Why the fuck is the "developer" community so obsessed

>>61606113
There are a lot of "developers" who only know JavaScript.

>>61606113
Because it's the language of the future, if you want to be left in the dust, then by all means stick to C.

I dont know either why they forcing this stupid language (JavaScript).
Would be better if they forcing LUA (or something sort of C-Script) instead of JavaScript for "Web's things" that could be more better.

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>>61606239
>Shitty script lang for browsers is the lang of the future

Top kek

>>61606113
WebAssembly will replace it.

>>61606113
Stay mad as I get hired for more money to do silly react redux implementations even though I have zero design skills

>>61606268
>yfw shitty script language jobs pay 100K+ while your average C autist keeps living in his mother's basement
Really activates your almonds.

>>61606172
This and how to copy and paste from Github and make minor alterations.

>>61606113
because there is still lots of $$$$ to be made in making web sites and web applications

>>61606268
You know that v8 makes this shitty language really really fast and usable for serious projects? Oh no, because you are dumb pedophile neckbeards that only browses /g/ to shitpost and post dumb anime pictures

>>61606297
>100k+ or autism
i'll go with autism

>>61606297
>>61606367

Looks like I trigger some shills kek

Cry more, I can't wait to webassembly replace that js shit

>>61606297
>Really activates your almonds.

kill yourself back to >>>/pol/

>>61606471
No, actually no trigger. I am a C-tard myself.
There just have to be reasons why 1. javascript is so popular and 2. why javascript jobs get paid so good.
You know this demand and supply thingy from school?

>>61606522
Stay mad, autistic piece of garbage.

>>61606522
>he doesn't activate his almonds

>>61606471
JS isn't going anywhere
http://dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html

>>61606367
>fast

>>61606528
It is just something momentary. I'm saying that is NOT the "lang of future"

It is just a shitty script lang for browser what is popular right now

>>61606284
I hope to god that it will.

>>61606410
>/g/ the post

>>61606547
>I was sitting out on the Lucid porch with some of the hackers, and someone asked me why I thought people believed C and Unix were better than Lisp. I jokingly answered, "because, well, worse is better." We laughed over it for a while as I tried to make up an argument for why something clearly lousy could be good.
Just another delusional Lisp dinosaur.

>>61606256
>LUA
lua is way worse than js

>>61606113
a year or two ago i absolutely hated javascript. i would go into job interviews and tell them "i only want to work with statically typed languages." a lot of them got pretty angry with me and started trying to argue why JS is better than java.

i decided to just learn it since it's so widely used anyways. i figured it couldn't be avoided. once you learn it pretty well, it's actually pretty fun to write. i use it for all my hobby projects now. it's great for prototyping and middle tier web development.

>>61606865

>it's actually pretty fun to write

lol no

>>61606887
why not? dynamic, loose typing and loose syntax is nice. you don't have to be very precise. just write shit out real quick and run it. promises are fun too, and it's fun to learn new frameworks and libraries in the npm ecosystem.

>>61606367
Except it doesnt make it fast. It's still garbage tier

>>61606113

Because, thanks to V8, JS os faster than Java.

Also, better language for asynchronous operations.

>>61606902
>>61606907
good ones

"developers" love the quote

At least someone has sense.


-f the founder

>>61606113
We're moving toward hosted applications that have smooth native like transitions and display real-time data changes. No more installing locally. JavaScript has been patched to shit in order to accomplish this. Blame Mozilla for it being the only option.

>>61606907
uh no that's not true

it's faster than any other scripting language though

>>61606826
Why?

>>61606977
1-based indexing

>>61606989
Is that the only argument?
Then just fork the language to make it 0 indexed.

>>61606977
Accessing undeclared variables automatically instantiates them in the global scope and assigns nil.

>>61606902
Weak, dynamic typing is awful, it means errors that could otherwise be caught only occur at run time several calls removed from where the actual problem lies. Opting in to opaque runtime errors is senseless.

>>61607024
>Accessing undeclared variables
why would you do this?

>>61606113
Javascript is a horrible language and node never should of happened. It was born only because some front end dev were too lazy to learn a good backend language.

That alone should tell you everything you need to know about node developers.

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>>61606113
because it just werks. but of course it's shit without typescript. my friend has to figure out a medium-sized electron js project at work and this shit is absolutely fucking unreadable without type annotations

>>61606907
v8 is pretty fast but still not nearly as fast as java

>>61607036
Because of a typo.

>>61606902
>dynamic, loose typing and loose syntax is nice.
So many languages do that better than javascript. If you only ever worked with c/c++/java before then I can see why you think js is an improvement, but believe me. Ruby, Python, Crystal, etc are all much better.

>>61607024
of course it can cause errors but it allows you to write code faster. that's the point. it's for prototyping and web stuff, not for mission critical code.

>>61607080
yes but none of them have the backing that JS has. ruby is ded, python is only used for machine learning and django, crystal is literally who.

>>61607046
Dis

>>61607046
keep in mind these tests are run on a quad core cpu, and nodejs doesnt let easily let you do multithreading

>>61606113
Because theyre not pajeets who only do C

>>61607313
why is it using 4 cores for mandelbrot then??

>>61606471
do you even know what WebAssembly is for? it isn't, and was never intended to be, a replacement for JavaScript.

Node lowers the barrier to get from front-end to back-end. This lets companies save alot of money.

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>>61606113
I was never in the hype train, so this is probably the closest reasonable answer.

For a background, I was only taught Java and some C in college.
I taught myself everything I know about NodeJS a year before graduation (along with a couple other languages), because I got worried that the curriculum was insufficient.

Plainly put, NodeJS just makes sense. You don't have to establish/set up language constructs to do something basic. You can guess what to do in your code without having to check the docs every couple minutes. Returns are obvious, casting is minimal, and since everything is an object, manipulating data between complex functions is still very simple.
I've heard people don't like the callback mechanism, which is understandable, but for someone who never understood/heard of it before learning the language, I really like it.

>>61607382
That's an intentionally milquetoast position statement from the designers to come off less bold and threatening to webdevs already entrenched in javascript. Anyone who knows what wasm is and where it's going can read the writing on the wall. Once they specify an api for garbage collection any language is fair game for client-side browser programming and browser vendors won't bother to maintain a separate scripting engine just for javascript. Webdevs will abandon javascript for whatever the next fad language is because they have no attention span.

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>>61607562
>imma just code my webapp in assembly
topkek how delusional are they?

>>61607588
>imma just code my android app in JVM bytecode
this is how retarded you sound

>>61607378
my guess is that due to the highly parallel nature of mandelbrot Node is able to utilise its C/C++ layer as opposed to being limited to single threaded Javascript. as for why it still appears slower in that benchmark, i don't know.

>>61607604
>JVM
Java?
lol

>>61607588
...WebAssembly isn't an actual assembly language, it's an intermediate target for other languages' compilers.

wasm won't replace js because it's not supposed to lmao

>>61607692
lmao

>>61607588
It's actually trivial if you know http requests.
As long as you don't need javascript for client side computations you can fully write a webapp in any compiled to machine code language provided you can interface with the OS and network. Eg: libc and socket's

>>61607562
maybe in your ideal world that would be true. back in reality, it will take a long time for Javascript to be replaced completely. the real goal will be to shit out web apps mostly in JS and speed up the slow parts with wasm. i can't say i'm not sympathetic to your ideals, but you're out of your mind if you think C++/Rust will kill JS anytime soon. Wasm is looking at extending to include other languages at some point, but once again, that will take time. JS will be around longer than you think.

>>61606113
It's easy to grasp and allows you to write sloppy code that just werks.

I'm biased because I really do not like the syntax; I tried and tried to put up with it but it makes me want to hurl every time I see it. Still..I can't imagine the web being as advanced as it is now without it playing a role. It's important for the history of the web, but I believe it should be surpassed and replaced by something cleaner.

>>61607790
I don't think C++/Rust will drive js away, that's why I mentioned garbage collection, which the designers do have in their roadmap. Nothing is ever replaced completely but given how fashion-driven and temperamental web developers and their products are it'll probably not take as long as you'd expect to marginalize javascript once the groundwork is in place.

Because it runs on everything and dev times are like 1/1000th of other languages not to mention the 1000000000s of frameworks and widgets.
I used to hate it compared to heavy languages until I realized how much easier and faster it is to build shit in JS UNLESS you're a neckbeard loli loving basement lincuck sipping the cum overflowing out of your moms holes.

>>61608023
show what you have built.

>>61608154
Not him, but I've put together quite a few large applications with it.
It's dead easy to integrate with anything.

>>61608284
post them.

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>>61606113
>>61606297
>>61606410
>>61606767
>>61606471
heh, cry yanks and westerners

I, an eastern euro am stealing all of your jobs by just selling wordpress themes to rando pizzerias in America, UK, Aus, Germoney, etc.

I work for like 20k a year and I live like a king by not even knowing how to kode™

How does it make u feel that I spend $500 a month on rent/bills/food, yet live in a luxury city centre condo and do sex with qt traps :3

notting personnel, kid

-Ivan

>>61608303
lol no.
They're online. I'm not revealing my id here topkek.

>>61608381
If you don't post them then I'll just guess what they are.
They are shit, not actually large, don't have any kind of constraints under which they operate, and would probably be written better in any other language.
Now go suck a dick, you fucking js-faggot.

>>61606113
Why the fuck are you obsessed with the Javascript community?

Just wait until webassembly comes. Javascript is thankfully finished.

>>61606113

>What's with this node.js?

Is it 2009 again?

Anyway to answer your question:
-you have a huge pool of JS developers (basically all frontend guys)
-JS is already in every browser installed (let's ignore the 0.3% that are GNUtards for a moment)


>NodeJS, ReactJS

Congratulations, those have literally nothing in common.

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>>61608487
u mad boi?
How about you start putting together some projects and libraries, instead of bitching at people who do.

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>he doesn't sit on a chair.js
>he doesn't drink water.js
>he doesn't walk with shoes.js

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>>61608575
I laugh at you pretending to have done anything worthwhile in this horrible piece of shit of a language.
If you want to prove me wrong, then show me (by posting your shit), or are you scared that the mad 1337 haxxors of anonymoose will order pizza to your doorstep?
you weak nigger.

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>>61608683
>that image
>that aggressiveness
Damn, I didn't think >>61608023 was being serious.
He was on fucking point.

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>>61608735
The fuck are you talking about?
Stop dodging , and show me your proofs.
Show me anything you programmed in this language that is more than just a toy, and that couldn't have been made better in most other languages.
I am waiting.
But since you are just baiting around this topic, I know that there is nothing you can show.
This is because you are a retarded monkey, and should honestly kill yourself.

Just embrace JS my friends. If you're good at other languages there's no reason you can't be good with JS.

>>61608532
Webassembly runs on Javascript VMs my friend.

>>61607613
>he fell for all the /g/ means and dont know any actual technology

You know how you give a baby a simple baby puzzle and he feels like a genius after solving it? Thats javascript developers

>>61606113
it's pretty fucked up too that JS is so bad that there are languages made just so you can avoid it (like typescript)

in any case, it should fucking stay in the browser

>>61609423
on the contrary, making anything stable in javascript is a neverending bugsquashing challenge

>>61609454
Javascript debugging is simple though, at least the v8 console is quite literal

>>61609293
>Webassembly runs on Javascript VMs my friend.
That's not even the issue. The problem with js is the language itself (no ints, lmao) and the substandard people who use it.

>>61608379
I work in a small MSP, and have dealt with people like you. Trust me, we hate people like you because you are incompetent, but we love you because for every broken wordpress site you ship to one of our customers we have to spend hours upon hours helping you upload it to the web server, choosing the right PHP version, etc. All of which we can bill our customers for.

>>61609833
Romanian here, the customers are usually pretty satisfied after a tour booking plugin and some CSS edits so keep dreaming.

Why are there so many JS devs on a technology board?

>>61609402
>t. someone who never had to work with massive Java codebases

>>61610022
Only for a couple of months. My first couple of years in the industry consisted of fixing shitty Wordpress shop work

>>61610022
I mostly had to deal with indians, but frankly I find that even people here who exclusively do the design and marketing are just as incompetent.
I don't know how to use wordpress, joomla, drupal or anything like that, but I know my way around js, html, php, css, mysql, etc. so I basically fix things that way when their designers are lost

>>61607078
>shiggy diggy

>>61610109
much superior to working with massive C++ or JS codebases

>>61606989
why would they do this?

>>61606284
>>61606703
it will only enhance js and make it even more prevalent and efficient

>>61606113
JS is super easy.
You can just throw objects together piecemeal.
At no point do you need to actually really think about what you're doing, just bolt more shit onto your object until it does what you want.

I had to do a smallish JS project in a week semi-recently, basically ended up throwing a dozen super disparate objects into one big array and they'd indicate what "type" they were in a .type property (that was also super fucking loose) and would have an .apply() function that'd smooth shit over when the whole array was processed. Some of the objects were more special than others and had loads more shit than the .type indicated.
Saved a fucking ton of time honestly -- I don't routinely use the language, and I was super strapped for time, even working on it while on the road, so I probably broke every guide on good style. It was a fucking mess, but god damn, it let me just slap code together until I got something that worked.
for small projects under 2k lines, this is fine, who cares if it's pretty, as long as the result works

but holy fuck it's still kind of nasty (bugs that would have taken zero time to find a typed language now introduce subtle errors since the program still fucking runs, no block scope sucks ass and makes certain things less certain, operators really, really, really suck, etc) and for any remotely large project, your team would need some hearty discipline to not get bitten by the whole "yes, let's just give specific objects properties that are created long, long, long after initialization, often spread out across several functions" thing, which might end up happening entirely on accident and no one notices

if there's on thing I really like about JS without reservation, functions are ridiculously nice in it

>>61614021
>JS is super easy.
>You can just throw objects together piecemeal.
>At no point do you need to actually really think about what you're doing, just bolt more shit onto your object until it does what you want.

This is exactly why i hate JS: Faggot and retard enabler language.

>>61606113
Employers like it because now they can make their frontend web developers work on backend without having to spend money to hire dedicated backend developers.

>>61606788
>>Just another delusional Lisp dinosaur.
>implying that acceptance of cold, hard reality is endorsement

>>61607080
>better
Premature optimization is the root of all evil.

>>61607313
>nodejs doesnt let easily let you do multithreading
So write microservices. Hell, write microservices in C or Erlang to do your heavy lifting if you really must have parallelism.

>>61607423
What kind of crackpot would want to write their business logic twice?

>>61607431
A good Promise library helps a lot with the callbacks.

Q.ninvoke(fs, 'readFile', fname, 'utf-8')
.then((contents) => {
})

>>61614021
>he hasn't heard of the let keyword
>he hasn't heard of "use strict"

>>61614200
Aren't you embarrassed to be so bourgeois?

>>61614421
>he hasn't heard of closing his code tags
goddamnit

>>61606113
I'm happy writing native code, but almost all of my recent projects have involved JS.

There's pretty much only one reason, which is that it's extremely productive.

You could write a frontend using only straight HTML, CSS, and pure ES5 JS. But once you've done an Angular project with SCSS and TypeScript, you don't really want to go back due to the power and productivity of it.

On the backend, JS is not my theoretically ideal language but
1) With Node v8.x's full async/await support, combined with a linter and general best practices, it's no longer hellish to use for business logic but actually quite pleasant. The async nature of everything/callback hell is a thing of the past now that you can just `await` on everything. Check it out if you haven't.
2) The ecosystem is enormous. You want to add/use/integrate with <foo>? Just search "node foo" and you'll almost certainly find a stable, well-built, actively maintained module for it with a significant userbase.

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>>61614421
>A good Promise library

Node supports up to async await now, you're still using Q to do promises?

>>61614599
async/await isn't everywhere I need to be *yet*, so Q it is.

>>61614421
>A good Promise library helps a lot with the callbacks.
That's the one thing I never really got a hang of.
Usage seems painful and tedious, so I design my functions accordingly, or use Event Emitters.

>>61606113
javascript WAS shit, but everything changed now since ES6, Typescript, Reactive programming and SSR

>>61614681
???
Use a transpiler for frontend (typescript).
For the backend, surely you can control the Node version available?

>>61614749
Typescript seems shit compared to Flow desu
Flow is just a drop in (you can use babel and stuff) and doesn't force you to use shitty Mircosoft tooling

>>61614811
how does TS force you to use MS anything

it runs on node.js

>>61614811
I don't use Typescript nor Flow but they are especially good for big teams, you can write equally good code using pure ES6,7

>>61614749
js was never shit
the js community has always been and will continue to be shit

its that easy

>>61614818
Point was, to get the whole benefits with Typescript you have to get deep into MS shit, use their compiler, use an editor plugin or even VSCode
With Flow, you don't have to change shit, you can still use Webpack/Babel, you can still use your editor, etc
It's more modular

I guess the big advantage of TS is the amount of typed libraries, Flow barely has any in comparison
Either way, any compile-time typing is a good thing for larger projects and I wish I discovered it earlier.
(Reacts run-time type checking/propTypes + ESLint catch a majority of errors, too though)

>>61614872
> to get the whole benefits with Typescript you have to get deep into MS shit
lmao

>>61614872
i don't know man, tide (which is for emacs) works pretty good

hell you can even set it up so it compiles to JS automatically every time you save

>>61614845
Yeah no doubt. It's just another aid
I love to write functional code /w ES6
I mean ofc it's no Haskell but just applying functional programming principles, using arrow functions and HOFs allows you to write concise code that is super easy to reason about and test
Too bad you gotta have state and side effects here and there.

>>61606113

NodeJS is different from whatever shit websites are using because it runs on a server

>>61614895
>hell you can even set it up so it compiles to JS automatically every time you save
but that's what I use webpack* for
it's the de facto standard of bundlers and has huge support, I can't imagine any TS compiler compares to the ecosystem/amount of features

*webpack is a total shit if you are starting out but after setting up a dozen projects it's insanely powerful.
I never thought I'd say this but I've come to like it

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How do I into these javascripts? Start with vanilla? Dive into frameworks? I was going to go with C# but I'll prolly need JS anyways.

What do?

>>61615713

python

>>61615713
https://github.com/bpesquet/thejsway/blob/master/manuscript/chapter01.md

>>61614021

This is why people use JS, PHP, and bash. Half-assed is fine when you only need half an ass.

>>61607378
because they use cluster and explicit message passing for parallelism.

>>61614717
I like Q because it has special support for working with node-style callbacks. You can turn any promise into a nodeback with Q.Promise.nodeify. You can call functions that expect nodebacks with Q.nfcall/Q.ninvoke.
Promises are especially nice for things like caches where you can just return a promise for a result, perhaps one that's already fulfilled, and store the promises in the cache to avoid duplicate fetching.
One of the friendliest benefits of promises is that they help unfuck your rightward-marching indentation into levels that look and work more like try/catch would. When you've got a sequence of async steps and need to skip some but not all of them in case of error, they're pleasant.

>>61614980
No typescript plugin for webpack?

>>61614797
My current project is neck-deep in CoffeeScript. Probably for the next one.

>>61616483
Node was intended to handle lots of network connections, not so much concurrent computing. I don't see any problem with that.

>>61616090
Thanks for the help friend.

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>>61606113
>be webdev
>want to do something not-websity
>only know js
>never heard of python
>install node.js
90% of user cases explained

>>61616867
How is Python qualitatively better than Node.js?

>>61616882
It actually has decent libraries. The only decent JavaScript libraries are client side libraries.

>>61617269
express is god-tier

>>61617269
request
nodegit
zmq
and sure, many of the important client-side libraries like async, realm, jszip, pako, moment, lodash, etc. have node ports or Just Work.

>>61617288
Express is trivial. Basically every language has something as good or better.

>>61617458
The point is that it's there and has a bretty gud collection of parsers and filters that can be easily pulled in and utilized.

I don' like JS syntax. That's all.

Anyone who unironically thinks there is a language in existence that is technically more sound than swift you need to unironically get out

>>61608683

why are her teeth pointy?

>>61606367
It is fucking hilarious how "triggered" this person got -- calling people who don't like Javascript "pedophiles".

You're defending a coding language, and a shitty one at that. Fucking lol

>>61606297
>any dev' position
>100K+

lol get a job

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>>61616867
You need a server to write desktop programm ?

>>61619354
>2020 - 3
>writing desktop applications

$("#haters").fadeOut;

Javascript isn't too bad if you don't use it like an idiot. I think all these free code camps are turning javascript into punjaviscript.

>>61620001
I fucking hate jquery

>>61606113
Because it's easier to have all the code for your website in one language with the same libraries backend and frontend.

>>61620001
only retards use jQuery instead of css for animation

>>61620278
This. Business logic should be DRY.

>>61620001
At least fix your function call. It's not a property

>>61606367
>flat = kid

Spotted the australian.

>>61606113
Because it's a reasonably fast interpreted language with many good features, a HUGE ecosystem, and extremely wide distribution.

>>61620001
There's no faster way to make a file completely unmaintainable anti-pattern then to throw a bit of Jquery into the mix

>>61606113
Also, by the way... please list some things you don't like about Javascript, Node or those "shitty frameworks". How about you get specific?

>>61619354
Might as well, assuming your program doesn't need really fast performance. It will make it easier in the future if you ever want to bring your program to the web.