Who fucking thought this was a good idea Who sat down and said,

>>61553904
>I failed "intro to programming" and now I'm going to vent my frustration to other college dropouts on /g/ - the thread

>>61553904
Compared to Visual Basic, it was an improvement.

>>61553909
>Get the garbage collector on this guy, because this is a trash opinion

>>61553991
System.gc()

I guess you're too retarded to remember the days where cross-platform compatibility was a big fucking deal, huh?

>>61553904
Oracle. They're the ones who got a team of amateurs to disassemble the original version of Java and figure out how it worked. As it turns out, no one could figure out how it works.

>>61554247
>too retarded to remember
This makes no sense, I didn't even know what programming was during those days. Am I a retarded for being younger than you? Are you then retarded for not remembering the Napoleonic Wars?

>>61554517
What do you mean they couldn't figure out how it worked

>>61554569
you must be 18 or older to post on 4chan

>>61554646
I'm 26, started coding at around 18. Besides C/C++ I never had huge portability issues with a language.

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>>61554569
>retarded for not membering 'poleonic wars?
yesh

The JVM is very useful if you don't like java pick one of the many other languages or stop being a double nigger and learn C, Python, and Lisp

It was a good idea back in the 90s, it became even better with HotSpot.
Too bad it has been stagnating for the past 20 years.

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Java is a good idea

>>61553904
it made sense in the 90s.

I mean, if you wanted to develop a desktop application your only options were vendor specific, like win32. Which is and was utter garbage.

Java ran on anything and was easy to use, what was not to love?

Of course, sometime later people realize that its inheritance model sucked big balls.

>>61553904
Java is a good idea if you need to hire an army of pajeets to shit out code until it works.
It's one of the safest languages I can think of.

The JVM is top notch. If you don't like Java, use another language like Kotlin, Scala or Clojure.

>>61553904
>g defending java
where is all this reasonableness coming from?

>>61553904
i ironically prefer it to C++ if i need to do OOP

>>61558452
C++ is crap at any OOP beyond encapsulation

Hello I've read "Head First Java" and a book by Barnes and by Liang but I actually haven't programmed even one real Programm.

How can I become a real programmer so I can move to Australia?

>>61558513
Memorize the entire API, write a rocket launch program, and then shill your portfolio

>>61554569
He's not providing his valuable opinion about Napoleonic wars, unlike you.

>>61558467
>implying C++ has encapsulation in the first place

>>61558733
STL does a decent job of it.

>>61556040
Is this about lack of multiple inheritance?

>>61558749
STL is implemented in C++, and since C++ does not actually provide encapsulation (although pretends it does), STL doesn't either.

It was intended for embedded systems programming and represented the idea of unlimited portability across any CPU/other hardware. He wanted something that required no changes in the program for it to run elsewhere, iirc

What's a good book for learning Java if I already know programming basics but not OOP basics?

>>61558921
>It was intended for embedded systems programming
Bullshit.

>>61558928
It was a trip but I learned Java from going through Minecraft decompiled source code (MCP) and making changes to that.

>>61559063
>I learned Java from going through Minecraft
Don't do that btw

>>61559063
This is some Poe's law shit.

>>61559140
>>61559144
It was like a logical puzzle. I love those.
In the end, Minecraft is not as badly written as many consider it to be.

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>>61553904
apparently he did

the intent was to have code that could run on any platform that had a java virtual machine

idk if the implementation could have been better, or if "vm code" is naturally slow

>>61559255
Java is not that much slower than C++ and is faster than plenty other languages.

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=java&lang2=gpp

And of course CPU is very often not the bottleneck in the first place.

>>61559063
>>>61558921 (You)
>>It was intended for embedded systems programming
>Bullshit.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/overview/javahistory-index-198355.html

First use was even on an embedded system

It being originally for embedded development is a well accepted fact, just Google it

>>61559343
>>First use was even on an embedded system
>>It was intended for embedded systems programming
Those are not really the same are they?

Java itself is shit


Now if you actually had any experience with Java besides Intro to Programming you'd have used one of the enterprise frameworks such as Spring

The language is bad, the overall ecosystem is fucking amazing and extremely efficient if you're actually doing professional work

>>61559376

>"Java was developed by James Gosling at Sun Microsystems (now part of Oracle Corp.) and released in 1995. Gosling's original concept was the creation of a robust language that could be used to write portable embedded applications. Over the years, Java has found considerable success as a means of running a program (an "applet") in a browser. This enabled developers to run sophisticated applications, hosted on web pages, that would run on any browser on any platform."

Given that there are countless sources to support my view and none to support yours, it's easy to know who is right here

>>61559466
I'm still not convinced.

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>>61559757

Don't know what else to say

>>61559900
It's okay. You can't win everything.

>>61553904
java is a language that accomplishes none of its design goals

java is supposed to be portable -- except every serious java application comes wrapped in custom scripts to correctly set up its environment and execute it for each target platform

java's memory model is supposed to relieve you from managing memory -- except every serious java system requires GC tweaking, custom allocators, allocation tweaking, and throws exceptions when you tweak it wrong

java's programming model is supposed to codify and simplify good system design -- except java is notorious for abstruse concepts and long symbol names

with other flawed languages like python, javascript etc. i can at least understand what positive features attract people to those languages. java, however, is an unfathomable pile of shit. it does nothing right

A man by the name of James Gosling.

>>61553904
It was the Go of its time
http://www.paulgraham.com/javacover.html (2001)

>>61560271
Be sure to not miss http://www.paulgraham.com/trevrejavcov.html

>>61560197
>except every serious java application comes wrapped in custom scripts to correctly set up its environment and execute it for each target platform
That means it /is/ portable, m8. Do you think you can port GTA V from Windows to Linux by writing the right initialization shell script?

>every serious java system requires GC tweaking, custom allocators, allocation tweaking
That means it /does/ relieve you from managing memory. Do you think you can fix memory leaks in C++ by adding -Xmx2048m when you run it?

Jesus christ

>>61553904
Java was literally about to destroy Microsoft because it could be run independent of OS type. Until they developed for Java and ruined their APIs

>>61559388
I was expecting some answers to this


So, serious question

To those of you disliking java, did you ever use it in an enterprise context


If you did, I'd be really interested in hearing what you used and why you think it's shit even in enterprise

because I'd rather kill myself than replace a functioning java system with some hipster nodejs bullshit

>>61558753
Inheritance is a bad idea in the first place. Shit is easier to test if you do dependency injection.
Aggregate rather than inherit.

>>61560685
>Inheritance is a bad idea in the first place. Shit is easier to test if you do dependency injection.

How are those two statements related

>>61560706
I think xe means "composition".

>>61560383
>"java does it differently, therefore java fixes it"
the fact that you think fucking bisecting to the correct heapsize parameter on a per-workload basis "fixes memory leaks" shows that you have truly chugged a ridiculous kool-aid. that's insanely burdensome and idiotic, irregardless of whether C++ memory management was also shit in the 90s

java is the only language on earth where i can download stable code, apply it to correctly formed input, it throws a GC exception, and i get told that's expected behavior, and that i'm supposed to double a parameter and repeat until it can finish running

java is a phantom tollbooth language where every solution creates new problems to solve and therefore endless work, like milo moving a pile of sand back and forth, one grain at a time, with tweezers. there are entire systems -- caches, databases, and serialization pipelines -- whose only performance benefit comes from storing java-specific object representations that needn't otherwise exist. enterprise doesn't love java because it solves problems; enterprise loves java because it creates problems for enterprise to continue solving, endlessly

>>61561225
>enterprise doesn't love java because it solves problems; enterprise loves java because it creates problems for enterprise to continue solving


I know you think that that's a super deep and witty statement to just randomly throw out, but purely from a logical perspective that does not seem very likely considering capitalism and businesses being jews

>>61561404
Hill-climbing algos are Jews, but not very good Jews.

How do I convince the company I work at to switch to Kotlin

>>61561500
Ask them to trial it on a tiny project. How the project to people who matter and explain the benefits.

>>61554222
That doesn't even run the garbage collector, it just suggests that the jvm "should" run it.

>>61558928
*Thinking in Java* by Bruce Eckel. Previous editions are available for free.

http://www.mindviewinc.com/Books/TIJ4/

>>61553904
Java came from a forgone time in computing. Computers were not fast enough to run scripts at an effective speed. Java was the cross compatible solution that ran faster than a script. It worked. But as computers became more powerful scripting started to become good enough speed wise. If you don't care about speed why even bother with Java. If you do care about speed use c/c++. However, Java was taught heavily in schools because schools thought it would be the future. It was not. Java was great at solving a problem that does not exist anymore.

>>61559144
This nigga is in every thread talking about Poe's Law.

>>61562786
Java is still the next fastest thing to C++ or C, and requires a lot less hassle to program. I'm a huge C++ defender, but even I have to admit that my Java productivity eclipses my C++ productivity by a factor of at least 3. Not to mention that debugging C++ is a nightmare. Debugging Java code is easier than writing actually good C++ code. Use C++ if you have no time constraints. Use Java if you need a solid program in a short timeframe that's only 80% as fast.

>>61563368
Java can actually be faster than C / C++ in certain circumstances (i.e. CPU intensive work that doesn't do too much stuff on the heap)