How aware was the avergae German citizen of concentration camps/mass

>>1518363
They knew. If you go to the resistance museum in the Bendlerblock, there's a map of all the concentration and death camps the Nazis set up. The fucking things were everywhere, which was how they maintained such effective control over the population. Plus, the slave labor battalions were frequently integrated with the regular workforce, so average germans interacted on a day to day basis with inmates from the camps throughout the war.

>>1518821
Ah. Do we know if there was a sense of distate or closeted shame for it amongst any groups of people? Or was the propaganda game that stronk that everyone was on board?

>>1518821
The camps must have not been as bad as we are led to believe then if the jews in them were working amongst the populace.

>>1518848

How do you figure?

>>1518821
You're greatly overestimating how well people know the nearby areas outside their immediate living space

>>1518859
We're saying now, at this point, that hundreds pf thousands if not millions of Germans came in contact with the jews and didn't do anything based solely on propaganda of them. Its unbelievable since roughly 7% of the nation were card carrying National Socialists, and obviously the jews working among them were coming from camps with what, 500 calorie daily intake. From what I have learned none of this adds up.

>>1518903
Pick one:

1) Holocaust was a hoax.
2) People didn't want to rock the boat and potentially endanger themselves or their family during wartime by speaking up for people they weren't related to and whose suffering didn't affect them personally.

You ever hear of Kitty Genovese? It's like that, but also the rapist is a Nazi and the cops are Nazis too.

>>1518363
People knew for the most part. but most were ignorant of the full scope of the genocide.

but most German civilians didn't care too much, after all, it was subhuman jews and Russians who were going in. What's it to the honest, hard working Aryan that these inferior beings are to work and die to improve the Reich? so as the rhetoric would say.

From what I know the germans knew that there were concentration camps but the average german didnt know that things were so fucked up. The SS during the war make a big effort on propaganda. Thats why many people at the time thought the concentration camps were like "vacation" camps, not death or labor camps. I cant be sure 100% but Ill guess that the average german knew about the labor camps. The more intelligent ones knew of the abuses, experiments and deaths. The more idiotic and nationalist refused to accept reality and thought the jews were on vacation.

read somewhere that most Germans thought they were just the run of the mill prison labour camps and not straight up "kill a buncha niggas industrial scale" camps

>>1518919
>pick extreme view a or extreme view b

>>1518363
They knew.

I don't think they cared even if they did know. Put yourself in their shoes and think about how the jewish bankers were the reason for their suffering before the war in the first place

>>1518363
>Did they turn a blind eye, support it or just not really know until very late?

Basically a mixture of the first two. Camps of various kind were all over Germany, so it was simply impossible not to see them.

It was quite common knowledge that opposing the government in any kind, including verbal criticism, would bring you into trouble. Thus people turned a blind eye on most things that the Nazi government did out of convenience. This included camps.

On the other hand, camps often directly benefited German citizens, for example in the form of cheap workers or servants. This definitely gave them incentive to be glad that the camps or slave labour exist. Moreover, the German population knew that the camps housed not the good, law-abiding Germans, but THEM - a mixture of Jews, Poles, Russians, communists and all others whom the Germans saw as their enemies, or at least people who wronged Germany in any way. This obviously incentived the Germans to see the camps as a form of good riddance.

The German citizens most likely knew that the conditions in the camps were usually deplorable and that there was a significant death toll. It doesn't require a genius to figure out what the miserable state of prisoners (whom they saw at daily basis) and their fast rotation actually meant. Most Germans rationalized that per above - it was good riddance, their enemies were dying. As the war years went, the general situation of German citizens was rapidly deteriorating. They were thus more inclined to see more of their prisoners (i.e. enemies) dead.

The entirely different question is whether Germans knew (or suspected) the scale of mass murder and that people were also mass murdered by industrial means. I think this depends on what their job was and who their friends/family were. Railway workers were surely aware that SOMETHING is going on. A farmer in Northern Frisia - most likely not.

>>1518363
Most camp victims weren't even Jewish to begin with, there were far more Slavs, deserters, political opponents, dissidents and homosexuals.

>>1518830
Oh plenty of people weren't down with the plan, and felt fucking awful about it, but most didn't see much recourse. Especially not the civilians directly involved. One Polish train driver said he had to do the job drunk so that he could mentally drown out the screams

>>1518903
>based solely on propaganda of them

If you knew that the government was fully committed to wiping out millions of people, would you be willing to oppose them?

>>1519167
Are we talking interned or killed? Either way you're wrong, but I want to understand how wrong. For death toll specifically it was around 6 million Jews and approx. 6 million other undesirables.

>>1519010
I'll answer literally every one of those questions, ez pz.

1) Because not every camp was a death camp, even death camps contributed Jews to the slave labor battalions, and slave labor battalions didn't require technically skilled, or physically gifted workers, just people period. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work on an assembly line

2) You do realize that Dwight Eisenhower is the reason we have such extensive photo documentation of the camps, right? Not only that, he ordered that American troops be bussed in to view the camps. He knew retards like you would coma along one day and deny the whole thing, and wanted to preempt such stupidity. unfortunately, your existence proves that he failed.

3) Because why keep jewish women around if you aren't going to let the troops and the prisoners who collaborate fuck them, and because Mengele needed a place to conduct his """"experiments""""

4) Because enemies of the state need to die, and if you kill all of them now you don't have to bother with clearing out the lebensraum later, you dummkopf. The troops are already there, just have the SS round them up and ship them to the camps.

5) German documents pointing to the holocaust, you say? You mean like the Minutes of the Wannsee Conference?

Man, this is too easy having come fresh off a trip to Berlin.

>>1519010

Load of shit.

>>1519484
Not to mention that the fucking germans were ordered to go to the camps and give the jews a proper burial. The fucking nazis saw them dead. If it was a lie, the first people to go against it would be the germans, but they are too embarassed to say.anything because they know their grandpas fucked up.

>>1519494
Very solid argument

>>1519484
>He knew retards like you would coma along one day and deny the whole thing, and wanted to preempt such stupidity. unfortunately, your existence proves that he failed.

Questioning the government's testimony is equivalent to being a retard?

>>1519484
Eisenhower only filmed the camps at the end of the war after extensive bombings and starvation had broken out.

Germans never would be allowed to have sex with jewish women per Nuremberg laws

You're right about enemies of the state needing to be imprisoned or executed. Last thing the Germans needed was a 2 million large fifth column behind enemy lines. As they had experienced in 1917 that was very probable.

What exact parts can you quote regarding the holocaust.

>>1519606
>As they had experienced in 1917 that was very probable.
ayyyyyyyyyy

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>>1519624
Why do I even bother. You'll just keep regurgitating the same propaganda repetitively.

>>1519579

Yep, I wont dignify a bunch of untsourced blatant lies with a more elaborate answer.

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>>1519010
5) continued
You see anon, in Berlin they have several museums about the whole thing. They even have a document from Heydrich describing the actions that would constitute the Final Solution, marked as having been shown to Hitler and signed off on by him. Maybe you should go there sometime, although I fear the mountain of evidence they'll present you with might trigger you into a catatonic state.

6) None of the question is true, so I'm not even sure why this should get a serious response. But seeing as you'll twist my dismissal into a supposed inability to refute your bullshit, enjoy pic related.

7) The short answer is that they didn't use any coded language. The Wannsee conference documents are very explicit in what they intend to do.

8) Factually incorrect.

9) Also factually wrong. Since you've provided no evidence and it's like 9:45 PM, I've decided to stop babying you and not write full length refutations of the more blatant lies.

10) More factually incorrect information.

11) In the case of the lampshades it's because that was determined to be a camp rumor based on the actual practice by the commandant's wife of cutting the number tattoos off of dead jews.

12)
>one exhibit entered by the Poles proves the holocaust didn't happen

And for the record, nobody was executed over steam chambers. Just the very real and very nasty gas chambers.

13) (There is no 13, apparently math is not the strongsuit of Neo-Nazis)

14) Another blatant falsehood, Night mentions the gas chambers. Which anyone who read it knows.

15) And? This isn't even a question.

16) Factually incorrect yet again. Shocking.

17) Not a question, and chock full of more blatant falsehoods.

18) Europoors are always oversensitive. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

19)
>the leading revisionists are first rate scholars who hold advanced degrees

I almost blew pilsner out my nose. Suffice it to say none of this is true either.

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>>1519672
Continued 3

20) Because nobody actively tries to deny the existence of the Civil War, you dummkopf.

21) Because what you said about crematoriums not producing smoke simply isn't true. Here's some smoke from a T4 crematorium near Hartheim.

>>1519606
>>1519634
>things that happened after the Germans already lost the war

Truly, America's only true vice was her desire to forgive.

>>1519672
>I can't disprove it but here is me saying you're wrong the post
Nice illegible 352 kb image. Maybe you should have saved the original.

>>1519634
I wouldn't be so quick to call out propaganda when not one of the wikipedia grab infographics about the German revolution posted by /pol/tards mention the large scale desertion and rebellion of Imperial Navy servicemen that kicked the whole thing off. Not Jewish enough?

>>1519703
You're a jew aren't you? Only a jew would be so malicious against Germans with a deep, abiding personal anger.

You wouldn't happen to be South African.

>>1519706
> I can't prove it but you have to go find evidence to refute my blatant lies

Yeah no, I challenge you to find evidence supporting any of the things I dismissed as counterfactual. That which can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed the same way anon.

>>1519711
I'm a WASP bro.

Ain't no jews allowed in the country club.

>>1518363
To a varying degree, my grandma for example definitely knew as she did her apprenticeship in one

>>1518821
I can buy that the average German knew about concentration camps. After all they would have seen their neighbors literally taken away. And they would have known about the slave labor. I'm not sure how much they "knew" about the death camps. Some probably suspected but it might be a case of willful ignorance to preserve their idea that they are the 'good' guys.

>>1519841
A lot of Germans assumed the camps were for killing Russian POWs.

>>1519827
The jews own the country clubs
>I went to Berlin and made sure I went to all the holocaust museums btw here is my infograph proving the holocaust but I'm totally white bro

>>1519858
Spoken like a man who doesn't live in the South.

Tell me, who hurt you to the point where you need attention this badly?

>>1519753
They were questions not assertions of fact. You didn't properly answer any of them. You provided no evidence to support any of your claims.

>>1518821
Everyone knew about concentration camps, it was not a secret. But there were certainly no maps circulating that marked Auschwitz, Treblinka etc. as death camps.

>>1518363
they probably knew it

it's not like it was top-secret, it just wasn't in the media

>>1519010
holocaust-denial goes back to >>>/pol/

Even most Jews didn't know what was going to happen to them, otherwise they wouldn't have walked camly into the gas chambers.

>>1520273
Debate the legitimacy of holocaust reporting and documentation is not against the rules.

This is what I find suspicious, why be so vehemently against questioning anything? We live in a culture of criticism where everything has been questioned- religion, politics, history, everything. Why should we have sacred cows- and why do these sacred cows exist?

>>1520297
they were tricked/forced

for exampled they were told it were "delousing chambers"

>>1520346
Top bait, buddy

>>1520346
Also, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHzWo79dCHs
A documentary by a Jew debunking the Auschwitz myth.

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>>1520335
>Debate the legitimacy of holocaust reporting and documentation is not against the rules.

The holocaust happened and pic related is proof. It's Jewish demographics from all sources worldwide. That's as much of a fact as it gets.

Questioning hard evidence like this is not about "historic interest" but about vitriolic racism and rightfully needs to be banned and persecuted.

>>1520335
Because Jews are afraid of western civilization moving on without them. Why do you think they are so scared of Nazism? It is anti-Jewish.

>>1520346
Dude, Nazi officials didn't deny the Holocaust at the Nuremberg trials, and they were fucking hanged for it!

>>1520273
"oh no this guy does not support my views better post go back to pol/tumblr/reddit and so on"

Fucking hell. This is why /his/ is a joke. This cancer was here on the first fucking day and it is still alive.

Do this board a favor and stop posting please.

>>1520363
They would've admitted to Hitler's underdeveloped conjoined twin hidden under his coat that fed him esoteric knowledge about the occult if they were beaten badly enough in the interrogation rooms. Not really a good argument.

>>1520381
what is your proof that they were tortured?

>>1520336

I'm talking about the transport to the death camps. The deportations usually went down relatively smoothly; if there were sure what was going to happen they'd have fought tooth and nails and tried everything to escape.

>>1520387
>if there were sure what was going to happen

They weren't. Auschwitz was also a work camp, and besides, it's not like they knew where the train was going anyway.

>>1520384
>https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=974
Good thread.

>"During the first interrogation they beat me to obtain evidence. I do not know what was in the transcript, or what I said, even though I signed it, because they gave me liquor and beat me with a whip. It was too much even for me to bear. The whip was my own. By chance it had found its way into my wife's luggage. My horse had hardly ever been touched by it, much less the prisoners. Somehow one of the interrogators probably thought that I had used it to constantly whip the prisoners."(11)

>>1520381
holy kek

>>1520368
/his/ is in constantly civil war, christians vs pagans, roman fanboys vs viking fanboys, fascists/monachists vs liberals/democratics, and more...

>>1518903
>Its unbelievable since roughly 7% of the nation were card carrying National Socialists
Even less of the DPRK are card carrying party members. Do you believe their population doesn't know about the labor camps, the disappearances and the executions?

>>1520400
>Anecdotal evidence from the offended party
>they beat me with the horsewhip my wife had brought in the luggage that she counted valuable enough to make space for.

None of that is suspicious to you?

>>1520400
So if we have a single source of testimony, that alone is evidence of a malicious conspiracy?

Furthermore, remember, if we're to disregard the testimony of the Nuremberg defendants, that means this testimony to is to be disregarded.

>>1520353
Fun fact: David Cole now believes that a genocide took place and gas chambers were used.

>"The best guess is yes, there were gas chambers" he says. "But there is still a lot of murkiness about the camps. I haven't changed my views. But I regret I didn't have the facility with language that I have now. I was just a kid," he said this week.

>However, Cole's stated views on the Holocaust was now somewhat similar to the stated Holocaust views of David Irving. He thus argued that mass killings had occurred at some camps such as at Treblinka.

>>1520410
That is why I stopped lurking here after a month of the boards release. The people who lurk here are fucking mega autists.

>>1520396
So they knew all Jews were going to be murdered in death camps sooner or later but nevertheless the Germans were able to make them enter a train with unknown destination without any major problems (generally)?

Basically, Hitler did publicly stay stuff about killing all the Jews, but most people didn't read these, or dismissed as just rethoric (it was a safe bet, it was the same guy who talked about a 1000 years reich and shit). So most people probably believed that the Jews were just being interned or kicked out of the country, which was the official position anyways, and there was no free press that could investigate this, and the avarage joe couldn't find out on his own.

>>1520569
No he didn't, you made that up. Citation needed, kike.

>>1520569
Actually, Goebbels mentioned extermination of Jews during the Sportpalast speech. He caught himself mid-sentence and changed the subject. This part was cut out of printed version of the speech.

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>>1518363

>>1520830
>>1520868
>Today I want to be a prophet once more: if international Jewish financiers inside and outside Europe again succeed in plunging the nations into a world war, the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thereby the victory of Jewry, but the destruction of the Jewish race in Europe!
>If at the beginning of the war and during the war twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain.

>>1520387
Jews collaborated with nazis to choose who would go in the trains. They probably knew and refused to believe it. It's pretty insane to tell yourself youre gonna be gassed like insects and burned into a crematorium just because youre jew

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>>1518821
Remember, Nazi Germany had no internet, barely had TV. Relied heavily on newspapers and radio to get the going on across, they had one of the best propaganda ministers of all time (Joseph Goebbels).

My German Grandmother is ashamed of the war, and never says anything about it apart from.

>we didn't know what was going on at all.
She literally had no fucking clue what was going on while she was in her country, it wasn't until SHE LEFT GERMANY did she find out what the fuck was going on there.

She married a brit and got the fuck outta there, kinda sad. Will never know about my German history.

>>1521222
>half anglo and half german

Sad for you

>>1521228
>half
less than that.

>thai
>murica
>straya
>britain

that's my parents parents. I have coat of arms though, so there is that.

>>1521228
Ikr? He's half cuck and half inbred islander

>>1521233
>>straya
>German**
Mums starya.

Also help, what can I identify as?

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>>1521214
I think I heard about this, pic related.

>>1518848
The death camps were located in Poland.

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>>1519010
here we go

>inb4 not an argument

How come noone posted the /his/ holocaust thread that is usually posted with all the evidence in one thread?

anyway how come people always focus on jews and not gypsies, mentally ill and homosexuals? and how come all the talk is about the gas chambers if most of people died in the ghettos?

>>1521808
Because no one gives a shit about gypsies.

>>1519010
>>1519672
>non-Germans and especially non-Europeans who's ancestors never had any connection to the holocaust trying to explain that the holocaust didn't exist with blatant lies
>meanwhile convinced Nazis kept bragging post-WW2 that they actually did it the absolute madmen
You deniers are full of shit. My great grandparents, relatives, acquaintances and neighbors knew about the camps and about all the sick shit going on, but they turned a blind eye on it because the war they had to take care of enough hardships. And they came from both the German and Polish side.

>>1518363
German here.
The knew it and even today they know all the shit the worldleaders America and europe do, STILL they do nothing and keep they eyes and ears close. Why? "It's all so negative, better keep my positive vibes."

Ignorance will never die.

>>1519484
>If you knew that the government was fully committed to wiping out millions of people, would you be willing to oppose them?
Don't we have this now with American middle east policy except for the millions meme? People oppose it but what can they really do?

>>1520356
(^: ? XX_But Those Jews Could Have Died Of Anything Or Just Disappeared_XX ? :^)

I Saw This Thing The Other Day Btw
XX_http://www.jta.org/1943/07/02/archive/russia-helped-1750000-jews-to-escape-nazis-says-james-n-rosenberg_XX

>>1518363
#1 They thought they were work camps
#2 German Propaganda movies shown decent conditions inside of camps. To this day /pol/ reposts those thinking they're true footage.
#3 Even people working there weren't willing to tell a lot about what's happening there, why would they? Can you imagine a family's dinner with the son asking his father what was he doing today at work and he answers with "we've received new transport, asked craftsmen, workers, technicians etc. to come with us send the rest to be fucked up with gas"? I can't.

>>1518919
Demanding someone picks between only two points of view is a logical fallacy desu

>>1519858
There are two reasons people go to Berlin. Museums and Techno, and since anon is a yank he probably isn't into Techno.

>>1520335
>I'm just asking le questions
Questions that have been answered hundreds of times. 99% of the time someone denies the holocaust happened they're an ideologically addled dogmatic fool.

>>1524454
But on the other hand the jews and the allies wanting to quash German Nationalism and right wing ideology in Europe have just as much of a dogmatic, ideological reason to exaggerate and lie.

>>1518821
Seeing as most if the Hungarians at Auschwitz were apparently clueless as to what went on there I'm not too inclined to believe you.