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Today is the 98th anniversary of the murder of the Romanov family.
Let's discuss their last days, death, and the aftermath of their murder.
I'll be dumping some book recs, movie recs, and sharing some interesting photos related to their last days.
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>>1426581
They had it coming.
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I'm pretty sure Tatiana (far right) was the result of the Empress cucking Nicky with some Asiatic Russian soldier.
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Account of their deaths from Netrebin
>The family of Citizen Romanov went into the room and arranged itself across the wall then we entered. Nicholas stood in front of Alexei. As I looked over my comrades' shoulders, I saw Alexei, sickly looking and waxy, watching with wide, curious eyes as he followed our movements. I suddenly thought how very short his sad life had been, and I silently prayed we would all be good shots.
>The shooting was complete chaos. Vyrubova [sic] tried to protect herself with the pillows. After the first shots, I saw Alexei frozen in his chair, and his ashen face was covered with his father's blood as he sat there, unmoving in terror. One of the younger daughters died when she was shot in the back. Comrade Ermakov finished off a daughter by stabbing her in the chest over and over, and I remember Comrade Yurovsky shooting Tatiana in front of me; her head seemed to explode in a shower of blood and brains. The scene was sickening: the room was chaos, with blood and body fluids and brains all over the floor, and several comrades got sick at the sight.
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Accounts of their deaths from Yurovksy
>I said to Nicholas approximately this: His royal and close relatives inside the country and abroad were trying to save him, but the Soviet of Workers' Deputies resolved to shoot them. He asked "What?" and turned toward Alexei. At that moment I shot him and killed him outright. He did not get time to face us to get an answer. At that moment disorganized, not orderly firing began. The room was small, but everybody could come in and carry out the shooting according to the set order. But many shot through the doorway. Bullets began to ricochet because the wall was brick. Moreover, the firing intensified when the victims shouts arose. I managed to stop the firing but with great difficulty.
>A bullet, fired by somebody in the back, hummed near my head and grazed either the palm or finger (I do not remember) of somebody. When the firing stopped, it turned out that the daughters, Alexandra Feodrovna and, it seems, Demidova and Alexei too, were alive. I think they had fallen from fear or maybe intentionally, and so they were alive. Then we proceeded to finish the shooting. (Previously I had suggested shooting at the heart to avoid a lot of blood). Alexei remained sitting petrified. I killed him. They shot the daughters but did not kill them. Then Yermakov resorted to a bayonet, but that did not work either. Finally they killed them by shooting them in the head. Only in the forest did I finally discover the reason why it had been so hard to kill the daughters and Alexandra Feodrovna.
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From 'The Resurrection of the Romanovs,' but based on the testimony of Stretokin
>But Anastasia was still alive, and Marie, too, for as their bodies were carried to a Fiat truck that stood waiting in the courtyard, first one, then the other, suddenly sat up, coughing blood, moaning, screaming. They were outside now, and the men couldn't shoot them; the bayonets came out, slashing through the air, but the knives struck the hidden jewels. And so someone grabbed a rifle, turned it around, and hammered away at the barely conscious faces, driving a the wooden stock down again and again and again. Battered into silence, choking on splintered bone and shattered teeth, drowning in her own blood--this is how Anastasia died.
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Book Recommendations 1/2
>Journals/Memoirs/Their Own Words
Tatiana Romanov, Daughter of the Last Tsar: Diaries and Letters, 1913–1918
The Diary of Olga Romanov: Royal Witness to the Russian Revolution (wartime diaries, 1914-1917)
Complete Annotated 1913 Diary of Olga, Eldest Daughter of the Last Tsar
Maria and Anastasia: Letters, Diaries, Postcards by Helen Azar (2 Volumes)
The Last Diary of Tsaritsa Alexandra
A Lifelong Passion: The Letters of Nicholas & Alexandra by Sergei Mironenko
>Biographies
Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K. Massie
The Romanovs: The Final Chapter by Robert K. Massie
The Last Tsar: The Life and Death of Nicholas II by Edvard Radvinsky
The Last Empress: The Life and Times of Alexandre Feodorovna by Greg King
The Romanov Sisters: The Lost Lives of the Daughters of Nicholas and Alexandra by Helen Rappaport
The Romanovs: Love, Power and Tragedy by Alexander Bockanov
The Fate of the Romanovs by Greg King
Anastasia's Album: The Last Tsar's Youngest Daughter Tells Her Own Story by Hugh Brewster
>Aftermath
The Romanovs: The Final Chapter by Robert K. Massie
The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II: Replics, Remains and the Romanovs by Wendy Slater
The Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson, and the World's Greatest Royal Mystery
The False Anastasia: The Story of an imposter of the Grand Duchess of Russia by Pierre Gilliard
>Other Contemporary Recollections and Biographies
Thirteen Years at the Russian Court by Pierre Gilliard
Six Years at the Russian Court by Margaret Eager
Memories of the Russian Court by Anna Viroubova
25 Chapters of My Life: Memoirs of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandranova
A Countess in Limbo: Diaries in War & Revolution (Russia 1914-1920; France 1939-1947) by Olga Hendrikoff
Once a Grand Duchess: Xenia, Sister of Nicholas II by John Van Der Kiste
The Last Tsar: Emperor Micheal II by Donald Crawford
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>>1426617
Book Recommendations 2/2
>Photo Albums
The Camera and the Tsars: The Romanov Family in Photographs by Charlotte Zeepvat
The Romanov Fmaily Album by Marilyn Pfeifer Swezy
Nicholas and Alexandra: The Family Albums by Prince Michaeal of Greece
>Misc
Romanov Autumn: Stories from the Last century of Imperial Russia by Charlotte Zeepvat
The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II by Greg King
Tsar: The Lost World of Nicholas and Alexandra by Peter Kurth
>Fiction
The Kitchen Boy: A Novel of the Last Tsar by Robert Alexandra
The Lost Crown by Sarah Miller
The House of Special Purpose by John Boyne
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Actually in retrospect I don't really care for most movies about the Romanovs.
Nicholas and Alexandra is good.
The 1956 Anastasia film is good, fantasy obviously, but I'll be damned if the recognition scene isn't powerful.
There is also this odd short film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9OYPWPBeCk
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Last diary entry of Alexandra
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Last letter of Eugene Botkin, the family's physician.
>I am making a last attempt at writing a real letter--at least from here--although that qualification, I believe, is utterly superfluous. I do not think that I was fated at any time to write to anyone from anywhere. My voluntary confinement here is restricted less by time than by my earthly existence. In essence I am dead--dead for my children--dead for my work … I am dead but not yet buried, or buried alive--whichever, the consequences are nearly identical … The day before yesterday, as I was calmly reading … I saw a reduced vision of my son Yuri’s face, but dead, in a horizontal position, his eyes closed. Yesterday, at the same reading, I suddenly heard a word that sounded like Papulya. I nearly burst into sobs. Again--this is not a hallucination because the word was pronounced, the voice was similar, and I did not doubt for an instant that my daughter, who was supposed to be in Tobolsk, was talking to me … I will probably never hear that voice so dear or feel that touch so dear with which my little children so spoiled me … If faith without works is dead, then deeds can live without faith … This vindicates my last decision … when I unhesitatingly orphaned my own children in order to carry out my physician’s duty to the end, as Abraham did not hesitate at God’s demand to sacrifice his only son.
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The cellar where the family was killed
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Another image of the cellar
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The Assassin of the Tsar is a pretty good movie.
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>>1426586
Still better than communism
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The 9 skulls from the first grave
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>>1426711
dropped the pic
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Grave of Peter Ermakov, one of the executioners who was, even by other people's accounts, the most brutal. The grave has been vandalized repeatedly with red paint and animal blood.
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Ermakov standing near the gravesite in the 1920s. He wrote on the back of this photo "i am standing on the grave of the Tsar."
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Joy, one of 3 dogs that lived with the family in the Ipatiev House, and the only dog to survive. The other two dogs were shot, and one may have been carried by Anastasia into the cellar room.
Joy was found by incoming troops and eventually made his way to England.
A former lady in waiting wrote about meeting the dog some time later:
>I went to see Joy, and he, evidently connecting me in his dog's brain with his masters, imagined that my coming announced theirs ... Never did I see an animal in such ecstasy. When I called him he made one bound out of the carriage and tore down the platform towards me, leaping in the air and running to me with his forepaws, walking upright like a circus dog. General Dietrichs said that he had never given such a welcome to anyone before, and I attributed this solely to the fact that my clothes, which were the same that I had worn at Tobolsk, had still kept familiar smell, for I had never specially petted him. When I left, Joy lay for a whole day near the door through which I had gone. He refused his food and relapsed again into his usual despondency.'
Another quote from her book:
>What had little Joy seen on that terrible night of July 16? He had been with the Imperial Family to the last. Had he witnessed the tragedy? His brain had evidently kept the memory of a great shock, and his heart was broken. It was pathetic seeing this dumb friend, who brought back the memory of the Tsarvich so vividly. Little Joy was well cared for.
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>>1426702
>Timofyev (Malcolm McDowell) is a patient in an asylum who claims to be the men who killed Tsar Alexander II in 1881, and his grandson Tsar Nicholas II in 1918.
Sounds crazy.
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>>1426591
Nah, she just looks like her mother. All the pretty kids look like him.
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>>1427184
some new photos that were released by a Russian site
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>>1427281
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>>1427289
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>Death of the Empire by Karpenko.
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>>1427750
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Don't have much myself. I only really know about Rasputin, but he didn't really have much to do with the revolution outside of being a bit of pseudo-religious/occult trivia. Good for fantasy and horror stories, but not so much for actual history.
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>>1426581
Yakov Sverdlov and Vladimir Lenin did Nothing Wrong
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The Ipatiev House made it all the way to 1977 before it was ordered destroyed
fuuuuuuuuck
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wtf i hate bolsheviks now
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>>1426755
Romanovs absolutely BTFO
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>>1427064
It's pretty good. Kind of sad. Compelling though.
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Now today (the 18th) is the 98th anniversary of the murder of Grand Duchess Elisabeth, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich Romanov; Princes Ioann Konstantinovich, Konstantin Konstantinovich, Igor Konstantinovich and Vladimir Pavlovich Paley; Grand Duke Sergei's secretary, Fyodor Remez; and Varvara Yakovleva, a sister from the Grand Duchess's convent.
>That night the prisoners were awakened and driven in carts on a road leading to the village of Siniachikha, some 18 kilometres (11 miles) from Alapayevsk where there was an abandoned iron mine with a pit 20 metres (66 feet) deep. Here they halted. The Cheka beat all the prisoners before throwing their victims into this pit, Elisabeth being the first. Hand grenades were then hurled down the shaft, but only one victim, Fyodor Remez, died as a result of the grenades.
>According to the personal account of Vasily Ryabov, one of the killers, Elisabeth and the others survived the initial fall into the mine, prompting Ryabov to toss in a grenade after them. Following the explosion, he claimed to have heard Elisabeth and the others singing an Orthodox hymn from the bottom of the shaft. Unnerved, Ryabov threw down a second grenade, but the singing continued. Finally a large quantity of brushwood was shoved into the opening and set alight, upon which Ryabov posted a guard over the site and departed.
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>>1427854
From Ryabov's account:
We took them out into the corridor, blindfolded them, bound their hands behind their backs, and put them in another cart. We had earlier decided that the carts should not go together. The only one to try to oppose us was Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich. Physically he was stronger than the rest. We had to grapple with him. He told us categorically that he was not going anywhere, as he knew they all were going to be killed. He barricaded himself behind the cupboard and our efforts to get him out were in vain. We lost precious time.
I finally lost my patience and shot at the Grand Duke. However, I only fired with the intention of wounding him slightly and frightening him into submission. I wounded him in the arm. He did not resist further. I bound his hand and covered his eyes. We put him in the last cart and set off. We were in a great hurry: already the dawn was heralding morning.
Along the way, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich again repeated that he knew they were all going to be killed. “Tell me why?" He asked. "I have never been involved in politics. I loved sports, played billiards, and was interested in numismatics." I reassured him as best as I could. although I was very agitated myself by everything I have been through that night. Despite his wounded arm, the Grand Duke did not complain. At last, we arrived at the mine. The shaft was not very deep and as it turned out had a ledge on one side that was not covered by water.
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The remains of the last 2 bodies to be found. I'm not sure if they ever did any significant scientific studies to identify them or they're just assuming who it is based on the bodies from the other gravesite.
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The seven plays that the family performed in Tobolsk, as copied from Alexei's diary.
14/27 December:
Les Deus Timides
Tatiana Nikolaevna - Annette
Anastasia Nikolaevna - Cecile
Prince Dolgorouki - Garadoux
Pierre Gilliard - Fremissin
Nicholas II - Thibaudier
21 January/3 Feburary:
A La Porte, by Eugene Vercousin
Gilliard - Roland Delaunau, artiste
Tatiana Nikolaevna - Une dame
Aleksei Nikolaevich - Balthazar, un cocher
Pierre Gilliard - Regisseur
28 January/10 February
La Bete Noir, by MM. Mendale et Cordier
General Tatischev - le doctuer Dorthez
Maria Nikolaevna - Frederic Dortez, son neveu
Tatiana Nikolaevna - Mme. Bellamara, veuve
Countess Hendrikova - Cyprienne, sa fille
Olga Nikolaevna - Maman Miette, gouvernante de la maison Dorthez
4/17 February
Packing Up, by Grattan
Anastasia Nikolaevna - Mr. Chugwater
Maria Nikolaevna - Mrs. Chugwater
Aleksei Nikolaevich - Luggage man
Stanley Gibbes - Stage Manager
11/24 February
In and Out of a Punt, by H.V. Esmond
Tatiana Nikolaevna - Margaret
Stanley Gibbes - Hugh
Pierre Gilliard - Stage Manager
18 February/3 March
The Crystal Gazer, by Leopold Montague Esq.
Maria Nikolaevna - Miss Bessie Blank
Stanley Gibbes - The Crystal Gazer; stage manager
18 February/3 March
The Bear, by Chekhov
Olga Nikolaevna - Popova
Nicholas II - Smirnov
Maria Nikolaevna - Louka
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>this thread for the 900,000th time
Royalists are fucking pathetic
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>>1429378
>oh no a thread on /his/ actually about history with quotes, images and information
speaking of fucking pathetic
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Photos on the wall from Nicholas & Alexandra's bedroom at Ipatiev
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A chandelier which hung in the girls' bedroom at Ipatiev. The chandelier was taken by Charles Gibbes when he was able to visit the site, along with some other remaining items, such as some of the girls' workbooks, their personal icons, and so on.
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Numerous relics were retrieved from the house in the decades following the murder (including a large piece of wall, which was sold to an English collector), which was gradually becoming a popular site for curiosity seekers and people sympathetic to the Romanov family. Postcards were made of photos from the Ipatiev House and sold in town.
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Some of the weapons used to kill the family. The pistol and bayonet were given in the 90s to the Russian government by the son of one of the executioners. The holster is was owned by Yurovsky.
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Why do people care about this? Literally MILLIONS of Russians died in Nicky's stupid war, mousy of them far worse deaths than these. Is the fact that some girls died supposed to change my opinion about politics?
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I know that Nicky was a shit ruler but this still feels like a tragedy.
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>>1430292
Nicky was an awful leader but the Reds shot a bunch of fucking teenagers and kids because MUH MONARCHY
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>>1426586
Unfriendly reminder that all bolsheivks should be boiled alive
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>>1430328
You are not a rational person.
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>>1430345
New petition to bayonet babies because of how shitty of a ruler the Emperor is
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>>1430292
They were the fucking royal family you nigger, not some filthy peasant farmers.
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Feudalismcucks need to be boiled alive.
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>>1430383
Communism killed a million times more people that feudalism m8
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>>1430368
>They were the fucking royal family you nigger
I don't care if they were fucking a white males. They weren't even a cool royal family.
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>>1430292
>Why do people care about this?
Because multiple women, men and a child (who were the last royal family of Russia, and therefore in a position of prominence) were brutally murdered? No one's saying "Here's how the Romanovs died*
* btw none of the peasants death in history mattered ever lmao"
>Is the fact that some girls died supposed to change my opinion about politics?
Where did anyone say that?
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>>1430431
>They weren't even a cool royal family.
>implying the daughters weren't cool
Even the guards at the house liked them. ( That's why they all had to be replaced shortly before the murders, because the guards who knew them refused to kill the daughters, Alexei or the empress (whom they hated, but, not enough to kill).
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>>1430383
>muh feudalism bad meme
>lives in a world where 300 people control 100 trillion dollars
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They deserved it.
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>>1430522
Nick did. Not a bunch of children
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>>1430522
lmao yes XD red army 4ever!!
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>3mlns died in WWI
>5mlns died in the Civil War
>5mlns died from famine during the Civil War
I find it hard to feel sorry for them, this being the direct results of Nick's abysmal rule.
>But what about children, they did nothing wrong!11
Neither did all that millions who died as a result of his rule, yet no one gives a shit about them.
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>>1430515
>there are ~1,500 billionaires in the world
>3.25 billion people make fewer than 2 dollars a day
Fug
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>>1430543
Yup.
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>>1430619
The richest 300 people in the world have more money than the poorest 3,000,000,000
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>>1430602
Why do you think they are mutually exclusive...? You do realize you can care about more than one thing, right?
That's like saying you can't care or write about Lincoln being assassinated because "people died during the American Civil War too!!!!!"
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I would have done it myself
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>>1430602
>Neither did all that millions who died as a result of his rule, yet no one gives a shit about them.
It's more complicated than that, though.
The reason people care so much about the Romanovs (or any similar specific figures, tragic or not) is that they are specific people. In this case, people who left behind diaries and video footage and letters and journals and tons of personal pictures where they're just doing everyday things.
People don't really respond to numbers or abstract figures. People respond to, well, people.
If you write a book about a specific person, or specific family, or specific group of people, and give others a way to identify and understand them, then they will show a lot more interest than just saying "millions of people." It's why when there are mass shootings, or if you're in a museum for genocide or any other type of tragedy like the Titanic sinking, there are usually photographs, names, personal belongings, etc, something to take away the faceless concept of "(number) of people died") and make it real.
If you told the average person "millions of people died during Nicholas II's rule" they will probably say "oh, well, that's awful." If you show the average person a specific story--here's the little doll made by a girl whose father was imprisoned for political speech, she died of malnutrition when her family couldn't afford to feed themselves--then it creates a connection that otherwise wasn't there. Likewise, if you tell the average person "the Romanov family was executed," they will probably say "oh, well, that's awful," but if you show them the photos of the family in carefree days or discuss how brutal their death was, it creates a connection.
In the case of the Romanovs, they are unique because there is really massive amounts of personality in the photographs they left behind, and it brings them to a personable level that is rather unprecedented in terms of victims of revolutions or regime changes.
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>>1430687
But those billions of people wouldn't even exist were it not for global industrial capitalism. This huge deficit only exists because technology enables so many extra people to stay alive.
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>>1430656
It's not mutually exclusive, no, but it's hard to get expected emotional reaction once you put the tragedy in the context. At the same time, there is a tendency in media to concentrate on them and to make them into some kind of martyrs and tragic heroes and I think it devalues the sufferings of others, many of which being direct result of Tsar's (in)action. Russian Church even proclaimed them as saints in 2000, despite all that Rasputin stuff and their deaths having nothing to do with religion.
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>>1430317
Because it's a wildly detailed event where a family that loved each other was massacred in the same room together by butchers.
The utter brutality makes you forget politics and see it only as a family being murdered, which is what it was in the end.
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>>1429378
gommie detected
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>>1426666
Damn what a way to go.
>>1430292
The attention it receives is a bit silly, especially when the Bolsheviks had so many other victims you can sympathise with, which didn't include autocrats. I guess it gained traction because the royal family makes for a bigger story and it's fairly well-documented and dramatic.
Personally I don't care that much that the Emperor was shot. Even though he was sort of a victim himself of the role he was born into at the end of the day I can't fault the Bolsheviks for shooting the man who had mismanaged the country so badly. His children were innocent though, but no more innocent than any other innocents that suffered as a result of the red terror and other Bolshevik crimes.
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>>1430732
How does it devalue the suffering of others to feel bad for four young women, a teenage boy, and several servants who were truly brutally murdered, and had no political power and were not involved in the government other than (for the daughters) acting as nurses in WWI?
>Russian Church even proclaimed them as saints in 2000, despite all that Rasputin stuff and their deaths having nothing to do with religion.
>and their deaths having nothing to do with religion.
They--along with some of the servants, those who followed Russian Orthodoxy--are passion bearers in the Russian Orthodox church, not martyrs. Passion bearers are people who died while still having faith (which the family definitely did) and in a "Christ-like" way, meaning they suffered and died at the hands of someone considered an enemy, usually political but not always. When they were canonized, they were not referred to as martyrs, but as "people who sincerely sought to live by the commandments of the Gospels." To put it into perspective, 860 other people were canonized at the same time.
They are saints in the Russian Orthodox church, but in the Russian Orthodox church, every believer who dies and goes to heaven is a saint, so they'd be saints regardless of how they died.
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>>1430710
Quality post.
As regards Nicholas II, all the photos of his family make me think about how being a good father does not necessarily make one a good emperor. Nobody can deny his personal tragedy, even if the public tragedy of his rule was far greater.
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Death to all autocrats and monarchists!
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>>1426599
>Only in the forest did I finally discover the reason why it had been so hard to kill the daughters and Alexandra Feodrovna.
What was in the forest?
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>>1432177
The forest is where they stripped the bodies and found that they had jewels sewn into their clothing.
>When we began to undress the bodies, we discovered something on the daughters and on Alexandra Feodrovna. I do not remember exactly what she had on, the same as on the daughters or simply things that had been sewed on. But the daughters had on bodices almost entirely of diamonds and [other] precious stones. Those were not only places for valuables but protective armor at the same time. That is why neither bullets nor bayonets got result
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Ayy lmao
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desu I'm glad they fucking died
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>mfw Western commietards bought commie propaganda
PЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭ
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>>1430543
>Nick did. Not a bunch of children
Children were members of a royal dynasty. If you want to annihilate one, you annihilate the whole family.
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>>1426581
Best day of my life.
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>>1433068
Can you imagine if your government said that about your family because your dad is a criminal, guilt is not a blanket to cover everyone related to the criminal, it is for the criminal alone. The family by in large though complicit did not know any better and were innocent.
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Getting tired of edgy 18 year olds on /his/ who keep screaming "I WISH I COULD HAVE SHOT THEM MYSELF!"
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>>1433119
I say it again.
>Children were members of a royal dynasty.
>If you want to annihilate one, you annihilate the whole family.
Because the family isn't an average family.
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>>1433168
Wanting to kill someone doesn't justify killing someone. Their blood isn't magical and they aren't any more deserving of getting killed than any other innocent person.
There are plenty of dynasties that have been ended without killing everyone. (not to mention that they didn't even kill all the Romanovs but the dynasty never came back anyway)
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>>1431925
I was reading a book about the long 19th Century and a line that really stuck with me was just how much happier Nick would have been if he was just a middle-high aristocrat, affable and pleasant enough to keep everything running smooth yet not under pressure to make huge decisions that affect the entire realm.
>>
>>1433178
>Wanting to kill someone doesn't justify killing someone.
Was telling you the logic behind why Russians killed them.
>Their blood isn't magical
To the average Russian Peasant: it was.
Which is why foreign soldiers did the shooting.
You never lived in a monarchy where people took the dynasty seriously.
>>
>>1433178
>Their blood isn't magical
No, but the whole premise of monarchy is that it is.
>>
"One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic": the thread
Good job proving Stalin right, monarcucks.
>>
>>1433178
>Wanting to kill someone doesn't justify killing someone.
That's where you're wrong. It's the only justification for killing someone.
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>>1430492
>(who were the last royal family of Russia, and therefore in a position of prominence) were brutally murdered?
This sort of thing is the reason WHY they was murdered. If they wasn't, some foreign royal state could bother to invade for no reason.
Or there could have been some infringed peasant rebellion for no reason.
>>1430710
>In the case of the Romanovs, they are unique because there is really massive amounts of personality in the photographs they left behind
Wrong.
The Romanovs are unique because:
1. They was highly educated
2. They was royality, meaning the Euro royality would shill for their case for a long time afterwards
3. Because they was fringe Euro Royality, just like with the Jews, effort was done to elevate the documentation and family photos
4. Because they was "rich", they had access to more devices to do family photos. Compared to a average citizen in a rich country, past the 1930s, their documentation isn't that good
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>>1433178
>Their blood isn't magical
It sorta is, because other high class/status dynasties will fight for them, in a very specific way. Even if its a 30-50 year long proxy war, with occasional assassins.
And to the average peasant, their blood SHITS magic. Because to the average peasant, the entire state system has been used to perpetuate the legend of the bloods divinity.
Bonus point: Adoption is only safe is the child is a infant.
Otherwise there might be side effects, such as proxy wars, or abduction by foreign royals for the sake of taking over Russia.
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>>1433148
Yep. Super boring.
Reminds me of the time I went to see the touring Romanov Faberge exhibition (basically a ton of their personal Faberge frames, and several of the Faberge eggs) and some guy in a green army jacket kept muttering about how they were spoiled brats who deserved to die because they were allowed to give Faberge frames as gifts and I just had to laugh like well good for you asshole, spending $20 to get into this exhibition so you could complain.
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>>1433263
>This sort of thing is the reason WHY they was murdered. If they wasn't, some foreign royal state could bother to invade for no reason.
Women had no political power in Russia at this point. MALE Romanovs escaped and survived and by golly, no foreign armies invaded Russia, did they? Because in order to even consider trying to invade Russia and retake the government, they needed an absolutely solid foundation--a male heir with an incontestable claim to the throne that the people would genuinely rally behind, not a girl. Even then, no foreign army was going to bother invading--England wouldn't even bother sending in a group to get the Romanovs when they were being OFFERED UP by the interim government.
>>1433263
Wow, the point went way over your head, didn't it?
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>>1433908
>Women had no political power in Russia at this point.
Invalid by itself. If you think that, you don't understand what gender roles is, even less what it means for Monarchs.
>>
>In Moscow
>Go to museum that features Russian monarchy from Rurik to Nicky
>Rurikovich section filled with lots of cool stories and ledgends
>Start of Romanov section and get to awkward royal succession
>Gets to ww1
>FEEL TRIP
>Nicky and his family have the largest section
>More people here than anywhere else in the exhibit
>Russians still feel bad for this
Interesting desu
I believe Russia today would have a much nicer international popularity if they had a system similar to the UK
>>
Has anyone here read the Manifesto on Unshakable Autocracy?
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>>1435277
>If you think that, you don't understand what gender roles is, even less what it means for Monarchs.
In Russia, the Empress (and after 1912, Olga in case the Empress died, due the amended regency law which allowed women to be acting temporary regents in cases of crisis) could only have any power in cases where the Emperor had to physically leave the throne in cases of war/crisis as a temporary regent. Hence, Alexandra could be named Regent for part of WWI when Nicholas II was actively in field, but she would not be considered Regent or have any claim to the throne if Nicholas II had died, or in the era of the revolution, had been killed/captured and the family set free. (For instance, when Nicholas II originally abdicated, he gave up the throne for Alexei who would have ruled under the regency of Grand Duke Michael, Nicholas II's younger brother--not Alexandra.)
However, in terms of succession, the daughters were on looser ground.
1/2
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>>1436684
2/2
In Russia, the line of succession went through the male line first--emperor and his male children, or the emperor's brothers and their male children, or the emperor's male cousins and their male children, etc. The succession could only be go through the female line if to every single male line heir to the throne (which included the tsar's brothers, nephews, cousins, etc, all males who had not been disinherited through morganatic marriages or who were not descended through these royally invalid marriages) was dead. Then once it did start going through the female family line, men were considered first. So if the a sister or cousin had a (valid) son, that son would be considered heir over the tsar's daughters. And that's assuming the tsar's daughters weren't married to someone foreign or someone of an unequal rank, either of which invalidated their claim to the throne.
So in order for the daughters to have any political significance in Russia--the type of political significance that would have made a foreign country invade Russia with an army to put her on the throne--there would have had to have been an absolute massacre of male Romanovs first, and they'd have to be single or married to a non-foreigner of equal rank to a grand duchess. And even then, it would have been a massive risk: would the Russian people be receptive to the idea of a tsarina forced on the throne? Especially since it'd be Olga, who was much like her mother (who was detested by the people) in terms of attitude and personality?
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>>1435480
Yes, there is a pretty explicit amount of sympathy in Russia for them. In fact the recent "Anastasia" musical was originally intended to premiere in Russia on the 100th anniversary of their deaths, before the producers changed.
The Church of the Blood, built on the site of the Ipatiev House, is very popular for Romanov memorials and religious services as well.
That's why the Ipatiev itself was torn down in the 70s, people were showing too much public sympathy and mourning for the family. Same reason why Napoleon had the Temple in Paris torn down, which was the site of the captivity of Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette and their family.
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>>1436710
And related, Boris Yeltsin gave a speech when the family's remains were interred in St. Petersburg in the late 90s:
Dear fellow citizens:
It's a historic day for Russia. Eighty years have passed since the slaying of the last Russian emperor and his family. We have long been silent about this monstrous crime. We must say the truth: The Yekaterinburg massacre has become one of the most shameful episodes in our history.
By burying the remains of innocent victims, we want to atone for the sins of our ancestors.
Those who committed this crime are as guilty as are those who approved of it for decades. We are all guilty.
It is impossible to lie to ourselves by justifying senseless cruelty on political grounds. The shooting of the Romanov family is a result of an uncompromising split in Russian society into ''us'' and ''them.'' The results of this split can be seen even now.
The burial of the remains of Yekaterinburg is, first of all, an act of human justice. It's a symbol of unity of the nation, an atonement of common guilt.
We all bear responsibility for the historical memory of the nation. And that's why I could not fail to come here. I must be here as both an individual and the president.
I bow my head before the victims of the merciless slaying.
While building a new Russia, we must rely on its historical experience.
Many glorious pages of Russian history were connected with the Romanovs. But with this name is connected one of the most bitter lessons: Any attempts to change life by violence is condemned to failure.
We must end the century, which has been an age of blood and violence in Russia, with repentance and peace, regardless of political views, ethnic or religious belonging.
This is our historic chance. On the eve of the third millennium, we must do it for the sake of our generation and those to come. Let's remember those innocent victims who have fallen to hatred and violence. May they rest in peace.
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>>1426586
kike?
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>>1427830
Fuck off
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>>1430522
edgy post lad! stay cucked faggot
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>>1429378
God forbid people are actually posting about history for once.
>>
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>>1430522
>>
Nicholas' sister Olga on meeting Anna Anderson:
>My beloved Anastasia was fifteen when I saw her for the last time in the summer of 1916. She would have been twenty-four in 1925. I thought Mrs. Anderson looked much older than that. Of course, one had to make allowances for a very long illness ... All the same, my niece's features could not possibly have altered out of all recognition. The nose, the mouth, the eyes were all different. .. As soon as I sat down by that bed in the Mommsen Nursing Home, I knew I was looking at a stranger. ... I had left Denmark with something of a hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished.
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>>1433263
>They was
Fuck off with those Ebonics, nigger.
>>
The Romanovs were canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad in 1981 and the Russian Orthodox Church recognized them as passion bearers in 2000.
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>>1436698
>>1436684
>In Russia, the line of succession went through the male line first
You are missing a key word: "USUALLY".
And then you even prove the point:
>The succession could only be go through the female line if to every single male line heir to the throne (which included the tsar's brothers, nephews, cousins, etc, all males who had not been disinherited through morganatic marriages or who were not descended through these royally invalid marriages)
You are saying: If there is no heir, Females are perfectly valid for a coup or foreign invasion, or peasant rebellion.
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>>1438148
He's also pointing out that there were heirs with stronger claims running around and none of the above happened.
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>>1438148
>You are missing a key word: "USUALLY".
And you're missing the fact that...
>You are saying: If there is no heir, Females are perfectly valid for a coup or foreign invasion, or peasant rebellion.
In order for there to be a female heir with a strong claim to the throne, a significant amount of men would have had to have died (who didn't, and were alive and running around Europe); none of the female heirs could have any male children; none of the grand duchess heirs could be married to a foreigner or someone below their rank or if they weren't grand duchesses, they had to be married after the laws were slightly relaxed in 1912; and even then, a female heir was risky because women were not considered suitable for the throne at this point in an ordinary succession... much less one in the context of the grand duchesses being exiled during the revolution, where you would have a foreign army or exile army or on-shaky-ground Russian royalist army attempting to reverse the revolution and force an empress on the throne. Again, especially, if it was Olga who was not exactly the most popular of the four sisters due to her resemblance and affinity with her mother.
So. As >>1438221 succinctly put it, there were MALE HEIRS with stronger claims than the grand duchesses alive and well and there was no coup, foreign invasion, or peasant rebellion. So why would it happen with the grand duchesses, who were lower on the totem pole?
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>>1438359
>and there was no coup
Read your history illiterate. The February revolution was first, and October is a lot later that year.
They LITERALLY executed the Royal family the year after another coup
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>>1439756
the October Revolution was not a coup related to re-establishing a monarchy, which is what we're talking about.
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daily reminder that the parasite tsar was executed by a jew
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>>1440025
The October Revolution was a coup, and thats the point. The longer the Tsar was alive, the longer more coups could come.
The longer the Tsar was alive, the more foreign states could get a cool reason to invade.
The longer the Tsar family was alive, it was basically the same.
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>>1429378
I bet you came for the humanities faggot
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>>1430345
you are not a rational person.
>>
Fucking jews man.
That is all.
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they were executed as rats hhahaha
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>>1430328
I fully agree.
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>>1426709
Nope
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the russian empire became in a joke in 1881. because the dumb tsar got killed by an (((anarchist))) ahaha
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This is the type of shit that makes me despise collectivists. Better dead than red, I'm glad all the "communist" countries that looked to the Soviets are now starving shitholes.
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>>1440264
>Better dead than red
nonon is the other way
>I'm glad all the "communist" countries that looked to the Soviets are now starving shitholes.
you got something right there....these countries decided to be ""free"" and now they are shitholes haha
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>>1440264
>This is the type of shit that makes me despise collectivists.
Well that's absurd. There are many good reasons to hate communism, but you managed to pick a stupid one.
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>>1440271
There is literally no section of humanity I wish more terrible things on than the Shabbos goy marxists of today. If I was around back then, of course I'd want to throw bolsheviks from helicopters. But I hate modern marxists and all their degenerate affiliated groups with an even greater passion.
>>
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>>1440310
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>>1440384
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>>1440398
those dudes are not different from you LOL
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>>1426581
He was not fit to be ruler,but he, his family and his people certainly haven't earned the treatment which they've ultimately received.
66 million Russians butchered by a Semite-led regime, a monstrous loss of life.
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>the only part of the Romanov dominions that escaped communism, Finland, became the best country in the world
How communists answer that?
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>>1440926
finngolians are still butthurt over russia
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>>1440123
No, that's not the point. We're talking about what would happen if they had let the grand duchesses (or hell, even Alexei and Alexandra) live and send them outside of Russia into exile like the rest of their family. People say "oh but they HAD to, otherwise--invasion!! coup!!" even though it's been shown that there were male heirs and no one attempted an invasion or coup for them. The grand duchesses had even less of a claim to the throne because of Russian succession laws.
And you're still missing the point.
There were heirs to the throne, male heirs, alive and well after the family was executed--yet no one invaded or proposed to invade. England wouldn't send troops when they were being practically invited, on friendly terms, to come collect the tsar and his family for exile. Why in the fuck would any country attempt to invade Russia to put them back on the throne with the military coup going on?
>>
who?
>>
>actual thread with some good historical content
>commies flood it with their edgy shitposting
Every time
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>>1426914
God that's sad
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>>1441855
nicky pls go
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>>1441889
Nicky is dead.
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>>1426709
Not at all, objectively
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let's start the edgy shitposting hahaha
>>
Highly romanticized, they were responsible for brutal things done under a brutal monarchy. The whitewashing on this is baffling.
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>>1442014
NONONO the tsar was the best man of history
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>>1442014
Maybe the Tsar being an incompetent failure doesn't justify murdering his children?
Just a thought.
>>
killing the children of the welfare ruler is justified
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>>1442024
I don't see you weeping and making "muh feelz" threads about the literal millions of women&children that died because of him.
>>
more ""edgy shitposting""
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>>1442033
Probably because I haven't been weeping or making feels threads about anyone dying at all.
Nicky was a pathetic ruler that ended up brutally suppressing reformist movements out of a misguided attempt to preserve his father's ideals and the Manifesto of Unshakable Autocracy. He might have been well suited to a constitutional role where his fairly happy family held the affection of the nation without him having to personally decide anything, but he was a completely awful absolutist ruler.
The execution of the entire family is still hard to justify.
>>
if the entire family survived, they would try to put their bullshit again, and giving more motivation to white armies
>>
What is with all these commie smucks posting here and gloryfying the death of a family. Communism killed more in a shorter time than the entire feudal period combined. And hete they are praising it as the best thing that happened.
It weird that the russians kill their own ruler, only to swap their autocratic rule for another authocratic ruler. In the end, nothing has changed even to this day it is still the same. Its like the people always want an autocrat to rule them.
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>>1442160
>Communism killed more in a shorter time than the entire feudal period combined.
t. trotsky
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>>1433908
>No armies invaded Russia
They did tho
>>
>>
>>1442207
Troops being anti-Bolshevik and working with the Whites =/= foreign invasion to reestablish monarchy, They weren't in Russia in order to put the Romanovs back on the throne and re-establish a monarchy, which is what we're talking about.
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>>1443667
Literally pointing me to romanticism, the post.
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>>1430687
>Fat slobs everywhere dependent on the hand that feeds.
>better
>>
>>1430732
I'm just bothered by the fact women and children were brutally slain. Made me feel sick reading it context or no context.
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>>1440962
>even though it's been shown that there were male heirs
There was no direct heirs on male side.
Nor on female side.
Hence there is no data.
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>>1443925
But there were still heirs.
Across Europe there were heirs to various thrones that got overthrown but they were never reestablished.
Nor do you address his point that the English didn't even bother to try and help Nicky while he was still in Russia. Why would anything change?
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>>1443950
>Nor do you address his point that the English didn't even bother to try and help Nicky
Please look at a fucking world map.
There are 2 routes to Russia from Britain: You have to either dare the Swedish Norway of the times, and hope north is not frozen over.
Or you could enter via Baltic, which still leaves a few months mobilization of a army to cross towards where Nicky was.
This isn't like Napoleon, where he bordered his enemies.
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>>1444283
How does any of this support the idea that foreign powers would invade Russia to support the Romanov dynasty?
Not to mention that Nicky was not imprisoned nor in the middle of bumfuck Russia at the time he wanted the UK to help him and give him asylum. They would have been able to get him.
>>
>>1444307
Because the biggest Dangers to Revolution Russia wasn't Central Europa. Central Europa was so far away, they couldn't invade if they wanted to. To the point where Hitler invading literally proved it takes a lot more than just some planning and some rail road to invade.
The biggest danger would be another part of the nation having a uprising, and it then uses close family of Tsar to ally with any of the close neighbors of Russia.
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>>1443690
I'm not sure what you're not getting.
The reason you don't see the same level of MUH FEELZ threads about people who died under the reign of Nicholas II (or any ruler/regime) is that people don't really care about a statistical number in the same way they care about individuals. They don't even really care about general groups in the same way as they care about individuals. You can't really go MUH FEELZ over a nameless, faceless group. You can go MUH FEELZ over specific people or groups who have names, faces, personalities, personal objects, etc, that they left behind.
It's why they make sure to personalize memorials and museums about tragedies, massacres, genocides, and so on, with pictures and quotes and stories and and personal objects--because people as a whole connect when you create a tangible, human connection rather than just saying "they died."
Yeah, it is romanticism, because when someone dies they're usually romanticized to varying degrees by the people who remember them. But in this case, we're talking about four young women, a teenage boy, and non-political servants who didn't do anything to justify being murdered. "The whitewashing on this is baffling," "they were responsible," are bullshit statements.
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>>1443925
But there were heirs, based on the Russian line of succession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_former_Russian_throne
And that's not taking into consideration the female line, though it only would have mattered if all the men died.
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>>1444452
>though it only would have mattered if all the men died.
No anon, that a illusion.
Remember: Real threat is civil war with foreign invaders, not "muh shitty thrown away Aristocrat rebellion".
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>>1426581
>jews
>marxism
>bolsheviks
>communism
>EVER
>>
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>>1444852
Thread posts: 173
Thread images: 49
Thread images: 49