effect?

>>1672282
That's because most of the people on 4chan live lonely depressing lives where nothing goes their way, so they blame God, and spend their lives trying to debunk him on forums and what not instead of actually doing something to improve their lives.

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>>1673972

>academic history
>board

BAKA

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>He uses days in relation to the sun
>which god created on the 4th day

>>1667320
not it's bring reasonable and smart.

no prove for your cult
You still believe

oh shit you dumb?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcqfiOFuazc

Still open to interpretation

>>1673972
Blasphemy.

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>>1664684
>Meanwhile in Egypt

>>1676245
Go back to Sharia, Taliban man.

>>1667218
The reason that analogy fails is that theologically speaking, God's love is necessary for humans, as much as the air we breath. To not let us fully understand the implications of turning it down would be like giving a young child a trash bag and telling him to figure out not to put his head in it

>>1675777
>That's because most of the people on 4chan live lonely depressing lives where nothing goes their way, so they blame God

That would be right if God existed

Also the same argument could be made for Christians who often are religious to try and find a meaning in their pitiful unfulfilling lives and so believe in a better after life because their actual lives suck.

It can't.
/Thread