It's time to settle this once and forever. Why excatly

>>1627994
It's very manipulative and relies on deceit to get anything done.

Still better than authroitarian regimes where brutality is the name of the game.

liberal democracy is the most successful form of government in human history

Because people don't care about complicated things and just want to live their life. Instead of being active citizens, voters look for a man/party to blindly follow.

Because liberty lead to autodestruction.

Because you get more chances to get elected if you say nice thing and this won't stop the million of foreigners to come in and become citizens.

It becomes what it is now, which is a propaganda festival.

If you want it to work, you have to give the right to it to people, who can see past the advertising.

>>1628000
>Still better than authroitarian regimes where brutality is the name of the game.
When you had only a few years or decades of real democracy, yes. When you have more than half a century of it, your country start to be shitty again. I can't think of any country that survived more than a century of a real democracy. Masked corporatism and masked aristocracies are not democracies.

>>1627994
Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Democracy is 51% of the people voting themselves money out of the treasury, into which they put nothing.

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>>1628002

>Implying democracy isn't just mob rule catering to uninformed and uneducated masses with emotional campaigning and mudslinging

A line of good/great kings is the most successful form of government in human history. Of course, this doesn't happen too often but good kings and dictators get the job done.

Because fedoras think reality is a game where prosperty comes from great rulers that tend to not be elected in democracies and not from the people of a country being able to make a country great through the freedoms of democracy.

>>1628026
>A line of good/great kings is the most successful form of government in human history.

Too bad that has never happened ever.

>>1628060
> Who is Habsburgs

>>1628026
Define successful? Democracy put us in space and has been a major component of the single most peaceful and prosperous era of human history to ever exist.

>>1628070

kek, you think all the haps were good?

What the fuck does it mean if something works or not. Democracy in one way or another is basically the only way to justify a state that don't involve opening yourself for letting you and your friends getting killed by hurr durr might is right.

>>1628071

One might argue that it wasn't so much democracy but the shared culture and values. In that case, "Diversity" will be the death of that democracy

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Republican Democracy is the greatest hope for local representation without mob rule, accountability without moving at a snails pace, efficiency without monopoly, that this world has ever presented.

A great deal of systems of governance CAN be successful, but for the scale of the modern nation-state and for the potential that any great King's son could be a tyrant, it is widely considered the "Best, worst solution" or in other terms, the system of government that provides the greatest incentive to properly represent people's interests while containing the framework to limit what elected tyrants can accomplish.

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>>1627994
>Why excatly [sic] democracy doesn't work?
What democracy?
There are no democracies.

Even the United States of America is a "Federal Presidential Republic" (CIA World Factbook)
Even the Presidential Election isn't democratic.
Just ask Cleveland (the election between his 2 terms)
and Al Gore (1980).
Democracy only rarely exists at the most local levels and even then, the populous rarely gets to vote on many of the laws.

>>1628118
>Al Gore (1980).

What?

>>1628097
>shared culture and values

lol when? America has been a hodgepodge from the beginning.

Because it lets retards decide shit.

>>1627994
Because people are too emotional and vote for feels over logic.

>>1628018
>can't think of any country that survived more than a century of a real democracy.
> real democracy

No true Scotsman I guess

Have you ever stopped to think for a second that maybe your personnal opinion on what constitutes things being true isn't actually worth that much?

>>1627994
Democratie work, the soviet fail, the chinese are more corrupt than the most corrupt democracy.
Edgy fedora can't understand that our democracy are the processus of tousand year of political developpement, they're literally the most advanced political regime know to human, see the difference between the ancient goverment and ours, Constitution(or kind of) check and balance, power division. They don't come from nothing, they're reaction to their predecessor, in the same way that technologie evolve to more efficienty our political regime evolve to a better thing. But fedora retard can't into the fact that great rulers are mere puppet of fate also democracy work better in the west than any other system for now.

>>1628149
This esl reject gets it, why the fuck don't the fedoras get it?

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>>1628060

The Romans had a century of good emperors.

The trick is just not to make it hereditary like this silly cunt.

>>1628158
And then they had several centuries with multiple civil wars

I think Churchill was pretty on point with his "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" statement.

Democracy doesn't work, but that doesn't mean it isn't the best we have. Governing large human societies is a messy business.

That said I'd be in favor of some sort of meritocratic (non-hereditary) aristocracy, but coming up with an actually good way to put it into practice is beyond me.

>>1628156
Because they live in a democracy and haven't gotten laid yet. Therefore something clearly must be wrong with society.

>>1628163

I'm just saying that there have been lines of good/great monarchs, not that monarchy isn't flawed.

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>>1627994
It inevitably slides into being mob rule or oligarchic, neither of which are "democratic" by most people's measure. The people might still vote, and their elections might not be tampered with, but the candidates are almost exclusively drawn from the same pool of political elites with mostly the same agenda and with campaigns financed by the same business interests.

Democracy does not make a nation great, good governance does. Enlightenment thinkers understandably believed that a republic would ensure good governance, because the people would logically vote for the best leaders. What they neglected to address was that voters tend to vote for what they like or don't like, which in many cases may not correlate to what's a good or bad idea, and democratic elections have adapted to this reality - personal lives of politicians are highly sensationalized, regardless of how much that affects their ability to govern.

Democracy also fails for the same reason unrestricted capitalism tends to. In ideal circumstances, both depend on the masses being informed by a diligent and unbiased media of the merits and drawbacks of politicians/products, and making intelligent decisions so the electorate/invisible hand of the market rewards good practices and deeds and punishes the wicked. The media is the crucial link in this system, but requires funding to do its job. Privatized media thus focuses on whatever will hold the interest of the most consumers so it earns the most capital, and state-funded media tends to tow the government line for fear of losing funding (and their jobs), even in countries as benignly liberal as Canada.

And, of course, this all depends on the electorate actually caring, which in many cases it simply doesn't. To use the Canadian example again, the CBC actively reports on many government activities, but to those uninterested in the machinery of government and the political process, this is dry reading. (continued.)

>>1628172
Whenever stating the virtues of monarchy you are obliged by decency and morality to mention its shortcomings. Lest fools linger on its merits and not explore its faults.

>>1628178
>It inevitably slides
No it fucking doesn't

>>1628178
(continued.)
Even the educated may not be deeply interested in politics, and why should they? No matter who they vote for or how often they don't vote, the state rumbles on, social services keep functioning, and the difference between ruling parties needs to be specifically outlined to be noticed or even felt. It can be argued that this is fine and those that don't vote deserve the government the others pick for them, but "by the people and for the people" carries far more weight than "by 68% of the people, for 68% of the people."

tl;dr democracy fails because it isn't democratic. inb4 you call me a marxist of any kind, I'm not, I'm just deeply cynical and hate all the retards on here who think democracy isn't on the same level as a lot of other systems.

>>1628183

Anon, did you see who I was replying to? He made a statement that I desired to invalidate with an example. Unless he was trying to say "an unbroken line from start to finish." IE Rome's entire imperial history, which is obviously a tall ask and you could say democracies don't have a good track record either.

Besides, lot of Rome's monarchical problems were due to a lack of stable successions. The five good emperors did well because each successive good emperor selected a competent heir and made it clear they were succeeding. Things go to shit when
A) You say "My son's my heir, deal w/ it" which basically leaves governance to the whims of genetic lottery. Thanks Marcus.
B) You don't make it clear who your heir is and don't let them hit the ground running by integrating them into governance before you die. Then everyone fights.

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>>1628184
>the US isn't an oligarchy, we have elections!

>>1628204

No, it's a plutocracy.

>>1628071

Technology can grow under dictatorships and monarchies too. We could've had a "royal space program" or something; you give too much credit to democracy.

>>1628100
What is this meme called? Looking for template and explanation.

>>1628215

All plutocracy is oligarchy, not all oligarchy is plutocracy. Rule by the wealthy suggests rule by those wealthy enough for their wishes to matter than everyone else. That's "the 1%" style wealthy, not middle class style wealthy.

>>1628203
C.) The emperors son is ambitious and capable, holding the loyalty of large parts of the army and doesn't give a damn who his father named as successor.

D.) One of the generals thinks he's hot shit and thinks the line of succession being open to choice is enough of an opening for him to declare himself emperor. Afterall, the plebs like him more than the picked heir.

Aristocratic autocratic systems are prone to civil wars, it's the main reason they suck.

>>1628227

So, like I said. Plutocracy.

>>1628171
Want to guess how I know you're a woman?

>>1628250

Which is just a form of oligarchy. When someone goes "I had a meal." you don't go "No you're wrong you had spaghetti."

>>1628260

Which is just a form of government. Why don't we just say "government"?

>>1628268

Why not just provide the name of every rich man influencing government?
You're splitting hairs, we know what someone means when they're talking oligarchy in the US.

>>1628260
You're likely talking to a pedantic retard that agrees with you on a basic level but still wants to get the final word. Stop responding to him. The rest of us agree with you.

>>1627994
Well, we can't have advanced, stable and prosperus nations all over the planet now, can we?

>>1627994
Because democracy is the illusion of control. There is not a single democratic system on the planet today that arent continually gamed by special interests, banks and business. So instead of knowing who your rulers are you are presented with a puppet. Instead of being let in on what your ruler is going to do, you are being lied to; because your "ruler" doesnt represent /you/, and his implements doesnt serve /you/; it serves whomever has the most power hovering in the background.

The lies and lies and damn lies that exist in a democracy -- makes people ill.

Sexist, racist, ageist -- all things which it is /sane/ to be, but they want the populace to be one homegenic mass which they can easily manipulate and the populace is accordingly manipulated into thinking these are "bad things".

Everyone suffers.

Atleast, with a king it is more honest.

>>1628383
Try to not cut yourself with that edge son.

>>1628149
> the chinese are more corrupt than the most corrupt democracy
You mean more than poo in the loo?

First of all a monarch does not come from "noble stock", his family are simply warlords running a mafia protection racket who killed anyone who did not submit. Secondly the idea that an authoritarian system, whether absolute or oligarchical, is less corrupt than a modern democracy is simply laughable. an authoritarian system REQUIRES corruption in order to function. Let me put it like this, any authoritarian leader maintains his power through the loyalty of privileged groups. In the case of a feudal monarchy it's the landed aristocracy, in the case of a modern junta it's the military. In all cases the authoritarian must serve those groups needs instead of the nations. If he does not those groups withdraw their support and he is overthrown. This means that the state is specifically designed to cripple itself for the betterment of the autocrats supporters over the interests of the nation. Thus because the law is not meant to address their needs and is not allowed to be changed to do so, the population must turn to either corruption or revolution in order to survive, both of which harm the nation yet again.

>>1627994
Because average retards are allowed to vote. There should be test to make sure that people who know jackshit about politics wouldn't vote

>>1628383
> Atleast, with a king it is more honest.
Isn't King also can be a puppet of whoever hold the most power?

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>>1628129
You are correct.
Tired.
I, >>1628118, stand corrected.
Al Gore (2000)

And thank you for your support

>>1628410
Because truth is like in Disney, bright and colorful and everyone are friends.

>>1628118
>Federal
>Presidential
>Republic

>>1628383
>>1628593
>Everyone suffers.
You say that in the best time to be alive in recorded human history

>Because democracy is the illusion of control.
Freud say you also got an illusion of control on your mind, doesn't mind you can't got an influence on it.

>continually gamed by special interests, banks and business.
Yep and still ecolgy is more and more accepted. Tabac lobby loose, citizen can still act on gouverment.

>your "ruler" doesnt represent /you/, and his implements doesnt serve /you/; it serves whomever has the most power hovering in the background.
There no one in the background, no one rule alone anymore, modern society are so complex that you need vast amount of civil servant to even try to influence the world, history show that even the most absolute ruler have to compose with everyone, every act and law are massive compromise of clashing interest such is human politic, massive compromise because you can't rule alone.

>The lies and lies and damn lies that exist in a democracy -- makes people ill.
"Lies" are almost always simplification and meme politic, no one can understand a problem anymore, the world is to complex for one man to understant even one problem thing. The fact that we put ideological glass do not help.

>Sexist, racist, ageist -- all things which it is /sane/ to be, but they want the populace to be one homegenic mass which they can easily manipulate and the populace is accordingly manipulated into thinking these are "bad things".
Except that most project in that sence are but failure, you ride social trend but you never control it.

>Atleast, with a king it is more honest.
>He never heard of divine right.

The world isn't Disney but the trend is the world get better for human, the fact you want to see complot and shadow ruler to make sence in a complex world do not mean that everyhing is suffer.

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>democracy doesn't work
>real democracy doesn't work
excuse me?

>>1629167

The day the world realizes banking is a huge fraud and destroys it switzerland will devolve into nigger tier tribal countries. What else do you export but jewery?

>>1629189
top quality artifacts such as watches, cars, engineering machines
the products of medicine industry (actually our main market)
Baking stopped being a big thing in Switzerland in 2012 when we had to give up bank secrecy. Get on with the times fossil, we don't rely on banks anymore

>>1628034

Have you ever seen the average person of ANY country? They are not precious agents of economy and culture, they are justin beiber fans, kardashian twitter followers, reggaeton dancers, etc. 90% of the human species, of ANY race is scum.

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>>1628100

Legend of the Galactic Heroes is actually a great examination of the relative merits of a corrupt democracy vs. a benevolent dictatorship.

>>1629106
>You say that in the best time to be alive in recorded human history
That was such an amazing line that ill just ignore everything else you said and just focus on this little bit. I really have to commend you on this line, that was even more absolutist than i am.

However, i have to disagree, man: you see i really wish i lived in ancient athens man. You see, everything was so nice & beautiful there and the air was sooo clean, and everyone wore these beautiful dresses, women knew their place, men did too, and people actually cared about the deeper subjects and didn't go into cataplexy because someone mentioned words like values, and 'the good' and such. I mean, i don't much care about mobile phones; those things are mostly stress anyway, besides it's much nicer when people come and visit isnt it? Besides, the world was still unexplored, mystical and straight-forward which is always good.

AND! What about UN-recorded history man! What about that shit? That was some intense shit, we'd be dancing around the fireplace and shit, sweet mama! Don't tell me you know our quality of life were better than theirs because you have no effin' clue.

>>1627994
people are dumb and easily tricked on top of being prone to groupthink, democracy is the tyranny of idiots.

>>1628004
idiot

>>1627994
Even in a pure democracy not controlled by special interests, it is still mob rule. It is still 51% ruling over the 49. It is still giving rights to government officials that you never had in the first place. It is still coercion and authoritarianism. Ultimately it won't work because it turns people against each other and forces one side to always be the loser and the slave.

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>>1628060
>Too bad that has never happened ever.

Heard you talked shit

>>1627994
Not enough focus on civic education and civic duty. You need a well-informed and active electorate for a democracy to properly function. Otherwise they just elect whoever's the most charismatic corporate stooge.

>>1629167
>>1629193

Switzerland IS NOT a democracy.
It is a Federal Republic.

Have a blessed day

>>1631760
here's a minimalist definition of democracy by dahl
>free, fair, and competitive elections, but also the freedoms that make them truly meaningful (such as freedom of organization and freedom of expression), alternative sources of information, and institutions to ensure that government policies depend on the votes and preferences of citizens' (Dahl 1971).

switzerland is pretty democratic if you ask me.