Were the French more scientifically advanced than the barbaric

I've never heard anyone claim that. They were about on par at that time. There had been no true Western scientific advancements yet, but the Westerners knew the science of the Ancients and of the Muslims.

Science didn't exist yet.

They were less advanced, their system of government was much more primitive, their legal systems were much less advances (trial by ordeal was still happening), science was obviously much less advanced, it was a case of things from the east reaching the west, not vice versa. It's under Henry II of Englands rule that England and France start to have their 12th century renaissance.

>>1433355
>scientifically advanced

What do you even mean by this?

Are there people saying the crusaders had access to nuclear energy or something?

They had banking and castle building, I don't know what else to say.

>>1433548
Scientific is the wrong thing to define advancement by in this time. It's best to look at how well organised their societies were, such as law, government, infrastructure, etc. In which case the Muslims were further along in this during the 11th century.

>>1433552
The East was more advanced in the Spenglerian sense, meaning they were at a later stage of their civilisation's history. This implies both a higher capacity for intellectual political constructs, and a lower spiritual vitality.

OP asked about science though, and science did exist.

>>1433569
Well the middle east was obviously more scientifically advanced in the 11th century.

>>1433552
>In which case the Muslims were further along in this during the 11th century.
While the Middle East had some advanced theories on philosophy and law, the reality was that by the 11th century it had been crumbling when it came to its organization. The long Seljuk civil wars, the crumbling of the Abbasid and Fatimid diplomatic apparatus, the Bedouin incursions leveling much of North Africa, followed by the rise of another wave of dissident and extreme sects like the Almoravid movement and the Assassins, all caused the region to implode like the Frankish Empire a few generations after Charlemagne. If Europe was being torn apart by internecine warfare on top of Viking, Magyar, and Saracen attacks in the 9th and 10th century, the Middle East was being torn apart by the same, only instead with Turkic, Bedouin, and Latin attacks in the 11th and 12th centuries.

Individual Muslim writers may have been more advanced than their French counterparts in the 11th and 12th century, but the state of their society meant that in practical application of technology and law the French were not only on par with the Muslims but in many ways better organized at it.

>>1433355

It's pretty stupid to talk about "science" at the time of the First Crusade.

>>1434876
Don't forget that the middle East was getting fucked by goddamn Mongorians

>>1434906
That came in the next century, but it certainly didn't make a bad situation any better. The Middle East wouldn't know real stability again until the 16th century under the Ottomans and Safavids, and by then it had fallen far behind Western Europe.

File: Yunus Ibn al-Husayn al-Asturlabi Globe 1144.jpg (2MB, 3872x2592px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3872x2592px

In astronomy (eg. observatories, zij), mathematics (eg. algebra, decimals, etc), medicine, alchemy/chemistry, optics (Alhazen), mechanics, geography and cartography (eg. al-Idrisi's map), botany and zoology, geology, agronomy, navigation (eg. astrolabes), mining, metallurgy (eg. cast iron, damascus steel), and various other subjects and technologies Muslims were far more advanced. And yes, that includes Arabs and Moors, not just Persians. In my opinion the West had better art and architecture.

The West caught up between the 12th and 15th centuries, while Islamic sciences simultaneously declined, especially after the 13th century.

Someone post that story by an Arab Doctor about how Franks were mindblown that you can shave genital hair and it feels great and one Frankish Knight even asked if the Arab can do it for his wife.

That sure is some advance scientific society right there.

>>1435111
That story was more about sexual stereotypes of Europeans/Middle Easterners, which is a funny subject when looked at over the course of history. Usama ibn Munqidh was writing for an audience that saw the Franks as sexually degenerate. Later on Western Europe developed a stereotype of the Middle Easterner as sexually degenerate in turn. And now today the West has a reputation for sexual degeneracy in the Middle East all over again.

Think of it like centuries long /int/ banter.

>>1434920
And the Stability that the Ottomans brought had a Price which is everyone except for a Few Turkish Elite being supressed to the point that by the time the Ottoman empire started to crumble Western Anatolia and Constantinople were the only areas that they oayed any attention for centuries, this lead to choas that we see today after the Ottoman Collapse

One could argue that this also was the case of Western Europe after Rome Collapsed

>>1433355
French were far more advanced than them, they possesssed spatial aircraft and laser weapon, saddly, these weapons were destroyed during the last crusade.

>>1435132
>Usama ibn Munqidh was writing for an audience that saw the Franks as sexually degenerate.

As if pedos and goat fuckers can tell who is degenerate and who isn't

>>1434725
Not really. By then Westerners had access to most of the same Greek sources that the Muslims had, and most of what Muslims had advanced in medicine and such had spread as well.

>>1435111
Westerners didn't shave their genitals until a few years ago Mohammed.