"I study history because you can learn from the past"

>>1469862
>"I study history because you can learn from the past"
Spotted the positivist.

well?

Well you can learn that ISIS are actually incredibly fucking tame in terms of cruelty in comparison to some in the past.
You can learn that even a large scale immigration crisis will never wipe out or even dominate the genetics of the natives, especially something as pitiful as 1 million immigrants to 700 million Europeans

You can learn that Eurabia will never happen, foreign invaders only achieve cultural dominance if the local culture is weak and unappealing, in all cases where it is strong and appealing, the foreign rulers end up assimilating. This is clearly happening today too because alcohol, sex and parties are much more appealing to Muslim youth than 5 prayers a day, no sex and banned music.

So all in all if you take the past as an example for now we have little to worry about.

The bigger worry is terror attacks, they have not occurred in the past and there only seems to be one way of dealing with it which is complete surveillance of everyone.

>>1469902
>they have not occurred in the past
?????????

Well there was that thing with Romans and Goths.

>>1469902
You're not being honest. Why are you understating the dangers Europe faces ?

>incredibly fucking tame compared to some
No. They are certainly not the cruelest, they lack sophistication for that, but they're not tame by any standard (disregarding your stupid hyperbole). Burning people alive is always a sure way to rank high in cruelty, as does killing civilian men and taking the women as slaves after designating them as the enemy.

>large scale immigration can't dominate the locals
What about the americas, Taiwan, or currently Tibet & Xinjiang ? Or if you want immigration not backed by state power, Detroit and Texas (Mexicans losing their majority once, and now "non-hispanic whites" following their example) ?
History shows it can.
Though the only situation comparable to Europe is Texas (and other US states) in the last decades, as mass immigration in a populated location in the past was always conflictual.
Also, it's not one million immigrants. There were 1,2 millions asylum seekers last year. But the phenomenon is continual and involves more than refugees.
For example, more than 25% of the French population between 25 and 54 is an immigrant or has at least on immigrant parent.
25% of the newborns have at least one parent who immigrated from outside the EU. About a third of the newborns are identified as having two parents originating from Africa (distantly or not), the middle east, India or south Italy.
They did not replace the locals yet, but they're well on their way. If the trends do not change, they will dominate the country within 50 years. But the trends might change the wrong way, as africa's population is set to quadruple in this century.

>>1470013

While he's wrong about that, modern broadcast technology makes terrorism as a means to scare the shit out of an entire country / civilization a lot easier. Terrorism has taken on a new aspect in the last few decades.

>>1469862
ISIS vs Israel when?

>>1469862
That arbitrarily setting borders after the Ottoman collapse really did lead to years and years of regional instability that stunts progress, similar to post-colonial Africa

>>1470166
>>1469902
And I would agree that eurabia won't happen, but not for the reasons you mention : it's just that Arabs, on their own, can't become the majority in Europe. Unless we change policies to welcome them all. They don't have the demographic momentum.

As for cultural assimilation, you are right regarding past conquerors. But wrong when you say that European culture is strong and appealing to Arab immigrants and their children.
They don't come as conquerors, they don't become the new elites. As such, they're much more insecure about their culture than for example the matches were, they feel the need to defend it.
The result is that children of Muslim immigrants are significantly more religious and observant than their parents.
And those who are tempted by and who try sex alcohol and parties can also afterwards become in a similar reaction the most radical, like some of the terrorists that recently made the news.

So all in all remember that taking the past as an example for now doesn't mean picking whatever event that seems to have gone the way you want things to go now and ignore the differences between the situation then and now.

>>1469862
>Saudi Arab
>ethnicity

>>1470264
Remind us how many wars did Syria and Iraq fought over their border ?
Do you think following religious divides to draw political borders leads to more stability, and that religious coexistence should not be expected ?

>>1470289
>matches
mandchus, sorry

File: 1469286748981.gif (2MB, 325x218px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 325x218px

>>1469902
>1 million immigrants to 700 million Europeans
>implying they are equally distributed across Europe

ISIS wouldn't be nearly such an issue if KSA wasn't funding Wahhabism all over the globe and having a Cold War against Iran.

Sure, Islamic radicals would still exist and the Syrian civil war would still be going on, but KSA's propaganda is the fertilizer for the worst Sunni extremists who would be getting nowhere without billions in oil money behind them.

These angsty young Muslims would just be joining gangs instead of becoming jihadis, like niggers in the U.S.

For immigration, look to the Slavic takeover of Roman territory south of the Danube in the 6th century. Not exactly alike, but Rome struggled to reconquer the area likely in part because the Slavs had little history with Rome and thus didn't pine for them to take over.

>>1470289
Not to mention that Most want to go back to Syria once the civil War ends

Ofcourse I am talking about Syrians, Maghrebis and the likes who want gibsmedat not so sure

>>1470264
The boarders were not arbitrary, the basically followed the administrative units used by the Ottomans.

Iraq should have been partitioned or at least federalized after the U.S. invasion though. The insurgency and their subsequent defection to ISIS was pretty predictable.

>>1469902
>1 million immigrants to 700 million Europeans

You don't understand, do you? Let's say that 1 million everntually gains citizenship and invites all his family to the country, now imagine how the demographics will look after several decades of their insane reproduction rates, we'd be looking at a 20-30% muslim EU in a relatively short amount of time.

>>1469902
America's 320 million started with a few million immigrants.

>>1470370
>the basically followed the administrative units used by the Ottomans.

Iraq is formed out of a modified division of the three previous Ottoman provinces.

Basra, Baghdad, and Mosul.

Respectively they went: Shia, Sunni, mix (Kurds/Assyrians).

>>1470427
Cont*

Now tell me how such a nation is supposed to be stable?

The Ottomans kept them separate for a reason.

>"I study history so i can learn from the past mistakes"
ftfy

>>1470430
> Now tell me how such a nation is supposed to be stable?
It's easy. The only requirement is for its inhabitants not to kill and oppress each other.

Would it be naive to assume that co-existance is impossible between Wahhabism and the West?

How would it be possible to eradicate Wahhabism realistically?

>>1470430
It was obviously a huge mistake but I was just pointing out that the boarders were not arbitrary.

The only option for Iraq to work would have been a federal republic with essentially those 3 states, and that is still the best option.

>>1470791
Since it all comes from the Saudis, and they need their oil money to spread Wahhabism, just taking the Shia-dominated land around the Persian Gulf from the Saudis would cripple them. Once you've also leveled Qatar and the UAE you've demolished the money supply and they'll fade away.

Making the Hejaz region (with Mecca and Medina) independent or part of Jordan or something and you'd kill their relevance completely.

>>1470835
I should specify; the Shia region on the Gult coast has like 95% of Saudi Arabia's oil. That's why losing it would cripple them. With Iran and Iraq being Shia neighbors, they could provide the muscle to take that land, if the USA would stop backing the Saudis.

>>1469862
West's time is over.

>>1469882
Spengler denialist fuck off.

>>1470835
>>1470843
I think you'll be deeply disappointed by what the Shiites do with the oil.

>>1469862
I was just thinking that the Mytilenian debate almost perfectly reflected the modern far-right populist vs liberal elite attitude towards muslim immigrants and ISIS in the wake of the terror attack sprees. In fact it only needs to be rewritten and the names changed to be perfectly serviceable satire for current events.

>>1469902
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire
Ring ring

>>1470391
>Syrians and Western Muslims
>insane reproduction rates

>>1469902
>what is fucking america

>>1471002
>western muslims, whatever kind of doublethink that is

literally had those back in the sixties and seventies, now their 2nd or 3nd generation offspring are fucking everything up because they hate us. And they hate us because they are not us and feel rejected and alone, without engaging in several blogposts of content: multiculturalism doesn't work and has never worked and is actually only one of the only consistencies which has proven itself to be a trueism time after time after time.

This fucking fallacy that the only people who are emigrating to the West are dentists and doctors has to fucking stop. I am fine with giving these people shelter but we shouldn't by any means allow them to build a live and a home here. If not for our safety then it is for their own and their children's safety. They should, all of them, return to the land of their ancestors where they feel that they belong.

>>1469862

Ottomans were sick in Europe, the Middle East was pretty peaceful for the C19th. The C20th and early C21st are outside the normal pattern.

It is sometimes said that 'Islam has bloody borders'; it's true, because /all/ states have bloody borders, and peaceful interiors.

>>1471248
>are outside the normal pattern
>normal pattern
The only people more bloodthirsty than Middle Easterners are Europeans

>>1470013
Terrorism is a modern phenomenon in the manner it is performed today. Brutality in the past tended to be done by actual state bodies of of conquerors to pacify the populace.
>>1470166
>No. They are certainly not the cruelest, they lack sophistication for that, but they're not tame by any standard (disregarding your stupid hyperbole). Burning people alive is always a sure way to rank high in cruelty, as does killing civilian men and taking the women as slaves after designating them as the enemy.
You don't need to go far back in history to reach a time when all of that and worse was extremely common place. ISIS does one burning and the world goes mad but people used to be burned every week in the past.
Your nation examples are small nations with little population taking in huge numbers, Europe is not the same.
>>1470289
Muslim children aren't more radical and religious, the majority become less religious, it's just those who do take the hard-line approach, which is literally the Islamic version of becoming a /pol/kid white racist, stand out the most.
>>1470391
No we wouldn't be, even if they did that it wouldn't even be 2 million because not every one will do that. Their reproduction rates are only higher in the first generation. Higher reproduction is a part of life in developing countries, it doesn't fit developed countries and so ends, regardless of microculture.
>>1470419
Yes and the natives all died.
>>1470981
Because Europe is fraught with civil war and despotic emperors and invading armies, and of course Europes military is 90% muslim soldiers right? No.
>>1471223
A nation where 99% of the natives died.

>>1471263
>>1471263

Or Mongols.

Or Chinese.

Could be plenty of peoples. It's impossible to rank.

>>1471271
>people used to be burned every week in the past.
That doesn't make today's burnings tame. It does not.

>Your nation examples are small nations with little population taking in huge numbers, Europe is not the same.
The US are not a small nation and the non-hispanics white will become a minority soon without a doubt.
It will take longer for western europe, but it is certainly possible.
The comparison with american natives stands too : yes, they died, but europe's native population is also set to decrease quickly. They're at an average of 1,5 children per woman, which mean every generation is 25% smaller than the previous one. We don't need diseases.

>Muslim children aren't more radical and religious
In europe, yes they are.
Check it out and stop stating your expectations as if they were facts.
See that for example
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/living-apart-together-british-muslims-and-the-paradox-of-multiculturalism

>>1471271
>which is literally the Islamic version of becoming a /pol/kid white racist, stand out the most.
Only, y'know, /pol/lacks don't blow up people or chop them up or run them over or gun them down.
>Because Europe is fraught with civil war and despotic emperors and invading armies, and of course Europes military is 90% muslim soldiers right? No.
For now. Are you that stupid that you don't realize we're talking of the future? Most adolescent Europeans are pacifist, and with each generation the number grows. How long before those jobs are relegated to the Muslims?

>>1471394
/pol/acks don't share the same material circumstances as someone fighting in a war-torn nation. Do you really think they'd be any different if there were civil war in the US?

>>1471422
Most of the guys blowing themselves up in europe these days do not come from war-torn nations.

>>1469862
Come to think of it, as an entirely pro-immigrationist, if we're looking back at History, when immigrants from the periphery with different cultures arrived en masse at Rome's borders it didn't exactly go well.

>"I study history because you can learn from the past"
I think many historians claimed the same thing and still many civilizations fell.
Let me describe current situation: Europeans are in moral crisis, most of them accepted relativism of all kind which is in contradiction to Christianity, besides that Europeans are less religious, caring less and less for Christian identity (which is essential for European civilization) and becoming more into consumerism. It's all about job, business, career, finances, Europeans are tied with so many things that they lose interest in things which they cannot understand or have benefit from right away, if God cannot help them with bills they lose interest. Life has become too complexed for reproduction: firstly society forces you through education to get some diploma for specialization, later you search for stable job and push career, settling down and getting married comes (too) late... European economy needs people to run it. Since European demography is worse, there are two solutions: bring new people or improve birth rate. Improving birth rate requires a lot of time, too much for current economy which needs people right away, and second is very simple solution, which is happening at right now. I think it will continue like this, many more immigrants will arrive and live in Europe, natives won't increase birth rate and will mix with immigrants, terrorism will continue (not in large scale, I guess that EU will make strict security and spying) in minor acts like murders but public won't react at all and media will say "an isolated case". Several generations later immigrants will accept some European values and identity, natives are just a minority.