Gnome devs are already preparing for GTK 4 while XFCE and MA

Xfce is stuck in 2002

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I can wait

>>60630216

Gtk 4.0? What's new? Did they replace the concept of windows with dbus-connected systemd services?

Why is Xfce4 even bothering? I'd happily stick with GTK-2.

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>>60630216
Fucking mint.
>Meanwhile, Gtk 4.0 will not be the final stable API of what we would call “Gtk 4”.
>Each 6 months, the new release (Gtk 4.2, Gtk 4.4, Gtk 4.6) will break API and ABI vs. the release that came before it.
https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/

>>60630216
xfce and mate are best DE's and that you mention it in thread about gnome is another proof

I don't care. I'm not an incompetent imbecile, and as such don't rely on any "desktop environment". Xfce is fine, and will be for years to come.

>>60630523
hey me too

I like LXDE

>>60630523
>I'm not an incompetent imbecile
The fact that you can't tell a DE from a toolkit says otherwise

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Qt is superior in literally everything and GTK has no reasons to exist in 2017. Prove me wrong, protip: you can't.

>>60630216
GNOME """""devs""""" lol

>>60631327
>he thinks you can write an innovative DE without having control over the GUI toolkit

Good luckerino

>>60630216
GTK is a dead end technology anyway.

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>>60630216
>being a gtk cuck

>Using a desktop environment that depends on a graphical toolkit tuned for the needs of a company (Red Hat) instead of the users.

Linux users are truly the biggest cucks.

>>60632140
... and Windows... and MacOS... and iOS... and Android

>>60632140
>being this autistic

>>60632171
No you fucking imbecile, All those make their user interfaces thinking primarily on the needs of their users not the employees at Microsoft, Google, etc. Meanwhile if you use Fedora or GNOME you are beta tester for Red Hat.

>>60632223
Red Hat damage control team spotted.

>>60632140
This, sadly.

When I read about the news of Canonical ditching Unity and adopting GNOME I was very sad. I had planned using Ubuntu for many years to come, but finally saw myself obligated to switch back to Windows because GNOME is a nightmare to use and they have a history on fucking up with their users and people who had build around their technology.

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>>60632238
It pleases me to know you exist.
Have a good day, anonymous.

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>>60630238
Needs a GNOME3 interface with right click menu for my Refracta build...

>>60630216

literally why

I'm getting real close to just giving up and installing gnome along with systemd

>>60630286
>muh wayland meme

>>60633996
Wouldn't be surprised if it's a passive-aggressive move to kill other GTK environments by making GNOME look like the only "modern" option.

>>60630216
>tfw I still use the old gtk2 and glib2 patch for thumbnails in the file picker
You can't stop me.

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It's not "GNOME 4" in the sense that they've revamped stuff and added a lot of features. It's "GNOME 4" in the sense that they will break every API.

No, that's literally it. GNOME 3 was a clusterfuck. Every six goddamn months they releases a new version that added almost nothing (in fact, it removed several things) and broke every single API they had, so GTK themes and GNOME add-ons broke until the makers updated their add-on/GTK theme with whatever new bullshit the GNOME devs wanted to add.

So, the GNOME devs got tired of people calling them out on their bullshit and decided to use a new numbering system: "stable" non-changing APIs will get a .0 release, everything else is .X. Sounds nice, right? NO.

The GNOME devs, in another display of how shitty they are, decided to release a new "stable" version every one year or so and to make every version not compatible with each other. So prepare yourselves to install GTK 4, 4.1, 4.2, etc.; 5, 5.1, 5.2... Because every dev is going to use a different version, or get stuck trying to port to a newer version that will be old by the time they finish.

Basically they managed to make GTK a moving target. Not even Microsoft is this incompetent.

Fuck GNOME and their developers. Ever wonder why the other Linux companies (Canonical and SUSE) wanted so much to use QT DEs (Unity 8 and KDE)? To be free from the Red Hat developers that break GNOME every time a new Fedora is about to be releases.

I'm drunk, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say here. Basically GNOME devs are idiots and adopted the Chrome numbering system.

>>60630216
at least I'm not dependent on CancerD

Is there any nice white/bright theme for gnome? All I can find is shitty, edgy, muh dark themes, or if they hare partially white, they're still partially shit colored.

inb4 muh eyes

>>60635659
Arc's light version is pretty okay

>>60632407
Can't you just switch to KDE or XFCE or MATE?

WHERE DO U DRAW THE LINE
BETWEEN WHAT A DE DOES
AND WHAT A YOUR OS DOES
GNOME DOESNT KNOW THAT LINE
THANK GOD FOR MATE

>>60635700
Arch light is half blue with a dark blue task bar

>>60635784
Well it's probably the best you're gunna get
Even Adwaita has dark elements

>>60635659
I like Arc. It's nice. There's also the Numix theme.

>>60630284
>Did they replace the concept of windows with dbus-connected systemd services?
Pls sir delet this its not funny.

It appears the major change is simply the versioning scheme and what version numbers mean for API stability, however, not any major technical change:
https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/
>We are going to increase the speed at which we do releases of new major versions of Gtk (ie: Gtk 4, Gtk 5, Gtk 6…). We want to target a new major release every two years.
>Meanwhile, Gtk 4.0 will not be the final stable API of what we would call “Gtk 4”. [...] Each successive minor version will be growing toward a new stable API. Before each new “dot 0” release, the last minor release on the previous major version will be designated as this “API stable” release. For Gtk 4, for example, we will aim for this to be 4.6 (and so on for future major releases). Past this point there will not be disruptions; this “stable API” will be very stable. There will certainly not be the kind of breaks that we have seen between recent Gtk minor releases.
>In this way, “Gtk 4.0” is not “Gtk 4”. “Gtk 4.0” is the first raw version of what will eventually grow into “Gtk 4”, sometime around Gtk 4.6 (18 months later).

>>60635825
Why is there so much hate against bright themes?

>>60635870
I remember watching numix a couple weeks ago and it was half dark.

>>60631327
>Prove me wrong
C++

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>>60635940
The title bar is black, but I wouldn't call it a dark theme at all.

>>60632407
...but Unity also uses GTK.

>>60635966
Didn't they port most of it to QT though?

>>60635755
Not the same anon, but for me, nothing works as well as Unity.

>>60635927
>Gtk 4.0 is not Gtk 4
linux users, everyone

>>60635960
Yeah, but I didn't either. I said it was half black, because the title bar and the gnome shell bar are black, and those are things you see all the time and it bugs me.

>>60636019
>tiny portion of the window is dark
>half black

Also just don't use GNOME if you don't like the bar.

>>60635976
Yeah I figured. Then you better hope they make Unity a secondary flavor or that someone in the community forks it.

Going back to Windows sounds really harsh.
Have you tried finding a Window Manager you like and building your own DE?

>>60632076

/thread

>>60632076
What would you suggest instead, Anon?

>>60636037
It's two of the main panels, to me it's half black.
Also it's pointless to argue my wording. Even if we say that is partially black (which you cannot deny) the problem still remains: it's enough to ruin the rest.

>not using MATE

>>60636068
I'm sorry you're this autistic anon. You could just different window manager and disable title bars if it bothers you this much.

>>60636082
It's ocd, not autism.

>>60630216
aren't the gnome devs all mentally ill pre-op transsexuals?

>>60630216
Gnome shill here gnome 4 is gonna be the year of the Linux desktop

>>60636039
>Have you tried finding a Window Manager you like and building your own DE?

Well about that, I have good memories of using Calm Window Manager cwm(1) on Slackware. Gonna give it a try again on OpenBSD.

>>60631327
I wanted to like Qt, I really did, but in functionality, it's ass.

>>60635952
glib just reimplements C++ features shittily anyway

>>60630216
Gtk3 is finally have stable api, so now is the best time for other DE and application to port their code

>>60630216
can we stop using gtk forever or just settle back on gtk2
causing breaking changes without a major version number increase is fucking bullshit

>>60630238
Good.
That's the whole fucking point.

i'm still on gtk2 waiting for 3.x to stabilize

>>60635456
>>60635927
What's the point of developing anything in GTK 4.0?

>>60638857
as far as gnome is concerned gtk is something only gnome uses, they don't give a fuck who else uses it

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>>60632407
>>60635976

It's kinda sad. Even though I like GTK3 style programs like in pic related, I hate the "flagship" GTK3 desktop enviroment. It seems like almost any other GTK3 based DE or Gnome fork has better usability than gnome itself.

>>60638939
Are they even aware that GTK is the most common GUI toolkit on GNU/Linux? Or do they just like to act like arrogant niggers on a power trip?

>>60630216
MATE already ported everything to GTK3 on 1.18 release

>>60639240

>Or do they just like to act like arrogant niggers on a power trip?
Look at the entirety of GNOME 3's development history, you'll find the answer.

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>Tfw KDE master race

>>60635927
>>60630315
>/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/
JUST CONFUSE MY SHIT UP

>>60632407
>GNOME is a nightmare to use
i disagree its great to use but is a mem hog
>and they have a history on fucking up with their users and people
yep and forum/bug cencoring and such

>>60631327
I like at in everything except the way it looks and feels. No DE shipping Qt has sand default theme and settings. Compared to that DEs shipping GTK+ have really good default configs, but good luck if you want to change stuff without digging through gconf...

>>60635456
>Every six goddamn months they releases a new version that added almost nothing (in fact, it removed several things) and broke every single API they had

Why do people bother posting things they know are patently false and can easily be disproved?

How can you spot someone who has never written a GTK+ app, but will complain about GTK+ APIs as if they are familiar with them? They complain about themes. That's the only issue they know. Protip: themes were never a stable interface.

For anyone who likes facts, and not alternative facts, you can check GTK+'s API/ABI history here:

https://abi-laboratory.pro/tracker/timeline/gtk+/

>>60635927
Will the major versions at least coincide with Ubuntu LTE releases now?

>>60642339
No, but it didn't matter anyway.
LTS should ship stable applications.
Applications developer need time to update to newer gtk version. For ubuntu 18.04 application developer should target gtk 3.22.
But I'm afraid first party gnome applications will follow next gen gtk version. Which is gtk 4.2

>>60630216
>Gnome
Do people still use this crap?

>>60632407
You fucking cuck, you could just switch to Debian/Gentoo/Arch/Trisquel/Guix and install i3/openbox/xfce.

>>60642083
cat .gtkrc-2.0 .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
gtk-icon-theme-name="breeze-dark"
gtk-theme-name="Adwaita-dark"
[Settings]
gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme=true
gtk-decoration-layout=menu:close
gtk-icon-theme-name=breeze-dark
gtk-primary-button-warps-slider=false

wow that was hard

>>60642609
I'm not proud, but it's the only thing that is retarded/black boxed enough that bistros can't fuck up the default config.

I swear bistributors are the source of half the cancer in the linux world.

Is this accurate?
https://youtu.be/slIhZwmMv1g

>>60642083
Isn't KDE basically the only Qt based DE? LXQt is not quite ready for consumer use yet from what I heard.

>>60642201
>says I'm lying
>proceeds to prove I'm not lying
Are (you) autistic or something? I already said they broke GTK themes and addons all the time, then you proceed to show how they actually broke GTK themes and addons all the time. It's a known issue with GNOME 3.

What is the point of your post? I can't even.

>>60636332
Still doesn't force you into a specific language.

>>60638857
The article explicitly says that most projects won't want to do that, but that only those who are interested in following the development of GTK and use its latest features will want to. Such as Gnome.

>nobody has posted this yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8cErUbEiYk

that sweet animation

>>60642339
>We want to target a new major release every two years. This period of time was chosen to line up well with the cadence of many popular Linux distributions.

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>>60630216
>using gtk
>any point in time

use Qt, faggots.

>>60643322
Mostly have nothing to do with gtk. It's all gnome and mutter magic, but yes it all looks sweet.

The change-over from GTK2 to GTK3 went about as well as the change over from python 2 to python 3. and now we get to do it all over again!

>>60643652
Gtk 4 doesn't introduce new theming syntax so wouldn't be as noticable to theme writer.

>>60642924
Pretty much. Budgie is moving to Qt though.

>>60643709
for now

>>60643652
you're wrongly assuming that they're using the same versioning scheme

>>60630216
does this mean canonical decided to actually communicate with gnome devs and asked them to release one stable release every time an LTS will come out? That would be nice desu, but i guess it will be few months off and ubuntu will continue the general fuckery with gnome versions in releases

XFCE is enough for me, it's way more minimalist, and arc theme makes it beautiful.

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Stop being gtcucks.
gtk2 or modern Qt is the way to go (if you have to use a GUI that is. ncurses / CLI is the superior choice for many tasks)

>>60643349
>>60645589
We all want to, but kde is shit and lxqt is basically alpha. Its weird to see so many great qt programs but zero usable DE's

>>60645631
While it's not for everyone - I'd recommend trying out a tiling WM

>>60645251
Yeah GNOME devs are just retarded.

>>60635927
The GNOME devs seemingly have no idea what they're doing.

>>60645684
i used i3 for some time but fortunatly i was able to push linux on all my home pcs and need to use something easy to use, and frankly gnome 3 with minor tweaks does the trick. KDE would be ok too but i literally hate it since the 5.X version, also its unstable on nvidia drivers or something, hangs often.

>>60635927

Oh fuck they're going full Firefox.

>>60645733
Fair's fair. I'm using bspwm on my work stations and XFCE on my laptop & one-shot VMs and it's great too (even though they've started converting to gtk3 recently)

>>60645728
>The GNOME devs seemingly have no idea what they're doing.
>seemingly
They haven't for years. People only put up with it because there are so many programs with GTK dependencies.

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>>60635927
What is wrong with these people?

What are they doing with all these major version numbers that means they have no time to work on the fucking shit tier file picker?

Everytime I settle back into a GTK DE somebody has to jump shark and I go back to putting up with KDE. Fucking retards.

>>60635927
There's a follow up to that post as well.

https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/14/gtk-5-0-is-not-gtk-5/

They thought about adopting a more sane approach to versioning but decided against it because they want to be able to make breaking changes whenever they feel like even if it doesn't make sense. This is just going to lead to a huge confusing clusterfuck.

>>60645954
Honestly MATE and XFCE devs should just make their own branch off of GTK3 and keep it alive indefinitely. There's no reason a fucking widget toolkit needs to change every other year and break everything.

>>60646026
Hopefully it leads to the death of GNOME and GTK.

>>60646086
I'd rather switch to windows than use quglybloat software

>>60646112
LXQT isn't bloat.

>>60646026
is gtk 6.0 gtk 6 though?

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>>60646128
a lot of visual bloat on that screenshot. not that I care, I don't use a DE anyway.

Should I give in to the gnome bloat? It looks so good with a few extensions

>>60646181
if you tweak the title bars sure, everything works if you dont find it lacking any features

This thread was here yesterday, where i said -

IT SURE WOULD BE NICE
IF GNOME DIDN'T ACT LIKE AN OS
BACK TO MATE HUH GUYS

how can i make the gnone shit less shit:?

>>60646086
Not gonna happen while Red Hat is in charge.

>>60646203
honestly, to me it seems like gnome has the only sane taskbar (after installing extensions ofcourse)
What other panel allows you to have a taskbar with only icons which stack?

>>60646261
stacking is ok , worst part are non-gtk3 applications that have huge menu bars and the gnome title bar

>>60646175
>1366*768

>>60646387
http://lxqt.org/

>>60630216
Nobody needs gtk3 or gtk4 shit

>>60630286

This exactly.

>>60632140
what do you mean tuned for the company?

>>60643308
neither does C++, you can always use the C standard library

>>60646998
Gnome doesn't care for Linux user's needs, free software in general etc.. They are working on converting the whole Linux world into Red-Hat OS

>>60640310
This. Tried to switch to GNOME because some bug involving mpv and user shaders, but I lasted one day. WHY THE FUCK IS THEIR WEBCAM PICTURES PROGRAM A HARD DEPENDENCY FOR HALF THE SYSTEM? I DON'T EVEN HAVE A WEBCAM.

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>>60632238
>All those make their user interfaces thinking primarily on the needs of their users
That would be great, but GTK+/Qt made for developers, not users. It's have nothing to do for beta testing as most GTK+ developer don't give if any feedback to gnome fags, because they won't listen anyway. This is the same with the proprietary shit, just they are OSS.

>>60637083
At least the CSS won't break this time.
>>60637266
Wayland meme needed. After GTK3 everybody can take a break. Ironically Gimp don't give a shit as i know.

>>60647049
Or python, but vala is more fun, so...

>>60646086
Almost nobody hire GTK+ developers, so it's practically dead.

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>>60630216
honestly I just want a wayland version of openbox with a file manager with good quick-preview abilities.

Gnome is pretty good though, but there's a lot of infrastructure for apps that don't work well, e.g. evolution. Nautilus keeps crashing as well.

I can't even keep up with all the different APIs, frameworks and whatnot. GTK, XDG, gstreamer, pulseaudio, dbus, I don't understand why it's all necessary and it seems like they keep adding features when they should be removing features and making shit work better.

>>60646658
>implying Qt isn't garbage as well

>>60648218
>honestly I just want a wayland version of openbox with a file manager with good quick-preview abilities
Me too anon. Sway ain't bad though it's still pretty buggy.

Nobody cares, Xfce and MATE are total shit anyway.

>>60630216
because as you know GTK is more important that everything else

>>60648267
maybe it's time to let linux be and focus on redox

>>60648322
Keep dreaming.

As a bro on XFCE, it's become comfortable these past couple years.

I tried a live CD of kubuntu this past weekend. Yes, KDE looks nicer but it still has screen tearing which I fixed long ago in XFCE. It crashed at one point on me, and the default video player didn't play my .mpv files when Parole has no issues.

I did like the default calculator application in KDE as opposed to XFCE's.

>>60648515
I'm curious, is there something wrong with redox? I mean rust is doing fine and moz is going to use it, right?

>>60647934
i have cheese removed on ubuntu ,what are you ranting about? Only annoying thing you cant remove are evolution-common from what i remember

>>60648696
It takes the settings application with it. It's a hard dependency for the GNOME settings application, at least on arch.

>>60648716
That's funny, I wonder why

>>60648696
I managed to avoid evolution

>>60648250

Didn't imply that at all nor did I mention qt (which is shit indeed)
Nobody needs gtk3 and gtk4, as in gtk2 is all you need for a decent desktop.

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>>60648716
welp , guess arch packagers are retarded.
do you have cheese-common package too? It may remove gnome-control-center with it but those are libs, pic related

>>60648803
Don't know, I already purged gnome from my system.

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>>60648803
>>60648716
sorry here is a non-plumber version

>>60648823
well you might consider that arch repo team tends to group up packages into huge piles of shit because it allows them to look like they have less packages installed and are more minimal in their anime screenfetches.

>>60648716
Arch maintainers are lazy idiots. They compile stuff with as much shit as they can because it's easier.

>>60647049
As long as you don't actually want to use Qt, which would be the point here.

>>60646026
so basically, instead of everyone who does;
- work on new api for a short period, like "3.0-rc1, 3.0-rc2...."
- stable api with "3.0", minor, non-breaking upgrades with 3.1, 3.2, etc

they want to go and do;
- work on new api constantly, with 3.0, 3.2, 3.4...
- call it stable once they're done with it (3.6)
- while immediately moving on to new unstable api (4.0)

>>60653006
-- also, they express concern that their version numbers won't look nice if they try to do the former
the reason for that it quite simple, their shit is always unstable, so they shouldn't expect to have nice clean numbers

they need to stop trying to pass off numbers like "3.2" as being unstable, it's just confusing to everyone, call it "3.0.r1029", it looks ugly, but tell me, does that look like a development version of 3.0? i think it does, unlike "3.2"

>>60645631
>lxqt is basically alpha
who's feeding you this bullshit
LXQt worked fine when i tried it many months ago

>>60645980
>the fucking shit tier file picker?
may not show multi thumbnails but shit tier? come on desu
how about the fact you can just start typing to search for the filename and find it withing seconds? or the drag and drop from your filemanager?

>>60647934
that's not gnome that's your distro's retarded dependancies