I'm genuinely interested in Zoroastrianism. How deeply

It was a warrior-militant religion and undoubtly influenced Islam more than judaism and christianity

Much of the theology found in ancient zoroastrianism was later used in ancient judaism. Judaism, like many religions in the region, combined aspects of pan-babylonian mythology with zoroastrianism. Christianity later picked up a few more that the jews missed, likely through the influence of Mithraism

>>1506882
>>1506897
>>1507219
Nothing bud G-d influenced the true faith

>>1506882
Zoroaster believed the tanakh as written that the Jews took into captivity in Babylon, that became captivity in Persia.

Everything else you think you know about Zoroastrianism was written 2000 years after that fact.

>>1506897
No it wasn't, stop lying.

>>1507235
Also bullshit. Zoroaster was dead over a 1000 years before the Iranians ever encountered the Jews, stop perpetuating this meme crap that has no historical basis in reality.

>>1507235
do you have any proof of this? sounds like similar tiered excuse to christians saying that the Mithraic feast's similarities to christian communion comes from demons giving the cult the practice in advance of christianity to mislead people from the true faith

>>1507255
just to be clear, I don't agree with that guy. but how can we be sure of when Zoroaster lived? my understanding is that we are severely lacking in source documents of anything ancient in Iran thanks to various library burnings

>>1506882

>inflect

Excellent typo.

>>1507268
You mean besides the fact that we have Gathas on dried goatskin that have been carbon-dated covering the hymns written by Zoroaster being over a thousand years older then the meme time bullshit that he lived the 7th or 6th century bullshit?

Or the other fact being that it was some English or French bishop who wrote on him as a hobby with scant little historical evidence and claimed that Darius the Great's boast that his father and father's father lived with Zoroaster being evidence despite the sheer incredulity of it?

>>1507255
*tips fedora*

>>1507283
Great reply dude, you showed him.

>>1507268
We know for a fact the questionable claim of Zoroaster living a century or so just before the rise of the Achaemenids is pretty much historically untrue and that its a myth that has perpetuated itself despite the academic proof of Zoroastrianism being far FAR older by centuries if not millennia.

Even worse is how often people think Judaism had any sort of impact on Zoroastrianism at all.

>>1507281
source? don't see this on wikipedia and the only other websites i saw were zoroastrian so i didn't think they would have credible info

>>1507297
>Even worse is how often people think Judaism had any sort of impact on Zoroastrianism at all.
the only people I've seen say this are apologists which is understandable

Modern zoroastrianism is very different than ancient zoroastrianism. The modern version has a ton of influence from islam and hinduism

>>1507306
Yeah, no one other than apologists think that way. Its not a controversial thing at all

>>1507301
>Wikipedia
It was from Thomas Hyde who was basing his writings off of a French visit to Persia named Chardin who was right on some points but wrong on information regarding the foundation of Zoroastrianism and aspects of Zoroaster's life.

Probably a stupid question but this seems the right time: how well does Zoroastrianism relate to other Indo-European religions like Graeco-Roman paganism/Hinduism etc etc? Are there shared elements or vestigial leftovers, clues to common ancestors and so on?

Sorry if this is a shit question but this kind of thing is fascinating.

>>1506882
Those three religions, like judaism, were combinations of zoroastrian theology and ancient mythologies in the region. Modern incarnations also have muslim influence

>>1507327
It doesn't outside of the fact the codified and orthodox version settled by the Sassanid period admittingly shows various pagan Aryan/Indo-Iranian gods incorporated as angels and spirits into the Zoroastrian universe. Just like how Christanity takes pagan elements from Roman and Greek religion into itself.

>>1507327
Not a stupid question at all. Pre zoroastrian religion in iran fell into this tradition. Zoroastrianism combined aspects of those deities into one, creating the first truly monotheistic religion

>>1507337
Interesting, do those entities tend to maintain the same type of characteristics after being absorbed or do they change substantially?

>>1507340
Sadly I know basically nothing about Iran pre-Alexander and very little thereafter so it's all a bit confusing. What kind of religious practices did the Iranians tend to follow pre-Zoroaster?

Thanks both for the answers.

>>1507324
no, i mean the Gathas being on goatskin carbon dated to way before the 6th century B.C. some further searching and all I've found is that there is linguistic evidence that the Gathas are from 1000-1500 BC based on its similarities to the Sanskrit in the Vedas

>>1507359
Its in an Iranian museum. There's other tangible evidence of Zoroaster's life and existence but point was its irrefutably beyond a doubt that he lived centuries before the meme claim of 700s BC era.

>>1507354
Pre zoroastrianism, the iranians worshipped an average pantheon. Nothing too terribly special. It was much too early in their civilization to really diversify from other Indo-European pantheons. In fact, many anthropologists make no distinction between pre hindu and pre zoroastrian religions, but instead consider them a single spectrum of beliefs.

>>1507255
He's a 6th century figure.

>>1507260
Yes.

And the Catholics are pagans, and picked up pagan practices by allowing pagans to join their state church without conversion.

Conflating Catholics and Christians can kill you.

>>1507382
can you give me a link or the specific museum? I don't agree with that claim I was just unsure much we can pin down a specific date or time period on his life

>>1507255
Zoroaster, Old Iranian Zarathushtra, or Zarathustra (born c. 628 bc, probably Rhages, Iran—died c. 551, site unknown)

Encyclopædia Britannica

>>1507297
Even worse is idiots like you lying about everything under the sun.

>>1507403

>>1507389
>He's a 6th century figure based off the ignorance of a French writer who also claimed he was an apprentice to Abraham historically.
Yeah sure thing, buddy.

>>1507398
I don't know how to link that shit. Either way you already agreed to my point when you know that the Gathas were written AFTER Zoroaster lived and died.

>>1507382
More bullshit from you.>>1507403

>>1507408
>>1507403

>>1507408
>I don't know how to link that shit

You don't know how to think either. Fact it. You're just fucking stupid.

>>1506882
Zoroaster never existed, and the religion didnt exist until about 1500 years ago. It was a spin off of Christianity and proto muslims. Fedora tipping anthropologists try to make christianity and judaism look bad by claiming its older.

>>1507403
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster#Date

>>1507408
then the specific museum. I agree with you moreso than the apologist shills I'm just interested in this specific piece of potential evidence. you're starting to appear like you're purposefully dodging my request

>>1507403
>>1507406
That's based off Hyde's misinformation you fucking retard, which he took from second hand sources on Chardin's accounts in Iran in the 1700s, you idiot.

>>1507418
>>1507413
>>1507409
>>1507406
>>1507403
(You)

>>1507387
That's really interesting, thank you!

>>1507427
I don't know the name of it, I visited that museuem years ago on a trip there. Its in Tehran I think.

>>1507403
>most evidence supports pre-10th century BC existence of Zoroastrianism
>and of Zoroaster's life dating as far back as the 15th century BC
>French and English writers with little knowledge transmit false ideas and misreprenstations of Zoroaster's life
>Which is now considered orthodox ifnromation on Zoroastrianism despite it being factually incorrect
Okay. So despite Hyde and Baptise making things up and inserting Judaeo-Christian theology on it like making up Zoroaster predicting the birth of the Messiah in Jesus Christ or him being part of Abraham's direct family, it must be true right?

And even thought we have physical evidence of Zoroastrianism starting wellllllll before the 7th century BC, your going to keep insisting on it because the English still believe that? Great.

>>1507403
>probably Rhages, Iran
lol according to what dumbass?

Zoroaster was born in what is now northern afghanistan, he preached his religion in the central afghan highlands - you can confirm this by looking at avestan geography which mentions areas in afghanistan, tajikistan, uzbekistan, northwestern pakistan and only a small bit of eastern iran

>>1507403
>here's my link that uses a fictionalized account of European writers who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about
Awesome

what are the main texts to read for Zoroastrianism, Mazdakism, Manichaeism and Yazidism?

Can anyone provide some credible contemporary scholarship on Zoroaster? Everything I've found seems to be from a non-academic source, or seems to have an agenda driving it.

Zoroastrian threads exposes Christians as desperate and bold-faced liars.

>>1507812
Gathas and Avesta

>>1507956
show me the amazon link f a m

>>1507812
Mazdakism and Manicheanism are completely dead, you ain't getting shit from them, especially Mazdakism. That said the idea of a hippy Marxist running around Iran 1000 years before actual hippies existed is hilarious

>>1507354
>>1507387

It's interesting to note that both Zoroastrianism and the Rig Veda both make reference to 'Asuras' and 'Daevas'.

In Hinduism, the devas are seen as good, while in Zoroastrianism they are explicitly referred to as Gods to be rejected.

>>1507853
The Dawn and Twilight of Zoroastrianism by R. C. Zaehner and anything by Mary Boyce

>>1507228
Hahahahahahaaahahahahahahaha

>>1508220
And in Germanic polytheism the Aesir and Desir are both good (Or, okay, well, one is explicitly "The bad guys").

I doubt it has anything to do with anything, it's probably just how the various religious and languages evolved.

>>1508280
Well that's the Indo-Iranian monomyth isn't it?

>>1508191
Mazdakism might've been a prototype form of communism or socialism on a more extreme scale in Sassanid Persia but it was by no means "hippie".

>>1507297
>>1507255
>>1507235
>Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

infact Kabala is based on Zoroastrian angelology/demonology

http://www.persiandna.com/angels.htm
http://guideangel.com/angels.htm

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Judaism_vs_Zoroastrianism

>>1508280
isn't explicitly*

>>1508298
All Indo-European religions are related. They share a common ancestor.

It´s a lot of religious big fucking scams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUzExsAJLmI