Why do pravoslavian christians (''orthodox'')

>>1076568

Amazing how moving further up along the vertical on this diagram correlates with churches becoming more and more ridiculous.

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http://whynotcatholicism.net/view/the-early-church-was-catholic

>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 16:18-19

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE

>>1076580
Indeed, but remember what He said:
>>1076585
>the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

>>1076580
>Amazing how moving further up along the vertical on this diagram correlates with churches becoming more and more ridiculous.

The people ascending to heaven are ridiculous.

>>1076585

Peter = Petros

Foundation = petra

Peter is literally excluded from being the foundation. It can be anything except Peter.

And it just so happens to be Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

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>>1076580
>>1076588
The muslim conquests, the massacre of the latins, the Great Schism, protestantism, the demonic pedophilia cases, etc. none of it could destroy the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

>>1076594

>protestants unironically think they're Christ

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>>1076597
Nice try proddy, pic related, what He actually said.

http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/Mattich16.pdf

As I've told you before, it is a wordplay. Deal with it.

I know Catholicism and Orthodoxy claim to be the "true" path but are there any Churches around today that try and practice as close to the Early Church as possible?

>>1076652
Yeah, the churches of Armenia/Ethiopia/Syria are pretty ancient.

>>1076652
>>1076585
>http://whynotcatholicism.net/view/the-early-church-was-catholic

>>1076568
So which Skydaddy is best Skydaddy then?

>>1076657
Interesting, I'll have to read about them.

The Oriental Church is also fascinating.

>>1076674
Probably Zeus/Jupiter.

Dude actually went out and got laid rather then knocking up one single probably ugly, jewish woman through magic powers or whatever the fuck.

When the classical deities of the greco-roman world cucked, they cucked absofuckinglutely everybody including themselves.

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>Then we can preach the gospel in the regions far beyond you without boasting about things already accomplished by someone else.
2 Corinthians 10:16

>And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations.
Mark 13:10

Who did so? The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church or pravoslavian schismatics?

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>>1076674
>Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Galatians 6:7

>>1076597
>>1076640
#rekt

>>1076700
Adam. Adam is the best god.

What an idiot you are.

>>1076610
We unironically died in Christ, and are therefore alive, yes.

>but muh cannibalism

>>1076640

What a lying sack of shit you are. The bible was not written in Aramaic, and you have absolutely zero evidence that Jesus was speaking Aramaic.

Zero.

When the inspired writers of the bible wrote it in Greek, they took pains to make it perfectly clear that Peter, whom Jesus called satan about a minute later, was not the foundation of the church.

At all.

>muh keys

>>1076792
Another idiot to assure the first idiot that the Greek the bible was written in is incorrect.

>>1076807
>and you have absolutely zero evidence that Jesus was speaking Aramaic.
He wasn't speaking greek, that's for sure. It's all about Lingua Franca.

Why do different Christian sects claim the Bible isn't infallible and acknowledge the Gospels were written quite late but then bicker over the meaning of different verses to prove their points? And yes Matthew 16:18 is exactly what I'm referring to: Matthew wasn't written until approx 80AD yet people argue over that verse like their lives depend on it

>>1076764
Ooooohh real scary christard, too bad that the galatians wound up chasing the bible banging dipshits out of their lands and were ultimately peacefully absorbed into the romanized peoples of anatolia.

>>1076819
The inspired authors of the bible wrote it in Greek.

Not Aramaic.

The only passages in the bible in Aramaic are from Babylon.

>>1076798
Hmm? According to christian mythology adam wasn't a deity, he was the first human.

>>1076822
>Slipping peacefully into hell is a good thing.

>>1076827
Yup. And then the Greeks deified him, as they deified many others.

If the Greeks deify you, it does not make you a god.

>>1076825
>The inspired authors
Also known as the people making shit up, just so the rational people in the crowd understand what the delusional types are actually trying to say here.

>>1076822
Please have sex.
>>1076825
Please fuck off to /pol/. Please, pretty please? I can deal with you on /pol/ because I know your argument is absolute shit, but you're bringing the image of Christians on /his/ down.

>>1076829
Roman society was actually quite nice, and far from being any sort of hell even in the latter days of the empire.

Unless you're referring to the christian hell in which case I feel it necessary to remind you that place is as fictional as the heaven of the same mythology.

>>1076820
Also, Peter is the one with the keys, but from the sounds of it he and James didnt bother with the gentiles. What gives?

>>1076837
That's how they're known to you, which is why you're slipping into hell.

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>>1076807
>The bible was not written in Aramaic
I never said this. What Jesus Christ said though is: ''(You are) Keepa (and on this) Keepa (I will build my Church)...''

In french for example it's:
...tu es Pierre, et sur cette pierre...

It is an obvious wordplay, wether you like it or not.

>you have absolutely zero evidence that Jesus was speaking Aramaic
Weak bait.

>Peter, whom Jesus called satan about a minute later, was not the foundation of the church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE

>muh keys
Too stupid for symbolism, aren't you? Silly proddy.

>>1076839
You're not a Christian.

>>1076839
>Please have sex.
Are you offering? Because I already get sex from some nice ladies down at the local "massage" parlor. I'm not interest in hairy fat 4chan dudes.

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>>1076820
>the Gospels were written quite late
r e m i n d e r

>>1076834
>>Yup. And then the Greeks deified him, as they deified many others.
And what is your point here exactly?

>>If the Greeks deify you, it does not make you a god.
Yes and? Not seeing what you're trying to get at here.

>>1076855
I'm not the one who claims to never go to Church.
>>1076857
>paying a prostitute
What a schmuck.

>>1076844
Ask the Christians being thrown to the lions if it was quite nice.

>>1076867
>not paying a prostitute
Enjoy wasting money on the fat disgusting pigs that the average modern american woman has turned into.

>>1076847
Peter used the keys to open heaven to the Jews at Pentecost and to the Gentiles who were obviously already saved at Cornelius' house.

There is no more use for the keys. They were not physical. The were not handed down. They are yet another papist lie to grasp power.

>>1076874
>he isn't going for those Mexicans girls

>>1076851
The inspired writer took pains to make sure you would not think that was the case.

So you do not believe in the inspiration of the bible.

So you do not comprehend the bible.

>>1076865
That saying Zeus/Jupiter is the best god, you are worshiping a human being deified by other human beings. And that following them is following them to hell, in Nimrod's case.

>>1076873
Two things: It is highly doubtful that christians were actually fed to lions all that much or ever.

Secondly, the christians of the early roman empire were seditionists and traitors who attempted to undermine the roman state at every opportunity. Try to seriously undermine the military and economic efforts of any given modern state and see how fast they find a reason to imprison you for a damn long time.

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>>1076822
>The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7

>The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
Proverbs 8:13

>The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
Proverbs 9:10

>The fear of the Lord prolongs life, but the years of the wicked will be short.
Proverbs 10:27

>In the fear of the Lord one has strong confidence, and his children will have a refuge.
Proverbs 14:26

>The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that one may turn away from the snares of death.
Proverbs 14:27

>Better is a little with the fear of the Lord than great treasure and trouble with it.
Proverbs 15:16

>By steadfast love and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for, and by the fear of the Lord one turns away from evil.
Proverbs 16:6

>The fear of the Lord leads to life, and whoever has it rests satisfied; he will not be visited by harm.
Proverbs 19:23

>The reward for humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life.
Proverbs 22:4

>Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy. Blessed is the one who fears the Lord always, but whoever hardens his heart will fall into calamity.
Proverbs 28:13-14

>>1076886
>The inspired writer took pains to make sure you would not think that was the case.
Do you actually believe the bs that you write?

>>1076912
I believe all truth, no matter how inconvenient.

>>1076892
>>That saying Zeus/Jupiter is the best god, you are worshiping a human being deified by other human beings.
There is nothing akin to reliable evidence that the classical greek and roman pantheons were humans made into deities. Not the main gods and goddesses that everyone is familiar with anyway.

Besides, jesus wasn't a deity either, he was an idiot that got nailed to piece of wood for defying the authorities in the province of Judea.

>>And that following them is following them to hell
Except hell is fictional so this is wrong.

Oh and did I forget to mention that I'm not actually religious? I just find the deities of classical mythology far more entertaining then anything found in christian mythology.

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>>1076917
Too bad you're biblically illiterate, silly proddy.

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>>1076896
>A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

Any other pitiful attempts to make me afraid of your imaginary friend you want to try?

>>1076929
>following a fag
Are you gay?

>>1076929
Oh wait a minute, the webm here >>1076896
Was taken from a fire somewhere wasn't it? Probably on an oil rig or someshit like that. Now you got me all bummed out and shit for the poor bastards who died or were permanently disfigured in the blaze.

You're almost as much of a dick as the skyfairy you worship christard.

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>>1076929
>The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14

>>1076938
>following a guy who got rekt by the authorities for doing stupid shit
Are you retarded?

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>>1076942
Yeah no that bullshit doesn't work either.

>>1076953
Better a law-breaker than a faggot.

>>1076652
Both Eastern an Oriental Orthodox really do practice very similarly to the ancient Church. For reference, we (Eastern Orthodox) sing hymns that were called ancient tradition as far back as the fifth century AD.

>>1076963
Not really, especially when roman laws were surprisingly minimalist.

>Pay your taxes
>Do not attempt to rebel against the state
>Do not kill each other and/or set random things on fire

Fuck man they even had legal drugs and prostitutes.

>>1076942
Well by that logic any conversation by a believer with a nonbeliever is pointless, because only the believer has the means of sensing the truth. A proposition which to any nonbeliever appears to be a form of delusion

So if we cannot agree to stick to materialist facts for the sake of dialog what is the point?

>>1076971
So? It's better to follow a lawbreaker that dies for his cause than a fag that does nothing but write.

>>1076940
>Was taken from a fire somewhere wasn't it? Probably on an oil rig or someshit like that.
No, it was during a homosexual party, 500+ were injured.

>Now you got me all bummed out and shit
You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

>>1076979
The point for believer is for the rest of us to convert to his religion. There is no logical debate to be had here because no religious person thinks their way into their religion in the first place.

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>>1076960
>>1076979
>How great are your works, O LORD! Your thoughts are very deep! The stupid man cannot know; the fool cannot understand this.

Psalm 92:5-6

>>1076995
Why do you post the same images here every day

Also I'm still waiting for an answer to >>1076820

>>1076981
Depends on the cause really, the early christians wanted to undermine and destroy a reasonably peaceful and prosperous empire in the name of a non-existent heavenly utopia.

See this here>>1076983
?
Specifically the bible quote?

The people who wrote that down were spiteful pricks who hated all the good things of this actual life in favor of a supposed heavenly existence that will only happen after we die.

>>1076918

Urine idiot.

>>1076926
>Does not believe the bible.

>>1076995
In modern speak thats the same as saying: everyone who disagrees with my religion is a fool

Its the ancient equivalent of shit posting

>>1076960
Of course it does.

>>1077008
So it's better to follow a writer that bitches and whines about stupid shit and is followed by fedoras, correct?

>>1077006
Your question was insipid; why should anyone respond to it?

>>1077013
I have no idea how to take this other then you being a moronic autist.

I mean really "urine idiot"? Is that the best lame pun your dumb ass can come up with?

>>1077017
Exactly. Only the fool says in his heart "there is no God".

>>1077024
That's what I smell when I read your post. Rank, stale urine.

>>1076986
>no religious person thinks their way into their religion in the first place
I became atheist because I lacked understanding like you and I even watched nearly all The Atheist Experience's episodes, I eventually grew out of atheism, became deist and now I'm Catholic again and will remain so until the day I die, meet and hug Jesus Christ.

>>1077006
>Why do you post the same images here every day
Because I like them.

>>1077022
What was insipid about it.

>>1077026
>Its the ancient equivalent of shit posting
>exactly

Nice to see someone keeping tradition alive

>>1077019
No it really doesn't actually because at that point you're just announcing that there is nothing to debate because you have special knowledge that no one else has access to, which is practically no different from something you pulled out of your ass.

>>1077021
Which writer is this? I assure you that voltaire had perfectly legitimate complaints about the french monarchy. And most "fedoras" probably haven't even heard of him as he wasn't an atheist exactly.

>>1077032
Whatever dude, what happened was you returned to the religion of either your family or culture upon becoming an adult. There is no objective truth involved in this process, and if had been born in a place with a different religion you would have returned to that instead.

>>1077037
>Why do different Christian sects
There are no Christian sects. There are Christians, and there is everyone else. All Christians are alive; everyone else is dead.

>claim the Bible isn't infallible
These would be the dead ones.

>and acknowledge the Gospels were written quite late
These would be the dead ones trying to curry favor with the world, not knowing that friendship with the world is enmity with God.

>but then bicker over the meaning of different verses to prove their points?
Dead people enjoy bickering.

>And yes Matthew 16:18 is exactly what I'm referring to: Matthew wasn't written until approx 80AD
Insipid.

>yet people argue over that verse like their lives depend on it
The authority of the Roman Catholic Church crumbles when the verse is properly understood.

>>1077030
So, you're just a typical religious idiot mad that his stupid belief system isn't credible to people with functioning brains, good to know.

>>1077039
I don't believe you, no I know I don't believe you because of fags who shitpost with fedoras quoting him about stupid shit, like the Holy Roman Empire.

>>1077039
Correct. God, God's Word, the things God says will happen; these are not up for debate.

>>1077060
You actually do not have a method to understand the supernatural/spiritual things of reality.

You live as an animal, by your senses.

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>>1077008
>The people who wrote that down were spiteful pricks
It is out of the heart that evil thoughts come, as well as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, stealing, false testimony, and slander. These are the things that make a person unclean. But eating with unwashed hands doesn’t make a person unclean.

Matthew 15:19-20

These are wise words and you know it. Letting a man sodomize you is evil and aknowledging this does not make one a ''spiteful prick''. Satan is literally rubbing his hands everytime you are letting yourself be sodomized.

>>1077058
Where oh where to even start with this post?

>>There are no Christian sects. There are Christians, and there is everyone else. All Christians are alive; everyone else is dead.

I mean really look at this stupid shit, you aren't here to debate anything, nor to discuss historical events, you're just here to browbeat people with christcuck propaganda in a pitiful attempt to convert people to your stupid religion.

What's more you're doing this on 4chan of all the fucking places, holy shit you are hilariously stupid.

>claim the Bible isn't infallible
>These would be the dead ones.
Again more idiocy and nothing to refute either, just more "MY FAITH BEST FAITH FUCK YOU FAGGOT".

>>1077087
Correct.

I am here to tell you the truth.

Correct.

Faith in Jesus Christ is better than faith in anything or anyone else.

See how much you're learning from me being here?

>>1077086
>These are wise words and you know it
No actually I don't know this and I will thank you to stop pretending that you know what I'm thinking. Even the word murder in that quote is open to scrutiny because what sorts of killing is unlawful depends on time and place.

The only two things from that quote I can reasonably agree are bad to do most of the time are false testimony and slander.

>>1077008
>were spiteful pricks

Exactly the opposite. If you read it for yourself, you would see that it goes on to say "and so were some of you."

>>1077100
The only thing you have done so far is to convince me that you are an idiot.

Cuckolding niggerdicks

>>1077108
All you have to do is call someone a fool to be guilty of their murder.

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>>1077017
>They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of their ignorance and hardness of heart.

Ephesians 4:18

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>>1077075
You don't have a means of understanding the supernatural either, because the supernatural doesn't actually exist.

>>1077115
Yup. People who believe the truth, to you, are idiots. Luckily the bible predicted your response.

>>1077128
If you'd like, I'll state openly that animals actually have more understanding of the supernatural/spiritual than you do, if that's what you're plugging for.

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>>1077053
>Whatever dude
That's what I thought.

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>>1077129
How very convenient for the bible, too bad this means all of jack and shit for actual observable reality.

>>1077053
>There is no objective truth

"I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life; no man comes to the Father but by Me."

--Jesus of Nazareth

Apparently there is Truth.

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>>1077136
What thinking? If you were actually capable of serious thought regarding your religion you wouldn't be an adherent of it.

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>>1077140
''If there were no religion, there would be no civilization.''

- Me

>its another denominational autism thread

and christians wonder why they are ridiculed

>>1077165
>I haven't looked at the thread the post

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>>1077145
>>the quote of a guy that got nailed to a tree proves the existence of objective truth and I totally am not just following the religion of my family and peers because that's what I was born with and made the strongest impression upon me

Yeah no.

>>1077167
Don't be rude to the handicapped, please.

>>1077161
Something being useful doesn't mean it's real, the romans used their deities as a bulwark for social stability in their republic and empire, that doesn't mean those deities actually existed.

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>>1077157
>Everything came from nothing!
>Jesus Christ was just a carpenter!
>My thoughts are so serious and superior!
Oh, how wrong you are, poor soul.

>>1077169
>being an atheist
Why?

>>1077169
Not the guy that got nailed to a tree.

The guy who walked out of his grave three days later.

>>1077169
>nailed to a tree

You replied to the ''Everything properly in the Bible is true'' protestant btw, not me (OP, Catholic) >>1077032

I replied to your post >>1077053 with >>1077136, he replied with >>1077145

>>1077195
Why be a Catholic and not a Christian?

>>1077181
>>Everything came from nothing!
Even if there was a creator deity of some sort this is not proof of yours or any other deity.

>Jesus Christ was just a carpenter!
Actually he was that plus a religious teacher and a dissident who was executed for defying the roman authorities.

What he wasn't was a deity of any sort.


>My thoughts are so serious and superior!
They aren't actually, but they are moreso then yours.

>poor soul
Souls don't exist.

>>1076986
Let me challenge you on this if I may.

Do you have any beliefs about religion? Yes?

Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone shared your beliefs about religion?

Yes?

>>1077201

Jesus is God, and made the universe by speaking it into existence.

You're just a complicated echo.

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>>1077185
Because christianity is both false and unappealing to me.

>>1077193
>The guy who walked out of his grave three days later.

Except this didn't happen, which makes you kinda dumb for taking this shit so seriously.

>>1077214
While Christianity may seem false to you, due to your normalcy bias and rebellion against God, Jesus really is God and really did rise from the dead.

Which is of course Christianity.

And it really did happen. (And it does not require your consent to have happened.)

>>1077214
>Because christianity is both false and unappealing to me.
Are you Jewish? Do you live in the west?

>>1077206
>Do you have any beliefs about religion? Yes?
I believe that all religions are false.

>Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone shared your beliefs about religion?
Probably not. I mean a few little things might be better, but for the most part people would find different reasons for doing stupid shit.

Prostitution would still be illegal due to angry feminists for example.

Drugs would still be illegal due to paranoid fears about everyone deciding to become heroin addicts if we started rolling back the drug war.

We'd still have people trying to impose retarded gun control laws due to paranoid fears of statistical anomalies as well.

>>1077230

So, if you could convince everyone on earth that all religions are false, would the world be a better place for it?

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>>1077219
>While Christianity may seem false to you, due to your normalcy bias and rebellion against God, Jesus really is God and really did rise from the dead.
Yeah no, magic doesn't exist because a bunch of people says it does. You need a lot more then words to prove the existence of a deity in general let alone the massive aberration of everything we know about human biology that a person rising from the dead after three days would require.

>And it really did happen.
No it didn't and no amount of you insisting that the impossible is actually possible will make it have happened retroactively.

>(And it does not require your consent to have happened.)
This is both irrelevant and insipidly passive-aggressive.

>>1077229
>Are you Jewish?
No.

>Do you live in the west?
Yes, assuming the eastern atlantic US coastline is part of the west.

>>1077249
>Yes, assuming the eastern atlantic US coastline is part of the west.
And you said you weren't a jew.

>>1077233
>>So, if you could convince everyone on earth that all religions are false, would the world be a better place for it?
On the whole? Probably not. Ignoring that people probably just do what they like first and then come up with reasoning or justifications after the fact, we have serious conflicts over resources coming up over the next 50 years, so world peace isn't happening anytime soon.

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>>1077199
I am Christian and being part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church is God's blessing.

Remember Matthew 16:18, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. >>1076607

Mormons claim to be Christian, but are they really? Real Christians are Catholic and Orthodox, as for protestants, you are lost sheep. Come back to Catholicism; don't wait until you're on your deathbed.

The reformers were deceived.

http://www.protestanterrors.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd66KXIbAjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2Hyve-kwg

>>1077249

And history doesn't disappear when people 2000 years later say it didn't happen.

>>1077260
So how 'bout you keep that shit to yourself?

>>1077255
I'm not, I'm a bog standard american euromutt with a small amount of native american blood in me.

>>1077261
Catholics claim to be Christian, but are they really?

No Adam and Eve
No inerrant Bible
No imminent judgement day

>>1077261
>The reformers were deceived.

The reformers were Catholics.

>>1077267
Seeing how Catholics were the ones spreading the word of Christ...don't be a retard.
>>1077266
That still doesn't change that you're an atheist, an atheist is just a jew that worships materialism.

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>>1077264
Why the fuck should I? Especially on 4chan? I don't come here to see christard preaching, I can hear that shit on the radio or watch it on tv if I really want to.

I come here for fun, and I don't find religitardation fun, now tweaking the noses of stupid bible banging dipshits? That's always fun.

>>1077277
All I see are Catholics spreading the word about Catholicism.

>>1077282
And all I see is a faggot acting like he's in the know when he's being lead ass first.

>>1077280
I had you either way. You agree that you are proselytizing your personal religious beliefs, maybe you shut the fuck up about other people doing the same.

You admit your personal beliefs would make the world a worse place to live, maybe you shut the fuck up.

It was just a bare hook, son.

>>1077287
So gay. Tell me where the priest touched you.

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>>1077201
>Even if there was a creator deity of some sort this is not proof of yours or any other deity.
John chapter 1.

>who was executed for defying the roman authorities
So not only are you biblically illiterate but you are also completely clueless about history?

>What he wasn't was a deity of any sort.
That's where you're wrong, He actually was.

>Souls don't exist
You are spiritually empty. I feel sorry for you.

>>1077295
>said the homo that lets fags marry

>>1077277
>an atheist is just a jew that worships materialism.
No, that doesn't work actually. Judaism as a religion involves stuff like the torah and the talmud, Jewish ethnicity is traced from the mother and my mother wasn't jewish.

If you really want a word to smear me with heathen or unbeliever works.

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>this is what passes for discourse in /his/

>>1077296
Why feel sorry about people knowingly choosing to go to hell?

>>1077298
Not really an issue that involves me.

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>>1077291
Except you actually don't have anything, as I'm hardly trying to convert anyone to anything I just like telling christards to shut the fuck up. Also I never said my beliefs(really it's more of a lack of belief) would make the world a worse place either, I said they wouldn't make it any better.

Nice try, you faggot.

>>1077303
No, because an atheist works with the Jews. Ergo they are as bad as the Jews.
>>1077310
It is an issue.

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>>1077249
>magic doesn't exist
God's divine power isn't ''magic''.

>a person rising from the dead
The Son of Man was not just a ''person''.

>>1077314
>damage control

>>1077317
Not to God, it isn't. Nothing happens at gay weddings.

>>1077323
You allow gay marriages to happen in a Church. How can you support this?

>>1077296
>John chapter 1.
Bible quotes mean all of jack and shit to me and anyone else who wasn't raised in said faith.

>So not only are you biblically illiterate but you are also completely clueless about history?
Oh noes, I forgot to mention the jewish authorities wanted him dead and the romans went along with it to make them shut up about it for a while. Whoop de shit


>>That's where you're wrong, He actually was.
No he actually wasn't for the self same reason why I can say with reasonable certainty that santa claus is fictional.

>You are spiritually empty. I feel sorry for you.
I'm empty of something that doesn't actually exist? lol

>>1077328
I don't. Nor have I ever darkened the doorway of a church that did. Nor would I ever care about such nonsense.

Nothing happens during a gay wedding; nothing happens during gay sex.

>>1077332
Who presented Jesus to you as though He were Santa Claus?

Are you aware that Santa Claus actually was a real person?

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>>1077267
Yes!

http://whynotcatholicism.net/view/the-early-church-was-catholic

>>1077276
Satan was an angel too.

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>>1077295
Little daily reminder for you my proddy friend:

>Sue Widemark A Penn State historian, Philip Jenkins, has done in-depth research of pedophilia and sexual abuse among the clergy and has come up with some rather eye opening facts (Pedophiles and Priests, Anatomy of a Crisis, Oxford University Press, 1996, Paperback edition, 2001). It seems that while .2 to 1.7 percent of Catholic clergy have been guilty of pedophilia (or sexual abuse particularly of boys, p. 80-82), a whopping 10 percent of Protestant ministers have been found guilty of sexual misconduct with a 2 or 3 percent pedophilia rate (p. 50-52).

>This is all the more interesting, notes Jenkins, since there has been NO media term "Pastor Pedophilia" coined at all! Jenkins theorizes that the media, proving the 'point' of the 'necessity' of sexual promiscuity, overemphasizes any instance of pedophilia found among the Catholic clergy since it can use this to criticize the entire idea of celibacy. But it is interesting that the NON Celibate Protestant ministers have a MUCH GREATER problem with it than the celibate Catholic priests!

>Jenkins' research was based on several highly respected studies and statistics. He points out that whereas sexual misconduct has always been a problem, among Catholic and non-Catholic clergy as well as among the general populace, what is new now is that the 'problem' of priest sexual abuse, constructed by the media as a result of a 'moral panic' occurring in the mid-1980's.

http://www.catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/SexInProtestantChurches.pdf

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>>1077317
>>No, because an atheist works with the Jews. Ergo they are as bad as the Jews.
lol you really are a deluded dumbfuck.

>>1077319
>magic with a fancy name isn't magic
Gotta love this special pleading.

>if I give my imaginary friend a special name it means he's real!
lol

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>>1077319
Alright proselytizing Judeo-christian man, what if I worship Shiva and Kali instead of your kike god? Hinduism is the true religion, the miracles of Christendom are all shams.
>muh Bible
The Vedas predate the bible, what now faggot?

>>1077338
The myth of santa claus having a real person behind it doesn't make the myth real.

Same thing with jesus.

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>>1077332
>Bible quotes mean all of jack and shit to me
But they should, which is why you should read John chapter 1.

>>1077339
The early catholic church was catholic.

Nobody else was.

How do you not know Martin Luther was a Catholic friar again? Oh, that's right, the same way you don't know that the Vatican is the most evil institution on earth.

>>1077345

>We're not the only ones molesting children! Other evil people are too!

>>1077357

Your disbelief in either does not impact upon their existence.

It only reveals your ignorance.

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>>1077332
>>1077359
>I forgot to mention the jewish authorities wanted him dead
Yes and that is extremely important.

What happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD as predicted by Christ didn't happen for no reason.

>I'm empty of something that doesn't actually exist? lol
>>1076942

>>1077359
>>But they should
No actually, they shouldn't.

>>you should read John chapter 1.
I actually tried reading the bible once, it was a boring dry read and I went back to playing video games.

>>1077369
Do you think Mohammed was a real person?

>>1077370
>>What happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD as predicted by Christ didn't happen for no reason.

Whoop de shit again, anyone with a functioning brain could tell you that the jews were headed for trouble with the roman authorities, they were too fond of rebellion and sedition to not get into that sort of trouble.

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>>1077366
You are clueless and confused.

http://www.protestanterrors.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd66KXIbAjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2Hyve-kwg

>>1077372
I do. And I think the angel who whispered in his ear was a real angel.

>>1077385
Not trouble: "Not one stone shall set upon another".

The kind of carnage you see when molten gold runs down the cracks of stones, and looting soldiers get to keep whatever they can find.

>>1077369
I never said jesus didn't exist as a historical person though, and I never said that santa claus didn't have a man behind the myth either.

It's all the magic and supernatural claims shit that are nonsensical and stupid.

>>1077372
He was actually, it's just that he didn't get divine inspiration for his religion.

>>1077347
http://storage.cloversites.com/fcfgroups/documents/Why%20We%20Believe%207.pdf
http://www.nelsonprice.com/early-secular-writings-regarding-christ/

>>1077386
Martin Luther, Catholic friar.

It's just a fact.

>>1077388
Why then do you follow Christianity and not Islam?

>>1077394
Jesus rose from the dead; the most historically recorded event in the ancient world.

And it happened whether you believe it or not.

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>>1077348
Demonic.

>>1077399
Because the angel was Satan, not Jibrail.

>>1077391
Dude, that's precisely what tended to happen to people who rebelled against the romans a lot. They got their shit rekt.

>>1077406

"Not one stone shall set upon another."

Jesus, 32 AD

Fulfillment: 38 years later.

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>>1077400
No he did not, and no amount of you saying he did will make it happen retroactively. Also the supposed resurrection was only recorded by his followers.

>>1077411
Doesn't disprove anything I said chief. You challenge the Caesars, you get the pilum in your shield and the gladius in your kidneys.

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>>1077371
>I'm a self-admitted biblically illiterate underage manchild from /v/ who avatarfags with anime faces
Yikes

>>1077416
And what His followers went to their deaths insisting was recorded by His enemies.

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>>1077403
The gods I worship are wholesome and righteous. It says so right here in these scriptures! Vishu here is even holding a flower, would demons hold flowers?

>>1077419

It's okay. Maybe next time you'll understand "not one stone will set upon another" 38 years in advance is not "#rekt" at "some time in the future".

>>1077425
I see Baphomet.

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>>1077416
Not him but:
http://whynotcatholicism.net/view/did-jesus-rise-from-the-dead-the-known-facts-prove-it

>>1077388
He was actually visited by a false angel of light, it was a demon, a fallen angel of deception. Satan and his workers are great mimickers and Muhammad, deceived, established a demonic cult of Allah (false-God) called Islam (meaning voluntary submission to this false-God, i.e. Satan) which he spread by the sword convinced that it was the last revelation of God Almighty.

Islam is none other than Satan's magnum opus, which now has 1.6 billion adherents (23% of the world population) and which will probably be followed by half of the world population by 2050.

>For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

>>1077424
So what?

>>1077430
Oh really? He precisely predicted that the romans would attack jerusalem down to the time and place huh? Doubtful and even if such is recorded in the bible it is faaaaarrrr more likely to be something that was added in later then not.

>>1077438
Wow. Literally thrown in at the end "Um, the bible also says it happened."

Papists.

Yeah, no shit. I said as much above. And guess what? Your pope is uniting with the muslims. The two momma's boys religion united by demonic Marian apparitions.

Almost makes me wish I could see it happening.

>>1077438
They'll say the same about you.

Here's a tip, it's all bullshit. Satan doesn't exist, stop wasting your life.

>>1077444
Truth.

You: So what?

Truth.

You: Move goal posts.

>>1077448
Satan rents room in your head for free.

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>>1077397
I know, watch the videos.

>>1077388
>>1077438
Muhammad was Satan's pawn, merely a man, he was easily deceived.
Jesus is the Christ prophesied in scripture, born of God, undeceivable.

Islam's deceptions are endless:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas#Anachronisms

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>>1077432
That doesn't make sense, the Vedas greatly predate the first mention of Baphomet by centuries.

>Sequenti die aurora apparente, altis vocibus Baphometh invocaverunt; et nos Deum nostrum in cordibus nostris deprecantes, impetum facientes in eos, de muris civitatis omnes expulimus.
>1195 AD

>Rigvedas
>1500 BC

Vishnu came first, because he is real and good. The sick mind of deviant Christians created that goat character, which is entirely unrelated. What reason would I, a Hindu, have to worship Christ and not my older, esteemed gods?

>>1077438
>http://whynotcatholicism.net/view/did-jesus-rise-from-the-dead-the-known-facts-prove-it
>>But why should the apostles lie? What did they have to gain? They only gained trouble. They were arrested, beaten, persecuted, killed. No sane person suffers in such a manner for a lie.

The first problem is that this is wrong, sane people can come to believe lies are true and even die for them.

>>Were the apostles lunatics? Let's suppose the apostles were lunatics. In that case, why were they persecuted and killed? You don't execute a lunatic, you simply imprison him for public safety. But he is not really guilty of his crime because he doesn't know what he's doing. Therefore, if the apostles were mad it makes no sense that they were killed and persecuted. Therefore, the apostles were not lunatics.
Wrong again, plenty of mentally deficient persons have been executed for their crimes, even in the modern day.

Also all of this link assumes the gospel accounts are accurate when there is no reason to do so.

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>>1077450
More like
>>bullshit
lol

>>even more bullshit
lol you faggot

>>1077447
>Papists
>>1076585

>Your pope is uniting with the muslims
Because he's heretic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHVXurgxtR8

>>1077456
I see Baphomet more in this one. Man/Woman, hand up, hand down, human/animal. Probably the same demon, different culture.

Satan precedes human religions.

>>1077465
>>1076858

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>>1077471
Hindus don't see it this way and to an outside observer there is no reason to believe you over them.

>>1077471
It seems more plausible that the Semites created demons in their religion to slander Hinduism, the true faith.

>>1077483
Even assuming for a moment that this graph is accurate that does not in turn mean the gospels are accurate. Especially when they were written 40 years after the fact at the earliest.

I mean really anyone who understands just how our memories work would understand why a recounting of an even a year or two later let alone 40 years is hilariously unreliable.

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>>1077512
There are over 6,000 early manuscript copies or portions of the Greek New Testament in existence today. When we include the Latin Vulgate and other early versions, we have over 24,000 early copies or portions of the New Testament (twice that many when including quotes by early church fathers). Some of these date only twenty to thirty years from the original autographs.

Also see:
https://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

>>1077512
>they only talked about the events when came the time to write about them!
>hurr why has no one thought of writing a Bible when He was preaching?
durr

Why don't both Christian sects aknowledge that their are a poor man's Platonism, poor fags eating the remains from the table of the rich man (Plato).

>>1077535
>>There are over 6,000 early manuscript copies or portions of the Greek New Testament in existence today. When we include the Latin Vulgate and other early versions, we have over 24,000 early copies or portions of the New Testament (twice that many when including quotes by early church fathers). Some of these date only twenty to thirty years from the original autographs.


>>date only twenty to thirty years

>>I mean really anyone who understands just how our memories work would understand why a recounting of an event a year or two later let alone 40 years is hilariously unreliable.

You really don't get why this stuff is unreliable don't you?

>>1077465
I'd add that we don't know how the apostles died or in what circumstances.

>>1077545
>>1077535
>from the original autographs

>>1077471
The idea of Satan wasn't fully developed until quite late. In the OT he was an agent of God that tested humans but wasn't opposed to God

But we're expected to believe that centuries of religious post hoc reasoning and cultural syncretism somehow got it right

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>>1077539
This still doesn't matter dude, events that are only written about twenty years after the fact at the earliest! Are not consider reliable on their own. Especially not when we are talking about supposed religious miracles.

I mean for the longest time people thought troy didn't exist and it took archaeological evidence to the contrary to change the consensus on that issue. Even so, that just means a place named troy existed at one point, not that the homeric deities are real.

>>1077561
t. clueless

>>1077573
>>1077395

>>1077487
They know some of their 330,000,000 demon gods are demons.

>>1077496
It seems more plausible that demons exist worldwide.

>>1077512
It means if you do not believe in the sufficiency of the Word of God as handed down from the autographs, disbelieve everything prior to your birth.

>>1077542
Because both the Catholics and the Gnostics to whom you refer hate people like you.

>>1077578
(You)

>>1077561
Genesis: Devil is lying, stealing and murdering.

>>1077553
>from the original autographs
>which no longer exist and could say anything at all for all we know
See the problem here yet? We don't have access to the original sources anymore and thus we can't actually say anything about what the original sources said, all we have are copies of varying quality.

Also there is still the problem that there are few if any non-christian sources for any of this stuff. You have a mention of Josephus of Jesus who was the Christ that is of dubious quality and an older mention of jesus by the same historian that makes no mention of him being christ.

>>1077573
>Historians write about the past, the post.

>>1077601
>I have no idea what textual criticism is, the post.

>>1077598
>Devil in Genesis
Citation needed

>>1077608
Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Gee, I guess you're going to become a Christian now, huh.

>>1077610
That's Revelation, dipshit, not Genesis

>>1077611
kek

Yes, Revelation reveals things. This may come as a shock to you, but "Judges" is about judges, and "Psalms" contains psalms.

The post.

Genesis 3:1 [ The Temptation and Fall of Man ] Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

>Gee, I wonder who the serpent was?

>>1077581
>>One of the first secular writers that mentioned Christ. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Unfortunately, his writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, a Christian who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus’ account of an eclipse of the sun (Luke 23:44-45).
“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.”
Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.

Closet thing you have to a reliable non-christian source and no surviving copies of his work remain. I find that very peculiar for one simple reason, such writings would have been a very powerful tool for conversion, so much so that the church would have tried to preserve them.

That said, either way this irrelevant as no surviving copies of the work remain and thus cannot be examined nor can one determine their veracity.

>>1077619
>http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html

So whats all that about Jesus having white, wooly hair and pulling a sword out of his mouth?
>Christians in charge of reading their own scriptures

>>1077625
Wow. You just don't have a clue.

If God wanted to overwhelm your sovereign will with His presence, He would.

>>1077601
The relationship among the three synoptic gospels goes beyond mere similarity in viewpoint. The gospels often recount the same stories, usually in the same order, sometimes using the same words. Scholars note that the similarities between Mark, Matthew, and Luke are too great to be coincidental.

If the two-source hypothesis is correct, then the Q source would probably have been a written document. If Q was a shared oral tradition, it is unlikely that it could account for the nearly identical word-for-word similarities between Matthew and Luke when quoting Q material. Similarly, it is possible to deduce that Q was written in Greek. If the Gospels of Matthew and Luke were referring to a document that had been written in some other language (Aramaic for example), it is highly unlikely that two independent translations would have exactly the same wording.

The Q document must have been composed before Matthew and Luke. Some scholars even suggest that Q predated Mark. A date for the final Q document is often placed in the 40s or 50s of the first century, with some arguing its so-called sapiential layer (1Q, containing six wisdom speeches) was written as early as the 30s.

If Q existed it has since been lost. Some scholars believe it can be partially reconstructed by examining elements common to Matthew and Luke (but absent from Mark).

In The Four Gospels: A Study of Origins (1924), Burnett Hillman Streeter argued that a third hypothetical source, referred to as M, lies behind the material in Matthew that has no parallel in Mark or Luke. And some material present only in Luke might have come from an also unknown L source. This four-source hypothesis posits that there were at least four sources to the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke: the Gospel of Mark, and three lost sources: Q (40–70), M (30-50), and L.

>>1077631
The risen Christ caused His best friend to see Him and fall on the ground as though dead.

Ever see bronze on fire? That's Jesus. Ever seen white so white it hurts? That's Jesus. Ever seen fire come out of people's eyes? That's Jesus. Ever seen anyone who could command you to "Die!", and you would die?

That's Jesus.

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>>1077638
oh look, another non-argument. Nice try bible boy.

Also

>>If God wanted to overwhelm your sovereign will with His presence, He would.
If that is what your deity can do supposedly, why are you wasting your time here?

>>1077647
There is no Q. It was always hypothetical, and has never been found.

Different witnesses to the same events are obviously going to have overlap.

The four gospel writers had different reasons for writing, to different groups, to show Jesus in a different light.

Lion.
Ox.
Man.
God.

Four facets of Jesus.

King.
Suffering Servant.
Son of Man.
Son of God.

And they all harmonize perfectly; you can actually buy harmonized versions of all of the gospels.

>>1077648
Sounds familiar...
>Sanjaya said: O King, having said this; Lord Krishna, the great Lord of (the mystic power of) yoga, revealed His supreme majestic form to Arjuna. (11.09)

>(Arjuna saw the Universal Form of the Lord) with many mouths and eyes, and many visions of marvel, with numerous divine ornaments, and holding divine weapons. (11.10)

>Wearing divine garlands and apparel, anointed with celestial perfumes and ointments, full of all wonders, the limitless God with faces on all sides. (11.11)

>If the splendor of thousands of suns were to blaze forth all at once in the sky, even that would not resemble the splendor of that exalted being. (11.12)

>Arjuna saw the entire universe, divided in many ways, but standing as (all in) One (and One in all) in the body of Krishna, the God of gods. (11.13)

>Then Arjuna, filled with wonder and his hairs standing on end, bowed his head to the Lord and prayed with folded hands. (11.14)

http://www.thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_11.htm

>>1077655

Even your questions are ignorant.

If God wanted to overwhelm your sovereignty with His presence, He would.

And He will, when it is too late for you to be redeemed.

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>>1077601
>>1077647
Early Christianity relied on the Sacred Oral Tradition of what Jesus had said and done, as reported by his Apostles and Disciples. Apostles who had witnessed Jesus's teachings travelled around the Mediterranean basin, where they established churches and began oral traditions in various places, such as Jerusalem, Antioch, Caesarea, and Ephesus, all cities with sizable Jewish populations. When those who had heard Jesus' actual words began to die, Christians started recording the sayings in writing.

In the one-hundred-year period extending roughly from AD 50 to 150 a number of documents began to circulate among the churches. Also included were epistles, gospels, acts, apocalypses, homilies, and collections of teachings. While some of these documents were apostolic in origin, others drew upon the tradition the apostles and ministers of the word had utilized in their individual missions. Still others represented a summation of the teaching entrusted to a particular church center. Several of these writings sought to extend, interpret, and apply apostolic teaching to meet the needs of Christians in a given locality.

>>1077661
Jesus changed everything.

>>1077663
Nope. They relied upon the scriptures, old and new.

Jesus is all over the Old Testament.

>>1077658
>has never been found.
Because it's lost, like many ancient writings.

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>>1077664
Arjuna Pandu and his friend in the divine avatar Krishna lived 3000 years before Jesus, though.

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>>1077647
So what? All this says is that a given group of people started telling a given story after a given point in time. It doesn't make the story in question true nor does it address the fact that there are certain discrepancies in the biblical accounts of the crucifixion and other events too probably.

>>1077631
>hurrrrr what is symbolism? durrrrrr
cringe

>>1077667
>Jesus is all over the Old Testament.
And?

>>1077663
>>Sacred Oral Tradition

That's great for you and for those who believe this stuff, how you waste your time is your business. But when you come on 4chan and try to preach expect people like me to laugh in your face, as none of what you have here is proof a single thing other then people way back when being good at making things up.

>>1077686
>it's just a metaphor guise
>but the rest of the text is 100$ real and literally predictive of future events, not a doped up monk writing about Nero

>>1077700
Except his description is purely rich symbolism and every Christian knows this you dipshit.

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>>1077705
>>and every Christian knows this

lol no they don't, there wouldn't be so many of them running around proclaiming that the end is nigh if they did.

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>>1077705
So the Whore of Babylon and the seven-headed beast are symbolic, too? Is the fiery apocalypse symbolic? The water turning to blood? Satan being a literal serpent?

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>>1077697
>expect people like me to laugh in your face
That's great.

>I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you.
Proverbs 1:26

>But the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming.
Psalm 37:13

>For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fools; this also is vanity.
Ecclesiastes 7:6

>Dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ said before. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who laugh about God, following their own evil desires which are against God.” These are the people who divide you, people whose thoughts are only of this world, who do not have the Spirit. But dear friends, use your most holy faith to build yourselves up, praying in the Holy Spirit.
Jude 1:17-20

>>1077670
It's a hypothetical construct.

On top of that, it has never been found in reality.

There are therefore zero reasons to think it actually existed.

>>1077675
And the oldest source document from which you gleaned your information was how old, again?

>>1077592
Sorry this doesn't logically follow. Disbelief in one given set of absurd claims about the past does not by default mean you doubt all of history. I find it highly likely for example, that Julius Caesar led his armies into gaul and became a dictator of the republic later on. I do not believe his claims that he was descended from the goddess venus.

>>1077694

And therefore no "oral tradition" that people can manipulate any way they choose.

The bible has a written tradition, not an oral tradition. The oral traditions were written down. the ones that were not are gone/void

>>1077738
3000 years.

>>1077739
And I find it highly likely that Jesus' disciples all went to their gruesome deaths never recanting the truth that they knew; that Jesus really did rise from the dead.

>>1077743
Rigveda (padapatha) manuscript in Devanagari, early 19th century.

This is what I'm talking about. Not when it happened, how old the oldest copy is.

>>1077743
Rigveda was probably not written down until the Gupta period (4th to 6th centuries AD), by which time the Brahmi script had become widespread (the oldest surviving manuscripts date to the Late Middle Ages).The oral tradition still continued into recent times.

Jesus changed everything.

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>>1077729
Oh look, the bible quotes again.

See>>1076929

>>1077729
Can you please start using a fucking trip?

>>1077762
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Not sure why you're so proud to not even be at the starting line yet.

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>>1077709
>Then I turned to see who was talking to me, and when I turned I saw seven gold lamp stands. Among the lamp stands there was someone like the Son of Man. He was wearing a long robe with a gold sash around his chest. His head and his hair were white like wool, in fact, as white as snow. His eyes were like flames of fire, his feet were like glowing bronze refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of raging waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword. His face was like the sun when it shines with full force.

Revelation 1:12-16

This is symbolism you dumb weeb and it is obvious to anyone who's not mentally retarded.

>>1077718
>Whore of Babylon
Jerusalem
>beast
Rome

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>>1077744
Who says they didn't recant and the account of their recantation wasn't subsequently lost or never recorded in the first place? Furthermore who says most of the apostles were actually executed by the roman or jewish authorities other then assorted christian denominations?

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>>1077762
>Oh look, the bible quotes again.
Yes, from the Bible which is Holy.

>>1077765
>This is symbolism you dumb weeb and it is obvious to anyone who's not mentally retarded.

He's not arguing against that point, he's claiming that there are plenty of biblical literalists out there. Hell, we have one in this thread.

>>1077765
Rome is Babylon.
Roman Catholicism is Mystery Babylon.
The Vatican is the Whore of Babylon.
The pope is the False Prophet of Mystery Babylon.

Babylon stands in opposition to Jerusalem.

>>1077771
>Yes, from the Bible which is Holy.

Prove it without using the Bible.

>>1077770
It's possible. It's hugely unlikely.

fuck

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>>1077765
>>This is symbolism you dumb weeb and it is obvious to anyone who's not mentally retarded.

I guess most modern christians are mentally retarded then, as were most christians througout history seeing as how common apocalyptic panics were.

>>1077776

YOU ALMOST DID YOU FILTHY HEATHEN

>>1077783

>Other people were wrong about Armageddon.

>Therefore there will never be an Armageddon.

>>1077784
I did no such thing.

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>>1077776
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father’s uniquely existing Son, who is full of grace and truth.

>>1077774
Jerusalem 70 AD you idiot.

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>>1077779
>>It's hugely unlikely.
Oh really? You know this how exactly?

>>1077777

>>1077788

These gets are just too good for you.

>>1077790
>The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father’s uniquely existing Son, who is full of grace and truth.

Prove it without using the bible.

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>>1077787
If by armageddon you mean an end of the world there certainly will be one. A few billion years from now when the sun bakes our planet.

>>1077802
Oh no, they're just good enough for me. The truth deserves such gets, and the truth got such gets.

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>>1077803
Jesus Christ is the proof.

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>>1076674
The Sun, there was an epic post many months ago that explained this, I wish I had screencapped it, to paraphrase
The Sun:
>source of all atoms in your body
>source of all energy that makes life on earth possible
>reason for weather patterns and season that form natural rhythms
>can be comforting but also harsh
>apathetic toward worship, leaves your life to your own descisions
If anyone had the foresight to screencap it please post here.

>>1077792
Let me see if I understand you here.

"Jerusalem 70 AD you idiot" means that Armageddon is over, the Beast is defeated, the Antichrist and False Prophet were cast into hell, Jesus ruled and reigned for a thousand years, and we're now in eternity following the Great White Throne Judgment.

Does that encapsulate your eschatology, you mud filth amillennialist?

>>1077793
It's hugely unlikely that people were unable to admit to lies that rewarded them their freedom when they were murdered as martyrs.

>>1077809
Oh, so why don't you get him in front of a camera and get him to perform some tricks, or perhaps find some hard evidence of his mad magician skills. No? Don't have that? Shut the fuck up then.

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>>1077809
>a pile of dust underneath the former roman province of palestine is the proof.
That's...not actually proof of anything at all.

>>1077805
Sun's going out within 100 years.

It's the end, and you're not ready.

>>1077822
There is no pile of dust.

There was no body.

Jesus' enemies had to make up a cover story for why there was no body.

>>1077823
>Sun's going out within 100 years.

wat

>>1077815
Oh really? Even if they had come to genuinely believe those lies were the truth?

Furthermore who says most of the apostles were actually executed by the roman or jewish authorities other then assorted christian denominations?

>>1077830

Time to wake up.

>>1077833
Killed, without recanting, the lot of them.

For a lie they made up themselves?

Are you sure?

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>>1077828

Prove it without using the Bible, or religious tradition or fuck come up with actual surviving first hand accounts of the events in question, not copies made 20 30 or 40 years after the fact at the earliest.

You can't because such things do not exist.

>>1077813
Who destroyed the Whore of Babylon? Babylon did, which was pagan Rome. Babylon is a code name for Rome, which symbolized sexual and immoral excess. Revelation 17:16 says that the ten horns (symbolizing the rulers of pagan Rome) will destroy the whore by fire, which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And then Revelation 17:14 says that the Lamb will conquer them both. This happened in the 4th Century, when Constantine became the first Christian emperor of Rome, who stopped all of the religious persecutions of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. Constantine built the Vatican directly on top of the tomb of St. Peter, on Vatican Hill, outside the city of Rome.

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>>1077819
He did that already and it was His greatest trick.

His Resurrection. Here's the 3D photographic evidence.

*GASP*

>>1077819
>>1077857
BTFO

>>1077857
>>1077864
samefag

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>>1077836
It's a distinct possibility. It's also likely that none of them were killed, for heresy, blasphemey or whatever else, that they weren't allowed to recant and were simply killed for being troublemakers etc.

But the problem is that we have no reliable sources for what happened to the persons in question. We don't even know with any degree of certainty if the apostle mark for example, was the same guy who wrote the book of mark.

You have no reliable evidence for any of this shit and yet here you are, trying to argue it's veracity on one of the most cynical places on the internet. I dunno if all xtians are as dumb as you are but if they are I honestly pity you idiots.

>>1077866
On /his/ it's 15secs, not 1min you idiot.

>>1077857
The shroud? The hunk of cloth from the 13th century? GG, you lost.

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>>1077819
>>1077857

>>1077857
Oh look, the shroud of turin, a likely forgery. Real solid proof there skip.

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>>1077875
>13th century
The sample was cut from a corner of the Shroud which was part of a later repair, the dating contradicts other evidence, the sample may also have been contaminated by bacteria, smoke or reactive carbon and further evidence shows that the calculations were done incorrectly. You can verify all of my statements.

The three dating labs, according to a scientific protocol agreed upon in 1985, were supposed to cut several samples of the Shroud from different locations. Unfortunately, that is not what happened. Instead, the scientific adviser to the Arch Diocese of Turin, Luigi Gonnella, decided to violate the protocol and allowed only one sample to be cut from an outside corner where it had been handled hundreds of times over the centuries as it was held up for public viewing.

This flawed examination was actually discredited by Dr. Ray Rogers who published in the January, 2005 issue of Thermochimica Acta. Dr. Rogers stated, in part, ''The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud.''

New tests that have been carried out in the University of Padua's laboratories by professors from various Italian universities, led by Giulio Fanti, Italian professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua’s engineering faculty, have dated the fibres from the cloth to a period between 300BC to 400AD.

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>>1077875
>>1077881
>>1077886
The Shroud of Turin’s images are superficial and fully contained within a thin layer of starch fractions and saccharides that coats the outermost fibers of the Shroud. The color is a caramel-like substance, probably the product of an amino/carbonyl reaction. Where there is no image, the carbohydrate coating is clear. There is also a very faint image of the face on the reverse side of the Shroud of Turin which lines up with the image on the front of the cloth. There is no image content between the two superficial image layers indicating that nothing soaked through to form the image on the other side.

Until recently, it was widely believed that the images on the Shroud of Turin were produced by something which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the linen fibers. This is incorrect. The coating, whether imaged or clear, can be reduced with diimide or removed with adhesive leaving clear cellulose fiber.

The images as they appear on the Shroud of Turin are said to be negative because when photographed the resulting negative is a positive image.

The Turin Shroud was examined with visible and ultraviolet spectrometry, infrared spectrometry, x-ray fluorescence spectrometry, thermography, pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry, lasermicroprobe Raman analyses, and microchemical testing. No evidence for pigments (paint, dye or stains) or artist’s media was found anywhere on the Shroud of Turin.

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>>1077875
>>1077881
New experiments date the Shroud of Turin to the 1st century AD. They comprise three tests; two chemical and one mechanical. The chemical tests were done with Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) and Raman spectroscopy, examining the relationship between age and a spectral
property of ancient flax textiles. The mechanical test measured several micro-mechanical characteristics of flax fibers, such as tensile strength.

The results were compared to similar tests on samples of cloth from between 3250 BC and 2000 AD whose dates are accurately known. FTIR identifies chemical bonds in a molecule by producing an infrared absorption spectrum. The spectra produce a profile of the sample, a distinctive molecular fingerprint that can be used to identify its components. Raman Spectroscopy uses the light scattered off of a sample as opposed to the light absorbed by a sample. It is a very sensitive method of identifying specific chemicals.

The tests on fibers from the Shroud of Turin produced the following dates:

FTIR = 300 BC ± 400 years; Raman spectroscopy = 200 BC ± 500 years; and multi-parametric mechanical = 400 AD ± 400 years. All the dates have a 95% certainty.

The average of all three dates is 33 BC ± 250 years (the collective uncertainty is less than the individual test uncertainties). The average date is compatible with the historic date of Jesus’ death on the cross in 30 AD, and is far older than the medieval dates obtained with the flawed Carbon-14 sample in 1988. The range of uncertainty for each test is high because the number of sample cloths used for comparison was low; 8 for FTIR, 11 for Raman, and 12 for the mechanical test.

The scientists note that “future calibrations based on a greater number of samples and coupled with ad hoc cleaning procedures could significantly improve its accuracy, though it is not easy to find ancient samples adequate for the test.”

(1/2)

>>1077886
No, literally every hypothesis for that date being inaccurate has been debunked. GG, you lost.

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>>1077875
>>1077881
>>1077892
They used tiny fibers extracted from the Shroud by micro-analyst Giovanni Riggi di Numana, who gave them to Fanti. Riggi passed away in 2008, but he had been involved in the intensive scientific examination of the Shroud of Turin by the STURP group in 1978, and on April 21, 1988 was the man who cut from the Shroud the thin 7 x 1 cm sliver of linen that was used for carbon dating.

These tests were carried out in University of Padua laboratories by professors from various Italian universities, led by Giulio Fanti, Italian professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua’s engineering faculty. He co-authored reports of the findings in 1) a paper in the journal Vibrational Spectroscopy, July 2013, “Non-destructive dating of ancient flax textiles by means of vibrational spectroscopy” by Giulio Fanti, Pietro Baraldi, Roberto Basso, and Anna Tinti, Volume 67, pages 61-70; 2) a paper titled “A new cyclic-loads machine for the measurement of micro-mechanical properties of single flax fibers coming from the Turin Shroud” by Giulio Fanti and Pierandrea Malfi for the XXI AIMETA (Italian Association of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics) congress in 2013, and 3) the 2013 book “Il Mistero della Sindone” (The Mystery of the Shroud), written by Giulio Fanti and Saverio Gaeta in Italian.

(2/2)

http://www.newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

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>>1077896
This paradigm assumes that the radiocarbonists’ claim that the Shroud of Turin is a 14th century forgery is correct. It is based on what that conclusion tells us about the forger. It tells us that:

1. The forger first painted the bloodstains before he painted the image.

2. The forger integrated forensic qualities to his image that would only be known 20th century science.

3. The forger duplicated blood flow patterns in perfect forensic agreement to blood flow from the wrists at 65� from vertical to suggest the exact crucifixion position of the arms.

4. The forger "painted" the blood flows with genuine group AB blood that he had "spiked" with excessive amounts of bilirubin since the forger knew that severe concussive scourging with a Roman flagrum would cause erythrocyte hemolysis and jaundice.

5. The forger "plotted" the scourge marks on the body of the "man in the shroud" to be consistent under forensic examination with two scourgers of varying height.

6. The forger also duplicated abrasion and compression marks on the scourge wounds of the shoulders to suggest to 20th century forensic examiners that the "man in the shroud" had carried a heavy weight following the scourging.

7. The forger, against all convention of medieval artistry, painted the body he was "hoaxing" as Jesus of Nazareth, nude to conform to genuine Roman crucifixions.

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>>1077896
>>1077903
8. The forger, as the forensic genius he was, illustrated the nails of crucifixion accurately through the wrists rather than the hands as in all other conventional medieval representations. He also took into account that the thumbs of a crucified victim would rotate inward as a result of median nerve damage as the nails passed through the spaces of Destot.

9. The forger was clever enough to "salt" the linen with the pollens of plants indigenous only to the environs of Jerusalem in anticipation of 20th century palynological analysis.

10. The forger was an artist who surpassed the talents of all known artists to the present day, being able to "paint" an anatomically and photographically perfect human image in a photographic negative manner, centuries before photography, and be able to do so without being able to check his work, close up, as he progressed.

11. The forger was able to paint this image with some unknown medium using an unknown technique, 30-40 feet away in order to discern the shadowy image as he continued.

12. The forger was clever enough to depict an adult with an unplaited pony-tail, sidelocks and a beard style consistent with a Jewish male of the 1st century.

13. The forger thought of such minute details as incorporating dirt from the bare feet of the "man in the shroud" consistent with the calcium carbonate soil of the environs of Jerusalem.

14. This forger was such an expert in 20th century biochemistry, medicine, forensic pathology and anatomy, botany, photography and 3-D computer analysis that he has foiled all the efforts of modern science. His unknown and historically unduplicated artistic technique surpasses all great historical artists, making the pale efforts of DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Raphael and Botticelli appear as infantile scribblings.

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>>1077896
>>1077903
>>1077905
It is an irrefutable fact that there is NO paint or pigment on the Shroud of Turin leaving the only explanation of the technique of the forger to have used "photography" to manufacture the relic in the THIRTEENTH CENTURY!! Some authors have gone so far as to suggest exactly that. This is patently absurd!

CONCLUSION:

The Shroud of Turin is a genuine artifact of a first century Roman crucifixion of an adult Jewish male. The radiocarbon dating placing the manufacture of the linen in the 14th century was flawed by extrinsic C14 accumulated over centuries of fungal growth, candle smoke and the intense heat of the fire of 1532. There is NO paint on the linen of the shroud and is not the artifice of a forger.

>>1077900
>http://www.newgeology.us
>>A new geology theory featuring impact-powered rapid continental drift - an alternative to plate tectonics.
Oh yeah these guys are real trustworthy, oh and look.

www.sedimentology.fr Experiments show that many layers of sedimentary rock formed simultaneously, not one layer upon another

Shroud of Turin - evidence it is authentic What science has really discovered about the Shroud of Turin

Debunking Evolution Problems between the theory and reality

Carbon-dating dinosaur bones Thousands, not millions of years old

www.wheredoestheevidencelead.com Wonderful video introduction to Intelligent Design

The universe had a beginning Astrophysicist concludes there is no alternative

Age of the universe The biblical case for an Old universe - Young biosphere

crev.info Creation-Evolution Headlines - daily science news and commentary

Ether - the rest of the story The foundation of Relativity Theory - the Michelson-Morely experiment - was there really a "null result"?

www.commonsensescience.org/ A new physical theory of matter based on the Law of Cause and Effect

www.mantleplumes.org Center for discussion of the mantle plume controversy

Ahahah you got this shit from some creationist website.

How fucking desperate can your retarded ass get?

>>1077909
>It is an irrefutable fact that there is NO paint or pigment on the Shroud of Turin leaving the only explanation of the technique of the forger to have used "photography" to manufacture the relic in the THIRTEENTH CENTURY!! Some authors have gone so far as to suggest exactly that. This is patently absurd!

Actually, it's been conclusively proven that chemical residue from a dye or pigment has been found on the shroud. GG, guess what?

Also, stop typing like a 9/11 truther, have some decorum.