>God created Man in his image >Man is wicked and sinful

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>>1467858
F R E E W I L L

>>1467858
>be omnipotent omniscient eternal one and only God the creator
>anon on 4chin presumes to have you all figured out

>>1467858
>Man punishes Man
>God punishes Man

I fail to see your point

>>1467858
>confirmed for detached weeb cosplayer
ffs just because you LOOK like someone doesn't mean you have their wisdom, temperament, or superpowers

>>1467858
Xtianity is made up horseshit, dude.

>>1467864
>be omnipotent
>still punish your own creations for doing what you knew they would do because you made them with the flaw you're punishing them for having

Sounds autistic desu

>>1467940
So? His creation, he can do whatever the fuck he wants

>>1467940
>Call God autistic
>God damns you to Hell to suffer eternally

u sure showed Him :^)

>>1467862
>hurr I am an omnipotent God but for some reason I can't make free will compatible with perpetual goodness

>>1467962
It's not that he can't, it's that he doesn't. God is the ultimate deadbeat dad.

>>1467962
>can't
It's "won't"
How about you just be good of your own will if Heaven's that important you
Literally nothing stopping you except your own choices
You have the ability to choose to not be shit you know

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>>1467970
Don't talk about Dad like that.

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Why does God deserve all of the praise when good things happen but none of the blame when bad things happen?

Not necessarily that he causes it, but if something negative were to happen that I could have prevented but did not, am I not complicit?

>trying to make sense of abrahamic religions

Don't even bother. The desert heat created some fucked up thought processes.

>>1467858
oh my child how little you understand.

>>1467989
I tip my tip to thine worldly wisdom, monsieur

>>1467972
If it's "won't" and not "can't", then God chooses evil to exist, since he just as easily could have chosen otherwise and still maintained free will. In which case God isn't all good.

>>1468011
He lets us choose for ourselves
It's called delegating
Standard practice in an enterprise this big
There's what 7 billion of us, that's a lot of work for one god

>>1467986
No actually. For example a person who fails to prevent a robbery is not guilty of a crime.

>>1468011
Permitting something is not the same as actively willing it.

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>>1468018
>7 billion of us, that's a lot of work for one god
>Implying God didn't create the Aliens

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>>1468021

Okay, but if it is possible for a man to do so safely and with a one-hundred-percent guarantee of success, yet he does not and others suffer as a result, did he do the right thing?

>>1468021
The person who failed to prevent the robbery didn't create the robber with absolute 100% certainty that he would rob people.

>>1468021
>Permitting something is not the same as actively willing it.
Where does omniscience fit into this? God knew which people would commit genocide and where/how they'd do it, if he didn't then why is he called God?

>>1468021
You can go to jail if you don't save people when you're able to

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>>1468040
Do what?

>>1468056
>Equating legality with morality
>Living in a Euroshit country where you're required to intervene

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>>1468074
>he wants to live in a country where people don't help each other

>>1468044
Even if that person did know the robber was going to rob, the robber is still the one choosing to rob.

>>1468047
God knows everything and allows people to act on their will.

>>1468056
God saves all who want to be saved.

>>1468080
People do help each other. We're just not legally required to do it.

>>1468087
>Even if that person did know the robber was going to rob, the robber is still the one choosing to rob.
I am trying to figure out how you can think like this, but I just can't. If God is the omniscient creator then he is the start of all chains of events. He knows with absolute certainty what will happen before he does anything. How is he not at fault for creating people that murder and steal? He also creates the conditions that make them the way they are. He creates their brains that make them believe that these things are good ideas. If I trained a dog to attack people, would I not be at fault when the dog killed someone? The dog still has free will, but I conditioned him to act a certain way.

>>1468089
Ikr

Requiring people to do good deeds at the threat of punishment if they don't? Nuts amirite ;^)

>>1468109
Does God know though? Or does he simultaneously know every possible future you might choose, but it's still up to you to choose

>>1467858
He created Man in his image, but my understanding is that original sin is supposed to have messed things up.

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>>1468067

Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (or take the bait) and assume you really couldn't understand what I am implying:

If I were to go to a store and a guy pulled a gun on the cashier. Immediately, though some freak occurrence, I have two visions that occur immediately in the span of a few milliseconds:
>In the first:
I freeze and watch the events unfold: the robber grabs the money and the cashier tries to be brave and fight him to which the robber panics and shoots the cashier. He immediately leaves with the money and I live.
>In the second:
I hit the robber over the back of the head with something I'm holding as he is reaching for the money and he passes out, only to be arrested later and serves time for his crime and nothing bad ever happens from that point forward.

The visions are so vivid that I know with absolute certainty that the events in both will come true depending on the action I take. Of my own free will I choose the first path, the cashier dies and the robber gets away. Did I do the right thing?

>>1468121
>Does God know though?
If he doesn't then he isn't all knowing by definition.

>>1468139
>does he simultaneously know every possible future you might choose
If every future is potential and he knows them all, he knows everything

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>>1468131
You didn't commit a crime.

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>>1468146
What are you not getting here? If you toss a coin you know that it's either going to land heads up or tails up. That doesn't make you omniscient. Omniscience would require knowledge of all possible futures as well as the ability to tell what the actual future would be.

>>1468152

That isn't what I asked. Did I do the right thing?

the fall happens after man is created in god's image. they're unrelated

god doesn't punish man anyway, he punishes sin, it just happens to be in man. but he punishes satan as well, the origin of sin. god wants to save man

>>1468160
What are you not getting here?
Future doesn't exist yet, mate, it's an abstract concept
Hence why it's called future
How can God know something that does not exist?

>>1468111
>requiring people to do good deeds

reminder that catholics are apostates

>>1468109
God created the world without sin although the potential for sin existed. Adam choose to sin which created the current fallen state that we're in. God didn't "train" Adam to sin.

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>>1468165
Define "right."

>>1468011
>he just as easily could have chosen otherwise and still maintained free will. In which case God isn't all good.

untrue. god is good which is why one should choose good (god) over evil

>>1468169
>How can God know something that does not exist?
Because he's omniscient. You cannot be omniscient if you lack knowledge of any one thing.
The definition is very simple
Omniscient: Knowing everything

>>1468177

Judaeo-Christian right. The thing God would expect of us. As in, on the day of Judgement, He would be pleased with and support my actions as having done the right thing.

>>1468174
God is omniscient. God created Adam, Eve, the apple, Satan, and the garden. He knew how these elements would interact with one another. He knew Adam would sin before he created him. If he did not know this then he is not all knowing. If he did not see these events unfold as they happened then he is not all seeing.

>>1468183
Yes, knowing everything
Do you know what's not everything? Things that aren't
Things that don't exist, that are non-existent
Non-existence isn't a state of being, it's the lack of thereof
Non-existent knowledge isn't there to be known
It's pretty fucking simple
Omniscience means knowing everything that there is to know
You cannot know what isn't to be known

>>1468191
I am not sure if you're trolling or genuinely retarded.

http://www.gotquestions.org/God-know-future.html

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>>1467858

>need nothing
>ignore nothing
>still do things

Why?

>>1467858
>Make a box that looks like a car
>Box doesn't work and isn't roadworthy
>Don't try to drive with box

It's almost like being in somethings image doesn't mean anything except that you look like it.

>>1468196
Jesus is God
So God basically promised to do something later
Wow, you convinced me

>>1468188
he still didn't make adam sin even if he permitted it. ultimately it is in god's plan that sin is defeated even if it is allowed to exist. keep in mind though that sin was effectively judged and destroyed on the cross; since then it's just about getting people to accept the spirit of christ i.e. god

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>>1468208

>>1468216
god didn't create man and woman with original sin

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>>1468208

.

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>>1468184
I'm not God.

>>1468219
forgot to use the term 'magical sky wizard'

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>>1468222

Based on your knowledge of the Judaeo-Christian God, hazard a guess.

>>1468224
Also, desert death cult worshiping a kike on a stick

>>1468216
>>1468219

i think it's funny you believe both these criticisms of christianity even though they clearly contradict each other, but say the bible is wrong because it is contradictory

atheism sure is rigorous

God doesnt make sense, deal with it.

>>1468188
Yes He knew Adam would sin and He also knew that He would redeem humanity Himself on the cross. Adam is responsible for his own sin.

>>1468199
Love creates out of love.

>>1468219
You can use that same logic to make fucking gravity sound irrational, that some magical force in the sky stops things from getting too high in case they try to escape from giant balls of lava and dirt floating in space.

This is a pretty well known fallacy, appeal to ridicule or ad absurdo, and is objectively not an argument.

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>>1468228
Your guess is as good as mine.

>>1468234
>Create a problem
>Solve it
>"You're welcome!"
Alright.

>>1468243
I must have missed the point where God took Adam by the wrist and forced that apple in his mouth

>>1468243
Adam created the problem.

>>1468241

A little disappointed that you wouldn't commit but I'm not exactly surprised.

Then my guess is no, I didn't do the right thing. I'd wager you would agree, if you were honest with yourself.

>>1468247
>create beings with the capacity to do wrong
>create temptation
>act all shocked and mad when your creations choose wrongly

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>>1468256
What does that have to do with God?

>>1468234

Love is a human need. It is ingrained in our genes.
Does god have genes? Does god have hormones? Does god have a metabolism? Does he/she have a brain?

A perfect being cannot love, nor can he hate. Those are reactions of the brain to certain stimuli.

A perfect, immaterial, omniscient all-knowing being would be just like a ROCK. It would just lay there, doing nothing because unlike us, mortals with a fluctuating metabolism, it requires nothing. Not even the things we think as "immaterial" like love, pride, friendship, etc.

>>1468248
And God created Adam knowing he would sin. See the dog analogy.

>Yeah but he didn't train Adam
He did. He created his conditions and made him in such a way that he would sin. The omniscient creator is at fault for the doings of his creations.

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>>1468262
Love predates humanity. God Himself is a loving relationship between three persons; the Father and Son love each other through the Holy Spirit. Love creates out of love.

>>1468247
Well, there's the part where he knew everything and thus knew that Adam was gonna eat that apple and still chose to put that tree there.

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>>1468267
If we're gonna go with the dog analogy, God literally trained Adam not to eat the fruit but Adam chose to be disobedient.

>>1468260
So you're arguing God would be a more benevolent being if you were currently a slave lacking completely in free will?

>>1468267
Where exactly in the Bible does it say that God knows and individually creates the decisions humans will make in the future? The concept of free will shows he doesn't.

Humans were originally created unable to do anything but good, until the serpent tricked them into believing that the apple was just a normal apple and eating it wouldn't be too bad, which was original sin and brought it to mankind.

>>1468272
Doesn't work. They wouldn't love each other because love is driven in large part by something unfulfilled in the person that drives them towards the companionship of others. A perfect being could not be unfulfilled in any capacity. God would have no motive to "love."

>>1468261

Hmm... a little disappointing that you couldn't make the connection yourself, but this is 4chan after all.

Well, for the record, I'm not an atheist but it's something I've been wondering: If someone is suffering here on earth and God does nothing to help them (though he absolutely could), is he not complicit in their suffering?

There are a lot of feel-good, "footprints"-esque platitudes to justify His decision to not act and it is easy to simply say that God abides suffering on Earth because it is simply a test and the tribulations of Earth won't matter in His Kingdom, but I feel sometimes that if I could help everyone on Earth, no matter who they are, I would. If I could keep the ones I loved free from pain, I would. I just sometimes wonder why God doesn't do the same.

>>1468272

Love is the need to help another person because he/she is important to you, either because of a familial relationship, or other social relationships.

This need, like all other needs, comes from a deficiency on ones part. I feel hungry because I require nutrients. I feel thirsty because I require water. I feel fear because I require security.
Love is more dificult to explain, but it is not immaterial and abstract. It is the need to help others who are key to ones biological success, that is, reproducing. We love our sexual partners and the resulting offspring so that they may thrive and reproduce as well. This is a biological imperative that comes from millions of years of evolution and it is ingrained in our DNA.
God shouldnt even have DNA.

>>1468280
>God trained Adam not to
No, he told him not to. He created a series of events that caused him to sin. This is conditioning but in a less direct manner.

>>1468281
>And then the serpent
That was created by God.

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>>1468282
You err by assuming that God is identical humanity. God's love is its own motive; He loves out of love.

>>1468282
>love is driven in large part by something unfulfilled in the person that drives them towards the companionship of others

You literally just pulled this out of your ass, and even by your definition, it works. Without any of the three aspects God isn't whole, yet the three are separate.

>>1468191
>he thinks time is just a line
>he thinks God can't work outside of time

You forgot that God is supposed to be all powerful.

>>1468298
>That was created by God.

The serpent by most understandings was not created to be a traitor, and as such is being tormented in the lake of fire. You're running off this strawman that God knows which action every being will take, which isn't said anywhere in the Bible. Provide a source for it or fuck off.

You forgot the whole free will thing my friend

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>>1468295
God sends the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, to help those who are suffering. However most people choose not to accept His help.

>>1468297
>a universal, unconditional love that transcends, that serves regardless of circumstances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape

>>1468309
>God is all knowing
>But he doesn't know some things
k

>>1468299

But if you're a human as well, How can you understand that kind of love? How can you tell me what it would want or not want? How are you able to put on god's shoes?

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>>1468298
No God literally conditioned Adam not to sin by telling him not to eat the fruit and explaining that he surely would die if he did. Yet Adam chose to place Eve's will above God's will. Adam is responsible.

>>1468315

God has promised Hell to non-believers so no unconditional love there.

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>>1468319
I can't understand it but I can experience it.

>>1467858
>God created Man in his image
thats a mis-translation
God is represented as "I am who I am" which can mean a number of things actually but is often believed to mean (in the context of other passages) that God isn't knowable in a normal context (hence the lack of effigies of him).

>>1468327

Why would god ingrain Adam's DNA with the need for socialization and love, if he knew it would translate into Adam asking for a partner? And then that partner asking for the forbidden apple?

Humans are wise enough not to indulge their babies every wish, why couldn't God be as wise?

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>>1468328
God loves even the damned but He is also perfectly just and if sinners chose not to accept Christ's payment for their sins on their behalf they will have to pay for them themselves.

>>1467962
He can, it's just man continues to choose evil.

At some point, the boys have to grow up and take responsibility for their actions to be men. We can't run around acting like a victim and blaming everything else when it's us who out of free will make the choices that bring forth the suffering and exploitation.

But you look at matter on the subatomic level and nothing can exist without being in accordance. Which is synonymous with man, we can't exist without living in accordance.

The book of Enoch points this out, that we can look at nature and see how it doesn't rebel, nature does exactly as it was designed to do. It does God's will and it does not rebel. Yet man is the opposite. Man rebels when he doesn't choose God's will. And all the people who just want peace, they don't even realize their desiring God's exact will. Because it's in us. Some know this, some actually think God is the bad guy though, which is deception. The worlds whole purpose is to separate man from his God, from his creator.

So I mean, the whole argument that blames God is pretty much futile. We have a choice to make, granted it's difficult to choose good all the time....but God knew this, which is why He is the embodiment of mercy and forgiveness, God just waits at the door for people to stop messing around get serious. That's the whole purpose of Jesus Christ. Died for every sin done and not yet done. Giving every man a choice to return home or.....choosing that 'other' and lesser being for their god. Our adversary..

The disconcerting thing about that choice, is that all the suffering on earth...people think it ends here, when the truth is it can just carry over. The evil you see on earth, is just lite-version of the potential evil on the other side.

People really under value jealousy and hatred, if a man, just a man has jealousy and hatred toward you, and if permitted was able to have his way with you....how much more worse from a enemy that was designed stronger than you.

>>1468327
>Create conditions with the knowledge that they will create a certain outcome
>Tell guy not to do a thing even though you know that it will have no real effect on him
>totally blameless
These mental gymnastics are quite impressive.

>>1468191

I was kinda with you until this. This isn't a very good line of thinking and it limits God's power. If God doesn't know the future, or as you say, that which does not exist because it has not happened yet, then Revelation is conjecture and the events and promises there-in are not truths.

I think it is better to admit that God knows everything and made a situation where he created beings knowing full well what would happen. In the end, he knows that a certain number of his creations will have walked his path and will be worthy to stand with him again in the end.

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>>1468334
Adam could have refused Eve and then God would have simply made another woman for him. Nothing about Adam's need for companionship required him to eat the fruit.

>>1468315

I should very much like to feel that comfort one day; I have never experienced it despite my faith.

>>1468337
>if sinners chose not to accept Christ's payment for their sins on their behalf they will have to pay for them themselves.
I don't see how eternal torment is a fair payment for even a lifetime full of sin.

>>1468346
Nothing about God required God to punish Adam and all of humanity for eating a fruit. All he did was ear a fruit...its only bad because God said it is.

>>1468346

God wrote Adam's DNA molecule by molecule. He knew the exact, precise level of Adam's willpower, Adam's need for socialization, etc.

He locked a cat inside a small room with a mouse and then got angry that the cat ate the mouse.

>it is another "christfags struggles with the problem of evil"

>>1468319
Coz he made us in his image, duh

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>>1468341
>Adam does something God explicitly tells him not to do
>God is at fault

You win the gold medal.

>>1468331
>thats a mis-translation

Really? Cause this is what the Septuagint says:
>kαὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον, kατ᾿ εἰkόνα Θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν, ἄρσεν kαὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς.
(And God made man, according to the icon/image of God he made him, male and female he made them.)

And this is what the Hebrew Tanakh says:
>wayyiḇərā’ ’ĕlōhîm ’eṯ-hā’āḏām bəṣaləmwō bəṣelem ’ĕlōhîm bārā’ ’ōṯwō zāḵār ûnəqēḇâ bārā’ ’ōṯām:
(And ’Ĕlōhîm shaped the man in his image: in the image of ’Ĕlōhîm he shaped him. Male and female he shaped them.)

>>1468317
Provide literally a single source, you've just made a statement and assumed it's right. Show where it says God knows literally everything that is, has been and will be.

>>1468348
It's not eternal, read revelations, it's generally considered to only be a very specific sort of person that burns forever.

>>1468352
Why argue about this if you haven't even read the first few pages of the first chapter of the Bible?

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>>1468348

God never promised eternal torment. Simply a second, and final death; nothing more or less than what they expected would happen anyway by rejecting Him.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8

>>1468303
Then he's not perfect. If he can't be completely fulfilled on his own, he is not perfect as a perfect being would be in no way lacking.

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>>1468348
An unrepentant heart infinitely produces sin and therefore an infinite punishment is appropriate.

>>1468352
The wages of sin is death and God makes the rules.

>>1468354
A cat in a small room with a mouse needs to eat it in order to survive. Adam did not need to eat the fruit.

>>1468303
>You literally just pulled this out of your ass

You have a better definition?

>>1468373
>The wages of sin is death and God makes the rules.

So, you freely admit that God is a petty tyrant.

>>1468369
God is his three aspects, yet the three aspects aren't themselves God. This is basic stuff anon.

>>1468374
A strong feeling of affection, you're just assuming love comes from the same place for everyone, and that it only exists for people.

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>>1468382
No because tyranny is predicated on injustice and God is perfectly just. However I do freely admit that God is omnipotent and defines what is good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma#The_second_horn

>>1468382
How old are you? Do you think that when you parents say you have to go to bed by a certain time or you'll be punished that they're petty tyrants?

God is the Lord, but it's incredibly immature to go "Waah, I'm not in charge so god is evil!".

>>1468383
>three """"aspects""""
Nice Sabellian heresy you've got there. I hope you meant three persons.

>>1468391
Parents punish to help you learn and make you a better person. God's punishment is eternal, so it does not.

>>1468383
>God is his three aspects, yet the three aspects aren't themselves God. This is basic stuff anon.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you just fucked it up. The three aspects are God, but are not each other, each is distinct, but each is still very much God.

>A strong feeling of affection, you're just assuming love comes from the same place for everyone, and that it only exists for people.

You're only looking at the feeling, not the motive that drives us towards it. Why does a friend love another friend? Because without them they would not fulfil their need for companionship. Why does a man love a woman? Because without her, he would not fulfil his need for a mate. Why does a parent love their child? Because without them they would not satisfy their parental instinct. You see here that love is born out of something unfulfilled.

>you're just assuming love comes from the same place for everyone, and that it only exists for people.

I'm evaluating it from the only perspective I have. Your proposed alternative I'm sure is to just listen to a priest and trust that rag of a book without thinking.

>>1467892
>xtianity

Catoholic raised atheist here, I hope this is a meme, sounds like those retarded made up words the "progressive" american university students make up.

>>1468391
How old are you? Do you think that your parents are implicitly good and entirely fair in everything they've ever done or decided? What kind of weak-willed, pathetic, wretched, contemptible, piece of shit are you?

Understanding the role of legitimate authority is part of maturing, but God does nothing to display his legitimacy, and mostly just acts out the demented fantasies of a tyrant. Anyone with even a shred of human decency and empathy can see that.

>>1468396
It helps humanity as a whole learn.

>>1468404
God's legitimacy is grounded in the fact that He created the universe.

>>1468413
A crackhead who leaves their child to starve also created that child. Are they implicitly legitimate in that? Creating something does not imply absolute legitimacy in how you conduct yourself towards it. Why are you so servile? Hoping to save up some goodboy points?

>>1468399
X has been used as an abbreviation for Christ (Χριστος) since the 4th century AD.

>>1468393
I hope you realise that wording is irrelevant and that God isn't a person. The holy spirit isn't a person either.

>>1468396
No, punishment is there as a consequence to stop you from doing something, it's an aversion technique. Divine punishment gives you a reason to not do these things.

>
Actually, I'm pretty sure you just fucked it up. The three aspects are God, but are not each other, each is distinct, but each is still very much God.


The three aspects themselves aren't God from my understand, it's the combination of them we know as God.

>You're only looking at the feeling, not the motive that drives us towards it

Because that's different for everyone.
You don't necessarily love someone you mate with, or a friend, and you can love even if you have no need for extra companionship.

>I'm evaluating it from the only perspective I have. Your proposed alternative I'm sure is to just listen to a priest and trust that rag of a book without thinking.

No, my alternative is to not project your perspective onto everything and everyone else.

>>1468404
>Do you think that your parents are implicitly good and entirely fair in everything they've ever done or decided?

No, because my parents are human and are as such imperfect. God is not. Yet as a child, you know less than your parents do, and as such should obey them. Or have you never seen kids acting like they know heaps about the world because they're 12 now and all grown up, despite knowing nothing?

>What kind of weak-willed, pathetic, wretched, contemptible, piece of shit are you?

>God does nothing to display his legitimacy,

If you don't feel as if he's real, then you have nothing to worry about. And if you do feel like he's real, then literally creating everything and an infinite love and forgiveness for humanity is a pretty good reason why he's legitimate.


You need to drop all the emotional buzzwords, too.

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>>1468417
If we're going to use human analogies, a father has rights over his children. However those rights can be forfeited in circumstances such as the one you mentioned but God's right over His creation has not been forfeited.

I serve God because He served me.

>>1468417
Being the literal creator for something is a good reason why you should be in charge of it anon, yes. Or do you think that me coming alone to something cool you built and going "Yeah I'd treat it better it's mine now" is a legitimate reason for why you no longer own something?

>>1468359
"man in his image" still hasn't been confirmed as a correct meaning for the phrase. Because of passages where God refuses to reveal his form, and refuses to let humans know his name, and refuses the usage of idoltry. Its important to note the significance of knowing the name and visage of a god in that period.

>>1468421
>God isn't a person. The holy spirit isn't a person either.
The concept of "person" was literally first invented to describe the three hypostases of the Trinity.

>>1468365
Disobeying god is a sin....but all he did was eat a fruit. I fail to see how the punishment is equal to the crime. Why argue if you're just gonna ignore what I actually write? retard

>>1468428
>but God's right over His creation has not been forfeited.

That's for me to judge.

>>1468429
In a practical sense beyond the legal, you only own that which you exert control over. God hasn't exerted any control over this rock, so we get to decide the rules. That is if he existed, which he doesn't.

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>>1468438
>That's for me to judge.

>>1468391
>God tells you don't eat an apple
>you do and he punishes you and your children for all eternity even though he knew exactly what you were going to do and even that he was going to punish you for it all before it even happend.
>your parents tell you not to stay up to late
>they ground you for a week
>the worst parents will beat you for it, which I WOULD argue is a petty tyrant
You're counterargument is weak.

How do you know God has three persons/aspects in itself? How can you be so sure of it if it is but only a catholic belief? Neither the muslims, the jewish or the protestatns believe this.

>>1468011

Welcome to theology 101

This is the basic premise behind the book of Job. God is beyond our concepts of good/evil, moral/immoral. God is a force of nature, like a storm. A hurricane doesn't think about what it's doing or if what it's doing is damaging anything, it's simply force. God contains and is immanent with all the creative and destructive potential of reality. Human morals and ideas do not even register to something of that magnitude.

>tl;dr
We are dust. The universe is not fair. Ever existing in the first place should make you fall to the ground weeping with gratitude

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>>1468453
Protestant here. The Trinity is a doctrine that transcends denomination and unites Christendom.

>>1468429
Being the creator doesn't imply that god is omniscient omnipresent and benevolent

>>1468428
So god has rights over us is a very nice way of saying he owns us like a tyrant

>>1468460
But not all Christians were trinitarian.

>>1468443
It's technically for all of us to judge, as we are the only ones with the means to do so. The only person who can ever decide if a leader is legitimate is the subject.

>>1468462
No because unlike a tyrant, God will not prevent you from disobeying Him. You are completely free to do as you please. However you will also reap what you sow.

>>1468334
the church is the bride and christ is the bridegroom

>>1468460
What's the difference between heathens and barbarians?

>>1468474
He will just torture you for eternity for doing so, expecting this to be a deterrent against disobedience. This is called coercion, and normal people consider it grade A dickhead behaviour. It is indeed tyranny.

>>1468354
he out adam in a garden with the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. adam didn't choose the tree of life which was intended for him so now we have to go through the whole jesus process, who is analogous to the tree of life

also the human life is a constant battle over the soul between body and spirit. body, sin, materiality, knowledge, flesh, the finite, corruption, vs the breath of god our creator, life, joy, peace, the eternal, incorruptibility

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>>1468467
You think gnostics were Christian?

>>1468473
No God alone is judge and again, "legitimacy" is defined by God's will.

>>1468388
>>1468388

>>1468477

Nice argument there. So mankind is the priest that marries them? Or are we the carpet that they walk on? Or perhaps we are the rice that the guests throw at them when they fininish the ceremony?

>>1468478
I'm guessing: the heathens are at least civilized and have some philosophical depth in their systems.

>>1468396
'making you a better person' is beside the point. the sinful flesh cannot train the flesh to no longer be sinful. the christian must rely on the spirit of christ for guidance and it is only through him that salvation can be found

but yes god is a petty tyrant for wanting to help us

>>1468490
>You think gnostics were Christian?

No, I was referring to Arians.

>No God alone is judge and again, "legitimacy" is defined by God's will.

Nah. I'm not a spineless wretch like yourself. I'll judge legitimacy. You can refuse to exercise some self respect though. I promise not to pit you.

>>1468499
>not to pity you.

Damnit,

>>1468496
Yeah, he's a real nice guy. Saving us from himself. Like those kindly men that will save us from smashing up our businesses if we just pay them.

>>1468496

Why christ? Why not the way of Tao?
Or ancestor worship?
Maybe, Mohammads teachings?
The way of Buddha?

>>1468446
god's punishment was expulsion from the garden. sin itself isn't the punishment

then god sacrificed himself that it could all be forgotten, but god is blamed for you not accepting him and suffering from sin

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>>1468481
God punishing the unrepentant is entirely justified by their sins and the fact that God coerces people to act righteously is testament to His goodness.

>>1468388
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma#The_second_horn

Nah. There's only one true standard of right and wrong: the one relating to the self. What is right is that which does me good, what is wrong is that which does me ill. What is good and what is ill? It is only that which I decide is good and ill. Any other standard is pure idiocy.

>>1468493
the church is the believers of christ; it is the corporate expression of christ on earth. so every member of mankind who accepts christ is the bride

>>1468435
Not that anon

But God didn't really punish Adam. Adam, by disobeying God, Adam discovered death. He discovered pain itself.

It's synonymous with choosing evil in general. God doesn't punish the murderer immediately. He gives him time to repent. But the pain that murderer caused another family, or if that man is retaliated against, he'll discover the pain on himself. That's how sin works. It creates discord every way and any way possible.

The same goes with theft, adultery, idolatry is the source of it all if I recall correctly. Anything that fills the part of the man's heart where God should be, THAT is idolatry...if I recall correctly.

Like the example of the man who finds his wife cheating and kills himself and his wife. It's because his wife was in a place of his heart where God and Christ should be.

His wife was essentially his savior, if she betrays him, that's it. It's over for him. He made an idol out of her and because of how she goes he goes, well, he went.

If he had God and Christ as his savior in his heart, he would actually feel bad for his wife. He'd be in the right to divorce her (I think, forgot the Marriage law in the NT), but with God/Christ in his heart, her betrayal would mean something completely different to him.

That's why God wanted Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. God wasn't going to have him spill his blood, he wanted to Abraham to sacrifice Isaac out of the spot in his heart where God should be.

God probably noticed....If Isaac ever died or got hurt, Abraham would have forfeit his title as the father of Israel and just gave up on life. By sacrificing Isaac out of his heart, God made Abraham stronger. Able to tolerate any evil that gets hurled at him. Turned him into a strong father to say the least.

>>1468508
Righteously is whatever he says is righteous. Which is demonstrably not righteous by the standard of any sane, ethical, empathetic human being.

Also.

>he's a deus vult LARPer

Look at this man, look at him and laugh! There is nothing more pathetic on this site.

>>1468502
>Saving us from himself.

god isn't sin

>>1468505
we're talking about christianity

>>1468521
He created it.

>>1468519
>it's not righteous by the standard of sinners

nice

Why would god do anything?
He doesnt need anything.

>>1468525
you created the goalposts and then moved them

>>1468527
Because as we suffer He suffers.

>>1468526
>sinners

Meaningless drivel. This is obviously just fear mongering. You can see it in the Bible itself. How the consequences of disobedience to God go from very material consequences such as being struck dead to immaterial ones that only take effect after death. You can tell that the former no longer sufficed to scare people into belief, since they could observe it not happening all around them, so they switched to the other which couldn't be disproved and relied on a near universal insecurity about death.

>>1468481
See
>>1468368

No eternal torment, only what they expected. Is that so bad?

>>1468531
It's God that punishes us for sin. So he's still saving us from himself. He could easily choose to do differently, but doesn't.

>>1468534

But he didnt suffer before creating us. Why create the universe?

>>1468537
That's contested. But if the wages are final annihilation, I'm cool with that. I absolutely detest the idea of any form of eternal existence.

>>1468536
sin isn't just disobedience, it has its own nature

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>>1468499
>Arius

Literally a heretic.

>I'll judge legitimacy.

Have you given God His subpoena? When is the trial scheduled?

>>1468513
Source: your butt.

>>1468519
Thinking you, a temporal created being, know better than the eternal creator of the universe is neither sane nor ethical.

>>1468538
except that he sacrificed himself for our sins which isn't a punishment, it's a reward at no cost to us

>>1468544
>Source: your butt.

It's a better standard than "this being which there is no reason to believe actually exists."

>Thinking you, a temporal created being, know better than the eternal creator of the universe is neither sane nor ethical.

Thinking? No, no, no, this is not "thinking" I know better. This is knowing that I know better, because I know that I am actually a being capable of such judgement.

>>1468549
That doesn't make sense. He could just choose to not punish for sin.

>>1468549

There is no sacrifice if youre immortal.
Did he lose the "Son" part of himself? He didnt lose shit, so there was no sacrifice at all.

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>>1468553
In other words you're enlightened by your own intelligence.

>>1468554
That would be unjust.

>>1468435
Because it wasn't just a fucking fruit, fuck off.

>>1468433
[citation needed]

>>1468438
That's not even slightly true though, if you make something you're automatically given ownership. You have control over something you own, but you don't need to control it to own it. I still own my dog if it's incredibly badly behaved and I can't control it.

>>1468446
Sin is a result of it, not the punishment. Also, not just an apple.

It's more like your parents tell you to not drink the bleach under the sink then you do it anyway and blame them for putting it there after you fuck yourself up.

>>1468462
How is being omniscient omnipresent and benevolent at all related to ownership? Even ignoring all the other shit that shows it (which is sourced in the bible, I'd recommend you read it).

>>1468556
Yes indeed, and I am in this moment euphoric.

But I'll take it over submitting my will to a book.

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>>1468555
He sacrificed His life.

>>1468518
You explained it really well, thanks anon. Original sin isn't something they were given, it was something they did. They created the original sin and introduced sin to mankind by eating the apple.

>>1468513
By your logic a serial killer who never gets caught is doing good.

>>1468560
>That's not even slightly true though, if you make something you're automatically given ownership. You have control over something you own, but you don't need to control it to own it. I still own my dog if it's incredibly badly behaved and I can't control it.
>believing in ownership as an absolute

It must hurt to be so spooked. No, you have only ownership over that which you can exert control over it. Because if you can't exert control over something, what effect does your ownership have?

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>>1468561
That is your prerogative.

Goodnight and God bless. I will pray for you.

>>1468562

So is he now only two persons/aspects?

What "life" did he lose if he ressurected at the third day and ascended back to the heavens?

>>1468567
>By your logic a serial killer who never gets caught is doing good.

Not as far as the people he has hurt are concerned. But to him most certainly. It would still be in the interests of everyone else to dal with him however.

>>1468554
he doesn't punish though, he permits sin

>>1468555
sin was judged and destroyed on the cross, jesus the man overcame death, the blood of christ washes sin and the water fulfills us, and christ became the life-giving spirit

being pedantic doesn't change how important the birth and death of jesus was to christians because of how accessible it made god to us

>>1468569
>I will pray for you.

Please don't.

>>1468574

But youre not answering the question.
What did he lose? What did he sacrificed? He is still a trinity right? Or is he now a duality father/holy ghost?

>>1468560
>[citation needed]
Barfield, "History of English Words":

“Take, for instance, the word person...Its present meaning of an individual human being is largely due to the theologians who hit upon it when they were looking for some term that would enable them to assert the trinity of Godhead without admitting more than one 'substance'."

>>1468560
>How is being omniscient omnipresent and benevolent at all related to ownership? Even ignoring all the other shit that shows it (which is sourced in the bible, I'd recommend you read it).

That is my point there is no relation. And that anon trying to paint god as perfect simply coz he created us and everything is stupid

>>1467858
>God creates man to experience
>God, via man, experiences bad things due to karma
>God suffers, via man

Your problem is you're separating man from God.

>>1468586
sacrifice doesn't have anything to do with loss. it has to do with slaughter and offering

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>>1468539
I'll tell you this off the bat...

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD

So I mean, in regards to that question, it would all just be speculation from our minds.

I mean when you consider the concept of physical dimensions. When you add a dimension to another, what happens? The over all conduit expands for physical space.

What do you think it would do to consciousness and soul? Because when the dimensions increase, that means concepts would also alter, because from an elementary stand point, things that were once impossible, would now be possible, so it wouldn't just be a physical difference. It would a perceptual difference.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

From this scripture, God exist outside of time as we know it. If one day with God is as a thousand years on earth, that means from his perspective, the earth is spinning like a top.

In order for that to be so, he has to exist in a higher dimension where things that move slow here, have more space to move, therefore speed up in comparison.

So...
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD

God has the highest perspective, the highest point of view. What we don't understand about Him, we can't assume to answer. What looks one way down here, could mean something greater up there. Up there meaning the higher dimensions, the higher levels of reality. Heaven, essentially.

>>1468594

Can I make a sacrifice that doesnt cost me anything then? If I sacrifice to God some dirty napkin, is it as good as sacrificing an animal or a costly thing?

>>1468607
if it doesn't say so in the bible then no

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>>1468592
>tfw I know my divine spark is my connection to God

>>1468568
>muh spooks

And why are you arguing as if God exists, while ignoring all the writings about him influencing and controlling parts of the world? Or the whole "Controls what happens with your soul" thing?

>>1468573
So you belief that a selfish person is a good person then? What is good and what satisfies you are two different things.

>>1468590
From what I'm seeing, the etymology of the word person comes from latin, and isn't theological at all, it comes from the idea of an actors mask.

>>1468591
That's not what I said though, the original anon claims God has no claim to rule everything. I pointed out that literally creating it is a good reason to say it's yours.

>>1468567
No problem anon, I learned that from T.White. Although I should have said that Abraham didn't sacrifice Isaac out of his heart entirely, he just brought him down a notch and put God above his son.**

>>1468614
>the etymology of the word person comes from latin, and isn't theological at all, it comes from the idea of an actors mask.
Yes, but the use of it to mean anything but a mask comes from theology. Hence why I said "the concept of 'person'" to begin with, and not "the word 'person'".

>>1468614
>That's not what I said though, the original anon claims God has no claim to rule everything. I pointed out that literally creating it is a good reason to say it's yours.
if that is your defense then you can't deny God owning us is nothing short of tryannical

>created man in his image
Yes yes a being that created the universe would surely look like a bipedal hairless ape, christians are such fucking retards.

>>1468640
Yeah I don't think you're supposed to take it that literal. I'm pretty sure this is referencing our general ability to tour and love and appreciate beauty. In that regard we're made in God's image. We aren't just clueless beasts unable to identify love, good, and righteousness.

>>1468651
Animals have emotions you stupid fuck. How does this make you made in God's image?

>>1468622
That's not the same as the word being created for that, just that it was used for that. The philosophical definition isn't the normal definition.

>>1468638
No? A tyrannical rule exerts absolute control over everything. God doesn't. Punishing people for doing shit wrong doesn't make you a tyrant, and being a tyrant doesn't even relate to being a good or bad ruler.

>>1468640
I'm sure you know much better. What reason is there for him not to? Also, we'd look like him, not him looking like us.

>>1468661
>the word being created for that
which I never said it was. Refer back, and note again: "concept", not "word". >>1468433 Reading comprehension.
>The philosophical definition isn't the normal definition.
In this case, the normal definition developed directly from the philosophical definition. The earlier definition, as you rightly noted, was just "mask", which is neither the normal nor the philosophical one. But at this point I feel like we're arguing just for the sake of arguing, so I'll stop being autistic and bow out.

>>1468670
>which I never said it was.

Well then why did you bitch about me using the wrong word?

>In this case, the normal definition developed directly from the philosophical definition. The earlier definition, as you rightly noted, was just "mask"

The original definition, it was used to describe other shit as well.

And yeah, I don't see why this needs to be an argument at all honestly, good idea anon.

>>1468661
>Also, we'd look like him, not him looking like
Yes anon a being that created all the matter in the universe and thus isnt made of matter would look like us despite the fact we are matter. You are a fucking retard.

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>>1468658
anon pls

show me a animal that can paint, sculpt, build a beautiful house, speak more than one language etc etc

leggo and paw painting doesnt count anon lel

>>1468691
What on earth does any of that have to do with having emotions?

>>1467972
You mean just like how god has the ability to choose to not be shit, yet chooses to be shit?

>>1468691
>speak more than one language
I am laughing so hard right now

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>>1468695
>appreciating beauty is emotion
>expressing beauty is emotion
>implying animals can do any of this or whats stated above

What exactly is your problem man? Chill out dude.

>>1468687
Why wouldn't they? There's no reason God couldn't exist in that form anon. You're also assuming that God doesn't also appear in a material form.

>>1468706
None of that is emotion you idiot.

>>1468711
What else is it anon?

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>>1468711
Anon, what in the world are you even talking about

>>1468706
>chill out dude
>immediately starts firing off memetext reaction images

are you talking to yourself?

>>1468707
No no retard you are the one with all the assumptions, just as how you assume you know fucking anything about a universal creating being. God I hate you christian fucks when you give you a valid argument you always pull something out of your ass to retort. I mean look at this nonsense

>HURR YOU DONT KNOW IF GOD HAS A MATERIAL FORM
How do you know God has a material form? How do you know anything about God to begin with?

Thats right you dont you are a christfag making up horseshit to sound smart.

>>1467993
Oh my child how little you understand

>>1468723
>How do you know God has a material form? How do you know anything about God to begin with?

I'm taking it from the Bible, which is divinely inspired.

Going "B-but you don't really know!" isn't really an argument, going off the evidence we have, there's no reason to think we don't look like God, and you look like a moron for pretending there is.

>>1468723
Also, if you're going to go "look at this" as if it's a quote from me, you should probably actually quote me. Mocking greentext is fine but it's dumb to make out like it's an actual quote.

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>>1468706
>animals don't express beauty the exact same way humans do
>therefor, they don't express beauty

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>>1468721
>>1468723

Hey, relax

We're all bruvs here

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I'm just going to jump in here.
None of you are "Christians". Not a single one of you follows the path that Jesus took. If you did, you would reform Judaism.

Paul was usurper and a third of the planet still believes. It's sad.

Jesus was a Jew. Why aren't you?
You're a bunch of ritual cannibals who worship the Sun.
The word is Apostates

There. I feel much better.

>>1467862
God doesn't have free will?

>>1468734
What does God look like?

>>1468740
>Reformed Judaism
>The religion that lets you be a atheist Jew

Kek, leave Schlomo

>>1468752
Like a man, based on the evidence available.

What evidence do you have to say he doesn't?

>>1467858
Seriously guys: check out Gnosticism.
It'll answer all of your questions.

>>1468772
There is no evidence of God's existence.

>>1467950
Found the anarchocapitalist

>>1468778
If we're arguing about what something looks like, it's fucking retarded to refute with "I don't believe it exists". If you don't believe it exists, why should you care about what it looks like?

>>1468790
Only evidence is from a book but many religions have sacred books so that is bunk therefore God doesnt exist.

>>1468459
>beyond our concepts
>muh mysterious ways
God is "beyond our understanding", and therefore any bullshit he does or doesn't -or anything anyone does in his name-is perfectly justified

>>1468792
What astounding logic that is.

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>heaven is in the clouds
>but some days there are no clouds
>b-b-but its invisible!
your fucking DICK is invisible you small cunt

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>>1469085
You are incredibly rude and should work on your vocabulary.

>>1469106
just a bit of banter cobber
don't have a hissy fit

>>1468074
>Canada is euroshit now

You're believers because you're scared of death and the unknown. Your God has no more reason to exist than the flying spaghetti monster.

Organised religion is cancer. Faith is cool thought.

>>1469155

Did you get lose on your way to /r atheism?

>>1467962
>what is the new covenant

>>1469161
>h-h-he questioned my faith, quick, better call him reddit!

If you were truly believing, other people opinion on the matter shouldn't astonish you like that. But it does, because deep inside, you know it doesn't add up.

>>1468260
God did not create temptation

>>1469199
No, I really don't care what people believe, it's not my place to judge them, they have the right to think what they want.

But you're just being obnoxious about the whole matter for no reason at all. Also, flat out wrong, organised religion, in particular the Catholic Church have done an incredible amount for society. Even ignoring the spiritual guidance they give to communities, priests spend a lot of their own money and time promoting charity events and being involved with other humanitarian events, and the church donates pretty much all of their profit to charities as well.

I'm not as knowledgeable with other religions, but I assume it's the same for most, even if they don't have the same resources as the Vatican does.

I saw God in a vision once. It was like 4-5 months ago.

He was featureless. But the best way I can describe it is like, if you were blind and a Humvee or tank was approaching you. You hear the crack of the gravel underneath the weight of the tracks or tires, you feel the engine in the air, and you just get a feeling that something large is approaching you. I felt it, but as I said He was featureless and I didn't know what it was but something large was approaching me and I felt a bit of anxiety. Now we play a sonar game witch each other on earth. Like, remember when you were a kid playing sports, there was that one kid who was really good at the sport and you would observe him, this is you sending out a ping. Then you would take the information you saw from him and bring into you, into your mind. This is the ping returning. Then from that lil sonar bounce and gathering of information, you GENERALLY had 1 or 2 responses to the information about this kid being so good at this sport. 1 response would be-"I want to be that good, so I'm going to work hard to get as good as he is." A 2nd response could be- "I'll never be that good, so I'm going to quit and avoid the pain of failing."

Now that's what a lot of people do in everyday life, it's what I noticed I did throughout my life. But I need another reply, comment is too long.

>>1469291
Now this large featureless presence was approaching me in this vision. The closer it got, the further my heart kinda sank, anxiety building up, so in a instinctive attempt to identify what was approaching me, I did the sonar game. I compared myself to this thing just out of fear and knee jerk instinct. And what I saw was every mistake I've ever made in my life and I saw how this thing wouldn't have been as stupid and stubborn as I was, I saw it's perfection. And it's perfection never ended, it just kept going and I fell prostrate. I knew who it was at that point. Long story short I tried opening my eyes to get out of the vision because it was too much to be infront Him, I thought I was losing my mind, I thought it was ridiculous for me to be thinking of something so great, I thought if it was God I don't deserve to be in his presence. I wanted out, I wanted it to stop, and I wanted to open my eyes and go wash my face. Before I could, he grabbed me without grabbing me, I dont know. He held me in place and made me stay in His presence. I just began apologizing for everything. He told me 3 things, only 1 that I could remember, all 3 encouraging though. All I remember is Him telling me "I know how hard it is, I know how hard it is." And He let me go.

But yeah, that's my testimony. I really don't care if anyone believes me or not but I'd thought Id share nonetheless.

>>1469291
>>1469293
Thanks for sharing anon, and I always find it interesting the different ways people experience visions of god, it's always feeling really comfortable, or feeling terrified.

Would you describe yourself as someone who sins a lot, can I ask?

>>1468399
nah its just a shortening for Christ. haven't you ever heard or seen the abbreviation 'Xmas' before?

>>1468018
So god isn't omnipotent?

>>1467858
Why would free will be a good thing? Human societies where free will doesn't exist and everything is decided by a dictator or party are evil sure, but if the dictator in this case is perfect, (all knowing and all good) wouldn't giving people free will be immoral?

>>1469422
Why would it be? Would you prefer to be a slave with no ability to make your own choices? Plenty of people want to sin, I'm sure you enjoy things that are sins.

>>1469341
That's definitely a common thing, that people will change their ways so completely after an experience like that. And I wouldn't feel bad, we all sin, even saints are tormented by their sins. It's human, but as long as you repent and continue to fight towards improving and not doing so as much, it's a good thing.

>>1467858
>God """created humans in his image."""

Just humans though.

>Horse dad, why is God so horselike?
>Well horse son, it's because God created horses in his image.

>>1467959
>God acts like Kim Jong Un
>loving god

>>1468804

No you don't get what I'm saying. Any attributions to God of a personality are simply anthropomorphism.

You literally cannot fathom God. God doesn't need justification to do anything because there is nothing but God. God is an intelligible sphere whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.

God is everywhere and nowhere, a paradox. God is that which goes beyond our categories of thought, being and not-being.

>>1470590
This is the most contrived nonsense I ever heard.

Hey why not have Supergod who is even MORE beyond comprehension! And then supergod 2, 3, ... n who are in infinite array of identical supergods, each completly incomprehensible! And then also a Godset containing all possible and impossible...

>in before you reply to my post without having even the slightest understanding of Supergod :^)

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>>1470605

>trolling this hard

>>1470605

What I'm trying to say is that God is a metaphor.
The human thought "God" can only reference that thing which human thought cannot grasp.

God is not a being, a personality. All that comes as a consequence of human mythological thinking. God is everywhere but nowhere, the ever-present origin.

>>1470611
That's just the tip of the iceberg, there is also Super Duper God, and Super Duper Pooper Scooper God, and

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All these plebs thinking God = The Demiurge

>>1470620
So are you willing to say Christianity and all human made religion is bullshit?

>>1469438
Is what I want necessarily good? From a Christian point of view that is.

>>1470620
Calling it "God" is disingenuous then, and only helps bolster Christians who will gladly accept your "grand" definition but keep the anthropic dogmas.

>>1468358
It's God's fault because he made Adam and didn't unmake him or made a new better human that did do what God asked him to do.

>>1468576
too late ;^)

>be omnipotent sustainer of the universe
>spend thousands of years preoccupied with petty tribal politics in an area the size of New Jersey

>>1470642

No it's mythology. That is certainly not 'bullshit' unless you want to look at everything through the lens of factual or non-factual. You can't just dispense with all that great mythological material because it became rigidified and dogmatic.

>>1470650
Call it whatever you want. The label itself doesn't matter, only want is being referenced. God is just the term we use in western civilization.
>only helps bolster Christians who will gladly accept your "grand" definition but keep the anthropic dogmas.

That is honestly their own fault and they can and should be ignored. This is not limited only Christianity by a long shot. This is the reason people make the pilgrimage to Mecca or go to bathe in the Ganges because they don't understand the metaphors and instead interpret them as facts.

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>>1467858
Of course it doesn't. That's because it's nonsense.
>God created Man in his own image.
>God gives man and his offspring freewill, in order that they might come to him of their own volition and not by force.
>A human has a nous, an animal does not.
>Man is giving an option of doing a proverbial right or wrong.
>Man chooses to do wrong.
>Man has the opportunity to recant his doing wrong by admitting his wrongdoing.
>Man blames woman.
>Woman blames snake.
>Nobody accepts responsibility, and man has willfully disallowed itself to be partakers in the divine nature.
>God casts out Man.
>God comes down, long after the death of the proverbial/literal figure who scorned him.
>God works for the reconciliation of man to him, on account of a deep and ineffable love.

Hell itself was not created by God. Hell is a disposition we place ourselves in, many of the great church fathers can attest to this fact. Salvation is a gift freely given, attained throughout life.

Mar Isaac the Syrian:

>I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love. For what is so bitter and vehement as the punishment of love? I mean that those who have become conscious that they have sinned against love suffer greater torment from this than from any fear of punishment. For the sorrow caused in the heart by sin against love is sharper than any torment that can be. It would be improper for a man to think that sinners in Gehenna are deprived of the love of God. Love is the offspring of knowledge of the truth which, as is commonly confessed, is given to all. The power of love works in two ways: it torments those who have played the fool, even as happens here when a friend suffers from a friend; but it becomes a source of joy for those who have observed its duties. Thus I say that this is the torment of Gehenna: bitter regret. But love inebriates the souls of the sons of Heaven by its delectability. (I.28, p. 266)

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>>1470699

Look, dude. When Yahweh told that Moses fella to stone someone for gardening on Saturday it had cosmic significance, maaaaaan.

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>>1470727
R&R is very important.

>>1469291
>>1469293
>"I had a delusion, must mean God is real!"

I suggest checking in to your nearest mental health center permanently.

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>>1470819

>Not having read St. Augustine
It is almost as bad as not having begun with the Greeks.

>God is good
>Evil is the absence of God
>When people or angels walk away from God, they become evil
>Hell is the eternal absence of God
Also, staying with God is good, but also what is natural. Being evil is going against ones nature.

>>1470982
I liked the part where he said people couldn't possibly live on the other side of the Earth because they wouldn't be able to see Jesus descending from heaven at the second coming.

>>1467858
"What is "free will" for 400, Alex.

>>1467892
What a keen and well thought out contribution nothingness-fag. Fuck off.

>>1470958
How many hat meme images do you have saved

>>1471300
not enough ;_;

>>1470646
From a Christian point of view free will is good, as it's a God given ability. What you use it for can be good or bad, but the freedom itself is good.

>>1469291
>>1469293
>claims god is featureless
>uses he
>he says he understands your pain
Nah senpai you just met your Higher Self

>>1472139

This.

[spoiler] Also, this is an aspect of God itself of course[/spoiler]

>>1472139
I didn't claim anything other than what I experienced. But I've read about that stuff in the mid 2000's. All that stuff regarding the higher self and a plethora of other concepts and ideas regarding who we truly are. And all I know is that none of that tied into this in terms of becoming a theme or anything. This whole thing was different. The whole vision started off with Jesus Christ giving me a white garment to clean, and then to put on, and he showed me how to pray and asked me to look at my life. After that I was asked if I wanted to see what happened when we pray, I said yes of course, after I was shown that, that's when I felt that presence approach me from my right hand side. The whole vision was surreal, it would peak and I'd get overwhelmed then I'd be urged to calm down. That happened like twice I think. As for the prayers, I mean if it's aligned with God's will no one has a reason to think that their prayers don't matter. But now I don't doubt the significance of the spirit that's in us, but that's all I can say about "the higher self".

>>1473007
Your posts said that you saw god as featureless yet uses a him to describe god. Anyway I don't want to tell you what your dream should mean to you only pointing out that your dream resembles a meeting with the higher self(and the post I am replying supports it with the theme of initation)

>>1468174
>although the potential for sin existed
Then is wasn't a world without sin.

>>1473064
Are you dumb? If I have a house with a fireplace filled with wood in it, there's the potential for fire, would you say that there's a fire in my house?

>>1468779
Found the dumbass

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>>1468544
>"le deyus vult xDDD"

Cringe

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>>1468734
>"I'm taking it from the Bible, which is divinely inspired."
>he actually believes this

>>1467858
When was the last time image was synonymous with conduct? At any rate, fedora tippers that have an interest in the humanities are useless. If nothing else, they sort of degrade the humanities, metaphysical philosophy in particular, because they can't distinguish truth, or even honesty, from fact.

>>1468363
Job 37:16
Psalm 147:5
1 John 3:19-20
and a bunch more. The idea that god know literally everything is cannon in every single christian denomination. All catholics, all anglicans, all orthodoxs believe this,and while I don't know for certain all protestants I cannot think of a single branch that disagrees. if there is one its some mad group of like 30 in the american backwoods somewhere not a major group.

If you consider yourself a christian and don't consider god all knowing fine, several of these arguments don't apply to your own views, but I am telling you right now you disagree with literally the entirety of christianity on this issue.

>>1467858
"Stop making me look bad you little shits!!!"

- God probably, as he drowns the world in a flood

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>>1474258
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhIExMmeBQ4