> Literally invented fascism as coherent ideology > Cucked

>>1577954
Hitler was more.... you know memeful.

>>1577954
He had a terrible sense of judgement. Should've allied himself with the Anglos and French or at least stayed neutral. Nothing good ever comes from siding with the eternal Kraut.

>>1577954
At the end of the day, Il Duce was more Italian than Roman.

>>1577975
This. His primary mistake was his involvement in the war and not the cultural reunification of Italy. Mussolini did much for Italy but he was overly ambitious and fucked the country even further in the end. "A nation of spaghetti eaters will not restore the glory of Rome"

>people had too much faith in mussolini
>people didnt have enough faith in Italy itself (italian nationalism was shit compared to german nationalism, and liberal italy didnt give a good enough foundation to create a cohesive unity. the only people in 1870 who really wanted a united italy were italian jews lmao)
>keeping the 'cucked king' as monarch
>dumb autarky, and dumb irrendentism as opposed to a grander foreign and economic policy
>cucked by Abyssinia
>cucked by Allies
>couldnt even make trains run on time
>shit bald head

btw he pussied out of the march on rome, he was waiting miles away whilst the blackshirts did stuff

>>1578004
It was the only way to make italy great again
Everything from connecting the colonies to dominating the mediterranean would have meant allied enmity. Already with ethiopia the allies posed hostile, were germany to lose a war with them italy would have forever remained cucked to the allies without means of fighting back, at the very least riding on the german wave posed some possibility of success

>>1577975
He tried to ally himself with the Anglos and French.

They didn't accept, because lol fascism.

>>1578051
>make Italy great again

Do you mean like the Roman empire? Italy itself wasn't even 100 years old and was at the zenith of it's power before the war.

>>1578061
They didn't accept it because Italy managed to completely fuck itself when it came to foreign policy. The Italians wanted to block the Anschluss, but kept bragging about how great their fleet was, and started the war in Ethiopia because 'muh Adwa' just made things that much harder. if you were the foreign policy person in Paris or London from 1930-1941, you'd be criminally incompetent to start having the Italians as allies.

Or the French and British remembered how Italy said it would help the Central Powers in WW1, only to turn around and renege on their agreement.

Can someone tell me about a man named Italo Balbo. I hear that he was a influential Fascist and part of the hierarchy like Goering for example and Germany. I hear that he was a more "moderate" Fascist who was opposed to allying with Germany.

Starting another war in Ethiopia was probably the single most retarded thing he could've done. It completely neutered the Italian army and destroyed their international reputation.

>>1578127
How would it have neutered the Italian army? For all intensive purposes it was a success for Italy.

>>1577975
This.

>Austrians ally with the Krauts
>Krauts force them to send ultimatum to Serbia that would almost certainly trigger a big war because Willy II felt "the time is right" to start one
>Austrians get buttfucked, midway into the war they begin separate peace negotiations with the Entente
>Krauts find out about it and literally threaten to put Austria under a military occupation if they don't tag along till the end
>Austria-Hungary gets absolutely raped after the war by St. Germain and Trianon treaties, Germany gets off comparatively easy with Versailles treaty that isn't even properly enforced
>OY VEY VERSAILLES WAS THE WORST INJUSTICE ANY COUNTRY HAS EVER WENT THROUGH, BETTER START A NEW WORLD WAR BECAUSE OF IT!

Allying with Germany is JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP: the diplomacy. Literal death sentence.

>>1578146
Well Germany was a fairly homogeneous state as opposed to Austria-Hungary. If Austria wasn't so multicultural then it wouldn't have been divided the way that it was. Same goes for the ottomans more or less.

>>1578174
They wouldn't be divided at all if they weren't pressed into joining a war where they were clearly disadvantaged is my point. The same applies to Mussolini.

>>1578174
It was multi-cultural but all ethnic groups under it declared loyalty to Kaiser and even nationalists under it wanted independence within the realm not outside of it. They had plans to federalise the state and would have probably survived to this day if not for WW1.

>>1578118
Was famous for being a good airplane pilot, seemingly liked as governor of Libya, died too soon for a retarded reason

Italy had a weak army and was an incompetently run mess since the Risorgimento. Mussolini only somewhat improved the situation during the less than 20 years he was in power before the war

>>1578004
The problem with every fascist leader was starting/joining WWII

Had they not destroyed their countries with war they would've been praised as heroes today. Kinda weird to think Hitler could've been considered a respected leader.

>>1578216
Franco didn't join WWII and is hardly seen as a hero by anyone except fringe right in Spain.

>>1578224
i was gonna add with the exception of Franco, he pretty much turned his country into shit.

>>1578230
He was a run off the mill fascist. He turned his country to shit because unlike Italy or Germany fascists didn't acquire the state for free. There was a Republican reaction and war ensued. After he got the reigned he basically applied run of the mill fascist state uniformity process which didn't bring prosperity to the country because no war economy.

If a country with huge resources like the USA became fascist, and could sustain a state of constant warfare and a military industrial complex, would fascism succeeded?

>>1578264
I doubt USA could become fascist. Americans would probably think national syndicalism is a form of communism if they think national health care is socialism.

>>1578299
I don't mean the actual USA, just a hypothetical state with lots of raw materials and strong industry. Because it sounds like the fundamental flaw with fascism is it can't take over the world.

>>1578314
Fundamental problem with fascism is it aims to make a closely knit national syndicalism with interventionist policies while trying to assure an uniform national state but also depends on expansion and war time economics as pseudo-investment for state growth.

Fascism in the traditional Italian sense doesn't work. National socialism also likely wouldn't work on the long term with a boom Germany experienced because it would have a long period of stagnation due debt cycling economy.

Of course these are all speculations but we have a fascist state which adhered very closely to traditional policies of fascism but without war. That being said Spain might not be the perfect example due recovering from a civil war.

Personally I think fascism is the worst alternative. It has neither the freedom of a democratic, neo-liberal society nor the promised equality of a communist society. It's the worst of both worlds simultaneously and only really serves people who want a homogeneous state syndicalist society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fko5fYIBJFU

>>1578349
Freedom is a buzzword, the only thing communism achieves is getting everyone equally poor. You're retarded.

>>1578420
>individual liberties and minimal state intervention in personal or business life is a buzzword
>communism doesn't work but fascism does even though fascists states all failed

Whats with /pol/tards making the argument communism doesn't work because USSR failed but failing to apply same "logic" to all European fascist states that failed completely and utterly?

>>1578437
They failed because of treachery of the Jews, not because so called flaws of fascism.

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>>1578448

>>1578448
Communism also failed because it was controlled by Jews. Capitalism is controlled by Jews.

>>1578437
>it's not a buzzword because I give it my own definition, even though that's exactly what a buzzword is
>lmao they lost a war this means it doesn't work
I like that you bring up that communism doesn't work in practice when what I mean is that it doesn't work even in theory, all the while using the effect of losing the biggest war in history as a supposed argument while the USSR just failed spontaneously all of a sudden

>>1578090
>Italy itself wasn't even 100 years old and was at the zenith of it's power before the war.

People had a concept of "italy" before it was unified, you know.

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>>1578469
Them losing wars is proof that it doesn't work due national struggle and war economy being essential to ideology and mechanics of fascism. An interventionist and syndicalist state is stagnant without investment, the expected development and funds from a military industry complex as well as acquiring of resources directly as a means to feed the economy both depend on war.

Communism works in theory in post-scarcity society which wasn't reached, I do not advocate for communism, I support neo-liberal economic policies with state regulation for quality control. National or anarcho-syndicalism, interventionism and communism are all anti-thesis of this. Communism is however more plausible since it aims to be self-sufficient while fascism is instinctively tied to political interaction.

>>1578090
>Do you mean like the Roman empire? Italy itself wasn't even 100 years old and was at the zenith of it's power before the war.
Kingdom of Italy existed in the early middle ages and later Kingdom of Italy existed as a cultural sphere within the Holy Roman Empire and throughout all that Italy existed as a concept.

>>1578497
Why not Ricardian socialism?

>>1578349
Portugal had a fascist government that avoided war until later on. While its government managed to stabilize the economy initially, by the end it was pretty shit compared to the rest of Europe, stuff like low educational standards and non-competitive industry.

>>1578497
I couldn't manage to make a longer string of utter nonsense if I tried, everything you wrote in that first line is made up drivel
Of course, they didn't lose ww2 for being poorer and weaker nations than their enemies, it's because their ideology makes you lose war because it needs war for war reasons!

>Communism works in theory in post-scarcity society which wasn't reached
Holy kek, it's literally about making everyone equal when guess what, every single one of us is different.
Fascism's aim is literally making your fucking country self-sufficient, you don't even know what you're discussing

>>1577954
Hitler had a bit more sense for military matters, also German military traditions were far superior to Italian ones. Hitler had a legion of excellent officers from a culture that encouraged teamwork and excellence.

>>1577954
All he had to do was what Franco did. Instead he choose military aggression for no reason other than "muh empire".

>>1578545
Explain to me how an interventionist and national syndicalist society can have an improving economy without a way to extract investment? War is tied to fascist politics entirely and the self-sufficiency of fascism is an extent of this also tied to a war industry. It aims to be free from foreign influence exactly because it wants dominate other states.

Of course I assume like most of /pol/tards you are an American and you think fascism is America without degeneracy when americans would consider key tenets of fascism, interventionism and syndicalism as some sort of socialist bullshit.

It doesn't matter why they lost, it matters they lost and got dismantled. Fascist countries that were not involved in war got economically stagnant and collapsed on its own. It should make you think that communists could take a backwater country like Russia and make it an industrial powerhouse during a war while fascist Spain which adhered perfectly to fascism and national homogeneity got completely stagnant with no actual development while it had relatively little competition or influence in its own politics.

>>1578545
I think what Anon is trying to say is that Fascism sucks because it has to start wars it then can't win.

>>1577954
>> Literally invented fascism as coherent ideology
But he didn't

>>1578579
It's interventionist when it comes to achieving self-sufficiency, once it is achieved and war is not necessary to ensure your nation's future it naturally becomes isolationist, it doesn't want the failure of other states, it merely wants the success of its own. This is true freedom, not being self-sufficient is being a subject to the nations you're dependent on. Americans have an enormous industry and endless land, that's what makes them free, countries with insufficient land and shit industry will always be dependent on others and it's their right to ensure a better future for themselves. Having said that it is obviously against a nation's interest starting a war it can't win, and that's not what was happened in 1939.

Those post-war fascist countries were unable to act in the world-stage in a by then communism and capitalism dominated world, in an age where all-out wars meant self-destruction and nobody would trade with you, it's a dead end. Since ww2 enacting fascism is idiotic, it only made sense when wars were sustainable and nations could dream of independence from the world stage.
Nice russia was a shithole meme, in ww1 it held its ground against the central powers, communism merely kept the ball rolling. They did do an amazing job at making the masses shut the fuck up while not making it any better for them.
Spain already was a stagnating nation even before the civil war, fascism just delayed the process.

>>1578595
As if starting wars you're bound to lose looks beneficial to fascism.

>>1578238
Franco was not a fascist, he was a counter-enlightement reactionary monarchist. He did ally with fascists (Falange, Germany, Italy) but he wasn't one himself.

>>1577954
>Cucked king of the Italy himself out of his power
other way around you mean

>>1578824
>reactionary monarchist
I'm not even sure I would call him a monarchist.

>>1578813
>As if starting wars you're bound to lose looks beneficial to fascism.
I dunno, all of them apart from maybe Franco did get involved in a war against both France, the UK; the USA and the USSR all at the same time.

>>1578899
>the USA

>>1578813
>It's interventionist when it comes to achieving self-sufficiency, once it is achieved and war is not necessary to ensure your nation's future it naturally becomes isolationist, it doesn't want the failure of other states, it merely wants the success of its own.

Fascist ideology doesn't want failure of other states for the sake of their failure but the ideology means if failure of another state is beneficial to the state then it must if it will.

>This is true freedom, not being self-sufficient is being a subject to the nations you're dependent on.

Doesn't require fascism and also proof fascism is best at achieving this goal of complete self-sufficient isolation?

>Having said that it is obviously against a nation's interest starting a war it can't win, and that's not what was happened in 1939.

Germany couldn't sustain its economy without invasion not to mention their other retarded ideologies that's now baggage to all of fascism.

>Those post-war fascist countries were unable to act in the world-stage in a by then communism and capitalism dominated world

That's failure on part of fascism exactly because fascism believes state comes first and should do in international politics what it requires to achieve this. It's like saying fascism works if the state using it already dominates world politics and fascism is relevant. How is this any different than Utopian requirements of communism to take place according to Marx? If a state is already dominant in world politics why does it need to be fascist in the first place?

>Nice russia was a shithole meme, in ww1 it held its ground against the central powers

Russia had a decent army but infrastructure and industry wise it was way, way behind other European powers, even behind Austria.

>They did do an amazing job at making the masses shut the fuck up while not making it any better for them.

As if fascism does not do the same.

>>1578545
> it's literally about making everyone equal
Is it what they teach in american schools, kek

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Modern supporters of fascism does not understand economy and it devolved into a muh degeneracy and muh feminism circlejerk in some boards

What do people mean when they say fascism wanted to be self sufficient? It seems pretty easy to achieve depending on your aims without invading anybody. If self sufficient includes everybody to have cars and radios you may run into some problems.

>>1578937
Self-sufficient involves not only agriculture and accommodation but also an economy and war industry.

>>1577975
/thread

>>1578905
>Doesn't require fascism
It's merely a statement, it does require acquiring land and money though, the desire to do it simply uses fascism as a means to overrule the other voices in parliament that make it near impossible
>Germany couldn't sustain its economy without invasion
That's the german nation's problem, which sounds silly anyway

>It's like saying fascism works if the state using it already dominates world politics and fascism is relevant
No, it's just saying that without the means to obtain self-sufficiency what even is the point of trying? Before ww2 wars were still manageable and the economy was still able to function in a relatively isolationist nation.
>If a state is already dominant in world politics why does it need to be fascist in the first place?
It doesn't, which is why america avoided it. But today it's going against its own self-interests under the establishment that follows its own, there a modernized fascism could lend a hand to weed them out.

>>1579001
So you are saying you agree that fascism is implausible and unnecessary but currently could be needed in America in effort to cleanse the political and economical elite?

>>1578937
America buy tons of shit from china, to be self-sufficient it should be able to produce that same kind of shit on its own. That or just stop buying it and be able to make without

>>1579011
1920s fascism is implausible and unnecessary in the 21st century.
The aims of following your nation's interest overruling people who wish otherwise are needed

>>1578299
Americans only think social programs are communist when lefties do them.

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>>1579032
Is an ideology from the 1790s plausible in the 21st century?

Is an ideology from the 1840s plausible in the 21st century?

If ideologies created in a late-mercantilist and early-industrial context are plausible today, why can't fascism also be feasible?

>>1578824
>>1578888
nice quads. I guess he was a despot first and foremost, but he did restore the Bourbons upon his death; Juan Carlos simply chose to restore (a rocky) transition to democracy.

Anyway, to contribute to the threat at large, I think spaniards typically explain Franco's reign in two eras: el primer franquismo (first "Franco-ism"), which was the period of intense autarky up until the early 50s, if I'm not mistaken; later came el segundo franquismo (second "Franco-ism"), which witnessed an entrance into the broader diplomatic community (most notably the US, in my opinion) and the hasty post-war buildup of the tourism sector.

My interpretation is that the first franquismo comes closest to "fascism," but does kind of shit the bed in that Franco skirted WWII and therefore opted for entropy as his model of government versus radicalization chosen by Germany and Italy. I cited Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism just yesterday in a different thread, but I'll cite it again for the idea of "entropy versus radicalization," which is a really clever observation in my opinion

>>1579122
Because fascism is weird and no one agrees with its definition.
The idea of self-interest is very plausible today, but fascism has a baggage that nobody can even identify.
The corporastism is of course the other side of the coin but I think it is merely an attempt to create a democracy that can only work in favour of the state and is just a follow-up to the first principle.

If someone looks at italian fascism and considers invading african countries to take their soil part of it, it's of course not feasible in this day and age with the outrage it would create.
If you just see it as the right to have a power struggle, it can be applied in all ways and it shouldn't be judged by its consequences since the environment that calls for it already has negative consequences even in the case it isn't done

>>1577954
The High command of Italy learned all the wrong lessons out of the Spanish civil war. They though bi-planes were still the way to go for the near future, they made more tankette then true tanks, the true tank they made pre-war was only 11 tons, they only started making Self-propelled guns after the war started...

Their army was so deep in the interwar period come WWII that they were dead last in modernization among the major players.

>>1579192
The foreign policy of a country has more to do with its context in location and time rather than on ideology.

When Mussolini launched the invasion of Ethiopia, it wasn't Italy's first try. In 1894, during the liberal presidency of Francesco Crispi, Italy tried to invade Ethiopia and failed.

So you might as well say:
>If someone looks at italian liberalism and considers invading african countries to take their soil part of it, it's of course not feasible in this day and age with the outrage it would create.
But how come, let's say, Argentinian liberals didn't try to invade an African country? How come modern liberals aren't trying to invade African countries?

Should've pulled a Franco and a Salazar and just told Hitler he'd help eventually, then never do anything.

>>1578134
>Intensive purposes
I will fucking murder you

>>1579369
The first war against ethiopia was just a jab at it, expecting it to be a walk in the park, simply to reinforce the presence in africa. The number of troops invested in it was low and the purpose wasn't to obtain vital space, but just to get richer from it, as it was the only area in africa that wasn't already owned.
It very obviously was not caused by liberalism, but simply by the nation's needs. The fascist war on ethiopia on the other hand was weirder, the time to enlarge a colonial empire was long gone and there wasn't much of an economical gain (which is why everyone avoided it for 200 years). It only makes sense when thinking of obtaining food for a potential cut off of trade. Given that another ideology wouldn't have even considered such a move you could connect it to fascism.

All fascist countries have in common the desire for more land to be more independent, it doesn't mean that fascist countries must act on it though.

>>1579493
I use my Hitler card which protects me from all murder attempts and lynch mobs but at the cost of my own life.

>>1578264
Memes aside, the best answer to that lies in Mosley's 100 questions asked and answered. His feeling was that unlike Germany and Italy, who were fighting for regional and global hegemony, Britain (and your theoretical USA type country) was already the preeminent world power. As such, the national drive should not be a military one to gain power, but domestic, to better maintain the power you already have

>>1577975
>allying himself to the eternal anglo
He should have stayed neutral like Franco

>>1577954

>Cucked king of the Italy himself out of his power

That same king would wind up dismissing him. Who exactly was the cuck?

>>1578264
First off, your question is silly because fascist Portugal did succeed for decades, until a military coup killed it.
Secondly, fascism does not require a "state of constant warfare".

>>1578535
The Portuguese economy was even worse before Salazar, as was literacy and most other things.

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>>1578497
Literally nobody has said that fascism has never been tried.
Furthermore, fascists don't object to "innocent" communists being slaughtered.
Finally, neither Franco nor Tojo were fascists. You have no understanding of what fascism is, or how its followers think. Typical leftist pseudo-intellectual.

>>1578918
>like who even cares about the spiritual health of the nation, we need to maximize gdp growth

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>>1580054
> spiritual health of the nation
What does that even mean

>>1580064
It means what it means. How healthy the nation's spirit is. Whether or not it's corrupted by greed and hedonism.

>>1579497
Britain and France were actively enlarging their empires in the 20s. The British were waging colonial expansion up until the turn of the century and after. Learn so history retard

>>1580036
Lightning bolt is gay every time I see it

>>1580070
what did they expand on nigger, mars?

>>1580086
>seizing German Africa
>German pacific
>dismantling the ottomans into the heir own little territories
>the boer wars and the subjugation of the interior of South Africa

idk nigger maybe read a book or something you stupid faggot

>>1580111
Holy shit I swear the fucking retards who write "read a book" are the ones who know less of all.
>ww1 peace deal
>revolt
(both before the 20s)
woah they sure wanted those patches of land
You're probably the same castrated mongoloid who went around saying that the german army had blacks fighting in the western front

>>1578497
>Tojo
>fascism

Why are communists so fucking retarded and ignorant?

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>>1580141

>>1580133
Wow so expanding your territories isn't expanding now? Fucking nigger go burn a weave shop faggot

>>1580149
I can't figure out how I'm supposed to read this chart.

>>1580152
>waging colonial expansion
They didn't wage shit. You were implying they actively seeked out colonial territory when it was just a by-product of winning wars.

>>1577975
he only did so at the last minute when Germany overran France and it looked like they could win.

>>1580166
So if they didn't want to expand and even fought to contain and destroy Germany as an global power as britain did. Why not let them go? Why didn't they establish new countries in those areas? Why expand?

>>1580182
Of course they kept them idiot, that's not the point

>>1580054
a nation without prosperity quickly falls into degeneracy and infighting.

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>>1577954
> Literally invented fascism as coherent ideology
Uh, no, that would be Giovanni Gentile and, to lessor extent, Gabriele D'Annunzio. Mussolini didn't invent fascism anymore than Trump invented paleoconservatism

>nobody mentions the greatest Fascist to ever walk the Earth
Tell me one thing Ioannis Metaxas did wrong other than dying

>>1580224
Should have covered the center instead of over committing to drive the Italians into Albania.

>>1580281
He was dead when the Germs arrived it was the ineptitude of the next leadership that allowed the troops to stay there and not protect the Metaxas line

He would've protected it had he not been killed because he knew the importance of a defensive line in the Greco-Bulgarian border

>>1577954
>> Cucked king of the Italy himself out of his power

If you mean "obediently resigned when ordered to do so by the King" then yes.

>>1580149
Gotta love how accurate this is. I even saw lefties call Pinochet a fascist on this board.

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>>1577975
> Should've allied himself with the Anglos and French or at least stayed neutral.

Indeed, and Mussolini would today be remembered as Italy’s greatest leader, who made the country a true player on the global stage.

Unfortunately, he came to believe his own propaganda and ended up fucking the Italians.

>>1577954

He was ruling over the Eternal Spaghetti.

They... well.. Yeah... They weren't going places no matter how idealistic Mussolini was about his dreams of a new Roman empire.

>>1581956
He could have stayed with Hitler and stayed friendly neutral and remain out of the war.

Jealousy and Hubris was his downfall

>>1578264
>sustain a state of constant warfare
It has being doing this for the past two hundred years

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>>1582102
> He could have stayed with Hitler and stayed friendly neutral and remain out of the war.

Not for long.

If the Germans don’t knock the UK out of the war, (as happened in the original timeline and will more than likely also happen in the alt-timeline) the Mediterranean becomes a critical theater and Mussolini will under extreme pressure by the Germans to declare war against the UK and once the U.S. enters the war, Mussolini will be under extreme pressure to declare war against Germany.

Unlike Sweden, Italy can’t sit out WWII.

>>1582269

It was an inevitablity, no doubt, but the longer Italy stayed out of the conflict, the more time it would have had to prepare it's armed forces. Time and time again, German High Command felt 1943 would be the optimal time for direct Italian involvement.

Every single day Italy could get would have made the difference for her readiness.

Personally I think Mussolini should have purged the Italian officer class and sent the next generation to military academy in East Prussia. There was nothing wrong with the soldier, and the equipment was a matter that could be solved. Just about every man in the Italian army higher then Captain was cancer.

>>1578420
So? What does fascism offer? The "close knit communities" ratting each other out to authorities for labor camps? The "strength" of being raped by your enemies after you fuck up and declare one too many wars? The "security" of being totally poweless and at the mercy of a dictator without checks and balances?

If you say freedom is a meme, go live in north Korea and come back to me. Standards of living are very real, and liberal democracy always dominates this arena.

>>1580054
Yes, paying the bills and putting food on the table matters more than farting on about muh political ideology. I don't know how people can deride material needs as shallow unless they've never worked a day in their life. All that floaty bullshit political philosophy you love is only sustainable in an abundant and materialistic society or the masses eventually riot. Nigga, did you learn NOTHING from the French rev?

>>1580067
>he thinks fascist countries are actually less greedy and hedonistic than democratic ones

The naïveté is palpable.

>>1582416
This. Fascism is only good in theory, much like communism.

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*record freeze*
Mamma mia yes that's-a me-a, yousa probably wondering-a how i got into the situation! It all started with me fucking up the entire axis war effort by invading greece, let's rewind the tape a bit... Scusi

>>1582560
does any movie/show actually do this or is it a fabricated meme (i dont have a TV and poor internet so havent seen that many movies)

>>1582588
There was actually lots of the teenage "self-aware" meme movies in the 90s that had that.

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>>1582297
>It was an inevitablity, no doubt, but the longer Italy stayed out of the conflict, the more time it would have had to prepare it's armed forces.

The Germans were surprisingly greedy about any technology transfers to Italy during the war, for the most part pricing their weapons tech licensing out of reach for the Italians (and the Axis allies). Which is pretty stupid, seeing as the Germans needed to keep the Italians in the game for as long as possible.

In an ATL where Mussolini sides with Hitler while claiming to remain neutral, is going to get the Italians even less from Germany and will only bring down the wrath of the Brits and later Americans.

Best bet for Italy would be to remain strictly neutral for as long as possible, then jump in on the Allied side when their strength becomes too much to ignore. At that point, Germany won’t be able to do much against Italy and the Italians gain access to post-war Allied (i.e. American) support and are perceived as one of the Good Guys.

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This board is a /fa/scist board.

Mussolini, Mosley, Cioran, and Codreanu are our guys.

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>>1584686
You forgot Jose Antonio and Ramiro Ledesma.

>>1584686
*Two* whole Romanian fascists? Is that really fair?