Pic: 1960's Afghanistan classroom. What went so horribly

LMAO LET'S SUPPORT THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS

WHAT COULD GO WRONG

Islamic communism

The Cold War, friend.

>>1535957
Power shifted from the liberal, open-minded Tajiks to the backwards Pashtun and Hazara.

There are actually more Tajiks in Afghanistan than Tajikistan fyi.

>What went so horribly wrong?
Gee I wonder if it has anything to do with that other thing that went horribly wrong in practically all Middle Eastern countries...
The world would be infinitely nicer with a liberalised (islamic)
>islamic
No.

>>1535957
The eternal Pashtun

>>1535957
I'm guessing that most of the images like this were from Kabul

>>1535957
The Cold War. Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. The West encouraging, arming and training the more radical, hard-line Islamist groups.

>>1535960
>Islam AND Communism

jesuschristhowhorrifying

>>1535957
Does this picture represent the average Afghan at the time? I have a feeling that back than there was a tiny westernized minority in the larger cities, but the majority were still forcing their women to wear burkas etc. Then the Taliban took over and started to oppress this small urban westernized minority, destroying their way of life.

>>1535957
Don't be a fool.

The people you see in this pic were the top 1% elites. It's not representative, the average Afghan woman back then lived in a bumfuck village, wore the veil just as her female ancestors did and had never attended a school.

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1950's Saudi Arabian women on an outing to the desert.

>>1535986
There are different Afghanistan ethnicities. Tajiks tend to be very secular, and most of the Islamic Golden Age was due to their ancestors even.

Pashtun and Hazara wee the idiots living in bumfuck villages.

I take it you're an American considering you don't know shit about Afghanistan? You do realize, Tajiks are actually whiter than you and many cluster more closely to Proto-Indo-Europeans, even?

>>1535984
>>1535986
You do realize that wearing the chadri is basically necessary outside of cities in Afghanistan right? Dust storms are lethal.

It wasn't a religious thing until the Taliban took power and forced everyone to start wearing it. It was just practical.

>>1535995
>Tajiks are actually whiter than you
Source?

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Iran 1960s

>>1536000
>Around 10% of Tajiks are said to have blond hair, more prevalent in the Zarafshan and Pamir region, where they are known as Pamiri people.[44]

A lot have Mongoloid admixture due to Mongol invasions, but many have high R1a %, which is associated with Proto-Indo-Europeans of Southern Russia (look up Kurgan Hypothesis).

In general, Tajiks were more educated and well-behaved than Hazara or Pashtun retards.

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>>1535976
I'm not at all for Communism, but so far it was the most effective ideology to counter Islamism. The few relevant Muslim groups that are currently secular pretty much became that way after embracing a form of Communism. Pic related, Kurdish Nationalists became pretty much the only non-fundamentalist group after based Apo came along and converted them to his version of Marxism. Other examples are Azerbaijan and Albania and to a lesser extent, the Central-Asian Turkic nations: all successfully secularized after a long history with Communism. Even though I don't like it as an economic system, I have to admit that it proved to be the best antidote for Islamism, which is still much worse.

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Many Tajiks also have red hair.

>>1536013
>In general
Separatist Kurds are retards. I am tired of Americans giving their parochial opinions on the Middle East.

>>1535997
Bullshit. Why weren't men wearing it then? And why were women wearing it indoors or in villages?

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>>1536022
>why weren't men wearing it then

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Buddhist Afghanistan was best Afghanistan.

>>1535997
So, do rural Afghan men wear a veil, too?

>>1536019
t. urk. It's no wonder they want to separate when all the countries they are living in are becoming Islamist shitholes.

>>1536027
See
>>1536025

>>1535957
>What went so horribly wrong?
I to the S to the L to the...

>>1535957
You're just biased to see western culture as good

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>>1536025
Spot the difference. Also, the argument is not only about burqas, but about being westernized or not.

>>1536028
I am not a Turk. My approach to improving the Middle East is beyond your comprehension to understand, and it goes against US interests. It aligns more with Russian interests and would invariably lead to a multipolar world. I could tell you it, if you want.

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>>1536036

>>1536037
The difference is that one is meant to be worn while herding and fighting, and the other is meant to be worn while doing more domestic duties.

It was still a highly patriarchal society retard.

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>>1536025
Nice cherrypick but I don't think that's the average rural Afghan male's wear

>>1536053
Those are Hazara. In countries like Afghanistan, you have to think of secular values, intelligence,and power as being stratified according to ethnicity.

>>1536049
I think the Pashtun are the most violent Afghanistan ethnicity, and guess who the USA sided with?

>what is cherrypicking

It's another case of elites being out of touch. Life and dress wasn't anything like this in the countryside.

>>1536078
Regardless, aren't Pashtuns.....the majority?
All you guys are saying is the majority of Afghans are radicals lol

>>1536085
They should not be the majority. There is a significant Tajik population too, and they are the ones that deserve to be the majority. If the USA really cared about stabilizing Afghanistan, it would be culling the Pashtun instead. The Tajiks were the ones that were secular.

The Hazara are poor leftovers of the Mongol invasions, but they deserve to be helped to some extent. They are easily brainwashed due to being poor.

It is true, the Pashtun are the radicalized ones, and they are better off never to have existed.

>>1536085
There are about 38-46% Pashtun and 37-39% Tajiks. It would be desirable to massacre the Pahstun instead of the Tajiks, but the Americans did the reverse because they are fucking bonehead retards.

Soviets and Americans

>Tajiks
>Pashtuns
How come everywhere that there are different ethnic groups there is conflict. But my professor at the uni, Rabinovic Scheckelberg Silverstein, said that divertisty is strenght...

>>1536028
t. Burger
Tell me more about how the Kurds are justified in Killing Assyrians and Turkmen because of "Muh Saddam" despite the fact that Thise two groups were also victims of Saddam

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USSR and CIA involvement in Afghanistan

>>1536461
Please stop posting this fuckstupid image. Those are mujahideen, the Taliban didn't exist until 1994.

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>>1536470
>implying the Taliban wasn't the result of the Mujahideen

Learn about chronology in history sheep.

>>1536496
>he doesn't know what the ISI and GID are
>he fell for the "blame America first" meme

>>1536461
>>1536496
America may have offered them the cup but they gladly drank from it, they should be the ones that should shoulder the blame

>>1536353
pretty sure most conflict in afghanistan has little if anything to do with its ethnic diversity

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>>1536513
>implying the funds given to the Mujahideen did not help create Taliban

>>1536496
That's not what I'm implying at all, but thanks for trying to start an argument about nothing.

>>1536528
>pretty sure I won't let reality get in the way of my utopian fantasies
Did you bother to read the thread fag?

>>1536531
>region is filled with billionaire sand niggers
>nah, must be America's fault these ragheads took over that country

It isn't even that America is blameless here.

America's relationship with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia was instrumental to the rise of modern jihadism.

>>1535957
>What went so horribly wrong?

>1978: Commie Coup de Etat happens
>new government immediatly splits and goes full reatrd
>litterally destabalising everything

>commie government
>this triggers the islamists
>this triggers the west

>west support islamists against commie governemnt
>soviet union invades "to reatore order"
>litterally a decade of war
>1989:soviets fuck off, this isnt going anywhere

>mujahedin fight commie government for 3 more years until it collapes
>1992
>islamist form new government
>split into shit ton of faction according to ideological and ethinc lines
>fight a bit more
>enforce islamic law and custums in the entire country
this is where it went majorly wrong
just to finish the story
>1994: one faction among the islamists rises and gains ground and power
>the taliban
>1996: they won the whole thing...
>1996-2001 they run the place, are even more dickish than preavious rulers
>inside job happens
its all know from that point on...

So yeah it was irredeamable since the point where the Commies lost the war...

>>1535997
>It wasn't a religious thing until the Taliban took power and forced everyone to start wearing it.
No really...its just them being dicks...ask afgahn women outside of afgahnistan...

>>1536412
>Kurds
>Killing Assyrians
You watch a lot of russia today dont you?
Its not like the PYD litterally has a Assyrian Milita

>>1536496
>implying the Taliban wasn't the result of the Mujahideen
well they arent the same thing tho...

>>1535957

>Islamic world liberalizes in direct correlation to how little the West is involved in it

>we can make them love freedom by invading them

>>1536027

Tuaregs have the custom of the man wearing the veil.

>>1535957
>Those ""muslims"" look white

>>1536652
>Muslim is a race

>>1535965
>>1535995
>>1536008
Not only are you trying to make it seem as if Tajiks are the 'enlightened noble ones who dindu nuffin' but somehow you are making it seem as if the pashtun majority are great buddies with the shia hazaras who were the most oppressed ethnic group in the country. Neck yourself.

>>1536041
Tell me if not the Kurd.

>Breakdown of government and wealth in the area
>Invasion by the Soviet Union further destablises the area
>warlords seize various parts of the country
>Early forms of the Taliban arrive in the form of returning immigrants from a Pakistani religious school
>Taliban is religiously fundamental and demands adherence to strict form of Islam in exchange for protection of the locals and the setting up of courts
>country unified under Taliban

It's a sad tale but it's endemic in most failed states around the Middle East and Africa.

>>1535984
>Does this picture represent the average Afghan at the time?
Most images of progressive Westerners themselves didn't represent the average Westerner of their time either. That tiny, affluent minority under a normal and prosperous nation-state goes on to influence the rest of the country through media, economics, and bureaucracy.

The Taliban only took over when this demographic was all but wiped out after decades of war with the Russians, and later among war lords.

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>>1536496
The Mujahedeen fought A G A I N S T the Taliban, dumbass.

>>1536008
Pashtuns are also overwhelmingly R1a you fucking moron.

>many have high R1a %

One person can only have one Y-DNA haplotype.

>>1536548
Lol dude USA gave Pakistan ISI $3 Billion to start the Taliban. You realise terrorist groups don't get that kind of funding?

>>1535957
>What went so horribly wrong?
nothing alhamdulillah

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>>1535957

Didn't actually take place in Afghanistan but it had a radicalizing effect on Muslims worldwide.

21 year old Osama bin Laden experienced his own "awakening" because of this event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure

>>1537079
The Mujahedeen fought FOR and AGAINST the Taliban, the Mujahedeen aren't a monolithic existence

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Too much modernization in a small amount of time breeds reactionaries/fundamentalists.

>>1537712
It has much more to do with political instability.

On of Regan's biggest mistakes was arming the Muslims.

He is in fact directly responsible for 9/11.

>>1537746
Reagan's term was nothing but a string of mistakes into the future.

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>literally no one can spend the time to actually read a book about the middle east after the fall of the Ottoman empire
>just keep fucking making shit up and inserting biases and bullshit everywhere

Holy fuck, just read a fucking book and you'll understand why the region is the way it is.

>>1535957
Reminder that outside wealthy parts of Herat and Kabul, Afghanistan was still a right-wing Islamist shithole.

The aftermath of the Soviet invasion caused right-wing rural fundamentalists (supported by the US) to seize control of the Afghan state.

>>1537753

Yeah I mean if the Soviets had won then they would have killed Osama Bin Laden years before we did.

>Oh no russia is spreading communism
>Better fund these people

>Oh no Gaddafi wants to change currency of oil
>better fund these people

US foreign policy

>>1537788
Yeah and it's been working pretty damn good so far you faggot.

I don't see any hyperpowers amidst our European colonies.

>>1537806
Training and funding your "allies" so they later can turn against you is a failure.

This has to be planned tho because i sincerely hope that the people in office aren't so naive and stupid they actually thought the "rebels" were gonna be moderate once they gained power.

>>1537823
It's easier to believe that these things are intentional rather than believe that we're run by absolutely incompetent people.

>>1537606
That's not what happened at all. The US tried to back Hekmatyar and force him to make amends with Massoud and Dostum while ISI inserted the Taliban as a third faction that rejected any sort of peace process.

How do people not blame the USSR for bombing Afghanistan to the stone age and making it a total shithole? The Soviet invasion alone killed around 2 million civilians and destroyed all infrastructure in that country. Not to mention it was communist bullshit that kickstarted that civil war to begin with.

>>1537832
It has to be intentional?

Right?

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>>1537866

>>1536004
Fuck Jimmy for not invading Iran

>>1535957
They abandoned communism. Marxism/communism was an all encompassing ideology that defined a world view. When that went to shit, it got replaced by a similar all encompassing ideology - islamism.

>>1536637
Blaming the west sure is nice

Maybe those countries aren't liberal because they are not capitalist and very agrarian due to lack of technological advancements and whatnot.
When your next harvest decides whether or not you'll have to sell a daughter then you'd be less liberal as well cunt, agricultural societies and Islam just mix particularly badly, altough I don't think that the ME Is bad, we just shouldn't have touched that Shit ever outside of tourism.

>>1537711
Besides tentatively Hekmatyar, Mujaheddin fought near entirely against Taliban, the Taliban themselves claimed they were bringing islamic stability to the warlords and Mujaheddin fighting each other. Taliban are mainly Pashtun with a few Baloch. Meanwhile Mujaheddin came from every ethnicity in Afghanistan.

>>1538312
Even Hekmatyar fought against the Taliban, until his lieutenants started deserting and he got asspained to no end that he can't be in charge now.

>>1538223
It was the commies who niggered up that country to begin with. Afghanistan wasn't communist in the 1960s, it had a secular king who got replaced by a secular progressive dictator, who got overthrown by Soviet-backed commies. That's the moment the country went to shit.

>>1535957
America got involved

>>1538750
You mean the USSR

>>1538752
No retard, it was America that fucked it all up

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>>1538752
ussr supported secular commies, west supported radical muslims, guess which side won.

similarly, west supported islamism in arab world to counter secular soviet backed arab nationalism.

>>1538801
You must be seriously uneducated. See >>1538328

>>1538802
USSR overthrew a secular dictator and caused an immidiate civil war. You actually can't name a single fucking good thing the Soviets and their lackeys did in Afghanistan, because there isn't one.

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>>1538805
No, you're fucking clueless. The Commies were making that country better. But Americans weren't having it, they want Communism destroyed by any means. Even if that means fucking up countries worldwide.

>>1538821
What did the commies do better? OP's pic is from before commies. The indistrialization, school reform, women's rights, secularism, commies did none of that, it was all the king and Daoud who the commies deposed and started mass collectivization which caused a civil war. They did NOTHING good in Afghanistan.

>>1538833
>The indistrialization, school reform, women's rights, secularism, commies did none of that
Uh no, that's debatable at best. Afghanistan was only half as good as say Iran or Iraq. But the Commies pushed it even further, usually by force.
>which caused a civil war
No, there was already tensions over secularizing the Muslim world. It's not like any Communist leading government triggered it.

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>>1535991
Those are most likely members of the aristocracy.

I mean, seriously, 1950's-we-still-have-slavery Saudi Arabia?

This is a Saudi Princess today, for example.

>>1538846
It's not debatable at all, everyrhing secular about Afghanistan existed because of Daoud. The dommies did NOTHING good. And by nothing I mean literally nothing, I mean in Russia Stalin at least industrialized the country and won WW2, but in Afghanistan they did jack shit other than destroying their own country. 2 million civilian casualties and infrastructure in the toilet because the commies thought it's a good idea to carpet bomb the country to oblivion, by 89 when they left the country was in absolute shit and remains shit to this day.

It was so bad that when Americans attacked in 2011 they had no idea what to bomb, because there was nothing left worth bombing, so they literally started blasting their multimillion dollar missiles into rocks and sand.

>>1538846
The civil war didn't even start over religion, it started because the commies collectivized the shit out of poor villagers and they were left with nothing.

>>1538862
>they did jack shit other than destroying their own country
The rebels destroyed the country, period. Even after the Communist government fell, the rebels continued to fuck shit up nationwide. So don't give me that bullshit about Communists being destroyers when they were fighting butthurt conservatives for a decade at least.
>>1538866
Yes it did, the hardline conservatives took up arms when the government was leading to the Soviets [for help]. The only thing the Communists did wrong was being brutal.

>>1538881
>the rebels destroyed

No, it was SOVIET BOMBERS AND ARTILLERY. It was literally a bigger bombing campaign than fucking Vietnam, road networks and entire cities were left in ruins. They never recovered.

>hardline conservatives

If you characterize pretty much the entire nation as hardline conservatives then be my guest. 70% of the army defected to the rebels when the war started. Civilian support was so high that the Russians went full Einsatzgruppen on the civs.

>>1538892
>No, it was SOVIET BOMBERS AND ARTILLERY
WRONG, it was both sides trying to blow shit up throughout those years.
>characterize pretty much
Way to read my sentence without ever understanding what I was talking about.
>They never recovered
All thanks to the rebels who fought everywhere and then had some infighting afterwards.
>70% of the army defected
Cool story; that only happened when the government itself fell in the early 90's.
>Civilian support was so high
No, it was low until the government was being brutal to contain the rebels.

>>1538911
>both sides

Except the rebels didn't even have technology to blow the fuck out of entire cities, but nice try.

>that only happened in the 90s

No, in the 90s there was factually no army, only warring factions of the Muj. The presidency that existed had no troops and even most commies were huddled around Dostum. The defection happened in the late 70s and was the main fucking reason why commies had to call in Soviets to help.

Nice to see I got to talk to yet another clueless wikipedia scholar.

>>1538833
>>1538328

Soviets were already helping Afghanistan before the revolution. Its the country that received most aid per capita from the SU; they built alot of infrastructure and tunnels and such.

Commie coups like that, or allende etc, don't happen in a vacuum, if it happened, it means it had some popular support.

>>1538925
What popular support did they have considering the entire country exploded in a revolt?

Do not forget that it was Pakistan that created and funded the Taliban with money from America.

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>>1538923
>rebels didn't even have technology to blow the fuck out of entire cities
They don't need to, dumby. They have ieds, mines, grenades, rockets, and missiles. These are enough to fuck up cities or at least villages.
>90s there was factually no army
Yes there were. The government was at its last legs before the weight of the rebels squashed the rest.
>defection happened in the late 70s
It was AFTER, dumbass. The defections happened when the government was losing.
>clueless wikipedia scholar.
Says the dumbass American with no sources, lol gtfo

>>1539129
>American

Top lel. I am Sarbani Pashtun and you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

>>1539137
Yes I do, you ignorant fuck. Gtfo and try harder

>>1539143
No you don't. Well either you don't or you're outright lying, are you a communist?

>>1539147
Yes I do, but you're too retarded to get it, yet.

>>1539150
Shitpost harder faggot.

>>1539159
Cry more nigger

>>1538925
>Soviets were already helping Afghanistan
After Daoud's coup yes, before that USA was main helper of Afghanistan.
>Commie coup
It had a lot of support from USSR, none of it Afghan, because even most Afghan communists hated Khalq which took over.

>>1538847
>This is a Saudi Princess today

Man, she's an annoying cunt. Literal parrot.

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They should just give the country to Dostum so he can forget to poke holes in the Taliban's lid again.

>>1536036
If by biased you mean I can compared the positive and negative of both sides and realize that, while the Western world isn't perfect, it's still a hell of a lot better than the middle east has been recently, then sure--I'm biased.

>>1539275
You know Dostum is dead right

>>1536999
I was defending the Hazara, you idiot. I made it clear the Hazara are uneducated due to being oppressed.

>>1536008
t. Tajik

>>1540535
Hazara are cool. I'm just saying the Tajiks were more educated. The Hazara would probably benefit more if the Tajiks were in power rather than Pashtuns.

Listen, all I am saying is we need to ethnically cleanse the Pashtun, nothing wrong with that. Lay off the Hazara and Tajiks and just proceed to disembowel and butcher all of the Pashtun.

This would yield peace in Afghanistan.

>>1535957
Communism, then american intervention, then islam. One is usually enough to ruin a country so... yeah

>>1540556
>islam
It's thanks to the ancestors of Tajiks that there was an even an Islamic Golden Age.

>>1540552
Afghan and Pashtun is the same, you Tajik boyfuckers can pack your shit and leave for Tajikistan any time you please and stop polluting a country that is not your own.

>>1540559
That Golden Age happened despite Islam, not because of it

>>1540586
Right, there was a lot of Zoroastrian influence and stuff. Islam in the Iranian sphere was more liberal due to Pre-Islamic influences.

Regardless, my point is the Tajiks are awesome. Kill all Pashtun.

The Tajiks even look European. They are the people from the Land of Turan.

This thread got me more interested in Tajiks than in Afghanistan proper.

Also fuck mudslam.

>>1540599
Pathans look much whiter than the Tajiks.

Well this thread turned to utter cancer.

>>1540606
>>1540584

Lmao fuck off back to Pakistan you shitskin goatfucking Pashtun nigger.

You "people" fuck up everything you touch, hence why you apes live and behave like Sub-Saharan Africans.

>>1540584
fuck pashtuns kill em all

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>>1540663
>>1540666
Buttmad Bacha Bazi pedophile shitskin Tajik Soviet bitches spotted

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>>1540700
>bachabazi
>not invented by pashtuns
Only pushtoon city was built by greeks, people as gay and boy loving as pushtoons.

>>1540606
As white as they come!
[spoiler] to be fair this does look like lots of greeks and mediterraneans [/spoiler]

>>1540731
>invented by pashtuns

That's why it was historically practiced mostly in the area between Mazare Sharif and Bukhara, right.

And daily reminder that historically the Tajiks were literally SLAVES of Mongoloid Uzbek sultans.

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>>1540700
Fuck off you Pashtun faggot. Even if some Pashtuns are Whiter in appearance, the Tajiks have a Whiter "culture" because they have maintained a lot of Indo-European traditions. The same is true for the Yaghnobis who're cool.

>>1540753
>muh culture

Our culture is a lot cooler than yours since it doesn't involve becoming anal slaves of every retard empire that passes by.

>>1540761
You bastards have no culture predating Islam while Tajiks do. Tajiks can claim to have ancestry with the mighty Persian empires and even the Indo-Iranians who influenced the ethos of those empires. I'm saying the Tajiks, Yaghnobi, and even the unfortunate Hazara are descendants of the people of the Land of Tur whereas you Pashtun are something entirely different and shitty. I don't consider Pashtun Iranian peoples.

>>1540778
Pashtuns have a large percentage of R1a than shitty Tajiks.

>I don't consider Pashtun Iranian peoples.

That's fine, I'm completely okay with being our own and awesome thing rather than being knockoff wannabe Persians like you.

I've heard that Pashtuns are basically genetically related to Slavs? That makes them cool in my book.

>>1540788
The majority of Pashtuns look like sandniggers. I bet that one Pashtun you posted was mixed with something else.

Go to Pakistan where you belong, niggers.

>>1540799
No, it's the Pamiris, Tajiks, and Yaghnobi people that are more closely related to Slavs. Pashtuns are just a bunch of Pakis, very few look light-skinned unlike Pamiri people, where red hair is common.

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>>1540801
Go back to the USSR you communist cucks. Afghan and Pashtun are synonyms.

>>1540799
Maybe. Both are largely R1a.

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>>1540747
It's a Greco-Turkic custom that has diffused, but even today Pashtuns and infamous for it.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-afghan-tragedy-the-pashtun-practice-of-having-sex-with-young-boys-8911529.html
>According to a 2009 Human Terrain Team study titled “Pashtun Sexuality,” Pashtun social norms dictate that bacha bazi is not un-Islamic or homosexual at all — if the man does not love the boy, the sexual act is not reprehensible, and is far more ethical than defiling a woman.


They were independent for majority of history and near all Turkics dynasties who ruled them adopted their culture. Pashtuns were usually ruled by Turkics as well, the Pashtuns are even directly descended from Turks.

>The Khilji dynasty (Persian: سلسله خلجی; Hindi: सलतनत ख़िलजी) or Khalji was a Muslim dynasty of Turkic origin, which ruled large parts of South Asia between 1290 and 1320.
>The Khilji rulers trace their roots to Central Asia and were of Turkic origin.[11] They had long been settled in present-day Afghanistan before proceeding to Delhi in India.
>The Ghilji (Pashto: غلجي), also known as Khilji (Pashto: خلجي), Ghilzai (Pashto: غلزی), and Gharzai, are the largest Pashtun tribal confederacy.[1]
>The Ghilji at various times became rulers of present Afghanistan region and were the most dominant Pashtun confederacy from c. 1000 A.D. until 1747 A.D.

Can you name even one Pathan scholar?

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>>1540809
You don't even belong in the Land of Tur.

>>1540820
>Can you name even one Pathan scholar?
Lol, no. They are the fucking niggers of Central Asia. Practically the entirety of the Islamic Golden Age came from the ancestors of Tajiks.

I'm a Persian btw that sympathizes more with the Tajiks and Hazara. I would definitely support a genocidal campaign to cleanse the land of Pashtuns. Pashtuns are the most radicalized Muslims in that region, and I say that as a Persian, lol. They are pretty much an ISIS that gets no coverage from USA because of how much they fucked up that region by supporting the wrong people.

>>1540521

But he isn't? He was still fuccen tweeting in July.

>>1539275
>getting an Uzbek to lead Afghanistan

That'll end well ...

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>>1540788
>>1540815
Tajiks are somewhat higher in R1a percentage than Pashtuns, but both have more R1a1 frequency than Slavs of any kind.
>The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan.

>>1540849
Most Pashtuns are not savage. Pashtuns are only savage due to environment, their nomadic spot and lack of outside exposure(Pak doesn't count). Many Pashtuns don't even speak a word of Pashto and are thoroughly different(see: Kabol). If Pashtuns dropped their tribal systems the way Tajiks did hundreds of years ago, they would be better off. To speak of ethnic cleansing is terrible though, no matter how low they are, these people should be educated and brought into the modern world.

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>>1540849
>I am a Persian btw

>>1540910
>If Pashtuns dropped their tribal systems the way Tajiks did hundreds of years ago, they would be better off.
They have killed too many of my Tajik brothers. The time for ethnic cleansing of Pashtuns is now. You are basically arguing one rehabilitate ISIS, which is equivalent to the Pashtuns.

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>>1540919
I look like the Mayor of Tehran.

>>1540921
>Tajik monkey shows his true face

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>>1540921
>so long as the [X] fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous, and cruel as you are.

>>1540820
Who did Alexander and the f a m run into in Afghanistan? Did they just consider themselves Iranian? You guys are acting like the Pashtuns weren't really always there.

>>1540922
Fat and balding?

>>1540921
They are bad people and stupid for sure, and they should be taught a lesson, but after that, they should be educated if possible. If they can't, then off to the chambers they go, but at least try diplomacy after a show of strength.

Holy shit, take your Tajik vs Pashtun shitflinging back to /int/ you fucking retards.

>>1540943
I am young and not fat or balding.

>>1540944
You are right, but it will be tough.

>>1540969
This is history -- Tajiks are historically superior to Pashtun. There is no denying this.

>>1540974
/int/ is the nationalistic dick-measuring board

>>1540980
What I am arguing is substantiated by history and not dick-measuring. The Tajiks and Hazara have been suffering under the oppression of the Pashtuns, this is a fact. The unstable situation in Afghanistan is mostly due to Pashtuns and how the USA sided with them.

Afghanistan was in better shape when Tajiks had power.

>>1540941
Pashtuns have no real history unfortunately, unlike Tajiks they did not record history, but instead passed down history orally. Unfortunately for historians, much of this is intertwined with myth. They claim to be the lost tribe of Israelites, Arab warriors, but also real Aryans in the same breath. In reality they are a mixed folk, very similar to Baloch, having extensively mixed with Tajiks, Turks, Punjabis, Semitics, Whites, etc.

Here is a brief rundown:
>Once recorded by Hindus as Pactyans, yet no other mention of this again, ever.
>Arachoisans and Gedrosians name to fellow Iranians
>Cause Alexander to lose half his army due to inhospitable environment
>Invade Balkans, conquer slavs, and gift name unto Croatians.
>Fairly quiet since overshadowed by Bactrians and Sughdians up north.
>Fairly quiet since overshadowed by Khorasan up north
>Turks invade and after genociding Tajiks decide to settle in modern-day Pashtun land.
>After many years of being ruled by Persians, Tajiks, and Turks finally decide to try conquering for once.
>Empire falls apart quickly
>Now have own state that is non-Pashtun majority.

These Pashtuns as an actual group have only existed for 5-400 years.

>>1540988
>we've been oppressed
>therefore we are the superior ones

This is some tumblr tier logic I swear

>>1540995
I said the majority of the Islamic Golden Age came from the ancestors of Tajiks. This is a fact. They have historically valued education unlike the barbaric Pashtun.

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>>1540999
>>1540988
>>1540974

I bathe in Tajik tears

>>1540994
>very similar to Baloch,
Also idiots. Not surprising the Pashtun are similar, and you're right, Pashtun are a bunch of hypocritical barbarians who claim to be "Israelites, Arab warriors, but also real Aryans" all in the same breath.

I can tell you they are definitely not Aryans like the Ossetians, Yaghnobi people, Tajiks, or Pamiri peoples.

>>1541011
That dude is a Persian.

>>1541015
Aryan is just an ethnonym used by Iranians and an religious term used by Indians. It doesn't really matter that Iranians are aryan, although it is always strange to hear whites use it.

>>1541031
Iranians are not Aryan, but heavily influenced by the Aryans -- with some admixture with Aryans. Their pre-Islamic ethos are Aryan - however. If we are to discuss who genetically clusters with the Indo-Iranians/Indo-Aryans, then it'd be Tajiks, Pamiris, Yaghnobi people, and Ossetians. They are descendants of those who formed the Avestan beliefs that then spread to Iran and was taken up by the natives who mixed with them to a small extent. Even the Shahnameh makes it clear Zoroastrian beliefs began in Turan (that is Central Asia and all of those ethnic groups I listed), and then spread to Fars region (i.e., Iran). There was a time Turan and Iran were united and strong.

So yeah, Pashtun are a bunch of barbaric bastards killing the noble people of Turan. Pashtun don't even practice Nowruz or other Aryan holidays.

>>1541047
>not aryan
Aryan as an ethnonym or ethnicity is ONLY found in Iranian languages. Only the Iranian peoples and ALL Iranian peoples, including Pashtuns are Aryan.

>Unlike the several meanings connected with ārya- in Old Indo-Aryan, the Old Persian term only has an ethnic meaning.[35][36]
>Strabo mentions the unity of Medes, Persians, Bactrians and Sogdians:[39]

The name of Ariana is further extended to a part of Persia and of Media, as also to the Bactrians and Sogdians on the north; for these speak approximately the same language, with but slight variations.

—Geography, 15.8
>The trilingual inscription erected by Shapur's command gives us a more clear description. The languages used are Parthian, Middle Persian and Greek. In Greek the inscription says: "ego ... tou Arianon ethnous despotes eimi" which translates to "I am the king of the Aryans". In the Middle Persian Shapour says: "I am the Lord of the EranShahr" and in Parthian he says: "I am the Lord of AryanShahr".[40][46]
>The Bactrian language (a Middle Iranian language) inscription of Kanishka the Great, the founder of the Kushan Empire at Rabatak, which was discovered in 1993 in an unexcavated site in the Afghanistan province of Baghlan, clearly refers to this Eastern Iranian language as Arya[47][48]
>In Iranian languages, the original self-identifier lives on in ethnic names like "Alans", "Iron".[37] Similarly, the word Iran is the word for land/place of the Aryan.[25]


>pre-islam
Islam is very similar to Zoroastrianism(veils, monotheism, veneration, etc). Zoroaster went against the prevailing pagan gods and as such, Zoroastrianism is much closer to Islam than it is to pagan religions like Jupiter or whatever.

>Shahnameh
The Shahnameh was composed thousands of years later and is an epic poem legend, not an historical document.

>Nawruz
Only Taliban hated it and some Pashtuns didn't celebrate it. Some, especially among Tajik areas in the city did celebrate it.

>>1536013
Communism is preferable to Islamism because at least its values and goals kinda make sense; communism is driving a car with your ass, Islamism is flooring it right off a cliff.

>>1541093
>Aryan as an ethnonym or ethnicity is ONLY found in Iranian languages.
Tajiks speak an Eastern Iranian language too. Even Ossetians speak it.

>ALL Iranian peoples, including Pashtuns are Aryan.
Azeris and Pashtun are not Aryan -- they are Turkic mongrels who bastardize our heritage. Baloch are Arab mongrels. Check here: >>1540994

Mazanderan and Gilaks are mixed with people of Transcaucasia but they still respect Persian ethos and are thus OKAY. It has to do with respecting the sacrifices of one's forefathers, or what one takes to be one's forefathers.

Azeri, Baloch, and Pashtun betray our Avestan heritage.

>The name of Ariana is further extended to a part of Persia and of Media, as also to the Bactrians and Sogdians on the north; for these speak approximately the same language, with but slight variations.
I agree.

>Islam is very similar to Zoroastrianism(veils, monotheism, veneration, etc).
Islam is against henotheism, which is what Zoroastrianism was. Zoroastrianism began as polytheistic in the Land of Tur but became more henotheistic as it spread to Iran. Henotheism is incompatible with the extreme monotheism of Islam which destroys all plurality in approaches.

>The Shahnameh was composed thousands of years later and is an epic poem legend, not an historical document.
The Shahnameh was based off folklore and the traditions that spread from word of mouth. Also, most of the Shahnameh's elaborate, exhaustive exposition of Sassanid history is accurate. The Shahnameh actually recasts a lot of Zoroastrian figures as historical figures, and it does metaphorically convey Iranian and Turan history.

>. Some, especially among Tajik areas in the city did celebrate it.

That's because the Tajiks and Iranians have a strong ethno-cultural connection with non-Azeri, non-Baluch Persians.

Ethnic diversity is not good -- it can lead to the weakening of ethos. Even Khomeini was not ethnically Persian and just Azeri scum.

>>1535957
They weren't liberal retard, they were atheist

>tfw my laptop was stolen and over 7k of photos of Afghan people I collected are lost forever

This hurts a lot. Some of those pictures were ultra rare

>>1535959
Basically this. The US done fucked up the Middle East because muh communism.

>>1535957
The vast majority of Afghans were durka illiterate peasant farmers, stop spouting this dumb meme REEEEEEEE

>>1541182
>The vast majority of Afghans were durka illiterate peasant farmers
That only applies to the Pashtun and Hazara. The Hazara were oppressed, so their current state is understandable. However, the Pashtun are fanatic Muslims on the level of ISIS.

The Tajiks were the best, like I am saying.

>>1541158
Post pics of qt Afghan grills.

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>>1541134
>Tajiks speak
Not sure what your point is here, my point is that all Iranian peoples are Aryan. Eastern Iranian and Western Iranian are all Aryan.

>Pashtuns and Azeris
Pashtuns are primarily Irano-Afghan and speak Pashto and Dari/Tajiki, bad thing about them is stupidity, exact same case with Baloch. Azeris are racially Iranoid and are only Turkic in language, which is quickly dieing out. They were Iranian too for most of their history until Greekshits invited Gokturks because they couldn't beat the Sassanids in a fair fight, thankfully Greekshits got what they deserved in the end.

>Zoroastrianism
Zoroastrianism was always monotheistic and always against false pagan pantheon, Zoroastrianism was very tolerant in Acheamenid times, but after barbarian invasion realized they were too lenient. Zoroastrianism is more similar to Islam than any other religion extant. Islam is like the child of Zoroastrianism, I hope you didn't believe retard western memes about Zoroastrianism.
>Five prayers a day
>Purification concept
>Read scripture in original language
>Veils and encouraged modesty for both men and women
>Complete monotheism against prevailing heresy and paganism in west
>Importance in direction of prayer


>Shahnameh
The Shahnameh is a cultural text and icon. Shahnameh is easily accurate for Sassanids, who were ruling only a few centuries before. But Parthians and Acheamenids, let alone ancient migrations? These were not as easy to communicate orally, and are much more sparse in the Shahnameh. Everything for Zoroaster is folk legend and speculation at best, it seems likely he was from Balkh, but we will never know for certain.

>check here
Yes, I wrote that one? Turks are only a portion of the admixture, the total admixture itself is significant, not 50-100% for all groups and everything, check their R1a1, more than slavs and even some Iranians.

>>1536603
Kurds are fucking the Assyrians in Iraq, not Syria.

Kurds are not a uniform group.

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http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/Afghanistan_Ethnic_lg.png

Full sized is worth a look, but it's too big to post.

Why the hell didn't we just partition this shithole when we had the chance?

There's plenty of land full of Tajiks that is contiguous to Tajikistan, and Turkomens to Turkmenistan, and Uzbeks to Uzbekistan. Hell, hand over the Baluchi and Pashto majority areas to Pakistan and leave the rest to take care of itself.

Politics is always more harmonious and better in ethnically homogenous nation-states. Smaller states would be more able to centralize and modernize quickly than the unwieldy monster that is Afghanistan.

>>1535957
America support KSA
KSA spread wahabbism thanks to American support, guaranteeing them a superior position in the region
Wahabbites groups appear in ME countries
When USSR invade Afghanistan, America support the wahabbites groups because their ally KSA tell them to do so.


This is actually what happened in most of the middle east and what caused Muslim countries and Islam in general to go backwards since the 70's

>>1541330
The Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Turkmens in Afghanistan are too different to those in the former Soviet Union to live without major social and civil strife.

>>1541456
Tell me more about this.

Also, is it not possible to at least give say the Tajiks a separate country, or have the Pashtun and Baloch lands absorbed by Pakistan?

It isn't going to ever work the way it stands.

>>1535995
Tajikistan has a very low IQ today stop bullshitting

>>1541513
There should be a separate Pashtunistan from Kandahar to Peshawar

>>1541201
I can't, my laptop was stolen. I literally have nothing left. When I get a new one I will rebuild my collection

>>1541735
Most Tajiks are in Afghanistan, and of course they would have a low IQ because they are oppressed. If you were to IQs of Tajiks in academia and such, I bet they would score high. Likewise, Iran's IQ scores are outdated, taken in the 50s and around rural areas.

>>1541330
What is the big white area and why is it not inhabited? Mountains? Desert?

>>1535965
lol what? Pashtuns were always in power whether it was the taliban or the communists or the kings. Tajiks had no power at the time, their power only came in the form of secondary servitude.

>>1544749
>if you tested only doctors and professors they would have higher IQ

WOW you don't say nigger

>>1544837
No, I am saying if you test it in higher socioeconomic areas, then you'd get a higher score, and the region is unstable due to many factors.

For example, if you get IQ of only rednecks in the South of the USA, then it's going to be low. There are a lot of factors you have to consider.

The 1950s of Iran was shortly after a famine and political instability, so the IQ score would not be a good representation. There were more rural people at that time period than people in cities going for education, but it is changing now.

>>1540988
The USA sided with pashtuns? What crack are you smoking? The US backed the northern alliance, it was Iran that wanted karzai in power in the end.

I love threads about afghanistan, it's full of retards like yourself and diaspora who are as, if not more retarded.

>>1540921
Your tajik brothers? You realize the average iranian even though his experience is only with hazaras, sees afghans all as the same right? Also, you realize that the average tajik from afghanistan despises iranians right? I am one, can't stand you iranians and your gay metrosexual accent.

>>1544832
This. This entire thread is Tajiks wewuzing.

>>1545005
Yeah, I'm an afghan who's both tajik and pashtun so it's funny to see them fight one another, when in my fathers time such issues and racism didn't exist at all.

No afghan I know irl are like the ones on the youtube comment sections or the ones itt. Neither were the ones in afghanistan that I knew.

the soviets couldn't even impose feminism on them and they were premiere in that regard.

>>1535995
>muh whiteness

>>1536353
yep, like all of latin america, full of all kind of different ethnicitys and tons of ethnic conflicts all the time...

go back to your containment board please.

>>1541262
yep, and the iraqui kurds are about as communist as Reagan.

>>1535957
The Afghan government tried to go Commie and the people didn't want to go Commie. The people revolted and started kicking the governments ass so the government called the Soviets for help. In response, the people called America and proceeded to kick the Soviets ass too. So to answer your question in short: the Cold War happened. Despite what memers like >>1535959 say, most of the mujahideen were moderates. The Taliban only gained control of the government after 4 years of civil war and even then the civil war continued and lasted until 2001. It quite literally lasted until the U.S. gained full control of Afghanistan in October. Much of the conflict that still exists in Afghanistan is the pretty much the same civil war which started in 1992.

>>1545195
>LatAm
>full of all kind of different ethnicities
There are two ethnicities in Latin America: Indios and mestizos. That's it.

>and tons of ethnic conflicts all the time...
There's a lot of ethnic conflict between Indios and Mestizos, both through violence and class warfare. Either way, this happened (and continues to happen) which refutes your claim:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiapas_conflict

>>1535957
>le cherry picked image of affluent children of bureaucrats in a cherry picked environment
the other 99.95% of Afghanistan still lived in poverty and squalor. Don't fucking kid yourselves

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>>1545273
>chiapas conflict
>ethnic

Shure Thing. You didn´t actually read that article you posted, did you?
I mean yeah, most zapatistas are maya, but it is not a war of mayas against non mayas or something like that...


>Two ethnicities in latin america

Please read up on the imigration histories of Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Paraguay, Venezuela, Colombia and the mesoamerican countries.

>>1545397
>implying the Chiapas conflict wasn't ethnic
It was literally about indios being mistreated by criollos and mestizos.

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>>1545430
nice to see that you dropped your original asumption.

>flag is pic related
>EZLN named after social revolutionary of mestizo, white and african descent
>shitloads of marxist manifestos

please note that postcolonial conflict =/= ethnic conflict

Read up on the EZLN. Read up on the Paras. Both groups where and are predominantly maya.

Also: criollo stopped beeing a relevant category for 150+ years.

I might reply again tomorrow, going to sleep now.

>>1545468
I don't think anyone knows who Subcommandante Marcos actually is.

>>1535957
cold war and after that neighboring countries that dont have an interest in a strong afghanistan. mainly pakistan.

>>1535957
Afghans are white?
WTF I love Afghanistan now.

>>1545616
Go back to /int/

>>1545273
>There are two ethnicities in Latin America: Indios and mestizos.
lmao
do you people do anything besides browsing the 4chingos

>>1540969
they both make a good example for what happened to afghanistan

the cold war, Islam being shit, communism,

>>1535957
Afghan here. So basically the reason (I assume) for us fucking up is the fact that Islam is a political religion. Sure Christians are more likely to be conservative and that gay shit, but Islam has a set of rules based on political affiliation.

I believe if Islam stayed the fuck away, I would actually like it. BTW, I'm an American Buddhist now. I had a big Buddha statue in my home village until it was destroyed.

>>1536013
>I'm not at all for Communism, but so far it was the most effective ideology to counter Islamism
m8 please.

the USSR suppressed all religions, including othodox christianity. occasionally the government tried to regain support of the orthodox church to gain strategic support, but afterwards they were suppressed again.


historically though, the lands of asia, around Kazakhstan and surrounds, were not islamic. the only reason they have such "strong" islamic populations these days is the backlash against the suppression in the USSR days.

however, the areas are traditionally Orthodox Asian Christian, and aboriginal religions like zoroastrian, and paganism

>>1545019
>I'm an afghan who's both tajik and pashtun
You cannot be both Tajik and Pashtun. You have to pick one.

in europe around the time of the first plague epidemic, the values of wit, intelligence, and cleverness were starting to prove more useful than piety and fealty.

when will this happen in central asian nations?

>>1545686
>Afghan here

Nobody identifies as "Afghan". It's like saying "I'm Soviet".

>>1546032

Or like saying "I'm Ukrainian."

>>1546014
I'm both, I speak both languages too. Pashtuns and Tajiks for the most part look the same too so I fit in with both.

The fact that they dont actually have the ability to export anything. They live in a useless desert. People who grow drugs can literally afford mercenaries (taliban) to outnuscle local police.

>>1546218
>Taliban are mercenaries

Another retard to the bundle

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>>1535957

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>>1536513

There's a reason why Pakistan flies F-16s and India flies MiGs.

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>>1538942
>What popular support did they have considering the entire country exploded in a revolt?

Like Libya and Syria today, the rebels were on the verge of defeat until the West swooped in to save them.

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>>1536470
>>1536461

>historically though, the lands of asia, around Kazakhstan and surrounds, were not islamic. the only reason they have such "strong" islamic populations these days is the backlash against the suppression in the USSR days.

Are you retarded? kazakhstan and central asia are islamic since the 8th century

>>1545486
I was refering to Zapata, not marcos friend.

>>1545273
>There are two ethnicities in Latin America: Indios and mestizos. That's it.

And blacks, and mulattoes, and chinese coolies, and spanish, italian and german immigrants, and (south asian) indians

Latin America is not just mexico you stupid fuck

Has there ever been a single Pashtun intellectual accomplishment in their entire history?

>>1540559
So Tajiks are basically persians just like in iran?

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>>1535957
Jesus christ you shitskins are balkan tier. Reminds me of /int/

>>1547368
Balkan is a peaceful, civilized utopia compared to Afghanistan, trust me.

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>>1540606
>>1540663
>>1540666
>>1540700
>>1540731
>>1540747
>>1540753
>>1540761
>>1540778
>>1540788
>>1540809
>>1540849

>>1547578
Except they're all contained in the same country, cuckaldo.

>>1547463
>Balkan is a peaceful, civilized utopia compared to Afghanistan, trust me.
I was referring to the retarded ethnic shitflinging, but you're right. I like the Balkans

>>1546231
>this objective fact doesnt fit my pol meme worldview
I bet you didnt even know drugs were the main source of income for isis and aq. Kys.

>>1547583
>failing to See the parallel
>calling someone cuck