What is karma? Is it really just "what goes around comes

>>1441533
You do your Karma according to your Dharma, then you do the hokie pokie and you turn yourself around, and that's what it's all about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

Karma is a Sanskrit word; at its most basic level it means "acts" and originally referred to ritual acts (as in the Vedic sacrifice, which is the central ritual of ancient Hinduism).

As Indian philosophy developed, different ideas about the significance and meaning of karma also developed, to such an extent that the word can be seen as referring to an entire class of philosophical thinking, much the same way as "ethics" in English.

However, Indian philosophy does not have a one-to-one correspondence with western philosophy. Karma has no equivalent in English. The constellation of ideas and terms that are typically brought up in Indian discussions of karma (as they occurred throughout time) are, for example: rebirth, causality, consciousness, ritual, willed action.

My familiarity with Indian philosophy is very limited. In the Buddhist system it seems to refer to a category of existence which involves deliberate decisions (karmic actions) and the way they effect "self" and sentient beings as well as materials.

Nearly all Indian philosophical schools share the idea that reincarnation occurs in some form, and that a person accumulates merit (punya) which plays a role in how rebirth occurs. This is the sense in which "what goes around comes around."

Karma thus plays a critical role in the Indian worldview's explanation of the apparent injustice in this life (the problem of evil). Some people suffer more than others as a result of the continuing influence of karma.

This view was not shared by the Carvaka school of philosophy and in certain Buddhist perspectives.

I should probably also point out that the term karma-yoga or karma-marga is one of the trimarga, or "three ways" which classify and simplify the various manifestations of Hindu religion.

(Protip: learning about the trimarga is a much better place to begin studying Hinduism than learning about deities or sacred texts)

Karma-marga focuses on the practice of rituals (for example, sacrifice, devotion to murti, recitation of sacred prayers, pilgrimage) as a way to gain rebirth in a realm which is more favorable to acquiring ultimate enlightenment (moksa).

My understanding is the karma means something like, for every action there is a reaction, actions have consequences, etc.

There's also a layer of cosmic justice added on top of that.

But that's important is the primary focus is if you do shit, shit happens. Understand karma without the cosmic justice, then understand cosmic justice in how is applies to the concept of karma. Do not start of with cosmic justice to understand karma.

>>1441533
doesn't exist

>>1441583
>>1441596
Thanks bro didn't expect such a great answer tbqh

>>1441669

You bet man! Glad it helped

>>1441533
It's what happens when someone upvotes your post :^)

The Jains believe karma is a material substance that clings to the soul and prevents its liberation.

>>1441533
Karma is what happens to you when you're not following your dharma (correct life path). The exoteric hindu version of karma is a means of social control to give a metaphysical justification for the caste system. Guess which one is the most widely propagated?

>>1441810

it is, in a sense, but rather then material or substance, think of an energetic vibration rising to intensity every time an intention arises in your mind (or a vibration which is your intent arising in the mind). When the intent ceases (it is really only transforming or changing into a dormant potential state, not disappearing or being destroyed), the vibration lowers and merges into the subliminal hum made up of the countless intents which your mind has had in the past. This is the inertial force which is the habit energy of the mind

Something that doesn't exist.

>>1441533
If you believe in karma you believe in reincarnation, whichever karma you're working on currently can be from any past life.

It is the metaphysical connection of all energy in reality

You know the kind of guy who does nothing but bad things and then wonders why his life sucks? Well, that was me. Every time something good happened to me, something bad was always waiting round the corner: Karma. That’s when I realized that I had to change, so I made a list of everything bad I’ve ever done and one by one I’m gonna make up for all my mistakes. I’m just trying to be a better person. My name is Earl.

>>1441583
Karma (actions) as a concept did not originate in Vedic religions.

It originated from the Sramanic (ascetic) tradition. Moksha/Nirvana(freedom), Ahimsa(non-violence) and Reincarnation all originate from Sramanic traditions.

If you look closely, those concepts are tied together. It doesn't fit well with the Vedic sacrifices or worship of Gods. Why worship Gods if you'll be reincarnated as one? Why create suffering for others if it creates a feedback? Why animal sacrifices/violence if they were reincarnated beings just like everyone? Why please the gods if they can't save you?

These are the central themes of many of the sramanic traditions. Jainism is the oldest organized ones and Buddhism is the most popular one. Yogas(means discipline/exercise of mind/body) are practiced by Sramatic tradition and Vedic tradition.

Ofcourse all of the Sramana traditions differ in their definition of those concepts and have different spin on each. Jains believe Karma is something that clings to the soul. Both good and bad. To be free of the world is to be free of all karma. They believe all actions create karma however heavier karmas are created by negative actions(killing/rape/stealing/lying/etc). Buddhist had a ample growth and developed quite a bit on their karma theory. They believe karma is essentially a habit a person creates with every thought/action. Each action led by thoughts which are led by habits. There's different words to describe the habits/the effects of the karma, etc. Buddhist, like the Jains, believe karma needs to be rid to obtain freedom (Nirvana). These are what clouds the mind and such. However methods differ.

>>1441583
>>1443533
in my limited study of world religions, we were taught that karma was essentially the body of deeds and thoughts the determined the caste/animal class of your next rebirth (in regards to basic Hinduism). As for Buddhism, we looked at a bunch of different schools, some saying that the absence of karma brought Nirvana, and some saying that Nirvana was the culmination of good karma. I really have no idea, I'm just offering the meager half-semester we spent on it.

>>1443474
still pissed that got cancelled

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>>1441810
Jains are the only based religious people.

>>1443568
Mahayana tied the concept of compassion with self-less acts. Which led to the freedom.

This works out in theory. All buddhism is essentially freedom when self centered view is abolished and self-less acts are done as a natural fashion.

So when you act compassionate, when you act self-less, this frees the hold on self-centered views. While these are "good" karma, its essentially freeing you in respect from the older habits. Now at some point you reach a critical mass, this is what the Mahayanist call Bodhisattva. Where you either completely let those "good" karma go and jump ship. Or stay on the ship to help others cross the river.

Thats the theory anyway.

Alright, let me try to make this as easy to understand as possible with a minimum of unfamiliar terms

Karma can be simply described as the actions you take in life. The Karma you generated in this life will either be a boon or come back to haunt you in the next life regardless of how insignificant.

Now we get to Reincarnation. essentially you are everyone that is ever born. Any negative action you took in this life (bad karma) will affect your next incarnation, ie the people being born today. Say you are a totalitarian dictator that oppresses your people; Guess what, you're just hurting yourself. Enjoy your suffering.


That's about as simple as I can put it.

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>>1443533

>Karma (actions) as a concept did not originate in Vedic religions.

I seem to recall learning that the study and analysis of karma came out of inquiries made into the Vedic ritual, and that these analyses form the Upanisads and the beginning of Vedantic philosophy, but I can't point to where I learned this.

This is from the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad, 4.4.5 (Olieville tr.)

"What a man turns out to be depends on how he acts and on how he conducts himself. If his actions are bad, he will turn into something bad. A man turns into something good by good action and into something bad by bad action."

Thus we see the word referring to its familiar meaning in the period of the Upanisads (roughly the same period as that of Sakyamuni Buddha and Mahavira) .

I found this very interesting footnote while Googling which seems to describe several distinct views on the origins of karma as a philosophical concept It is from "Philosophy of Religion: Indian Philosophy" ed. Roy Perit, 2001. The author of the essay on karma from which this footnote was taken is Eliot Deutsch.


So let me ask you this, just for interesting conversation. What is your understanding of the sramana tradition? If you subscribe to the Aryan conquest theory, how may we locate the emergence of the sramana tradition; is it of non-Aryan origin?

Just wishful thinking that all bad people get their due.

>>1443474
Hey Earl.

>>1443869
My understanding is, Sramana is something that arose in Indus Valley. When the Indus valley was failed due to erosion/political fallout/etc, their ideas migrated to the Vedic religion which came from the Aryan tribe's migration to the south. Vedic religions are obviously tied to the proto-indo-european religion. The things like meditation/yoga poses are tied to indus valley civilizations.

Obviously the theory doesn't isn't solid, but enough that it can be plausible linked.