>Watch movie about the old west >Native Americans are portrayed

watch Dead Man

>>1619347
It's honestly best to avoid any western movie that contains Indians, literally every single fucking film whitewashes them and spams the noble savage maymay all over the place.

>>1619350
>SJW hipster acid trip: the movie

Oh boy

>>1619380
>sjw hipster acid trip
You're buzzing like a beehive.

>>1619380
What movies have you been seeing because Natives were the go to bad guy for westerns for decades.

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Why do people fetishize natives so much?

>>1619396
Because that's what it is. It's probably the most pretentious leftist western ever made, complete with fucking Neil Young scoring it.

>>1619406
Pretty much everything past the mid 60s is full on Indian revisionism galore and everything before that is pure pulp. Really the best westerns are those that don't contain any Indians, like the Unforgiven or the Wild Bunch.

>>1619415
qt muscled tribal twinks don't make you happy?

>>1619415
Victorian era romanticism which embraced pagan revivalism, nostalgic mysticism and nature worship, which in the US manifested in thinking that Indians are a cool wise people in touch with nature rather than a bunch of genocidal stone age idiots.

>>1619432
>indians
>genocidal
anon...

>>1619432
They've been exterminating each other for literally centuries before the white man arrived and they started massacring the settlers right after whites landed. The only reason they haven't gone full industrial holocaust was their backwards technology.

>>1619470
Meant for >>1619462

>>1619470
Thats literally every race. But I tend to side with them cause They were the underdogs and were defending their lands.

>>1619470
For Pete's sake, stop generalizing, they differed enormously between tribes. You're as bad as the people who idealize natives.

>>1619422
>Thinking The Quick and The Dead isn't among the best westerns.

Also what the hell do you mean revisionism? Before that it was still Hollywood shit so there only real accuracy was probably the names.

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>>1619485
>massacring civilians = defense

Yeah right.

And no, native Americans from the Canadian plains to the damn Yucatan have been some of the most vicious, brutal and bloodthirsty people in human history. Literally comic book tier evil and this is still reflected today in countries like Honduras, Mexico and Guatemala that have the highest murder rates on planet Earth.

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best western comin thru, faggot contrarians notwithstanding

>>1619462
Even though whites have the higher body count natives were more sadistic in their killing.

>>1619510
Oh right like all of those people armed to the teeth at wounded knee, those women and children sure had it coming. I also bet those women who had their labias cut off and used as hat decorations also did something too.

>>1619519
is Crispin Glover still a weird mofo?

>>1619532
Literally the first contact with white settlers and Indians (Roanoke) ended up with the Indians massacring the settlers. Make no mistake, these people were out for blood from day one and it's actually good that they ended up in the dustbin of history.

>>1619530
I would say that is debatable since if we include anybody that could count as 'white' there were some sick as torture methods they had going down.

>>1619530

That is true.

Scalping was pretty savage

>>1619519
>le murky guitar music OST
>shot in black and white because reasons
>surrealism for the sake of it
>Divine Comedy references thrown around in a non subtle way to make the audience think the movie is smarter than it really is

Hipster shit / 10

>>1619538
>one group does bad shit
>condemns entire continents
>dustbin of history

So why do people like Columbus get a free pass on this shit since his literal first contact had him chopping off peoples hands when they couldn't find him enough gold? Furthermore the crops Natives cultivated for thousands of years had made a massive impact on our lives today, and finally Natives are still around so I don't see they are going to vanish anytime soon.

>>1619538
>try to take land
>at least show up unannounced
>get angry when natives get scared and instinctively show aggression
>wipe them off the face of the earth! It's there fault!

Fuck off.

>>1619551
Columbus has nothing to do with the United States or the Anglo colonists, meme harder.

And also

>free pass

You mean like this shit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr_eZSKTEQA

>>1619510
There were more public executions in England than there were human sacrifices in the Excan Tlahtoloyan in the 15th century. It's really not about bloodthirsty, that implies sadism. It was simply a balancing and influencing of teotl to order the world mixed with a show of power.

>>1619551
>since his literal first contact had him chopping off peoples hands when they couldn't find him enough gold
Except that's false you fucking faggot. Columbus' first contact was with two Indians in a log boat on a coast and they pretty much just stared at each other and floated past.

>>1619562
>a bunch of devout people set up a colony where they can work hard and worship God in peace
>a literal band of retard savages shows up and exterminates them down to the last child
>their leader literally laughs and boasts about that shit years later

Mind you this was the first contact between the Anglos and those shits.

>>1619545
Just so you know, Indians practiced scalping as a cultural trait.

Americans scalped Indians first, as a way to prove their bounties.

>>1619567
>executing criminals for crime is the same as sacrificing tens of thousands of innocents annually to some meme god because you believe it makes the sun rise

As a Nebraskan I can't be happier that the natives will die out in my lifetime, fuck those murderous savages.

>>1619575
And? You are literally building a wall to keep people out of your nation.

That's the 2016 PC alternative to simply killing them. You showed up on their land, you cannot just think they they would know what you are doing, why you are here and let you cme.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Of course they are going to get scared, of course they are going to throw the first strike, they are savages. You apparently were not, you did not show them you meant peace, at the first sign of aggression you upped the anti.

What you all did was a million times worse.

>>1619594
>And? You are literally building a wall to keep people out of your nation.


Boohoo faggot. Get proper papers or fuck off.

>>1619538
They intermarried with regional natives for the most part. The notion that they were wholesale massacred is a very, very old East Coast story to fighten kids with tales of Indian savagery.

>>1619581
They weren't all innocent. It was considered an honour to begin with. The majority were prisoners of war who would have otherwise died in battle.

>>1619607
They didn't intermarry with anyone, there's literally zero evidence for that. And that "frightening story" comes from the mouth of chief Powhatan himself.

>>1619615
>it's considered honorable to get your heart ripped out in front of thousands of cheering people so some fucktard can skin you and dance around wearing your skin while tripping balls on mescaline

And you're wondering why people call them savage

>>1619575

>settle on people's land whilst you have no right to do so
>they remove you
>h-how could they!?

They were right. It was their land, fuck off.

>>1619619
Idk about intermarriage but in the early colonial days ppl were fleeing the authoritarian colonies to live with the Indians who had a more free society.

>>1619564
Oh so he doesn't count as white when it isn't convenient. Furthermore I was talking free pass in terms of who started killing the other side first and you just ignored that fact.

>>1619572
Alright my mistake, but he did go on and do that to some other people later on.

>>1619619
>literally zero evidence

Testimony from multiple tribal groups over the course of a couple hundred years, the records of French Huguenots coming into contact with European-featured natives proximal to where the colony originally was, the Croatans and Saponi groups, the former of which when visited by anthropologists in the late 19th century was in use of a dialect of antiquated British English in some of their language.

>>1619591
The population is actually growing.

>>1619629
Lol cheering? This wasn't a satanic prehistoric rave party. I think you are letting Apocalypto memes get to you.

>>1619347
>grr I hate historical falsehoods to fit an agenda
>proceed to depict Native Americans as just stupid raiders to fit personal agenda

Way to be a hypocrite OP.

>>1619470
You're a fucking moron.

White settlers were treated the same as most tribes in the region. Times of peace and times of war, usually when whites infringed on tribal hunting lands or outright raided their stored food supplies.

>>1619510
>manipulating statistics so that 60 dead equals Muh Gorillian Innocent White Folk massacred

Jesus Christ, you're a fucking tool.

>>1619519
That would be the True Grit remake, or the The Assassination of Jesse James. Not El Topo for Tom Waits.

Americans are so bigoted they belive they can rock up onto any rock they want, undisputed and be the bad guys when they wipe out the native populations as they are not wanted.

They cannot even begin to think about admitting what they did might have been even remotely wrong.

xD

This thread is exactly the same as every single NA thread to appear on this site, hilarious.

>>1619737
I dunno I remember this really cool thread awhile back when we were talking about Native Fashion and Wooden Armor, those designs on them were cool as fuck.

>>1619737
Are Americans the Eternal Dindu?

>>1619773
I should make a thread about that.

McClintock had a good portrayal imo. A good chunk of them watch a bunch of Cowboys beat each other up, only for the drunk Chief saying that fight was good entertainment, but must leave since there is no Whiskey.

>>1619783
I personally think the Anglos have a firm grip on that title.

>>1619637
>no right to do so

That's rich, cuck.

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ITT Chief Sore Bottom and his war party

>>1619659
>he doesn't count as white

Fuck are you on about imbecile, Columbus was indeed white. The point is that he landed in the Caribbean so it has fuck all to do with the US settlers.

>>1619792
Be sure to just have a series of pics at the ready to start things off with so there can be a good discussion about it, because you know people will try to derail it by posting armor from around the world...actually that wouldn't be a bad thread either.

>>1619347

have you read blood meridian?

>>1619415
~ara ara

>>1619347
I mean, it highly depends on which tribe you study though, right? I think the romanticism kicks in with the whole group dynamic with everyone being able to have their say and living as a closely knit group which is something we often long for and admire today.

>>1619380
They were pretty fucking savage and brutal in the Revenant

>>1619637
>no right to do so
Indians literally did not have the European concept of ownership; if no one lived there it was no one's land

>>1619638
Yes, I'm sure an entire fundamentalist colony would pack up and go live with heathens

>>1619685
>it was totes a honor brah
>but they wouldn't be cheering, no way

The sacrifice period was literally a festival for them

>>1620344
The fucking founders were writing each other letters saying that it was a problem that this very thing was happening.

>>1620337
>the Revenant
Actually did a good job of showing the differences regarding each tribe. Showed on the one hand the ones who lived close to westerners and closely traded or in some cases lived together with them, then shows the more ruthless tribes down the river who have more of a raiding culture to them. A balanced view, unlike many in this thread who seemingly can't understand the difference between tribes. Like do they get how big america is? Why would they be the same

>>1620421
I'm sure isolated cases could happen. But you're arguing that an entire fucking colony just got up and left to leave with them

>>1619470
Sounds like Europeans

>>1620439
The entire fucking colony was about two dozen people who weren't well suited to the American climate and remote life.

You don't think it's plausible that after some of them died of disease or malnutrition, the rest decided to take shelter with the greatly more numerous Indian group nearby?

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>>1620463
?
It's far more likely that the Indians fucked their shit up than the set of circumstances you're proposing

>>1620487
Are you kidding me? Freaking Benjamin Franklin is quoted as saying that Europeans craved the 'savage life' after getting a taste of it. That and Hernando De Soto was posting guards to keep people from leaving and defecting to the Natives. I can cite the source for those claims but you probably will dismiss them.

>>1620506
m8, you're still not fucking getting it.

A few people dissapearing is fine, but 116 of them is suspicious

>>1620509
>Traveling to a new continent
>Leeches are the cutting edge of medicine
>Not sure how to properly til the land and grow crops here due to differences in soil
>Can't grow enough to feed yourself let alone your family

I mean you are just coming up with conspiracy theory shit and can't bring up a lick of evidence that there was any kind of battle there. I mean hell I am making shit up as I go right now but at least I am coming up with something of more substance then 'those guys did it!'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1y_0NfhF9c

>>1620522
>conspiracy theory shit
>says the guy who believes that their disappearance was 100% natural because muh indians dindu nuffin
Occam's razor laughs in your face.

>weird palefaces from across the ocean come and establish a camp
>maybe insult you or something
>gather up your men and raid during the night, killing the men and taking the women and children as your slaves
>powhatan boasts about it to John Smith

or

>116 fundamentalists gladly packing up and leaving their encampment to live and breed with heathen barbarians (as they saw them)
>not even leaving a message or anything
>don't even try to trade with your countrymen ever again
>John Smith reports no whiteys among the indians
>10 years later Jamestown suffers several attacks by Powhatan and the indians and are barely beaten back

>>1619684
North American natives or South American Indians who are migrating to the US?

>>1620556
North

>>1619822
>>1620338
>Indians don't know what is land ownership
>What is the Iriquois and the tribes that lived there
FUCK SAKE STOP THAT MEME

>>1620552
I was talking about how the founding fathers had a problem with people leaving to join the natives and even how it was happening to a bunch of conquistadors. I didn't think we were talking about the six gorillion at jamestown but I will give you that one. So go ahead and keep cherrypicking that incident as some kind of causus belli to say that every single tribe everywhere had the exact same mindset on the settlers.

>>1620649
Oh, but I don't, I'm just saying that the first recorded conflict in NA was initiated by the Indians

>>1620642
If these so-called "noble" savages had knowledge of property as you claim ...why didn't they fight for it harder?

Checkmate, redskins.

>>1620675
Do you think that Natives are just a hivemind? Hell there were tribes out there who would have gladly sided with the people at Jamestown to wreck that tribe's shit if it was possible to make contact with them. This is like saying that Germany is innocent of all wrongdoing for anything that they do to the rest of Europe because the Romans attacked them first

>>1620701
I'm NOT claiming that, nor am I excusing stuff like trail of tears or Wounded Knee, just sharing historical info

>>1620708
You are doing this 'yea well they started it' thing when that really is no the case when it comes to all of the different tribes and settlements that would eventually come around each other.

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Native Americans have always sorta been a symbol of freedom and the wilderness to the American culture. And as of late, they have sort of become a symbol of humble Americans always in resistance to an over-reaching government.

Native Americans in American consciousness have become a sort of American ideal. Nobody likes fucking Custer anymore, who wants to support the federal government picking on Americans? People with full or partial native American heritage make up 1.7% of the total American population, rounded down to one percent, that makes one out of every 100 Americans a native. That's really not that small a number.

That, and Indians were feared as warriors, that creates a meme that lasts.

There is a reason that if an American has some native American blood in him/her, chances are that's the most proudly displayed part of that persons heritage, and this is across the board in American civilization. Conservative, liberal, everyone loves the natives. Except for the eternally butt-hurt internet reactionaries.

>>1620758
>American heritage make up 1.7% of the total American population, rounded down to one percent

Do Americans not know how Maths and rounding works?

>>1620509
I'm guessing there were far fewer than 116 after a couple winters

>>1620764

Rounding down to one percent, then that equals one out of every hundred americans.

I just wanted to give a clear representation of how many native Americans there were by comparing it to a solid fraction without rounding up. 1/100.

>>1620784
oh, I thought that was how they did it - rounding down above the nearest .5. But if it was just your doing, that's perfectly okay.

>natives were in-touch benevolent nature dudes that white people couldn't understand
>natives were stone-age murderers and pillagers
Both ways of thinking are fucking retarded.

In essence, the Native Americans were little different from their European counterparts. The Missisipians built houses and large earthworks. The Iroquis Confederacy conducted conquests against other areas, as did literally every other tribe. The Native Americans also engaged in temporal diplomacy and marriage-alliances/dowries, no different from European powers.

When France and England started their colonies, they played the tribes against each other via diplomacy and trade. You've been deluded by either SJW or /pol/ if you don't think the tribes were aware of this and not doing the same against the Europeans. The tribes controlledl fur and other important resources, and contrary to propaganda, they knew basic supply and demand economics and how to bend the will of European powers to their advantage.

>"b-but natives just killed each other all the time and were in the stone age! the """"white man"""" was much more advanced!"
This is the sign of a historical illiterate person.

Germanic tribes would still be killing each other if not for Rome. Medieval nobles would still be starting wars against each other if not for the Papacy. Europeans would still be killing each other in massive wars if not for international dialogue.

>>1620758
>Conservative, liberal, everyone loves the natives. Except for the eternally butt-hurt internet reactionaries.
Or anyone that's ever been to a reservation.

>>1620840
Which is a really small number. Except for the touristy places, like Casinos and such.

Even most natives don't live on the rez.

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>>1620506
>Are you kidding me?

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>>1620869

Misusing the meme.

"Are you kidding me?!' was mocked because Carl gave no supporting arguments. Which the anon you quoted did do.

>>1620890
Shhhh, he needs to feel like he won the argument without any actual refutations.

>>1620890
Nigger what, you're talking about Hernando de Soto who died 40 years before Roanoke was settled. That's not an argument at all.

>>1620974
I think the idea was that this was something that had been occurring for quite some time in more than one place which is why two different people in two different places at two different times were brought up.

>>1621059
We're talking about Roanoke. There is 0 evidence that there was Indian intermarriage there.

>>1621069
The thread was to talk about natives in general so places besides Roanoke are going to be brought up.

>>1621078
I was the guy who brought up Roanoke.

>>1621086
And somebody brought up things besides Roanoke, what is your point?

>>1621090
That it's completely fucking irrelevant whether other colonists have intermarried when debate was specifically about Roanoke to start with.

>>1621103
So what we are supposed to only talk about Roanoke on a rather large subject like this just because you brought it up?

Besides the thread was originally about freaking movies and then it quickly started talking about history.

>>1621117
Yes. The claim was that Roanoke settlement was abandoned because they were wiped out and not because they intermarried, to which you countered with Hernando de Soto and other unrelated crap.

>>1621178
You were trying to act as if that was the norm and nothing else of the sort ever happened in any similar situation.

>>1621182
>strawman

>>1621190
>greentext

So does anybody know any good westerns? I remember this one where a dude is going around committing crime and then this posse is trying to catch him and then they get blamed for some bad shit going down and then the leader of this posse is hung?

>>1619462
>>1619494
>>1619710
>>1620452
Genocide was a proven occurrence in pre-Columbian societies. Don't be a twat.

>>1619562
>claim to have no concept of ownership of land
>murder people who settle nearby

>>1619347
Did we watch the same film? The indians butchered a god damn village, to the much deserved dismay of the main-character.

>>1619575
The only good anglo is a dead anglo, the indians did nothing wrong

>>1619510
Massacring settler civilians was a way of defending their lands because it forced the settlers to either fuck off or get scalped

Not every war is like Napoleon with clearly defined borders and armies. The Indians v settler wars were classic small-scale tribal conflicts that mostly involved massacring civilians on both sides. One tribe just happened to be much bigger, better organized and technologically advanced, not to mention with an endless supply of reinforcements as more immigrants poured in from europe