Why did the Catalan language keep more Germanic words than its

>>1463995

I can provide relevant info and examples. But I don't know if anyone is interested.

>>1464010

Provide them, please.

They are cucks. Or alternatively, they are less cucked.

>>1464019

"Estona" (also written "stona" before modern standardisation). Pronounced əsˈtonə.
It means "a while", an indeterminate period of time, usually short. This word also exists in Occitan.

A related word exists in Lombard (I don't know if it's of common use, tho). But it's meaning is completely lost (It means something like "bad mood/ upset". Similar to what happened to the English term "stound").

Anyway, Catalans and Occitans are the only ones using it as Scandinavians use their "cousin" word (stund).


Another example:
"Arran" (əˈran) or "Ran" (ˈran). It means "besides", "near, "bordering", "at the same level (in a physical sense)". You get the concept.

They are cognates with the German "Heran" and "Ran". Again, the meaning has been kept.

I would asume it's because they were only 80 years, for Barcelona, under the mudslimes and so a contiuation between the visigoths and the franksvwas easier. Probaply corrolating with a more dense visigoth settlement in the 7th century compared to the rest of iberia. But im just guessing, i hope some expert can deny/confirm my bullshit.

>>1464092

Well, this is factually true.
The question I wrote in the OP probably doesn't have a single and simple answer, but I agree with what you have said.
I don't know about the proportions of the Gothic and "hispano-roman" populations, tho (mixed marriages were common, afaik, tho. So I don't know if it would have been possible to distinguish between them). That's something I wonder about, anyway.


More questions:
Could it be that Catalan/Occitan was the language that latinized Goths spoke, rather than just the regional Vulgar Latin dialect? Are Catalans the "direct descendants" of the Goths as a nation?

It's also worth reminding that this place was called Gothia for some time.

>>1463995
I read some fag's fanfic about medieval Europe and the only thing that stuck out was the fact that the Cathars beat the crusaders back and by the 15th century there was a massive cathar state with the capital at Toulouse encompassing Aragon, Navara, Aquitaine, Languedoc, Provence etc.

>>1464167

That could have been interesting.

>>1464177
Imagine the historical potential
>much weaker France
>much weaker Spain
>much weaker Pope
>reformation possibly happening one century earlier and in a completely different direction
>cathars owning Sardinia and Sicily and Baleares
>they possibly would have allied themselves with the Ottomans sooner than Francois did
>the survival of the Occitan, Catalan and Basque languages as one large branch of Romanche spanning form the Alps to Cantabria and from Valencia to Aquitaine

>>1464141
What your now doing is just we wuz Goths n shit
the re in reconquista is just a meme

>>1464325

This has nothing to do with the reconquest.

>>1464187

Catalan, Basque and Occitan are still spoken in our same world.

>>1464167
>implying cathars were not destinated to die and dissapear anyways in less than half a century.

>>1464436
The reconquista was what spreded the language to it's later/nower days area of usage

>>1464520

Yes. Well, the Catalan/Aragonese part of the reconquest. Spain was still not unified.

But by that time, Catalan was already a well developed language. And the identity was already formed.
So I don't think that James the Conqueror's "adventures" are very relevant for the things proposed in this thread.

On the "we wuz goths" part, I'm just speculating about how my language was developed. And I'm supporting it with evidence: >>1464065

>>1464551
>>1464520
>>1464325

It's also worth noting that the Goths that populated Catalonia, after the Frankish Empire gained control of the Catalan counties, were not the same Hispanic Visigoths that had been here before the moor invasions. Or at least a big part of them were not.
We don't know much about the Goth population (or the Roman population) of lower classes, but what I'm saying is well known, real information about the ruling class.

>>1464443
Of course they are, but altered by the dominance of Spanish and French respectively. They might have branched out in a separate Romanche language with major influence on the globe had Catharism survived.

>>1464655

Basque is not Romance, not even Indoeuropean for the matter.

>>1464661
I know. It might have vanished and mixed into the melting pot around the Pyrenees had what I said happened.

Basque Country is the single most interesting ethnolinguistic area of Europe if you ask me btw

>>1464671

If you are interested in that kind of linguistic stuff, you may like to try get info about the linguistic comunities in the kingdom of Navarre during the Middle Ages. Basque was spoken, but they had their own romance closely related to that of the Aragonese, plus peoples coming from the beyond the Pyrenees which kept their languages (most notably Gascon), with French speaking kings for some centuries.

Are we even sure if Catalan is native to Catalonia?
as in, Aragonese romance language is very similar to Spanish, and the language suddenly changes on the Ebro valley to Catalan (all romance languages of Iberia are very similar, except for Catalan)

Couldnt Catalan have been introduced by the people of what is now Southern France when Charlemagne stablished his Spanish Marche there? Catalan is very similar to occitan.

>>1465631

Catalan is closely related to Occitan, Thats well know.

>>1465659
I wonder if they can understand each other with their different accents. The occitans in this video have a strong french accent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdroBng6Vvc

>>1464187
basque is not a romance language

>>1465631
Catalonian counties were literally the Marca Hispanica established by Charlemagne all the way down to Barcelona captured in like 801 iirc

>>1465631
>>1465659

(OP)

Yes, Catalan can be considered a "split" of Occitan.
Usually, the further you move from Catalonia, the more different to Catalan the local Occitan dialect is.

>>1465752
>Marca Hispanica
Ugh... I hate that term. And I hate that it's being taught in Catalan and Spanish schools right now.
It held no political or administrative meaning, it is just a geographical reference. And that is usually omitted in schools. It ends up leading to a lot of misconceptions.

>>1465703
The Occitan dialects can get quite differetianted.
It is likely that I (a Catalan) and someone from Languedoc will understand each other better than someone from Languedoc trying to speak with a Bordeaux person.

>>1465783
>no political or administrative meaning
What do you mean? Genuinely curious as I'm not that knowledgeable on the whole subject beyond the superficial stuff

>>1465631
>>1465783

Extending what I'm saying a little bit more:

In the early Middle Ages, there was no clear distinction between Catalan and Occitan.

When I talk about the origin of Catalan, I'm also talking about the origin of Occitan. (Maybe I should have said this in OP)

>>1465789
The Marca Hispànica was not a territorial entity.
There was not any nobleman helding the title of "Marquess of Hispania". That title did not exist, nor it's alleged territory.

"Marca Hispanica" was a term used as a literary device, used ocasionally in a few chronicles from the middle ages. (And modernly revived and misunderstood)

Instead, these lands were organized as Counties (Barcelona, Girona, Osona, Urgell...), as part of the Frankish Empire (at least "de jure". There was a point at which we acquired "de facto" independence).

>>1465269
Any good links? I legit thought Pamplona/Navarre was a Basque kingdom

>>1465913

Thats how it was born but the kingdom expanded to areas with Romance-speaking populations, the kings keep promoting the inmigration of "French" colonizer to settle in the cities and once the Navarrese dinasty died the crown was inherited by French noblemen (and the Capets themselves too).