/dpt/ - Daily Programming Thread

rewriting linux kernel in C

Trying to use windows.h to create a gui.

kill me.

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second for programming is hard

>>62203542
I used to write some small GUI utilities in Win32AP using MASM32 15 years ago, it wasn't that hard IIRC, just tedious.

>>62203475
Linux is already in C...

>calls himself a programmer
>has more facebook friends than github followers

>>62203462
>anime thread
thanks

>>62203462
The quality of that image fucking infuriates me every time.

>>62203610
>calls himself a programmer
>has facebook

>>62203462
I'm writing a file manager in racket.

>>62203542
I create all my GUIs that way
it's great, what seems to be the problem?

Hey, /g/, tell me what you hate the most about my toy language:
https://github.com/kmltml/oxidation/blob/master/examples/sdl/snake.ox

Haskell!

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If I wrote a book on combining functional programming with object oriented programming to get the best of both worlds, should I call it FOOP or POOF?

>>62204687
OFOP

>>62204687
>best of both worlds
impossible.
FP and OOP are incompatible. What you are imagining is just OOP, or what I've taken to calling it, OOP plus functions.

>>62204687
killyourselFOOP

>>62204676
>=>
What does it do?

>>62204724
>or what I've taken to calling it, OOP plus functions.
kek

>>62204724
>FP and OOP are incompatible
wrong.

>>62204676
>Hey, /g/, tell me what you hate the most about my toy language:
how about you first say a few words about it
i am interested it looks really cool

>>62204747
It separates case pattern from body (like in scala and rust)

>>62203462
Recently I've really wanted to make an A.I. that would learn to play some simple games.
So just doing research on ai programming for now.

>>62204781
It's pretty much rust but without all that safety bullshit. It doesn't really have any innovative features, it just turned out, that making a compiler is fun as fuck and i have enough features i want to implement that i won't be bored for a year or so.

>>62204767
he's right, you know

>>62204837
what exactly do you compile to, what intermediate language do you use
i dont quite understand what's going on

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I'm going to kill myself now thanks

>>62204861
I'm outputting asm files (real men don't use llvm). I habe my own intermediate representation language, which i generate from ast, do some passes on it and then convert to assembly. Then i just invoke nasm to assemble it and gcc to link an executable for me (i couldn't get microsoft's link or mingw's ld to work).

>>62204899
Use butterknife.

>>62204907
>I'm outputting asm files (real men don't use llvm)
nice
i did the same (code related), but mine is so much shittier and doesn't even have pointers, uses the stack too much and the assembly is slow, realistically speaking
admittedly i did it in two weeks, but still
how can i become as good as you
also, how long have you been progging
about 2 years for me

i want to maybe start over at one point and make it a usable language with pointers

do you do any sort of advanced register optimizations and 'planning' if you know what i mean or just do what's easiest to code? how does your lang compare to rust in terms of speed

really good job bro, it looks absolutely beautiful

@(function main () ()
(print_num (fibs_iter 10)))


@(function fibs (n) () 
(if (< n 2) 
    n 
    (+ (fibs (- n 1)) (fibs (- n 2)))))

@(function and (arg1 arg2) () (if arg1 (if arg2 1 0) 0))

@(function fibs_iter (n) (i a b tmp)
    (= i 0)
    (= a 0)
    (= b 1)
    (while (< i n)
        (begin
            (print_num a)
            (= tmp a)
            (= a b)
            (= b (+ b tmp))
            (= i (+ 1 i))))
    a)

also i like the name, it's rust-like, so oxidation

>>62204927
Isn't suicidal encouragement illegal?

>>62205025
>and make it a usable language with pointers
So, Golang?

first for Java

>>62203475
Make it a microkernel.

How does Rust do arrays?

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When building a c# dll, is there any way to make the compiler work harder at optimizing the output, in exchange for longer compile times?
Just curious.

>>62204852
no, oop is a data abstraction technique where the data is hidden behind a procedural interface. nothing prevent you to make that procedural interface functional. you guys know nothing about PLT.

>>62205177

object.just_mutate_my_state_up()

is not and will never be functional

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>reddit is no longer open-source

https://www.reddit.com/r/changelog/comments/6xfyfg/an_update_on_the_state_of_the_redditreddit_and/

>>62205025
I stole a register allocation algorithm from some paper (it's called iterated register coalescing) but it's slow as fuck (most of the compilation time is taken by register allocator). I've been programming for quite a while now. Theoretically i started in primary school, though i obviously didn't make anything impressive then, so i guess i've been actually programming for about 7 years by now.
I didn't really try to benchmark it yet, and i don't do any optimisations yet so i bet it compares quite poorly to rust, but it shouldn't be terribly slow.

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It took me all day, but I solved my issue with memory corruption causing seg faults.

It was because I passed a pointer to a local variable........

>>62205206
python's integer type is an example of functional objects.

>>62205206
>not [spoiler]new[/spoiler]ing on every mutator
dumb fpposter

This is a C question:
So I have a function pointer type defined as void (func)(void *x);

My function is void myfunc(int y);

Can I safely do func m = myfunc; m(5);
Or is it undefined?

>>62205288
You're doing it wrong. You want to take an address with &.

Probably, anyway.

>>62205288
undefined

>>62205321
Yes my bad.
myfunc(int* x)

>>62205156

https://rustbyexample.com/primitives/array.html

Basically they're contiguous blocks of memory, typically on the stack, just like in C. If you want to pass them around, you use what's called a slice, which is just a struct containing a pointer and a length field.

If you index a slice or array out of bounds, the program panics, but this is only during debug mode. When you build in release, there's no bounds checking.

>>62205206

No part of object oriented methodology prevents immutability of objects. C++ can even be explicit about it by letting methods be declared const, making it a compile time error for any part of that method to mutate the object it is called on.

>>62205225

They had to go closed source, so that they could hide their code designed to promote left-wing content and hide right-wing content.

>>62205367
Rust syntax seems a bit bloated and heavyweight but this is exactly how I'd expect a sane lang to do arrays, thanks.

im going to apply to some entry level database jobs in the coming weeks, but i cant figure out what kind of projects i can do with SQL for my portfolio? the job descriptions all list SQL, SSRS, MOSS

anyone have any recommendations?

im a CS grad that went the front-end route so my portfolio is full of javascript and php apps lol

Why do programmers bully webdevs? Is it because they make mad money?

>>62205225
why isn't 4chan opensource?

>>62205565
because they are bringing theirs bad practices to the desktop.
https://josephg.com/blog/electron-is-flash-for-the-desktop/

>>62205565
because webdev typically includes full-stack, front-end, and "designers"

front-end and designers arent real programmers. they're just professional copy and pasters. full-stack gets more programmy but they still rely too heavily on frameworks and libraries to do their work for them.

there are a shit ton of front-end people who use stuff like vue, react, node, etc. at work but dont actually have much experience programming in pure js. its absurd. if you can learn your profession in a matter of 5 hours from youtube videos, your job security is not good.

>>62205498
use SQL to make a rule system
basically you'll have your database entries, each one will have it's properties
then you'll make rules
like for example if you have a database of pornstars a rule could be

rule skinny
find height>175 and weight < 52

or something like that, i don't remember the SQL syntax right now
dont use pornstars though

>>62203462
im making a app for smart phones that allows people to procrastinate as efficiently as possible. you tap a button on screen that says procrastinate and it makes a sound like you did something but nothing happens

its going to revolutionize how people waste time at work and schools. i have angel funding already and it should be out sometime late next year. beta testing is proving to be time consuming

>>62205677
come on dude im 174

>>62205722
nice work, you app barista
I assume you are using react native for your thing?

>>62205565
Because webdevs were web designers a couple years ago, so they weren't considered programmers.
Now they call themselves programmers, they call FizzBuzz OMG MATH. It's them who spread rumours like programmers don't need to know math to be programmers.

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Currently reading Design Patterns,

When they say Interfaces, they mean abstract classes right?

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Employed Haskell programmer reporting back

>>62205854
interfaces are (sorta like) abstract classes without any implemented methods

>>62205854
What kind of a background are you coming from?

>>62205473

Rust, C++, and Ada are all rather verbose languages, but that verbosity usually has a purpose. When you write code in a systems programming language, it helps to be explicit about everything you do, so that it's harder to fuck everything up. You want to write fast code, but you also want to write code that does exactly what you intend with no derivations that could be caused by human error. It is always better to catch fuckups at compile time than at runtime in production when someone's life may be on the line.

>>62205966
Not familiar with Ada, but I fully understand your point. Weak typing is one of C's worst aspects IMO.

>>62205876
what do you do more specifically

>>62205745
Not a web developer (at least not exclusively) but I'm not that great at math either. Any recommendations for resources that might help me improve (specifically in regards to programming but I guess general stuff is okay too)?

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>>62205896
ahh ok

>>62205943
Read Programming Principles and Practice using C++ around 2 years ago, spent the time in-between programming in Qt and Unreal

wanted to learn more about designing software architecture

>>62205991

Ada is anal-retentive, but trustworthy enough to run in airplanes and nuclear power plants.

>>62206017
So you're a C++ guy, makes sense.

Most OOP languages don't have multiple inheritance of classes. So they have the concept of an interface instead. An interface contains nothing but pure virtual functions. You can inherit from multiple interfaces. It's safer that way.

>m-muh print function
>m-muh interators
>fork the fucking language
>community is split

why are pythonistas so retarded?

>>62206119
You meant pytards?

>>62206119
I found this pearl in the Python standard library yesterday, apparently the zip library doesn't compress archives by default, it makes sense I suppose if you wanted to just archive files/folders in a zip but when do you not want to compress shit, apart from lossy objects.

Is tbere some chart of FOSS licenses?

>>62205498

>anyone have any recommendations?

Hell yes.

-Read "SQL antipatterns", it a really great book.

-Make a simple app and query the shit of of it.

-Learn about the pitfalls. SQL basic syntax is simple, but there are some nasty things (i.e. "NOT IT").

-Data structures. You should be able to set off a simple database with a few different values and their correct data type (date, number types, varchar, BLOB) without looking.

-Never forget that SQL is TENARY LOGIC. Learn how true/false/null are related to each other (logic table).

-Indexes (no, it's not called "indices"..). Many people don't bother with them, but it's so important to understand how and when to use an index.

-You should be able to explain the normal forms up until Boyce-Codd. Make up examples in your head. But also: learn some basics about denormalisation! When to use it? What are the advantages?

-Performance optimization is always good, but a big topic. If you how how to use properly use indexes you already know a lot. But if you are a real hotshot, get some basics about optimization.

-Backups/MetaData: Advanced topics. You are probably not supposed to know this, but you should know that these topics exist, if only to know what you NOT know.

-Stored procedures, triggers and PL/SQL: If they ask you about those.. run.

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>>62203462
I-is this true, anons

>>62206302
>he doesn't know tail call optimisation
>he spreads literal facebook memes

>>62206302
Not if you use tail recursion optimization.

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>>62203580
>15 years ago
Jesus anon, I thought this board was for young people

Programming languages are so shitty that I'm currently evaluation the viability of non-java JVM languages as scripting languages, as well as other non-java JVM languages for desktop applications.
Fucking save me!

>>62206330
>>62206332
>writing code explicitly more complicated than it need to be in hope that the compiler might be able to optimize it
L O L

>>62206339
how old are you?

>>62206357
t. literal retard
kek

>>62206237
https://choosealicense.com/
https://tldrlegal.com/

>>62206365
22

>>62206376
thanks

>>62206302

Under certain circumstances recursion is a bad choice. But unless you are crazy shit in some special field like matrices or graphics, you'll be fine..


>>62206352

The greatest scripting language ever is Ruby.
The greatest JVM language is Clojure (you can also use SWING here, if you want some desktop things).

You're welcome.

Why Lisp is called sometimes to be non-true functional language?

>>62206352

Maybe you should take a look at non-C# .NET languages while you're at it. Actually don't. C# is okay; it's VB that sucks.

OOP seems like it'd be good to create different processes and communicate to each other. does it have facilities to do that easier than in C?

>>62205594

>It turns out modern operating systems already have nice, fast UI libraries. So use them you clod!
>Also all you web devs: Go learn C or Rust or something. Your program runs on a computer. Until you know how that computer works, you're doomed. And until then get off my lawn shakes fist.

I like this guy. And maybe we should be converting all of those JS programmers to Rust programmers. At least then we'll have faster programs (even if they use a bunch of crappy micro-libs)

>>62206530
What do you mean?

>>62206244
thanks anon, i didnt expect such a detailed response.

the places im applying to are mostly healthcare related, and their requirements are exceptionally dry aside from just saying they'd like me to know about the stuff i listed (sql, ssrs, moss are all listed) and wanting someone with a degree.

Is there ANY reason why people would choose a license other than Unlicense?

This is free and unencumbered software released into the public domain.

Anyone is free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or
distribute this software, either in source code form or as a compiled
binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
means.

In jurisdictions that recognize copyright laws, the author or authors
of this software dedicate any and all copyright interest in the
software to the public domain. We make this dedication for the benefit
of the public at large and to the detriment of our heirs and
successors. We intend this dedication to be an overt act of
relinquishment in perpetuity of all present and future rights to this
software under copyright law.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR
OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,
ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR
OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

For more information, please refer to <https://unlicense.org>

Look at it. It's perfect.

>>62206530
Communicating with processes doesn't mandate you use a certain language. You just use some form of IPC or a socket.

>>62206543
if you have multiple processes running in memory that need to communicate to each other, in C the only way i could think of doing that would be to have it constantly loop and check if it's gotten any new messages. but languages like java emphasize communication between objects. what's the point of that communication if they're all in the same process?

>>62206577
For stuff I don't care about I prefer the CC0 because in some countries "public domain" doesn't exist. The CC0 license tries to address this and guarantee the recipients of your software as much freedom as possible while still complying with local copyright law.

>>62205583
Because the NSA doesn't want to

>>62206633
Yet they open source SELinux...

>>62206357
Not if you use a functional programming language. Plus most imperative languages nowadays don't use TCO because it doesn't provide as good error messages for stack traces and often times it is better to just use a for loop or a while loop. Java, Go, Rust and Python are languages off the top of my head that don't use TCO.

>>62206471

Lisp is pretty "functional" when it comes to how "functions" are treated in Lisp.

But generally "functional languages" also use immutable data. This is sometimes inconvenient and many languages try to ease the painpoints with opt-in mutable data. Lisp doesn't really care about the "functional paradigm" too much. But even Scheme (which is more "functional" than CL, for example) allows you to cheat in many ways.

Please note that this would not be considered good coding style - but it's doable:

(define x '(1 2 3 4))

(define (muh-sideeffects)
  (set! x "oh shiiieet nigga, what are you doing!"))

(display x)
(newline)

(muh-sideeffects)
(display x)

>>62206671
>Doesn't support TCO
All of those languages are horrible memes.

>>62206603
Java spews out concurrency errors if you do that, tried making a small game engine in javafx a while back and its fucking cancer, you have to use prebuilt classes for processing graphics on a separate thread then drawing it to window, even if one thread is essentially read only

>>62206690
oop is so full of lies. it doesn't even do anything it says it does. i just want C with namespaces

>>62206677
Thanks

>>62206707
Its not that oop is full of lies, its that Java is too asspained about errors like some sort of controlling girlfriend
Oop is full of lies, but java is especially bad here

>>62206707
>with namespaces
Namespaces are fundamentally useless. Why the fuck do you even need them?

>>62203610
>Cares about social media features
wew lad

>>62206690
>concurrency errors
Are you talking about ConcurrentModificationException? That shit's easy to avoid man.

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Does setting a function to be "hidden" allow for a compiler to optimise a function more?
i.e.

__attribute__((visibility("hidden"))) void my_fn(void)
{
    ...
}

I'm making a shared library, and I was curious if this makes a difference, especially if you're using link-time optimisation. I imagine the compiler could possibly inline and completely remove these sorts of functions, even if they're extern.

>>62206475
.net ecosystems seems to be extremely encumbered by proprietary crap whereas the jvm ecosystem does not have such issues. Beside, java GCs are known to be much better than .net ones, even though the .net runtimes are often faster than the java ones.

>>62206430
That would be sad if it were true, since clojure and ruby are dogshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNSqjXPzsSo

god is dead

>>62207298
What is that autism in the comment section

>>62207298
Hooktube now needs javascript enabled, and I hate Google. Give me the rundown

>>62207354
default notepad with comicsans ms to communicate with the viewer and skrillex music trying to explain how to make snake game in C

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>>62207377
This is the future we chose

>>62207398
the cherry on top is indians begging for source code in the comments

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>>62207416

>>62206776
because header files are a hack

I know this is a programmer thread, but does anyone know a good starter kit for getting into embedded shit with microcontrollers?

What's the least plebby scripting language?

>>62207497
They aren't a hack but everything is global when you include a file isn't it? That's why you have to prefix everything with underscores and add #ifdef checks to make sure things don't get included multiple times.

>>62207546
so instead of having to do that hackey stuff, i'm saying C should have namespaces

>>62203610
How many Github followers do you have? I only have 28.

This question is open to everyone in this thread, of course.

>>62207539
kawa

>>62207580
3
but im not studying to be- nor working as a programmer

>>62203610
>calls himself a programmer
>has a github with public projects

>>62207572
I agree, I was just making the point that there's nothing "hacky" about includes except for the hacks we as programmers make to prevent bad things from happening because namespaces don't exist.

let (|Even|Odd|) n =
    if n % 2 = 0 then
        Even
    else
        Odd

choose the type (or typedef in C) of data using a conditional statement.

I love F#

>>62207597
>>has a github with public projects
>Not using Gitlab

bring back /prog/

Which areas of math are most pertinent to programming?

>>62207607
>using fur "we're SJW and we lose all our data" lab

>>62207599
i shouldn't have said header files are a hack, i should've more precisely said header files require hackey practices because of the lack of namespaces. i wish they'd come out with ++C. something C++ should've been

>>62207606
Gross. They should be the same type (for example Number) and have a method such as Number.IsOdd or Number.IsEven.

>>62207619
>Which areas of biology are most pertinent to beakers?

>>62207497
What on earth do namespaces have to do with header files?

I want to try writing a game in Common Lisp but SDL doesn't have CL bindings. Do you think GLUT would be suitable?

>>62207637
Care to explain this analogy?

>>62207640
You have to header files A and B both have some foo. Which foo gets used? With a namespace this isn't an issue because you can either do `using A` or access foo via `A::foo`. In C I don't know which foo would be used, I guess it'd be up to the compiler?

>>62207649
SDL has CL bindings.

>>62207625
>making a function call everytime you wanna see if your number is odd or even
lol

>>62207580
0 but I work as a full time programmer

>>62207665
A header file is not a module.
Also, namespaces in the sense you're talking about does not fundamentally do anything useful, compared to just prefixing the name with some shit.
You can go on about your A::foo vs B::foo, but what if I call my namespace 'A' as well? What do these namespaces actually solve, compared to just A_foo and B_foo?
Don't conflate namespaces with actual modules, which is something different.

>>62207701
A good compiler will optimise out the function call.

>>62207733
you're deliberately missing the point because you can't stand any criticism of C. i like C. it'd be better with proper namespaces

>>62207736
-O3 fags leave

>>62207780
But what does it fundamentally add? What can you do with it that you couldn't do before.
Also, namespaces require name mangling of some sort, which is just not fucking acceptable. C is known for it's extremely simple/stable ABI, and is probably one of it's greatest advantages. Why would you break that for something which is literally useless?

>>62207607
>Gitlab
>not using Git Gud

>>62207733
A namespace makes it explicit where as with prefixing, things can slip through if you're not careful, not to mention some random library could break your build by adding something you don't expect.

A_foo is also more verbose than just `foo` (after a using A) or `A::foo` which makes it clear that something isn't just named "A_foo" it's actually foo and a part of A.

>>62205745
t. salty Pajeet c++ programmer working for $10/hr while Chad makes $200/hr at Google c+p'ing JS code from Stack Overflow.

>>62207813
it adds the convenience of knowing you're not going to be stepping on your own toes. and that's why people use HLLs. convenience.

>>62207816
Can we get a list of the least pozzed repository sites?

>>62207877
gitjew.il

>>62207839
>not to mention some random library could break your build by adding something you don't expect
And the proposed C++-like namespaces doesn't fix this either, because I can just use the same namespace.
Again, namespaces != proper modules.
>makes it clear that something isn't just named "A_foo" it's actually foo and a part of A.
Solving a complete non-issue. It's blindingly obvious from context. Don't pretend that programmers are literal fucking retards.

>>62207847
How on earth do namespaces stop you from "stepping on your own toes", whatever that's supposed to mean.

>>62207842
>while Jerome makes $200/hr at Google c+p'ing JS code from Stack Overflow and culturally enriching his female coworkers
ftfy

>>62207902
because there's not ambiguity when you use the same name in different files for different thing. are you thick?

>>62207923
>there's not ambiguity when you use the same name in different files for different thing
There is literally no ambiguity to begin with. You straight-up cannot have a symbol with two definitions: it'll result in a linker error.
Your one actually adds MORE ambiguity, at least for the programmer, because they now need to know what "using X" context they're in.

>>62207945
>Your one actually adds MORE ambiguity, at least for the programmer, because they now need to know what "using X" context they're in.

How is that an issue? Shouldn't you as a programmer know where functions have come from? This is an issue without namespaces, you still need to know where functions have come from to use it correctly and know what its arguments are, etc.

>>62208001
Your argument is all over the fucking place.
>How is that an issue? Shouldn't you as a programmer know where functions have come from?
I can say literally the exact same thing about non-namespaced functions.
>This is an issue without namespaces
How? There is a single, authoritative place that a function is defined, and as per your argument above, I should know where it is.

Also, with your precious "namespaces, but not modules", what's stopping me from doing

// mylib.hpp

namespace yourlib {
    void foo();
}

>>62207945
>>>/int/78998101

Is it worth learning a scripting language?

>>62208042
>Your argument is all over the fucking place.

You're right, I'm bad at articulating myself, for that I apologise.

>Also, with your precious "namespaces, but not modules", what's stopping me from doing

Generally people aren't assholes so won't do this. You're right that, that is an issue though. I don't know of a fix for that without proper modules as you've pointed out and I'm not sure what that might even look like.

>>62208090
yeah you'll need to know at least one (in addition to bash). don't go learning a million. i'd recommend python even though i don't like it

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>>62208071
Oh my fucking god

>>62208118
this desu senpai but I'm trying real fucking hard to replace python by something else since python is so unforgivably shit.

>>62208101
>Generally people aren't assholes so won't do this.
Again, the exact same thing can be said about A_foo, or whatever.
There is really nothing else I have to add to this. Namespaces fundamentally don't add anything to a language, and would only serve to fuck with the ABI,

>>62208071
Oh, wow.

>>62208150
retard

>>62208192
>>>/int/brit

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>>62208192

>>62208202
>>62208222
I see your butttears all over the place but your brain seems to be missing still.

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>>62208222
>>62208131
whats funny

>>62208240
He's getting argument advice from /brit/ because he knows he fucked up >>62208071

>>62208071
>>62208202
that is a thread dedicated to the discussion of british culture
none of you fucking nerds better not discuss your gay programming shit there

>yanks are now resorting to recruiting fellow yanks from other boards to dilute this thread's culture even further
fucking hell these cunts are worse than the pakis, honestly

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>>62208258
>>62208260

>>62204687
>combining functional programming with object oriented programming
Nothing new. Both CL and Racket have very robust object systems.

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>>62208192
>Call him a retard and close the tab
This is the hardest I've laughed in weeks

>>62204687
FOOL

Can we talk about programming for once in this thread?

No more insulting Indians/Americans/Europeans

No more socks

No more frog pictures

No more Python/Ruby/JS

>>62206357
Confirmed for not knowing what TCO is.

>>62208385
Can I talk about Lua?

>>62208394
It's not programming, so no.

What's the best IDE for learning C?

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>>62208385
Reddit spacing won't save you this time, 'wanker'

>>62208401
linux

>>62208401
I like S&W. Cheap and does the job if you know to aim for the roof of your mouth.

>>62208401
Pelles C if you're locked to Windows
I've never used an IDE on GNU+Linux

>>62208409
Not programming related, please leave.

>>62208385
Only if we can talk about how your mom is programed in >>/b/

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>>62208426
'Oy 'oy, fish-n-chips, fish-n-chips, mind the gap

>>>/int/78998721

>>62208401
vi

>>62208461
vim

>>62208467
Too many distractions to make an effective learning environment.

>>62208401
emacs

>>62208461
>>62208467
>>62208476
spacemacs

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>>62208455
>Willing to post with a proxy to damage control
Am I finally going to get to post my entire laughter folder?

>>62208444
Not programming related, please leave.

I've never programmed anything more substantial than end-of-chapter exercises from textbooks. Every project I've been suggested has sounded boring.

>>62208467
>>62208481
neovim

>>62208504
>neovim
heresy

>>62208502
I dare you to do a project that was suggested to you.

What's the matter? Not up to the challenge?

>>62208475
>learning environment
We're not all beginners, kiddo. Have you ever written a compiler? How about a bootloader? Did you do it in Visual Studio or Eclipse? I doubt it, baby-baby.

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>>62208500
You've been a fucking delight, m8

>>62208523
>>neovim
>heresy
Wrong. Objectively better.

>>62208532
>learning C
>not a beginner
Pick one.

>>62208523
:term is love, :term is life.

>>62208536
BEGONE HERETIC

>>62208502
why not do this?
http://www.buildyourownlisp.com/
i'm thinking of going through it 30 minutes a day just for the compiler aspect, already know C and lisp

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>>62208523
Fine, I'll take my post number and translate that to a number from this chart.

>>62208612
Paint clone it is. Seems boring, tbqh, but I'll do it.

I know C, C++, Haskell and Common Lisp. That's enough, right?

>>62208612
rolling

>>62205427
pretty much this desu

>>62208663
do you really know C++, or are you just familiar with a subset of it? if you know C++ you can get a job easily

>>62208553
That's an indefensible position.

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Started learning Java as my first programming language.

I started with 'A Beginner's Guide' and saw the 748 pages and thought I could go through it in 1-2 weeks. Boy, was I wrong... I'm almost on week two and only up to Chapter 5 - Page 181.

I've been practicing some of the problems as I go, obviously. I understand them, in my mind. But I feel all this programming... language is something that I have to memorize sort of. Understanding a code when I read it but not being able to create it from scratch (some of them) is a bit irritating.

It makes me want to rush through things but I hold myself back to bang my head against problems I even understand just to make SURE SURE I can do them. Now I see why it's taking me longer to finish my first book.

So yeah, these first few steps of programming are quite steep damn.

why not use ucs-4, seems the simplest?

>>62208679
By "know", I mean I've read about 10 textbooks (mostly intermediate best practice and puzzle books, but also some more advanced ones on concurrency and metaprogramming), and have been doing projects in it for 2 years.

When I graduate I might try getting a job as a C++ programmer.

>>62208711
Something can be an improvement and heretical at the same time.

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Hello, novice programmer here.
All of my programing experience has been inside an IDE. I have been told it may be better to learn from using a text editor and a compiler, and I am currently learning both C and Java. However, I am totally confused on how to set up these compilers and allow my written scripts to be compiled through them. I understand a small amount of command line function, like how to navigate directories, but that is mostly it. If someone could point me in the direction of some resource or a quick tutorial for someone very new, that would be great. Reading the documentation on the compilers I plan to use doesn't help me very much. Advice on switching from an IDE would also be helpful as well, just to stop me in case I am being memed (highly possible)

>>62208783
>So yeah, these first few steps of programming are quite steep damn.
As with any new skill.
Java was my first language as well, went about half-way through a similarly sized beginner's guide. After that I found a free online book on Perl - that was a really fun change of direction.
Going through SICP, at least the first few chapters, might be good for you - what they present in that book definitely requires more understanding than memorization from the reader.

>>62208783
The way I think of it is as follows:

At first, learning a programming language is less learning the language and more understanding to express yourself through code. It's seeing how common problems can be abstracted to functions that each do small things whose effects compound, and how to achieve your goals in the simples way possible.

Once you have a suitable framework, when you try learning a new language, you'll have a much easier time because now you'll be learning the syntax and how to write idiomatic code instead of learning what programming is.

So don't rush at all, but make sure you take is slow at first. Java (as much as I hate it) is a decent introductory programming language. It's pretty dummy-proof, so it allows you to focus on the bare bones of programming (although I don't think it's suitable for much more)

>>62208783
nice blog, upvote
i start seriously with c++ then ended up hating myself for 2 weeks before continue

>>62208934
>Java
javac is the standard Java compiler you should have available if you have Java installed. Go to the directory where you've saved your program, invoke the compiler:

$ javac MyProgram.java

This should compile your program to

MyProgram.class

. Now you can execute your program within a Java Runtime Environment with the java command:

$ java MyProgram

>Advice on switching from an IDE
Obviously use an editor with syntax highlighting. If you have the time and grit, take a few weeks to learn how to use a meme like vim. If you don't, stick to Atom/Sublime/Notepad++ if you're on Winblows.

>>62208866
You know Bram Moolenaar didn't invent vi, right? Sure he made good improvements on it, but that's the point isn't it? Bram improved on what others before him built, just as neovim improves on what Bram built. If Bram had the same religious devotion to tradition that you have, we wouldn't have vim.

>>62208663
If you want a job, you should learn a useful language like HTML or CSS :^/

>>62208952
>Going through SICP, at least the first few chapters, might be good for you - what they present in that book definitely requires more understanding than memorization from the reader.
That's very good to know. I definitely try to understand more than/before memorizing.. I feel I have to know -why- to be able to express my solution with clarity always.

Thank you, I will put it on my list for sometime after I feel more comfortable with coding.

>>62208980
Yeah, I'm definitely trying to slow myself here and pay close attention to the basics. I'll probably spend a good few weeks.. or whatever it takes to put all this learning into practice through all sort of projects and online exercises I can find.

I understand that I understand code, but I need it to become more a way of my thinking/part of me I think to be able to progress with excellence.

Thanks for the tips, I picked Java cause I thought it was a good "balance" as far as programming languages go to not "spoon-feed" me too much but that will put me in a good place to approach other languages. I hope so.

How much do you inline, C++ programmers?
Everything 1-3 lines?

>>62209250
Nothing because the compiler will do it for you.

>>62209250
Depends. If it's a small project and all the classes are small, probably just inline everything in the .h.
Anything bigger, I'd rather be consistent across all modules, so maybe inline tiny stuff (trivial constructors/getters/setters) in the .h's, but put everything else in .c's. If the compiler decides to optimize any of that, that's cool with me, I just want a clean, consistent codebase.

>>62209295
>write code like a drunken slut on h writes in mancum
>>>>>>>>>>>clean, consistent codebase

>>62209046
I will just use Notepad++, I like stuff simple. Thank you for the help, I got the compiler up and going, and I don't really find it that really different from my code examples without one. I never paid too much attention to the code highlighting, and the errors are pretty descriptive. Thanks again!

>>62205876
I have a bunch of questions for you.

My brain can't handle FP programming and memorize all the functions. Any tips around this?

Do you follow a specific SDLC?

How do you test your product in the unit level, integration level, system level and acceptance level?

Is it all test scripts from the ground up?

>>62209648
Go back to middleschool, kid. The adults are talking.

>void *(*start_routine) (void *)
what does this definition actually mean? start_routine is the name of the function

>>62209767
It's a function pointer.

>>62209792
i know, can you explain why it being a function call requires void*(*_____)(void*)?

>>62209702
>trying this hard on a congolese child soldier recruiting boad
im glad i grew out of this attitude.

>>62209807
It's defining the type of the function pointer.

The first void* means that the function it points to returns a void*. The second void* means that it takes a single argument of type void*.

got it, i didn't know what that last part was. thanks

>>62209648
>>My brain can't handle FP programming and memorize all the functions.
Have you considered gitting gud?

Use it. The more you use, the more you remember. Isn't this common sense?

>>62209648
>My brain can't handle FP programming and memorize all the functions. Any tips around this?
You end up memorizing core functions with enough practice. Beyond that, use types to identify probable functions that you want.

>>62209648
>My brain can't
Write in cursive daily. I swear it's not a meme. Your cognitive abilities will increase significantly within weeks.

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>java
lmao off at princeton

>>62210017
What is with the curly braces and the while loop in the root method?

>>62206357
What is loop/recur

>>62210044
Lad....

    while (i != id[i]) 
    {
        i = id[i];
    }

>>62210017
What's so funny?

Why do C++ shills meme that you have to have a powerful brain to understand C++ and use it well--
supposedly unlike the C zealot, who need only know relatively few concepts and keywords--while opponents of the language disagree and claim that C++ is like a disgusting chimera of multiple species and genders and it all fits together very poorly and produces very ugly code?

Has it not occurred to them that both things are true? C++ is a patched- together language grotesque in its enormity. Also--and not only also, but ERGO, even--the demands it places on programmer intellect are considerable.

Why do they disagree with each other when it seems like common sense that they're both saying the same thing?

>>62210107
I know, but why use a while loop? Why not just use an if statement? And when I was talking about the braces, why was he using the more C# style and not the traditional Java style.

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>>62210261
>I know, but why use a while loop? Why not just use an if statement?
Are you familiar with the problem? It's basically a tree where you find the root, if you did a single if-statement, you wouldn't traverse the tree.
>And when I was talking about the braces, why was he using the more C# style and not the traditional Java style.
Not too familiar with either.

Sorry, not sure if I understood either of your questions.

>>62210133
I was trying to fit in.

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I've just started trying to learn programming today and i've been doing more fucking math than learning stuff about programming. For the first time in my life i heard the term "exponent's" and I spent about an hour trying to wrap my head around what the fuck it meant and about 20 minutes of that time trying to find the exponent button on a calculator.

Is there any hope for me?

>>62210438
>Not knowing exponents
Wow... that's really basic.

I mean, that did shock me. But I guess you should keep going and see how difficult it is? You might need to up your math game a little though. I don't think it's the end of the world but if it's that bad then it would make your own life much easier.

On top of that programming does take a lot of practice and time. So have fun, it's a long ride. It's better you're aware of that now than regret it later. But don't be discouraged, if you really want it.

>>62205498
you can make some websites or apps that make heavy use of sql. For example data mine the st louis fed's data and see if you can write some queries, maybe put them in graphs for visualization.

build a website that requires user input and store those values in an sql database. I did that prior to knowing I could get hired for a corporation and showed them what I did. Those projects got me hired because my degree is in an unrelated field.

>>62210438
>I've just started trying to learn programming today and i've been doing more fucking math than learning stuff about programming.
That is normal. At a fundamental level, programming is about manipulating your ideas until you have turned them into math, at which point a computer (read: math machine) can actually execute your ideas.

>Is there any hope for me?
Probably, yes. It's a harsh introduction for almost everyone. It takes some getting used to.

>>62210438
>i'm 8 years old

>>62210438
>>62210504
I had to check what exponents were, but for a language barrier reason, I knew the word power for it.
Where do you come from ? Do they not teach you this in high school ?

>>62204687
It's called Scala, or OCaml/F#. Either way, in both of those languages, the advanced programmers have generally accepted that it's best to throw out the OOP parts and just do things the functional way instead.

>>62206577
Because software has value, and some people want to be compensated for producing that value.

>>62203462
on the fly Ingesting and decompressing a gzipped JSON stream in Go.

Writing Flume sources and clients in Scala using Cats for grabbing data from several social media sites and putting it in HDFS.

building a home Hadoop cluster.
Brushing up on good 'ol C

Data cleaning and machine learning research

>>62210504
>>62210525
Thank's for the encouragement. And yeah i knew this wasn't something i was gonna pick up quickly, but all these mathematical terms that have popped up so early has gave me a shock.
>>62210569
I wish. If i was i would probably be picking this up more easily.
>>62210580
UK and i don't know if they taught it at school since I skived off a lot, but it wasn't on any test. Maybe sixth form might've taught it but i didn't choose to stop on.

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third year CS student here, this may be a dumb question but what do professional non-web programmers actually make?

like java and c/++ are super popular languages but i personally only use a few desktop programs. what are those java and c/++ programmers making that makes those languages so popular? like the obvious android shit (java) and OS shit (c) but there must be other shit right?

maybe im just being a retard but it seems like everything is a webapp nowadays

>>62210984
>maybe im just being a retard but it seems like everything is a webapp nowadays
no, you're right
this is why javascript is so popular right now, and overtaking languages like java and C++

>>62210984
>there must be other shit right
Business app such as management and other things are big (Java and C# are big in ERP)

>>62211044
big enough to warrant using java as your core language?

im just having a moment where i want to go head deep into javascript and its frameworks and ignore everything else, if thats the best way to get a job

>>62211111
Depends on which industry you plan on joining. On the B2B market that's the main category of products. I don't recommend putting all your eggs in a single basket though. If you're fine with web by all means go for Javascript but make sure you at least know some stuff about databases, infrastructure etc.

>>62210984
In the $40,000's and up for any proper work environment. expensive cities in the $50's or $60's starting is not unheard of.

some places might start you off in the $30,000's if its a government job with low requirements or if you are a glorified help desk monkey.

>>62210984

You are a consumer and only use consumer applications. Not all applications are marketed towards people like you, and so you never see them.

Just wanted to say: Fuck Apache TomCat with a fucking serrated knife.

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>tfw you will never be good at programming
Why even try?

>>62203542
Use electron and typescript and angular. It's all I use for anything that requires a GUI now.

>>62211250
you try so you become good.

>>62211274
That's like telling a fish to climb a tree ;_;

>>62211250
So you can deny you've ever tried in case you fail

How jealous are you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBXZWB_dNsw

>>62211285
where is this kid now?

i never watched this video but he sounds like someone who would kill himself early lol

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>>62211250
>tfw you will never be good at programming
You only need to be good enough.

Learn Java, we'll accept you.

>>62211253
See
>>62205594

>senior design class
>I'm literally the only person that uses github to organize their projects

>>62211280
Programming is one of the easiest things to learn.
If you can solve a captcha, you can make a program.

>>62211320

well what kind of projects are they..? are they projects that benefit from being on git?

also if you go to a meme school they might be using bitbucket or gitlab

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>>62204837
>intentionally making a language that doesn't provide safety guarantees

>>62211300
How about you fuck off?

>>62211320
i did senior projects with and without github. didn't really make a difference desu.

>>62211300
Fuck off you worthless idiot.

>>62206644
>implying SELinux isn't a honeypot

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>>62211333

>>62206577
It's not as well written in terms of a legal document as CC0. It wasn't drafted by lawyers.

Do programs like make that have shit ton of output run faster, even by a little bit, if they don't print their output? Can I just do something like make > /dev/null?

>>62211212
Can you explain to me how you can be in computer security while at the same time willingly using a smartphone? How do you make secure the existence of the baseband? Just what kind of snakeoil definition of "security" are you peddling over there in academia?

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>>62211337
>>62211339
>javascript devs get this mad when you call them on their shit

>>62211427
No, it's because you're an utterly moronic tripfag who doesn't know shit about programming.

>>62211446
>saying I'm a tripfag
Wow, you sure are flustered. Anger has clearly clouded your vision.

>>62207649
https://github.com/lispgames/cl-sdl2

>>62211359
>>62204837 said that their language is "Rust without the safety bullshit", which implies that Rust is safe. Checkmate, cunt.

>>62211427
Mad that electron devs like me make an entire fully functional application and aesthetically pleasing user interface in a day while Qt devs are debugging their segfaults?

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>>62211520
>fully functional application
Pictured: fully functional human.

>>62207606

return n % 2;

>>62211553
That's not really a functional human tho. I doubt she can procreate, walk for extended periods or care for herself without any help.

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thoughts on kotlin?

>>62212030
ugly pos that doesn't really fix the main problems with Java so much as it puts bandaids over them

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>>62207580

1

How to get gud at databases? Is there a sicp like book for dbs?

>>62212191
just normalize that shit and you are good to go

>>62212191
This is all you will ever need:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6gx4Cwl9DGDQ5DrbIl20Zu9hx1IjeVhO

>>62212046
>that doesn't really fix the main problems with Java so much as it puts bandaids over them
Can you elaborate? I've been curious about java and kotlin for a while now.

New thread:

>>62212233
>>62212233
>>62212233

>>62212207
>>62212223
Thanks but I literally can't stomach video tutorials, I need a book

>>62211502
He also said it's bullshit.

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Can CMake download dependencies automatically like Gradle or Maven does?

>>62211333
Well, for one thing all that safety guarantees are not there, because i didn't get to implementing them.
Also, i'm not convinced that allowing only one mutable reference to any object is a good thing.
I do plan to include something, that would prevent dangling pointers etc.

>>62205084
A suicidal encouragement not resulting in a suicide is legal afaik

nullpo

>>62203592
whoah that was fast
good job anon >>62203475