>Computer Science is as much about computers as astronomy

>>60593930
Computer science is about the theory of computation, not about the computational tool itself.

One is a tool. Much like OP.

>>60593930
Computer science is a subset of mathematics and thus a formal science.
It has nothing to do with physical entities.

you're a thick fuck OP. jesus.

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>>60593930
>>>>>Computer Science
>too much bullshit math and not enough practical stuff
>lots of theory with very little trade
>major is completely unusable out school without an internship
>other majors like software engineering or comp engineering are better focused
I would know since I got a CS degree nearly a decade ago and struggled to get on my feet in the industry.

>>60594147
What kind of lazy fuck are you then?

I didn't do any internship at all and I had several job offers before I even graduated.

Clearly your social skills are to blame.

>>60594169
>my LinkedIn account is FLOODED with propositions
So is mine. Have fun at those whiteboard interviews.

>>60594169
In all seriousness, it will be a full decade of work for me in a few months. The hardest work I've done is all the self teaching of practical trade skills and ability to make myself actually usable on the job. Sometimes you get a manager that will help you get started, but most can't be fucked since their burnt out or just don't care. The hardest part of the job most of the time is dealing with the dysfunction that comes out of the business units. Management that has no qualms about shittalking you or your abilities will turn into sackless panderers when dealing with their empty suits.

>>60594207
That's not what I meant, I don't even have a LinkedIn because from what I hear, it's just full of annoying recruiters spamming each other with motivational bullshit and it's basically just yet another social media at this point.

I had already signed a job before I graduated back in 2014. This market is literally screaming for developers and other IT professionals.

"computer science" is quite a misnomer. it should be "computation science", or informatics.

>you have to prove your program is bug free before you test it
what did he meme by this?

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>>60593930
That computer science has a dumb name.

>>60593930
>taking the literal meaning of words instead of trying to figure out what they're referring to

I think everybody agrees that the name is retarded, but the analogy you presented is even worse

>>60594355

I've come to call it "Computation Science + Infomatics"

>>60593930
It's mostly math, used to explain efficiency, and possibility, of solutions to problems.

>>60593930
He's right. That's why it's called 'informatics' in other languages.

>>60594207
Whiteboard interviews are fine anyway. With a little se, and researched problem set, you could probably end up negotiating a higher salary because of it. ANYTIME YOU HAVE THW OPPORTUNITY TO IMPRESS PEOPLE THAT CAN GIVE YOU A LARGER PAYCHECK, DO SO!!!! A whiteboard interview is one such opportunity.

>>60593952

>formal science

top kek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4wg6ZAFIM

Computer Science is applied mathematics. That is all.

>>60594706

Mathematics is applied philosophy

>>60593930
It's about logic, math and finding efficient ways of solving problems.

>>60594706

Sure but CS fags can't into math.

I have a CS degree and have been searching for a year. Only thing I could get is dumb summer job teaching teens C++ , it paid well but it was only for the summer. Wtf do I do, I get no call backs, I call and they either say I'm not what they are looking for or never answer...

>>60595156
Depends on if they went to a meme school or not.

>>60595614
Find a shitty internship for peanuts, stick with it until you can get a real job.
Not nice, but you probably should have done it while in uni so you only have yourself (and the shitty market) to blame.

>>60593930
telescopes = tool to study cosmos
computers = tool to study theories of computation

>>60593930
>What did he mean by this?

It means that as you get higher and higher in CS, things tend to get increasingly theoretical and abstract and mathematical.

You won't notice this at first during your first year in CS, while you're learning to program. It happens more in the upper-level and graduate courses.

I really noticed it at first in programming language design, which was heavy with parsing theory (i.e. construction of LR parsers and so forth). That theory looks like it comes straight out of mathematics. Then there's the "theory of computation" stuff, which also has the look and feel of math.

To see what I mean, google "sentential form", and look at the various course notes, and you'll see a bunch of abstract mathy looking stuff.

As a graduate student, my focus was on parsing theory, which is the branch of CS that defines those "sentential forms". My master's thesis was figuring out the optimal algorithms for constructing parsers when the grammar rules are incrementally added or deleted. It really turned out to be all about graphs and the operations that modify those graphs -- and the level of abstraction was as great as you would typically see in any math dissertation.

>>60593930

What he means is that when I screen applicants for IT positions here, I throw all the CS grads straight into the trash unless they have certs, experience, or some kind of impressive portfolio. A CS degree is basically useless in IT.

>>60595674
Appreciate the advice regardless. I'm with a shitty indie dev team that isn't going anywhere and doesn't pay so that the unemployment gap isn't too suspect and to still work on stuff. But Fuck a year and still nothing? Didn't think it would be this hard as a programmer.

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>>60593930
>What did he mean by this?
That Goto is considered harmful.

>>60596308
Maybe the HR isn't liking that it isn't a respectable company?
Ever thought about getting unpaid internship at something like Jewgle, HP, etc?
Also, where I live there are some jobs that conduct preliminary timed tests, maybe they would look more favorably at you if you solved them in good time with clean code.

>>60595860
As someone with a MS in CS, I can confirm that this is the right strategy.

The core CS courses really don't prepare you to work in IT. They prepare you to be, essentially, a "scientist" -- someone who can take big software engineering problems and analyze and organize them well.

For example, let's say you wanted to develop a graphing calculator like https://www.desmos.com/calculator . In that case, you would hire a CS grad to figure out how to design the architecture of the software. In an app like that, there really isn't much need for the "code monkey" type of developers -- what you need is more "scientists" types who both know the underlying math and can also figure out how to match the software design well with the required functionality.

In IT, what you need is specific experience installing and configuring and troubleshooting all the typical stuff you'll encounter in enterprise infrastructure (OS, apps, switches, etc.) You do need theory in IT, but it's theory that specifically relates to what you'll encounter in IT, like how IP addressing works, for example.

Since IT work is so specialized and well-defined, it's not really something that you would need to get a CS degree to understand -- for IT, it's much better to just have hands-on experience with the actual hardware and software that's typically used. Certs are okay, but actual experience is far, far better.

I've known plenty of CS graduates who have never installed Windows themselves, or know how to partition a network into subnets, or how to configure an Exchange Server, or how to use wireshark to find a rogue machine that's generating excessive traffic, or how to clone a hard disk, or set up PXE boot thin clients, or deploy a web site onto a Linux VPS and configure the domain and certificates correctly. Notice how all that stuff is 100% hands-on work -- experience is everything, and classroom theory really doesn't get you very far.

My CS degree was really more about software engineering. While we had the usual abstract courses, we were also taught the methods used in industry, like properly unit testing and project planning.

While I lived at home for a few months afterwards suffering from imposter syndrome, once I finally sent out resumes I had multiple job offers to be a junior code monkey, mainly from government contractors.

>>60594299
it's screaming for slaves and monkeys

>>60596492
>While I lived at home for a few months afterwards suffering from imposter syndrome

Man up faggot

>>60594480
or that the abbreviation personal computer has a dumb name and that the profession "computer" actually made sense

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I know what he meant

>>60594147
>too much bullshit math and not enough practical stuff
If you wanted PRACTICAL stuff, you shouldn't have done a science degree, you should've done engineering degree.

>tfw CS major
I dont think I want to work in the industry as a programmer or anything
what are my options
I'd like to earn at least $30k annual

>>60594721
Philosophy is applied logic. Logic is a subset of mathematics.

>>60595860
You should throw them out anyway because anyone with a CS degree applying for IT is either an underachiever, an idiot, or someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

I think they refer to CS as Computer & Information Science at my school. Which seems a lot more fitting.

Donald Knuth is the greatest computer scientist.
prove me wrong.
I ordered his TAOCP book set.

>>60597198
Oh gawd. That pic gave me cancer.

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>>60593952
lies and slander.

>>60597243
>Philosophy is applied logic.
You were so close

>>60593930
Computer Science should be renamed to Computation Science

>>60593930
that the only real CS is purely theoretical, which is wrong. doing complex algorithms and shit without taking hardware limitations (cache, etc) into mind makes no sense.

>>60599906
The convenience, however, is that good algorithms tend to exploit cache locality and loop branch optimisations, even without being designed with those in mind. Simply because we tend to design computer architectures that are good to do, you know, computing.

>>60596425

The most that a CS degree really does for you in IT is give you a better shot at understanding how STP works, or enough programming sense to be able to pick up Puppet or coordinate better with dev.

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>>60595860
>throw all the CS grads straight into the trash
This was pretty much how was I was treated out of college until I managed to get a really low end starter position. Even intern applications got me treated this way since existing code monkeys don't want to do any type of training or instruction.

>>60593930
The computer is just a tool. Computer science as a field (not necessarily the degree) is thereoretical; you could produce valuable CS proofs and algorithms without ever touching a computer.

>>60595860
CS grad here

I actually agree with this one. CS is useful if you're building complex things but if you're just gonna do IT you're gonna get much more value out of experience.

>>60597243
Don't you ever confuse logic of philosophy and formal logic of mathematics any more.

>>60594147
>become an architect
Wooooow, why didn't they teach me how to use an excavator so I could dig some earth for my new house?

>>60599696
It should be renamed copy n paste science

>>60593930
CS is applied math, essentially an engineering discipline that operates through the prism of logic rather than physics.

IT is a janitor who fixes ugly beige desktops with a usb key/ghost image rather than toilets with a plunger. it's probably less prestigious, the toilets presumably cost more.

it's fairly obvious that you can study computation empirically, and this is common in practice -- every time you benchmark a software system you are taking an empirical measurement

theoretical models don't accurately predict the behavior (e.g. runtime) of sufficiently large systems, and in some cases it's not even possible for theory to do so (e.g. when the input distribution can't be known, or or the runtime depends on some parameter of the input that can't be realistically found a priori). most algorithms don't even have cache-conscious models, which noises their predictions on real machines by like a factor of 10x. the theory of physics is much, much better at predicting physical results than the theory of computation is at predicting runtime results

in many cases major advancements happen empirically before they are understood theoretically, e.g. "asynchronous" linear algebra algorithms where you remove all the locks, allow data races to occur, completely violate all theory and it still fucking converges to a correct solution. people were doing this in practice long before they understood why it worked

who here has really benchmarked a system, like really? it's incredibly fucking hard to do correctly, it's as hard as any experiment. the fact that the methodology ticks off theoreticians doesn't make the results any less true
-csphd

>>60593945
/thread

A more accurate name (which some universities have adopted) is Computing Science.

>>60594207
Dude whiteboard interviews are like life's cheat code.

You simply pick up a couple of books (CLRS, CtCI), study for about 1 year, make some stupid but cool-sounding projects on Github, spam your resume all over the Bay Area and *bam*, instant six-figure job.

In no other white-collar job on the planet is it that easy to start earning six figures.

>>60594147
Bait. Meant to anger science purists.

>>60596425
Pisses me off that where I live, to do IT they expect a 4yr university degree in CS. I have over 25 years experience in IT and can't even get a rejection letter because I don't have that piece of paper to back me up.

>>60603295
We also configure and maintain critical IT infrastructure. I've hired so many computer scientists and computer engineers who don't even understand the concepts to do IT work. Takes months of training to make them anywhere useful.

>>60603588
yeah but with more plebs entering the field and recruiting software being a shitty list-filter application, you'll continue to have this problem.

you either need to network or just get a shitty BS from somewhere. coworker got a BS in IT in 6 months from WGU (can go as fast as you want).

Just get it over with

>>60603528
Eh, you're right. Interviewing is a skill in and of itself and I just need to put the effort in.

Thanks, motivationanon.

>>60603767
I'll look at that, thanks anon. Doubtful I get into college as there's a huge wait list here. fml