>Computer functions are just 0s and 1s that send messages

>>60864896
The botnet.

also galko a best gril

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>>60864896
The chosen ones don't entirely control organic life yet.

We can choose which neurons go on while computer systems don't have the power to change their state on their own

>>60864896
nothing

in the future people will be hospitalized and in comas for weeks at a time because some more-on web "dev"'s shitty web asm app has crashed they're brains'

>>60864896
Do you not understand how neurons work? They aren't binary, as in there are more than two states, they communicate using many different neurotransmitters

>>60864896
Creativity.

>>60865032
so what ur saying is computers are cds and our brains are vinyl

>>60864896
brainfunctions are a bit more complicated. For starters there is neuroplasticty, think of an fpga that reprogramms it self. Then there is brainchemistry which allows for complexer functions than just neurons"going on and off".

>>60865133
Yes actually

>>60864896
The brain is not digital but is analog. Data transmission is probably more like AM or FM radio than it is digital logic.

>>60864896
the brain is pretty parallel so intel and amd might be on to something with their cores

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>>60864896

>Not reading Godel Escher Bach

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>>60865032
could quantum computing solve the problem of multiple states?

>>60864896
>neurons going on and off that send messages
That is a seriously bad simplification, you are literally comparing millions of years of evolution from single celular living beings to what's probably the most complex neuronal network to ever come up in all of known science to a machine that does calculations, that's some old (and i do mean old as fuck) way of thinking the brain, between Buzsáki's research, studies on neuroplascity and fucking phenomenologist's hypothesis being being demosntrated as real by neuroscientists a LOT has happened to deny that comparison.

>>60864896
Brains are analog, not binary. Not to mention that neurons can have a non-specific number of connections, and they have been known to wrap around very, very large sections of the brain (IIRC some rat's brain was found to have like three neurons that wrapped all the way around). Plus, they seem to have a degree of fuzzy logic (inherent randomness).

>>60864896
Imagine if each of those switches in a brain was it's own computer, since each neuron is a cell with 3 billion base paired DNA, many small functioning parts that keep the cell active, and many possible chemical and electrical inputs that could alter its function.

The world wide web is a better example of a single consciousness. It could be very possible that the web does in fact have a singular consciousness.

>>60864896

we can have sex, machines can't.

>>60864896
>Brain functions are just neurons going on and off that send messages

That is such a gross oversimplification that it's literally wrong.

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>>60864896
Neurons have more than 2 states.
The circuitry itself is modified by the computations it performs.
Storage is randomly accessed because of similar things being put into memory.
Memory is in higher danger of corruption and deletion the shorter ago it was loaded.

>>60865434
>It could be very possible that the web does in fact have a singular consciousness.

You're aware of the memescape, correct?

>>60865617
Until we can prove something is conscious, or how consciousness works, the idea that the internet is conscious or other extremely complex, interconnected, things are conscious will remain very plausible.

>>60865638
I can prove that you're conscious because you know that you're reading this reply.

>>60864896
Organic life is organic for one thing

>>60865645
I already knew I'm conscious. Doesn't help me determine if a computer is

>>60865645
What if he's just a bot though trying to make you think it's human?

>>60865653
No. You don't just know you're conscious.

I know you're conscious because you can and have acknowledged that you are not a hollow shell outputting perfectly logical answers to my questions without being aware of it.

>>60865662
Ha fuckin fooled u

>>60865658
This problem only exists here because my experience of the other person is put through the peephole of a text comment, which a bot can of course mimick.

This problem is not valid in practice.

>>60865667
I'd like to see a bot could up with that joke and then derive pleasure from it.

This isn't Aperture Science.

>>60865658
His comments would be laced with racism, misogyny and general malice for humanity.

That's how you can spot a purely logical entity.

>>60864896
>A planet is just a ball of rock going around the sun
>A rimjob is just your tongue going around my asshole

What separates mars from a rimjob?

>>60865682
Even if it's a liberal bot?

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>>60865303
No.
Since quantum computing is nothing more than parallel computing at an infinite scale, if I understand the basics correctly.

The multiple states problem isn't really a problem. You can build special hardware, but a normal CPU should work fine. It's also quite popular to run neural networks on GPUs.

>>60865682
>has malice
>is purely logical

Im not a bot but that seems illogical

>>60865645
You cannot actually prove you are conscious. Sorry, the only reason we believe people to be conscience is because each of us knows what consciousness is, and everyone else is a human just like us.

>>60865032
If you measure it, you get clear distinctive spikes.

Different frequencies mean different things and the operations are not binary.
It is very fascinating.
You should read the papers Hubel and Wiesel did on the cats vision system, it is a good read.

>>60865003

Neither can you. All your actions are a function of patterns and data you have stored in your brain, combined with sensory information from the state of the space and time around you.

There is no free will.

>>60865534
We can change that.

>>60865764
That's probably the right interpretation but this seems real enough, so I'm not going to be too concerned on how fictional our free will is.

>>60865764
this tbqh

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Whether or not it fires is binary in the sense that it is all or nothing once you reach the threshold, but the input is anything but. You can have other neurons changing the membrane potential further from zero (hyperpolarize) or closer to zero (depolarize). You can even have a neuron loop back on itself.

>>60865764
But... There is quantum uncertainty and neurons are small enough

>>60864896
pc can use 100% of power.
humans use only 10%

>>60865713
>the only reason we believe people to be conscious is that each of us knows what consciousness is, and everyone else is just like us.

This is known in philosophy as "being correct."

>>60865807
randomness alone is not free will. honestly, the best bet is some kind of scientology "thetan" that permeates through the universe and the human brain is just an antenna that tunes to it. but it still doesn't explain what THAT is, but at least it leaves open more opportunities for free will than now.

>>60865713
Oh yeah?
Right now, I just made a dissension to engage you, here now.
I can feel my arms and legs, smell the air around me (woo oil warmers!)
I'm looking into a text box, just a page filled with words sending you this information, Explaining "my" surroundings to you, something that you are probably also experiencing.
Even if we were face to face, if we look them in the eyes we can never tell if what's going on in their head is completely; conscious or just a reaction, but we know that were weighing out past experiences
against who were currently speaking to and what kind of reaction to them is best suited.
I would hope in explaining this there is the possibility of showing a "personal understanding" of what it is to be concuss, and how alone we really are in the world.
Regardless of how many people we might surround ourselves with.

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>>60865816
>humans use only 10%
Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?

Do you think the lion evolved to use only 10% of its teeth?

Do you think the tree evolved to use only 10% of its leaves to gather sunlight?

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>>60865784
>>60865807
>>60865821
Free will exists on a spectrum anyway

>>60865829
Why do humans have impacted wisdom teeth?
But yeah, I agree we use more than 10% of our brains, just didn't like you're analogy.

>>60865824
relax dude. you shouldn't feel the need to convince us that you are conscious. don't go all crazy on us. we don't care.

>>60865821
Quantum doesn't mean random, it's more like that the destiny it's a surface of probability that you can modify to some extent.
Life it's like an unstoppable river in which we swim.

>>60865848
I'm not the guy he was originally talking to.
Just want people to stop and think more often.

>>60865844
I don't think an organ as important as the brain would ever be 90% vestigial.

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>>60864896
Design and implementation differ, but that's about it actually.

>>60865820
We agree on humans being conscious. However there is disagreement on other things being conscious. I am showing you that consciousness isn't understood at all because there is no known way to empirically prove that even a human is conscious.

>>60865824
Wow, you described what your thinking about and what's going around you, something that any computer can do.

>>60865858
Not just Important, we ARE the brain.

>>60865807
The effects of quantum mechanics have essentially no impact on the voltages of neurons. The brain's temperature is so high that quantum effects simply do not have any significance at all.

t. physicist

>>60865853
like some kind of feedback mechanism at the quantum level in our brains. i guess it's possible. i wonder if there are any experiments we can test though. copahagen quantum mechanics is a little iffy personally. there are competing theories like pilot wave theory that explains away the probabilitic nature.

Computers aren't conscious.

>>60865865
Last bit is important , I just woke up so forming the though was difficult.
The Idea is describing an experience that a computer couldn't understand at this moment, It could only repeat it if told.
An A.I right now wont look someone in the face and say "Am I sure they're thinking? do They know that I'm thinking?, and coming to the realization that there is no way to fully convey what An idea inside our head is like.

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>ITT: faggots who don't know shit about neuroscience or machine learning

>>60864896
We don't really know how neurons work.

Nothing. Both use electrical signals to send and receive information.
Brains are computers. They take in input, process it, and provide output.

>>60865888
sounds a lot like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_it_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F

>>60865888
How do you know such thoughts are necessary for consciousness?

>>60865794
In that sense, a neuron is analog, then.
The activities of it are a function of voltage, it's just that the function is very sharp from no activity to activity. It doesn't resemble a lightswitch to the same degree transistor does because of the potential differences you talked about.

But more fundamentally, neurons don't process digital streams of values. A neuron does not have a clock cycle.

Neurons fire together in intricate patterns which represent the information directly. Transistors fire in chains of ons and offs which represent calculations of numbers which represent the program indirectly.

The other thing to take into account is that they don't process digital values

>>60865900
bacteria takes in input, processes it and provides output.

bacteria are computers

>>60865911
Anything that can be modeled computationally can be described as a computer.

>>60865908
A continuous Conway's game of life

>>60865907
I "think" that these types of thoughts are a byproduct of not only consciousness, but higher consciousness like in humans.
Effectively; consciousness can be said in loads of animals, but how advanced it is defines its ability.
A naked mole is probably somewhat conscious, but it wont be wanting to go to the moon anytime soon.

>>60865920
No I'm entire point is that you're trivializing the process. It's comparative to saying computers and humans generate heat, so we're like computers! There's way too many gaps in knowledge about how brains work for it to be compared to a computer(which are trying to imitate brains anyway, so it's a given.)

>>60865908
That's what I was getting at, but thanks for expanding my senpai.

>>60865968
No, it's not comparative to saying "computers and humans generate heat, so we're like computers!" Anything that can be modeled computationally can be described as a computer. Brains can be computationally modeled. Therefore, brains can be described as computers.

>>60865764
>There is no free will.
Misrepresenting that brain experiment.

>>60865764
You're wrong. Strong determinism (no free-will) is self-refuting. However, most scientists and philosophers agree to some form of weak determinism (limited free-will).

>>60865208
Would you recommend it for someone tech savvy?
(Not OP)

>>60865829

>Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?


I learned this in 95 before the Internet

>>60865208
>tfw no 2D neuroscientist gf

>>60864896
I want to creampie Galko.

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>>60865764
>what is quantum mechanics?

>>60864896
your soul

>>60864896
>What separates computers from organic life?
"four joints later" in thread form.

>>60866794
> muh quantum mechanics refutes any and all causality and determinism meme

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>>60867170

>>60864896
Hah, great question. What if creatures, made of electronics by humans, can one day evolve on their own and achieve great powers . . . will they long to know us? Will they use their power to simulate universes to explain their own existence? What if we are in that simulation now? Are we the creatures who created themselves, or are they?

>>60867170
Well, there are still so many things we dont know nothing about yet, but you are here, having super simplified model of brain as deterministic black box with limited outputs and inputs claiming there is no free will.

You are full of shit.

Source or didnt happen.

>>60865920
True = True

>>60867170
Yes, that's how it works.

>>60867356
If someone actually manages to construct an oracle, a lot of humanity's values go straight into the shitter.

>>60864896
Just complexity.

By the way the neurons aren't only controlled by electrical inputs, but also various chemicals. So the sheer number of neurons aren't the only difference, there are also more dimensions of communication.

>>60867385
last I checked, things still cause other things to happen. Randomness doesn't negate causality. The repeatability of scientific experiments proves this.

>>60865949
What you're doing is confusing consciousness with self-awareness and self-concept.

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>>60865534
>we can have sex, machines can't.
>he doesn't know about sexbots

>>60865681
>Portal is one of the few depictions in fiction wherein AI's exist primarily to entertain themselves by taking the piss out of others, and don't give a fuck about anything else, really.

>>60864896
filesystem

>>60865816
>100% of a computers transistors are firing at any given time
Nigga you dumb, and don't understand the 10% thing

>>60864896
Organic matter, motherfucker.

Plus spirituality and philosophy, the ability to reflect upon ones existence

>>60868441
Nigga wat u talking bout.
My Samsung TV is fucking catholic, I'll carry that mf to church every Sunday.

>>60865764
how are you able to understand the concept of free will?
how do you know that "sensory information" exists?
how are you aware of your actions?

>>60864896
brain functioning does not correlate with intent or self-awareness.being smarter or havng a better memory doesn't make you more conscious of your being.

>>60864896
nothing

install gentoo on yourself
>>60868483

>>60864896
The soul.

There's no fundamental reason computers can't be conscious just like brains.

>>60868699
jordan is a fag

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The way a brain works isn't like a computer because there's so much concurrency. To really replicate a human brain you would probably need a gigantic cluster of computers.
Also it will never be possible to prove you've created a sentient machine because you can't even prove another person is sentient.

Nothing, dumb animeposter

>>60864896
The brain is an analog computer. It's composed of parts that are neither hardware or software but something in between.

>>60868724
I'm sentiment...

>>60868820

Sentiment about what?

>>60868854
My life and shit

>>60868370

the future is amazing!

>>60868870
loser

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>>60864896

nothing.

welcome to the matrix

>>60868660

I'm not? All of those are just strings of information and ideas stored in my head.

>>60864896

what is best? loli gyaru or onesama gyaru?

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>>60864896
>What separates computers from organic life?
Computers don't eat pussy. I do. QED

>>60865764
The mind has conscious veto, though; people are able to deny a course of action mentally even when the readiness signal is present (i.e, the neurons to do X have already fired before you are consciously aware, but you decide not to do X anyway.)

>>60864896
>Brain functions are just neurons going on and off that send messages
read a book

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>>60864896
>certain combinations of 0s and 1s are illegal

>>60865844
> you're
10% confirmed.

>>60864896
brain's also send chemical signals in the form of neurotransmitters and modulators

has more than just neurons like oligodendrocytes, astrocytes, and microglia

can repair itself to a degree

isn't made from silicon

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>>60870407
So the neurons firing that veto signal are totally magic and determinism doesn't apply to them?

>>60870453
>certain combinations of neurons firing are illegal

>>60870533
>certain combinations of metal, sulfur, charcoal and saltpeter are illegal

>>60865764
Determinism is false.
All my actions are random, influenced partly by things around me, but also there is a component with no cause at all.

>>60870553
It was predetermined that you would say that.

>>60865821
If you don't believe randomness is free will, then you are a compatibilist, just saying.
If you are an incompatibilist, you are either a hard determinist, or a libertarian.

>>60870553
You DNA + all outside stimuli decide what you will do.
Quantum mechanics don't really impact things on the scale of neurons (and I believe it's not random, we just don't know the rules yet).

>>60870575
Prove it.

Our entire society is built on the presupposition that free will exists. Even if untrue, we still act as if it exists.

>>60868699
>>60868820
>>60868870
Isn't Jordan a girl's name?

>>60870596
Especially given that components of the brain rely on quantum objects (sodium potassium ion channels), neurons are potentially on the scale where quantum effects matter, coupled with chaos theory, and you get that quantum effects may matter at a larger scale

>>60870636
no...

>>60870640
Maybe, but still I doubt things we call random because we can find no pattern really are random.

And all a computer is basically a rock and shoot lightning through it.

>>60865844
Wisdom teeth re useful if you lose some teeth before they start to grow. If you don't they don't fit.

>>60870671
The most convincing evidence of indeterminsm is Bell's theorem.
Bell's theorem shows that it is impossible for a local hidden variable theory to explain all of the predictions of quantum mechanics.
This essentially means that any deterministic framework of quantum mechanics must be fundamentally nonlocal.
A nonlocal theory has the issue that it is completely incompatible with relativity, in that it invites the ability for information to travel faster than light and therefore adds time paradoxes in causality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem

>>60865816
If you believe the 10% myth, you might actually be dumb enough to only be using 10% of your brain

>>60870726
I don't fully understand it, but
>though it still leaves the door open for non-local hidden variables

>>60870664
I don't like it...

>>60870753
Yes but non-local hidden variables == time paradoxes
In other words:
if determinism is true
you can go back in time to kill your grandfather before your father is born

>>60870770
not how it works

>>60870804
Yes it is, that is exactly what bell's theorem is arguing.
Nonlocal variables == ability for information to travel faster than light == ability to go back in time == ability for you to kill your grandfather before your father is born
The only reasonable way around it (albeit still very unreasonable) is to assume relativity is wrong to preserve determinism. So you have to ignore two of the most predictive physical theories we've come up with (relativity and quantum mechanics) and believe that they are wrong to have determinism that doesn't violate causality.

>>60870854
>Nonlocal variables == ability for information to travel faster than light == ability to go back in time == ability for you to kill your grandfather before your father is born
Not how it works.

>>60870726
How I think of it in simpler terms is that Determinism assumes all things can be accounted for by random chains of causation that have no inherit meaning.

Quantum phenomenon disputes this because there is little understood about what causes things at the quantum level to act as they do. Quantum theory is notoriously unstable (I mean as far as I can see, I'm not a quantum theory scientist) which means at the very least, we don't know for certain either way. The most we could say is that there are forces that dictate the nature of quantum objects we do not understand.

>>60870872
Okay it is obvious you are trolling at this point. Giving a meme response with no elaboration.
Keep on meming my dude.

>>60870636
yes

>>60870933
JORDAN BTFO

>>60870927
>he calls me on my bullshit so he MUST be trolling!

No idea. Assuming you're looking at it from the 'are computers sentient' pov.

I ascribe to the idea that any system that has significant interaction and complexity is sentient.

>>60870949
>he calls me on my bullshit so he MUST be trolling!
Not how it works.

>>60870962
Sure it is, but keep bullshitting however, I am sure you will be able to "convince" some foolish people.

>Sure it is, but keep bullshitting however, I am sure you will be able to "convince" some foolish people.
Not how it works.

>>60865723
Hubel and weisel is good shit, but its cintradictory to the top half of your post because they found that specific neurons will fire(1) to lines only in a specific orientation, such as vertical or horizontal, and remain completely at rest(0) otherwise

>>60865794
my man

>>60870943
It's both.
I could pretend to be a girl and not even have to make a fake name.

Get r3kt
But desu I hate this name because every Jordan I meet in life is a fag

>>60871041
>fag
woah woah woah mean comments are not appreciated here buddy :)

>>60865764
Wish it wasn't predetermined for you to make this shit post

>>60864896
Can't stick my dick in a computer.

>>60865703
i know jack shit about quantum computing: the post: electric boogaloo

>>60871255
yet

>>60864896
a computer does not have a consciousness therefore it cannot have thoughts but only follow instructions

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>mfw half the replies in this thread are me pasting posts into tay bot and posting the response here