>Be 55 >Opposed to UBI because "People will become

>>61448642
Gas chambers, I suppose.

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>>61448642
Things will sort themselves out.
Look for signs of edge in the field.

>>61448684
Edge intensifies.

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>>61448693

>why wont the government give me free money so i dont need to work and i can play minecraft all day

>>61449192
Enjoy your capitalism post automation, shill.

>tfw I have a job I love and I would work there for free if I didn't have to worry about food and shelter
I don't even understand the "the only thing keeping everyone from being NEETs is the constant threat of homelessness and starvation" argument. Universal basic income is a requirement for ethical employment.

>>61448642
>>Working the same job since he left high school
This is much more of a societal issue than is currently recognized. This is not the general nature of humans or a good model for civilization. And if anyone tells you that's "how it always was" they are wrong. Doing the same thing every single day of the year is a 20th century anomaly.

>>61448642
Do they illegals get UBI too, knowing you lefty Cucks, you would give it to them too

>>61449464
Yeah imagine being so blind that you can't see the benefits a post scarcity society would enjoy.

>>61449494
The*
I'm not illiterate I swear

>>61449494
I come from an island nation so I can't answer that for you. By the way right wing economists have supported UBI or similar modified schemes too.

>>61449494
All immigration should be legal. If too many Mexicans are coming over the border, maybe we should stop making Mexico such a shithole.

>>61449583
Good luck convincing conservatives that treating people like shit doesn't automatically grant you a place in heaven. It seems obvious that the opposite is true but their policies beg to differ.

>>61449877
Ah yes, just what we need, more fedora tippers to tell Christians the meaning of their religion. I bet you have some hot bible quotes you drop on facebook to btfo those "stupid flyover proles that don't like gays and unlimited immigration"

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go back to your containment site

>>61449993
>Implying that I'm not Christian

Baptised as Catholic soon after birth m8

>>61450082
Baptised as Catholic or practicing? We have more lapsed Catholics here than you can shake a stick at.

>>61450124
Not practising but I understand the Christian perspective relatively well.

>>61448684
No, we shall invent pushing and shoving robots to push and shove people down the stairs

>>61448642
>What do we do with these trolls come automation day?
Nothing. Ironically, I bet that most, if not virtually all of the people who are against UBI will eventually find themselves dependent on it.

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in the future everyone will shill each other for soros bucks.

>>61448642
sacrifice to the bots so we may remain in their favor.

>>61450353
UBI is a feel good meme for Bougie tecnocrats. The only people who take it seriously are small souled bugmen and redditors, but I repeat myself.

>>61450388
>>61450388
That would basically be income?

>>61450462
Tell that to the cunts running tests on UBI. By all accounts it seems to work better than the majority of benefit systems.

>>61449494
>implying everyone that thinks UBI could be viable is part off the leftist boogyman

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>>61450934
>running small localised tests means it will work on an entire country!

>>61449500
The benefits are moral hazards to Puritans, whose moral outlook is feels-driven and sadomasochistic.

>>61450220
UBI is the terrible secret of space.
It makes so much more sense now.

>>61451000
>implying that any action that doesn't solve all problems isn't worth doing

>>61451000
>success in every small pilot scheme is evidence of it not being worthwhile to persue in larger schemes

>>61451000
You realise Stallman would probably support UBI right?

>>61448642
The people who caused the automation will be killed too, especially since they aren't he most physically gifted people.

>>61451073
What the fuck are you on about schizo?

>>61448642
UBI will never be implemented. The cost of things will just move asymptotically closer to zero. But human desires will always be infinite, and resources will always be finite.

>>61451108
We're not talking about the United States of retards. Move along child.

>>61451115
Ok. Let's propose that one decides to not include a superpower in that arrangement. What happens when people start breeding like rabbits? What happens when refugees/lazy people come in nearly unlimited numbers to get a piece of that action? You'll use robots to stop them? Because then you'll just get people using EMPs to keep doing whatever they want.

>>61451168
>What happens when people start breeding like rabbits
They don't, if you still have a functional educational system and you don't pay them extra to reproduce.
>What happens when refugees/lazy people come in nearly unlimited numbers to get a piece of that action
Physical removal.

>>61451168
You're talking about this like it's done on a global scale. I think you've misunderstood UBI.

>>61451223
>They don't, if you still have a functional educational system and you don't pay them extra to reproduce.
"Sex feels better without a condom, and if we have kids, the government will just provide for them!"

>Physical removal.
How?

>You're talking about this like it's done on a global scale. I think you've misunderstood UBI.
If you have something people want, they are going to try and take it. And when an EMP can kill the entirety of your labor and/or military force, you're in trouble.

>>61451256
are you suggesting that UBI for adults would revoke all parental responsibility for children?

>>61451256
Spoken like a true ameritard. Going to be good when Russia and China fuck you in the arse and you cunts stop acting so self important.

>>61451278
Don't take the b8 m8.

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>>61451223
>They don't

thanks to the power of baby killing

>>61451278
It would eliminate all financial responsibility, yes.

>>61451293
He is baiting but people actually think this.

>>61451324
current welfare state rewards having more kids UBI literally gives kids nothing

>>61449494
No. Unless their country of origin offers the same level of UBI.

>>61451359
Stop feeding the trolls.

>>61451256
>"Sex feels better without a condom, and if we have kids, the government will just provide for them!"
Not how it works. Having children is a major responsibility, and in educated nations they are aware of that. No idiot is going to churn out 6 kids just to be on the government dime, except gypsies and white trash.

>>61451409
>gypsies and white trash.

ie uneducated people.

>>61451425
>ie uneducated people.
It has been proven time and time again that educating women brings the birth-rate down considerably. Never mind the men; educate the women.

>>61452021
I was agreeing with you

>>61451256
>"Sex feels better without a condom, and if we have kids, the government will just provide for them!"
>Unironically thinking people think like that.

Wew lad

>>61452548
What is actually going through their minds after kid#2?

>>61452562
Probably trying to fuck away the hunger and boredom. Being poor sucks and you do anything to take your mind off it. Unfortunately poor people tend to be the least well equipped when it comes to sex ed and the means to buy "luxury" items like contraceptives.

I'm so ready for a UBI.

I'm 26 and i'm already fucking tired of working for a system that enslaves us financially.

People will argue that a UBI is enslavement of itself... but I wouldn't be forced into a place I don't want to be just to work for some money like a starving rat in a complex maze system.

I honestly think Hillary Clinton was almost pure evil, but I feel like with her the idea of a UBI would of became a real thing by 2020.

>>61453476
Well the choice is either
>Be enslaved by a government that you vote for
>be enslaved by a corporation that you have no stake in or has no responsibility to you at all and sees you as a disposable serf

>>61453476
>I honestly think Hillary Clinton was almost pure evil, but I feel like with her the idea of a UBI would of became a real thing by 2020.

Why do you Americans think your right-wing neo-liberal candidates are even vaguely interested in pushing for progressively policy? That cunt is perfectly happy with the status quo and would have tried to maintain it not disrupt it. The sooner you cunts get rid of gerrymandering and FPTP the better.

>>61448642
What I love about all these rich socialist jews who love UBI is that they have no plan to make it work yet still keep promoting it. Everyone apparently should be forced to give up their wealth except for theirs of course.

>>61453544
>progressively policy

I meant progressive policy.

>>61453548
I am OP and there is less than 10,000 Jews in my country so I have no idea what you're going on about. Probably best that you take you (((antisemitism))) back to >>>/pol/ anyway

>>61453576
>It's just a coincidence goyim that UBI is being shilled hard by the elites

>>61453663
Only in your shitty country

>>61453544
With her, war with russia would have become a thing by 2020. And technically the conscription would have given everyone an income but that isn't quite what UBI is about.

>>61453667
>There is literally nothing wrong with elitist jews promoting UBI
You've been trained well, very good goyim.

>>61453709
I'll repeat it again cause you're fucking thick. THERE ARE NO JEWS IN MY COUNTRY.

>>61453723
You just said there were less than 10,000

You realize that they'll probably start exterminating the NEETs, like most of /g/, before nationalized UBI is a thing.

>>61453743
0.2083334%

Truly a great threat.

>>61453780
Maybe in shitholes like the US but not in my country.

>>61453816
Globalists and mega elites are among the many who promote universal.basic income. If they want it, it can't be good. It's something of complete fantasy right now because nobody has a plan that can work.

>>61453827
And what country do you live in?

>>61453890
Nice try zuckerburg. Take your data mining back to Facebook.

>>61453916
>I live in a great nation that would have ubi perfectly work and not fall to degeneracy, but I'm not telling you what it is.

>>61453948
I did not say UBI would work currently. ATM my country has turned into a tax haven. It would take a change of government and the undoing of decades of neo-liberal policy.

>>61453875
>Globalists and mega elites are among the many

Just in: globalists and elites and people to and have personal opinions!

>>61454172
*are people too

Fucking phone posting

>>61453663
Unironically being this paranoid.

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Whose going to be able to afford housing if robots cause mass unemployment? The cost didn't seem to drop much even after the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis.

>>61449583
kys nigger

>>61449583
you make mexico less of a shithole by not encouraging their top 10% to come here

>>61457379
also a great idea

>>61453816
population numbers aren't important
how much wealth do they control?

>>61457042
Capitalism doesn't exist post-scarcity.

>>61448642
What's UBI?

when i google search for it i gets confusing results.

>>61457585
Universal Basic Income

>>61457608
oh wow, that's fucking stupid

>initiate ubi
>government must print money in order to pay it
>dollar value depreciates until ubi is worthless, jobs begin to pay way more to compensate
>neets are still broke

>>61457642
you're fucking stupid.
>>61457646
more like
>people choose careers they're actually good/happy doing
>people at risk of suffering abuse from abusive peers/family now have the funds and means to escape their hell
>people can choose to become educated in their passion rather than worrying about where their next meal will come from
>people end up with a huge surplus of cash
>people end up happy as fuck
>happy people spend their money more
>economy flourishes

>>61453875
bullshit globalists are the ones fighting against it tooth and nail, because their mob run welfare state will get the axe. no more mooching niggers popping out 20 babies just for bigger welfare cheques their whole lives, now you get a gov cheque as well as them (provided they're citizens of course)

>>61453548
>no plan
there's plenty of plans, abolish the welfare/social assistance programs almost entirely (leave addiction centres, hospitals, disability intact)
then let the government go a bit in debt as the transition takes place, remove some military spending as a peaceful nation doesn't need to spend billions of dollars on fucking over whoever the u.s demands. let those greedy cocksuckers fight their own fake wars on their own. motherfucking sons of bitches should be sued to bankruptcy for bringing nato into never ending wars under the guise of false flag attacks.
got a little side tracked there

but the extra spending power and the effect of having a healthy people with tonnes of spending power will only be a good thing.

>>61458502
>decent thread is sage bombed
this is a very real issue, yet mods here would rather have pajeet shill threads and faggot circle jerking rather than an actual discussion, neat.

>>61458545
>yet mods here would rather have pajeet shill threads and faggot circle jerking rather than an actual discussion, neat.
Not every board needs to be /pol/.

>>61459083
this isn't a pol thread
this is about technological advances and how to deal with the fallout from such advances, in this peticular case not a very good fallout.

>>61451223
>They don't, if you still have a functional educational system and you don't pay them extra to reproduce.
Why would they studying they have guaranteed income? Many people across the world are okay with good enough and they'll raise a dozen kids who think the same

>>61453476
>pro-tpp
>she'll implement UBI!
What

https://alrenous.blogspot.com/2016/05/basic-income-impossibility-theorem.html

>>61460143
>clickbait
why do faggots do this?
aint nobody gon click your bait links, aint nobody gon believe your bullshit blog fallacies neither

so it's okay to become nearly $20 in debt over several never ending wars (drugs, terrorism)

but feeding and sheltering your citizens is too much?

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>robots build houses
when will they do this on other planets preceeding our arrival?
cough cough nasa pls listen

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>>61460092
>mandatory K-12 just magically disappears
>because basic income guarantee
/pol/ seems more suited for your understanding of cause and effect, and your inability to see the world as it is rather than as the collection of your own priors.

>>61460261
Pic related, to save google the trouble of serving up this shite:
>On the margin, someone will stop working.
Yet, somehow, when UBI happens, people tend to work a few more hours on average because UBI enables them to do so, for example, by providing them with a car instead of depending on others for a ride, or providing them the ability to hire a babysitter instead of leaving work early. The rest of the muh blog post can be dismissed as the usual right-wing argumentation to cherry-pick the higher-order effects, let alone the facts.

>>61461047
Yes. How will there be the drama of muh competition unless society is graded on a curve and some people are tortured pour encourager les autres?

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>>61461047
americans hate the poor, even if they themselves are poor. they often delude themselves into thinking they are "middle class" because they can actually afford to eat two meals a day and maybe have an iphone (on credit, of course)

>>61461316
if you pay taxes on everything, having poor people (you know, those who don't work even within the current system) with some spending power, the economy will thrive from their spending.

>>61461047
>nearly $20 in debt
lol $20 trillion it's supposed to be

>>61461419
>if you pay taxes on everything, having poor people (you know, those who don't work even within the current system) with some spending power, the economy will thrive from their spending.
True, but Puritan sadomasochism is the sensibility at the root of the West. The economy is just the excuse that people use to justify that sensibility and will be discarded as an argument whenever it fails to serve that purpose. If the economy tanking would serve their proto-feudal ideals better, they will argue for that, perhaps indirectly through war or other boondoggle. See >>61461395

>>61461316
>>mandatory K-12 just magically disappears
Going to school isn't studying. Studying is studying. You go to school to be educated but just going doesn't mean you come out educated, otherwise America would have no problems with certain poverty and welfare prone demographics

>>61461785
>functional educational system
>why would they study
Because they stay in mandatory K-12 until they can pass, dipshit. It's not like they can use the muh job excuse to get out. A functional educational system precludes social promotion.
>certain poverty and welfare prone demographics
Shift your goalposts right on back to the alt-right containment board, Ronald. The only welfare prone demographics are (((muh great men))) and you slob their knobs daily.

>>61451108
>The cost of things will just move asymptotically closer to zero.
I agree. This is what makes a UBI even more feasible; the prices of goods and services come down due to dramatic increases in efficiency, which means it would take less money to survive = less wealth would need to be redistributed.
No matter how cheap goods and services are, with the exception of being completely free, it still takes some level of income to actually purchase these products.

>But human desires will always be infinite, and resources will always be finite.
First of all, not all humans are the same, though. There are plenty of people who are fine with living a mediocre life, especially if they are given a comfortable life with no work from their end.
Even though there are people out there, who do want as much as they can get, basic human needs are still finite: food, shelter, basic necessities, and basic entertainment.

>>61462209
>Because they stay in mandatory K-12 until they can pass
Wow if you were in charge of our education system we could fix America in a generation!

>>61449458
Ok? Thank you, kike.

>>61448642
>tfw you can't work one summer for entire tuition costs and house downtown
fuck boomers

>>61457424
i thought only their rapists and murderes come over to the US? which is it?

>>61463111
Those are the illegals.

>>61461109
sum1 post more robutts building things

>>61449466
>Doing the same thing every single day of the year is a 20th century anomaly.
Are you intentionally trying to be stupid or is that just natural for you? Because humans have been doing this for thousands of years. It's not something that has only just been created in the last 100 years.

>>61463470
>Because humans have been doing muh jobs for thousands of years.
The bourgeiosie aren't even human.
The daily grind has only been so since radical specialization came into vogue alongside industrialization. Before that, people took time off to attend to the cycles of nature through sowing, reaping, clearing, husbanding, or mending whatever tack needed mending.

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>>61448642

>Think that UBI is an attainable thing

>Believe in the logical fallacy of infinite growth

>Believe that automation can sustain first world standards of living

Automation does not mean freedom. Automation is going to come with A.I. controlled vehicles. With the introduction of A.I. vehicles ownership will become something only afforded to the most affluent. Freedom of movement will become a luxury and privilege. Habitable areas will be controlled under agenda 21.

Mass immigration from the third world to the first world is being encouraged to create social tensions and upheaval. A distraction to prevent any organized resistance to automation and the restriction of rights.

The logistical realities of society and the limits of resources on this planet mean that only a small fraction of the planet can live at first world standards. Automation will lead to an attempt to control the population before scarcity causes mass upheaval within first world societies.

Automation is an attempt at controlled depopulation. It does not mean an easy life, it means life that will be extinguished if you cannot be more useful than the machines designed to replace you.

>>61463722
That's where you're wrong. People specializing in crafts have performed those jobs every day, very year, from an early age, too. A baker in ancient roman times spent their night/day baking bread, stonemasons were busy building roads and buildings, fishermen were out on their boat all day/night fishing.

If anything, the 20th and 21st century changed all that with compulsory schooling up to the age of 12, and the later, the age of 17/18 (depending on country/state). In addition to that, it's incredibly easy to change professions these days, as opposed to previous years, where specialized workers were essentially shoe-horned into the role for life.

>>61464073
>Think that UBI is an attainable thing
Being so bad at math they don't think UBI would work.

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>>61464090

>Believes in the logical fallacy of infinite growth

By mid century the third world is going to be flooding every corner of this planet as they fail to contain their own burgeoning masses.

Our systems will fail as we cannot provide the resources demanded. Meat production will give way to another agricultural revolution as we cannot sustain the waste of food, water, and land dedicated to it's production.

Even more pressure will be put on already critically depleted phosphorus supplies which are nearly exhausted. We will lost the ability to easily produce fertilizer and will only recover phosphorus through intensive agriculture.

As humanity is faced with that ordeal fishing stocks will continue to collapse and die out through over exploitation and ocean acidification.

Resource scarcity will cause global conflict and turmoil. Even with unlimited energy you cannot get around the hard limits set on humanity by the environment we live in.

Automation is not going to feed the unwashed masses that will do anything to survive. UBI will only encourage further over exploitation of resources.

>>61464073
Really depends on the government of you country.

>>61464209
>Even more pressure will be put on already critically depleted phosphorus supplies which are nearly exhausted. We will lost the ability to easily produce fertilizer and will only recover phosphorus through intensive agriculture.

Please stop talking out your arse.

>>61464305

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_phosphorus

>>61464209
>UBI will only encourage further over exploitation of resources.
Kill all the usurers and all the muh innovators who need us to buy crap instead of life needs, then. No bag limit!

>>61464371
Are you still in primary school or are you just expecting me to take Wikipedia seriously?

>>61464371
Your link literally states proposed workarounds. Did you even fucking read it?

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>>61453529
>Implying voting even matters.

That's US only bucko

>>61464559
Not sure if b8 or just really thick. The US has one of the worst political systems in the developed world.

>>61448829
Kill yourself cuck, you'll hang for supporting the jews by opposing universal basic income. Weigh UBI and automation, whites will be free. We will never have to work again. All the cucks who oppose it will be hanged.

>>61464598
Get help schizo.

>>61464516

Since when have proposed workarounds that require responsibility and large amounts of work been taken as law?

Blind faith in humanity is going to leave you all sorely disappointed.

The common and expected trajectory for this type of scenario is humanity doing too little too late.

>>61448642
>what do we do with these trolls
>we
You just said the robots will do everything for us, they'll know what to do
automated thinking lads

Fucking retards, who the hell is going to pay for UBI in the first place?

>>61464501

I'm expecting you to come up with an argument that disproves infinite growth as a logical fallacy.

You cannot have infinite growth in a system with finite resources. UBI coupled with automation is either going to be used as a tool of enslavement to have controlled depopulation or if it is not used for that purpose but instead to spur on and facilitate even more consumption then it will only accelerate a natural and catastrophic population correction.

If you look at UBI and automation from a logistical perspective it ends in failure.

>>61448642
>Thinks young people just need to show initiative to get a good job and house.

aka you dont want to work hard for it just like every dumb shit Millennial.

>>61465745
boomer spotted. day of the nap is coming.

UBI is not needed yet. It should be fairly far off in the future; probably by the time you and I are beginning to retire.

Kids definitely can't find a good job straight out of high school anymore, but receiving a living wage is no where near out of scope for the average person just coasting by on autopilot.

>>61465700
I dunno, nobody knows it seems yet everyone acts like UBI is the 2nd coming of christ.

>>61465700
>pay for
>implying money is finite

>>61465745
Why work hard for it, when we can just kill off all the moralistic Puritans, like we should have done any time over the past 400 years, and drink their milkshake? Literally nothing of value is lost.

>>61465799
Do you honestly think money can be printed infinitely without consequences? Are you 12?

>>61465700
>Implying post automation UBI will be monetary instead of guaranteed food and shelter.

You don't seem t understand that when you're not paying people to farm/mine/make shit resources start to cost very little.

>>61465862
Reminder yourself of the voting groups who are going to vote for mark zuckenberg for UBI in 2020.

>>61465862
See, you conservatards keep reifying your ideals and pretending that they really exist, and get tripped up when there are phenomena in the real world that completely destroy the foundations of your argument that you erroneously believe are facts existing outside of your fever dreams.
Like the fact of taxes, nigger. The whole fucking POINT of taxes is to destroy money that has no real goods to chase. Are you 5?
>aspiring capitalist
Yep.

>>61465979
Fuck (((Zuckerberg))) you major-party cum-guzzler. Your relevance is approaching nil.

>>61465979
I support UBI but honestly I don't think anyone is really stupid enough to fall for that cunts smugness and lies.

>>61465799

Why do you think that resources are infinite? Do you really think that automation and UBI will be able to sustain the majority who are already interested in nothing but consumption and reproduction? Does it make sense to accelerate our exploitation of finite resources just because we can?

Is it more realistic to have the expectation that if the government is the sole provider of your resources that it will come to the inevitable conclusion that some lives are worth much more than others.

It's more realistic to assume that if the government is the provider then it will either begin to control reproductive rights and who has a right to limited resources or it dooms itself to scarcity, turmoil and an eventual population correction.

>>61466016
This is the same group that was going to vote for hillary because she posted star wars memes on twitter and she was a female.

>>61466011
>>>/pol

Fuck off to your containment board antisemite

>>61466035
True. Americans really are beyond stupid I guess.

>>61448642
Robots will kill them

>>61466034
>Why do you think that resources are infinite
Where did I give any indication I thought so? The point is that your exclusive proprietary control over resources is basically irrelevant to their existence or needful exploitation.
>interested in nothing but consumption and reproduction
Don't project /pol/ onto others.
>Does it make sense to accelerate our exploitation of finite resources
I don't know, why don't you ask (((Wall Street)))? Arguably, it's better to pay people not to turn finite resources into useless consumer crap.
>Is it more realistic to have the expectation that if the government is the sole provider of your resources that it will come to the inevitable conclusion that some lives are worth much more than others.
Shut up, /pol/. We the guvmint now, and so are you if you would take your master's cock out of your mouth for two seconds and get some oxygen up in your cranium.

>>61466041
That's not funny.

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>>61466069
What if they're loli robots and they're cute and want to be productive for their onii-chans?

>>61466116
>loli robots

Please leave pedo.

>>61466011
Sorry, I don't understand your inane comments.

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>>61466152
Loli robots are the future like it or not

>>61466016
I don't know. Plenty of people still use Facebook, even after he called them dumb fucks. That's what they are. Dumb fucks.

>>61466109

Believing that UBI can work is indication enough that you believe in infinite resources.

The vast majority of humans are interested in nothing more than consumption and reproduction. That's not a projection it's a fact. In all the writhing mass of humanity few are truly creators, curators and protectors.

What you propose is enabling a broken system to become even more broken. Where people are fed and given the means to consumption for the sake of consumption despite contributing nothing but more mouths to the system.

If you think Wall Street is bad why would you want to enable the concept of infinite growth even more?

If the government is the sole provider of your resources then it will begin to place value on some lives more than others. It has nothing to do with politics. The people that do nothing but consume and breed will be fodder in the face of people who continue to create or maintain systems.

If UBI is implemented eventually those individuals are going to take utmost priority as the system grinds itself into dust.

It ends one of two ways. Depopulation by means of eliminating net drains on resources or depopulation by catastrophic correction as humanity burns up it's reserves in the name of consumption.

None of you here has any arguments as usual.

I see only a bunch of lazy uninspired leeches who wan't a world bereft of responsibility even if it means enslavement or annihilation.

>>61466275
>None of you here has any arguments
>has
retard

>>61466275
Truth.

>>61466275
What will happen when resources are ran out and everyone is still on UBI? WW3?

>>61466305
ha, he had a type! got em

>>61466275
>Oh boy am I smart, everyone else is subhuman compared to my staggering intellect.

Why do your posts read like a 14 year old's social studies essay?

>>61466322

There will be turmoil long before the resources truly run out. People will turn on their governments and each other.

It will be a world war in the sense of vultures picking at a carcass.

>>61466275
>In all the writhing mass of humanity few are truly creators, curators and protectors.
>muh Great Man theory
Whatever dismal so-called philosophy you're reciting has made you unable to actually consider how people get to where they are.
>Where people are fed and given the means to consumption for the sake of consumption despite contributing nothing but more mouths to the system.
Please, give us more of your dismal 18th-century British classism. Better yet, don't.
They are given SOME, not all means to consume because the nation's collective labors have entitled them to it. People like you who seek to withhold it from them just to turn more nature into consumer goods are frankly retarded.

All of you fucking autists who have no other reason to work than being threatened with starvation have nothing to do with this discussion. You will die alone and parasitic no matter what system is in place.

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Hey morons, UBI is being shilled heavily by silicon valley neoliberals as a way to placate the plebs and prevent them from stopping immigration replacement.

Infinite economic growth and muh GDP is a pyramid scheme and a lack of jobs will be resolved peacefully by the fact that first world countries are undergoing a decline in population from the post world war baby boom.

UBI will also wreck society - all a politician will have to do is promise more gibs and they'll be elected and allowed to do whatever the fuck they want.

>>61466347

Why do you project and insert claims that I never made. My entire premise rest on resources not being infinite. That's not some claim to genius, it's common sense.

>>61466382
>Hey morons, UBI is being shilled heavily by silicon valley neoliberals
That doesn't mean we have to be placated.
>UBI will also wreck society - all a politician will have to do is promise more gibs
That doesn't mean we have to believe them or even respect their office.

>>61466393
>resources not being infinite.
No shit, sherlock. And you think that, just because people stop fearing the sack, that resources will just up and vanish?

>>61466359

Where did I say that I want to deny people for the purpose of turning more of nature into consumption?

My argument is that resources are not infinite and that UBI will spur consumption for the sake of consumption and that in the process the government will place more value on some lives over others.

At least people who are working to feed themselves are still contributing. What happens when the consumers greatly outnumber the producers? What happens when you remove incentive to do anything but simply exist?

>>61466422
You're literally arguing against a strawman. UBIs have been shown to improve productivity not reduce it.

>>61466416

When you enable consumption for the sake of consumption and remove any incentive for most people to aspire to anything aside from consuming and making more consumers you accelerate the exploitation of already finite resources that are already scarce.

The problems I am speaking of are all long term and will be consequences of a society that consumes in the name of consumption.

>>61466444

Increased productivity, which means more consumption for the sake of consumption. Which means more rapid exploitation of resources.

A good thing only if you believe in infinite growth.

>>61466422
>What happens when the consumers greatly outnumber the producers?
>>61466467
>Increased productivity, which means more consumption for the sake of consumption

>Oh I didn't mean that. I was just pretending to be stupid.

>>61466451
>muh puritan work ethic
You think repeating your crappy Calvinist claptrap is going to make it true?
>you accelerate the exploitation of already finite resources that are already scarce.
YES TELL ME AGAIN ABOUT CELL PHONES AND OTHER CONSUMER ELECTRONICS THAT LAST TWO YEARS AND CAN'T BE REPAIRED BECAUSE REASONS
>consequences of a society that consumes in the name of consumption.
You seem to be highly resistant to the consideration that there will still be things to do and still be workers to do them. However, you think we owe you or your fucking imaginary friend our muh aspirations and sheeeit because you're too fucking broken to just do what's needed and no more.

>>61466528

I'm highly resistant because you don't owe me or anyone anything, and neither do they owe you anything.

The problem is UBI is just another fantasy along with automation. When you allow people to contribute nothing to the system the system will invariably place value on the lives of people that do contribute.

You're all resistant to the fact that UBI will create it's own classism, it will create it's own puritans because there will be those that contribute and those that do nothing but consume, there will be many who wont have a choice and the government will not be your friend in this scenario.

You are asking to create a class of people that do in fact owe those that do work and contribute a great deal and when times become hard that class of people will suffer greatly.

You can all dream of neetopia but it's not going to play out that way. You think far too highly of humanity.

>>61451000
>Let's test it on the entire country with any prior tests!
One step at a time, faggot

The problem with UBI post automation is, what will people do with their lives? Right now everyone gets an education to be able to earn money. I'm sure there will always be those that persue knowledge, but what about the sub 100 iq chads? They'll only become more degenerate and ruin society. Idiocracy becomes a documentary.

But the problem doesn't go away with out UBI because automation is coming in either case. Corporations fire all workers and replace with robots. No one has money to buy the shit corporations are making so they go bankrupt and economy collapses.

In the end I think we're all fucked no matter what we do. Humans are self centered pieces of shit and don't realize their behavior causes problems until it's too late.

>>61466610
>fantasy along with automation

Boy are you in for a shock.

>>61466687

I know automation is coming, the fantasy is in automation being a net positive for humanity along with UBI. As I have said above. It ends with severe restrictions on rights, autonomy and controlled depopulation or it ends with accelerating our waste and an eventual catastrophic correction.

Can it be argued that a massive depopulation event today might be beneficial to the long term survival of life on this planet?
Is there any value in converting all available resources to the production and maintenance of more human lives?
Is there any value to preserving biodiversity and protection of nature?

>>61466760
Depends on your ethics.

>>61466805
Morals. Ethics are personal. Morals are social.

When I look at satellite images, I see that humans occupy large portions of habitable land. Their effects on the environment are clearly visible from space.
Driving around, you see houses, restaurants, freeways, and all the infrastructure needed to support a happy life for humans.
We are conditioned to think that the world is an amusement park to serve our fancy.
Advertisements encourage consumption.
I don't see any evidence of Civic responsibility to maintain this lifestyle. People want to continue to live traditional lives. We don't fully understand the tremendous cost involved in getting to this point.
Hopefully we can train people to stay home and burn as little fuel as possible.
People should be raised to believe that it is their duty to advance knowledge and contribute to society. We need to do a better job of steering them in the right direction.
Do your best, my fellow humans.

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>>61466855

>>61466892
And the right policy can ensure this happens.

>>61449192
not gonna lie, I enjoy being a neet

>>61469170
Really? I find it fucking depressing.