Do people that study CS have the right to call themselves "scientists"

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Dumb frog poster

>>60852881
>not an answer

CS People aren't software engineers. They're math people. They're not engineers or scientists. CS is a very academic subject.

There's a lot of people who think they're taking computer science degrees when they're not though.

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My employment forms say I'm hired to work as an engineer

but in my native language the word for "computer scientist" doesn't include "scientist" but "knower", so I use that to introduce myself

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If you aren't calling yourself an engineer in 2017, you are literally cucking yourself out of more money and better jobs.

>>60853002
>computer knower
kek

>>60852873
My course of study is officially named "Applied CS: Software Systems Engineering" (B.Sc.) and I can assure you, it's more "engineering"-focused than CS-focused.
Software- and requirements-enginnering classes take up a lot of the studies.

They have no right to call themselves engineers.

Generally, an engineer is accredited and licensed as an engineer by one of the international accords.

An engineer is fully and completely liable not only for the actions that they make, but for those of others that they had the power to prevent and mitigate.

In most places, just for being in minor ways unethical, you can get completely banned from practice.

This applies to software engineers (people who actually study software engineering) as well.

I'm not sure of any obligations that scientists are required to have though.

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>>60853047
stand back, i know this

>>60852873
>Do people that study CS have the right to call themselves "scientists" or "engineers"?
It doesn't matter. None of that matters.

The only two things that matter are:
1) What your degree says.
2) What your job responsibilities are (titles don't matter either).

>I talked to this one person with degrees in CS and Chem and they want to argue that they're a software engineer.
Who cares? What is a "software" engineer anyway? Check out the National Society of Professional Engineers:
https://www.nspe.org/resources/press-room/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-engineering

>Why the fuck is engineer so loosely used these days?
https://www.nspe.org/resources/blogs/nspe-blog/the-cheapening-the-engineer-title

In my opinion, it is stupid to worry about what other people call themselves. Focus on your degree and getting a job. Everything else is just /g/ NEET frogposting BS.

>>60853112
also this

it's a doggy-doge world out there

do what you can to further your career, even if it is abusing titles that aren't regulated

>>60853112
You don't have to be this mad.

>>60853049
With a degree name as stupid as that, you definitely didn't graduate from a accredited US university. Your third world-educated opinion doesn't matter.

Students, regardless of their studies, don't have the right to call themselves scientists of their field.
Researchers are scientists

>>60853042
Fuck and I thought Systems "Engineering" was a stretch

>>60853049
Fuck off, Hans

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>>60853398

>my current job title is student researcher
>i research implementation of developing software in existing systems

what do i mean by this

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Only those in theoretical physics deserve to call themselves scientists, and only chemical engineers can call themselves engineers.

All others are soft fields barely deserving the title of science.

Sciencelets.

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>>60853453

the unmistakable stench of the second year bachelors student who last month declared his major in physics

>>60852873
>Why the fuck is engineer so loosely used these days?

Because of bootcamp kiddies that didn't go to college

>>60853049
Imagine being such a brainlet that you even have to take a dumbed down version of CS.

goys what is CS?
▲
▲▲

>>60853547
Cumputer Science

>>60852873
>sci·en·tist
>sīən(t)əst
>noun
>a person who is studying or has expert knowledge >of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.
Fucking spergs can't into search engines.

>debating facts
ISHYGDDT

>>60853614
So Computer Science is definitively not science?

>>60852881
Fuck off

>>60852873
I call myself an idiot that makes software

I'd like to think of "engineering" as fundamentally the practice of designing, understanding, and maintaining electro-mechanical systems.

You need the eggheads, the in-betweens, and those who wrench on your equipment.

>>60852873
Well there are people who are rightfully called software engineers without a degree and perhaps without even a second at a college campus.
The term software engineering is more related to experience and knowledge than a degree. Really fucks up the field of engineering from this point of view.

>>60852885
exactly,
CS != Software engineering

I'm a masturbation engineer

>>60853957
>He uses the Right Hand Rule everyday

>>60852873
Scientist. Software engineer should be used by computer engineers who chose to focus on software.

>>60853147
its dog eat dog you fucking imbecile
I swear all these drumpfkins from reddit ruined this place

>>60854021
You never considered he's just playing doubles advocate?

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>>60853423
QA

>infosystems architect
engineer has become an absolute meme word and I'm glad I don't have it in my job title

I seriously hope "architect" doesn't go down the same path though

>>60854144
tfw was tricked into doing qa at my last two interships

>>60854036
I keked

>>60854235

QA is worth lots of $$$ tho

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>>60854144

but the system into which it is being implemented doesn't even exist yet. the work im doing is literally the experimental stage of designing the system in the first place using the new tech

>>60853070
The only time anyone in the US views the title "engineer" as a protected term is usually for civil engineering and public works projects.

I have 6 years of education as an EE and didn't take the FE exam because it's a waste of time and money in my field, but my business card still says engineer on it.

>>60853730
Rude

>>60852873
I just call myself wizard. Because the things I do are like fucking magic to normies and they could never understand it even if they tried.

Fuck normies.

>>60854388
Wizard is a legally protected title. To use the title of wizard, you must:

> Be at least 35 years of age
> Possess a valid V-Card
> Run Gentoo on all computational devices you possess
> Be able to recite SICP from memory

>>60853665
it's a meme you dip

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>>60852873
>tfw I don't even have a degree
>no certificates
>basically I just finished high school
>yet, I'm employed as "Software ENGINEER"

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>>60854388
I hear ya, dubs guy.

>>60852873
t. butthurt unemployed engineer

engineering majors in college were the most sanctimonious cunts ever.

>>60853978
>he doesn't masturbate with a representation of a 3 dimensional coordinate system.

>>60854792
lol this.

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>>60854792
>unemployed engineer
Is this possible? Even the shittiest Civil, Mech, and Electrical engineering students managed to get jobs. I'm in the USA>

>engineering majors in college were the most sanctimonious cunts ever.
This is true. But I think it is because we don't have any fun compared to everyone else. Business majors for example, we usually start out making more than they do. But they end up making more money in the long run (unless we sell out and go the management route). And they got to enjoy their time in college.

>>60854857
i have a few """engineer"" buddies looking for steady work the past couple of years.

meanwhile, i graduated with honors as a history major and currently work as a software engineer kek.

>>60853528
SE isn't dumbed down CS, it's a different subject. You're a dumbed down version of a normal poster

>>60854882
So liberal arts is a goldmine for tech people?
http://www.rodsbooks.com/

>Engineers are people who design, construct, and maintain structures, materials and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost.
Therefore, software engineers are in fact engineers.

France doesn't even have a CS, CE, SE, or whatever distinction at license level. You study Informatique for 3 years which teaches you all:
- theoretical (regex, automates, graphs, etc)
- digital electronics: flip-flops, gates, memory, a meme micro processor
- low level (asm of a motorola chip or something), C
- functional, recursive (OCaml for us)
- object-oriented and GUI (smalltalk)
- linux, networking, shell scripting
- web: frontend and LAMP
- also some physics in the first year and math every year

You'll probably go to master to specialize, but still, if you end up doing sysadmin, you're a sysadmin, if you end up coding, you're a software engineer, if you end up designing you're a software architect or some shit, if you end up at hardware you're a computer engineer. If you go to research and write papers you're a computer scientist.

The ambiguity is unique to amerifats only.

>>60853042

I just got triggered by her stupid face. Why are women like giant toddlers?

>>60852873
As long as he's a straight white person. Shiskin pajeets shouldn't be considered anyone in the white countries.

>>60855089
she's ugly, so literally she literally looks nicer if she contorts her face that way.

no they're not engineers unless they have an official document that states they have that specific title.

computer science is a course, not a diploma itself.

>>60855024
>Not using the OG definition

>Engineering is the profession in which a knowledge of the mathematical and natural sciences gained by study, experience, and practice is applied with judgment to develop ways to utilize, economically, the materials and forces of nature for the benefit of mankind.

>>60853070
>In most places, just for being in minor ways unethical, you can get completely banned from practice.

Most naive post of the day.

>>60855142
>>60855024
no, you need a fucking license/diploma. taking one course does not give you that.

>>60852873
Engineer is a buzzword you put on your résumé to get a job. It's also used to pick up girls with.

It means fuck all to everyone else.

>>60855156
Why are you quoting me. I'm triggered. The "OG" definition wouldn't include software engineering.

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>>60855191
>Engineer
>pick up girls

>>60855210
but this isnt about if software engineers are engineers you fucking tard.

it's about if computer science graduates are engineers or not, and they're not because they dont have a fucking paper that states they are.

>>60855139
>CS is a course
I'll just say the difference between CS and SE is just a few courses, CS sits between EE and SE. Whether you're an "engineer" or "scientist" to most people really boils down to whether you are doing something more "theoretical"/research vs applied/practical/design.

>>60855244
>but this isnt about if software engineers are engineers
The two posts you quoted where are software "engineers".

>it's about if computer science graduates are engineers or not
So, you quoted the wrong people then. That makes sense.

>>60852873
No.

>>60855242
I worked for a medical device company and let me tell you the female engineers there, and there were quite a few, were hot as fuck.

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>>60855109
>>60855089

she contorts her face that way in every single picture she takes

>>60855257
>Whether you're an "engineer" or "scientist" to most people really boils down to whether you are doing something more "theoretical"/research vs applied/practical/design.

no, it boils down to if you have an official paper that states you are an engineer or scientist like the law requires in pretty much all western countries.

try applying for an engineering or research job without a license.

read OP again if you still dont understand what the fuck we're talking about

>>60855322
>female engineers
>hot as fuck.
Either you are lying or they were "engineers". Regardless, the digits are nice.

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>>60855109
>>60855089
>>60853042

>>60855348
Wtf I need a license to engineer or research things now?

Wtf CNN was right, I cant research things myself, its illegal.

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>>60852873

Here in my province (quebec) Canada, computer science is taught in the science faculty. A 3 years CEGEP(college) degree in Computer sciences will shave off 1 year of your CS degree in University.

Computer engineering is a 4 years degree taught in the engineering faculty and the first year is common with electrical engineering degree.

Those are 2 distinct and fundamentally different degree and no one graduating from CS would dare to call himself an engineer. Not only because "Engineer" is a restricted professional title but also because CS is like an accessory degree for people that need to acquire some coding skills to complement their main trade (physicists, math, aerospace, etc...)

Engineers code to silicon, CS code scripts that talks to API and other user-facing shit.

>>60855364
I would totally transform her coordinate system from Cartesian to Spherical, if you know what I'm saying.

>>60855362
Sorry man not lying, this company gets a lot of Purdue grads, they are hottt.

"Engineers are people who design, construct, and maintain structures, materials and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost."

There's two things.

One, engineers who are certified under some standard for their specific field.

And engineers who do what the definition says above, who many in CS do that.

>if this piece of paper doesn't tell you that you're allowed to be x, then you cannot be x even though you have the knowledge, experience and your job description matches x perfectly
>this makes sense to amerilards

what the fuck is wrong with you lot?
do you also let bureaucrats decide what you can and can't eat in the morning?

>>60855362
Also I didn't specify, these were engineers designing medical devices, not Wordpress engineers.

>>60855394
ffs you dense tard.

you can do shit yourself as a hobby, but you cant do shit professionally without a license.

people that study engineer are engineering STUDENTS, not engineers.
you can call yourself whatever the fuck you want but you are not an engineer unless you have a license and you cant work as one without a license.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2004/november3/TBP-1103.html

>>60852873
they are actually mathematicians and engineers

>>60854346
yeah but it was fucking m a n u a l
It seems the CE kids get actually programming internships at my school more than CS students.

According to my job title I'm an IT Engineer. I have no formal education though.

everyone wants to be an engineer these days. it's become a meme title

>>60855531
Wtf you are not a certified engineer (TM)?

>be amerifat
>look for a summer job between semesters
>let's go for fast food
>oops, need an officially certified burger-flipping license™®©
>let's go for jobs around the neighbourhood
>oops, need an officially certified lawn-mowing license™®©
>oops, need an officially certified dishwashing license™®©
>oops, need an officially certified street sweeping license™®©

>>60855555

>>60852873
Purely an American issue. Outside of burgerland "engineer" isn't a watered down job title.

>>60855554
Nope, got the equivalent of a collage degree. Built some systems for the company I work for and was hired to continue doing so. Was in first level support before.

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Is a network engineer a real engineer? I want to call myself an engineer and bang hot chicks with my dick doing the ol in-and-out, if you know what I mean.

>>60855656
Network engineering is legit

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>>60855565
>implying entry level jobs that require almost no training or education is the same as engineering jobs that require several years of higher education.

>>60855643
Wtf but anon said thats impossible

Surely his autism is correct

>>60855680
you're the one being autistic right now, lad

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>>60855643

>collage

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>Don't have a degree
>Only have GED + Net+ and Security+
>Get job as "Systems Engineer" doing *Nix Admin stuff
>Well respected and relied upon by my clients and peers
>Go to cookouts and events with my coworkers.

You're all fucking plebs and sell yourself short because of your shitty personality. Knowing shit is one part, being sociable and likable is the other.

>>60855674
I didn't imply that at all

and that's a cute picture of you

>>60855674
>You need a degree for shit you could look up on Google

>>60853042
This is why sane countries protect the engineer title. What the fuck

>>60855837
>protect the engineer title
you know you have your head 10 miles up your asshole when you actually believe that this shit is important in some way

>>60855073
similiar here in Germany, only that we have apprenticeships for sysadmin and for coding and Informatik is mostly theory.
Also very few people may call themselves an engineer her because it's a protected title.

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>>60855755
>comfy bullshit Install Gentoo job
Livin' the dream...

>>60855742
I don't quite know the American education system so I may be wrong.

>career
epic meme

>>60855851
>he's not an engineer
>laughingwhores.gif

>>60853049
Sadly many students thought this would be a good thing. I know personally someone who took it just because it has the word "Engineer" in it without actually knowing what Software Engineering actually is.

It's almost always never what they thought it would be.

>>60855955
It's video games, right?

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>>60852873
I went to school for electronic engineering, and work at a server farm for the US Navy.
Most of my buddies here only have CS degrees, and work with SQL management.
I would call them Engineers, most are really good with hardware.
CS guys are just smart dudes in general.
If you have a different opinion, then please discuss.

>>60855851
i dont want some fucking schmuck like you building a bridge or we'll end up like the chinese with literal trash inside the concrete pillars.

engineering titles exist for a reason, but computer and software engineering titles are different from "real" engineers.

If a K-Pop group visited your school while you were studying there how would you react? Would CS majors have the same reaction as Engineering majors?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9Az-Bvcqt8

>>60855976
>Electronic Engineer for the Navy
>Works with CS guys
>I am confuse
Please describe your job, sir.

>>60856033
He has an engineering degree, his pals have cs degrees, they do the same job.

>>60856033
I mostly do wiring management, and repair busted servers/routers/bridges.
I also monitor server diagnostics.
And last but not least, I build server racks.
Its a pretty good job, I get treated well by the full bird Captain that is in charge of me.
I only make about $30k a year, but my housing/car payment/lights/water are all paid for by the Navy. So pretty much all of the money I make is spending money.

>>60856084
This actually sounds really fucking cool.
How did you get this job? Just luck?
30,000 is nothing, but with everything paid for, I bet its great!

>>60856047
Bear with me, I just woke up.

>>60856108
I am probably going to sound like a spoiled brat for this, but my father is a Lieutenant Colonel in the Marines. He works with comms, and told me after I got out of college that they had a few spots open for civilians to babysit the servers here on the east coast. One thing led to another, and here we are.

why do people who maintain networks call themselves engineers?

>>60856027
Computer guys really do love their silicone.

you know "engineer" isn't some kind of legally protected term.
Its like speculating that the drummer doesn't have the right to call himself a musician. A person has the right to call themselves whatever the fuck they want. Its up to you to figure out what it actually means.

>>60856239
It is where I live

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In America even these guys are engineers

>>60856027
lol awesome

>>60856306
those are normal sized trains, Americans are just that big

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>>60856163
Because maintaining a network isn't just plugging shit in and turning it on you fucking pleb.

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>>60856306
manlettears express.jpg

I am a sanitation engineer who works for no monetary compensation on an anonymous imageboard.

I am a Social Engineer

>>60852873
why is it always neets who aren't doing anything with their life trying to bring others like cs students down to their level?

>>60852873
mechanical engineer here

the only true engineering degrees are mechanical, civil and electrical. all the others are derivative from these or memedegrees

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They barely have the right to call themselves human.

Most CS Degrees go in thinking they'll be developing games for the rest of their lives.

>>60853112
>It doesn't matter. None of that matters.
you are obviously a NEET. When you job hunt, you are actually marketing yourself. "Scientist" and "Engineer" are buzzwords that HR people like and that's a sufficient reason to be spamming them on your CV.
after you get invited in for an interview then you can start talking about your actual job responsibilities

>>60853453
>arabs -> women
kek'd

>>60852885
The large majority of compsci people who really love it do end up reading about engineering concepts because we build all the "tools" other "engineers" use, an engineering degree just shows you can memorize fucking cookie cutter algos and maths, find me a four year engineering degree job that doesn't have 60%+ of the engineering taking care of by software, which was made by lol brainlet non engineers, sorry bout that bloated ego souless pencil pusher faggot

>>60853765
>w-we would like t-to invite you over for a-an interview, a-anon-kun

>>60853070
t. 8th grader who's gonna be a a ((real)) software engineer

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>>60853042
>interaction engineer

>>60852873
yes
just like mechanical, industrial, aerodynamics, civil, etc etc engineers

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>>60855024
Exactly.
Requirements analysis, specification, implementation, testing and configuration management are the tasks I'm being prepared for at the university as a software engineer.
Sounds a lot like the tasks a "normal" engineer would do.

Not right away. Studying CS doesn't qualify yourself as an engineer, as there are multiple CS career paths that don't involve engineering. If you follow an engineering path (software engineering counts), then you can call yourself an engineer.