Is Electron the worst thing behind nodejs to happen to the t

>>60687206
Yes. Encourages bloat and useless crap to compensate for "programmer's" inability to write actual applications using native frameworks.

I've been trying out atom lately.

it sucks.

>>60687206
Lmao @ NEETs with hundreds of gigs of storage complaining about speed and size.
If only Electron apps were faster so you could spend 10 seconds a week more on ricing.

>>60687329
They've managed to create the text editor for kode normies.

>>60687338
You must be underage.

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The other day at work I had to compile a perfectly fine c++ cli program with emscripten so that it could run on node.js for my autistic coworker.

>>60687352
You must have autism

>>60687338
javascript """programmer""" detected

>>60687369
did you kill yourself?

>>60687380
>ad hominem
fucking, game set and match, argument won!

>>60687329
Yeah, I'd be into this whole HTML and CSS and scripting thing to write cross-platform apps. Except VS Code and Discord and other apps end up gutting it. And HTML should be S-expressions. And JavaScript should die, maybe use Lua instead.

This whole thing is very ill-advised.

>>60687384
I wish I had, but now I get to live with what I've done.

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is atom the only application using electron?

>>60687206
if there's one place where I don't like chrome, it's everywhere

>>60687381
Failure who takes pride in programming languages detected.
Your e-peen must be massive.

>>60687406
VS Code
Slack
Discord

>>60687404
I bet he has a github full of forked npm modules, 5 lines long and is a coding ninja who turns coffee into code.

>>60687338
You must be underage.

I'm not a NEET. I'm on the pretty old hardware, I use i3 and I don't like wasting cpu cycles on bells and whistles. I don't keep these applications opened because they eat lots of CPU, I open them only when I need to talk to someone.

>>60687393
In response to an ad hominem.

>>60687420
notice a pattern here?
>they're all fucking trash

>>60687434
fucking kekmate

>>60687425
You must be on the spectrum.
If you're not a NEET, buy newer hardware. It's easier than expecting devs to make software for hardware no one uses anymore.

>>60687440
100MB for a glorified text+voice chat "client"? A embedded browser to run a text editor? Yeah, literally shit. If I bothered to use Slack/Discord I'd just use the web app.

I think it would be fine if electron was a system library which shared the engine with the browser
But it's shit how it is now... If the engine was preloaded it could even be an advantage when starting up applications because they would probably come up instant

>>60687420
Spotify too I think. Ive ran Into a bunch more. While its okay for Linux because of software compatibility, like Skype finally being upgraded I hate it. Discord actually makes my fans turn on sometimes, ludicrous.

>>60687461
What for? For using the Electron crap? No thanks. I'm buying hardware for more appropriate reasons, for example for learning CUDA. I'd better stick with the applications written for the native frameworks.

>>60687206
I'm using 2 electron applications daily and they work great. also I'm making my video gay man in electron.

>>60687253
>to compensate for "programmer's" inability to write actual applications using native frameworks.
okay

>1995~2012
>programmers have to take GUI programming classes
>2012+
>all GUI classes are removed in favor of web development classes


programmers prefer to have programmable tools instead of GUIs because they are faster
normal fags prefer to have browser based applications because they will get raped by viruses if they download anything

do you really expect programmers to learn two different UI making languages so that you can feel better about saving a few megabytes at the cost of millions of wasted hours required to learn several languages?

>>60687422
His email signature says code artisan, just in case you might have thought that he knew what he was doing.

>>60687541
>also I'm making my video gay man in electron.
oh fuck

>>60687553
I'm sorry you have to work with him.

>>60687542
QT

>>60687542
If you don't want to spend a few hours learning how to properly program, you shouldn't be a fucking programmer at all.

ECMAScript is actually pretty slick for what it was intended for, oop for web. The shit is way out of line trying to make native programs though. I understand why companies do it, but it's still retarded. I mean, if you actually understand programming, how hard could it be to learn c# or java or c++ from javascript? Assuming you're not using the latest meme framework, layered on top of the last 5 meme libs. Like someone who thinks they're fluent in a language because they can have their smartphone translate for them.

>>60687572
about as bloated as electron

>>60687572
Do you know QT?

>>60687577
Show me what you made.

If the job market shifts away from the web you will get your light GUI apps back. Don't worry so much.

http://jayesh.me/2017/01/31/why-electron-is-best-platform-for-dev.html

>>60687724
>jayesh

>>60687675
I may be a total weirdo, but I really like making GUI's. Not so much web ones, but I like making native GUI's. I get really carried away with the small touches. Maybe it's because I've used so many programs with interfaces ranging from god tier to handle-your-own-exceptions tier. I know lots of people look down on GUI dev, but I think it's fun, and in just about every GUI that exists, there are small irregularities, if not bugs, that I notice that bug the shit out of me.

>>60687633
Do you know QT?

>>60687675
Yes, I wrote a Desktop app in C++. I also have been using GTK Python binding for small utilities.

These frameworks are not hard to use. The Idea of Electron is to write it for a browser engine in a pajeet language without pointers and compilations and will run on any platform without writing Makefiles and configuring build systems, addressing cross-platform issues, etc.

>>60687499
lol stop bitching about people using it then.

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>>60687734
>there are small irregularities, if not bugs, that I notice that bug the shit out of me.
You'll love windows 10

>>60687206
but ram is cheap.
There's nothing wrong with a chat client starting from 1GB memory usage.

>>60687763
I was talking solely about me. I don't give a shit whether you eat shit.

>>60687675
I am not a programmer. I'm an end user, I am absolutely fucking angry at "programmers" that can't program for shit, using the hottest frameworks or JS or whatever the fuck it is, causing my web browser to lag like hell because Pajeet or Stacey don't want to properly implement their code to run smoothly on ALL hardware. Let alone simple "apps" like Snapchat that are over 100 mb.

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>>60687802
>nothing wrong with a chat client starting from 1GB memory usage.
I hope you're trollin' mate

>>60687797
....yeah.. I want to like it, but the inconsistency is mind boggling for a company like ms. Personally, I find the new settings windows style to be ugly, but it would be tolerable if it were unified at least.

>>60687853
Microsoft stopped having good UI design after Windows 7. You can't argue with that.

>>60687865
Fluent Design will be in the next update in the autumn.

>>60687253
>>60687329
>>60687352
yeah for some reason i thought atom was all the rage and ditched sublime for it. When i started seeing the thread about how slow it was, i did the comparison myself.

sublime boots in no time at all and atom always takes much longer. undeniable that electron is shite

>>60687888
So they'll add yet another design language on top of everything else? Please don't tell me they'll actually apply it across the entire OS...

>>60687888
forgive my ignorance, but is this design language like a low level native windows gui framework? Like something that will get baked into .NET? Or is it more of a language that windows devs will directly use to create GUI's separate from the program?

>>60687918
http://fluent.microsoft.com/

It's design guidlines to make UI glamorous.

>>60687929
can you fit more buzzwords into a video?

>>60687942
As far as I know, they're rewriting their apps to make Windows consistent according to these guidelines. The next update will contain some new shite.

>>60687929
hmm weird. The nu-web shit they posted isn't very informative. Seems more like guidelines like you said, but I saw some places calling it a design 'language'. So.. guidelines and a newer set of GUI controls that are w10 style and have better scaling support? sounds like..overhyped inevitable updates to their VS ecosystem?

>>60687971
Honestly I don't know, I don't use Windows, I keep it in a small partition in order to be able to update firmware for a laptop. I'm just curious, I want to see how it will look after the next major update.

>>60687995
yeah for sure. I'm curious now too.

>>60687970
>>60687995
If they actually make it as consistent as 7/2008R2 I'll upgrade to 2016 right away.

100 bucks says the update will break their own apps worse than non-ms windows ones ;)

>>60687865
>problem: there are 7 different UI designs across Windows
>"this is ludicrous! We need to have a single combined solution. Fluent Design it is!"
>problem: there are 8 different UI designs across Windows

>>60687633
LMAO

>>60687406
There is full list here - https://electron.atom.io/apps/

>>60687338
>literally running a full copy of chrome just so you can see that beautiful ui that pajeet made for you

>>60688059
> w-we swear, the eighth one is the charm!
> what? what last time?
> oh, but this will fix all of that, right?
fuckin amateurs. I bet they do consider themselves fluent in ui design, considering they made 12 different ui designs for 1 ui.

>>60688077
>a list of apps to avoid

>>60688119
Sadly, it's not full one - it lacking some proprietary variations like official spotify client and such. But it's a start, yeah.

>>60687971
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_language

>>60688171
ahh i see. I thought maybe it was an actual language. The more you know I guess.
So.. they're basically saying, guys, we're going to do our jobs as designers this time?

>>60687406
Spotify
Skypeforlinux
Wunderlist

>>60687604
>oop for web
are you fucking high
almost all OOP in Javascript is a cobbled together pile of shit and Typescript is the first thing we've had that comes close to doing it right.

>>60687633
A Qt widget application is less than 10 mb. Unless you go full retard and use QtWebEngine or similar, that's fataly wrong. Also, even if it were, at least it doesn't look and feel like shit.
>>60687675
He doesn't. He chose the worst tool for the job.

Deezloader looks sleek tho

>>60689875
deez nuts b*tch

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>>60687929
I'll just leave this here...

>>60690597
wtf, is this a joke?

>>60690597
Ok, I just checked, this is a joke...

>>60687440
VSC is pretty good to be fair

>>60687553
>code artisan
is that really a thing? what could it possibly imply?

>>60687352
This. Computer science koders at my uni all seem to use it. Anyone with an inch of sense has even progressed past sublime to Vim.

>>60687399
Lua is leaps and bounds more shit when writing large applications in it. When it's used for small scripts inside a larger program, sure. But even then, if HTML is just S-expressions, use Lisp and be done with it.

>>60687577
Why do you hate the free market, anon?

>>60690597
not far off from the real thing

>>60690597
how is this possible

>>60687206
>>usually 60+mb big for trivial things like chat applications
that's an improvement to skype, which happily uses multiple gigabytes

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>>60688454
Spotify actually uses Chromium Embedded Framework. Almost same idea though.

>>60689781
http://download.kde.org/stable/amarok/2.8.0/win32/amarok-x86-setup-2.8.0.exe
>74mb
http://download.spotify.com/SpotifyFullSetup.exe
>57mb

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>>60694269
also
>even if it were, at least it doesn't look and feel like shit.
top fucking kek

>>60687206
What's wrong with node.js?

Seriously. I just started using it and it's pretty neat for small server-side applications.

>inb4: javascript le bad
OK, besides JavaScript being JavaScript.

Electron is bloated as it is

Add in the hip new coders that have zero idea of what they are doing. Imagine lots of bloated, wasteful, useless applications written by code monkeys which get paid like shit.

>>60694269
>Amarok
>Plays all sorts of different audio files, has plugins for multiple web-radio stations/sources, lyrics display, tagging, metadata lookup, etc.

>Spotify
>Plays local songs in a couple formats, streams from one source only. No tagging, metadata lookup etc.
>Tiny difference in size, huge difference in functionality

I don't think you're proving what you think you're proving, Anon.

>>60687206
>memory hogs
>lags the whole system
They are cancer, I avoid them just like the devil avoids the cross.

>>60687440
This

>>60690882
I can't see a single reason to use vim over sublime. I used to code everything in vim until I switched to sublime recently, and I can't see myself going back.

>>60694278
Way better than spotify and that's only an old Qt4 theme.

>>60694642
it disgusts me that a person can unironically have this shit of a taste

>>60695035
>b-but muh feggit web UI
likewise

>>60687206
at least with nodejs you can use a transpiler

electron is just trash

>>60695085
what?

>>60695054
it's desktop ui actually

>>60695159
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-to-source_compiler
that's how trash javascript is, people keep figuring out new ways to not have to write it

>>60695175
no, I want to know what >>60695085 was supposed to mean

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>mfw I'm saving all these threads and will be posting them in 15 years when all software with GUI is done in HTML/CSS/wasm

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Whats so bad about nodejs

i fucking hate slack its so slow and crashes so often

>>60695752
https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-gray#related-projects

>>60687206
Works fine on my machine.

>>60696264
But slack is written in an actual anti pattern way. It's not an electron problem. What slack does is it creates new chromium process for every team you have logged in. The result is few gigs of ram for some people, it's ridiculous.

>>60696420
>somebody has made a ridiculous set of libraries that nobody uses
how is this a nodejs problem again?

Tech hipsters are ruining software. They want to code things in "cool" and "hip" languages like Ruby, Node, and now Go. They make software bloated for the sake of "being cool".

>>60687206
But computers are so fast nowadays. That makes it okay to be wasteful because you can easily get away with it :D

>>60696861
Sure, it's totally not because thanks to cordova and electron you can cover most of users devices with one code base right? This sure does not help starting businesses right?

>>60696861
>They make software bloated for the sake of "being cool".
I think it's actually for the sake of actually making shit that works instead of wasting a year making your own UI toolkit from scratch and boasting on internet forums how your program will totally be faster than competition when you will totally finish it in the next decade because it's written in C++ an isn't bloated.

>>60696825
The problem is that they do use those ridiculous libraries.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/

>>60697204
>they
who? I don't. again, how is this a nodejs problem rather than a "people are dumb" problem? the only thing you can learn about node here is that npm is very convenient as pulling a library that implements a very simple function can be done quicker than writing 10 lines of code. of course that doesn't mean you should do it.

>>60696893
No, those already exist.
It's because
>Be trendy tech hipster
>Only know webdev languages
>Use javascript for everything
>So obsessed with javascript you try and build replacement frameworks using it in OOP fashions it was never spec'd for to replace proper backend languages
>Still obsessed
>Want to make desktop applications
>Company asks why you cant just use more javascript instead of having to hire more knowledgeable application programmers
>Get together and build this abomination that marries all the absolute worst, system-slowing, browsing-crashing features of the web
>Now we can make all our desktop applications here too!

Facebook Messenger is a simple chat program. It should use up maybe 30mb of RAM, and that's being generous because of enterprise bloat.
It regularly uses 300MB+ of RAM if I don't reset the webpage. Upwards of 850MB if I let it sit for long enough.
Tech hipsters don't know what the fuck they're doing and just cram whatever they can into reactive designs with 0 regard to any kind of performance or stability.

It's fucking trash, I don't want fancy animations if that means loading will be twice as long.
JS """programmers""" should fucking die.

>>60696420
>ansi-[colors]
>9 fucking files
>5 lines of actual code
>Made as a package
WHY WOULD HE NOT WRAP THESE ALL INTO ONE MODULE

>>60697274
>how is this a nodejs problem rather than a "people are dumb" problem?
Because the entire ecosystem of Nodejs encourages this and does this.

Does it work with browser API's like OpenLayers?

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>>60697371
okay, I can see how making it extremely easy to publish and consume library packages can lead to this shit. I still think it's worth it in the end

>>60697404
looks like a typical js library to me so it should work just fine.
also how does it compare to leaflet? I didn't even know openlayers existed and I'm currently using leaflet for my video gay man prototype

http://www.haneycodes.net/npm-left-pad-have-we-forgotten-how-to-program/

>>60697693
>There’s a package called isArray that has 880,000 downloads a day, and 18 million downloads in February of 2016. It has 72 dependent NPM packages. Here’s its entire 1 line of code:

return toString.call(arr) == '[object Array]';

Jesus fucking christ

>>60697745
https://twitter.com/mitsuhiko/status/712624914071728128

isArray is a big deal.

>>60697693
>>60697745
Why? ``Array.isArray`` is standard in the language

>>60697812
The package description says that it's Array.isArray for older browsers.

>>60697811
https://gist.github.com/rauchg/5b032c2c2166e4e36713
top fucking k e k

>>60688533
>almost all Javascript is a cobbled together pile of shit

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>>60697811
What a fucking retard

>>60697642
>how does it compare to leaflet?

I'm not too familiar with Leaflet but I think Leaflet is quite basic (like Google Maps) whereas OpenLayers is quite advanced.
OpenLayers is quite old but they did a complete re-write about 2 years ago which made it a lot better.

I quite like OpenLayers because it is very fast, even with thousands of markers and polygons and several tile layers.

>>60697927
thanks. my use case for leaflet is very simple and the game won't ever be finished anyway so I guess there's no point in looking into openlayers right now.

If only there were some kind of GUI library that externed C API and looked native on each platform(*nix, macos, windows,android,ios,...).
You could use it from any language that has interface to C.
Instead we got QT that is sepples cluster fuck and that's about it...

http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2016/p0267r0.pdf

>>60697981
There's wxWidgets, which is okay I guess.

>>60687206
Yes.
It's so bad, even the fucking retards on reddit are hating it. On Every product that uses it, you have dozens of comments that ask them for a native rewrite, on every product that's written using native technologies you find dozens of people thanking the authors for not using electron.

The only stronghold of electron is r/javascript, but those people are massive fucking tards who believe 20 second load times on mobile are fine as long as the dev has it slightly easier to manage his state.

>>60687206
Well, make a better way to make a crossplatform guishite fast and cheap

Anyway, the only os that matters for gui programs is Windows, so winforms for the win

>>60690810
https://laravel.com/

Basically to prefer nice looking bloat that's slow as fucking hell and totally unpractical for actual large applications which would profit from the expensive abstractions.

>>60687440
kek

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>>60687797
>yfw even a cobbled together GTK theme is more consistent between GTK2 and GTK3 than this shit

>>60698082
too bad that all those people do is bitch on reddit and 4chan while the electron people are actually releasing working software

>>60698099
>Well, make a better way to make a crossplatform guishite fast and cheap
Qt, pyQt.

>>60687206
No, Proprietary Software is the worst thing to happen to the tech industry.

>>60698277
I can’t even say what’s wrong with Electron, because— okay. Imagine you have uh, a toolbox. A set of tools. Looks okay, standard stuff in there.

You pull out a screwdriver, and you see it’s one of those weird tri-headed things. Okay, well, that’s not very useful to you, but you guess it comes in handy sometimes.

You pull out the hammer, but to your dismay, it has the claw part on both sides. Still serviceable though, I mean, you can hit nails with the middle of the head holding it sideways.

You pull out the pliers, but they don’t have those serrated surfaces; it’s flat and smooth. That’s less useful, but it still turns bolts well enough, so whatever.

And on you go. Everything in the box is kind of weird and quirky, but maybe not enough to make it completely worthless. And there’s no clear problem with the set as a whole; it still has all the tools.

Now imagine you meet millions of carpenters using this toolbox who tell you “well hey what’s the problem with these tools? They’re all I’ve ever used and they work fine!” And the carpenters show you the houses they’ve built, where every room is a pentagon and the roof is upside-down. And you knock on the front door and it just collapses inwards and they all yell at you for breaking their door.

That’s what’s wrong with Electron.

>>60698279
then why don't microsoft and github use it instead of electron? either it's not really faster and cheaper or they waste money just to make /g/ butthurt

>>60698420
that's a very cute analogy, but the electron/nw.js/cef/whatever-based applications I use and make are just fine. no upside-down roofs and all.

>>60698488
>then why don't microsoft and github use it instead of electron? either it's not really faster and cheaper or they waste money just to make /g/ butthurt
Probably because they're hiring fresh webdevs from school and the only reply they have to "Qt" is "Thanks, you too".

>>60698488
>then why don't microsoft and github use it instead of electron?
Because there are a shitload of brogrammers that work for companies like those. That's what you've got these days, brogrammers and pajeets.

>>60698539
>>60698555
that doesn't answer my question so I'll reiterate: does this mean that qt is not really faster and cheaper to develop with like >>60698279 claims or do they use electron just to make /g/ butthurt?

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>>60697745
>880,000 downloads a day, and 18 million downloads in February of 2016

>>60698646
Outdated information. It currently has 32 million monthly downloads.

https://www.npmjs.com/package/isarray

What's wrong with atom?
It's really comfy and looks nice and has all the workings of the most autistic text editor and more

>>60698597
>does this mean that qt is not really faster and cheaper to develop
That's a hard question to answer because there's nothing cheap about Electron developers. In fact, it's not faster either if you know what you're doing. PyQt/PySide is super easy and quick to use. The problem is that most of those developers don't even know fucking Python. So instead of learning properly they shoehorn in other stuff, which results in a worse product. So yes, Electron is a faster way for web developers to make desktop applications. However, that doesn't make it good or even acceptable.

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>>60698661

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>>60698664
>well established well documented editors that have been around for the last 40 years are "autistic"
>my new shiny pajeetware that reiplmenets the same things in a web browser 1% the performance and at 1500% the resources cost is "comfy"

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>>60698664
It's slow.

>>60698116
>The PHP Framework For Web Artisans

Php
Web b hipsters

God, it's that the signals of the ending days?

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>>60698664

>>60698709
I'm not a gaymur.
You guys act like it's this crazy resource hog. It literally boots up just as fast as anything else and what I like about atom the most is that I can open pdfs in it. It's almost like vim. What is wrong with atom besides being a bit slower?
>>60698741
>>60698730
Why does a text editor g2g fast?

>>60698762
>What is wrong with atom besides being a bit slower?
It's not necessarily a problem with Atom, since it's frequently updated, but for other applications that aren't you should really scoff at the idea of including an entire fucking web stack as a dependency considering how frequently exploits for those come about.

>>60698762
The same reason a text editor needs to open large files with many lines.
Here's a hint: it's called being usable

Is there something like Electron, where there is just single instance of Chrome with many apps (possibly with different windows)?

I think using HTML5 for desktop UI is nice. You can compile your favourite language into WebAssembly and easily and safely do UI with DOM and CSS, which is far far easier than Qt, not to mention gtk. But 60-200MB per app isn't acceptable. Too bad Chrome deprecated Apps in favor of Electron.

>>60697693
>>60697745

The real problem is Javascript not having such basic functions build in.

At least it's getting better, but they should have done something about it years ago.

>>60696861
Ruby is a scripting language and good for web development, Go is good (Dart is not though) for network programs and when GC does't become a nuisance, Node has no reason to exist.

>>60698741
>can't even open a 1 million lines file
Oh my fucking god.

>>60698667
>However, that doesn't make it good or even acceptable.
it produces software good enough for the companies I mentioned to release it and put their name on it. vscode is a joy to use. haven't tried github desktop yet because I use git cli. anyway, looks rather acceptable to me

>>60698730
I open vscode once daily: the moment I sit down to work. I can spare the 3 seconds in exchange for better plugins and big monthly updates

>>60698741
I'd say you have much bigger problems than half a second of wasted time when your code files are longer than 10k lines

>>60698787
Show me a recent exploit that targeted an up-to-date chromium and was able to make damage in a linux system. I'm asking genuinely as I've never researched this

>>60698793
Not him but I use vim for that. VSCode has a big clue in its name.

>>60698843
I'm not sure, but if it doesn't exist then it will in a couple of years and I can see it becoming a standard for desktop gui applications.

I'm willing to give emacs or vim a try but they have no support for assembly languages or VHDL verilog

>>60698787
Very good point

>>60698793
I was working on something with around 12k lines multiple files yesterday. No problem at all.

>>60698880
>and put their name on it
Microsoft made Microsoft Bob, they don't give a shit about their name.

>>60698880
>Show me a recent exploit that targeted an up-to-date chromium and was able to make damage in a linux system.
God damn near every exploit for video game consoles, including those that run on *nix systems like the PS4, is a webkit exploit these days.

>>60697899
who the fuck is he? the retard one

>>60698901
come on, that was in a different era. they do care about their image, especially now that mobile is killing their os market share

>>60698980
It was a bit of a joke, but they really don't care about their image considering how frequently they fuck their own customers in the ass via Windows 10. They're trying to shove ads and the Windows Store down the throats of enterprise customers these days.

>>60698999
MS is a large cluster of different teams. The OS team isn't the same as their cloud team, xbox team, .NET team, etc.

>>60688077
> http://ffftp.site/#!/download/
>minimal ftp client
>50mb
I suppose everything else is the same.

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>>60687572
>>60687633
Tcl/Tk. It's fast, ugly, expressive, cross-platform, lightweight. It has a better layout engine than CSS and uses very little RAM.

http://www.tkdocs.com/

>>60687338
Plenty of people complain about Electron outside of /g/.

bump();

>>60687206
>trying to build Atom
>"Error: Atom requires 10GB of free space in /var/tmp. Not enough space."
What the fuck?

>>60687206
Jaxx is a multi cryptocurrency seeded wallet that is able to run on Mac, Windows, Cellphones, Chrome Extensions and more because of this sort of technology and it's only 60MB for the desktop version, ur like little baby kidddo this tech is great

>>60702043
Does it build Chromium? Web browsers are among the most RAM-intense open source applications to build. Firefox and Chromium have pretty crazy build-time system requirements and take forever.

The Finns are on it.
https://github.com/pojala/electrino

>>60702225
>A desktop runtime for apps built on web technologies, using the system's own web browser engine.
fixing:
>A desktop runtime for apps built on web technologies, using macos' webview

so I presume this could be done on linux using something like qtwebkit? and then there's windows' webview which runs on edgehtml.
mfw in 10 years somehow every desktop os will ship with google(tm) chrome running in the background and that hosts all these apps in a shared environment.

>>60703006
google(tm) chrome running in the background that hosts all these apps*

>>60703006
>A desktop runtime for apps built on web technologies, using the system's own web browser engine.
So what Microsoft tried to do with HTML applications?

>>60687206
Why does everything need to be in javascript nowadays? I miss Java.

>>60703680
Java transpiles to JavaScript

>>60703006
Hey, HTA used to be a thing.

>>60704395
HTA is still a thing.

>>60694322
If you remove javascript from nodejs and replace the language with a server side language and remove npm. It's not so bad.

>>60704422
Does anyone at all use it, though?

>>60696861
go is pretty fucking cool.

>>60696893
fuck both of those. They produce trash, the developers are trash and the business owners who make decisions to use those are trash. Fuck it all

>>60704446
Microsoft Help, for one. The firmware and driver update tool for my server uses it as a frontend for the command line application running in the background.

>>60698277
>working software
KEK

>>60687338
It is not about saving disk space. It is about optimization; and we shoudn't encourage what electron does right now.

>>60697745
>https://www.npmjs.com/package/isarray
I had to search that package hoping that was a joke.
Unfortunately it is not, omfg

>>60702074
>running crptocurrency software running javascript.
https://www.nccgroup.trust/us/about-us/newsroom-and-events/blog/2011/august/javascript-cryptography-considered-harmful/
Enjoy losing faggot.

>>60687420
>>60687440

At least VSCode is a swiss army knife text editor with tons of plugins while maintaining speed and resource management where Atom failed.

>>60704537
fucking topkek

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>>60704537
>VScode
>speed and resource management

>>60687542
Web dev stays on web.
If you're not skillfull enough to learn another language then stay on web.
Many hipsters nowadays wants to develop on different plantform yet sticks to one language/framework, too lazy to learn something new and too afraid to go out from their comfort zone.

>>60704462
>The firmware and driver update tool for my server uses it as a frontend for the command line application running in the background.
That's actually pretty. It sure beats electron. Do you know if it uses the latest IE engine in its normal, non-compatibility mode?

>>60704601
It uses whatever version is installed. In my case I'm using 2008R2 so it's IE11. It seems to be running in a very basic mode with sandboxing disabled and all permissions enabled. If I hadn't right clicked and saw the standard IE menu i would've mistaken it for a native app.

>>60698862
What's wrong with Dart? It's literally a better JS.

>>60704631
what the fuck is Dart?

>>60704626
Sounds all right. I should dust off my old HTAs and see if they run.

>>60704644
https://www.dartlang.org/
It is a front end/back end webdev language and the scripting language of Google's new Fuchsia OS.

>>60704484
last month I did 200 hours of working work in a working VSCode software and it worked. I also watched some people play video gay men through a working streamlink-twtich-gui software and it also worked (although it's nw.js and not electron). your argument by ridicule is invalid

also I did most of said working work in the working electron software on my 2011 potato laptop so don't even try "b-but muh performance"

>>60698661
I wonder what percentage of these use the package directly as opposed to it just getting used by one of the packages up the dependency tree.

>>60687206
Imagine making Spotify which has constant interface updates natively for mac, web and PC. Fuck that.

>>60705910
he would totally do it in C++ if he was in the mood and it would totally be better, faster, shinier and more functional than their current client. he's on /g/ so he's surely much smarter than those retarded spotify software engineers that are too stupid to learn anything other than js.

>>60687338
>using a fucking web browser for a desktop application
if you can't make a proper fucking application in cpp or whatever you don't get to be called a programmer

>>60687440
at least discord doesn't have ads in it like skype does

>>60706105
>he's on /g/

prove it you liar

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>>60698730
why

>>60706118
Spotify doesn't want to pay for an efficient desktop, it won't somehow increase revenue.

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>>60694120
So does steam

>>60706118
>using a fucking web browser for a desktop application
it's no longer a web browser but rather an application runtime that renders ui declared with html/css and executes javascript

>if you can't make a proper fucking application in cpp or whatever you don't get to be called a programmer
so what? maybe he prefers the terms "code artisan" or "software craftsman" :^)

>>60706233
yes. it would be a 5 times more expensive to make and wouldn't have any advantages over the current client except for 100mbs less of used ram

>>60704576
>If you're not skillfull enough to learn another language then stay on web.
Alternatively, do whatever the fuck you want to do.

>>60704576
>Many hipsters nowadays wants to develop on different plantform yet sticks to one language/framework, too lazy to learn something new and too afraid to go out from their comfort zone.
are you calling increasing your workload threefold while making an application for 3 desktop oses "being hipster", "not being lazy" and "going out of your comfort zone"? because I would call it "fucking retarded" first and foremost

>>60706376
"not being hipster"*

>>60697899
The one with the picture is correct.

>>60704559
>>60704566
It's true though. It's perfectly fast and doesn't use doesn't use too much system resources. It's lightyears ahead of atom in both of those regards.

>>60706767
>lightyears ahead of atom

>must open one window instance per project/folder
One of the things that draws me back :
https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/396

>>60698862
CoffeeScript and TypeScript are better than JS. Dart just compiles to JS as Kotlin and others do. It doesn't provide something new not already found on some other language. It will survive though because it is backed by Google.

>>60707072
meant to reply to >>60704631

>>60707072
LOL, how's CoffeeScript better in the current year?

>>60687572
Qt is absolute garbage, it's even more bloated than Electron.

>>60707191
B-BUT IT'S WRITTEN IN C++ SO IT CAN'T BE BLOATED BECAUS /G/ SAID C++ IS FAST AND SWIFT

>>60697981
Isn't this what Tk is for?

>>60707191
At least it's not java script bloat.

>>60706118
>caring what randoms on the internet call you
You must be a star in desktop/battlestation threads.

it's entertaining when 25 year olds are made fun of for looking too young but they are already exhibiting the same neo-luddite signs their shitty grandparents are, which is all this really is. please stick to irc and keep jerking off pretending it is the 90s

>>60704498
How about optimization of time spent making the thing? Time is limited. Storage isn't.

>>60704566
>>60704559
im an atom user and i agree with him

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Check out this goldmine: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-positive-integer

>>60687633
>>60707191
>qt
>bloated
You clearly have never used Qt before. The QtCore, QtGui and QtNetwork libraries are more than enough for almost everything, you are not forced to run a full fucking web browser to show your shitty UI and you can even use qml if you're too retarded for C++ and it will still be faster and less bloated than your Electron poo.

>>60710499
Qt's minimal installation is 20GiB, you dummy.

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>>60687206
Electron is great, anyone saying otherwise is a retard.

Making GUI's sucks, it as always suck, webdevs have been struggling with making all sort of weird GUIs the most. Is no surprise then that the best and most flexible tools for making GUIs are web based.

Electron is basically an embedded browser, which means that your app runs by default on sandbox mode, this is good for security reasons.

Don't like Javascript? You don't have to write any, Javascript is Turing Complete which means you can transpile any other language to javascript. Here is a list:

https://github.com/jashkenas/coffeescript/wiki/list-of-languages-that-compile-to-js

The most popular not-javascript languages today are Dart (Google) and TypeScript (Microsoft).

Need to run native code? No problem! You can write Native extension and use them in you app with Node-gyp. Or use something like ZeroMQ to communicate the native part of your app to the GUI made in Electron.

There is no excuse to not use it.

>>60710741
>installing the full package
Learn to read, you don't need all those libraries and unlike Electron, you don't have to ship your app with all that unused bloat. And still, not even the full package is 20GiB you faggot.

>>60687470

> slack
> literally worth billions of USD

tell me anon, what have you accomplished so far?

>>60711587
>needing a full web browser just for sandboxing
Just use a memory-safe language and be done with it.

>>60688533

The concept of inheritance is just... different.... in JS. You can do OOP, but I wouldn't say it follows the same paradigm as any other OOP language.

ES6 classes are just syntactic sugar. Which I actually find problematic because now we'll have even MORE people who can't be bothered to learn how prototypical inheritance works.

I'm a programmer (I don't make Electron apps though). The reason you see such bloated software is because I personally have almost zero incentive to bother make it fast. The only metric my performance is judged by is how quickly I close Jira tickets project coordinators assign me. There is normal process in place to evaluate how fast the software I'm making is, so if I spent time any optimizing I would actually hurt my performance when the time to distribute bonuses comes.

>>60711587

>Is no surprise then that the best and most flexible tools for making GUIs are web based.

nahhh. I honestly think Apple's constraint system is great, and would love to try something like this:

https://gridstylesheets.org/

>>60687338
>>60687577
Not that guy but your projecting. You don't want to learn JavaScript or Node, things that are becoming more and more in demand.

Your like an old coworker who only new Perl and wouldn't touch anything else.

>>60707316
Tk has http://www.androwish.org/ for Android, but nothing for iOS.

>wanna download some simple pomodoro timer
>see one built on electron
>60MB

Wft I hate electron now

>>60687206
Size isn't important unless it's really fucking big that it matters for your drive space.

The only bad thing about it is the low performance, but the same can be said about Java for user applications. That initial startup delay is awful for user experience.

>>60687206
Yes, it enables witless idiots to break out of the sandbox that is called the web browser.

Technically, at least those points are wrong with it: (TL;DR: it can't be fixed)
- chromium filesize is too big
- it requires too much RAM
That means it loads slow, even on decent computers. If it doesn't, that means it's still hot in cache or you are lying to yourself.
Might not be a problem for every application, but text editors, chat software etc. should be there instantly.
Those two points could be fixed with a separated, heavily debloated runtime installation that allows to specify to load browser features you'd actually require for you application. This way you could prevent loading a lot of bullshit like video support into RAM. However, Google made it quite clear that they have no interest in making V8 or chromium particulary modular or reusable, to the point that Qt abandoned V8 in favor of their own interpreter.
- You build stuff out of nodes that are too bloated and make too much assumptions. That leads to much of cache misses and branch mispredictions and leads to inferior responsiveness. Even on decent computers.
If you don't experience that as a problem, you are a feedback-loop cripple. Good for you, but UI development isn't a race to the bottom.
There is also the issue that developing stuff from HTML elements, CSS and JS being painful, but that just my opinion.

the product is more important than some autistic obsession with the tech stack/file size.

>>60714232
>Size isn't important unless it's really fucking big that it matters for your drive space.
>The only bad thing about it is the low performance, but the same can be said about Java for user applications. That initial startup delay is awful for user experience.
#1 is on the same side of the coin as #3 and in this case even #2.

>>60714552
That is only true if the stack CAN lead to a convincing product, which isn't remotely true in this case.

>>60714600
VSCode is the best code editor I have ever worked in

>>60714566
Do you have autism?

>>60711662
>not even the full package is 20GiB
It's the minimal package, dumbass.

https://electron.atom.io/blog/2017/06/01/typescript
>mfw electron people are now posting vscode screenshots on their blog under atom.io domain
atom ded

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>>60711587
Go away with your reasonable argument; were shitposting

>>60715003
It would be the best free editor out there POINT, but the occasional high input latency degrades it to "nearly ruined".
And for their unsuccessful optimization efforts they could have build it on top of nothing using GLFW, FreeType and raw OpenGL. What a kick in the head.

>>60715009
No, just suffering from other people's retarded decisions.
>>60715461
Go away, samefag, those aren't reasonable arguments.
JS is only a minor problem of Electron.

>>60715608
>but the occasional high input latency degrades it to "nearly ruined"
sorry, works fine on my Arch GNU plus Linux machine

>And for their unsuccessful optimization efforts
I'd say they were pretty successful

>they could have build it on top of nothing using GLFW, FreeType and raw OpenGL
they could also have built it using raw assembly with raw opengl. or perhaps implement it directly on custom hardware with raw nand gates!

>>60715714
>>but the occasional high input latency degrades it to "nearly ruined"
>sorry, works fine on my Arch GNU plus Linux machine
It doesn't, you're either lying to yourself or you are an latency cripple.
>>And for their unsuccessful optimization efforts
>I'd say they were pretty successful
I don't. <10% isn't great in terms of responsiveness. It went from total unusable to merely annoying. Optimizing sufficiently enough complex CSS on top of a browser engine is mostly like optimizing same CSS files for file size.
>they could also have built it using raw assembly with raw opengl. or perhaps implement it directly on custom hardware with raw nand gates!
My point is, building a complete toolkit on top of OpenGL and an editor with it isn't actually more work than on top of a shitty browser engine. The one faggot building ST did it alone, I expect a whole team to beat that.