/his/, what's your unpopular opinion on historical events?

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t. Giuseppe Anafesto

The transition of Republic into Empire ruined Rome in the long run.

bump for interest

>>1438447
I'm not Italian.

>>1438441
>guarenteedreplies.jpg

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>>1438454

>>1438441
By "unpopular" did you mean "unsubstantiated" or "indefensible"?

Spain hurt itself by expulsing Jews.
The Spanish were terrible at capitalism. The only thing they cared about in the Americas was silver and gold from Mexico or Peru, the rest of the Americas just kinda existed with very low economic activity.
In future Haiti you had a huge slave economy dedicated to sugar cane, while in future Dominican Republic you had a small population dedicated to cattle ranching.
Cuba didnt produce sugarcane in great numbers until it was occupied by the English who also imported thousands of slaves.
keeping jews would have made the Spaniards exploit the Americas more, as in sugarcane, coffee, cocoa, cotton, tobacco, and not be only about mining silver and gold.
And having that merchant class in Spain would have kept that money in Spain instead of being sent directly to bankers in Italy and the Netherlands to finance religious wars.

>>1438719
Should have paid the debts

>>1438940
Wait, the sack of Constantinople was due to denbts??

Hahahahaha never change, gayreeks!

>>1438454
correct

>>1438940
Then why didn't they stop when they got enough money to cover the debt + interests? Nah, it is obvious Venice had ulterior motives.

It was just about as justified as any non-domestic thing a state does purely for self interest.

>>1438950
It was actually more like that some random pretender promised the crusaders more money than the Byzantines could afford, and when some guy who actually controlled Constantinople tried but failed to pay all the money needed the Crusaders decided to sack it.

The fact that and the way Catholicis try to defend the sack in have probably made me lose more respect for the sect than the sack itself ever could.

The M4 Sherman was one of, if not the single best tank in WW2.

>>1438454
That's factual wrong, if the Empire weren't created the Republic would've simply torn itself apart again and again by its own internal struggle

>>1438959
>Then why didn't they stop when they got enough money to cover the debt + interests?
Because when you make someone come and FIND the money themselves, and risk their lives doing it, it pisses them off.

Egyptians were proto-furries.

>>1439045
>Because when you make someone come and FIND the money themselves, and risk their lives doing it, it pisses them off.

Nah. Stop being naive. Venice had strategic interests in destroying the Byzantine Empire, nothing else nothing more.

>>1439026
Majority of people who learned history from other sources than hitlery channel won't find it unpopular opinion.

>>1438441

>most pre-1500 history is quite literally fake or based on pure conjecture and "holy" myths

>>1439083
also:
>catholics and freemasons fabricated history to erase all traces left from all-powerful slavo-mongolian horde ruling the world.

automobile was a mistake

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>>1438441
Robespierre was possibly on the autism-spectrum but also one of the closest things the French Revolution had to a hero. I think he was right about virtually everything and was forced to adapt to impossible circumstances due to the incompetence and corruption of those around him.

>>1439087
I admit that's turbo WeWuzism, and Fomenko probably knew it was a big fat lie.
But the other other things may have been correct
>catholics and freemasons fabricated history
Yes

>>1439105
Ideas similar to Formenko's had some factual evidence, mostly when talking about history, especially ancient Egyptians but it mostly resulted in splitting rather than merging various pharaohs.

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>>1439083
>>1439087
>>1439105
I'm interested in this stuff. What are some particularly notable fabrications?

Was Charlamagne real? Did the battle of 1066 happen? Did England get Common Law from the Saxons? Are Caesar's commentaries on the Gallic War a fabrication?

How deep does this go?

>>1439075

I wrote a paper on this. I went back to the primary source material, and I think that both the deviation to Zara and later the conquest of Constantinople were the result of opportunism - not financial, but spiritual. I believe that in both cases, it was believed that the course of action taken would ultimately help the Crusade to carry on to its final destination as a success. Baldwin's first encyclical upon becoming emperor explicitly states that he hopes to carry on on Crusade. Things just didn't pan out that way.

As for the Venetians, they get an awful rap for a lack of genuine spiritual commitment to the crusades. But they had been involved in crusading endeavours from the time of the first crusade, even when doing so was harmful to their economic interests in the near east, suggesting that their motivations were not purely financial. To say otherwise is always to gloss the Venetian people and their leaders with the sort of 'realpolitikal' vision that historians possess with hindsight, and to believe that they did not share (without explaining why) in the religious conviction common in the rest of the west.

As for Dandolo's part in the fiasco - he had been given what turned out to be an unrealistic assessment of the number of ships needed for the crusade, and had monopolised the Arsenal to provide ships for over a year, badly damaging the city's finances. When a far smaller number of crusaders turned up, Zara was an obvious way to make good Venetian losses - it must be remembered that a doge's autocracy was significantly more limited than that of a contemporary king - he had a number of 'constituents' that would need to see him make some good of the Crusade.

Just my revisionist two cents. Feel free to shit all over it like people on here always do.

>>1438970
Catholic here. It's honestly the biggest tragedy in human history. The Angeloi ran the Empire into the ground in only 10 years, but what the Venetians did was shameful. #NotAllCatholics

Zimbabwe would have been better if it stayed as Rhodesia

>>1439156
Pretty sure the entire planet has realized that by now. Even Robert Mugabe probably wishes he could undo his reign.

>>1439126
Formenko basically states that the history before 1500 is almost completely false.

There are other who assume that dark ages of any kind didn't exist as a whole. That is that bronze era collapse and post roman collapse didn't happen etc.

Google new chronology, there's really no reason to write lengthy post about it.

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>>1439150
>Angeloi
>ran the empire into the ground
I am starting to see a pattern.

>>1439173
So are they claiming that all scientific archeology like I don't know carbon dating if that applies is just some big conspiracy?

>>1439178
Maybe not necessary a big central conspiracy with some clear goal bu reptilians, just each religion, dynasty, country inventing myths to justify their past.
And the way objects are interpreted by archeologists is ultimately based also on what they expect to find.
Sure the object might really be from around 500 BC, but it nothing to do with whatever the official explanation is.

>>1439156
Zimbabwe would have been better if Rhodesia simply had dropped White minority rule

>>1439173
>google new chronology
Okay I'm back. That was one hell of a trip. I think it's quite hard to believe anything that the man wrote but at the same time I won't absolutely reject it because the methods he used to reach those conclusions are well beyond my understanding.

I'll keep that stuff in my mind's back pocket but I think it would be more practical to assume that the general narrative is correct unless it becomes generally accepted that it isn't.

>>1439194
I'd honestly rather believe even if none it ever happened

Wow, did I just find religion?

Ayshit can't wait for the institutionalized church of medieval history

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Julius Caesar did nothing wrong

The Byzantine Empire was "Roman" in-name-only after the rise of Islam. Hell after the death of Justinian II I would say it ceased being "Roman" culturally.


The conquest of the Native Americans was no different than how any other nation in the past would have acted. To call it "Genocide" is a political machination at best, vae victus

The Mongol Empire was the worst thing to ever happen to the Far and Middle East.

Martin Luther was a mistake

The Southern US did everything wrong

On 4chan in general: Racism is a foolish idea that only drives to seperate people. The cultural superiority is where it is at

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>>1439305
Do you really meet people who disagree with these ideas?

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>>1439318
>Do you really meet people who disagree with these ideas?
Republic fanboys, Byzantineboos, Natives and Leftists/SJW's, Mongolboos and John Green fans, Protestants and germans, the southern US and /pol/ would all disagree with me vehemently

>The Crusades were clearly a Christian holy war of aggression, if it was self defence it would have happened centuries before and been mostly aimed at Spain
>The holocaust happened but the numbers are exaggerated, i dont mean it in a malicious way, it's just what happens, like major battles, and everyone is too PC to revise it
>Vikings are overrated but they still quite cool and dont deserve to be endlessly shitted on
>Rome ended in 476 AD
>
>get ready for it
>
>
>Europe would have been better Islamic than Christian in the middle ages, there would have been major peace and unity across Europe and Asia resulting in massive trade bonuses while still having the same healthy competition and probably renaissance even sooner.

>>1439333
I love Byzzies, but come one how can anyone honestly claim they're not clearly distinct entity from the classical Rome

>>1439333
>Republic fanboys, Byzantineboos, Natives and Leftists/SJW's, Mongolboos and John Green fans, Protestants and germans, the southern US and /pol/
>people
Memeing aside I think that a lot of that is pretty generally accepted. Those aren't really majorities that you listed there, just vocal fringe groups.

>>1439337
That Islam point isn't too offensive. What bothers people is when shitposters use that one Nietzche quote out of context to say that we should all surrender to ISIS, kiss the feet of refugees and let Mohamed fuck our wives.

Islam back then was strong, held ideals that were more or less in line with Europe and was generally going forward. Now I think it seems regressive and has nothing to offer the first world. Feel free to respond to this point but I'd hate to drag the thread off topic.

>>1439337
It's pretty fascinating to imagine Europe if the Umayaads had kicked Martel and the frank's shit in and conquer it

If it had reached the same kind of sophistication and advancement as the moorish Spain

And also, since central european society and culture were so drastically shaped by the Franks

>>1439333
Does John Green believe the crusades ended the Islamic Golden age?

>>1438740
>Capitalism
>XV century

>>1439367
Here's a more interesting question; does John Green believe any of the shit he says in this stupid videos he makes?

I wouldn't know about his opinion on that specific matter because I only watched one of his videos, on Alexander the Great, and was so disgusted that I now get angry at the site of his name.

>>1439373
>>1438740
>Muh silver/gold
Literally any other country would do the same, colonies weren't made to be economically diverse, but to give simple profit, and gold was literally money.
>Merchants
I guess? Idk desu.

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>>1438441
>>The Sack of Constantinople in 1204 on Fourth Crusade is completely justified

If it's justified, justify it.

Christianity was a mistake

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>>1439792
How?

>>1438740
>Spain hurt itself by expulsing Jews.
Not exactly an unpopular opinion

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>>1439305
Wew Mussolini

>>1439203
Well they did drop it, and you can see what happened

>>1439367
It's very odd
>spends an entire episode dickriding the Arabs and MUH SCIENCE
>literally next episode he dickrides the mongols, talking about now progressive they were and glosses over all the destruxtion

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The world would be better if the axis won the 1. WW, moar peace in the world

>>1438441
You're right, considering what was promised and what was then never delivered and the Emperor's attempts to backstab the Crusaders, they completely were. The Empire was terminal at that point anyway and while that sped things up, its death was inevitable.

>>1440941
How did the emperor try to backstab the crusaders?

>>1439126
Yeah to all of that, but the last one.

He just thinks that Charlamagne was within a generation or so of the fall or the Roman Empire, and 1066 appeared shortly afterwards.

Churchill is a filthy anglo rat and the aggressor responsible for WW2 and all the carnage that followed

>>1439363
couldn't agree more with the points on Islam, this is coming from someone born Muslim that realised it's regressive nature at the age of 11

>>1439974
The axis didn't exist in ww 1 it's the central powers. No point of being on this board if you don't know basic history

>>1440954
Not him but he refused to feed them if they didn't pledge allegiance to him and give him all the land they captured. They also stole their first city under cover of darkness which pissed everyone off.
They were a pretty scum ally for such an intense war.

>>1441319
Didn't he talk about the Emperor during the fourth Crusade?
Pretty sure you are talking aobut the one during the first Crusade.

>>1441352
Yeah I was. Sorry mate, wasn't paying attention. Still though. I'd sack those shits after all the crap they slung in the first crusade anyway.

>>1439103
>one of the closest things the French Revolution had to a hero.

he couldn't even kill himself right, the idiot blew his jaw apart with a pistol.

>>1439178
>carbon dating

LOL

>>1441380
It's kind of unclear what happened with his jaw. There was at least one National Guardsman who took credit for what happened to Robespierre himself and then there's also the theory that he resisted arrest and somebody's gun went off in the struggle. What's clear is that the arrest of Robespierre's faction didn't go cleanly.

>>1438441
>justified
Is this along a relativity idea? I mean, everything in history was arguably justified, especially when you get to the ends justifying the means.

Versailles wasn't harsh enough, should have been peace of Westphalia tier

>>1438509
dying kek

>>1439037
>if the Empire weren't created the Republic would've done exactly what the empire ended up doing anyways
FTFY

>>1438441
an age is reflected by superior people killing and otherwise expansively usurping inferiors

America should have sided with Germany in World War 2.

>>1439128
quality post

>>1441713
Dude this

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Martin Luther did nothing wrong.

>>1441713
Why would we

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Piers Gaveston should have been consort. He'd have made a better king than Hubby. They could have been pretty successful rulers together.

>America sides with Germany instead of Great Britain
>Britain immediately sues for peace with Germany
>Germany crushes the Soviet Union
>No final solution; Jews deported to Palestine or Madagascar
>No oil embargo on Japan
>No Pearl Harbor
>Soviet Union and China divided up between conquering powers (Germany, America, Japan, Italy)
>Continued economic prosperity in the West; Japan dominates in the East, subjugating China; Germany and America rule Europe
>No cold war
>Communism purged without mercy

fucking glorious

>>1441746

meant for

>>1441737

>>1438441
There are understandable regularities in human affairs

>>1441746
In what fantasy land does America betray its British and French allies to side with Nazi Germany?

Also, concentration and death camps were already running by the time America entered the war.

>>1441836
Alternate history, duh

>>1439175
kek

>>1441836

Allies are always relative. France was worthless and Britain was a liability. Fewer brits die if they just capitulate. Concentration camps were not automatically death camps. Learn the difference.

>>1439173
I really want to read Fomenko's books, large investment in time and $ though. One day..

>>1439087
I want to know more about Tartaria, the large Asian land empire thats been left out of history. Do you think the people we now know as Mongols were actually the people of Tartaria?

>>1441319
>Not him but he refused to feed them if they didn't pledge allegiance to him and give him all the land they captured.
That's because Alexios was not expecting the crusaders to be DEUS VULT RELIGION WAR NOW.

>They also stole their first city under cover of darkness which pissed everyone off.
Nicea was an important city to the ERE. Had the crusaders captured it, they would've razed it to the ground.

Islamic history from the beginning to the 18th century is fucking amazing. Probably one of the most interesting periods of time to study and learn about.

>>1442040
>islam since 1800
>ottoman turks acquire gunpowder through trade from far east
>rewalk the steps of the byzantine empire they acquired before them
>get fucking smashed by a pack of inbred habsburgs WHILST they are fighting multiple european fronts against legitament powers
>do fucking nothing in 2 world wars
>decay into smelly goat fuckers
>burden of the world

>>1439305
>The cultural superiority is where it is at

I fucking agree.
As the old saying goes, "its whats on the inside that matters" and culture is on the inside.

>>1442746
You're absolutely right.
The fact that some people don't realize this is such a pity. Behavior and values stems from culture not ethnicity.

>>1439363
>Islam back then was strong, held ideals that were more or less in line with Europe and was generally going forward. Now I think it seems regressive and has nothing to offer the first world.
This is true.

>>1442766
>>1442746
>they think culture and ethnicity can be separated

>>1438441
>Roman empire was bad
>Attila and the other "barbarians" did nothing wrong
>American independence was bad
>The confederacy did nothing wrong
>the 1911 chinese revolution was a misstake

>>1443594
>American revolution was bad, but the confederacy which did all the same shit but even worse was good

That's not even being controversial, it's just being contrarian.

>>1441981
>had they captured it
It was their capture mate. They were robbed of their glory and probably provisions and looting because their allies were snatchy. Pretty big net loss for the away team.

>>1443594
Elaborate on the romans and huns please.

>>1441746
>Japan dominating the east
>Nazi germany ruling yurop

how the fuck is that glorious?

>jews deported

why?

>>1438970
>>1438970
That's the wrong way around. The money was promised by the ruler, who was deposed.

>>1439337
>The Crusades were clearly a Christian holy war of aggression, if it was self defence it would have happened centuries before and been mostly aimed at Spain
The Byzantines getting their shit pushed in as hard as they did was a wake up call.

>>1438454
this

>>1442040
I'd agree, with the caveat I'm still salty about the permanent neutering of the Byzantines and the end of Zoroastrian Persia/Non Islamic Central Asia. But that's more me pining for what if history than anything.

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>>1438441

>Dandolo lived on to be like 120 and died peacefully, never even seeing the collapse of the >Latin >Empire.

>>1438441
>The holocaust is false as fuck
>Huns were fucking barbarians mongols who killed iranian hordes and started the cycle of asian hordes through europe
>Dark ages weren't really bad
>Vikings were shit tier barbarians
>Native american genocide is justified
>Monarchy and dictatorship are the best forms of goverment
>Women rights were a mistake

>>1445049
hella epic, /b/ro

>>1445049
dark ages is a myth though, so is the native american genocide

Colonialism was a good thing

>>1445403
>everything I don't like is a myth

>>1445855
yeah no, doesn't work like that

native americans died of disease, it wasn't a holocaust-tier event

dark ages are only dark to ignorant basement dwelling atheists, fuck off

>>1445654
Not an unpopular opinion, just wrong.

>>1442040
I have a tv special on the life of Muhammad that I watch regularly.

Islam's formation is cool as shit to read and learn about.

>>1442915
They can be, but the American left seems bent on not allowing that to happen.

Instead of viewing all of ourselves as American, we're devolving into petty racial pride that will do nothing but hold back national progress.

>>1438740
thats actually the dominant opinion. More than merchants were also most of the physicians, jewelers and large numbers of scientists, men of letters, etc. More than the netherlands, the ottomans profited hugely from jewish influx at the time. Just look at what suleiman the magnificient said; he basically called isabella stupid

>>1448516
>modern medicene
>good roads
>railroads
>planes
>a bad thing

>>1439337
>Europe would have been better Islamic than Christian in the middle ages, there would have been major peace and unity across Europe
>Implying Islam is united
>Implying Sunni and Shia Muslims don't still publically cut each others head off

>>1439786
Crusaders showed up in too little numbers to pay for the Venetian fleet so they agreed to help Venice retake their Adriatic colonies to pay off their debt. Then an exiled Byzantine nobleman said he'd give them money to pay their debt, and convert the Orthodox Greeks to Roman Catholicism if they put him on the throne of Byzantium. Crusaders did it, then he got kicked out. The Byzantines refused to pay the crusaders, set their fleet on fire, and then tired to starve them out. So they sacked Constantinople.
>not my words, I just saved some anon's explanation in an old thread about crusades

The Safavids ruined the middle east, and are responsible for the current Shia/Sunni sectarianism.

If it weren't for them Shiites would be sparsely distributed across the ME, with no power, and there wouldn't be sectarian wars like there are now.

>>1439305

found the bolshevik

>>1450685
>t. bolshevik

>>1450667
>Implying Sunni Islam isn't itself falling into sectarian wars
Nigga any ideology in the Middle East is going to fragment, it's the nature of Arab culture. We already have Sunni-on-Sunni violence between factions like ISIS and AQ and Wahhabists.

>>1450619
The issue here is that said nobleman could not pay the Crusaders for several reasons: First, because he physically did not have the money, and second because he was kicked out of power shortly afterwards.
Regardless, the heart of the issue comes down to the east west split that started to occur in the 11th century. The city was not sacked because of payment or the restoration of a monarch; it was sacked because the Latins hated the Greeks and the Greeks hated the Latins, for grievances that both sides committed.

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>>1450667
They are quite fascinating. They managed to permanently turn a Sunni powerhouse into the Shia superpower in the course of a generation just so they could give the Ottoman Caliph the finger.

Almost nothing remains of Iran's Sunni heritage.