Could someone clear things up on history of the Quran and Muslims

>>1523283
Muhammad never existed

>>1523283
We can't tell why Ali's quran was rejected, unless we can actually read it. Most probale reasons would be his comentary was not fit for the political, social or religious theme of that era. But looking at the number of his teachings mentioned in hadith says otherwise.

Before it was written, it were to be memorised. These people were Hafiz, there are still many of the Hafiz today. The Prophet selected young and intelligent scholars to do this.
However, some verses in the Quran are time related, they were only validated in a specific time period. Some verses are even neglected because of some of the Hadith. In the Quran it states that it would be lawful for one to eat anything from the sea. Yet, some knowledgeable scholars did not permit the act of eating foods like Shrimp, various crustaceans, shark etc.

I'm a well knowledged Muslim, ask me anything

Details of Muhammad's life, the quran, and islamic identity were largely made up for political reasons during the two centuries that followed his death

>>1523685
Will need a legit source for this one

>>1523534
>>1523283
>>1523689
Waraqa bin Naufal, who was both a scholar and the leader of the Ebionites in Mecca, took a special interest in his young relative the orphaned Muhammad.

He saw in him qualities of leadership, spent much time with him, and over the years taught Muhammad the Gospel of the Ebionites as well as the contents of the Torah. Waraqa bin Naufal performed Muhammad's marriage to Khadijah, and groomed Muhammad to replace him as the Ebionite spiritual leader in Mecca.

When Muhammad first announced that he was receiving revelations from God, the revelations were in large part the stories he had learned from Waraqa bin Naufal. Waraqa encouraged Muhammad to consider himself a Prophet, with the understanding that just as Abraham had been the Prophet to call the Jews back to Allah, and Jesus the Prophet who called his generation back to Allah, so Muhammad would be the Prophet who could call the Arabs back to Allah. It is interesting to note that at this time Muhammad did not see himself as founding a new religion, but only in calling people back to the Islam of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.

http://staringattheview.blogspot.ca/2010/10/ebionites-muhammad-and-quran.html

http://www.thinkatheist.com/profiles/blogs/the-ebionites-and-muhammad

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/184451/sec_id/184451

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites

>>1523699
The Jewish community of Arabia was one of the largest ancient Jewish communities in the history of the Jewish people.

When Mohammed fled from Mecca in 622, he went to Medina. At first, he entered into an alliance with the Jews. He studied in their yeshivas and adopted their religion. But when, after two years, Mohammed could not convince the Jews that he was their leader and to bow down to him as a prophet and convert to his own religion, his attitude turned toward open hostility.


http://www.aish.com/h/9av/ju/What_Happened_to_the_Jews_of_Arabia.html

>>1523704
scholars have made extensive comparative studies and have shown commonality between Islamic teachings with what is in the Talmud and concluded that the Prophet took a major portion of his teachings, if not all, from this literature.


it is striking to find how heavily Muhammad relied on his Jewish contacts for the passages and teachings he ultimately set forth as part of the divine revelation.

So much, indeed, was Muhammad indebted to the Jews that the Qur'an has been described as a compendium of Talmudic Judaism. (Blair, The Sources of Islam, p. 55).

>>1523704
that article reads like we wuz bullshit

>>1523699
I refuse to acknowledge Think Atheist as a legitimate source of information. The Quran is full of knowledge that hasn't been obtained from other sources.

>>1523726
Not really
https://archive.org/details/TheOriginalSourcesOfTheQuran/
It borrows heavily from several different sources

>>1523726
like the Syriac Bible
even the word "quran" is Syriac for liturgy

beyond that I never understood why people get worked up about Joseph smith being a loony when Muhammad's story is equally as sketchy if not more so.

>>1523738
>William St. Clair Tisdall(1859–1928) was aBritishhistorianandphilologistwho served as the Secretary of theChurch of England's Missionary Society

Apparently Christianity knows more about Islam than Islam itself

Christopher Hitchens summed it up quite well.

Before you tip those fedoras have a listen and you'll see the quran is literally a pick and choose from either side of his followers who decided after his death what is best.
Plus muhammed was a deranged madman who made it up as he went along because he got more power, women(and little girls) and followers for spewing this shit from his mouth.

https://youtu.be/CADoG-gu5Zk

File: 1458773971822.jpg (58KB, 516x529px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 516x529px

Everybody using Christian sources, yet the Bible is the worst when it comes to sketchiness

>>1523759
So what you're saying is you'll only trust primary sources which claim divine inspiration?

>>1523767
Your entire post is an enormous fucking lie.

>>1523772
I'm saying that I'll need a source from both sides, not everything is to be trusted.

>>1523283
>this entire thread
Read the Cambridge Companion to the Qur'an

>>1523778
Great argumentation

>>1523785
You don't argue with lying pieces of shit. You shine the light on them and watch them hide like cockroaches.

In July of 1604, James wrote to Bishop Bancroft that he had "appointed certain learned men, to the number of four and fifty, for the translating of the Bible." These men were the best biblical scholars and linguists of their day. In the preface to their completed work it is further stated that "there were many chosen, that were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and that sought the truth rather than their own praise. Again, they came or were thought to come to the work, learned, not to learn." Other men were sought out, according to James, "so that our said intended translation may have the help and furtherance of all our principal learned men within this our kingdom."
Although fifty-four men were nominated, only forty-seven were known to have taken part in the work of translation. The translators were organized into six groups, and met respectively at Westminster, Cambridge, and Oxford. Ten at Westminster were assigned Genesis through 2 Kings; seven had Romans through Jude. At Cambridge, eight worked on 1 Chronicles through Ecclesiastes, while seven others handled the Apocrypha. Oxford employed seven to translate Isaiah through Malachi; eight occupied themselves with the Gospels, Acts, and Revelation.

"We are so far off from condemning any of their labors that travailed before us in this kind, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henry's time, or King Edward's...or Queen Elizabeth's of ever renowned memory, that we acknowledge them to have been raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posterity in everlasting remembrance."

>>1523767
the first written accounts come within the lifetime of the Apostles, and the continuity between accounts is very high ensuring reliability and lack of change.

>>1523534
>I'm a well knowledged Muslim, ask me anything

Why'd he fuck kids?

>>1523283
He would, it hasn't change at all other than the edition of some grammar.
The Quran was written down during his life, it was compiled when he died, a few versions were floating around and one was chosen as the proper one.

>>1523969
All cult leaders do.

>>1523685
Nah, this is a political motivated revisionist meme, just like the Jesus didn't exist argument.