Why did greeks associated poseidon/the sea with horses? I don't

associate*

Horses can swim.

>>1483961
a lot of animals can swim as well and boats aren't usually pulled by horses

>>1483935
Horses are fast and the defacto travelling animal/transport

>>1483935
>sea horse
>seahorse

>>1484027
> What is greek language

>>1483935
>>1483935
Theory I've read suggests it's because he was their horse god before arriving in Greece. They didn't have a word for the sea, but as it was flat like grasslands they placed it under his domain. Some people think he was a God of rivers and springs for the Proto-Greeks as well.

He is also master of earthquakes (hooves galloping, anyone?)

All of the Greek gods are amalgamations of their original deities with the new ones they encountered upon entering Greece.

Untangling the origins of each Olympian (and also the lesser gods) is virtually impossible, particularly without a better understanding of Minoan and Pre-Greek cultures.

Like, FFS, we can't even agree on whether Demeter's name is Greek or Minoan in origin, and Poseidon's etymology is also linked to hers, so how should we know what the make of the situation?

Bronze Age Greek history is a mess.

Because he's credited for creating horses.

>>1484106
>Theory I've read suggests it's because he was their horse god before arriving in Greece. They didn't have a word for the sea, but as it was flat like grasslands they placed it under his domain. Some people think he was a God of rivers and springs for the Proto-Greeks as well.
Their?

You do realize that Greeks descend like 70% from the natives there, right?

Who's their?

Because he was a Berber deity, and according to Herodotus, Berbers were the ones that taught Greeks to ride chariot horses like that.

>>1484139
How is that at all relevant? We're not discussing the genetic origins of the people, we're discussing their cultural origins.

Whatever pre-Greek cultures existed, they were lost or assimilated into Greek culture. We can not even use the words 'their', 'they', or 'them' in this discussion in reference to pre-Greek people because we have absolutely no idea what the fuck they believed or worshipped.

Like I said, even the etymology of Demeter's name, one of the gods everybody fucking raves about being Minoan and proof of a perfect matriarchal society, is disputed.

So when someone is referring to the geographical region of Greece, in a conversation about Greek civilization, 'their', 'they', and 'them' refers, correctly, to the Greek-speaking peoples who would later come to dominate the area, unless otherwise stated.

Is that clear enough for you?

>>1483935
Because Posiedon wasn't the personification of the sea, he just ruled over it. The god of the sea was the Titan Oceanus.

To simplify natural concepts are usually personified as Titans

The olympian godheads are usually personifications of concepts within human society, the unwanted children of time (the titan Chronos) which usurped the rule of nature during the titanomachy

Poseidon is a bit difficult to pinpoint, but I'd guess he'd be patron of those who labor on the (surface) land and sea, or perhaps explorers (hence the horses and trident) and he'd be prayed to in hope for protection against earthquakes and storms, which would hinder these tasks.

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>>1484139
>Theory I've read suggests it's because he was their horse god before arriving in Greece.

> their horse god before arriving in Greece.
> their horse god before arriving in Greece.
> their horse god before arriving in Greece.

>before arriving in Greece.
>before arriving in Greece.
>before arriving in Greece.

>arriving in Greece.
>arriving in Greece.
>arriving in Greece.

>arriving
>arriving
>arriving

>natives
>arriving

>>1484171
>their

Who? Greeks are still genetically native overwhelmingly

>>1483935
Pretty sure that's Aquaman

Pagan gods were real is just demon

>>1484174
Yeah but they didn't just sprout from the ground anon. They had to arrive there at some point.

>>1484157
>greek culture


I HOPE YOU REALIZE GREEK ISN'T A SYNONYM TO PIE CULTURE

>correctly, to the Greek-speaking peoples who would later come to dominate the area, unless otherwise stated.

WHO'S THE GREEK SPEAKING PEOPLE?

THE MYCENEANS WERE ALREADY A MIX THEMSELVES, YOU ARE MAKING FALSE ASSUMPTIONS.


>Is that clear enough for you

IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
CHEERS.

>>1484188
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?!

>>1484174
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_invasion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

That may be true but there was a huge cultural shift around the Aegean in the preclassical era. It's possible that Minoan was a non-Indoeuropean language and in the power vacuum they left when they vanished could have resulted in the migration of proto-Greek speakers.
Invasions in ancient times didn't even come close to completely replacing the native populations genetically, but culturally and linguistically the conquerors dominated, even though they composed a much smaller percent of the population and gene pool.

>>1483935
You don't "sea" the connection?

K I'm out.
I don't know who let in the genetic/native obsessed autistic retard but you can keep him.

>>1484203
Proto-Greeks arrived in Greece a long time before the Minoan collapse/Thera eruption. They're usually assumed to have arrived in the EHIII period I think. A period with noticeable disruption accompanied by introduction of new material elements as well as continuity of settlement (disrupted settlements rebuilt and re inhabited).

>>1484139
indo europeans

>>1484220
>indo europeans

No.

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>>1484139
Early Indo-Europeans. The horse is a central motif in all Aryan cultures.

OP:
Greek gods, as most other gods in various cultures, evolved over time, and had different roles at different times. He might have been a more land-locked god before arriving in Greece, explaining his role as "tamer of horses"

Poseidon made the Horse to impress Demeter, and had a horse child.

There are many connections between water, horses and the underworld in european folklore,

Why is this? Could be anything from seeing a connection between the horse (and chariot) and water as forms of transportation. If somebody 3k years from now find a script of Apocalypse Now they'll wonder why the fuck 1st Cavalry Division refers to flying machines, and why the army uses horse iconography, the term cavalry etc. without using horses.

>>1483935
Poseidon is not a sea-god primarily.

>>1484257
>Early Indo-Europeans. The horse is a central motif in all Aryan cultures.

Kek, as if the proto indo european invaders remained unmixed with the overwhelmingly bigger native populations

>>1484313
Not that anon, but I thought the 'Proto Indo Europeans' referred to the original group of Homo Sapiens to enter the Europe and hence the common ancestor of all the Indo-European peoples.

>>1484313
I didn't say they remained unmixed (I'm not the anon you initially responded to btw). Of course the PIE's religion mixed with the native one, and the horse symbolism is a thing that could be traced back to Poseidon's earlier role.

>>1484171
Triggered.

Nordic Aryans arrived in Ancient Greece and mixed with the black haired Pelasgian natives, who were probably middle eastern farmers.

>>1484423
No, and that would imply that Indo-Europeans originated in Europe, which isn't likely. Look at the Basque language for a possible non-Indo-European native language.

Seriously what the fuck happened to /his/?

Nobody knows what Indo-Europeans, Greeks, or Aryans are?

Nobody can get their head out of their ass long enough to try and actually understand what another poster is saying?

Am I posting in 2009 /g/? Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls?

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>>1483935
>Why did greeks associated poseidon/the sea with horses? I don't see the connection.

More importantly, why does there have to be a 'connection' between a gods disciplines?

You should actually read Greek Mythology, it was something I was infatuated with as a child but reading it later as an adult you see it's really only popular because it was written down.

Their gods are heavily flawed and make a good mythos, but not a good 'religion'. Unless of course you love reading beastiality, incest, rape, pedestry and homosex.

>>1484576
When you read into it Greek mythology sounds less like a religion and more like kissing up to the gods so they grant you favors and/or don't wreck you city. It was more a system of benefits rather than belief.

>>1484576
This guy >>1484596 has the right idea.

It wasn't much of a 'religion' as much as it was a loose system of reward and punishment associated with patronage to the gods.

The gods weren't worshipped because they were amazing beings, but because they were powerful beings.

Eleusian mysteries, Orphic mysteries, Mithraism, those were religions with actual beliefs baked into them rather than just a give/take sacrificial checkout.

>>1484596
>>1484630
It was most certainly, undeniably an organized religion. There is no disputing that fact.

I do not know why you autists latched onto that?

>>1484636
I meant religion as it stands today. Sorry to trigger you.
Yes it was organized and yes it involved worshipping certain beings. But apart from that it shows differences to what we call religion today.

>>1484636
There is no argument to be made about Greek polytheism being an 'organized religion'.

It had no unified system of worship or belief, it had no uniform religious caste, it had no individual tenants of worship, and every detail of ritual & worship varied from region to region, or even city to city.

Compare that to say, an actual organized religion like Egyptian polytheism, or any of the mystery cults I listed...

>>1484470
>imply that Indo-Europeans originated in Europe

I literally said enter, as in from somewhere else.

>>1484664
They still weren't the first people to enter Europe.
They were roughly 40,000 years late on that front.

>>1484652
>But apart from that it shows differences to what we call religion today.
You noticed I put it in bunny-ears, right. Which literally means exctly fucking this. Are you also trying to fucking omply YOU DIDN'T GET TRIGGERED? Why the fuck did you reply? You are simply wrong. In every sense of the word the Greeks had a religion of their own.

>>1484658
Kek, see above. Retard.

>it's not a religion because I say so!
>even though literally every text book about Greek Myth referred to it as a Religion
Okay, I will change, because Anon online gave me his own thoughts on a objective subject.

Retard.

The white foam that you can see on the top of a wave as it breaks on the shore are often reffered to as galloping horses

Sorry for bad English

>>1484678
Organized religion and religion are two different things.

There was nothing organized about Greek polytheism. It was a shared belief system with great variance between cities/regions.

I have already given you 4 examples of legitimate organized religions from Anatolia, Greece, and Egypt.

Greek polytheism was a religion, but it wasn't organized, and it didn't have anything in common with what we would today associate with religion.

My description here
>It wasn't much of a 'religion' as much as it was a loose system of reward and punishment associated with patronage to the gods.

is apt, and even makes use of your 'bunny ears', so flip that frown upside down.

>>1484678
Guess it was too much to hope for a discussion on the evolution of the concept of religion from /his/.

>>1484636
He means it wasn't as totalitarian.

When Romans met people with different beliefs they'd say, 'oh that sounds like our god that we call such and such, they must be the same thing' but when Abrahamics meet someone with different beliefs it was 'that's heresy you infadel, theres only one god'.

Abrahamic Religions are more political entities, God is the power, the state and he is the only one, a separate of the universe, while hellenism, although it had political aspects, was more about describing the forces of nature, like pantheism but with faces.

>>1484703
>Greek polytheism was a religion, but it wasn't organized,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

>>1484630
>It wasn't much of a 'religion'

>>1484658
>'organized religion'.

It most certainly was organzied you fucking retard. Just because they didn't go to precessions together at the same time doesn't mean it wasn't organzied. They sacrifced at certain times, they worshipped at certain times.

No one except you two retards has compared them too abrahamic or even other religions.

Saying it not like the others of the time therefore it's not a religion does not logically compute.

It's simply different.


>>1484708
Again, literally no one has compared them to any other religion, except you idiots. I honestly do not understand?

>calls Greek pantehon a religion
>gets called out
>"well it's not like the other religions"
>okay.jpeg
Literally what is the point?


>>1484706
Maybe you can start a thread about that instead of pulling out random, irrelevent points out of your fucking ass?

Are you fucking serious right now?
>post is about the degeneracy and worthlessness of Greek myth
>I WANT TO DISCUSS THE CONCEPT OF EVOLUTION OF RELIGION
Fuck off.

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>>1484756
kys

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>>1483935
its based of pic rel

>>1484313
I don't think anyone's saying PIE peoples didn't mix. Of course they did.

>>1484423
Proto-Indo Europeans are most certainly NOT the first natives of Europe. They were 'middle-eastern' (via Anatolia and Ukrainian steppe) farmers who moved into, settled in, then lived side-by-side (mostly absorbing) aboriginal Euros. There were surely clashes now and then, but evidence suggests a more slow absorption or synthesis over all.

Basque and Sami are native European languages (although Sami is the western-most branch of a Siberian group, so I guess you could debate it). The people who built Stone Henge for example were also aboriginal native Euros, but were replaced by Celts.

>>1484468
>>>/x/

>>1484470
"Not likely" is putting it mildly.

>>1484313
>Kek, as if the proto indo european invaders remained unmixed with the overwhelmingly bigger native populations
Yes, wherever Indo-Europeans went they wiped out local cultures and replaced them with their own. It must have been specular, native languages and cultures just disappeared.

>>1484878
Ukraine isn't Europe?

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>>1484163
>The god of the sea was the Titan Oceanus.

Wrong. Poseidon was the lord of the Mediterranean Sea. Oceanus was the lord of the encircling sea, ie the oceans.

Pontos was the personification of the Sea, being a Greek primordial deitiy, along with Gaia. Before the Titans.

>>1484878
>middle-eastern
The most autistic way to say Caucasian

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>>1485388
I deeply role played about 400 hours of Total War Rome 2 playing as King Mithridates of the Kingdom of Pontus. I established total Hellenistic domination of the Mediterranean, the Middle East and Western Asia centered around my capital in Seleucia, aligned with the ancient Traditions of the fertile crescent. It was among the mist satisfying gaming experiences of my life. It was like watching a sweeping historical fiction novel unfold.

The Poison King Mithridates is such an interesting fogure and I never wouls have discovered him if not for Total War

>>1484031
>implying seahorses don't look a little bit like horses

>>1484898
Evidently they haven't done a too great job of it because nobody groks enough PIE to reliably reconstruct a single well-formed sentence (no, Schleicher's fable and its ilk are complete guesstimates in terms of syntax and idiomatics) and nobody can agree on what their pantheon exactly was or reconstruct a complete PIE myth either.

>>1486984
Well, it's kind of hard without written records to reconstruct the language, I'd say linguists have done a decent job of it though
>ywn speak PIE natively