I had a conversation with one guy who was claiming that Hitler

>>1595840
How do you know the elimination of Jews didn't bring the Germans, who outnumber them, happiness?

>>1595840
>i`m reading stuff about objective morality
discard that right now and read The Ego and Its Own

>>1595845
Because they were raped and murdered in the end? Also, i understand that the metrics of happiness are ambiguous, but intuitevely we could say that the more harm you are causing to other people, the worse person you are.

>>1595859
What if you believe those people are evil? Is it bad then?

>>1595868
If they weren`t accused of any objective crimes, than no, you can`t kill them.

You can prove it is immoral according to some standard, convincing them to adopt that standard is another thing.

There is the positive (facts) and the normative (values).

For example if you decide "it would be good if I had money", that is a normative statement. If you decide "the best apparent way to make money is to start a milk shop" that is a positive statement.

Be careful not to confuse the 2. Saying "I want money" is a positive statement. Also statements can be normative or positive whether they are right or wrong, it is a classification.

Look this shit up on wikipedia. Also look up the "is ought" problem and kierkegaardian leaps of faith.

With all this in mind it should be obvious it goes deeper than just proving the holocaust did happen. You have to look into their motivations, psychology, religion and philosophy.

>>1595889
Who determines what's an objective crime?
You?

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11KB, 259x194px

>>1595840
Hitler was also responsible for the multiple gang rapes of ten of thousands of Nazi girls.

no war, no rape

>>1595897
that's retarded logic

it's like saying your parents are responsible for you getting in a car crash because they conceived you.

File: this could have been you faggot.jpg (31KB, 700x464px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 700x464px

>>1595840
>hitler
the guy got fucking rolled because he had no fucking clue or idea as to what was going on or how deep pockets were
he was incredibly short sighted and a military failure
take one look at his rise to power
>peoples
>popular
>choice
the Triple Entente should have given him a fuckin' clue as to WASSUP but NUP

better strat would be take poland DO NOT TOUCH NEDERLAND YOU FUCK and then just consolidate power and trade through the world via ottoman into africa & east with pacific territorial ambitions abroard and take strategic counter meassures before the false flags arose and keep building industry and back urself into a corner if need be (With the world at ur back)

but nope instead hey lets go batshit
>dude
>dude what
>dude lets invade russia
>dude
>what
>D U D E
>U
>D
>E

>>1595890
Okay, from reading "is-ought" problem i came to conclusion that i can say that this guy is ought to believe that Hitler is bad if he agrees that he is pursuing the goal of global hapiness. Is this correct?
Can i also say that he doesnt want his family to be murdered, or genocided(since we know that Hitler wanted to genocide slavs); therefore, he has double standarts and is ignorant?
He also had an argument that if Hitler would have fulfiled his plan, we would live in a better world. Can that be argued?

>>1595931
>wanted to genocide slavs

Fuck off with this meme

>>1595897
Slippery slope there anon. Just because Hitler started the war doesn't mean he's completely responsible for the rape, he's responsible for the events leading to that.

>>1595859
>because they were raped and murdered in the end
By outsiders, not Hitler or other Germans.
If i give my child a lollipop, and you then punch my child in the face because he's not supposed to have that much sugar, who's the bad guy?

>>1595840
14/88 and walk away