Is the codification of Defense of the Self, Family and Property

>>1526381
>i wish a cheating wife would result in a mass murder by assault rifle
>i hope more children kill themselves playing with what they find in their parents closet
>i have the desire to see edgy rebel period teens have the ability to actually act out their corrupted dreams

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>>1526478

>being a freedom hating commie

>>1526487
>being a mob rule anarchist

>>1526500

>USA
>Switzerland
>anarchy

fucking commies

>>1526503
>USA
>Switzerland
>free ownership of modern firearms as a right

fucking anarchist

>>1526516

in switzerland you are actually required to have guns at home because every citizen must be members of the militia

fucking commies that don't know freedom

>>1526529
Funny you say that.

In Maoist China, every village had an armory of surplus WWII weapons and SKS's because every citizen must be members of the militia when the big bad gabidalists invade.

>here's an attractive women. see, what we're saying isn't totally retarded!

>>1526381
>>1526381
It's ironic that the rifle would be less defensive towards her then the... Thingie, at least she can silently ambush with that, while the muzzle flash and sound will alert any mechanized unit with that.

Guns are a cult, and the cultists associate their sacred symbol with values.

Guns are pretty useful for revolution.

t. Commie

>>1526536
I honestly don't see what's wrong with the pics statement.

>>1526550

because "self-defense" in this context is like saying communism means everyone gets the same share.

>>1526560

lol
it means nothing of the sort
the picture depicts that modern weapons shouldn't be banned and people left to defend themselves with improper tools

>>1526566

yeah... i get it. its pretty clear.

my point is although the concept seems fair, it's always used to defend the worst cases. like communism, which had horrific atrocities.

the scenario of a crazy robber storming into your house at night threatening to rape your family and stealing the thousand of dollars in money you have under the bed is a nice narrative or propaganda, i'll give you that. but in real life no situation can be moderated with the use of a gun by any regular person.

>>1526570
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408953/Texas-father-beat-Jesus-Flores-death-raping-5-year-old-daughter-NOT-face-murder-charges.html

commies and beaners can't handle freedom

>inb4 no guns

deadly force is irrelevant to which weapon

Empirically it seems to be irrelevant. How well armed the average person is has no correlation with a free society.

>>1526529
>required to do X

Wow, what freedom. Amazing. So free.

>>1526546
Can someone explain to me what "t. _____" means! I've liked for years and I still have no clue what it means.

>>1526381
>Is the codification of Defense of the Self, Family and Property and the Posetion of Modern Firearms in the Rigths of the Citizen necessary for a Free and Democratic Society?
Fucking English I Swear To God...

>>1527732
it means "Sincerely, ________" as a way to label a post as being stated by _________

>>1527749
Thanxm8

>>1526478
>I want the state to be able to commit genocide without consequence

>>1526381
We don't want to take away your guns, we want to arm the proletariat so that they can rise up.
t. Commie

>>1526516
What's wrong with anarchy, statist shill?

>>1527760
if you think hillbillies with guns and technicals could stop a state-funded and armed military unit you are daydreaming

>>1526570
Except communism is a very real example of people butchered because only the government can have guns, because they're better than you. Also when has gun rights been used to justify atrocities?

>>1527770
Then why do you want it to go further? And they can certainly help, it would be a shit load harder to pull off then if they didn't have guns.

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>>1527763
no you don't

STALIN TOOK THE GUNS
MAO TOOK THE GUNS
HITLER TOOK THE GUNS
1 7 7 6

>>1527770
People making this argument really annoys me. It's like they don't know about Afghanistan or Vietnam or literally any other example of guerella soldiers beating or lasting against much more advanced militaries. Not to mention, do you think a volunteer citizen military will carpet bomb their own cities? Do you think an air force pilot with press fire while aiming at his old neighborhood? Jesus.

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>>1526381
>be yugoslavian
>import a few pistols and rifles
>capture weapon arsenals
>win the war in 10 days
>be slovenian

americans are just a bunch of pussies to be honest

>>1526478
>think of the children
Uncovered swimming pools and household chemicals kill more kids than firearms.

>>1526529
The Swiss are not required to have guns. Swiss men are conscripted and they have an OPTION to purchase their service rifle (which is converted to semi auto) upon completing their conscription.
If you have not been conscripted for whatever reason you can file for a purchase permit (they just run a background check) and then you can buy any gun you can find in the store with no hassle.

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>>1527834
>Not to mention, do you think a volunteer citizen military will carpet bomb their own cities? Do you think an air force pilot with press fire while aiming at his old neighborhood? Jesus.
Uh... since when have standing armies ever shown the slightest hesitation destroying "rebels" (or whatever the government calls them)? History is rife with militaries rounding up their own people. Of course they would bomb cities.

>>1527863
>Uncovered swimming pools and household chemicals kill more kids than firearms.


Holy fuck, as if the massive firearm death rate wasn't enough, even swimming pool regulations are so shit in USA?

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>>1526545
>silently ambushing a squad of armed and armored soldiers with a melee weapon
スリープウェル子供

>>1527876
>swimming pool regulation
Dipshit parents are frequently charged with negligence for failure to keep their kids safe. Retards that can't keep their unsupervised children out of their pools aren't the types to obey (or bother learning about) all the legislation on the books.

>>1527885
Isn't there supposed to be a lifeguard at most pools and coupled with a good kindergarden/primary school program for swimming should ideally prevent such a massive incidence of drowning fatalities?

>>1527905
>lifeguard
Silly Europoor. People in America have enough land that many middle class folks have a private pool on their property.

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>>1527773
Well in China, it was the government, and bands of fanatical civilians *with guns* who support one dude in the government.

>>1527823
Mao gave guns to the red guards you dumbass.

>>1527834
>Vietnam

Stop with this shit please, the guerilla war in Vietnam was a spectacular failure and Vietcong got completely destroyed so much that NVA regulars had to step in.

>>1527986
Well to be fair, the NVA walked up to them an went
>You guys should totally join our conventional offensive versus a superior force.
The Vietcong almost got destroyed overnight during the tet.

>>1526381
What a free society needs is a clause that establishes the nullity of a citizen's rights while he is in the act of committing a felony, retroactive so that someone murdered while b&e'ing will not cause an innocent house owner's demise.

>>1527770
I don't know who's more retarded between the people who think their rifles will help them stop the government and the people who think the army will stop a popular revolt.

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>>1527834

>>1528051
>implying armies can't stop popular revolts

>>1528051
>people who think the army will stop a popular revolt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays%27_Rebellion#Rebellion

Of course. It is of course implied by the right to life.

You cannot be denied your right to self-preservation against lethal aggression.

>>1527770

>what is ISIS vs the Iraqi Army

you rank idiot.

>>1526570
>the scenario of a crazy robber storming into your house at night threatening to rape your family and stealing the thousand of dollars in money you have under the bed is a nice narrative or propaganda

all of those things literally happen.

the funny thing is when they take your guns when you aren't home.

>in real life no situation can be moderated with the use of a gun by any regular person

you don't know the first goddamn thing about real life.

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>>1526381
>Is the codification of Defense of the Self, Family and Property and the Posetion of Modern Firearms in the Rigths of the Citizen necessary for a Free and Democratic Society

>one country with these 'rights'
>worst gun crime in the world
>worse than third world shit holes
>more school shootings than any other nation


>IT'S A REQUIREMENT FOR A FREE SOCIETY

Kill yourself ignorant fucking idiots. The worst part about it is you fucks are worse than Christians, maybe because you are ALSO religious. The overwhelming evidence yells at you for being wrong. But all you want to to do is push harder and harder for more fucking guns.

Honestly more bizarre than ISIS. You idiots run the world, you will kill us all.

>>1527985
>>1527763

monopolization of violence =/= rights

>>1528545
Thats a shit example considering the Iraqi army literally gave up and ran away and now Daesh uses old Iraqi army gear left behind from when the army abandoned Fallujah in the first place

>>1527905

>he thinks the lifeguard will be there in time to save him

WHO NEEDS A LIFE JACKET ANYWAYS

WHAT WOULD YOU EVEN USE THAT THING FOR

DONT BOTHER TAKING PROACTIVE STEPS TO ENSURE BOTH YOUR SAFETY AND THAT OF YOUR FAMILY

JUST WAIT FOR THE AUTHORITY TO COME AND SAVE YOU SURELY THEY WONT BE TOO LATE

>>1528051

Which army?

>>1528572

>That's a shit example

special pleading

>>1528545
>ISIS
TOTALLY NOT STAFFED BY EXPERIENCED FIGHTERS FROM BOTH THE OUTSIDE IN ADDITION TO ALL THOSE ANGRY EX BAATHIST OFFICERS

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>>1528562

>the cities with the highest gun violence rates are the ones with the strictest gun control laws

you are biased

>overwhelming evidence yells at you for being wrong

Nope.

>>1528581

sure nobody could say that wasn't also true of several other major conflicts in the 20th century, a number of which happened to go the other way.

>x situation is literally impossible in a wartime scenario

Nobody intelligent assumes it can't happen, that's how complacency sets in.

>>1528587

>Strict constitutionalist
>As if legal disputes and their decisions should come down to a turn in grammar and diction

Pro-gun, but not pro-stupid.

>>1528621

>words don't mean anything

you assume much. What leads you to believe I support the Constitution of the United States of America 1789?

Supposing I didn't, even I could not dispute the concrete meaning of those words.

>>1528587
Case in point. Thanks bud.

>>1526381
Hijacking this thread to ask: what particular form of autism causes people to write with random capitals like this?

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>>1528562

>Can't deconstruct the "non-leftists are rednecks" narrative he's been handed by late night television

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism

>"Suffice it to say, by the 1990s the better part of the working class wanted nothing to do with the word liberal. What remained of the American progressive elite was left to puzzle: What happened to our coalition?

>Why did they abandon us?

>What's the matter with Kansas?

>The smug style arose to answer these questions. It provided an answer so simple and so emotionally satisfying that its success was perhaps inevitable: the theory that conservatism, and particularly the kind embraced by those out there in the country, was not a political ideology at all."

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>>1528638
>even I could not dispute the concrete meaning of those words.
Kek. It's explicitly wrong. You do not understand how semantics work and that they can be twisted to mean literally anything you want. Pick up book, Tyranny of Words is a good start.

The whole point relies on the fact that peoples which is explicitly plural, means singular. It's retarded, you are retard. Thank you for attempting to use your own ignorance as evidence to suggest you are not ignorant.

>right of militia equates to pic related
>surely not commercialism
>IT'S A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT!!!!

>you have the right to defend your life, but only by less than effective or sufficient means

SHALL

NOT

BE

INFRINGED

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>>1528656

>>1528660
>peoples
The people. To be exact.

>>1528660
>You do not understand how semantics work

You were complaining earlier about how you feel as if legal cases should not be judged according to the law cause words are oppressive, and now you want to talk about how we should pay more attention to them.

>The whole point relies on the fact that peoples which is explicitly plural, means singular.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The people, not peoples.

>they can be twisted to mean literally anything you want

Twist this.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Rights are by definition not up for debate btw.

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savage desu

>>1528676
>You were complaining earlier about how you feel as if legal cases should not be judged according to the law cause words are oppressive, and now you want to talk about how we should pay more attention to them.
Kek, no.

>The people, not peoples.
Mhm, I addressed this, The people is a group of persons, how the fuck is that individual? It's an explicit group? There is, you know, a word expliticly used for the individual PERSON.

>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the person to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

^ THAT means what you want it to, semantics work in such a way you can twist them past the original meaning, as I said earlier. That is simply what you are doing.

AND HERE IS MORE SEMANTICS FOR YOU

Specifically this part.

-

>A well regulated Militia

Here I will spam it so you understand
>A well regulated Militia
>A well regulated Militia
>A well regulated Militia
>A well regulated Militia
>A well regulated Militia

If you think anyone has a problem with this, you are wrong. If you think the current state of America and how easy it is to procure guns equates to a a well regulated Militia you are a fucking retard and there is no fucking saving you.


>SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
Not the point. You do not have a well regulated militia, you ave guns readily available to essentially anyone who wants them, that is not regulated militia, that's idiotic.

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>>1528696
>The people is a group of persons, how the fuck is that individual?

It's not, they all have the same right. I'm sorry you don't understand how you can use certain words, it doesn't mean your stupid or anything.

>You do not have a well regulated militia, you ave guns readily available to essentially anyone who wants them, that is not regulated militia, that's idiotic.

Although this is beside the point given that you think words mean whatever you want them to, what the connotation associated with the term "well regulated" at the time of it's writing has to do with the completeness of a units equipment, including weaponry.

Besides, the people do not have the right to a well regulated militia. They have the right to bear arms, that they MAY form well regulated (read well equipped) militias.

Hi, I'm not American. Just popping in to tell you that 300 year old legal documents are not magic, and shouldn't really come into a discussion of whether or not something is a good idea.

>>1528716
>I'm not American

Nobody gives a fuck about you Canada.

>>1528716
Good for you faggot, too bad the actual problem is urban blacks shooting other urban blacks over drug money

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>>1528712
>It's not, they all have the same right. I'm sorry you don't understand how you can use certain words, it doesn't mean your stupid or anything.
Kek. You cannot argue empirical facts, buddy.
>It's not, they all have the same right
Then why are you using an image which refers to the usage of people explicitly as an individual term? Using as an example for each person to have a gun, not a regulated well informed group of people who actually know what they are doing in regards to how to run and function inside a militia?

>Besides, the people do not have the right to a well regulated militia. They have the right to bear arms, that they MAY form well regulated (read well equipped) militias.

Oh look, now you are adding your own words into the constitution, I didn't know we could do that!

>Although this is beside the point given that you think words mean whatever you want them to, what the connotation associated with the term "well regulated" at the time of it's writing has to do with the completeness of a units equipment, including weaponry.

It's not besides the point at all, it's another point which proves your idiocy. Which you cannot deny.

>>1528745
>Oh look, now you are adding your own words into the constitution, I didn't know we could do that!
Have you even read the 2nd Amendment? Ever? I get that it's in an older form of English that you personally aren't familiar with, but come on dude.

>A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
It's literally right there

>the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Let me say that again, and break it down for you.

>the
>right
>of
>the
>people
Okay, so, the right belongs to the people, okay? They're the subject.


>to
>keep
>and
>bear
>arms
Okay, so, the people have a right to keep and bear arms.

>shall
>not
>be
>infringed.
And that right that the people have (that right being the right to keep and bear arms) shall not be infringed.

What exactly is not clear about this for you? He doesn't need to add anything, it's right there.

>>1528745

>posts a dictionary definition hoping it will save him from having to actually flesh out a definitive statement

sloppy work.

>Using as an example for each person to have a gun, not a regulated well informed group of people who actually know what they are doing in regards to how to run and function inside a militia?

Again, slowly this time so you understand.

The people do not have the right to belong to a regulated well informed group of people who actually know what they are doing in regards to how to run and function inside a militia, they have the right to bear arms that they may form into a group like that in addition to a plethora other purposes.

>I didn't know we could do that!

You don't even know what a constitutional amendment is, gtfo before you embarrass your position any more.

I have already called you an idiot, you're just gonna try to throw that back at me? You couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 20 yds with that literal shit pile. Get good kid.

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>>1528745
>Oh look, now you are adding your own words into the constitution, I didn't know we could do that!
He was actually explaining what the phrasing meant because languages change over time and so does grammar. You seem to enjoy acting like a hysterical screeching retard about white people owning firearms while conveniently ignoring that we don't have a firearm homicide problem, we have an urban black firearm homicide problem.

The firearm homicide rate outside of the inner cities is significantly lower.

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>>1528716

Considering the mainstay of liberal argumentation is to call conservatives dumb poopieheads and intimate that they're all christian, inbred, etc what can you expect? Liberals have been incapable of political discussion since before we were born, their strategy is to take the city center and control their precious "kultur" from within. The average liberal now gets his opinions from leftist late night TV where you are repeatedly assured that anyone who even wants a gun absolutely must be some kind of inbred Christ-loving retard who's opinion is not important. These people will then turn a corner and walk into a shop with armed guards or a concert with armed guards and not bat a fucking eyelash. They'll walk into a bank lobby where the tellers are behind bulletproof plexiglass and not ask themselves "why is this here?". They've been accepting the luxury of paid, armed defense so long they've forgotten it's even there.

I want a day where everyone who carries a firearm in the performance of their job just walks down the street together giving these spoiled commies the finger.

>>1528764
>2nd Amendment?
>A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I didn't know this said give guns to everyone so they may one day form a militia.


>Have you even read the 2nd Amendment? Ever? I get that it's in an older form of English that you personally aren't familiar with, but come on dude.

Kek, that's pretty funny, since you know. You are only using one half of a sentence and implying that's it's meaning. That's literally not how English works.

It literally comes back to the point of it being all around a well regulated militia. You cannot form a militia if you cannot acquire weapons. That is what it is saying, it's securing weapons for the creation of a militia. That's what you don't understand.

You also believe the current state of America actually has a Militia, and not just a shit tonne of guns. Do you even know what it means to run a Militia? to be apart of one? It's an army, outside of the government which keeps the govt in check, that's the purpose of a Militia. Your law has been twisted and literally everyone in your country who is ready and able for service in law and army is considered a member of the militia. But you don't have a militia so how is that possible?

See, it boils down to simple semantics and the fact people want to be able to sell what ever the fuck they want in your country, which is literally fine.

Stop the delusion though. This is simply not up for dispute, literally everyone in the world is in agreement, except the ignorant masses that are Americans.

>>1528784

You actually don't know what well regulated means.

I challenge you to define that phrase in a meaningful way, as the writers of that document clearly intended it to be defined.

>>1528766
I am done with you see my first post.

>>1528562
>Honestly more bizarre than ISIS
I honestly cannot compute your retardation.

>>1528790
>I challenge you to define that phrase in a meaningful way, as the writers of that document clearly intended it to be defined.

Not the situation you have today, that's for sure.

>>1528794

Ah, so a well regulated militia is literally anything other than the situation we have today. That is the implication of your negative definition.

>>1528813
>Ah, so a well regulated militia is literally anything other than the situation we have today. That is the implication of your negative definition.

>A well regulate militia is not readily available guns where ever you can place them

therefore

>It's literally everything else
Kay, care to explain the logical jump you made there? There have been many examples of militias over history, many of which you could take your definition from, all of which are not the situation you have today.

>>1528833
>Kay, care to explain the logical jump you made there?

You just said that a well regulated militia is simply not one specific thing, suggesting that it could just as easily be a huge number of other potential things so long as it's not that.

This is fallacitical. And you do not know what a well regulated milita is.

>an apple is not a car

is not a definition of apple.

>>1528858
>suggesting that it could just as easily be a huge number of other potential things so long as it's not that.

Are you operating under the assumption that militias throughout history are a rare thing?

>And you do not know what a well regulated
It doesn't matter if " don't know what that means, its in YOUR second amendment which you omit, because it refutes your argument.

I like how you latch onto points that are of literal no point.

>you don't know what a militia is
>therefore no one does
>therefore sell guns to everyone!
Those are your logical jumps. This is one step away from you just simply shit flinging, you have no points. All you can argue is semantics.

It went from

>Peoples
>people
>milita

You have no point, you cannot argue. All you literally said was I don't know what a militia is, I know it's not what you have, and I know I didn't write the second amendment so it's literally besides the point.

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>>1528858
>>an apple is not a car
>is not a definition of apple.

You do not have a civilian army, you have civilians with guns. Your country cha nged the law for that to literally mean militia.

Your country is the only one in the world whose definition of militia encompasses literally everyone, by legal definition. BECAUSE of the 2nd amendment.

Like, you have actually provided no actual points past the speculative arguing of semantics.

It's literal fact that meanings can be changed.

If you are American you are apart of the Militia, if you are able to serve your country, even if you don't you are apart of the militia. This has never been the case historically. Like, literally, never.

You changed the definition to suit your needs. That's literal fact.

>>1528872

>it refutes your argument

This is a statement you have made and make now on zero basis.

>its in YOUR second amendment

so you seem to assume

>you don't know what a militia is
>therefore no one does
>therefore sell guns to everyone!

Never said that, I only said that you can't even define "well regulated".

>peoples

still harping on this point again? I thought you said you were done with me.

>>1528887
>Never said that, I only said that you can't even define "well regulated".
I never said I could. History can though, that's the fucking point - which you refuse to see, as it refutes your argument. You want me to spoon feed you? How fat are you?

>>1528886

>You do not have a civilian army, you have civilians with guns.

We do not have a right to a civilian army, we have the right to bear arms.

>Your country is the only one in the world whose definition of militia encompasses literally everyone, by legal definition. BECAUSE of the 2nd amendment.

No, it only includes males aged 18 to 50. And you have yet to establish why this is an issue.

>It's literal fact that meanings can be changed.

Of course, yes can mean no and no can mean maybe and maybe can mean yes.

>This has never been the case historically. Like, literally, never.

American exceptionalism isn't just a dank meme you know.

>>1528887
If you are capable of >>1528587 how can you not define 'well-regulated', at least how do you justify it meaning what is happening in America today?

>>1528895

>History can define the term"well regulated" for me and that means you're wrong!!

kek

>>1528900

>how can you not define 'well-regulated'

I can and have. It essentially means properly equipped and capable of sustained martial action.

>>1528899
(you)

>>1528906
>Americans are capable of taking militia actions
>simply because they all have guns
That's not how it works man, training is usually needed.

In most historical militias the people who served still had some form of training, they didn't just have guns.

No applying for a gun license is not training.

Let's not even get started on the fact that that is literally your defintion, not the defintion.

Done, cya, dunno why I kept going.

Proper suicide bomber levels of ignorance.

>>1528833
Back to lefty/pol/ retard. Well regulated meant well equipped at that point in time.

>>1528953
>Well regulated meant well equipped at that point in time.
Therein lies the fucking point you mong.

Since then, the definition of militia has been twisted.

>now = then
That's a fallacy, there it is, you think the world works the same it did 300 years ago, that's actual literal idiocy, I was using hyperbole earlier to insult you, but now it's actually accurate and proven.

Thank you. I can stp out happy.

>>1528916

I'd be willing to bet that the average gun owning American is at least as well or better trained or familiar with their firearms than their local police force, though maybe not so much in the cities.

That said, simple proficiency is not training for warfare.

Underestimation is a beginners blunder, no big deal.

>>1528953

>Well regulated meant well equipped at that point in time.

not quite so precisely, but closer to that than it is now for sure.

>>1526381

Supporting and engineering geonomes towards phenotypes that support a "defense of self, family, and property" will and is going to be far more effective than any laws.

>>1526478
>i hope more children kill themselves playing with what they find in their parents closet

Everyone in my family had guns lying around in reach of the children yet none of us ever played with them because, imagine this, we were actually disciplined and taught that they're not fucking toys.

>>1529005

some children are retarded though

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>>1527770

>>1529013
Good

Thin out the genepool

>>1527764
>anarchic society
>I decide to form a militia
>I enforce my will under the treat of violence
>Become warlord
>no longer anarchy

America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot a tyranical IRS agent in self-defense

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>>1529014
>The aim of the tyrant is to control, not to kill.
In case you haven't noticed, we have had more than one tyrant willing to off and/or exile more than half their nation's population, just to stay in power.

That's the thing "muh tanks and jets" people tend to forget though... You don't need to attack the body of the snake, only its head. ...and said heads are much less apt to do crazy shit when they know that, if they do, they, their entire extended family, and all their friends and business associates, and all their friends and relatives, might have to live in underground bunkers for the rest of their lives.

Thus, you don't need assault weapons, or rocket launchers, or tanks and airplanes... All you need for a reliable revolution, is a good supply of sniper rifles.

(At least until the elite move themselves into orbiting space habitats.)

>>1529005
>works on my machine!

>>1528886
>all able bodied civilians

So 2% of the population?

>>1526381
No it's not necessary but it isn't a bad thing either. I think given the current state of weapon technology a guarantee of armed citzenry isn't very useful but it's not really a major problem either.

>>1528784

Militia

1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service

t. Merriam Webster

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>all these yuropoors that hate freedom

christopher loyd is 2% of the population

>>1527863
>Uncovered swimming pools and household chemicals kill more kids than firearms.
Sounds bourgeois as fuck. Ban or regulate pools America.

I'm not american and I'm always ending defending the ownership of firearms to people around me.
The point of the amendment wasn't to give out muskets to people, it was to let the citizens be at the same level of firepower as the soldiers of their nation, on the slight chances that one day one man would grab power for himself and destroy every values the country they fought for was built on.
I do however think that there's a few problems with the way it actually works. Like the fact that there's no mandatory background check, because it would still allow for the government to determine what "passes" the background check, and what doesn't, undermining the very core of the amendment, but at the same time its absence lets loonies have access to offensive weapons. Or the fact that the founding fathers didn't anticipate the development of ghettos filled with crack fiends shooting at each other with firearms stolen from the houses of upstanding citizens and endangering everyone, even good citizens sticked in the slums. Or that the american police is constantly under the threat of having a gun pulled on them even at a road block checkpoint, which makes them afraid and jumpy, hence having a culture of suspicion between the police and the citizens they're supposed to protect.

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>>1530308
Actually, our pools are pretty heavily regulated. (In some municipalities, more than our firearms) ...and even banned in a few cities. (Unlike our firearms.)

give muskets to hitler

give hitler muskets

give hitler to muskets

No give him nukes
and floppy disks

>>1530322
I do wish they'd prosecute the ever living fuck out of people who let their guns get stolen by niggers. I mean, if they wrecked or stole your whole gun safe, and you reported it right away, fine - but most of this shit happens because some idiot left a gun on his bedstand when he left the house, or his kid sold it for drugs, and other such irresponsible nonsense.

But alas, slippery slope.

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>>1530340
>>1530337
>>1530336
>>1530335
>>1530327
>>1530306

much funny very lol

>>1530352

bu...but Poland is full of jews

>Europoors fail to see the point of owning guns
>entire European history 19th and 20th centuries consist of totalitarian dictatorships oppressing the general population of their countries
>this never happened in America
>Europoors can't figure out why
loving
every
laugh

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>>1530360

the same applies to South America
in fact
the USA might have become a dictatorship if the South didn't rise up against Lincoln's tyranny

>>1530360
>>this never happened in America
:^)

>>1526381
Not at all. In France, all weapons are forbidden to carry. You can posess them for sport or hunting, but carrying them in any other situation will make you arrested. Police is here to protect you.

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>>1530464
>Police is here to protect you.

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>>1530464
>Police is here to protect you.

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>>1530464


you get the point

>>1526478
And here's the real reason behind your agenda:

>I'm afraid that my bodyguards won't notice person who wants to assassinate me for my vile actions which stripped people out of their money and dignity due to open gun rights. I shouldn't be held responsible for my actions because I can afford good lawyers.

>>1530360
Majority of Europe started to actively ban gun in 50's or so.

France had very open gun rights for quite a long time and between 1800 and 1900 they've had not one, not two but three revolutions. Which is good and I agree with the fact that people should own guns but you don't understand the point of it.

>>1530527

>implying the revolutions were because of guns
Napoleon III resigned because he lost the war

>>1526381
Yes, especially self-defence. While guns aren't as much needed in a homogenous society, I don't see why a law-abiding citizen shouldn't have the right to purchase one if he/she wants to.

>>1526381
I don't get people who bring up gun crime as an argument, what matters is the total crime rate, and it has already been proven that the higher capita of guns for citizens, the less crime there will be, and the less tyrannical and corrupt will the nation be

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>guns are legal
>foreskins and kinder eggs are not

To be honest, I think the whole "crippling income inequality and permanent racial underclass" thing is the real issue with gun violence in the U.S.

Yes, easy access to firearms probably makes it worse, but liberal gun laws in and of themselves aren't to blame.

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>>1526381
For fuck's sake, can you assholes go back to /k/? There's a reason why I dont come there anymore: you cunts turn it into polshit alongside having meme knowledge on premodern weaponry.

And no, armed bubbas have never successful won a guerilla war. Successful revolutions tend to involve almost every member of society, from the proliest prole, to some of the upper crust, and lastly, members of the military. Those that are truly grassroots end up like those failed commie-rebellions turned druglords in Latin America.

>>1527834
Yeah but by that same logic, peaceful protest ( a la India) should work just as well.

>>1530592
>I don't see why a law-abiding citizen shouldn't have the right to purchase one if he/she wants to.

You understand this is literally not the case? Like this is not even an issue? Almost all nations have guns laws which allow people to have a gun, do they chose to want one.

This is not the point.

The point is you can go into fucking walmart and buy a selection of AR15 guns and parts (http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/ar15-m16) even if you are a registered terriorst, or at least suspected.

It's got nothing to do with getting rid of guns, it's never been about that. I mean initial regulation would mean getting rid of a shit tonne of guns which don't need to be out there.

But you will always be able to get a gun, should you prove you are worthy to hold one.

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>>1531272
>le /pol/ boogeyman

Fuck off faggot

>>1533416
>even if you are a registered terriorst, or at least suspected.
"registered terrorists" are usually in jails, dead, or somewhere not in America, anon.

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>>1533580
Ya, pick that one singular point to latch onto.

Granted I did mean the FBI watch list, the point remains. I mean your govt kicks up a huge stink about Valve and gambling skins online, it's literal news to me that there is actual legal unregulated sale of weapons, outside of licensed stores.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

That's just ,my ignorance, but whole fuck - it's a literal legal black market.

>>1533601
>it's a literal legal black mark
so its not a black market at all.
you don't need to be a licensed car dealer to sell cars, why should you need a license to sell guns?

>>1533612
>you don't need to be a licensed car dealer to sell cars, why should you need a license to sell guns?
>american logic

>it's okay to sell unlicensed transportation
therefore
>it's okay to sell weapons made to kill

>inb4 cars can kill too
Yeah sure, cars are made specifically to kill other human beings/life forms. That's their purpose.

Fuck off.

>so its not a black market at all.

It's better, it's America's legal version, anyone can buy a gun and no one even knows who it was or what gun he bought, fuck yeah.
MURICA

I am actually glad I clicked on this thread again and learnt something which is so utterly retarded it will now be at the forefront of all my anti-gun-nut arguments.

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>>1526381
I'd say yes.
Not even an American btw

>>1533624
what's wrong with killing?
a criminal tries robbing me of property or life, I shoot them dead.
bang, a good kill.
you can also kill invasive species such as wild hog, so its good for the environmet too.
don't forget the savings from bagging a few deer/bird/other edible wildlife and not having to buy food from the factory farm jews.

>>1533648
Again, as said multiple fucking times. YOu just don't seem to understand? In all these other nations in the world you can get guns, that's not a fucking issue.

Can you walk down the road to a fucking Gun SHow, purchase some heavy artillery, ammo and the like and never be known by the govt?

Fuck no.

>>1526381
I think it's fine for people to have guns in a secular socialist society where there are no needy, no desperation, no religion fanatics, there's access to mental healthcare, etc.

>>1533652
>purchase some heavy artillery, ammo and the like and never be known by the govt?
funnily enough, in Canada you can buy a PTRD or Boys antitank rifle and ammo, and have the government be completely unaware, due to its non restricted status, and the abolition of the LGR.

>>1533661
More proof that American culture simply is not ready for the liberties it wants.

>>1533670
nah, more proof that people who make gun laws are just soccermoms who don't understand a single thing about what they're trying to regulate.

>>1533675
>nah, more proof that people who make gun laws are just soccermoms who don't understand a single thing about what they're trying to regulate.
Kek, care to explain that logic?

>it works there
>therefore it should work here
>because it's physically close
That logic simply does not compute.

You fools will twist anything to keep your egos and ignorance in tact.

>>1533680
>>it works there
nigger i live there
it doesn't stop criminals from getting restricted weapons at all
the list of banned weapons is to put it simply, insane.
>can't even own a 2 shot .22LR derringer
>can own a Vz.58
>can't own a prototype west german caseless rifle
>can own a semiautomatic .50BMG antimaterial rifle
and the crime level has barely been affected compared to the preban era.

>>1533680
Err, you do know that Americans can buy .50 BMG rifles and the like without any paperwork, right? The only reason the Boys anti-tank rifle is more difficult to get (requires an NFA stamp) is because it's .51 caliber and the limit is .50 cal. There's no real difference in destructive power.
Before the 1968 GCA it was legal to purchase 20mm anti tank rifles and shit with no paperwork at all.

The right to keep and bear arms came about in a world entirely unlike our own. It was a world without police. It was a world in which irregulars provided their own arms for war. It was a world where lawlessness prevailed on a level that cannot be easily comprehended by moderns.

Changes in legal, institutional, and social norms have mitigated the need for armed self defense. The right, which was perfectly natural in 1689 or 1791 is almost perfectly superfluous in modern society, which is altogether more civilized and safe than those that preceded it.

>>1533694
>it doesn't stop criminals from getting restricted weapons at all
>the list of banned weapons is to put it simply, insane.

Yes, yes it does.
t. Australian.

>and the crime level has barely been affected compared to the preban era.

Well that can be argued they didn't need regulation, as you know they are obviously different people culturally and ideologically, as you are well aware with all the stereotypes surrounding canadians and americans. This is still literally no argument against regulation in America.

Again this logic does not follow.

>>1533601
>terrorist watch list
You are a complete moron if you think this should stop people from buying guns. There is no judicial oversight at all when it comes to this shit. You can end up on a terror watch list just because you're related to some asshole that tried to do something.
Go read the Cliff's notes for the Snowden leaks. People who frequent Linux forums were considered "potential extremists."

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>>1533719
>being a terrorist shouldn't stop you from buying guns
hehehe

>>1533706
rural areas still exist, anon
you know, places where a cop will take half an hour to get to you.

>>1533737
nice job avoiding his fucking point

>>1533737

They are suspects, not criminals.

Its as if the government suspected you of being a drug abuser, so they single you out and prohibit you from buying cough drops without providing you with notice or giving you a right to defend yourself or appeal.

>>1533748
>>1533747
>this is a problem outside of terrorists buy guns
>terrorist watch list should not exist
Really do not get what you guys are trying to say? Sure the list needs work and accuracy needs to be checked.

To say being a suspected terrorist shouldn't stop you from buying guns is maybe one of the dumbest things I've ever read here, and I've been here a while.

>>1528646
Jesus assfucking Christ, what a load of horseshit. Detroit as hardly any regulation on gun ownership.

>>1528782
>They're stupid because they all us names so we should call them pussies and be rude that'll show 'em amirite bois?

>>1533752
>To say being a suspected terrorist shouldn't stop you from buying guns is maybe one of the dumbest things I've ever read here, and I've been here a while.
Key word is "suspected." You can be suspected of anything. Until there's some due process, then you shouldn't have your rights stripped from you.
Taking away someone's rights because they *might* be a bad guy is some banana republic tier shit.

>>1533745

The number of innocents saved by the use of civilian firearms is likely dwarfed by the number of innocents killed because of the improved lethality of firearms as compared to other types of arms.

>>1533752

Assuming that there is a legal right to keep and bear arms, and there is unquestionably such a right in many states, that right cannot be removed without due process of law.

>>1533787
This is still literally besides the point and are simply arguing what it means to be suspected terrorists and you cannot know that in the current situation.

Not the actual point that being a suspected terrorist you are still able to buy arms.

You have effectively put a value on everyone's life who died by the hands of the recent shooting by a suspected terrorist who was still able to purchase arms.

That value being the price of the gun he legally bought, as it was his 'right'.

You are simply wrong. But you can't see it, and many more civilians will get slaughtered at movies, at schools, at public events, very sad.

>>1533825
>Not the actual point that being a suspected terrorist you are still able to buy arms.
Yep. That's because they have not had their rights stripped from them through due process. If the feds believe that someone is a legitimate threat, then they should gather evidence and arrest them like they do with every other criminal.
Making shortcuts to take away rights is how you get shit like the Patriot act.

>>1533832
>then they should gather evidence and arrest them like they do with every other criminal.
When a suspected terrorist applies for a gun the FBI is duly noted, as is what happened with this most recent case.

>Making shortcuts to take away rights is how you get shit like the Patriot act.
Fuck off with this right bullshit, nowhere else in the rest of the world does this shit exist, funny cause no where in the rest of the world are schools, movies and events being shot up by disgruntled youths with unprecedented access to weapons of mass murder.

Please. Just don't post again, I'm done. You cunts just REFUSE to see the light. Regulation = literally no guns except baddies

Fuck off.

>>1533846
>Fuck off with this right bullshit, nowhere else in the rest of the world does this shit exist
Sure thing, bud. Nobody else in the world has the right to due process of law. Whatever you say.

> I'm done
Have a nice night.

>>1533846
>funny cause no where in the rest of the world are schools, movies and events being shot up by disgruntled youths with unprecedented access to weapons of mass murder
yeah, the french are pretty unique

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>>1533798
>The number of innocents saved by the use of civilian firearms is likely dwarfed by the number of innocents killed because of the improved lethality of firearms as compared to other types of arms.

>>1533713
>Yes, yes it does.
>t. Australian.
oh yeah, banning all those self loading rifles sure stopped biker gangs from procuring Luty's and MAC-11's,

>>1533858

In 2012 the FBI reports 259 justifiable homicides with firearms while it reports 8,342 criminal homicides with firearms. If only 5% of those deaths could have been averted, either by the high survival rate of knife and fist crime or the lessened propensity for assault with less powerful weapons, then on balance we would do better with fewer firearms.

>>1533868
>oh yeah, banning all those self loading rifles sure stopped biker gangs from procuring Luty's and MAC-11's,

Oh yeah man, please explain how those bikies use those weapons to kill anyone but other bikies.

>>1533874
If only there were more laws to stop law-breakers from using guns illegally...

Especially in the number one country with the most firearms per capita...

Think of the children...

>>1533957

If only the laws were more effective.

>>1526381
my penis is exercising its right to erect rn

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How does it make you idiots feel that these events are literally the only times in recent American history anyone actually exercised their right to bear arms against a government oppressing them.

I bet that's not how you look at this event.

It's also funny that you have a shit tonne of guns specifically to stop these events, where was your civilian militia stopping this man?

Land of cowards, tiny dicks and big guns.

>>1527732
>>1527749
>>1527758

This guy just barely got it right, but it's actually shorthand for "regards", in either Finnish or Poland.

>>1534056

Virginia (1776): That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Pennsylvania: (1776): That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power.

North Carolina (1776): "That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."


Literally never was the militia authorized to act without the sanction of the civil power. The state constitutions made this explicit at the time of the revolution.

>>1534075
>Literally never was the militia authorized to act without the sanction of the civil power. The state constitutions made this explicit at the time of the revolution.

You cunts are so idiotic and refuse to believe that literally anything is up for interpretation as our language is so wishy washy.

You literally just gave 50 versions of something which is explicit.

>civil power
How are black people going to be sancuting to revolt when whites are slaughtering them? And the Whites have the power? They have a right to fight their oppressors do they not? With guns as outlined in your second amendment?

Again, I thought you have a lot of guns in your country (I mean Trump literally said Paris would be different had they had guns) where were all your armed civilians defending the Police? Like you imply would happen and is the reason why you all have guns, when has this EVER happened?

>>1534084

I'm just saying that the idea that the right to bear arms exists as a protection against any any all government is plainly false. During the revolution when the right to revolution was invoked against England, the state government explicitly state that the militia operates legitimately only under the civil authority.

>>1534095
>I'm just saying that the idea that the right to bear arms exists as a protection against any any all government is plainly false.

That's literally the only reason why it exists, that's what your country does, it twists and morphs.

It NO LONGER means that is what you mean, which is even more retarded.

> the state government explicitly state that the militia operates legitimately only under the civil authority.
This obviously defeats the point when a militia can exist to defend itself from the government, what you are saying only works as the govt isn't currently physically oppressing (even though people do).

Obviously if a militia were to form in this situation and they overthrow the govt it will not be illegal, how is that even an argument?

You understand how your argument isn't really logical? Also do you understand that by law if you are able for service, you are literally apart of the American Militia.

You are legally able to be conscripted, at any time.

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>>1528562
At least if america does get invaded like the founding fathers originally thought was going to possibly happen from the british or a potential other foe then at least our citizens are prepared for it and will hopefully be able to fight back along side our army.

The problem is we have become our own worst enemy. We will always find an enemy.

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>>1534109
>citizens are prepared for it and will hopefully be able to fight back along side our army.

You cannot honestly believe that do you? YOur population is mainly fat and obese.

Objectively wrong. They simply cannot be prepared to defend themselves.

>>1534108
>You are legally able to be conscripted, at any time.

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>>1534117
>Being fat and obese means they can't lift a finger to pull a trigger which makes it so easy to kill someone with a gun which is the whole point of one
Not even a gun fag but what makes fat and obese people ineffective with guns?

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ITT

>>1534056
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

>>1534496

based

>>1534619
Don't forget that spate of native american standoffs with the feds during the 70's and 80's.

>>1534624

meh

feds are shit

>>1534619
I'm surprised nobody but the black guy died.

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>>1527770
>the government is overpowered so we should disarm ourselves because resistance is futile

Fucking hell, gun grabbers are literally straight outta 1984.

>>1526478
>i wish a cheating wife would result in a mass murder by assault rifle
Lets say you remove the weapon. Will this enraged husband not kill her by other means?
>i hope more children kill themselves playing with what they find in their parents closet
Those same children are at risk of drinking bleach from under the sink. It is the responsibility of the parent to educate their children on the dangers in the home and if they dont the death of the child is something others around them must learn from. Even if you remove the majority of harmful things your child can still stick a fork in the electric socket if you dont teach them yourself not to and the reasons why.
>i have the desire to see edgy rebel period teens have the ability to actually act out their corrupted dreams
You are an old woman who just finished watching CNN aren't you? Remove the firearm now the individual has to find another way to harm. I wonder if he could learn to make a firearm on google or maybe napalm bombs on youtube! Maybe he can just mix some styrofoam and gasoline into a bottle with a burning rag coming out of it. Punishing the rest of the country for shooters does not stop violence just because you want it to be so. It might stop the crying suicidal teen from fumbling rounds out someone but not anyone who wants to actually do harm.
>inb4 who looks up how to create weapons online!
Every kid in my school googled shit like this for bullshit reasons and fun.

How can people argue that things like prohibition and the drug war didn't work and then in the same sentence say that there should be gun control? Isn't this completely contradictory?

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>>1528562
>murder is ok unless they use guns

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>>1534153
>Not even a gun fag but what makes fat and obese people ineffective with guns?
You understand how fitness works, right? Look at all the obesity in pic related.

74% of your country is overweight and 35% is obese. Sure you may be able to use guns, could you maneuver, at all on the battlefield?


HAHAHAHAH, you would be the most static infantry that would get flanked and slaughtered simply because you're too fat to move yourself.

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>>1536216
>it's okay to slaughter movie goers
>it's okay to slaughter police
>it's okay to slaughter children
>it's okay to slaughter athletes
>it's okay to slaughter school goers

>all because we have the right to

>>1536256
>>1528562
this post only mentions gun-violence and fails to mention non gun-violence

>>1536256
you don't have the right to murder people
you just have the right to bear arms
considering there's something like 10 firearms for every household in America, 8,000 deaths out of a pop of 300 million is literally nothing

tl;dr the tree of freedom gotta be litterd with the blood of patriots etc, etc

>>1536307
>this post only mentions gun-violence and fails to mention non gun-violence
And? Are you seriously, SERIOUSLY trying to imply the massive amount of guns available and the ease of access to said guns is no factor in the amount of gun crime in your nation?

>inb4 correlation doesn't imply causation

>>1536379
>you don't have the right to murder people
Where did I say murder is okay? xD

And no, you do not have the right to bear arms. You have the right as a group to form a militia.
>using semantics to twist and morph your meaning
>not knowing this is the problems with semantics
>literally why there are 50 denominations of religions revolving around the same book
>interpretations

>GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ
>BANG BANG BANG
>HAHAHAH LOUD
Fuck.

>>1536394
>You dont have the right bear arms
>"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
Have you read the constitution, mr. Trump?
Also, wheres your information regarding as to whether the availability of arms has actually decreased crime or not?
>Not an American
No excuse.

>>1536394
>gun crime

Why precisely not just measure crime?

If somebody was murdered with something less dangerous, would they be less dead?

>hint: It's because gun control doesn't effect crime rates

>>1536410
Because this argument is about your ease of acess to guns, so guns are the only thing that need apply? No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.

regulating guns stops people from shooting up schools and movies your moron. Although your nation is probably too far gone, may aswell flood more guns and allow everyone to simply kill everyone.

>>1536394
>Where did I say murder is okay? xD
right here>>1536256
fuck, why do I even bother with australians

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>>1536394
>guncrime is the spawn of satan but regular crime is a-ok

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>>1536405
>Have you read the constitution, mr. Trump?
Kek, you literally left out the first part. Which gives the whole reasoning to the part you are linking. You understand THE WHOLE sentence is ONE IDEA, they are not separate ideas. That's simply not how a comma works. You have literally 0 reading comprehension, why the fuck are you trying to argue semantics?

Are you actually that ignorant in how English works? Do you understand how commas function? Are you actually retarded? Do they teach you English at school? The point it is making is to allow for the creation of a militia, so the actual civilians can defend themselves - from say a tyrannical government. No one can infringe on their right to bear arms, which is fine, pretty sure there isn't a nation out there where it is illegal to own any form of weapon.

But no one is forming a Militia (apart from literally your whole population, by law, being apart of the militia), it's not needed anymore, and this is also leaving out the 'well regulated' part, which you know, could be semantically twisted to mean gun regulation.

>>1536422
You know how green texting works? Those are your implications, newfag. Just like you I said it;s okay to murder people.

heheheh xD

>>1536446
search the militia act of 1903

>>1536420
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.

So what exactly are you advocating.

>sure, this won't make us safer, but let's throw a bunch of people in prison for the fun of it

>>1536453
greentexting is used to quote a passage from a text so you can respond to it, not whatever ebin >implying memery you think its for.

>>1536463
We have been through this.

>>1534080
>>1534084
>>1534108

>legally pathing around the second amendment
>this is okay but regulation is not

>>1536477
>greentexting is used to quote a passage from a text so you can respond to it, not whatever ebin >implying memery you think its for.
Holy shit, leave now.

>>1536476
>So what exactly are you advocating.
Um, I dunno. Less school shootings? Less shootings in cinemas? Less all around civilians slaughter and suicide?

But that's a problem with Americans right? Not their gun regulation and lack thereof? There is something inside of every American that just makes them want to kill, right?

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>>1536446
>Butthurt Aussie detected
Lel, your origional statement left out the entire second half as well.
>"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Ill break it down for you commie.
>A well regulated militia, cause its important
>And the right of the people to keep and bear arms
>Shall'nt be infringed
Separate items in a list.

>>1536479
my bad

>>1526381

Those crazy Americans living in caravans with guns scare me. :(

>>1536486
>Less school shootings? Less shootings in cinemas?

Nonissues and statistical anomalies that seem like they're happening constantly because the media whores it for weeks anytime it happens.

>>1536486
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.

Aren't there laws against shooting people?

>>1536497
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Wow

A sentence is not a list. This is a list

One item,
Two items,
three items,
more.

So you didn't actually go to school, did you?

>>1536486
>Less school shootings? Less shootings in cinemas? Less all around civilians slaughter and suicide?
regulate the news corporations first

>>1536504
>he doesn't know what a declaratory clause is
>he doesn't know that the SCOTUS went over this

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How does it make gun grabbers feel to know that gun control will never happen? Sandy Hook was the greatest weapon you'll ever get and even that wasn't enough. If literally muh chilluns: the shoah didn't do it, nothing will.

>>1536504
The United states is better than Australia, the UK and New Zealand (Canada's ok).
Have an example

>>1536503
People don't follow the law, people who have an ease of access to weapons of murder are more likely to murder people than those who have to try and go into the criminal underworld in order to get a gun

It's not even a secret

Someone who has to look for a gun illegally is much more less likely to shoot up somewhere and end himself then someone who can just go to a gun show and no questions ask leave with an m16. As it's simply much harder to get a gun. In Australia the cost of a pistol is about a thousand dollars more on average than a m16 in America. That's a black market pistol vs a m16 bought online.

>>1536504
does not matter anyway beacuse the people is the militia

>>1536522
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.
>No one has ever argued regulating gun stops crimes.


Also

>he thinks you can legally buy an M16 in America without a tax stamp, the permission of local, state and federal authorities and at least 15 grand
>he admitted that his policy wouldn't keep people safe, but he wants to throw people in jail because of his feelings

>>1536509
a "declarative clause" is still not a list. It's a statement, and literally says what I am saying, that both Militia and right to bear arms are inseparable, they are the same point. You cannot separate them like you are trying to do.

>>1536516
That's not a list? Holy shit this is actually hilarious.

>gun advocates do not know what lists are
>gun advocates do not know how to use commas
>all to keep their ignorance in tact

>>1536533
Let's try this.

>a nutritious breakfast being essential to the beginning of a good day, the right to scrambled eggs shall not be infringed

Again, this isn't coming out of my pooper, this is what the Federalist papers, the Militia Act, and two Supreme Court decisions explicitly state.

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little bit before you jump to an opinion.

>>1536529
>>he thinks you can legally buy an M16 in America without a tax stamp, the permission of local, state and federal authorities and at least 15 grand

hehehehe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

You don't need to tell anyone if you go to a gun show. Or purchase online.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/576939342
$1450

>>1536541
That is still, literally, not a list.

>Again, this isn't coming out of my pooper, this is what the Federalist papers, the Militia Act, and two Supreme Court decisions explicitly state.

This is literally pointless, you government has simply legally circumvented the second amendment already, yet regulation is not okay? How are you that idiotic?

>>1536543
>post sample machine gun
You DO know what this means right?

>>1536553
Mhm, it's still a Machine gun purchasable without legally required background check (although that seller does a private check).

It's still an m16.

>>1536543
>he thinks there's such a thing as private transfers for NFA items
>he posted a fucking NFA post sample that civilians in the US can't legally own

Nigga, do you think I would be wasting my time on this pisshole if I could buy a full fun Mk 18 off of the internet?

I wouldn't, I'd be working 18 hours a day at a hedge fund or something, so I can afford to shoot ten rounds of 5.56 a second every second of spare time I have.

>>1536547
>I'm a better legal authority than the Supreme Court
>or congress
>or the people who actually wrote the laws

I bet you think "militia" is a reference to standing military organization, and the reference to a free state is just there for decoration.

Get gud at constitutional law scrub.

>>1536559
No, it means that it's a sample that only people who manufacture, import, or sell machine guns can legally possess.

Note that they can't own it, so if they leave the industry, the guns are confiscated and destroyed.

Also, it's a violation of federal law to get a SOT to collect guns, and there are volume requirements for sales in order to keep a license.

Those samples literally only exist so that dealers can show them to police departments.

>>1536559
>Mhm, it's still a Machine gun purchasable without legally required background check
No.
http://rkmerting.com/pre-and-post-dealer-samples/

>>1536563
>I bet you think "militia" is a reference to standing military organization, and the reference to a free state is just there for decoration.
>Get gud at constitutional law scrub.
hehehehehe we have been through this too.

You are literally a part of the militia, by definition able to be conscripted at any time. Like if you read the thread, it';s been touched on. Many times. I won't link you the specific post, I will allow you to read the thread (the people using that argument stopped posting, as it doesn't logically follow)

>it's okay because since it was written people have changed what it means
>DONT TAKE AWAY MUH GUNZ

xD

>>1536563
I left for dinner and this happens
Now where did I leave off? Hmmm...
Oh thats right
>>1536547
Youre a faggot
I think im done here

>>1536569
>Those samples literally only exist so that dealers can show them to police departments.
hehehehe that's why they are for sale online, right?

>No, it means that it's a sample that only people who manufacture, import, or sell machine guns can legally possess.

Funny, because your law literally states otherwise. Only licensed sellers have to abide by these laws. Unlicensed sellers can do whatever the fuck they want.

See >>1533737

I mean there have been many, many attempts to close this loophole - everyone failed.

>>1536573
>>1536576
>You are literally a part of the militia

You are correct. This is why I have the right to bear arms. Because if the able bodied men were not well armed, we would no longer be secure as a free state.

>I haven't read the federalist papers, the poster

>>1536585
>hehehehe that's why they are for sale online, right?
Cops use the internet too, numbnuts.
>Unlicensed sellers can do whatever the fuck they want
Except own post sample machine guns.

>>1536571
you do not even understand your law, I have said this multiple fucking times.

If you aren't a licensed seller, you are not required to abide by the laws although you can still fucking sell guns.

It's called the gun show loop-hole.

Educate yourself, moron. I am not refuting what it means to be a pre-ban machine gun. You can still fucking sell them online and at gun shows, completely legally.

>>1536585
>hehehehe that's why they are for sale online, right?

You know Canada has machine guns for sale online too.

Iran has them, but I'm not sure the website is still up.

NFA law is serious shit. You're talking "borrow a gun from a friend, it slamfires at the range, and you go to federal prison for constructing a machine gun" serious.

>he's trying to argue about gun laws when he has no idea what the National Firearms Act or the Hughes Amendment are

>>1536590
>Cops use the internet too, numbnuts.
Read your fucking law. Online sales and gun shows are literally outside the realm of licensing.

It cannot be refuted, it's literally fact.

>>1536595
>>1536600
repeating something wrong over and over does not mean you are right

>>1536596
>You know Canada has machine guns for sale online too.
>Iran has them, but I'm not sure the website is still up.

mmmm, funny how both those nations still have lower gun crime rate than America. even fucking Iran. It's not a fucking argument, cultures and peoples are obviously different. We are not arguing the world needs regulated guns, just Murica.

>>1536595
>You can still fucking sell them online and at gun shows, completely legally

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-9/download

>he lost an argument so he's trying to play it off as trolling
>he thinks I haven't personally looked for every loophole I could possibly find to get me some full fun goodness
>he mistook the background check requirements for title one firearms for the transfer requirements for NFA firearms
>he thinks I haven't given serious thought to opening up a nuclear power plant, because the NFA has exceptions for the owners of nuclear power plants

>>1536600
On the off chance you aren't trolling, the gun show loophole refers to the fact that people who don't sell guns for a living don't have to do the background check or record keeping that a professional gun seller does.

This does not apply to NFA items, which are protected by professional dog killers that bathe in the blood of children.

>>1536604
I am not wrong though.

Here, I will link you directly to the wiki so you don't have to move your fat fingers and click a button.

>Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, and private sale exemption are political terms in the United States referring to sales of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market".[1] The term refers to the concept that a loophole in federal law exists, under which "[a]ny person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms"

>Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, whether at a gun show or other venue. They also are not required to record the sale, or ask for identification. This requirement is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders who are required to record all sales and perform background checks on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders and FFLs are not issued to persons that only sell firearms at gun shows.[nb 1]

>Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, whether at a gun show or other venue. They also are not required to record the sale, or ask for identification.
>Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, whether at a gun show or other venue. They also are not required to record the sale, or ask for identification.

Only if you are a licensed dealer do you have to abide by federal law, this is not my speculation. It's your literal laws which you can research yourself here.

>>1536608
>https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-9/download

You understand you can legally sell guns without being a licensed seller, right?

Like you are correct, but you are forgetting you do not need to be licensed to sell guns, that's the loophole, which you refuse to see?

>>1536617
>as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms"

That kind of torpedoes the whole "immune from the law" thing doesn't it?

>>1536623
>You understand you can legally sell guns without being a licensed seller, right?
I should rephrase that.

You can buy licensed guns as an unlicensed man/woman no questions asked. Do you even need a black market.

Even fucking worse.

>>1536600
No theyre not. A firearm bought online needs to go through a dealer first, who will then do the appropriate checks to make sure its within state regulations. Then you actually have to show up and pick it up, where you take a background check, possibly show your license (state depending), and pay.
Also, if its an FFL purchase (aka automatic), then apparent from costing tons more, youll have to get an auto weapons permit, see
>http://www.class3weaponslicense.com/197/automatic-weapons-permit

>>1536625
Well no, since you know, they are not required to ask any questions.

If the seller does, good on him. He is not required to though.

>>1536630
You can research this yourself.

>The fundamental flaw in the gun show loophole proposal is its failure to address the great majority of private-party sales, which occur at other locations and increasingly over the Internet at sites where any non-prohibited person can list firearms for sale and buyers can search for private-party sellers.

You are flat out wrong and just making a fool of yourself.

>>1536623
What I'm telling you is that the National Firearm Act bans any transfer of NFA items to a civilian without a tax stamp.

Also, I do this for fun. Like, this is mostly about keeping my WPM up at this point. If you wanna make me mad you're going to need to try harder.

>Legal possession of an NFA firearm by an individual requires transfer of registration within the NFA registry. An individual owner does not need to be an NFA dealer to buy Title II. The sale and purchase of NFA is, however, taxed and regulated, as follows:
>All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax.[22] The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.

Also, the registry for machine guns was closed in 1986, so you can't add any new ones to the registry. The going price for an M16 that was registered before 1986 is in the 15-20 grand mark.

I wish you were right, I honestly do. America would be so much better.

>>1536638
That's great, but unless you physically hand the gun to someone, it has to go through an FFL.

You can buy guns on the internet, but by law they have to be transferred through a licensed dealer who does the background check.

People have built 80% lowers that require you to put them in a bench vise and drill them out specifically to get around this law.

>>1536638
Legally if you buy a rifle over the internet, it has to go through FFL. Buying one over the internet and then handing it to them is in itself a crime.

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>>1536638
You are talking to people who actually live in America and have to deal with these laws, or else they face 20 years in buttfuck federal.

>>1526478
Who are you quoting?

>>1536657
It makes me sad.

I had to find three forms of ID to get my PSA Mid-length.

If he was right, I could have gotten an M60 by mail order for 14.95 and some box tops.

Ironically, you actually could mail order machine guns in Australia before Port Arthur hit and everything got banned.

>>1533874
This ignores that defensive use of a firearm does not have to involve killing anyone, or even shooting at them. It also ignores that of those homicides a clear plurality of them are almost certainly drug and gang related and were committed by people who were already prohibited from owning firearms.

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>>1536645
>You can buy guns on the internet, but by law they have to be transferred through a licensed dealer who does the background check.
Literally not the case
>just because you say it over and over doesn't make it right

Literally, literally not the fucking case and is why the gun show loophole is literally a thing. >>1536670
>If he was right, I could have gotten an M60 by mail order for 14.95 and some box tops.
You literally can. Just because you didn't doesn't mean you can't. You simply did not, or could not, find a private-seller.

>>1536639
What I am telling you is you are explicitly wrong. All you are doing is providing law which is right, I am literally not disputing that, said it over and over again.

What I am saying is private-sellers are not under these laws, that's the whole fucking point you mong. That's why people want to shut down these laws, thats why they don't fucking work. Pic related are the states which require checks on private sales.

You can literally google this yourself, you are flat out wrong, I have said it over and over.

Honestly do not know what you are doing, it's all on fucking wiki.

Do you believe I am ignorant and are trying to trick me? You are just making a fool of yourself.

>>1536969
>What I am saying is private-sellers are not under these laws

There's no such thing as a legal private sale for NFA items though.

Private sellers aren't immune to any laws. The laws that require NICS checks and record keeping only apply to FFLs, that isn't immunity from the law.

You can only have private sales for Title 1 firearms. It is unlawful to transfer an NFA item without transferring it within the NFA registry and purchasing the requisite tax stamp. It is also unlawful to engage in interstate commerce of firearms without a FFL.

Seriously, this is good typing practice. my form is still shit, but I'm at least using most of my fingers now. I used to only type with my index fingers but it gradually grew to include all of my fingers except for my pinkies.

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>>1536994
Kek, don't have to type anything to refute what you are saying.

If only what you are saying was actually enacted, right?

>It is also unlawful to engage in interstate commerce of firearms without a FFL.
Is the only correct thing you've said.

>>1537006
How are you still not getting the difference between Title 1 and Title 2 firearms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_II_weapons

Seriously, no wonder you support gun control, you're the kind of person that would rape virgins to cure their AIDS if they lived in Africa.

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>>1537017
Why does what they classify as matter? Regulation of firearms doesn't mean regulation of class II weapons? Class 2 weapons have never been exempt from the loophole?

Actually hilarious, literally besides the point and everything you said is still fucking wrong. Reverse image search this image. It's a private seller and his class II firearm, being sold at a gunshow.

You know the Columbine shooters right? They got their guns from a fucking gun show. Their transaction was only considered illegal because the shooters themselves did not buy them (straw purchase), someone bought them for them - for a total cost of $500.

(http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun990420.htm) they bought multiple shotguns also.

Your argument, is still, literally fucking wrong.

>>1537036
>They got their guns from a fucking gun show.
To add to this, after the events described, there were bills put to the senate or something to try close these gun shows, or at least know whats happened. Surprise surprise, it didn't make it through.

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>>1537036
>Class 2 weapons have never been exempt from the loophole?
>he got BTFO so hard he's trying to pretend he was trolling

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/NFAGuidelines.pdf

I enjoy this, fgt.

This is fun to me.

>>1537049
>https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/NFAGuidelines.pdf
That literally, proves you wrong.

>How To Purchase NFA Title II (“Class 3”)
>Items from BudsGunShop.com
>from BudsGunShop.com
>from BudsGunShop.com
>from BudsGunShop.com
>from BudsGunShop.com

>this seller is doing the right thing
>because he is a good person
therefore
>literally everyone does the same thing
>even though, by law, they are not required to
Right.

I mean it's not like by googling it literally expresses exactly this
>Firearms ship to FFL only.

You are literally holding one example as reasonings for law? I have never disputed what you are saying, I am simply saying there are unlicensed sellers who do not have to abide by these laws, and are still legally selling what ever guns they want - that's the point. Glad you are done, finaly. Enjoy your ignorance. You got btfo by a fucking wiki scholar.

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>>1537061
>am simply saying there are unlicensed sellers who do not have to abide by these laws

And I'm posting Sesame Street image macros and laughing at your piss-poor attempts at damage control.

>>1537066
>And I'm posting Sesame Street image macros and laughing at your piss-poor attempts at damage control.

I love how you have downgraded to simple anger when you cannot make any more points.

I would gladly continue this discussion, have you any actual valid points to make.

>inb4 you made no valid points so i wont
Come now.

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>>1537071
Well, I've linked you to multiple sources on NFA law and none of them mention any exception for private sellers.

It would be like insisting that you're immune from rape charges because you graduated from cooking school, and then insisting that somebody prove to you that that isn't the case.

Also, I enjoy this shit.

>>1537066
>And I'm posting Sesame Street image macros and laughing at your piss-poor attempts at damage control.

But that's been his point the entire time and that is what the gun-show loophole is. It simply doesn't exist because you don't want it to.

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>>1536486
>Less all around civilians slaughter and suicide?
>less suicide
>Advocating gun control to stop suicide
What are you gonna do when people resist? Arrest them, imprison them, kill them? Good job, you prevented them from killing themselves with a gun (even though they can do it plenty of other ways), you've only succeeded in ruining their life or killing them to do it.

Are you stupid? Are you dense? Are you a sociopath?
>Can't let citizens shoot themselves so let's send the cops to do the job for them
Dumbfuck

>>1537076
>Well, I've linked you to multiple sources on NFA law and none of them mention any exception for private sellers.

You understand how your federal law works right? Again, fucking again. There is no problem with your federal law. THE LOOP HOLE REVOLVES AROUND THE FACT THAT PRIVATE-SELLERS ARE EXEMPT FROM FEDERAL LAW

>The Brady Bill requires that background checks be conducted on individuals before a firearm may be purchased from a federally licensed dealer
>The Brady Bill requires that background checks be conducted on individuals before a firearm may be purchased from a federally licensed dealer

These unlicensed sellers are not fucking federally licensed, they ARE STILL ALLOWED TO SELL THEIR GUNS

I am now done.

You are actually retarded

>none of them mention any exception for private sellers.
Therein lies the whole fucking point. If it doesn't say you can't, you essentially legally can. Nowhere in federal law is it stopping unlicensed sellers from selling guns. Holy shit you are dense, of course it doesn't appear in NFA guidelines, it doesn't fucking exist!

>>1537084
Slaughter and suicide, not separate entities. You know how when someone usually shoots up a school they shoot themselves, that's what I mean.

People who are adamant in their convictions and *not* mentally unstable do not kill themselves after their actions. The kids were able to fulfill their insane desires on a whim, they were able to get guns on a whim.

If you take away that ease of access to guns you undoubtable add more time in between thought and actions. Giving way for clarity to come.

>>1537096
>THE LOOP HOLE REVOLVES AROUND THE FACT THAT PRIVATE-SELLERS ARE EXEMPT FROM FEDERAL LAW

Well, typically when lawmakers write a law, they specifically and unambiguously lay out who is affected.

The law states that in if you make a living selling firearms, you require a Federal Firearms License. FFLs need to apply the NICS check and keep records of every sale.

The National Firearms Act is centered on possession though. You can't possess an NFA firearm without the stamp. It explicitly states that possession of an NFA firearm with no tax stamp is a crime. If you found one in the woods after somebody died, you couldn't keep it without the stamp. If you found one at an old battlefield, you couldn't keep it without a stamp.

You seem to have become confused because you found a post-86 dealer sample, which is something that you can only buy as a Special Occupational Taxpayer, that is, somebody who works in the firearms industry for a living.

You see, the people who pay 200,000 for an M249 aren't doing it because they enjoy the spit and polish of a gun store. It's actually the only way they can legally possess one in the US.

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>>1527834
All you need to do is sufficiently dehumanize your political opponents.