Was he really a bad person? How does his "kill count"

>>1504761
He did nothing wrong

>>1504761
>>1504763
>>>/leftypol/

>was he really a bad person
yes he most certainly was, an unapologetic sociopath who killed millions of imagined enemies

the only nice thing that can be said about him is that Trotsky would have been worse

>>1504761
He was a sociopathic asshole communist. He killed 6 million Ukrainians and shipped everyone he didn't like to the Gulags. Under his rule, his country committed the worst war crimes of WW2. What's to like? Him and his ilk ruined my country.

>>1504773
I will take the bait.
>Japanese

>>1504773
>committed the worst war crimes of world war 2
3rd worst at worst, 2nd worst at best. Nobody tops the japs for war crimes.

>>1504763
A lot of the people he killed are now believed to have been innocent. He could have vetted them more carefully.

>>1504794
>>1504799
I forgot about the Japs but he was worse than Hitler.

>>1504771
>Trotsky would have been worse

Defend this inane fucking statement

Because he killed a shit ton of people: directly. By his order.

The people he "saved" is subjective. You could just as well say that he killed even more people because he COULD have been a better ruler and saved more.

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>>1504773
>>1504803
>worst war crimes of WW2

He was a piece of shit, plain and simple. He merely flushed those he didn't like, rather than those that were the actual detriments to the USSR's success

When Hitler declared war Stalin was so upset that he hid in his room for 3 days. He just wanted to make friends.

>>1504803
In the war crime department, probably.
In the "systemized mass killing" department, maybe. You have to try to combine the gulag fatalities with an estimate of the intentional deaths caused by the Holodomor, intentional mistreatment of POWs (unless that counts as a war crime as well) and the great purge and put it against the holocaust (and I mean the whole thing i.e. Romani, Jews, gays, political opponents, Poles and POWs)
I'd have to look up the estimates on that.

>>1504816
>Rape of Germany
>Mass graves
>Gulags
>Treatment of POWs and civilians
>General soldier behaviour
The Germans killed a lotta dudes, but they weren't as inhumane as the Soviets.

>>1504761
Well look at it this way. He did industrialize his nation in a rapid period of time and only a tyrant like him would have thrown men into the eastern front meat grinder like he did. But the way he got rid of people was despicable and harsh. He was a bad person, but the necessary counterweight to Hitler.

>>1504773
Calm down, Pawel

>>1504761
>""bad person""

Are you eleven?

>>1504825
Holocaust is estimated at 15 million according to whatever it is they use to figure that shit out (seems pretty out of the ass f a m, but it's not like we have something better). Stalin killed way more in Gulags and other camps, not to mention executions. And he definitely wins if we're talking own people here.

>>1504830
I'm Ukrainian buddy

>>1504817

not just those he didn't like, ALL OF THEM.

guy could see you walk past his office because you needed the closest bathroom possible and write you down to get dissapeared.

schizophrenic old bastard finger fucking the world's biggest gun.

>>1504826
What? Operation Barbarossa tops any of that

>>1504841
Calm down, Omurtag.

>>1504826
But the German killcount was massively higher. It's not even comparable.

I'm sorry the Russians weren't polite about resisting genocide?

>>1504825
>>1504838
I think its important to note when we get into these kill count arguments that the methods of mass murder used by the fascists were far more scientific and thorough than those used by the communists. Had the fascists been around longer I think they easily would have surpassed the communists.

>>1504841
Even worse haha

Remember how you guys slaughtered Poles en masse without the Nazis even asking?

>>1504851
Not to mention Generalplan Ost.

>>1504919
yes, to that end there was a great interest in developing anti-fertility treatments that could be given to slavs en masse. It was the main thrust of Eduard Wirth's medical experiments at Auschwitz.

He was a monster who also happened to be an extremely capable statesman and leader.
Beware, I'm not saying he was infallible or glorifying him, he was a monster whose policies killed millions but which also helped USSR win WW2.
Stalin brought undeniable results to the USSR (higher literacy, industrialisation, victory in WW2 and overall USSR superpower status) at an enormous cost.

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>>1504761
First I believe he good person, but then i realize he bad person too late

>>1504838
sounds about right

>>1505416
Stop Lenin me down all the time.

>>1504761
>>Was he really a bad person?
Yes

>>How does his "kill count" compare to the millions of lives he saved,
Which lives were those? WW2 would have been won regardless, more of the casualties would have been american instead and the war would have taken a year or two longer.

>>and millions of other lives he improved?
Russia was starting to industrialize before he showed up.

>>1504761
ivan stop they don't pay you enough for this

>>1505451
If I don't Stalin sends me and family to Gulag

What the fuck!? I hate Stalin no- *USER WAS UNABLE TO FINISH POST DUE TO "EXILE" FOR BEING ENEMY OF PEOPLE*

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I claim this thread to become /Russia/ for glorious father Stalin!

Stalin is hated by both /pol/ and /his/ for some reason. The end result justified the means. He turned the USSR into a superpower.

>>1505491
But at what cost? He gained an insane amount of power by unending fuckery of Russia/ns and turned the Revolution into Revovling Door.

Russia was shit compared to the rest of europe, people starved ffs. Under stalins time ussr went from shittiest of hell to shit hell

>>1505491
Just because a pile of shit has like one or two clean jelly beans sticking out doesn't mean you should eat them.

>>1505451
Russian commies are generally anti-Putin

>>1504761
>people tare trying to justify the actions of this psychopath

>>1505491
/pol/ hates him because they're uniformly cuckolds who prostrate themselves before the feet of capital

There's no evidence the 1930s famine in Ukraine was intentional. It's a lie mainly promoted by Ukrainian nationalists who idolize Nazi collaborators. The historians who originally pushed that myth have had to go back and revise their conclusions.

>>1505651
You are a fuck

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Calculating_the_number_of_victims

>deaths of 6 to 8 million people in the 1932–1933 famine

>historians differ as to whether the famine was a deliberate part of the campaign of repression

>or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization

You are splitting hairs what words to use about Stalin starving 6-8 million people to death.

Intention or unintentional, he did it, the blood is on his hands. He's a fuck and so are you, you apologist for mass murder.

>>1505777
I assume you also recognize Churchill as a mass murderer?

>tankies

>>1504859
Nobody has a bigger hard-on for nazis than Ukrainians. It's pretty creepy considering the Nazis regarded them as subhumans in the same mould as the Russians and poles. They were just dumb, temporarily useful subhumans

Hitler, Stalin and Mao are the three leaders of world history that it's never ever going to possible to have a rational, objective conversation about aren't they?

I guess Mohammed would qualify also these days

>>1504851
>Fascists
Only the Nazis undertook mass killings and human experimentation. Italian Fascists were actually fairly benign.

>>1505842
Not even the anon you're replying to but whataboutery triggers me. Stop arguing like a retard

>>1505986
Ukrainians are like a girl who leaves a mean father for a drug dealer boyfriend

>>1504773
The Holodomor never happened but I wish it did.

>>1506280
This

>>1506255
Kek

>>1504761
He was a greedy Gregorian who hated Russians. Stalin didn't care what happened as long as he was in power.

>>1504761
He killed for no ideology other than that he should have all power. He industrialized, communalized and mechanized, true, but it's not like he alone could have done that, and his purges only hampered those efforts.

>>1504773
>He killed 6 million Ukrainians
And Simo Häyhä killed 60,000 Russians with a minigun, your point?

>>1508113
One he was defending his country and two those weren't innocent civilians of your own nation that you are supposed to protect...

>>1504761
Due to his policies, I would say he firmly killed more Russians than the Whermacht did directly

>>1508113

hella f*ckin epic /b/ro

>>1508126
The point is that Simo's kills and the Holodomor being intentional are both bullshit propaganda.

>>1504761
>>1504763
>>1504806
>>1504830
>>1505459
>>1505466
>>1505491
>>1505584
>>1505651
>>1506280
>>1506376
>>1508113
>>1508744
>>>/leftypol/

>>1504761
As a misanthrope and antinatalist, the higher the kill count, the better. The human problem must be exterminated.

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>>1505842
>Believes Churchill and Stalin are comparable when it comes to this

>>1508881
edgy

i agree though

>>1505554
becoming a superpower = two clean jelly beans

>>1508754
Fuck off, this is our board

>>1509257
Kill yourself commie, it's the Christian board

>>1509257
>>1509278
I'd say /his/ is equal parts Marxist and Catholic, which some overlap between those two groups

>>1509257
Nice false flag

Some of the morons in here denying the atrocious warcrimes of the soviet union and other things such as the holodomor, I hope you know that you are exactly as "good" as /pol/ shitposters denying the holocaust?

>>1509308
But there's proof of the Holocaust

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>Holocaust numbers are way inflated!
>But the commies definitely killed the 700 trillion, that number totally wouldn't be inflated at all

>>1509297
You're right about Catholic and Marxist overlap, but dead wrong about any majority
/his/ is Christian Monarchist

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Their lives would be even better had they not stayed in a communist shithole.

Just compare Finland with the rest of the Russian Empire, that fell to communism. Finland, being the only part of the Empire where anti-communism won, became the best country in the world.

>>1509324
Communists are the ones running society, they wouldn't inflate their own kills
If anything it's probably deflated

Fucking lefties, they are so stupid

>>1509336
Are they suppose to be finns? the majority of finn Christians are Lutheran not Orthodox

>>1509324
Yeah, and Commies argue the other way around. What else is new?

>>1509339
>Nazis did not conquer much of Europe and ran shit for several years
>Nazis did not burn massive amounts of records and evidence of crimes to cover their own ass when it became apparent they would lose

Nice revisionism.

>>1509339
That's unfortunately not true. Communism hasn't been mainstream outside Cuba since the 90s.

>>1509330
I've seen very little monarchism here, compared to socialism

What the fuck did Stalin save?

Literally any other leader from the committee could've done what he did but with less purges and famines.

>>1509404
Vocal minority silent majority

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>industrialized Russia in the space of like 15 years.

>still makes Nazis cry to this day

So, nothing?

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>>1509339
>Communists are running society

>>1509548

So, no, they're not the majority.

>>1509558
>not liking a mass murderer means your a nahtzee

>>1509548
I think it's just you, haha

>>1509499
Easy for fucking you to say

>>1509339
Communists don't run out society, anon