>patriotism >nationalism >being proud of your country's

Never really saw the point unless you had such low self-esteem that you piggybacked off random people's achievements.

>>1497906
wtf i hate nationalism now

Nation states were a mistake.

>>1497927
well we have the same stuff in America even without being a nation state

The bigger meme is abandoning everything your ancestors worked for because meh, fuck it.

There is a balance between being a worthless fucktard who relies on national pride to not feel like a worthless fucktard and the millenial that discards their heritage because their country engaged in a war 100 years ago.

>>1497906
You're clearly from a shit country.

> being proud of your ancestors' accomplishments is bad

>>1497935
pretty sure all my ancestors worked primarily for themselves

>>1497906
>Is there a bigger meme?
Multiculturalism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdEGJb5W5ks

>>1497936
>being proud about something you didn't do

>>1497935
I discard my heritage because I honestly just don't care about it at all. I also don't care about wars my country engaged in.

>>1497939
What a horribly cynical and ignorant assumption. Your ancestors would not be proud.

>>1497961
>how should i live my life?
>i know, i shall dedicate it fully to the well-being of my country so my descendants can be proud of me one day
said no one ever

>>1497975
Said literally every single person in your lineage until you.

>>1497980
this delusion

>>1497980
You have a hilariously romanticized view of past generations.

>>1497975
Speak for yourself, bud. Are you a liberal by any chance?

>>1497975
Because no-one fought to keep their families safe, their children. You really are worthless

>>1497980
>>1497985
>>1497961
>>1497938
The people you claim as your own are not your ancestors.

Your ancestors were likely dirt poor farmers who didn't know anything outside their backwater village.

>>1497985
I'm not him but liberals are overly compassionate people who are always whining about 'muh oppression' and 'muh social inequality'.

I don't care about my ancestors or my countrymen in the present day. I don't think that's very typical of liberals.

>>1497985
>>1497980
Was your grand- grand -grandpa perhaps happy and willing to fight in WW1, bleeding and risking his life in trenches thinking "this is worth it because my descendants will think high of me one, day"? Fat chance, i bet he was shitting his pants and cursing his own country that mobilized him and sent into bloodbath.

It's funny how the same people laugh at Christian traditions, while being completely submerged in national myths. The Church was a real, tangible thing for almost two millenia, while most nation-states are idealist conceptions pasted together from various historical periods. Narratives and defined canons are essential for nationalism to work. There really isn't a firm dividing lime between religious faith and national pride, we just perceive it as more rational.

>>1497995

Why did you pick WWI, in which many countries literally used nationalism to fuel recruitment where there are countless diaries and poems of soldiers maintaining a romantic view of their nation?

They were probably shitting their pants and hated being there too, but that doesn't mean being told "Your homeland and way of life is on the line" isn't a motivator.

>>1497995
Except for the fact that the majority of WW1 soldiers were proud volunteers happy to serve their country.

Especially the junior officer corps burned through well educated, altruistic, young men.

Of course, after experiencing the horrors of war, many of them may feel they made a mistake, but generally most were proud.

>>1497994
Ironically Liberals are quick to shit on their heritage due to their compassion. Some white people whipped some black people to pick cotton 100 years ago so they have to disown their entire lineage. I'm not even the same guy defending the ancestral pride but I understand why its important. It helps develop a national identity which is crucial to actually being a nation.

A lot of contrarian teenagers in this thread.

People have not always be so selfish and individualistic as you. Previous generations looked after their neighbours, communities, and by extension had a love of their country.

Guess what? Men and women readily volunteered for service and work during the wars, because they - most of them at least - loved their countries and shared its values.

I am proud of my ancestors fighting in the wars they fought in, and for standing up for the values which my country exemplifies.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcissimum pro patria bibere. Ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae.

>>1497975
Edgy

>>1498018
>I am proud of my ancestors fighting in the wars they fought in, and for standing up for the values which my country exemplifies.
>Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcissimum pro patria bibere. Ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae.
in my i dont know how many years on this shitty site this is by far the most fedora post ive read

>>1497906
>not feeling common attachment to shared experiences within your culture

Do you have friends OP?

>>1498010
I could've picked any other hellish war from the past that was fought in the name of nationalism.
>>1498015
In the beginning maybe, because they were young stupid fucktards who thought real war is some 19th century romanticized picnic they brainwashed their minds with since childhood.

>>1498025
The fedora here is your use of 'fedora' as a legitimate rhetorical device.

>>1498025

How exactly is an appropriate latin quote fedora? Especially when it's in favor of nationalism and shit that edgy atheist fedoras tend to think themselves "too mature" for.

>>1498028
friends are spook

>>1498041
So is solitude

>>1497906
>Is there a bigger meme?

do you hate the concept of society or something?

>>1498030
>I could've picked any other hellish war from the past that was fought in the name of nationalism.

And you picked the one with basically the best case for an actual genuine feeling of nationalism in the fighting populace.

Nationalism is an extension of tribalism, a sensation that almost every human being experiences. Having 'your group' and 'their group' predates nation states, and it's only quite recently that individualism has become so emphasized over contribution to one's community.

It's obviously more nuanced than "I'm gonna go die JUST because I love my country" but the nation to many - especially before the 60s -reflects their common values, their communities, the people and things they love.

>>1497992
>Your ancestors were likely dirt poor farmers who didn't know anything outside their backwater village.

and this is bad because some modern airhead thinks borders are stupid

>>1498025
newfag, desu

I guess it's really only applicable if your country is a bit shit.

You could use the "we have a proud history" or "we once did the HYPEST shit" as motivation to help improve/change your country, or to gather support toward such a cause.

But in this day an age where in the first world one place really isn't that different than any other, nah. Nationalism isn't relevant, and won't be until the next war that doesn't take place almost entirely in some third world shithole.

>>1498054
>muh human nature
just because animal packs slaughter one another doesn't mean humans should do the same

>>1498060
>in the first world one place really isn't that different than any other

this is precisely because patriotism and nationalism have become dirty words and everyone insists that mixing shit together produces the best results despite mountains of evidence to the contrary

>>1498056
What are you even talking about?

I'm just stating the obvious, nationalists like to talk about their glorious ancestors, when the the people who actually did shit were not related to them in any way,shape or from.

I think in part nationalism is a product of the social contract. There is obviously a biological factor of an inherent bias towards one's own race, but I imagine a large part of it is the mutually beneficial relationship between the state and the citizen, and a loyalty towards said relationship, as that relationship meets basic needs such as food, shelter, etc.

>>1497906
I have ancestors who were her in the 1620s, another that fought in the American Revolution, my great-great-grandfather was a railroad magnate and both sides of my family have been wildly successful. I'm goddamn proud of the country my ancestors helped build.

>>1498070
>mixing shit together produces the best results despite mountains of evidence to the contrary
True. Unification of Germany was a mistake.

>>1498078
but you didn't build it personally

>>1498078
>I have ancestors who were her in the 1620s
> my great-great-grandfather was a railroad magnate
you are litterally proud of your familiys part in a genocide....good job faggot

>>1498082
And I never said I did.

>>1498084
Yep.

>>1498084
>Muh Indian genocide
Do you really believe they were a peaceful and unified ethnicity before da ebil white man showed up? They were slaughtering each other far before a pale skin ever stepped foot on the continent.

>>1498074

sounds like projection

>>1498080
>uniting one culture under the same banner is a mistake

????

>>1498096
Sure.

>>1497906
>being proud of your culture is a bad thing now

spot the globalist faggot

>>1497906
Some nationalisms are dumb, others are not.
In the end it's a collectivism that can and often does serve the interests of group and thus individuals within that group.
Majority of people are too dumb to embrace meme philosophies that are farted out by people with too much time on their hands.
Religion, nation, family, those are simple creeds to live by and they enable a succesful society in varying degrees.
Don't be a half-baked pseudo-intellectual. As they say, a little bit of knowledge is often more dangerous than being ignorant.

>>1498099
>Germany
>one culture
lol

>>1498095
you still killed almoste every last one of them...
yeah not shit they werent peacefull before...but the yat least...you know...existed...

>>1498101

>he uses the word globalist

retarded alex jones follower spotted

>>1498100

so do you have anything to say or do you just insist that no one can be patriots/nationalists because clearly no one had ancestors that gave a shit, despite many people having ancestors who in fact did have a stake in their nation, or actually fought for it?

>>1498118

you're right it's about 50/50 german and muslim now

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>>1498099
>implying a schleswig holsteiner and a bavarian have anything in common

>>1498095
Do you really think warfare can equal the deathtoll caused by old world disease and genocide?

>>1498099
I'll meme you.

>>1498129
>this delusional
you are either shitposting or in need of help

>>1498119
and they still do exist. We gave the red man casinos and shiny trinkets for their land and they took it. Fuckin' suckers. Believe it or not morality is not what drives political dealings because its not practical to put another people over your own.

>>1498123
Are you implying globalism doesn't exist?

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>>1498124
Stop putting words in my mouth.

Do you think people who claim achievements like science or technology were related to the people who made them? Are you personally related to Isaac Newton, are you related to Leibniz?

Your ancestors were pawns and mere cannon fodder.

>>1498147
>We gave the red man casinos and shiny trinkets for their land and they took it.
[revisionsim intesifies]
yeah no...

>>1497933
>America
>not a nation-state
We can claim one of the oldest nationalist movements in existence. Fuck yourself.

>>1498123
>Denying the steady march towards globalism by leftist politicians

>>1498153
>were related to

in the way they all contributed to the success of the country, absolutely

>>1498119
We didn't kill them, we absorbed them you idiot.

>>1498158
But they're not your ancestors, the definition of ancestor is
>A person from whom one is descended
You're not descended from any of those great thinkers or scientists so don't claim their achievements as their own.

>>1498124
He made it alright argument, all you did was claim that he doesn't want borders and was a dumb libral. 10/10
>"UR ANCESTURS R SHIT MINE R BETTER EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO PROOF ETHER STATEMENT BEING TURE"

>>1498154
Are you denying the fact that half of them literally sold their land for pocket change? Of course other land was taken by force. The land taken was more than likely taken from other tribes in conflicts before the IRA and other acts. Why is ownership by right of conquest valid when everyone uses it but white people?

Patriotism is necessary because some nations(peoples) lend themselves to ideologies and ways of life other than patriotism more than others as due to human evolution different peoples vary biologically and in nature. Therefore to have any beliefs or ideology whatsoever dictates a type of national preference or patriotism. In order to defend the free market,capitalism and all the liberties of the west we cannot allow the west to be taken over by a people that value none of those things.

>>1498168
>You're not descended from any of those great thinkers or scientists so don't claim their achievements as their own.

you don't have to be a great thinker or scientist to contribute to the nation you live in

people are proud of their ancestors for different reasons, all of them valid

>>1498169
>He made it alright argument, all you did was claim that he doesn't want borders and was a dumb libral. 10/10

i didn't even say liberal once, regressive

>>1498169
t. Totally not a samefag

Being proud of your country is retarded. Loving your country and working to improve it is not.

>how to have 100+ posts in a matter of hour: the thread
Good job OP

And its not just because I live there, this whole cosmic lottery concept is total bullshit.
Its no coincidence that I'm Irish, my mother's Irish and my father is Irish and I am the bearer of an ancient heritage. Its as stupid as saying I could have been born a frog.
My Irishness dictates many different things about me. If I was African for example I would most likely be mentally retarded, If I was Middle Eastern I would have an iq below 80, but I am European and this is the single most important thing in making me who I am.

>>1498186
>you don't have to be a great thinker or scientist to contribute to the nation you live in
>people are proud of their ancestors for different reasons, all of them valid
If your ancestor is not a great scientist,thinker,engineer,militaryman etc. then you cannot claim their achievements as done so by people who constantly shitpost about 'their people' being better than another.

Sure, you can be proud of your own ancestors but don't bring up the past accomplishments of strangers to justify superiority or anything else.

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>>1498187
Not an argument.
>"and this is bad because some modern airhead thinks borders are stupid"

>>1498207
>Sure, you can be proud of your own ancestors but don't bring up the past accomplishments of strangers to justify superiority or anything else.

so you're basically telling me accomplishments as citizens of a country don't matter because you aren't related by blood

even though these successful people helped each other by living in the same society and supported the same nation with that success, being proud of other citizens as a patriot of that nation is wrong

patriotism is wrong because patriotism is wrong?

>>1498018
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares(2) we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest(3) began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots(4)
Of tired, outstripped(5) Five-Nines(6) that dropped behind.
Gas!(7) Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets(8) just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime(9) . . .
Dim, through the misty panes(10) and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,(11) choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud(12)
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest(13)
To children ardent(14) for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.(15)

Wilfred Owen
Thought to have been written between 8 October 1917 and March, 1918

>>1498230
You're now changing the subject. My whole arguments this thread has been centred around ancestors, I have not talked about citizens.

But I'll humor you anyway, you are your own person and your achievements are your own.

Wouldn't it be retarded logic if I said I was better than you because some random guy,who I didn't even known, invented something amazing?.

Patriotism,Nationalism and even your conceptions of these other great citizens are all abstractions and have no basis in reality.

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To all people here only talking about achievements, what about culture?
Should people be allowed to acknowledge and value their culture?

>>1498276
Yes, but its an entirely different matter when people begin to claim they're culture is the best culture because culture is always changing.

>>1498268
>Wouldn't it be retarded logic if I said I was better than you because some random guy,who I didn't even known, invented something amazing?.

pride in itself is nonsense, that's the whole point

it's part of what keeps societies functioning, that unit cohesion

if you keep believing you are nothing and you came from nothing, you will BE nothing

pride in ancestry, patriotism and the practice of nationalism might be a bunch of crap that is only slightly grounded in reality, but it's a great foundation for people to work together and achieve more than they would have on their own

>>1498276
Culture is always in constant flux but it should definitely be acknowledged and valued.

>>1498296
Patriotism and Nationalism can he helpful in social cohesion but if people get caught up in too much you get shit like the total brutality of the Eastern front in WW2, because people give no fucks if they're fed bullshit about being superior.

>>1498312
>people give no fucks if they're fed bullshit about being superior

it's amazing isn't it?

from a nation on the edge of collapse to fighting most of the developed world in no small part because they believed they were great people

>>1497906
There's a difference between /pol/ tier nationalist shitflinging, (aka "Muh country is better than your country") with loving your countries history an where you come from. It's healthy in fact, to focus on the things about your country you like and want to improve. There's nothing wrong with even a citizen of the worst African shithole having a sense of belonging and connection with ones country, because it's about your lineage, not "accomplishments" you didn't take part in.

>>1497906
Patriotism is fine. Ethnic nationalism is retarded. Just take a look at modern German history.

>>1498312
So in other words patriotism and nationalism are bad because those values can lead to being Nazis?

>>1498367
I said that patriotism and nationalism are useful but if encouraged it leads to atrocities, the eastern front was just used as an example.

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This nihilistic individualism is why Western culture is dying.

>>1498352
>Ethnic nationalism is retarded. Just take a look at modern German history.

it's not like the germans are the only people that have ever focused on promoting themselves and their culture to achieve things

that's basically been the gold standard for empires since ever

>>1498388
Except the Romans who literally didn't give two shits about Roman culture and just copied everything from Greece

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>>1498352
>people identifying with their own is fine
>as long as it's not THAT kind of way

Why is ethnic nationalism retarded except that it hurts your white guilt?

>>1498393

as far as ancient greece to rome i think it's more of a long evolution more than simple copying

either way they used that culture to rally around and become a great empire

do you think people ever said things like
>romans shouldn't take credit for things X emperor did

Question to the nationalists itt
If I'm an American who loves french food, french culture, french history and has learned the french languague, can I become french despite my ancestry hailing entirely from Germany?

>>1497935
I find the balance to be having pride in your country's standing while resenting its bureaucratic problems.

>>1498429
>can I become french

it's up to the french isn't it?

what do you think it implies if they accept or refuse you?

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>>1498384
The west dies because it must, sugar

What's wrong with taking pride and inspiration from your nation's past and trying to make your nation great so that future citizens can likewise take pride/inspiration in order to make the nation great ad infinitum?

t. lazy bottom-feeder

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>>1498429
No, you have to be at least this black to be a French citizen.

>>1498396
I'm not even white m8.

>>1498463

i don't think that surprises anyone

>>1498455
Lack of clear definition of what makes a nation "great", combined with the closed-off-ness of such a statement. Why not take pride in the accomplishments of all people to make the world a better place?

>>1498466
It shouldn't. Most people in the world are not white.

>>1497914
>nationalism is popular with neckbeards who post on an Uzbekistani interactive fiction forum

Really makes you think...

>>1498474
>Why not take pride in the accomplishments of all people to make the world a better place?

because no matter what you do

you won't convince everyone to cooperate

all the people on earth won't be united until a lot of disagreements are settled in blood

>>1498484
It's not like nations are some cohesive hive mind. It's ultimately only as great as you want to think it is

>>1498481
>Most people in the world are not white.

of course, but most of the ones posting here speaking english live in countries that are

of course he would dislike ethnic nationalism, since he is most likely not part of the ethnicity that surrounds him

>>1497906
I can understand being proud or loving your country if its people, government, military, etc. weren't giant pricks
If you're proud of or love America (as a whole) then you're a meme. Frankly i can't really think of any country that is "good", even if you did excuse it of wrongdoings of the past. Maybe like, Switzerland if you ignore it's past.
Or the Principality of Sealand. Or Greenland

>>1497942
>Be me
>Live in London
>Live in Tower Hamlet
>Celtic blood surging through my veins
>No fucks given
As far as I'm concerned, the meme is neither dank nor stale.

>>1498482

>nationalism is unpopular with people who truly have no one to look up to and have accomplished nothing to be proud of

it goes both ways

>>1498367
They're bad because they're tools that authoritarians use to control spooked proles. No shit they're bad as long as we're using toddler words here. god, you reek of the same intellectual dishonesty of every alt-right apologist and their love of playing stupid. Anyways, I hope it's pretending.

"lead to being Nazis"

What a retarded fucking thing to say.

>>1498498
>I can understand being proud or loving your country if its people, government, military, etc. weren't giant pricks

pride is literally about being an asshole to feel better about yourself

not a single nation on this earth was created without being mean to somebody

>>1498508
Go back to /leftypol/.

>>1498515
Not an argument friendo

>>1498010
Because the poems weren't written by the soldiers, shitsmear.

WWI and II are literally the biggest catalysts of postmodern cynicism and here you are.

>>1498520
It's OK, he doesn't have one. He's just le trolling for attention.

>>1497906
Your ancestors genetics and their influence on the environment/culture is essentially everything you are (nature + nurture). The idea that this somehow has nothing to do with the individual is so blatantly stupid that it blows my mind every single time i encounter it.

>>1498515
Stop being a fascist bootlicker

>>1497906
It's true i say im a nationalist all day on the internet but actually i don't care that much

Here's the thing : i say im nationalist purely out of individualist reasons

Immigrants have made this city shit, poor, dangerous, dirty, etc, and it's getting worse

Which is directly affecting my daily life, in a bad way

And so Nationalism is the only political option available for me.

Now, do i actually love my country simply because i was born here or all that ?
Hah no i hate it i fucking wish i could escape this muslim shithole

You have to understand : Nationalism isn't a choice. It's a necessity.
If i voted on the basis of ideological merit alone then i would vote communist. But i don't, i vote out of survival instinct here.

>>1498503
At least they're honest

>>1498549

be honest you're not anti-fascist you're anti-government

>not being an individualist nationalist
>not loving your pwn country for the joy it brings you
>not being proud of your country's past because you enjoy it

submissive pussy

>>1498520
Neither is "muh spooks".

>>1498569
A spook is a legitimate philosophical concept. Redirecting someone to a different board isnt

>>1498536
I hate my ancestors for creating me.

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>>1497906
filthy bolshevism

>>1498574
>A spook is a legitimate philosophical concept.

It's a fucking dismissal. Invoking spooks is basically just saying "what you were talking about doesn't even exists and therefore you haven't presented an arguement". It's also used almost exclusively by Marxist and anarchist shitters from /leftypol/.

without patriotism and nationalism to some degree, how do great people become great?

if no one notices you or benefits from what you've done, what have you really accomplished?

>>1498602
I'm not the guy who originally invoked it but I'm certainly not from leftypol and he wasn't using it as a dismissal

>>1498068
>just because animal packs slaughter one another

They don't really.

>doesn't mean humans should do the same

They shouldn't. Nationalism doesn't magically mean hating and slaughtering all other nations anyway. Even if it was, it doesn't mean it's not a thing, a natural compulsion. You can counter natural human tendencies with discipline, education, etc, but the average person will still trend towards them. Humans are social animals, we crave being part of a group, and there are tons of psychological quirks that incline us to do it. Nationalism is just taking this sort of group thinking further.

>>1498608
Yeah, he fucking was.
>Ugh everything you just said was so spooked and you're so wrong and stupid I can't even right now

Related thread >>1494421

>>1498623
He was applying to people in the past using nationalism as a justification for terror. Try to overcome your memes and actually read the posts

>>1498509
Well I don't know about "nation". I'd agree though that a states typically don't form without some kind of hostility but the circumstances of a state/nation/country's creation doesn't mean that it cannot become an admirable entity

>>1498173
Who said anything about conquest being a good thing here? Also it is annoying that the government broke those agreements in the first place and then cry foul when the tribes they ripped off wind up suing them over it.

>>1497906
You still have to go back Escobar.

>>1498623

This post >>1498312 is what I actually said, stop playing dumb you fuckwit.

>>1497995
Did you grow up in a supportive household and do you plan on having any children in the foreseeable future? It sounds like you don't.

>>1497906
Yes and it's called communism

>>1497935
Well honestly, you have no obligation to continue what your ancestors worked for. Especially if what they worked for was something negative, or impractical.

>>1498095
So I assume you think it's justified for Muslims to go around killing Europeans since Germany and France have a long history of antagonism?

>>1498129
>five percent is equal to fifty percent

>>1498152
>>1498157
Globalism exists, but "globalists" is an obvious codeword for Jewish conspiracies

>>1498455
It's really no better than taking pride and inspiration from other nations' past. That's the problem with nationalism, it's too limiting, and the emphasis is on the nation, rather than the accomplishments themselves can be good. In a way it's a good thing, because it encourages specialization (which is beneficial in terms of things like international trade), but it can still hold you back.

>>1498557
>being opposed to governments using propaganda to manipulate their people means you're anti-government

>>1498814
>being opposed to governments using propaganda to manipulate their people means you're anti-government

what other evil things can you attach to your idea of fascism?

>>1498820
We were talking SPECIFICALLY how nationalism is used as propaganda to manipulate people. You construed opposition to that as being opposition to government.

>>1498131
WWI

>>1497906
Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

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Can someone tell me the logic behind this fucking meme that if you take pride in your heritage, it means you have no accomplishments of your own?

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>>1499176
>unironically using a table napkin as a hat

>>1499176
Rather, I'd like to know what grand accomplishments the individualists have to their name as they post about their moral superiority on a chinese cartoon forum.

>I-I have a gf and pay taxes...

>>1499213
that's not achievement, that's slavery

>>1499213
Well first it would be disadventageous to compare our accomplishments with our ancestors accomplishments, first, there are a lot more of people around us, which lowers the possibility of us having a major impact on them, if you call that a "achievement".
Second, we are living in an age of peace, meaning that most of us dont feel the need/arent encouraged/our country doesnt need to go to war, which in other times would be considered an accomplishment.
And what we think as an accomplishment has changed a lot, singers, football players, are taken today as great examples of succesful people, also we should separate individual/national achievements

>>1497906
Its literally 'we wuz-ism'.

>we wuz romans.
>we wuz Mozart.
>we was Byzantines.
>we wuz vikangs.

>>1498000
And how is your church more real than a nation state? Because it has a physical infrastructure and a story behind it? Might've heard that somewhere before...

>>1497906
>being proud of being gay
>being proud of belonging to your family
>being proud

fugin spooks :DDDD

>>1497906

>filial bonds
>brotherhood
>being proud of your siblings' achievements you never contributed to personally
>loving your siblings just because they exist and you are related to them

OP is a retard

>>1499397
Yeah, I'm sure you think of each and every citizen in your nation as your sibling, you stupid faggot.

>>1499362
That taking the whole "we wuz" meme out of context. It's suppose to be about people claiming they or at least their ancestors were something they were not. People who come from west Africa can not claim descent from Egyptian pharaohs just as a a person from Northern Europe can not claim descent from the Romans. People in Italy actually were the Roman and shiet.

>>1499408
Bad example tbqh because due to population migrations it's unlikely that italians really wuz romans n sheit

>>1499408
>People in Italy actually were the Roman and shiet.

Not if you listen to this place in which case no one is actually descended from the people who lived in their countries a few hundred years ago.

>>1499405

I don't and didn't imply that, only that there is an analogy between them. It is perfectly reasonable to be proud of the achievements of your siblings despite the fact that you had no hand in them. Why is that not true of your nation? No reason, your argument is retarded

>>1499414
Fuck I was too late.

>>1499414
>>1499422
>believing le rape baby myth and that ethnic Italians aren't descendants from the Romans.

>>1499418
>Why is that not true of your nation?
Because 'nation' is an abstract entity. The achievements were not made by people you were close to, like siblings, but by people completely and utterly unrelated to you.

>>1499436
Next we'll be hearing about how the Germans wuznt actually nazis n sheit because they're all descended from the Red Army rape babies.

Actually I'm surprised some self-hating German hasn't tried to claim that yet.

>>1499408
I guess.

I know I find it really annoying when people misuse the meme just to talk down about African civilizations.

Like say, Ive read people say 'we wuz kangz!' when the talk actually was about West African Kingdoms, and followed that up with how Europeans having better civilizations with actual kings.

People are retards.

>>1499442
They would probably be happy to descended from Russian occupiers.

>>1499447
I know what you mean, you can be having an interesting discussion about a non-western civilisation and then some sperglord butts in and either implies that the civilisation was started by Europeans or spews tired memes like 'poo in loo'

>>1498157
>Implying that right-wing politicians aren't paving the way for global corporations to get away with whatever they want

>>1497906
There is a reason why poor, underclass etc tend to be the most nationalistic, they have nothing good going on in their lives, so they cling to something else.

Hence you have sons of coal miners and grandsons of alcoholic factory workers talking proudly about the good glorious days of the British Empire, even though he had no stake in it whatsoever.

It's delusion, belongs to the circenses, for this gentlemen benefits would be the panem.

>>1499464
This, especially modern monarchist faggots. I can't even begin to think how retarded a person would have to be to support something like that, and then rationalise how they would fit in to the elite that makes the decisions.

>>1499468
>monarchist faggots

I think a constitutional monarchy with some non-absolute role isn't that bad of an idea.

>>1499464
>Poor people glorify nationalism
>Rich people glorify marxism
Rich people claim that they're for the poor and dislike nationalism while poor people idealize past rich people and dislike marxism.
>mindblown

>>1499472
A constitutional monarchy has no teeth and all the decisions are made by the Parliament, see: The UK. It would still be infinitely better than the utopian absolute monarchy that people wank to.

>>1499475
People idealize that which they don't know.

>>1498129
Ironically enough, the presence of Muslims in Germany has done more to create a single unified German identity than anything else, with the exception of Hitler.

>>1499464
>poor people tend to be more nationalistic
This is because the modern education system is biasedly leftist, and for some reason the modern left demonizes nationalism

Hence only those who weren't groomed during their education appropriate ideas that are rejected by the system

In the past however, for example the french third republic, or even weimar germany, it was actually the middle class that was extremely nationalistic

>>1499491
Poor people go to school.

>>1499481
>A constitutional monarchy has no teeth

Depends on what the constitution says, actually.

>see: The UK.

The UK has no written constitution, its monarchy has no real clearly defined role. Thus its the most malleable government that I can think of.

>>1499493
Have you seen how the average ghetto person treats school

Most drop out before they even teach anything that ends in "ism"

I'm not one to push the privilege card but your average school in a poor area barely teaches and serves more as a way to get the kids out of their barely functioning homes (often ruined by drugs/alcohol addiction)

It's often in this desperate state that those who grew up in a poor background will seek meaning, and nationalism certainly is a satisfying and easy to acquire meaning to live
Look at France's Front National and you'll understand to who the party appeals

>>1499397
That's retarded too. Why feel a sense of pride for shit that you haven't done? Seems like a meme.

>>1499515
If your brother found a cure for cancer would you not be proud

>>1499520
My brother's dead

>>1499440

An abstract entity made concrete by a shared history, shared language, shared territory, and shared mythology. An abstract entity to which each person has a relationship and which therefore they can be proud of. This is no less rational than pride in the achievements of siblings or parents. On what grounds would you defend the latter, but not the former?

>>1499531
Not that guy but I hate my family.

Nations are not a material thing so I don't understand when people state they are confused people identify with geographic areas. Nationalism is a choice to centre yourself in a community, it would be counter productive not to love and nurture it

>>1499515

Because the only people who don't 'feel a sense of pride' in such cases are retarded artists

>>1499531
Abstract entities can never be concrete, it's just that you generally tend to have more of an emotional connection to your siblings, which are wholly real, than to an idea like the nation.

If my father or brother invented something world-changing, I'd feel much more prouder than if someone who lived in the same region as me did something 500 years ago.

>>1499531
No, it's not made concrete period. It's an abstract entity. You can no more feel pride for it than you can for a semicircle. You can feel pride for the individual people in that culture, but the culture itself, being an idea, being a nonexistent thing, is incapable of making accomplishments except in the metaphorical sense.

>>1499535
Then you've failed one of basic of man's social relationahips

>>1499555
How do you know it's not their fault?

>>1499546

But then you seem to be arguing that, where an emotional connection exists, pride is reasonable. Are you suggesting that people do not have an emotional connection to their countrymen? Because I was of the impression that the whole point of nationalism (which nobody denies is emergent everywhere now) is that such a connection does exist.

>than if someone who lived in the same region as me did

but the point is that what binds those of shared national identity together is not just territory, but shared history, myth, language, and even ethnicity

>>1499583
>But then you seem to be arguing that, where an emotional connection exists, pride is reasonable. Are you suggesting that people do not have an emotional connection to their countrymen? Because I was of the impression that the whole point of nationalism (which nobody denies is emergent everywhere now) is that such a connection does exist.
Do you share a personal,emotional connection with Leibniz,Schopenhauer,Nietzsche,Bismarck,Beethoven,Frederick the Great etc.?

No, because they're dead and unrelated to you.

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The point of nationalism has never been simply to 'take pride' in your nation. This certainly is a cause of nationalism but the benefits of nationalism have nothing to do with how YOU feel. Quite the opposite in fact.

Every patriotic person in a society is someone willing to sacrifice something of himself for that society. Every person who cares for the well-being of his nation above others is someone who is willing to put himself and his resources to make that society better whenever the call is made to do so. I won't pretend the people making this call always have the best intentions or even the most well thought out plans but there is an undeniable advantage to a society that practices in-group preferences and has tight-knit social orders.

To put it simply: you don't love your nation because it is great you love it because you want to make it greater.

I'm not surprised that modern liberals, living in atomized cosmopolitan bubbles of consumer stimulation fail to understand this concept. Why should you care about your fellow citizens simply on the grounds that they're your fellow citizens when when there are just so many cartoons to watch and drug fueled sex parties to attend. After all, your individual perspective on the universe is the only one that matters, right?

>>1499640
Why make the nation greater when you can do something interesting with your life instead

>>1499607

Personal, no. Emotional? I might do if I shared some sort of identity with them. Plenty of people in England share an emotional connection to Churchill, plenty to Jeremy Corbyn, almost everyone has an emotional connection to the Queen.

>>1499644
Because humans are a social species that benefit both materially and psychologically through cooperation?

>>1499644
>Why go to school when you can spend all day jacking off and playing videogames

>>1499640
>After all, your individual perspective on the universe is the only one that matters, right?
and, apparently yours carries more weight?

>>1499652
So why not just cooperate with eachother, instead of an abstract meme?

>>1499655
Because you want to further your abilities or increase your personal knowledge? Don't know how this relates.

>>1499667
>So why not just cooperate with eachother, instead of an abstract meme?

Because other people on the opposite side of the globe may not have your best interests at heart and may in fact benefit from your misfortune?

If a 'group' of people includes everyone it ceases to become a group. No global community could (at least at present time) decide on what the goal of the human species should be. Shit, you put two people from the same neighborhood in a room and ask them what the goal of humanity should be and THEY wouldn't even agree. Without some form of social order people just disintegrate and go back to competing for their own individual interests.

Quite frankly, the fact that enough people are able to agree with each other to even form nations in the first place is astonishing. This might be as good as it gets, pham.

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>>1497906
Human beings naturally look to form communities this is really undeniable. Nationism and patriotism can be useful in bringing larger groups of people together. But just like every other idea it only has as much power as people believe in it. I truly believe it can be used towards great and terrible ends, but to say it is and has always been singularly stupid and evil is being edgy and simplifying history.

>>1499640
>MY individual perspective of the universe is the one that matters, NOT YOURS!!!!!!!

/pol/cucks everyone

>>1499661
>>1500090
>missing the point entirely and falling for the ego-trap like always

Libtards everybody.

>>1499520
Well it is one thing to be all 'wow my brother cured cancer, I am so proud of him'

However, people on this board tend to go 'EVERYONE NEEDS TO KISS MY ASS AND WORSHIP ME BECAUSE MY BROTHER CURED CANCER'

If nationalism has failed, what is the best posed replacement? It's okay to dislike or tear down a system, but the group that cause said revolution should be ready to prop up their improvement. So what is that replacement
-ism?

>>1498054
Nigger, WWI is literally famous for being the war that destroyed an entire generation's idealistic views of nationalism

>>1498018
>Previous generations looked after their neighbours, communities, and by extension had a love of their country.
Oh yes and those same previous generations cared so much they dumped millions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses into the air and damned the billions of souls to come after to them to life on a dying earth. Quit your idealistic bullshit you thick skulled buffoon. If anything people of the past cared far less about their "countrymen" than today. Just to look at America see how they treated blacks, hispanics, the irish, the italians, the russians, the poles, the greeks, and every other non-northern European for generations. You don't even have to look any further than the Battle of Blair Mountain in which the government dropped bombs on coal miners who were striking because their employers were literally working them to death. Your view of the past is bullshit that you made up in your head wholesale.

>>1497906

Yes.

>progressivism
>globalism
>hating your own people while loving foreigners who share non of your culture or values

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>>1497906
Dumb spongebobposter

>>1499555
Hey man, you don't know that guy's family.

Nationalism and Patriotism are different.

Patriotism is loving your country.

Nationalism is focusing on what is best for your country.

>>1497935

this

>>1497939
>>1497975
>people didn't work so their children and children's children could have it better

>>1498500
>Live in London
Enjoying your Sharia enforced bus adverts?

>>1500334
>hating your own people while loving foreigners who share non of your culture or values

What if I hate both

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>>1497906
>being proud of your country's achievements you never contributed to personally
The idea is that you learn to admire the kinds of people who get shit done in the hopes of emulating them by learning their values and applying them to your life, so that you, in turn, get shit done. Doesn't always work because it's exceedingly uncommon for decent teachers (rare) to happen upon decent students (2x rare), let alone for an exceptional student (8x rare) to meet up with an exceptional teacher (6x rare).
>loving your country
Loving land is not so different from loving wallpaper, but a country is more than its climate or geography. Understanding your nation's long, often bloody or shady history, and seeing the path of its progress--a path that is often set and forged by the rare, driven people who have both drive, talent, and good fortune--is just another way we were meant to inherit the wisdom of our predecessors.

Unfortunately, nobody *wants* people like that anymore. Everyone who has control only wants more of it and will funnel tremendous resources into stamping out anyone who threatens that control.

Patriotism and Nationalism are memes because they were reduced to memes. Being a patriot used to mean something--that you'd sacrifice your life for your fellow countrymen in the hopes of preserving something larger than yourself for your children to benefit from as you had. Nationalism used to mean you understood what your country was, had been, and stood poised to become and taking pride in it. You weren't a patriot or a nationalist if you'd done nothing to contribute. Nowadays people slap the American--or, annoyingly, the Confederate--flag onto their bumpers and bitch about liberals or muslims and consider themselves patriots.

We used to be better than that. Granted, at the time we knew a lot less and did a lot of stupid shit, but we used to have character.

>nationalist
>patriot
>not in the army

explain yourselves

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>>1497906
Nationalism is about not being a retarded Libertarian and understanding that a government actually has an obligation to take care of its citizenry, 'taking pride' in your nation has fucking nothing to do with it. If you want to jerk off to Ayn Rand all day and talk about how amazing you are and pretend like the apparatus of the state has nothing to do with your comfy life, go right the fuck ahead and tip that fedora. You should just realize what you're actually saying when you do it.

>>1500657

Even if you do, you are probably reliant on one or the other.

>>1500681
How is it in a nationalist's interest to go shoot brown people in the desert to topple the latest regime that's deemed problematic and thus helping the latest Islamist insurgency become more powerful? If soldiering meant guarding your border or fighting wars where your national territory or sovereignty were actually at risk, sure, then it'd make sense.

>patriotism
>nationalism
>being proud of your country's achievements you never attributed to personally

Nationalism has nothing to do with having pride of your nations history. Read a book or at least look up the definition
>loving your country just because it exists and because you were born in it

>>1500681
Nationalism =/= having blind faith in your government.

ITT: buttmad communists and globalists

>>1500186
Nothing. The entire point of antinationalism is just not using the word nationalist. Programmes based on cultural integration or assimilation are nationalist. If your country requires learning the official language for citizenship, your country is nationalist.

Instead of "The nationalist solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict" we have the "Two state solution"

Instead of the "Nationalist solution for the Turkey-Kurdistan problem" we have "Free the kurds" or whatever

Instead of the "Nationalist solution for Tibet-China conflict" we have "dicks out for dalai lama" or whatever.

The same people who will vehemently claim they are antinationalist, will in the next sentence say how most of Middle Easts and Sub-saharan Africas problems are caused by borders that do not respect cultures/peoples

>>1499640
> Every patriotic person in a society is someone willing to sacrifice something of himself for that society.
Most of them willing to sacrifice other peoples, be it people from other nations or even from their own for pretty petty feel good reasons.

>>1500662
> you learn to admire the kinds of people who get shit done
Well, you could learn from people of other culture, if this is really a case. Napoleon was great, but if you aren't French you shouldn't be inspired by his life? This is real dedicated ignorance at this point.

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>>1498001
>I'm proud that the system which I support and live in can guarantee a high quality of life for the vast majority of its constituents and protect my civil liberties. I am proud of my countrymen for not abandoning such a system.

yes, it is so much better to be a wageslave drowning in red tape and yearly menaced of going to jail if you do not pay some taxes

fucking idiot

>>1497906
My main issue with nationalism is that it's an untenable middle ground between altruism and egoism/tribalism. It makes moral sense to want the best for everybody, and on the opposite end humans naturally care much more about themselves and their immediate family/friends/community than anyone else. Nationalism is basically altruism for one group of strangers with an arbitrary cutoff against caring for all strangers.

That said, it does make sense that some geographically bound communities would be more compatible with each other than others, leading to a supercommunity that we call a nation. In that case, nationalism does make sense on the grounds of self-interest, because common defense and trade, and my only objection to nationalism is when it's made to be a higher moral cause instead of the collective self-interest it really is.

>>1497914
>>1497906
I honestly don't understand nationalism. I feel like an autist because something evidently so common and widespread feels completely alien to me. Why would you be proud of something you had no part in, is not even real, and you happened to be part of only by chance?

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>>1502032
Because, again, that is not the definition of nationalism you moron.

Fucking hell, "HURR DURR I DON'T UNDERSTAND NATIONALISM *INSTERT LE SNARKY COMMENT*

IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND FUCKING GOOGLE IT YOU MORON. Nationalism is the belief that every culture, language or (this is not very common anymore) ethnicity should have their own state.

It has nothing to do with feeling pride
It has nothing to do with looking up to historical figures
The only role history and historical figures play in nationalism is the fact that they contribute to the general culture of a people

>>1501909
Took over 200 posts for someone to finally say this. Holy fuck, this board.

>>1497975
>doesn't have children

>>1497906
OP I love this post. It's not often you see glimmers of hope for humanity on 4chan. There's a depressing amount of right wing bullshit on this website.

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>>1502588
>Nationalism is the belief that every culture, language or (this is not very common anymore) ethnicity should have their own state.
Wow how can you be so wrong. When you, yourself, posted it's explicit meaning.

It's directly related too pride you fucking uber-retardo. It does not say EVERY culture deserves it's own nation. It's a fucking DESIRE, meaning those who feel their culture is separate (THEY HAVE FUCKING PRIDE IN THEMSELVES) form a separate and individual nation. Because those peoples see themselves as different from others - how do you not get this.

It's literal segregation.

>It has nothing to do with feeling pride
Kek. Straight up wrong, since all nationalists are prideful in their nation.

>It has nothing to do with looking up to historical figures
Kek. The peoples who are looked up to in Nationalistic nations are ones who had something to do with it's boarders/creations.

i.e. explorers and warers.

>The only role history and historical figures play in nationalism is the fact that they contribute to the general culture of a people
Why the fuck would you state the obvious, what other role are they meant to play?

Not even that anon, you are a fucking retard though.

>using one meaning of a word and using at his example
>EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG BUT ME
It doesn't work like that, bro.

>>1503551
>My definition of this word is the only one and people who say disagree are uber-retarded

>>1503533
>is there a bigger straw man?

>>1503566
>>My definition of this word is the only one and people who say disagree are uber-retarded
>even though their are interpretations of words which prove me wrong
>I am going to ignore them because I am right

Your whole argument about nationalism not being about pride has fallen apart, as their are definitions which involve explicit usage of the word pride.

However

My argument of you being a unber-retardo is holding up.

>>1503583
Replace invade with migrate and get rid of the raping your daughter part (which will eventually happen) and that's essentially leftists in Germany and a lot of Europe now.

>>1501990
that's not what he said.

>>1498493
No cus every form of ethnic nationlism is just thinly veiled racism. Which kills a society

>>1500307
>Implying my ancestors knew anything about pollution and greenhouse gases
>Implying their hate for and fear of foreigners wasn't due to intense nationalism
Consider suicide my friend.

>>1504571
>Implying racism kills societies

>>1497949
my reaction exactly
all facticity is to be disavowed

>>1499640

Nationalism =/= Collectivism

I fully believe that there are benefits to collectivized mindset, but I also believe that we should look beyond nationalism to establish this.

All nationalism does is set up completely arbitrary demarcations based on dated criteria. Why not keep the collectivist mindset, while foregoing the artificial separation of peoples?

>>1498429
Yes. There's no such thing as "ethnic french"

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>>1497980
jesus christ anon...

>>1497906

Patriotism and Nationalism are both aspects of tribalism and tribalism is an essential part of human thinking, you yourself identify with some sort of group, and all claims on the contrary on your part are lies.

Furthermore, with communism dead and buried, patriotism and nationalism are the only things we have left to counterbalance a world that is increasingly run by greedy multi-national corporations.

>>1498429
French citizenship yes
But if it's possible for french people to know you are not french, no

Your children however can become fully french so long as they fully accept french culture

>>1505341
t. Varg Vikernes

>>1505757
bumbum

>>1503551
>arguing semantics this hard.
Do you need a smaller knife to split hairs?

>>1497906
le ebul sjws are anti-nationalist so we'll be nationalist, that'll show em

>please lose your group cohesion, it is stupid
>don't pay attention to how my group sticks together, hehe

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Filty urbanites spotted.

>Do tasks around the village to help the old ladies.
>Feel good due to contributing to the village.
>Also occasionally go to a big gathering with the men from nearby villages to do bigger tasks for the common good.
>Feel a sense of brotherhood to others as you work for mutual benefit

>>1498001
Are you talking about Capitalism? Because that isn't a nation

If you're talking about America, then I'm going to need some concrete evidence that we provide a better life for more people than any other industrialized country. Especially all the ones with less wealth disparity than the USA

Regardless of where you are from, I am from America and I see people saying the same shit all the time. Despite zero evidence, we assume we are the best because we learn it from a young age. And it leads to a mindset that we can do no wrong, so we don't examine our actions in foreign policy (Colonialism in the Philippines, Vietnam war, Iraq war, etc).

>>1497935
This

>>1507865
le ebul right wingers don't like it when corporations use brown people from other nations to depress wages and undercut native citizens, so we'll be for the corporations cuz they hire brown people, that'll show em

>>1499640
How have conservacucks on /pol/ sacrificed for their country or made their country greater? Do they do volunteer work in soup kitchens? I doubt it since they really hate niggers and that would entail being near them. Are they great inventors or scientists? I doubt it since they think all institutions are controlled by le happy merchant and would thus would not work under them. Also, places like the tech industry are staffed with numerous chinks and indians which they endlessly hate on and make fun of.

No, just abut all people like you who bitch about liberals do just that, bitch about liberals all day without really much to show for it.

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>>1509247
>If you aren't willing to die for your country at the drop of a hat you're not proud of your nation.

>>1509267
>working in a soup kitchen
>working in a university as a researcher
>working in a tech company

I've seen old women from church do the first and numerous young people from india and china who barely know how to speak english do the second. The third will give you a good salary for sitting in front of a computer. How the FUCK do they entail risking your life?

Only communists hate nationalism, since it has been thwarting their plans since 1914.

>>1509311
Because surely the Soviet Union would've survived WW2 without mobilizing millions of men and motivating them to defend their country by appealing to their nationalism.

>>1498015

Most were conscripted, actually. There was even a multi-ethnic rebellion in Oklahoma against conscription.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_Rebellion

Nationalism is romantic nonsense that veterans of the war were largely disillusioned by.

>>1503551
But those definitions are all wrong. Anything that uses the word "patriotism" to define "nationalism is wrong.

Patriotism has nothing to do with nationalism. That is like saying "socialism is a moderate version of communism". No. Socialism is not a moderate version of communism and no, nationalism isn't extreme patriotism. Unfortunately enough wikipedia gives the best summary of nationalism:

"Nationalism is a shared group feeling in the significance of a geographical and sometimes demographic region seeking independence for its culture or ethnicity that holds that group together. This can be expressed as a belief or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with or becoming attached to one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related concept of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions"

Patriotism means you support your government, while nationalists have almost always been in odds against whatever government they are under.

>It's directly related too pride you fucking uber-retardo. It does not say EVERY culture deserves it's own nation. It's a fucking DESIRE, meaning those who feel their culture is separate (THEY HAVE FUCKING PRIDE IN THEMSELVES) form a separate and individual nation. Because those peoples see themselves as different from others - how do you not get this.
No. You're not getting it. Nationalism doesn't call for separate nations for cultures because of pride in cultures but because it is the best and most stable to run a state. This is acknowledged by all countries in the world, since all countries have language restrictions on citizenship and cultural integration programmes. Nationalism formed in the age of imperialism to fight it, when a man in London could decide for Indians to benefit the English. It has nothing to do with pride in your history. cont

>>1509375
>Kek. Straight up wrong, since all nationalists are prideful in their nation.
No. I'm a nationalist and don't feel any special pride for my nation. YOU support nationalist institutions and support nationalist ideology such as cultural integration and language restrictions and don't feel any pride in your nation.
>Kek. The peoples who are looked up to in Nationalistic nations are ones who had something to do with it's boarders/creations.
No. The biggest nationalist symbol in my country is a writer. In most countries the most revered nationalist symbols are usually artists, because nationalist romanticism was a massive movement.

As I stated here >>1501933 the word is still very much nationalist and is enjoying the fruits of nationalism but it isn't okay to call it nationalism even though it is blatantly nationalist.

>>1509288
I'm attending university and am paying my way through by working as a kitchen hand and some extra cash from my family, I also wash the clothes and bedding of homeless people on weekend evenings with a group of mates. Don't act like I don't do thankless acts for my community.
Just because I'm proud of my heritage doesn't make me jobless neckbeard wasting his life away on /pol/ and r/theredpill.

>be Western "leftist" intellectual
>support globalist capitalism
>support third world immigration of ultra-religious backwards populations
>hate the working class people who are the most affected by these things

Is there a bigger meme than modern leftism?

>>1509552

>liberal equals leftist meme

Okay.

>>1509375
Patriotism has nothing to do with the government. Pearse stated it both a faith and service to the Nation, it is the admirable action of Nationalism. To be a Nationalist is to hold certain beliefs, to be a Patriot is to act in service of the Nation

>>1509552
>support globalist capitalism

Wouldn't that fit perfectly within Marxist reasoning?

>>1498525
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields

>>1509580


Not if you're a Leninist.

>>1497906
You love your country (meaning your fellow citizens, monarch, etc.) because it grants you a measure of order in your life.

>>1509323
It didn't appeal to their nationalism because soviet union was a multicultural country

Encouraging nationalism would have entailed balkan-tier internal conflict

>>1497975
how can you be this pathetic? a learned man should feel a sense of duty to his country and his family.

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>>1497975
I know you're trolling but come on man, don't be intentionally retarded for easy (You)'s. Put some effort in.

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>>1497975
I'm a descendant of one of the signers of the declaration of independence so I think that kind of thing is exactly what was on his mind

>>1499405
that's the entire point of idealized nationalism or fascism though, that's the endpoint, it's collectivism

people believe in things they had nothing to do with because it makes them feel good about themselves and it helps them further the cause they believe in, that is why so many things are ingrained into "brotherhoods" and "fellowships" and "tribes", it's being able to use the word WE and US, it really makes you feel good and is not to be underestimated when used appropriately

it magically makes you stronger, akin to how placebos magically fixes your problems, as you have a place to be and people to support who also support you and long after you die your efforts will not have been in vain as your group of people and your children's children keep going on improving your group in the same manner, making you proud of both past and future achievements

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>all these spooked plebs itt

>>1513437
the concept of spooks is a spook

>>1497935
>discards their heritage because their country engaged in a war 100 years ago.
If "their heritage" is to blame for two of the worst wars the human species has ever witnessed then I think that's a reasonable reaction.

>>1497980
Nationalist Romanticism has destroyed your mind

>>1513717
It isn't you dumb cuck

>>1498157
>globalism
>left wing

You're thinking Internationalism anon. The mainstream (((left))) today has little to do with the historical left, they're basically just really nutty capitalists. And I say this as a reactionary.

>>1497906
don't forget the /pol/acks proud of white people for inventing computers so they can fap to cuck porn on it

>>1513833

it's funny how /leftypol/ thinks they are any better than /pol/

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>>1500681
>army funding got cut to shreds due to multinational entities
>can't join because quotas are filled for the next 15 years
>hurr y aren't you in the army

>>1513846
>everyone who's not /pol/ must be /leftypol/
neck yourself, faggot

>>1514051
Who are you quoting?

>>1505757
Wow, you sure showed me.

>>1509564
>>1509564
I'm sorry I put it in wrong words. I meant that, patriotism is inherently tied to the form of government. I.E You cannot be a modern american patriot and a monarchist. Just like you couldn't be a french revolutionary patriot and a monarchist.

ITT:
>Le spookz xD
>You're a faggot because you don't live solely for your own gain
>You're a faggot because nationalism is ebil!!!!!!
Spooks give meaning to life, friends. You're all poisoned by postmodern existentialist philosophy.

>>1513885
Found the guy too fat for the army.

I have you know, they are recruiting less because of increased standards in face of cuts.

>>1515281
>literally no arguments
Cool, friend

>>1515319
Enjoy your meaningless life. The true meaning of life is constructed by the individual.

>>1515427
I create meaning in my life without chimping out over shit people hardly related to me did hundreds of years ago

>>1513717
>waaaaaah people DIED!
Get over it, they were going to die anyway. At least their deaths were for something memorable, and they didn't just wither away taking up space after selling out their children's future like the peace-nik baby boomers did.

>>1515449
Then live your life and enjoy it. Many others find meaning in the collective they belong to. This often results in nationalism, patriotism, and the like. Why are you so salty? Did a nationalist hurt your feefees?

>>1515475
>having two world wars was a good thing

>>1515483
>why are you so salty
I'm not?
I generally don't get emotional over a Chuvash wine tasting board

>>1515485
>Having two world wars was a bad thing

>>1515501
What nationality are you? I'm just curious.

>>1515449
I don't recognize the meaning you have created for your own life.

In fact I don't value your life at all, and your moral judgements against "chimping out" hold no weight for me, as they come from someone who doesn't recognize the concept of morality in the first place and only emulates it for his own benefit by mirroring popular memes

>>1515510
This tbqh f a m

>>1513717
I cringed. You must be one of those nu-males I hear about.

>>1515507
American
>>1515510
>>1515521
C00l

>>1515540
Makes sense. American nationalism is dead. The country is incredibly corrupt, and uses patriotism to drive its citizens to the ranks to fight in meaningless wars. I understand why you'd be so cynical.

>>1515553
I can see why people are nationalistic but I don't think that changes anything.

>>1515572
What's your meaning? Do you life for yourself?

>>1515579
Live*

>>1515579
Powerful emotional experiences through media I consume (mostly books) along with realizing that essentially it can't be better

>>1497906
Shitposting on 4chan is much more satisfying

>>1515586
If you allow yourself to develop a sense of longing for your country's betterment, the journey towards the furthering of your people's interests can provide the most intense emotional experiences. That is, at the core, why nationalism is a thing.

>>1515603
>my country's betterment
And why not the world's?

>>1515607
Because the world does not care for your betterment, or that of those closest to you. Some people do strive for world betterment, yes. However, nationalism is experiencing a resurgence because the goal of the current establishment is the betterment of the world, which is not the betterment of its own people.

>>1515618
>the world does not care for my betterment
Hardly any less than america. Why should I care more for some hick from Alabama than for my friends from Russia?

>>1515631
The world doesn't care for their betterment either. It cares for the betterment of the establishment and the countries you really have no tie in. I'm a Ukrainian who grew up in Canada. If I were to be anything, I would be a Russian. I speak Russian and was immersed in Russian culture. I'm not really a nationalist, but I see the corrupt establishment and want to change it. In eastern Europe, western Europe, and here. This is not my meaning, but it is something I find meaning in. I think nationalism is very good for the countries of the west right now.

thanks for reading my diary buddy but yknow what I mean

>>1515652
The world and the nation don't care equally. I have no reason for nationalism and historically it ends poorly

>>1508407
Village(s) != nation.