I work in a strartup-like environment and recently I've

>>60934995
Yes. React, Elm, Vue..

Plenty of options.

>>60935040
>React, Elm, Vue
I'm talking about an alternative to javascript all together. The javascript frameworks are still javascript.

>So people actually like using this language?
No, no they do not.

t. Javascript dev

why has javascript become the dominant web-dev tool?

>>60935964
Because pajeets

>>60936096

That's not a real answer. Why has it been unanimously adopted? What are the advantages to the people with enough money to dictate what's used by the codemonkey underlings?

>>60938010
They just use whatever is popular or recommended.

Like it or not JavaScript is powerful and works across a wide range of browsers and devices.

>>60934995
If you have a real backend like Spring or ASP.NET there's a lot of options.

>>60938010
There are reasons. Node and the V8 engine are the first thing that come to mind. There are things node does better than other server side languages like non blocking concurrecy.

Also a web dev. Mind you I hate JS. But I'm writing more of it every day. Some Stockholm syndrome is setting in.

>>60938046
You might not like it but this is what peak performance looks like

>>60934995
Flash

scala.js

>>60934995

If you come from LISP, JS is great.

If you come from C or Java, JS is weird.

File: 4tOKbwX.jpg (10KB, 500x154px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 500x154px

If you're so enlightened and better than everyone else using JavaScript use clojure

>>60938010
>What are the advantages to the people with enough money to dictate what's used by the codemonkey underlings?


Basically standards. More ubiquity = easier to find devs, lower prices for said devs since it's easier to learn.
Plus all the work that's been put into browsers to support JS. Node/V8.

It's not the perfect language but it's pretty ubiquitous and is better than having fragmentation between a few competing languages.


In the end what matters is what you make with it, not the language itself.

>>60934995
The *language* JavaScript is actually kind of beautiful. But, you mustn't hold it to the standards of other languages. It's not OO. It's not functional. It's its own unique language. Very expressive, very dynamic.

That said, 95% of JavaScript scripts are absolutely horrendous.

>>60934995
>Javascript is fucking terrible. Do people actually like using this language?

The universal truth I've learnt is that the more shit tier something is, the more trendy it becomes. I mean shit, people actually used MongoDB in production.

Look at how much Ruby/Python/et al projects now have people insisting they rewrite in Node.JS "because JavaScript".

>>60941057

This.

If you're coming form LISP, JS is pretty nice.
If you are a C or Java dev, JS looks weird.

When you start JS you have to "empty your cup" and learn the JS way of doing things. Many people try to use it in a C or Java way and fail.

But contemporary JS with Arrow functions and Promises is pretty neat.


>>60941078

NoSQL has it's place. If you don't understand when to use it instead of a RDBS, you are not a good programmer.

BTW the Node hype is already gone, Go is where the hipsters are at right now..

>>60934995
>I have to say, Javascript is fucking terrible

You don't know what fucking terrible is. Go look at some .jsp frontends sometime.

>>60941078
>MongoDB in production.
tell me about that... I still have to deal with that shit at work, because some genius picked it for relational data instead of using Postgre....

>>60941164
At least you don't have to deal with fucking proprietary shit like Oracle SQL and their special snowflake client packages and modules that need special snowflake compilation to work.

>>60941139
You can support NoSQL for certain use cases without supporting MongoDB.

Look up Go jobs in your area. You'd be lucky if there's one.

Hipsters on side projects are all over it but the most companies are still ramping up their "Node in production" strategy

>>60941078
>I mean shit, people actually used MongoDB in production.
Ubiquiti use it in their radio gear. Oh, the horror!

Startup owners are usually narcissists who have no clue about technology yet want to pretend they know something / better than the devs so they pick technologies that sound good to their feeble minds. It's sad really, the devs can never work with the right tools that they'd love to use

>>60941270
Most tech startup owners come from technology and developer backgrounds.

It is not their fault the average dev isn't smart enough to figure out how to use JS.

>>60941270
Do tell, what tool you YOU use for reactive data driven fronted scripting?

>>60941305
>isn't smart enough to figure out how to use JS

JavaScript apologist detected.

>>60941305
>he really thinks that
lmao
>>60941309
pure JS or jQuery

>>60941324
>jQuery

Direct DOM manipulation is disgusting.

>>60941316
javascript must really be an intellectual challenge to him for him to consider it something of intelligence haha

>>60941343
1GB tabs and 2s loading times are more disgusting though

>>60941316
>>60941324
Most people who rage on javascript do not appreciate its feature-set like the flexibility of a dynamic language, nor do they understand the usefulness of first class functions.

The real problem is that OO programmers just struggle with trying to do something outside of strict OOP.

>>60941438
nobody said anythin about javascript though, I love it and use it both on back-end and front-end

this is what im complaining about

https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2016-d3a717dd577f

>>60941438
It's a fucking godsend because Pajeet's can't do it well so companies all over the place are scrambling to hire Americans as they switch to agile development. Everybody can't wait to deprecate and get rid of all the busted old Java backends.

>>60934995
>o dynamically load content on a web page?
I don't understand, you can easily do something like this with just html and php, even in javascript it wouldn't be that intensive

>>60938503
>There are things node does better than other server side languages like non blocking concurrecy.

Not even remotely true. Pretty much every single main-stream language has the same concurrency primitives as Node, plus others.

>>60941475
But how will brainlets get jobs without JS frameworks?

>>60941139
Go is shit.

>>60941475
>PHP
Now go ahead and try to implement real authentication schemes in PHP scripts.

>>60941531
>OP asks "how can I do X?"
>respond Y can do X
>HAHA Y CANT DO Z THOUGH
Calm your autism.

>>60941576
I'm just saying there's a reason nobody uses PHP for serious web frontends and there's a reason Javascript is so ubiquitous. Basic auth doesn't cut it anymore.

>>60941447
>https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2016-d3a717dd577f

Oh no, a language is so popular and growing that new libraries are coming out on a weekly basis, the horror!

Javascript is the single fastest growing language on Github both by stars and repos. It is head and shoulders above its closest rival, Ruby. No one else comes close.

If you want, you can still do everything in Vanilla.js and eschew all the frameworks. You just have to miss out on being a hipster.

>>60941454
Java back-ends were always a mistake. I have never seen one that is ever any good. It almost made me hate the language, just going by how shitty and hacked-together some of the legacy .jsp apps can be.

>>60941606
As far as I'm aware there's no legal or technical basis for this claim. Provide evidence to support your asinine assertion.

>>60941626
The complaint wasn't about new libraries being there, the complaint was that dumb startup entrepeneurs wanting to feel like they know something too trying to impose shit tech on devs, i think you got so triggered by my comment that you failed to read the rest of it

>>60941663
You use the tools the company provides. By definition every technology choice is a 'imposing shit tech on devs'.


Your complaint is just straight up stupid. If the company wants a java backend you right a java backend, or quit. I have to do a lot of Python in my job, even though I would rather be writing in Clojure.

>>60941748
my original reply:
> the devs can never work with the right tools that they'd love to use
how does that exclude java or other tech?

im not surprised about the current state of dev when I look at your reading comprehension buddy

>>60941438
>>60941626
>>60941771

This is all bait. Noone who's actually used another language genuinely believes this.

>>60941626
>It almost made me hate the language, just going by how shitty and hacked-together some of the legacy .jsp apps can be.

Seems to me jsp is the only thing you've seen.

>>60934995
don't judge a language by it's framework

>>60941324
>pure JS or jQuery
Becomes a huge mess if you have lots of dynamic elements on a page.

>>60935078
Why would you want to replace the most important programming language in decades?

Old people, I swear.

>>60935089
/thread

>>60934995
I hate using it, whenever I can use ccs instead that's what I do

Types are like garlic and crosses to the average JavaScript Evangelist.

File: 1-I-3kbXzEIAPAPEGiMcAs0A.png (9KB, 720x290px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 720x290px

I'll use this thread to shill Elm.

Elm is a language that compiles to javascript for making dynamic websites with OCaml like syntax.

The workflow is similar to working with React.

..but you don't have to deal with runtime errors or shitty ass build tools like webpack or browserify. Elm comes with it's own build tools and the elm compiler makes sure your code doesn't have type errors.

...Also Elm generated pages are faster than React ones.

I've been using Elm for personal projects for the last 6 months and I'm very happy with the workflow.

c++ and web assembly

>>60941475
That would put too much load on the server and it would very slow.

use Typescript or elm