Now that GNOME is not even subtle in trying to deny user productivity

>>62246072
what exactly is wrong with gnome's approach? Modularity seems like a good idea, means if not everyone likes the current implementation (TopIcons), people can reimplement it however they wish without breaking everything else.

>>62246072
They're removing that shitty slide-out bar in the lower left corner. How is this a problem?

>>62246258
>>62246201
If they were going to remove it they should have their alternative to status icons.

Instead they chose to get rid of responsibilities and make (FORCE) users to use unofficial, 3rd party extensions that
- is not necessarily compatible with all GNOME versions
- slows down shell performance by a large degree

>>62246292
What's wrong with the icons in the upper right?

>>62246311
Nothing, but that extension is 3rd party, not reviewed by GNOME team. Anything/any malicious code can be embedded into the extension and no one would notice. Because you can install GNOME shell extensions without admin privilege

>>62246292
Why would extensions hurt shell performance?

>>62246354
External JS plugins communicate through GNOME Shell with JS-C or Gjs FFI

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>>62246072
gnome is a buggy and bloated piece of shit and it loves lennarts aids systemdick cancer cum deep up its ass, use i3 or sway (wayland)

>>62246362
Jesus, what a nightmare.

>>62246387
>use i3 or sway (wayland)
no

>>62246394
yes!

>>62246362
Do gnome plugins have to be written in JS?

>>62246416
Not necessarily. You can use C/C++/Vala as well

>>62246072
I like Cinnamon. Pretty resource heavy for a linux DE, but I still like it a lot.

>>62246428
Yes actually I was thinking of getting either budgie or cinnamon

>>62246427
So it's just a problem of this one extension (TopIcons) being badly written then? I still don't see the big problem with this whole debacle.

>>62246447
>I still don't see the big problem with this whole debacle.
Lack of security. Go and install any extension you like, no password is required

>in that same thread the gnome developer tells people to tell app developers to remove status icons and implement Gnome notifications
>the same shit they did to the transmission dev a while ago
They really lost all subtlety.

> GNOME
obligatory: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ (note the year as well)

> I knew this was on the cards but I have to say that I am surprised that it is actually being pursued in this form.
> Facilitating the unrestricted use of extensions and themes by end users seems contrary to the central tenets of the GNOME 3 design. We’ve fought long and hard to give GNOME 3 a consistent visual appearance, to make it synonymous with a single user experience and to ensure that that experience is of a consistently high quality. A general purpose extensions and themes distribution system seems to threaten much of that.

> > At the end of the day, people who use them know that they aren’t stock GNOME, and how to disable them if they want to get the default experience.
> The point is that it decreases our brand presence. That particular user might understand what it is that they are running, but the person who sees them using their machine or even sees their screenshots on the web will not. The question we have to ask ourselves is: how do we make sure that people recognise a GNOME install when they see one?

> So, one of the many very exciting things about GNOME Shell is that for the first time we may have ability to really shape the user experience and form an identity for the GNOME platform.

basically, gnome development is being driven by marketing and not usability or quality paradigms.

>>62246427
Can I use Rust?

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Gnome has been terrible for a long, long time.

>>62246457
So individual users on a multiuser machine can install their own extensions to customize their own instance of the DE. Where are the extensions installed to? If it's a subfolder in their home folder, I still don't see the problem.

If the extensions are being installed globally without pw, then I can see a security problem, but otherwise it's at most just users fucking themselves over if they install any random extension that hasn't been vetted.

>>62246457
what kind of privileges does gnome have?

>>62246491
Actually, GNOME is trying to move over to Rust from Vala in some of their projects. I think it's a smart move. If the long hyped GObject introspection module gets official support fromg GNOME/Gtk, Vala is gone forever.

They ported some of their libsvg (can't remmeber what library actually) to Rust.

>>62246526
gnome-session? It depends on your distro. Mostly user-level which is why you need user password to login

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>>62246072
>censoring your username on a screenshot of a public website
>greentexting on reddit

>>62246565
Where was I wrong?

xfce devs need to hurry up

>>62246525
Even so, user password should be asked

>>62246580
Not him, but I don't think you were wrong. You don't remove shit that you've already incorporated unless you have something better as a replacement.

Truth be told, his answer all by itself would have gotten me to jump ship. FOSS is inherently selfish, and I get that, but if you aren't going to offer what I want, I'm not going to use it. He made it clear that he has no interest in continuing to supply what you want, so, were I in your shoes I would go somewhere that does.

So the answer is the incorporate topIcons into Gnome before removing it.

>>62246072
Because all those retards just use a terminal and have no fucking idea how normal people use a GUI, especially considering their main guideline is "it's not Windows!!", and they pretty much make it a point to make everything the polar opposite of Windows, when Windows is pretty damn well fucking designed (up until Win7 obviously).

It's always the same fucking story, they break or remove critical stuff for pointless reasons and then tell you to venture into config files and install 3rd party software to fix it, because you can do it yourself, because "wow no one is paid to do that so you have no right to complain!!", as if they were paid to break everything and anything that works.

They're the reason why it isn't yet the year of the Linux desktop, because terminal aside, this shit is unusable.

>>62246660
yes

gnome is comfy, fuck you op. brainlet.

>>62246663
I think Linux Mint runs a pretty tight ship with Cinnamon.

>>62246639
My thoughts exactly.
I see it now, GNOME is going full retarded. I think I am going to switch to budgie. The main dev looks like he knows his shit and he listens to the community.

>>62246599
Isn't it dead now?

>>62246737
They are moving to gtk3 last time I heard

>>62246712
Well that's becasue Cinnamon is not Gnome. Cinnamon and KDE are the only two just werks desktops worth a shit. Xfce if you want to put in a bit of work.

>>62246791
True. Truth be told, since trying it out after Ubuntu, I have zero desire to try anything else out. I'll wait a day or two for updates.

>>62246832
The only reason I don't use Mint Cinnamon is that I currently use a cutting edge hardware and the drivers/kernels need to be recent

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>>62246840
I'm running 4.13 right now. No issue with drivers.

>>62246877
Is that kernel supported? I don't think so

this is why I don't use linux. You couldn't even do stuff from a DE if you wanted to.

>>62246917
No one cares.

>>62246905
Well, nothing is broken. Ukuu didn't want to install it, so I installed it via terminal, which is honestly the better way to do it, although a bit of a chore.

>>62246931
Good to see mint making it easy for normalfags.

>>62246928
exactly! thats why linux will always be less than 10% usage

>>62246944
It's not particularly difficult to do, nor is is even necessary. They have an update manager that works fine for normal people. Just because I'm willing to enter in 3 lines in terminal doesn't mean that I HAVE to.

>>62246072
Fuck gnome!
Don't get me wrong, 3.24 was the last good gnome. I switched to fill time win10 machine because of gnome bs coming up. I hope others will switch to.

>>62246944
https://fossbytes.com/install-linux-kernel-4-12-ubuntu-mint/

So hard. You can use ukuu to do it if you want, and terminal as a backup. Certainly better than:
>Something happened :(

>>62246515
Holy fucking shit, that is unbelievable

>>62246965
>>62246981
Well it definitely is easy actually

>>62246990
It is. Honestly, this is the first time ukuu didn't work for me, for whatever reason. It would complete with errors, but then wouldn't say it was installed, so it's not like I could do anything in terminal to rectify it.

So I just entered the wget commands in terminal. No biggie.

>>62246691
>t. Gnome Shill

>>62246966
>switch to windows 10 because one desktop environment in linux is going to shit
that's like switching to mac OS because fucking IE got updated and you don't like it.

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>>62246515

>lead dev of gnome doesn't know what xfce is

wow this is just embarrassing

>>62247158
After the Wii U, nothing surprises me regarding product development (in case you didn't catch it, nobody on the Wii U dev team had ever touched a PS3 or an Xbox, so when 3rd party devs were telling them what they wanted in the online store, talking about the other consoles, the entire team of console devs literally stared blankly at them, confused).

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>>62247180
What is this world we're living in

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There is no reason to use GNOME.
The devs are ignorant assholes and the workflow of a desktop is hilariously bad. Also these titlebars are too fucking big.

Plasma on KDE Neon works fine for me.
I don't have to rice it with a dozen of extensions to make it work and their infrastructure is a lot nicer than the one GNOME has:
- Dolphin is a god-tier file manager.
- Okular is the best pdf reader on GNU/Linux.
- Konsole is great and so is their system monitor (I even stopped using Htop).
- And so on...
The only thing that I miss is the ability to theme the hell out of my desktop because I don't really like all this Breeze/Breeze dark fuckery that much but that's the only way to have a consistent theming on Plasma.

>>62247245
No fucking clue, but as someone who owns that console (I have friends and family over once every couple of weeks for party games, and 200 bucks for a console isn't a major expense for me), it's very obvious that Nintendo had literally no clue what the fuck was going on in the industry when they made this thing.

>>62247272
is it stable yet

>>62247290
I guess it depends on the distro. I had a lot of issues with it on openPEPE Tumbleweed but on KDE Neon I am yet to encounter a problem.

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>>62246515

REEEEEEEEE!!!!

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>>62246476
>The point is that it decreases our brand presence.
OH NO! Not our brand presence! Anything but!
Think of the shareholders!

>>62246515
>you have to choose between DE's
the fuck is this shit

>>62247272
cuck needs over 3 GB swap because of his bloated piece of shit thats using 3x more RAM than my deeply loved XFCE :*<3

>>62247272
Is Konsole better than Gnome Terminal? Why?

>>62247272
Couldn't you make your own theme? Port some GTK themes or something?

Why is GNOME being developed towards the mobile experience when you can't run it on anything other than the desktop?

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>>62247410
Plasma is still a lot less RAM hungry than GNOME.
Xfce is still snappier, though. But it's just too obsolete and bare-bones for me and 300-400 megs of free RAM don't worth the hassle.
>>62247583
Integration into the file manager, custom icons on tabs, bookmarks, split views...you name it - Konsole has it. It works very bad with Powerline, though, which can be a deal breaker.
>>62247592
You can theme colors, window borders, icons and panel but the widget itself has only 3 default themes and only the Breeze and Windows 95 like one have GTK versions.

>>62246072
KDE and Xfce are best.
Cinnamon if you're on a touch screen.

>>62246072
>Gnome 6.0
>New Features:
>No mouse input: voice is the future, so now Gnome can hear what you want to do
>Test it!
gnome open tab search trap on female

>>62247780
Image source? How do I make Xfce look good?

>>62247939
you don't, it's a scam.

>>62247939
Arc

>>62246258
>main reason I hated GNOME is being removed

holy shit
Wayland is the future

>>62246201
Status icons is a must have for desktop bars, nothing to argue here gnome is just retarded like always.
They think that their market share is some kid using a tablet with gnome but in reallity those who use gnome are the remains from gnome 2.0 and those who switched from unity.
5 years ago you tell me witch DE to use and i would recommend you gnome but non...

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It's not too late anons, come join us in the light.

>>62247939
You install Zorin Lite or ChaletOS

>>62248201
>Krita
>GIMP

>kdenlive not being shit

>>62248201
bloated shit

I don't really get the whole idea that the status icons in the top bar ala Topicons take up space, i mean, doesn't the whole fucking top bar take up space in general? without status icons, the only purpose it serves is to show the time

>>62248428
They're not removing topicons. They're removing the shitty slide-out bar on the lower left that you can only see if a program uses it.

>>62248446
Thank god for that then.

>>62247272
>Baloo

Fuck off

>>62246201
>remove window list
>now you have to press super du get a shitty dock to access minimized windows
>to minimize windows, you have to right-click the window border because they removed the icon
>now they remove the tray icons so you can't keep track of notifications and status messages of said minimized windows
>"we're so progressive!"
come on ...

>>62248456
Problem is that topicons is an extension being maintained by 1 dude or some shit

>>62248470
Just disable it.

>>62248471
>Still stuck in 1995 computing paradigm
>Don't know how to use a keyboard

Go away.

>>62247284
they probably thought that a tablet style controller was the hot shit kek

>>62248483
Is like asking to the whinners complaining GNOME to install an extension.

>>62248514
>it's oldschool to minimize steps to get a basic task done in favour of adding steps that are not even excusable with some "muh, touch"-memery.
kys

>>62248543
>disabling a feature you don't like
>the same as adding a missing feature by installing third-party software

>>62248543
>remove basic functions and tell everybode to install an extention to restore said basic function because an empty black bar on top of the screen is the future
p o t t e r y

>>62248581
>Baloo
>A feature

Cancer is not a feature and should not be included in any DE.

>>62248602
It works perfectly fine for me and Baloo enables features like file tags.

>>62248595
>Basic function
>Used by no one

You are win 10 material, paajet

hey, i have a great suggestion for the dev team: how about they remove the window borders completely and if you want to move a window, you have to alt-click it? wouldn't that be fucking MODERN?!

>>62248623
>Baloo
>It works

Sure thing, pinnochio

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>>62248630
>status icons
>used by no one
You can't possibly be this retarded.

I'm so happy that GNOME developers literally ignore you retards and your dumb opinions. Stop using GNOME if you dislike it that deeply, it's clearly not for you, there are plenty of other DEs.

>>62248630
>every other DE does it
>GNOME think nobody wants it anymore
>everyone else is the problem but GNOME
nice meme.

>>62248668
i've been using GNOME since redhat 7.2 and i loved it. i really tried hard to just LIKE GNOME 3 but after weeks i could'nt even tolerate it and switched to XFCE.

I love how against people are of any sort of change whatsoever.

Install the extension called KDE and your desktop experience will improve

>>62248655
>>62248670

>He doesn't know when caps are active

Oh boy

>>62248709
?

>>62248699
it's not about "being against change" it's about botching a working DE for no other reason than "we want to look cool!"

>>62248709
¿que?

>>62248699
I like changes when it's an improvement, not when it's removing features and functionality.

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who do you guys think had the brilliant idea?

>>62248709
>>62248724

>Clueless

Go back to right now to reddit

>>62248697
Nothing wrong with that. Developers make something and you like it or you don't, they aren't forced to do the things you want and you aren't forced to use their software. The people always complaining about GNOME either use GNOME and don't like it, in which case they should stop using it or don't use GNOME and complain about anyway, which makes very little sense.

>>62248767
>The people always complaining about GNOME either use GNOME and don't like it
Or, you know, they like parts of it and bitch because the devs keep screwing up what was perfectly fine before.

>>62248706
A bloated extension that crash constantly, no thanks.

>>62248767
gnome used to be lighter than kde and since gtk was widley adopted there was a shitton of software you could use. they just throw that all over board with some questionable, forced design decitions and i really hope someone at redhat will put an end to this. or canonical.

>>62248474
It's open source, if people cared they'd review it.

>>62248795
It's lighter than Gnome

>>62248514
So... we all must use i3?

>>62248795
I see you're using a fixed release distro.

Let me guess, theyre removing this in a minor version revision? Just like when they changed how themes worked that broke some themes in a minor revision

God gnome devs are batshit. Breaking compatibility should be done in major revisions man.

>>62248811
Until baloo kicks in, until start consuming your entire CPU, until it crash. KDE is trash.

>>62248834
Baloo indexes all your files exactly once and you can disable it if you wish.

>>62246691
Good work goy

>>62248826
How trash KDE must be that even a distro created by KDE developers like Neon can't be stable at all.

>>62248844
And it sucks at it, and plasma shell crash constantly too, KDE is aternal alpha.

>>62248891
Meanwhile I've used KDE for almost a year, Baloo constantly running in the background without crashes now. Are you trying to use it on Debian or something?

>>62248789
Sure... let's use this thread as an example. If you already use topicons (like me and most people that care for status icons) you will not even notice anything changing, everything stays the same. This only affects people that don't use topicons and depend on GNOME's weird bottom left tray thing, GNOME doesn't like that implementation and they don't want to maintain it anymore, so they stop doing it. If you want status icons but didn't already have topicons, all you have to do is install it. If you loved GNOME's weird status icon implementation (let's be real it was shit and nobody liked it) and don't want to use topicons for some strange reason, well, I guess you are fucked and should just use another DE.

>>62248916
Nice try KDE developers, now return to reddit please

>>62248936
Nice try Gnome developer, now return to your bubble please.

>>62248950
Why are KDE users so insecure?

>>62248972
Why are Gnome users so insecure?

Install budgie

>>62248972
Decades of being number two. Not even when GNOME shit the bed did they gain any market share, people would rather fork GNOME than use KDE.

>>62247780
You can use Arc, Adwaita, Oxygen, Numix or QTCurve engine to theme both GTK and QT programs.

>>62248916
I've had weekly crashes on KDE Neon "stable", but mostly the desktop would just lag for a second and crash and reset itself instantly. But there were some crashes which removed window borders and menus, and I couldn't do shit and would have to reset my PC. Their crash reporter is shit and doesn't even generate "useful data" so you can report the crashes properly. So you'll have to wait for stability improvements for a long time which is something I don't want. I then just switched to Xfce and the only problem it had was screen tearing which is fixed in less than a minute. I didn't know the definition of stability until I used Xfce because the only DEs I've ever used were Unity and KDE.

>>62248999
It hasn't been number two for a while, I'd say 3 or 4.

>>62246491
I would like to chime in here.
The KDE project has already included their beta implementation Rust-Qt/QML FFI, see:
https://cgit.kde.org/scratch/vandenoever/rust_qt_binding_generator.git/

The dev has recently posted this
https://www.vandenoever.info/blog/2017/09/04/rust_qt_binding_generator.html

This way you can write C++/Qt or Qt Quick application without having to use that horrible nightmare called C++ anymore.

>>62246387
>i3
what are you a child
use dwm unless your absolutely retarded

>>62249117
Why is it better? Please explain senpai.

>>62249133
configs are made in header files and the wm is recompiled to apply changes
its generally faster and smoother than i3 i find

>>62249117
>dwm
what are you a child
use bspwm unless your absolutely retarded

>>62249026
>using a distros with an alpha DE
>compalins about crashes
Are you retarded? Neon is unstable. If you want stability use OpenSUSE Leap or Debian 9 which come with a stable, LTS KDE release
KDE Neon is beta software. That's how it's marketed.

>>62249160
>configs are made in header files and the wm is recompiled to apply changes
That sounds fucking retarded.

>>62246457
I'd just like to point out that this is no different than say, dropping a theme file downloaded from Gnome Look or GitHub in your home folder. Why are you crying about it now? If it were truly an issue, it would have been an issue from the beginning and it would also apply to all of the other DE's.

>>62249183
You are the retarded, KDE developers advertise Neon as stable distro, go check their web page, moron.

>>62246072
>poll results showed
You know who fills out polls? People who sit on facebook all day and know nothing technical. Polls are a horrible way to get information from an internet audience.

>kids using tablets don't use status icons
Wow what a great argument to base any kind of decision on. I guess this means gnome's primary audience is dumb kids on tablets.

I get so pissed off at this disease of the last few years in IT, where people most involved and knowledgeable in IT are the ones least respected in all sorts of IT decisions.

>>62249183
>KDE Neon is beta software. That's how it's marketed.


>download KDE NEON
>Featuring the latest officially released KDE software on a stable base. Ideal for everyday users.

???

>>62249218
You are free to voice your opinion directly to the dev responsible in reddit

>>62246072

why are you hiding your lebbit screenname when anybody can just google search it via the text in the image?

>>62249235
This

>>62249235
like that's gonna do anything. Like I have time to argue with airheads. Like they'd care.

I don't use gnome or even linux anyway. I'd use linux if it wasn't such a pile of crap that requires a fuckton of work to get and keep everything working compared to plug-n-play windows, but even then I gave up on gnome years ago anyway. Years ago it was already the worst looking and functionally most pants-on-head-retarded DE of the dozen I'd tried.

>>62249216
>>62249227
>Solid Core, Latest Features
>More than ever people expect a stable desktop with cutting-edge features, all in a package which is easy to use and ready to make their own.
>KDE neon is the intersection of these needs using a stable Ubuntu long-term release as its core, packaging the hottest software fresh from the KDE Community ovens. Compute knowing you have a solid foundation and enjoy the features you experience in the world's most customisable desktop.
>You should use KDE neon if you want the latest and greatest from the KDE community but the safety and stability of a Long Term Support release.
So you guys can't read. A "Stable base" means they're using Ubuntu LTS (a Stable release) as the base. "Latest KDE software" means it's using upstream KDE packages (not stable, as upstream packages never are.)
The only stable KDE release is the LTS one included in Debian 9 and OpenSUSE Leap. KDE Neon comes with a more recent version of KDE, ergo, it doesn't use a stable KDE release.
Just read the announcement post. It comes with the latest KDE, that's what they've been saying all the time.

>>62249432
They call it stable desktop, period.

>>62246072
What's wrong with mate (i.e. gnome 2)? Seriously.
[spoiler]I know some things about it that bother me, but I never heard anybody else complaining about them, so won't throw that in[/spoiler]

>>62249026
>I've had weekly crashes on KDE Neon
>KDE Neon
Found your problem. Try Arch.

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>>62247410
>provoking infighting between Xfce and KDE users
Fuck off, the KDE and Xfce userbases have been getting along nice for ages and we don't need baiting retards like you to fuck up the peace.

>>62249501
>Tried arch
>Qt updates
>Breaks KDE

It will never be stable.

>>62249081
Really interesting. Thanks.

>>62249495
>[spoiler]
Oh fuck I'm so embarassed

Try peppermint out

>GNOME, as well as Unity (RIP) and KDE are trying hard to create a brand identity and uniform look, even if it's against the user's wishes

So for companies like Apple or Microsoft I can understand their motivation.
But why are free software developers doing that? What's the point?

Are they trying to position themselves in a way that allows them to profit off their users (so there would be a point in trying to get a bigger market share)? Are they just used to it because they used to work for companies like Apple? Do they observe that popular players are doing it and think it's just more professional?

I guess in the case of Canonical the first is a reasonable assumption, but what about GNOME? Are they just retarded?

>>62246877
>lack of gap between the menu icon and text
>cant rename terminal tabs
>excess sidebar padding in the file manager

>>62248236

Ive never used video stuff, but I thought if you can actually get kdenlive working in the first place, it then is actually really good at what it does

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>>62250058
Branding is merely about recognition. Commercial companies use that obviously for making profit, because for your shit to sell you need people to know your shit exists. Secondly, the branding implies a certain quality standard.

For KDE, it's more about having a sense of identity. For one, the term no longer refers to the desktop itself, but is used as an umbrella term for all projects connected to KDE, be it the desktop applications, software libraries, dedicated distros like Neon, etc. So for KDE it's more about unifying underneath a common flag rather than making themselves known. It's about the community.

As for Gnome, I have no idea what they are trying to achieve. To me, it just feels like they're having a dickswinging contest over who has the biggest e-penis. Shit like >>62246515 certainly seems to confirm that.

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>>62246072
>Cinnamon?
After trying pretty much every distro over the past 4 years, I always come to Cinnamon. It's by far the most polished and sane DE available.

GNOME is absolute garbage. It's an aborted tablet/touch DE at this point.

Just run Cinnamon and be done with distro/DE hopping. It's a pointless waste of time.

>>62249117
>>62249161

>x11
>roxterm
>tmux

I bet you guys are useing like 100 mb too much ram

>>62249322
bsd guy?

>>62250377

>using a de/wm

I bet you guys need more than 64kb ram.

>>62250334
is there a way to remove the stupid fucking search box that comes up when you type without having anything selected in cinnamon

>>62250483
huh?

>>62246457
a user can already install anything without any other password than their own to log in initially
exceptions are if they require to be loaded by the kernel or communicate with hardware directly
i disagree with gnome's approach of leaving out useful features and saying that some basement dweller hacked together a similar feature anyway, but whatever the hell you are on about is absolutely no different than any other DE or even just a command line. Particularly since it's not really related to the DE in the first place, that's just how the system works.

>>62248201
>>62248236
>unironically using GNU/Linux for video/image editing,

>>62247272
I wish I could use KDE, but it makes me want to vomit whenever I go any deeper than a single screenshot like that

>>62247939
the thing is that it doesn't ever really look very good

>>62249185
it works pretty well, but it's a lot of work
not because editing the header is hard, but because having a WM that's essentially 2k lines of C really makes you want to make it exactly the way you want it

>>62249026
werks on my machines
>>62249183
Neon has a development, user and stable versions.
>OpenSUSE Leap or Debian 9
Stable branch (5.8) is actually more unstable than a current one. Also, openPEPE is a meme distro.

>>62250304
>Branding is merely about recognition. Commercial companies use that obviously for making profit, because for your shit to sell you need people to know your shit exists.
I know, that's what I'm saying.

>Secondly, the branding implies a certain quality standard.
I wanted to imply that with
>Are they just used to it because they used to work for companies like Apple?
>Do they observe that popular players are doing it and think it's just more professional?

>To me, it just feels like they're having a dickswinging contest over who has the biggest e-penis. Shit like >>62246515 certainly seems to confirm that.
In my eyes this just shows how serious they are about brand identity/recognition.
Though reading it, it becomes apparent that the developers don't have much in common with the political aspect of free software. Which is kind of odd considering they're part of the GNU project.

I mean Stallman obviously would say "it's free software so it's fine", but I'm not sure what to think of that.

>>62251013
>>62250304
On further thought, maybe
>branding implies a certain quality standard
is a goal the GNOME devs try to achieve with the reasoning
>free software must be more prevalent
>to get popular it must look professional
>>brand identity

Which reminds me of systemd in that
>free software must be more prevalent
>to get popular it needs more unified developmet and less forks/distros
>>systemd is good

Both of which I agree with in general: Linux development would benefit from being more focused and less distributed -- the question is just what you're willing to sacrifice for that.

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LXQT
X
Q
T

It will be like KDE but stable and with no bloat

>>62251267
feels like it was thrown together at the last minute just like LXDE

>>62250334
>default mint install
>open file manager
>sidebar padding puts fucking ellipses where theres a fuckload of space
>polished

What's a good, stable, smooth DE that has proper multi monitor support? I have 3 monitors with one rotated 90 degrees in portrait mode. I'm currently running GNOME3 but it's only usable through the combination of about 10 extensions that may or may not be supported in the future and I'm slightly worried that one day I'll be screwed since GNOME's devs are retarded morons.

I already tried KDE in the past on Tumbleweed but it'd crash every time you tried to change anything.

>>62246072
What a great thread guys. I always love an opportunity to throw shade on GNOME. I approve.

>>62251359
>butthurt retard got triggered
kek'd. stay mad, retard.

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>>62246737
>>62246755
>>62247780
>>62247939
Xfce has always been super comfy for me, pic related

>>62246201
they removed half the functionality from nautilus, like opening a terminal in the directory you are currently browsing, the tray icon thing is horrible and annoying, you can only make the DE usable by using extentions which there are a shit ton of because they threw away everything to pretend to be some sort of Mac ripoff while ultimately failing to accomplish it.

gnome 3 is garbage by default and only partially usable with extentions. there is no decent DE on linux. budgie is a inconsistent joke of a collection of thirdparty extenions for gnome 3, cinnamon is a huge fucking failure and a bugfest like the distro mint that is its home, xfce doesn't have even half the functionality than gnome 2, kde never was good to begin with and after 20 years they still don't manage to implement something that doesn't crash daily and unity was never relevant nor good,

linux desktop environments are fucking garbage, no matter how you look at it. they are either bloated in areas where its completely unnecessary, they are unusable because they are buggy or they are so minimal in functionality that you can already go for a shitty tilling window manager

>>62251762
forgot to add mate font rendering is still so bad it makes me want to stab my own eyes to avoid eye cancer.

>>62251418
>I already tried KDE in the past on Tumbleweed but it'd crash every time you tried to change anything.
>Tumbleweed
Found your problem.

>>62251869
that is not a tumbleweed issue, that is a general KDE issue. the only instance of finding a stable kde environment you will find, with an exception to knetwork manager which they still can not fix after over a decade, is suse enterprise desktop

>>62251267
>useful software and functions is bloat
Idiots like you are the reason GNOME exists.

>>62251418
Xfce? Works fine with 2 monitors so it should with 3.

>>62246755
GTK3 it's pure AIDS
The only reasonable choice nowadays it's Qt, there's a reason LXDE fused with Razor-qt abandoning GTK
LXQt it's the future for DE's, with KDE taking the crown for features, and twm's taking the crown for power users
XFCE it's the present, alongside MATE
>>62249495
GTK3 will turn MATE into shit, GTK4 will kill it
>>62251762
>Nautilus has less functionality than Windows Explorer nowadays
The future sure is bright

>>62246072
>reddit
die please

>>62251762
Why is Unity kill? Seemed enjoyable...

Cinnamon if you want something that works and won't drive you insane with its stupid design.

>>62246072
INSTALL XFCE

>>62247939

sudo apt-get install compton arc-theme
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:papirus/papirus
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install papirus-icon-theme

thank me later

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>>62252553
>cinnamon doesnt have stupid design

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>>62252553
>cinnamon doesnt have stupid design pt. 2

>>62252255
Why is GTK3 bad?

>>62246292
Good lad

I can't wait for the next Kubuntu LTS. 16.04 lacks features, so I'm using Xubuntu at the moment.

I have a feeling Kubuntu 18.04 LTS will be the best Linux distro ever released for general usage.

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>>62253059
Truly awful.

Not sure if mint are freetarded or I should wack together a portfolio and get myself a cosy design job at Apple.

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>>62246072
KDE was and is always the answer

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>>62246258
Because status icons are important and highly useful?
If they're gonna be an aqua clone, they should at least do it correctly. GNOME is just a pathetic imitation at this point

>>62253605
That looks like shit 2bh, also KDE is total trash and ugly as hell, all the apps have inconsistent padding and spacing and just look fucked up with no decent themes available.

>>62246072
Switched to KDE after gnome went astray. It's grate - don't hide anything from the user and it looks good.

>>62246840
So just use cinnamon on fedora or arch?

>>62253605
>KDE was and is always the answer

And the answer is bad taste, bload and unstabiliy.

You don't fool anyone anon, we all have tried KDE, and is shit.

>>62246072
>screen recorder is running
gnome already has a screen recorder built-in and it creates an icon on the top bar when it's running
>new mail
notification?
>new system update
notification?
>online or not
I guess this is a valid point

>>62253635
>That looks like shit 2bh
How so? QT is much more consistent that GTK, not to mention that KDE runs better than gnome, uses less ram and will add an hour or two of battery life on the same system.
There are plenty of themes that you can download right in the settings menu. I've never had one break with an update either, and I'm running this on fedora.
Meanwhile on gnome you have to hunt everything down and themes and addons regularly break on updates.

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>>62253605
>KDE

>>62253699
it's pretty nice in 2017 actually

>>62253772
>top bar when it's running
Why the fuck do I need to click or use a shortcut just to see an icon?
Again, even macos doesn't have this problem.
>>62253786
Doesn't happen on my machine, which is a fucking macbook air

>>62253786
I never had this problem desu
the osd did flicker when it was above a video that was currently playing though

>>62253812
>It work for me TM.

>>62253792
Is better GNOME.

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>>62253805
>Why the fuck do I need to click or use a shortcut just to see an icon?
the icon is in the top right corner, visible by default

>>62253780
Well to start out the font looks like crap and the desktop icons look like something off of the -tech pretend laptop I had when I was like 6 years old.

>How so? QT is much more consistent that GTK, not to mention that KDE runs better than gnome, uses less ram and will add an hour or two of battery life on the same system.
There are plenty of themes that you can download right in the settings menu. I've never had one break with an update either, and I'm running this on fedora.
Meanwhile on gnome you have to hunt everything down and themes and addons regularly break on updates.
GNOME and GTK are not nearly as bad as as bad as Qt/KDE but yeah it's still shitty and that is why I moved back to Windows on the desktop and bought a MBP for portable.

>>62253832
it just does

>>62253864
So why can't they just move status icons there like KDE and macos?
Why the fuck implement a retarded lower left bar that they took straight out of mac os9?
Are these people functionally retarded?

>>62253888
>Are these people functionally retarded?
Yes

>>62253874
>Well to start out the font looks like crap and the desktop icons look like something off of the -tech pretend laptop I had when I was like 6 years old.
You realize you can change those right?
You can not have any icons at all, it's a simple box tick in KDE, not a whole fucking extension that you need to get.
And you moved to windows because you didn't like how some programs looked, yet windows 10, with literally the most inconsistent UI in computing history appealed to you?
Fuck off

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>>62248999
>KDE
>being number two
heh you got that right

>>62253772
>gnome already has a screen recorder built-in
And like anything Gnome ist stripped of any useful features. Not an alternative to OBS.

>and it creates an icon on the top bar when it's running
Oh, so Like a status icon? Why won't they just fucking put all status icons in there?

>>62254766
kekked and checked

>>62246072
XFCE

>>62254787
>Oh, so Like a status icon? Why won't they just fucking put all status icons in there?
please make a bug report asking to remove the icon

>>62251762
>there is no decent DE on linux
There it is, its called XFCE, it can be somewhat plain and ugly, but it provides the best without even take too much ram

>>62246737
> XFCE dead

They accepted a patch from me last winter at least. Listening to user requests and accepting their patches is a sign of healthy development to me.

As a counterexample, long ago, I made a patch for GNOME project application, to enable something I liked, from a settings window toggle button. Defaulting to usual behavior. They rejected the patch as "expert functionality" and were rude about it.

I discarded GNOME then and there and have never looked back. I could have taken the rude. The idea that making a desktop have options for users is "expert functionality" I cannot take.

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>>62246072
Fuck 'desktop environments.'

Use Windowmaker.

>KDE
Proper file picker.
>GNOME
Complete garbage file picker

The choice is easy

>>62253226
GNOME decided that making GTK a moving target was the best way, Mammon any effort to develop using it deprecated and useless within months and without previous notice

How is gtk4 shaping up to be? I assume it'll be a retarded abomination

>>62251359
If that's the biggest complaint you have, you are digging pretty deep to find something you don't like.

>>62246515
Holy fucking shit. I really didn't want to use Ubuntu with a non-standard DE after they switch to gnome but now it looks like I'll have to

>>62247180
Please link me source I can't find it and I need to read this shit

>>62255283
They're completely gonna remove gtkStatusIcon in that one :^)

>>62255416
Not him, but I first heard this on did you know gaming. Regarding the Wii U.

>>62246737

You shut your whore mouth. XFCE is great.

>>62255283
QT is the future of linux.
The KDE application suite alone is better than even the included macos and windows equivalents.
There's no other art program on linux that rivals krita, no pdf reader better than okular, no file manager better than dolphin, no video editor as good as kdenlive (It's actually better than apple's final cut pro in most use cases), and the list just goes on.
GNOME and GTK have nothing to offer in respect and it'll catch up to them.
Those autistic german furries know what they're doing, especially with those cute mascots they've got

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I used xfce for 5 years or so, then decided to give gnome a try and I found I liked it quite a bit. After 2 years or so I gave xfce another try and I just couldn't get back into it. I use dwm now but still keep gnome installed if I ever want a full DE. I've never given kde a real try since I've heard it's quite heavy and I don't want to weigh down my laptop.

As long as your de/wm does what you need it to, then it's perfectly fine. If not, add the functionality or replace it

>>62255593
>I've never given kde a real try since I've heard it's quite heavy and I don't want to weigh down my laptop
KDE5 is lighter than Gnome by quite a margin. It may try to kill your CPU on first boot though as it indexes all files.

>>62255593
>quite heavy and I don't want to weigh down my laptop.
It's actually mind blowing how much better KDE runs on laptops compared to gnome.
Much better on battery too

>>62255617
>>62255773
Go away KDE shills, KDE is pure trash and we know it.

>>62255617
>>62255773
that's actually very interesting, I will have to check out kde

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>>62255847
I'm posting from macos right now, why the fuck would I shill for kde?
I'm just saying it like it is you ass hurt gnome loser

KDE is light.... if you disable/don't install Baloo, Akonadi, PIM etc. This is easy on Gentoo, luckily. USE="-semantic-desktop"
Some shit like kmail wants to pull in akonadi/PIM. Use alternatives (kmail is a piece of shit anyway)

>>62246944
>Good to see mint making it easy for normalfags.
Not as easy as Manjaro which despite me detesting it in every single way they do have a rather nice kernel manager to install and update kernels.

>>62247583
>Is Konsole better than Gnome Terminal? Why?
Font ligature support. Gnome terminal has had a bug open for this for sometime yet they can't be bothered to implement it since they'd essentially have to re-write the backend rendering which is presumably badly designed for some reason?

>>62256002
What's wrong with ukuu?

>>62256002
>install and update kernels
The fuck?
You either want the latest kernel or the latest lts, either way you just install them through your package manager like anything else.
The fuck is wrong with people these days?

>>62255428
>uding the smiley with a carat nose

>>62256041
That's the way I do it, the comment I was replying to was about normalfags though which presumably don't even know what a terminal is (so maybe they shouldn't even be installing other kernels, but what do I know?).

>>62256058
Pretty sure Mint's update manager has kernels, too. I don't think you get all the release candidates like ukuu, but it shouldn't be hard for anyone to figure out.

>>62256058
>presumably don't even know what a terminal is
Why the fuck would they even change their kernel then?
And why the fuck would you not want the latest anyway if you're on arch?
If you have an nvidia card on linux you're an idiot btw

>>62256108
>Why the fuck would they even change their kernel then?
No idea, probably because some "tech support" told them too online?
>And why the fuck would you not want the latest anyway if you're on arch?
No idea, I compile my own kernel.
>If you have an nvidia card on linux you're an idiot btw
I have an nvidia card in my desktop and yes I am an idiot. If I'd known how bad it would be I probably wouldn't have bought it and likely won't be buying another anytime soon unless Nvidia has a big change of attitude.

>>62256148
kek, enjoy being on an ancient lts kernel because nouvou or however the fuck you spell it sucks.
Meanwhile gallium is fantastic and has the performance of a proprietary driver while not limiting me kernelspace
thank u mama lisa

>>62246072
XFCE <3 use it OP!

>>62246072
reminder that gnome file manager can't even make new files

>>62249495
I'm thinking about going MATE once Ubuntu 18.04 hits... Please share whatever you know.

>>62256197
Nouveau works fine for me so I don't have to mess with the proprietary Nvidia shit unless I want to play any games.

>>62256361
>Having to change drivers every time you want to play a game
ouch

>>62246072
Nvidia refuses to support xwayland so no games under gnome 3

>>62256486
I thought xwayland was just a wrapper?
Or did you mean wayland as a whole?
If so, good for them. Wayland is shit

Why is it that macos can support the in-line controls on my headphones but neither gnome nor KDE do?

>>62255847
still at it? That's just sad.

>>62248201
>VLC
ok never touching KDE ever

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>>62255518
>QT is the future of linux.
Doesn't look like it, no.
>There's no other art program on linux that rivals krita
It's stil laughably bad compared to any other non-free alternative (but muh brush smoothing...). But any graphic work on Linux is a joke anyway.
>no pdf reader better than okular
Yep, Okular is very nice.
>no file manager better than dolphin
You mean no file manager more bloated than dolphin? It has some nice features, though.
>no video editor as good as kdenlive (It's actually better than apple's final cut pro in most use cases)
Is this a fucking bait? Kdenlive is nowhere near being as good as final cut or any other non-free editor for that matter.

>>62247272
>- Okular is the best pdf reader on GNU/Linux.
This is definitely true. It's what I miss the most whenever I'm on my mac at work.

>>62257874
I feel ya fellow macfag linux user
skim is almost as good
It's a little clunky, but you can also try tunneling an xserver from a vm.
just install a debian or fedora vm on your mac, get the internal ip and in iterm or something type in
>ssh -X fag@ip okular
It's how I access my luks encrypted drive on my macbook air

>>62258054
Yeah, skim will get the job done, but it's just not as slick as Okular.

>>62246072
>tfw on Debian testing with XFCE
>bored and wanting to install Gnome again
>1 critical and 3 serious vulnerabilities listed
>ok let's install KDE
>3 serious vulnerabilities

wtf what's going on?

>>62246515
Redhat disease spreads easily.

gnome is insane garbage, what else is new

did you think lightweight DEs were just a ricer meme?

>>62256486
Nvidia has egl streams and it does work with wayland. Now, I'm not sure how buggy it may or may not be since I haven't tested it much

>>62248471
But anon, you can add a windows bar by enabling it in with the extension

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>>62253059
>>62253077
>>62253534
holy shit, you're like the most autistic and mentally ill anon I've met on /g/ in quite some time.
other DEs don't work, break, shit is difficult/convoluted to use yet you concentrated on a bunch of pixels in a file manager that you can replace with anything you like.
truly one of the most autisitc and mentally ill things I've come across.
please use a trip/username so I can see the rest of your posts and track how batshit insane you are.

>>62249432
There is an LTS KDE neon users edition using KDE LTS desktop

>>62255370
Every desktop I try is a buggy piece of shit. I crash everything I try to use within minutes besides XFCE and Gnome. And Gnome is an ugly abomination I refuse to use. If you don't find huge amounts of bugs in every DE it's because you are a brainlet who doesn't even open settings menus or use any programs besides what comes in a default install which may conflict with your DE's programs.

>>62246072
gnome, mozilla and others have paid the price for being diverse and sjw friendly.

>>62246072
XFCE.
I actually like openbox with the xfce bar or equivalent.

>>62247272
I only miss gnome disks, there is anyway to automount luks partitions on KDE?

Gnome/Wayland is comfy af

>>62256486
nvidia has working wayland

also just because they arent officially supporting xwayland doesnt mean it wont work since its literally a Xorg core wrapper

this also doesnt stop the community making a nouveau esk xwayland

meanwhile AMD supports all of the wayland compositors officially and works with the community for open GPU drivers

>>62246515
Many gnome "devs" use osx, so they don't really care about it either.

>>62260597
>wayland
Call me back in 10 years once Wayland brainlets have got the color dropper tool working in gimp

>>62248201
True.

>>62260754
That's a gimp problem

>>62260785
Werks on X

>>62246394
>>62249117
>>62246072
Nothing wrong with i3wm.

>>62260754
>calling someone brainlet
>expects wayland the protocol to properly implement a feature in the GIMP project

Hmmm.

>>62260806
>expects wayland to properly implement xwayland
ftfy

Kde has best apps, can launch them from any de w x installed

>>62260815
It's a gimp issue.

"wayland" Is a protocol, you mean Gnome/Sway/Weston.

Gimp is probably having issues because Xwayland is designed to run as a unprivileged user by default to provide security.

>>62260855
>It's a gimp issue.
Just like how GNOME removing status bar icons, a fundamental feature in every operating system, is Transmission's problem.

>>62260793
That's still a gimp problem

>>62260742
source?

>>62253077
You found the worst thing about Cinnamon. Now take a look at all the nice applets and extensions which are installed with 2 clicks that GNOME will never have :^)

>>62260052
>disabling animations doesnt actually disable them all (expo)
>values are hardcoded in js somewhere in fucking /usr
>editing it to 0 causes crashes

>>62260965
>using the smiley with a carat nose

>>62261412
pls use a trip. I wanna follow your descent into madness.

KDE > Budgie > Cinnamon > Xfce > LXQT > LXDE > Unity > enlightenment >>>>>>>>>>>> GNOME
Never used deepin

>>62246072
>what is notifications

>>62262532
t. Gnome dev

>>62261429
ass burned red hat shill detected