People are saying the guys who distributed the encryption malware

its a nice speculative investment, and a pipe dream for the surveillance state.

As soon as you can connect a person to his bitcoin address you can retroactively track all of his transactions.

>>60530056
>As soon as you can connect a person to his bitcoin address you can retroactively track all of his transactions.

Is the whole point that you cannot connect a person to his bitcoin address/wallet?

How do drug dealers make so much money and not get caught?

Bitcoin original intent was to create inflation in foreign countries, not to be untraceable.

Just don't think on it, the CIA is involved.

>>60530090
>Bitcoin original intent was to create inflation in foreign countries
lol no it wasn't that's ridiculous

If bitcoin were traceable nobody would use it

>>60530106
>lol no

>>60530106
>If bitcoin were traceable nobody would use it
but it is

>>60530106
???

Inherent in the way Bitcoin was implemented is that every transaction is traceable, though. Bitcoin wallets themselves are anonymous, however, but when you've got the whole world watching your transactions, they can easily piece together who you are if you cash out in a silly way.

>>60530066
Drug dealers do money laundering. Exchange drugs for bitcoins, exchange bitcoins for goods or stocks, and then sell goods or stocks for real cash. They do it in increments so large transactions don't flag any suspicions.

>>60530154
>lol no

good argument

>>60530066
>How do drug dealers make so much money and not get caught?

Either laundering or storing it all as cash under their mattress. Paper money exchanged as cash in hand is a hell of a lot easier to conceal than digital transactions...

Yes there is. You basically need to launder it and there are plenty of services that help with this.

>>60530167
Traceable to a person not the blockchain

>>60530183
>Bitcoin wallets themselves are anonymous, however, but when you've got the whole world watching your transactions, they can easily piece together who you are if you cash out in a silly way.

Right, so what would be the smart way to cash out.

If they can figure out who you are by watching you cash out there would be no darknet

>>60530009
Convert to Monero and stealth transfer, then convert back to Bitcoin and cash out.

>>60530219
The smart way to cash out is through laundering goods overtime and not cashing out all at once

>>60530009
The people who have figured out good Buttcoin laundering techniques are unlikely to share them.

>>60530192
So lets say these malware guys went and did the same thing, how would they get caught?

Buy cash or gold on the darknet from a reputable seller.

What is the point of bitcoin in relation to the darknet/silk road type sites if you can't cash out anonymously

Why do knowledgeable hackers want to be paid in bitcoins if they cant cash out?

>>60530208
>>How do drug dealers make so much money and not get caught?
>Either laundering or storing it all as cash under their mattress. Paper money exchanged as cash in hand is a hell of a lot easier to conceal than digital transactions...

I mean dark net market drug dealers

how do they change their bitcoins to cash?

>>60530288
would the goods not have to be sent to your via mail? thus exposing you if the cops were waiting?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mixing_service

>>60530390
Just buy stock online.

>>60530313
>The people who have figured out good Buttcoin laundering techniques are unlikely to share them.

I just don't get it, i thought the wallet was anon and you could trade your coins for money any time you wanted to and it was as anon as your wallet

if you still have to launder the money what's the point

It's pretty easy to cash out. Just find someone who's willing to give you gold or something in exchange for the coins.
Why it's anonymous is you don't know what address is with who. So you can see $90,000 coins going from address 1 to address 2 but what you don't know is that $90,000 worth of gold was exchanged between two people in romania or some shit.

Give it back Tyrone

>>60530351
You can cash out anonymously it's just that you have to be smart about it.

If you were to link your Bitcoin wallet to Coinbase and did a sudden transfer to your bank account of 50k USD worth from bitcoins, your bank would obviously flag you as suspicious and investigate. They are going to wonder where the money came from and if they contact the cashier (coinbase) they can easily give the bank details about you. Coinbase has your bank account information, your billing address, the IP addresses you used to do the transactions,etc. eventually they will dig up dirt on you if you slip up and use that info against you to make an arrest.

>>60530407
You can't buy stock anonymously, you have to go through a broker and make an account tied to your name

>>60530438
Well clearly internationally famous hackers with a known bitcoin wallet number would not do this

so how to do it and "be smart about it"?

>>60530420

But when the NSA/CIA/Whatever sees that 90k leave your famous hacker account they are going to find which wallet it was transferred to, what history the person owning that wallet has (such as selling gold on the darknet) and put the screws to him to find out where he sent the gold

>>60530501
Read the fucking thread. You do money laundering through spaced out transactions. Exchange crypto for gold or other assets. Nobody is going to bat an eye if you trade your bitcoins for a bunch of iPhones or some gold. Then you turn around and resell the gold or iPhones for real cash.

>>60530501
You can sell bitcoins to local traders at a loss, you tumble the coins first then go up to a local exchange and sell them in person for cash.

so nobody gonna mention the elephant in the living room?

>>60530526
That might work if you didn't send out ransomware that crippled hospitals all over the world and ask for bitcoins to be deposited in specific wallets

Now anything those people try to buy, the cops will see money leaving those famous wallets and going to other wallets, if those other wallets have a history of selling iphones or gold, the cops are going to go find the guys who received the famous bitcoins and threaten them with 50 felonies till they say who/where they sent the goods to

To me it looks like the hackers fucked up pretty big time and now can't spend their money/bitcoins

I thought you could get local bitcoins and get money out of an ATM or something like that

>>60530056
Not if they use a good tumbling service for 1%

>>60530587
How can the cops see your wallet transactions if they're anonymous

>>60530219
The smart way would be facilitating a bitcoin to currency exchange on a black market or, better yet, an exchange with an individual straight through the wallet.

Aren't drug dealers on the dark markets using Monero instead now cause of this whole ordeal?

>>60530534
>You can sell bitcoins to local traders at a loss, you tumble the coins first then go up to a local exchange and sell them in person for cash.

That sounds pretty risky when talking about nearly 100grand

>>60530611
They are not anonymous, they can see how much is in your wallet and when you take coins out and which wallet you send them to

>>60530647
That's why you do it in spaced out incremental exchanges. Not all at once.

>>60530647
You do it in parts and get camels to do it for you like skimmers do when they send people to buy shit with skimmed credit cards.
Also like i said you're supposed to tumble them first.

>>60530657
How do the cops find out your wallet address and link it to you if you haven't made any formal centralized bank transfers

>>60530501
>what history the person owning that wallet has
you don't quite get it do you, Wallets do not have owner histories.

>>60530647
>pretty risky
I don't know mang, the alternative is giving the FBI all your fucking information when you've created the most infamous malware of 2017.

>>60530657
Wallets are not tied to physical objects like people, organisations or computers.

>>60530588
>Cops see 90k go to tumbling service from the hacker wallets
>Cops know the money is illegal so they raid the tumbling service and threaten everyone with prison till they cooperate and hand the bitcoins back to the hackers in a way that is traceable
>hackers get busted

>>60530691
>>Cops see 90k go to tumbling service from the hacker wallets
>>Cops know the money is illegal so they raid the tumbling service and threaten everyone with prison till they cooperate and hand the bitcoins back to the hackers in a way that is traceable
You know you don't need to fucking associate yourself with tumbler addresses right?

>>60530628
>The smart way would be facilitating a bitcoin to currency exchange on a black market or, better yet, an exchange with an individual straight through the wallet.

but these coins and wallets are infamous anon, any person who gets stuck with them is going to have the same issue the hackers now have, the whole world and CIA investigating

it's not a random wallet with unknown origin coins in it

now it's like trying to sell the mona lisa

>>60530673
>I don't know mang, the alternative is giving the FBI all your fucking information when you've created the most infamous malware of 2017.

The alternative is publishing the keys to unlock the ransomware computers and walking away and never speaking of it again

is it worth risking 10 international felonies for 90k?

>>60530716
answer this: >>60530671

>>60530739
>The alternative is <not cashing out>
Brah that's 90k buckarooskies. That's cash. Cash money, baby.

>>60530684
>Wallets are not tied to physical objects like people, organisations or computers.

yes but when you pay from one wallet to another they can see that, if the person the hackers attempt to pay has a history of ever doing bank transfers or fucking up being anon 100% in any way, they could get fucked

>>60530706
>You know you don't need to fucking associate yourself with tumbler addresses right?

then what do?

>>60530009
iirc they were demanding $400 from each person, so if they got $90k worth of bitcoin, then they only got 225 people to pay up?
That's not nearly as many people as everyone made it out to be

>>60530746
>>60530671
>>60530671
>How do the cops find out your wallet address and link it to you if you haven't made any formal centralized bank transfers

By watching where you transfer the coins and hoping the person behind that wallet has ever done a bank transfer or worse has a long history of selling gold or drugs and could be found with sufficient detective work

>>60530765
When you send crytpto a wallet, the senders transaction is known. But nobody knows who owns the receiving wallet or how many transactions they received. Only the wallet address owner (the ransomware guys) know.

Now again how do the cops link them to any shit if they don't know who they are or who owns the wallet. They can't monitor the wallet transactions if they aren't the owner.

>>60530009
They could easily run their money through a decentralized mixer

Coins go in, coins go out, in varying amounts to varying addresses so as to obfuscate the original address from the receiving end

>>60530760
>Brah that's 90k buckarooskies. That's cash. Cash money, baby.

Well let's say there are 2 or 3 hackers and each ones take is 30-45k and that they are going to have to take a 20% loss laundering the money or selling it at a discount to move it

is it worth it now?

>>60530611
Because they can - every transaction is written in the blockchain. Also, they know the addresses to watch. It's different from a drug seller or a bomb maker or an arm dealer or a pedophile selling his son or daughter were the police doesn't know the corresponding wallet addresses (but they may guess that if millions worth of bitcoins go to a single unknown address there is something fishy going on).

Did I add enough code words to trigger my post? Good.

>>60530219
>If they can figure out who you are by watching you cash out there would be no darknet
>he doesn't know that's exactly how some onion users have been busted

>>60530812
If they are from 3rd world shithole then yes.

>>60530797
Okay so let's say you transfer the coins to Newegg, aliexpress, and other websites to buy a bunch of chink phones and crap to money launder. How do the cops or Newegg know who the real wallet owner is or how much transactions they done on other websites? For all they know they could have gave them a fake name and everything because the wallet has no evidence of who the owner is unless he has the stuff tied to his bank account (which ransomware dealers won't fucking do)

>>60530802
>Now again how do the cops link them to any shit if they don't know who they are or who owns the wallet. They can't monitor the wallet transactions if they aren't the owner.

I don't think this is true, how do the cops know there is 90k in the wallets if they can't see what is in the wallets coming and going?

>>60530802
>Now again how do the cops link them to any shit if they don't know who they are or who owns the wallet.

They don't right now, but once the money starts moving they can use old fashioned police work to investigate and follow the money.

Also, they probably have warrants and whatever else they need to monitor these specific wallets associated with the paid ransoms.

They are probably all over those wallets like white on rice and will have more info than normal when money is moved out of them

>>60530853
>If they are from 3rd world shithole then yes.

maybe but consider this:>>60530870

>>60530851
citation of this happening?

this thread is dumb

OP drug dealers and ransomware criminals cash out by selling their stuff in small amounts over a long period of time making it harder to track, or they invest it into something else and make back money eventually.

Whether the police catch up to them or not depends on their competency (willing to fucking care when people are committing bigger crimes like smuggling 300lb of coke overseas) and if the wallet owners slip up.

>>60530857
>Okay so let's say you transfer the coins to Newegg, aliexpress, and other websites
Then you are fucked.

FBI/NSA/CIA sees $1312.65 going to a wallet they know is owned by newegg. Newegg is a legit company and does bank deposits and does not hide their income.

FBI goes to newegg warrant in hand and asks what the $1312.65 bitcoin order on 5/23/17 at 11:45:34 PM was for. They find out, they do a controlled delivery and bust the hackers

Is there a statute if limitation on the crimes? They could just let them sit for 20 years. Either they'll be worth nothing or they'll be billionaires

>>60530945
>OP drug dealers and ransomware criminals cash out by selling their stuff in small amounts over a long period of time making it harder to track, or they invest it into something else and make back money eventually.

That works if you have an unknown bitcoin wallet that just happens to have money in it.

That might not work if you ransomware 100 companies and demand coins be sent to wallet X, Y and Z, thus making the contents of those wallets known stolen goods and the wallets themselves open to warrants, super secret NSA monitoring and ongoing investigations by INTERPOL, MI5 and god knows who else

>>60530973

Attempting to access the money would reset the clock and make the crime ongoing

>>60530691
>raid the tumbling service
That would require an opsec error by the team running the tumbler.

>>60530716
There are people that fence bitcoin for a living. The nature of their service is assuming the risk.

what if they give it all to random people or donate it all to EFF?

I suppose a lot of organizations would choose to send it back to some of the wallets it came from originally

>>60531046
>That would require an opsec error by the team running the tumbler.

How, could someone monitoring the original wallet not see an attempt to move the money to a tumbler?

>>60531071
>There are people that fence bitcoin for a living. The nature of their service is assuming the risk.

I bet they would not touch these 3 wallets with a 10 foot poll

>>60530368
They tumble pieces of them to several different accounts. LE doesn't have the resources to devote to tracking through tumblers so they don't bother with anyone except the big guys. It would be extremely painful for them to track every single drug dealer. I dunno if BTC ATMs let you cash out but that would an option too.

>>60531084
that would probably work

>>60531093
>How, could someone monitoring the original wallet not see an attempt to move the money to a tumbler?
Neither of those require the operators to personally identify themselves.

The original intent of posting on 4chan was to deceive.

>>60531093
>I bet they would not touch these 3 wallets with a 10 foot poll
I guarantee you someone would for a 10% cut. They wouldn't offer those services if they weren't generating profits.

>>60531101
>They tumble pieces of them to several different accounts
Starting with the infamous 3 wallets the hackers are using

>>60531101
>LE doesn't have the resources to devote to tracking through tumblers so they don't bother with anyone except the big guys. It would be extremely painful for them to track every single drug dealer.

The CIA is a big guy, these ransomeware fags shut down hospitals and caused real international problems, they would devote the resources. But they would not have to really go tracking through the tumblers, they would just have to know who (which tumbling service) is doing the ransomeware wallet and go over there and arrest them and threaten them with 20 years in prison if they don't help catch the hackers.... say by giving the coins back in some traceable way

I don't think you realize how pissed the goverments of the UK and USA are at these guys

>>60531120
>>How, could someone monitoring the original wallet not see an attempt to move the money to a tumbler?
>Neither of those require the operators to personally identify themselves

no but you would know which tumbling service is being used, that's enough with a crime this serious

>>60531174
Well yeah, the ransomware guys are fucked and will never be able to cash out. The post I was replying to was asking about small guy drug dealers.

>>60531163
I bet every main service that does this on earth has been served with papers by whoever has jurisdiction not to fuck with these 3 wallets or else

sometimes old fashioned police work is effective

I assume you can embed messages for the recipient cryptographically in the transaction-message, and that you can create new wallets en masse anonymously?

1) find high volume tumbler, preferably with random delays before sending out a transaction
2) embed list of subset your wallets in message, send a fraction of the 90k to tumbler
3) your subset of wallets hopefully drowns in the other wallets that use the service
4) to an absolutely minimal extent have your new wallets communicate by sending to eachother

>>60530066
You realize block chain is transparent right? You still have to clean it

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I wonder if the ransomewarefags meant for shit to get this big

I wonder if they just meant to lock down the computers of a few faggots, make a few hundred bucks a few times, then bail.

I wonder if the virus/malware spread too much too fast and they lost control of it and are shitting themselves

They should have used a new wallet for every infection, I bet they could not figure out who has paid and who to send the crypto keys to at this point if they tried

Was getting caught part of their plan?

>>60531174
>Starting with the infamous 3 wallets the hackers are using
It doesn't matter. The bitcoins were purchased from accounts whose victimhood grants them plausible deniability, meaning bitcoins entered the bitcoin ecosystem through untraceable means. They can leave the ecosystem the same way by using compromised wallets to move money through unwilling mules.

>>60531195
>you would know which tumbling service is being used,
They are normally hosted on the dark web.

>>60531310
>It doesn't matter. The bitcoins were purchased from accounts whose victimhood grants them plausible deniability
how so
>>60531310
>bitcoins entered the bitcoin ecosystem through untraceable means.

doubtful, the victimfags probably bought them with a credit card/bank transfer, they are probably very traceable.

>>60531310
They can leave the ecosystem the same way by using compromised wallets to move money through unwilling mules.

first they have to leave the famous 3 wallets everyone is watching, which will leave a trace when moving to a new wallet

>>60531360
you will still see the blockchain of the hacker coins go from one wallet to another

>>60531376
>the victimfags probably bought them with a credit card/bank transfer, they are probably very traceable.
Yea to victim who is an absolved unwilling mule

>>60531395
They also use botnets that incorperate unwitting legitimate entities which muddies the chain legal of possesion.

>>60530672
>you don't quite get it do you, Wallets do not have owner histories.
yes they do it's part of the blockchain

>>60530777
>iirc they were demanding $400 from each person, so if they got $90k worth of bitcoin, then they only got 225 people to pay up?
>That's not nearly as many people as everyone made it out to be

People were not getting their decrypt codes when they paid, others found this out, so people stopped paying

also real organisations with proper Sysadmins and backup just restored and told them to fuck off

>>60531540
90k bitcoins not USD

>>60531569
wow hold up that can not be true, that is an unimaginable amount of dosh

>>60531071
>There are people that fence bitcoin for a living. The nature of their service is assuming the risk.

There are people who fence stolen jewels and goods for a living

I bet they would not touch something like an M16 stolen in a front page around the world robbery from the US Military that's only worth $2000 though

>>60530412
All bitcoin transactions are logged, that's how the the blockchain works
Right now nobody can tie those accounts to a person but if they were to get cashed out to John Doe's bank account obviously Joe Doe is one of the hackers or is working with them

>>60531569
>90k bitcoins not USD

Data from Elliptic Enterprises, a London-based company that tracks illegal bitcoin use, found that, as of Thursday mid-day, the total amount of ransom paid out to the three bitcoin wallet addresses known to be associated with WannaCry totaled just under $86,000 (about 46.4 BTC).

http://www.pymnts.com/news/bitcoin-tracker/2017/bitcoin-tracker-wannacry-doesnt-pay/

>>60531630
Yes I see.

However it seems like the hackers fucked up from the beginning and are never going to be able to cash out now.

this may be right: >>60531288

>>60530009
Buy dogecoin with bitcoin, then buy litecoin with dogecoin, then buy bitcoin with litecoin, then buy normal currency.

You are relying on the exchanges to not rat you out, so pick good ones.

>>60530777
A lot of businesses got fucked, and a lot of damage was done, millions of dollars worth has been spent fixing and restoring not many people paid though- nobody has gotten the decryption info yet

>>60531652
>doesn't pay
I would like 86,000 honestly, and this isn't a too bad of a way to do it.

>>60531724
larger point of the article is they are probably not going to be able to cash out

and causing 20,000,000$ worth of damage while pissing off the FBI and UK government is not really worth the 90k (which no doubt would have to be split between a few hackers), even if you could get it

Better to encrypt the family photos of a few dozen faggots a month and demand $300 bucks a pop then shut down a hospital and hack off the NSA

they may have meant for each infection to go with a wallet (so they would know who paid and who to send the keys to) and only meant to fuck over 3 computers to start off with, but it spread....

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>>60530009
it's quite simple..
1) get in touch with the clintons...
2) split it with someone high up in a "non profit" health care organization
-> added bonus you the ppl/media think you are not a asshole (might play you up as a hero) and if they do catch who you are they will lighten your punishment :D

>>60531288
>Was getting caught part of their plan?

Of course!

Now is not the time for fear, that comes later

>>60531777
yeah, their biggest "mistake" was being so popular. If it had targeted fewer machines they could have gotten away with it

>>60531693
you could do a bunch of exchanges too

>>60530009
Very simple
1) get in touch with Russians
2) have Trump sell you a house for twice what he paid for it, split it with him and Flynn
-->added bonus people will think you are a good business man and the money is laundered, also trump will fire anyone in the FBI if they start investigating

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article137881768.html

>>60531693
>>60531965

>implying this would not leave a chain and that authorities watching the 3 wallets would not catch you in a second

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>>60532024

>election over for 6 months
>B-but Clinton
>B-but healthcare!

>>60530009
Someone who has the know how and the balls to build ransomware and demand payment will know how to cover his tracks and launder his coins.

Last time I checked bitcoin wallets were free, he could bounce that shit and divide it among wallets for eternity, he could trade for alt coins, he could sell to a broker in small increments, he could buy whatever shit and have it dropped to a fake address.

It's not a fucking bank account, the only thing law enforcement have is his wallet address, let them have a blast fucking around the block chain, I'd be fucking amazed if they could catch him, also bitcoin value will take a big ass dive as no one who does shady shit for a living will continue to use it.

>>60532166
>Last time I checked bitcoin wallets were free, he could bounce that shit and divide it among wallets for eternity, he could trade for alt coins, he could sell to a broker in small increments, he could buy whatever shit and have it dropped to a fake address.
none of that is quite so easy when the NSA and MI5 are sitting on your wallet and a team of agents determined to sniff out every transaction or movement from that wallet no matter the cost or time it takes

It's easy to bury 10k in your back yard, but not when you are being staked out by guys in cammo with infrared cameras and FLIR on helicopters 24/7

>>60532049
but if in an exchange I change my BTC for DOGE, or for fucking fastcoins or whatever, there is no trace unless the exchange tells someone about it.
and like I said, lots of exchanges, and there is like localbitcoins and shit to exchange some other coins too

>>60532204
>NSA and MI5
kek you don't understand those organisations at all. Besides, GCHQ is UK's NSA equivalent.

They don't give a flying shit, since it's not like the ransomware guy was the one who stole the exploit, he's just someone who used it.

the FBI is interested though.

>>60532307
I swear the fuckers will get him to work for them if they napped him

There are reputable anonymous bitcoin tumblers on the Tor network they can scramble their BTC in. And furthermore they don't have to put ALL their bitcoin in at once. They can do it over time.

>>60532269
>but if in an exchange I change my BTC for DOGE, or for fucking fastcoins or whatever, there is no trace unless the exchange tells someone about it.

Sure there is, it's called the blockchain. Purchasing dogecoin with btc is no different than buying drugs or anything else with btc. There is a record of the bitcoins in the hackers wallet moving to the wallet used by the dogecoin exchange. There is then a record of the dodge coin moving from the exchange wallet to the wallet designated by the buyer using bitcoins.

Once the FBI sees the hacker bitcoins go to the dogecoin exchange wallet it's going to issue a subpoena for the information about what that person bought at what other wallet he was using

>>60530949
They spend $90k over time buying phones from multiple sites. Use a dropship address. Once they have the phones, they keep em on hand for quite a while. Sell them off once the heat dies down.
>????
>profit.

>>60532307
>They don't give a flying shit, since it's not like the ransomware guy was the one who stole the exploit, he's just someone who used it.

they give a shit anon

Lynne Owens, director general of the NCA, said:

The NCA is leading the criminal investigation into the attack, but for operational reasons we cannot give a running commentary.

Because of the quantity of data involved and the complexity of these kinds of enquiries we need to be clear that this is an investigation which will take time.

But I want to reassure the public that investigators are working round the clock to secure evidence and have begun to forensically analyse a number of infected computers.

Specialist cyber-crime officers from the NCA and our partner regional organised crime units are speaking directly with victims.

That includes visiting NHS sites to help protect victims and secure and preserve evidence. Those visits are continuing.

More than 150 countries have been affected, and we’re in constant communication with international partners, including Europol, Interpol and the FBI and the collaboration has been strong and effective.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/05/15/nhs-cyber-attack-latest-authorities-warn-day-chaos-ransomware/

>>60532377
are you slow or what?
yes, the exchange will know it's you, but not someone from the outside.
my dogecoin wallet and my BTC wallet are completely unrelated, unless I tell somebody that those 2 wallets belong to me.
So the exchange knows, but not anybody else.
My BTC don't just transform into DOGE and leave a trace
my BTC are sent to other BTC wallet, and then some DOGE are transferred from another wallet to my wallet, those 2 steps seem like one, but they are 2 different steps, independent of each other, but the exchanges do the exchange for a small fee.

The only question here is: Do the exchanges tell the FBI if the FBI asks them about your address?
If so, do ALL exchanges do that?
for ALL coins?

>>60532429
>They spend $90k over time buying phones from multiple sites.
did you even read the post you replied to?

>>60532458
The OP states $90k over three addresses.
The $90k is spent, and used up.
I realize what the fuck I replied to.

>>60532442
>yes, the exchange will know it's you, but not someone from the outside.
The law enforcement agencies watching these 3 wallets will know the second any coin is transferred out, and where it is transferred to

>>60532468
What sites do you propose to buy these phones on?

Can someone help me with this retard who doesn't know how to read?
I give up

>>60532479

>>60532509
FBI/INTERPOL/whatever sees coin transferred to exchange wallet
FBI gets warrant
FBI gets information about what was purchased and the new wallet

not complex

>>60530009
buy zcash

sell zcash

profit

>>60532493
>>60532509
Find a legit .onion who sells phones.
Buy some here and there. Find another, buy some more.
Have them sent to dropship address' or dead address'
The FBI cannot track what address it is being sent to, only you (the hacker) and them (the seller) know.
Sure the FBI now knows where the coins went, and to what address. But now they have to investigate THAT address (the receive address)

Hackers get their phones. Seller gets his money. Hackers wait for heat to die down. Eventually a few phones are pushed out into the market, hackers make their money back.

Sure, this takes time. a year if not two. But shit, they can do it. Difficult and time consuming, yes. Impossible, no.

>>60531951
this aspect reminds me of the Morris worm
it was never meant to get out of control
but it did

>>60530945
>selling their stuff in small amounts over a long period of time making it harder to track
It's not any harder to track. It is completely irrelevant if you send 1 btc or 0.0001 from your address, everyone sees where it went instantly.

>>60530009
> take bitcoins
> throw it in bitcoin cleaner
> use new addresses
Congrats you're now untraceable

>>60532594
By the one retards logic;
>throw into bitcoin cleaner
>youz now traceable cause u dun sent bitcoins to a new addy oh noes

>create anonymous account on poloniex via anonymous internet connection
>exchange btc for monero
>withdraw monero
>transfer monero to a fresh wallet
>create another anonymous poloniex account
>exchange monero for btc
>withdraw btc to a fresh wallet
>do this in increments and not like a retard all at once

Have I missed something?

>>60532547
>after the 3rd time you do this the feds figure out one of the wallets you are sending money to is associated with a darknet store selling cell phones
>You keep doing this
>feds buy similar items from seller (they know the price of the items you are buying), receive phones
>trace phones back through mail using old fashioned detective work
>you keep doing this, they get closer to a seller
>finally nab one, find "dead address" you use, have serial number of phone
>you keep doing this, get lazy use the same addy twice, sell one of the phones and it gets activated
>find person who activated it and ask where they bought it
>find hackers or their ebay account/whatever
>busted

don't think they won't invest the resources in this particular case

>>60532642
>>exchange btc for monero
which of course leaves no record in the blockchain at all!
>>60532642
>>do this in increments and not like a retard all at once
which does not leave many records showing a pattern in the blockchain of your bitcoins at all!

You can always convert that to Darkcoin, if anyone would be willing to sell them to you.

>>60532665
You're assuming that they would buy shit just to track someone.
>trace phones back through mail using old fashioned detective work
There is nothing in this sentence factual. You're making shit up as you go.
>you keep doing this, get lazy use the same addy twice, sell one of the phones and it gets activated
Implying they'd use the same address twice, like an idiot.
>you keep doing this, get lazy use the same addy twice, sell one of the phones and it gets activated
>find person who activated it and ask where they bought it
As if I were going to sell it to simple minded individuals (like yourself)
>find hackers or their ebay account/whatever
Again, as if I were going to sell it to simple minded individuals. Even worse, implying id sell it on fucking eBay.
Use your brain Anon.

Find one guy who will sell you gold coins

buy 70 or whatever 1oz gold coins on darknet all at once, have them sent to fake addy

PRAY TO GOD the feds did not catch this before it was shipped, show up at fake addy and get your gold if you are lucky

sell the coins to pawn shops one at a time over a long while

never speak of it again

>this could work

>>60532693
This fucking retarded and his blockchain record spiel. Fucking end it already Anon. Slit your throat.
You're not proving a god damn point besides you know how to repeat yourself.

>>60532710
>You're assuming that they would buy shit just to track someone.
I sure am

they have done it before with people selling machine guns on the silk road

If they can trace one phone to you by serial number and it gets activated ur fucked

>>60532710
>Implying they'd use the same address twice, like an idiot.

Implying they would only use 3 wallets like idiots

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/wannacry-ransomware-hackers-made-real-amateur-mistakes/

>>60532727
>This fucking retarded and his blockchain record spiel.
sorry you don't know how the blockchain works, sorry you think bitcoins just disappear without a trace when spent

>>60532758
Show me anywhere, ANYWHERE that provides evidence of the FBI or whomever purchasing items, just to track a darkweb/Tor seller. Ill wait.

As for the 3 wallets. Its not an amerature mistake, or a mistake at all. 3 wallets, that means they have to keep eyes on 3 different sources of traffic. If one lights up, it distracts them from the others.

Oh sorry, I may just be >implying, everything like you.

>>60532771
No one claimed they did, but you cant refute anything anyone has said besides "oh muh recurds and muh blockcheen"

>>60530691
You don't tumble them all at once silly, ideally you would tumble them in small batches over months

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>>60530351
A hacker is someone who enjoys playful cleverness--not necessarily with computers. The programmers in the old MIT free software community of the 60s and 70s referred to themselves as hackers. Around 1980, journalists who discovered the hacker community mistakenly took the term to mean "security breaker."

Please don't spread this mistake. People who break security are "crackers."

what if

get this

what if they

guys

what if they just steal someone's identity

and use that to cash out

>>60532838
Well now, I'm pretty sure that'd be illegal, friendo.

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>>60532852

>>60532852
If they get caught they're going to be serving consecutive life sentences in about 50 different 3rd world shit holes.

I don't think they care at this point.

>>60532933
Your sarcasm detector is off by a tad.

>>60532962
I don't use browser plugins.

Can't you just buy drugs with it online? What are they gonna do, ask someone selling heroin online for the shipping address?
Now that I think about it, I would probably give it out.

>>60532816
just give up on it
it might not be as lost a cause as trying to enforce the shitty GNU/-meme but it is up there

>>60532693
The trace ends with monero. Thats the whole fucking point.

>>60532777
>Show me anywhere, ANYWHERE that provides evidence of the FBI or whomever purchasing items, just to track a darkweb/Tor seller. Ill wait.

police carry out "undercover or covert operations" to find out more about deep-web drug marketplaces. Police often pose as buyers, sellers, or people who help run the site in order to disrupt operations and reveal the identities of key users.

http://www.businessinsider.com/methods-that-police-use-to-catch-deep-web-drug-dealers-2016-8

>and remember this would not be to bust a cell phone dealer but hackers who did 60,000,000 dollars in damage around the world

>>60532798
>No one claimed they did, but you cant refute anything anyone has said besides "oh muh recurds and muh blockcheen"

But it a direct refute to "this is untraceable" to point out the blockchain and fundamental nature of bitcoin

>>60532838
they still have to somehow take physical possession of the money, and they can never be sure it's not a bust when doing so

>>60533081
>Can't you just buy drugs with it online?
that might be their best bet, but they still have to have it delivered and they can never really know it's not the cops who have intercepted the order coming for them

>>60533161
Given the feds are camping out on that wallet, would you risk it?

they could just use coinjoin/a mixer to get fresh coins out

>>60533882
i wonder why they don't if it's so easy

>>60533911
speculating on price
hoping more people pay the ransom

>>60534011
people are done paying the ransom

they never sent out any keys because they only had 3 wallets and lost track of which victim was which, the deadline for paying the ransom has passed

everyone infected is fucked

>>60530208
>Paper money exchanged as cash in hand is a hell of a lot easier to conceal than digital transactions...
Easy to track if the notes are fresh

What countries don't extradite?

move there and then buy 90k of that currency

>>60530009
>will be caught if they cash out their bitcoins.
As if... they're capable enough to use tor to spread the malware, I'm sure they were capable enough to avoid getting caught trading the BTC.
Masking your identity when trading BTC isn't complicated, I haven't bothered to use BTC in years but back then I remember finding plenty of ways to do this, even though I never had the chance to do it.

>what is grams helix

>>60534527
>I'm sure they were capable enough to avoid getting caught trading the BTC.

They have yet to attempt to touch their bitcoins despite the virus being killed, despite the time running out for their victims to get their info back.

My guess is they will never even attempt to get those coins. They know they fucked up and won't get away with that money

>>60530009
It's extremely difficult to cash out bitcoins when you have nation state level resources after you like these ransomware guys from Best Korea(tm) and major drug trafficking like Silk Road or other Tor hidden services being chased by the FBI.

If anybody remembers that scammer pirateat40, they should looks at the extremely detailed report the SEC did on tracing every single one of his bitcoins and where they went. Pages and pages of details of every movement it's not difficult to trace bitcoin even if you use a tumbler, for many reasons detailed on bitcointalk over the years.

That's why Zcash was invented to prevent tracing (note, not Zcoin, Zcash).

As for the ransomware guys they are all org crime connected/nation state connected so they can safely cash out through a network of criminals in China and Russia and disappear with the cash into North Korea.

There are tumblers for coins but I wouldn't trust those services, many of them could disappear or be informants

>>60534632
It's common for criminals to not move coins that fast though, like after multiple online wallet hacks/fraud and scam artist drugmarket sysadmins who ran off with everything. They typically let them all sit somewhere too for months until moving them my guess is they will sell them off directly to people themselves p2p for cash in China.

>>60534728
every person who gets one of these tainted bitcoins in a p2p transaction is going to be interviewed by law enforcement to find the guys who sold it

all it takes is one of those people to deposit a bitcoin with a reputable institution, get caught for having ransomware profits, and rat out the hacker

>>60534684
>If anybody remembers that scammer pirateat40, they should looks at the extremely detailed report the SEC did on tracing every single one of his bitcoins and where they went. Pages and pages of details of every movement it's not difficult to trace bitcoin even if you use a tumbler, for many reasons detailed on bitcointalk over the years.

If this is true, how will this help


>As for the ransomware guys they are all org crime connected/nation state connected so >they can safely cash out through a network of criminals in China and Russia

The coins will always remain tainted via the blockchain, what would a criminal do with them?

Is the best option for the hackers to forget the money and just walk away?

>be hacker
>get job as mailman
>work for like a year, get to know your route and what kinds of packages you handle
>buy bars of platinum on the darknet with all your coins
>have them delivered to some home on your route
>if the cops intercept the package and want to deliver it with a swat team, well then it's over but at least you didn't get busted, act natural and quit in a few months
>if the package comes into your possession on your truck without incident you take it

fool proof plan

checkmate

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>>60530009
>pay some random hooker 500$ to use her bank details
>cash out
>there, untraceable

Come on man, criminality is not rocket science

>pay for coin from coin shop
>arrange to meet with seller
>pay Alzheimer's patient to walk into store and pick up coin (write him a note he can read so he does not fuck up)
>enjoy $95,000 penny you can sell any time to some rich pennyfag

problem solved

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1798-7-S-151-R-3-PCGS-MS-62-BN-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent-Coin-1c-Great-Provenance-/282456901777?hash=item41c3be4891:g:m4wAAOSwONBZCG1a

>find illegal immigrant
>go to sanctuary city
>have him open bank account
>transfer him the money, he gives it to you
>he can't be prosecuted because it's a sanctuary city
>thank Obama for your new riches

>rape some girls
>move into Ecuadorian Embassy
>cash out your bitcoins
>use the cash to light cigars and fuck hookers on the balcony, there is nothing the UK or anyone can do
>release more malware and shut down the UK
>demand the Queen's diamond hat and scepter for the encryption code
>live rest of life in diamond encrusted luxury while eating tacos with fags from wikileaks

>>60534870
If they were smart the best option would be to walk away as hackers always get caught moving the money around.

However they're likely NK agents working out of the embassy in China so nothing will happen to them.

>>60535326
>However they're likely NK agents working out of the embassy in China so nothing will happen to them.

I srsly doubt China would want this kind of publicity over 90k

what makes you think they are norks and not teenage russians or anyone else?

Sure blame China

It was probably English people desu

>>60530009
Should have used Monero/XMR

>>60530009

technicality aside, they have other resources they can use to track you down. Like social engineering.

>>60535922
They should have not let it get so big, or if they were going to let it get this big, have a plan to haul in 10million dollars (at least) and a plan to get away with it. They also should have been set up to send keys to people who paid (they never did) and to charge based on the size of the target. A whole hospital or a company with assets? That's gonna be a million bucks to unlock. Some faggots computer? $200

They had no real chance to make money in proportion to the damage and disruption they were causing and no way to cash out.

maybe they were just script kiddies who fucked up

It's like threatening to take down a jumbo jet unless someone gives you 50 bucks, then having no way to get the 50 bucks and fucking up the jumbo jet anyway

it's like they want to be caught

>>60535934
Interesting

Can you speculate how that could work in this case specifically?

>>60530009
Proof Bitcoin is run by the CIA and not save or Anon when moving money. They just ignore small time weedfags but if you make headlines or bank they will find you just like they did the silk road guy

Life without the possibility of parole, just for trying to run an anonymous market

>>60536441
safe or anon

>>60532816
HOL' UP
WUZ YOU SAYIN'

Not a cryptofag, but afaik there are coins that don't save transactions in the blockchain, so if it's possible to exchange those BTCs anonymously to one of those coins, then it should be easy to hide your traces by simply moving the coins to another wallet, and nobody would know where the money went.

The law enforcement would notice that the BTCs have left the high-profile wallets for one that's known for being owned by an exchange, so they'd ask them to give all info they have, which would be some useless or fake data about the person, and the altcoin wallet they got sent the money to.
All useless info because the fake IDs can be bought anonymously on Tor, and the altcoin wallet won't tell them which other wallet got the coins.

Did I get this right?

>>60536962
Pretty much. I'd leave these wallets alone for a 5 months to a year before diffusing them into several other cryptocurrencies.

>>60536962
>Not a cryptofag, but afaik there are coins that don't save transactions in the blockchain, so if it's possible to exchange those BTCs anonymously to one of those coins

no this is not true, the block chain is proof the bitcoin is real. Without it people could just say "I own bitcoin number 354643" and who could prove they didn't?

The only way to prove a bitcoin is real is to have a record of every wallet it has been transferred from and to, when you exchange your bitcoin for another coin the person who gets your bitcoin must log that it came from your wallet and is now in his wallet, or it disappears and becomes worthless.

So if you want to buy drugs from me, or dogecoins or whatever I MUST make sure your bitcoin is real (has a history/blockchain) and then record it in my wallet, the person I transfer it to when spending it does the same.

>>60536962
>The law enforcement would notice that the BTCs have left the high-profile wallets for one that's known for being owned by an exchange, so they'd ask them to give all info they have, which would be some useless or fake data about the person, and the altcoin wallet they got sent the money to.
>All useless info because the fake IDs can be bought anonymously on Tor, and the altcoin wallet won't tell them which other wallet got the coins.

Not really, with this attitude you could just "buy a fake id on Tor and cash out your bitcoins"

altcoin wallets are notorious for getting hacked and being unreliable for large stores of value. and yes the altcoin wallet would tell them which other wallet then got the coin, without being able to do that anyone could just say "I have an altcoin wallet with a million dollars in it" and nobody could disprove it, without a detailed record of where every coin comes from and goes to the authenticity of any coin is unverifiable

can you buy a house with bitcoins?

>>60537550
>no this is not true, the block chain is proof the bitcoin is real. Without it people could just say "I own bitcoin number 354643" and who could prove they didn't?
>The only way to prove a bitcoin is real is to have a record of every wallet it has been transferred from and to, when you exchange your bitcoin for another coin the person who gets your bitcoin must log that it came from your wallet and is now in his wallet, or it disappears and becomes worthless.
>So if you want to buy drugs from me, or dogecoins or whatever I MUST make sure your bitcoin is real (has a history/blockchain) and then record it in my wallet, the person I transfer it to when spending it does the same.
Are you talking about Bitcoin or all cryptocurrencies?
Because I'm talking about other non-Bitcoin cryptos that supposedly have the feature of not showing where the money went (I heard Monero has that but I'm not sure).

>Not really, with this attitude you could just "buy a fake id on Tor and cash out your bitcoins"
Yes, my strategy was an idea on how to do that.
I mean, the fake ID part is just one of the steps, and if you're trying to launder something this high-profile, not using your real name is the very basic protection you must have.

>altcoin wallets are notorious for getting hacked and being unreliable for large stores of value.
Do it in multiple small transactions then (which you should do anyway).

>the altcoin wallet would tell them which other wallet then got the coin, without being able to do that anyone could just say "I have an altcoin wallet with a million dollars in it" and nobody could disprove it, without a detailed record of where every coin comes from and goes to the authenticity of any coin is unverifiable
Weird.
Then all the talk about some specific altcoins using some tricks to hide transaction infos and have anonimity was just some fingerbox-type trolling?
Are you really sure that absolutely no altcoin can hide/mask transaction info?
Can anyone confirm?

>go to starbucks
>send some of the coins to a famous bitcoin bank address
>send all of the sent coins from the famous bitcoin bank address to a new wallet for cash out at a real bank

Repeat

90k isn't even worth it for the level of coverage this has received.

If I were the creator of wannacry I would leave that shit for dead, but clearly the authors aren't very intelligent anyway.

>>60533081
this is the biggest risk with buying drugs online, vendors have no reason to cover your sorry ass if they get busted.

Proper opsec covers this risk however.

>>60538433
>Because I'm talking about other non-Bitcoin cryptos that supposedly have the feature of not showing where the money went (I heard Monero has that but I'm not sure).

The bitcoins now exist, blockchain and all. The tainted bitcoins are in tainted wallets being watched by every major law enforcement agency . The bitcoins are what must be taken out and exchanged for something else. Had they started with Monero that would not be the case, however they have to talk someone into giving them Monero for the tainted bitcoins, get them out of the wallet without getting caught and transfer them to another wallet without getting caught, there is no way around that. It's a huge risk.

nobody with any sense would take those bitcoins in exchange for anything else

doing it in many small transactions just means you have to log in and fuck with the tainted coins with their monitored blockchains in the NSA monitored wallets more than once thus increasing your risk

>>60538433
>Then all the talk about some specific altcoins using some tricks to hide transaction infos and have anonimity was just some fingerbox-type trolling?
>Are you really sure that absolutely no altcoin can hide/mask transaction info?

maybe if you start off with the altcoins/Monero and not blockchained bitcoins

but when you publish your bitcoin wallets, demand coins be sent there in an extortion/terrorist plot you have created things that have to be tracked to have value, no blockchain, no value.....AND told the FBI, NSA, CIA, UK government, and everyone else on earth "HEY WATCH WHAT I AM DOING, NOW WHO WANTS TO BUY THESE ILLEGAL BITCOINS FROM ME WITH UNIQUE ID NUMBERS"!?!?

>>60538530
>>send some of the coins to a famous bitcoin bank address
>>send all of the sent coins from the famous bitcoin bank address to a new wallet for cash out at a real bank

Famous bank sees wallet they are coming from, logs coin blockchain, FBI is watching the wallet and tainted bitcoins leave the wallet and go to the bank: subpoenas the bank, asks where the coins are going, now you have the same problem with the new wallet and if you fucked up and revealed your IP or what starbucks you were at ur busted

>>60538573
>Proper opsec covers this risk however.
how you still have to take physical possession of the drugs

you can never really be sure it's not a sting via a seller who got busted

http://gawker.com/redditor-claims-to-have-been-arrested-for-buying-drugs-1444086695

>>60538561
>90k isn't even worth it for the level of coverage this has received.

this

i think they fucked up and it got out of hand and they were not expecting it

>write a virus that scams plebs and gathers 90k in a few weeks
>know you can never touch the money or you'll go to prison but you made national news and are still free
>take it as a learning experience
Only anons know this feel

>>60531708
the encryption keys were randomly generated on the infected computer. There is no key that will decrypt all infected comps.

>>60538754
>>60538783
Yes.
My main doubt was wether it's possible or not to exchange the BTCs for Moneros.
If there's a way, then the plan should work, correct?

For example, let's say they move the BTCs from the 3 wallets to some new ones and immediately start tumbling them to a new wallet using a Tor tumbler.
Then, use some fake IDs to register on Poloniex or similar, and exchange your newly-tumbled BTCs for some Moneros (which you then cash out, then move to a new wallet).

This way, the police would see the money going from your wallets to the tumbler and would have to spend time finding the output wallets (which nobody except you and the tumbler know is the new home of the ransomeware money), so you'd have the time to go exchange it for the Monero (which would be easy, since for that time window your BTCs would be clean in the eyes of the exchange and the police) and cash out.

Even if they manage to get the tumbler operators and force them to spill the beans on you, it would take them enough time for the conversion to Monero to take place.

To mitigate the risk of some tumblers being compromised or fucking up, you could diversify among multiple ones (which would also spread the police thinner) with smaller transactions and exchange the outputted BTC gradually, so if you get caught you only lose the amount you'd be exchanging at that moment (and those already done to that point would be cashable Moneros, and those not yet exchanged would simply be like when you started).

>>60538931
>what is tumbling

Anon, please. The thing you faggots are all forgetting about is:

1. Wallets can be created out of thin air

2. It is hard, if not impossible, to differentiate tumbling from normal transactional flow.

>>60538942
>the encryption keys were randomly generated on the infected computer. There is no key that will decrypt all infected comps.

There should be a unique key per computer though

>>60539000
>My main doubt was wether it's possible or not to exchange the BTCs for Moneros.
>If there's a way, then the plan should work, correct?

if the wallet were not being spyed on and monitored and having god knows what done to it by the NSA, then yes

it's easy to get away with shit when nobody is looking, it's hard to launder money when the money has a unique ID code that must be transferred to cash out and the cops know it and are watching

>>60539017
>2. It is hard, if not impossible, to differentiate tumbling from normal transactional flow.
probably true if the coins in question were not being watched before the tumbling begins

>>60538942
yeah but there's no way to find it without brute force. Even then that could take years and would only decrypt that specific HDD, making it pointless.

>>60530009
>They have $90,000 in bitcoins spread over 3 accounts.
That's it?

>>60539082
>it's hard to launder money when the money has a unique ID code that must be transferred to cash out and the cops know it and are watching

Step 1: Write a script to create new wallets and send fractions of the original balance to each one

Step 2: Each other wallet does the same thing

Step 3: Eventually, 20,000 transactions later, these wind up being given to someone else to convert

Step 4: "Wasn't me officer, check one of the other 19,999 transaction owners."

Step 5: ????

Step 5: Profit!

>>60539096
You're not getting me man. If the crook's wallet sends their BTC to another wallet, the authorities have no way of knowing who that second wallet belongs to.

Did the malware writer pay someone for something, or did he just move the money to another wallet under his own control? You won't know this.

>>60532439
You just quoted the NCA not the NSA idiot

>>60539082
I understand this.
That's why the rest of my post (that you seem to have ignored) is an idea on how to solve this problem by having your money be on an nmonitored wallet for a limited time through tumblers, so you can exchange the BTCs to Moneros and use those to hide your tracks.

>>60532613
Read up on how a tumbler works and then neck yourself retard.

>>60530009
Does not matter because as long as they can use the bitcoin in exchange for something that's not money they win.

>>60539121
they done goofed

>>60539123
>Step 4: "Wasn't me officer, check one of the other 19,999 transaction owners."

Officer: "You seem to know a lot about bitcoin, and aren't you a shady looking computer guy? What do you do for a living? Oh, you're a programmer, where were you in may 2017? If I interview everyone you know will they think maybe you were in on the virus? May I have a look at your computers?"

>>60539178
You will know the coins are now in the new wallet and to watch them for being cashed out, move that shit around all you want

i want to see you cash it out

>>60539190
>You just quoted the NCA not the NSA idiot
in response to someone saying the brits don't care....

>>60539229
>Does not matter because as long as they can use the bitcoin in exchange for something that's not money they win.

been discussed, not likely to work

>>60539364
No he said intelligence agencies don't care

>>60539379
>No he said intelligence agencies don't care
kek you don't understand those organisations at all. Besides, GCHQ is UK's NSA equivalent.

They don't give a flying shit, since it's not like the ransomware guy was the one who stole the exploit, he's just someone who used it.

>above is talking about the UK

the FBI is interested though.

>he admits the FBI cares (they are an intelligence agency) and it's been established the NSA gives a huge shit

reading comprehension

>>60539412
Who is they in the first paragraph? It's the intelligence agencies both British and American.

>reading comprehension

>>60530611
GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT.

>>60530802
>They can't monitor the wallet transactions if they aren't the owner.
But they can.

>>60539502
>Who is they in the first paragraph? It's the intelligence agencies both British and American.

Yes and I posted a quote by UK intel that they did in fact care, the FBI cares, and we sure fucking know the NSA cares

thus proving him wrong

not complex

>>60530009
exchange them for monero, which unlike BTC is private/anonymous and then back for bitcoin. Untraceable

>>60539598
Because the bitcoins disappear when you use them to buy monero

>>60539625
once you get the monero it's not your problem anymore where the bitcoins go.

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>>60539326
>>>60539123
>>Step 4: "Wasn't me officer, check one of the other 19,999 transaction owners."
>Officer: "You seem to know a lot about bitcoin, and aren't you a shady looking computer guy? What do you do for a living? Oh, you're a programmer, where were you in may 2017? If I interview everyone you know will they think maybe you were in on the virus? May I have a look at your computers?"

>>60539668
>once you get the monero it's not your problem anymore where the bitcoins go.
implying merely accessing that bitcoin wallet for a transfer would not be suicide right now

>>60531288
According to https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/what-you-need-know-about-wannacry-ransomware, the ransomware was supposed to use a uniquely generated bitcoin wallet, but they cocked that up, so it defaulted to the three wallet addresses you're hearing about now.

As you may have already guessed by now, the wallets are probably under a fucking scanning electron microscope by Law Enforcement.

>>60539803
How?
I thought the blockchain didn't save the IP of the users, and even if it did, you can always use Electrum on Tails.

This post [>>60539000] outlines a strategy that I think would work, and is doable in complete anonimity using Tor and if needed some proxies to spoof location.
I really don't see how it wouldn't work.

>>60530009
Hi malware author.

I would recommend shapeshifting your Bitcoin to Monero. You could shift to something else from there, cash out, or buy some drugs.

>>60539840
I bet they fucked the wallet generation too, so they couldn't access it even if they wanted.

Has any movement taken place or they're staying away from them for the time being?

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>>60531310
It is a mistake to describe the free software community, or any human community, as an "ecosystem," because that word implies the absence of ethical judgment.

The term "ecosystem" implicitly suggests an attitude of nonjudgmental observation: don't ask how what should happen, simply study and explain what does happen. In an ecosystem, some organisms consume other organisms. We do not ask whether it is fair for an owl to eat a mouse or for a mouse to eat a plant, we only observe that they do so. Species' populations grow or shrink according to the conditions; this is neither right nor wrong, merely an ecological phenomenon.

By contrast, beings that adopt an ethical stance towards their surroundings can decide to preserve things that, on their own, might vanish--such as civil society, democracy, human rights, peace, public health, clean air and water, endangered species, traditional artsâ¦and computer holders' freedom.

>>60539840
>According to https://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/what-you-need-know-about-wannacry-ransomware, the ransomware was supposed to use a uniquely generated bitcoin wallet, but they cocked that up, so it defaulted to the three wallet addresses you're hearing about now.

yeah without that how could they know who paid?

>>60539840
>As you may have already guessed by now, the wallets are probably under a fucking scanning electron microscope by Law Enforcement.

god only knows what they are doing, I am sure they have access to it and ways of seeing who tries to access it that we can't even imagine

>>60539860
>I thought the blockchain didn't save the IP of the users, and even if it did, you can always use Electrum on Tails.

The FBI and NSA and CIA and James Bond and Q and INTERPOL and Data from Star Trek are watching that wallet right now, no VPN or encryption could save anyone trying to access it right now
>>60539860
>outlines a strategy that I think would work, and is doable in complete anonimity using Tor and if needed some proxies to spoof location.
>I really don't see how it wouldn't work.

it won't work because the game has changed, this is not just accessing something via tor anymore, the cops are monitoring everything around that wallet and packet sniffing all traffic and who knows what else, I am sure they want the hackers to access it in the worst way

I don't know exactly what they are doing, but they can monitor basically all traffic on the net and are throwing huge resources after finding these guys

what you are saying would work for your average random drug dealer, but these guys have invited the wrath of nation states, out in the open

>>60539880
>Has any movement taken place or they're staying away from them for the time being?
they are wisely staying away

File: 1420122545588.png (818KB, 865x859px) Image search: [Google]

818KB, 865x859px

>>60539969
>The FBI and NSA and CIA and James Bond and Q and INTERPOL and Data from Star Trek are watching that wallet right now,

>>60530851
onion users were busted due to javascript exploits

>>60530009
>what is a bitcoin tumbler

>>60539969
>I don't know exactly what they are doing, but they can monitor basically all traffic on the net and are throwing huge resources after finding these guys
>what you are saying would work for your average random drug dealer, but these guys have invited the wrath of nation states, out in the open
Did you read the entire post?
The strategy is about using the tumbler to buy some time to be able to exchange to Monero.
The only way the strategy would fail, is that they're able to neutralize multiple tumblers IMMEDIATELY, so when you start exchanging at Poloniex they can stop you, and even then they wouldn't be able to tie those transactions to your real identity.

Since neutraliing the tumblers would take them longer than it would take you to get the Monero, I still think this plan will work.

And it has even more chances of working the more time passes (as the police will reduce this case's priority).

ITT people who still believe that intelligence agencies and international police organizations have magic computer powers.

You know how you get around this "problem?" Wait 6 months until Trump starts WW3 or somebody hacks Sony for the five millionth time or some mudslimes blow something big up or something else happens to divert resources to something more pressing. Then, start laundering your money through a variety of different means.

And remember, whomever did this is almost certainly living in some shit hole like Mongolia where the local government will only do something if they get pressured by the international community and/or have an extradition treaty with the UK or the US. And nobody is going to give two thirds of a half of a tenth of a rat shit about this in a few months. So even somebody figures out who did this, they probably won't be able to do anything about it.

>>60540077
>The only way the strategy would fail, is that they're able to neutralize multiple tumblers IMMEDIATELY,

or if they can figure out who you are the second you access the wallet

or if they have corrupted the wallet in some way making it inaccessible

or if they are just going to let you do whatever you want because they don't actually care about the money and will monitor and trace all your traffic while fucking with the wallet

that wallet is their bitch right now, normal rules do not apply

normally you could bury a body in your back yard with nobody knowing, but not when the feds have FLIR drones circling your house 24/7

>>60540091
>ITT people who still believe that intelligence agencies and international police organizations have magic computer powers.
they basically do, especially if you give them a target and a reason to get you

they blew up Iran's nuke program with a USB stick

they can fucking monitor a single bitcoin wallet whose owners did 60,000,000 in damage and made the NSA look bad

They do not forgive, they do not forget. Expect them

>>60540132
>or if they can figure out who you are the second you access the wallet
How exactly?

>or if they have corrupted the wallet in some way making it inaccessible
Wut?

>or if they are just going to let you do whatever you want because they don't actually care about the money and will monitor and trace all your traffic while fucking with the wallet
They can't if you do the steps to the Monero exchange without doing anything that's tied to yor real identity.
After you get the Monero and move it to a new wallet it becomes impossible to trace your movements.

>that wallet is their bitch right now, normal rules do not apply
They didn't ascend into sci-fi just because of a high-profile criminal.
Technology isn't limitless, and said limits still apply to the police.

>normally you could bury a body in your back yard with nobody knowing, but not when the feds have FLIR drones circling your house 24/7
Your analogy is the other way around.
The police isn't circling the hacker's house waiting for him to do something.
They're circling the bag of money that got robbed from the bank and are waiting for the robber to show up and get the money.
Luckily the robbery took place on the Internet, where the robber can do things like moving the bag around without the police knowing his identity, so they're waiting for him to take it home so they can look up who lives there and tie the robbery to a real person.

Everything you said is just your fantasy about how powerful LEAs are.
Please provide proof of them being able to foil my strategy.

>>60540167
True, they CAN do incredible things. But, what I meant is that they can't just have some dudes arrested with a keystroke. There's gotta be actual police work done, and that requires institutional bandwidth. And if there's an international element, there's gotta be multinational political cooperation.

Just look at the Guardians of Peace hack at Sony. It's been over 3 years and nothing has happened. Nobody even remembers that shit anymore, let alone cares about. I know people whose lives were ruined by that shit. And Sony paid out millions in damages. And not a single arrest.

Granted, it's a different kind of hack. But, there's a lot of friction when shit needs to get done in the physical world.

>>60540267
>>or if they can figure out who you are the second you access the wallet
>How exactly?

By monitoring all traffic remotely near the wallet, and all that traffic's traffic and on and on, preemptively

I don't fucking know, but I do know if I had done this I would consider that 90k g

GONE
O
N
E

and forget about it and live free

you think the NSA tells us all it's monitoring spy secret shit and how they do it? They found the silk road guy, they blew up nuke reactors with code that were air gapped, they can find some faggot with a bitcoinwallet who is trying to launder his shit, especially given they know which coins/blockchains he's after and what wallet they are in and the fact they have the help of any nation they want and warrants to do whatever they feel like

>>60540286
>Just look at the Guardians of Peace hack at Sony. It's been over 3 years and nothing has happened.
they retaliated, the retaliation was classified

god only knows what they did

>>60540267
>They didn't ascend into sci-fi just because of a high-profile criminal.
>Technology isn't limitless, and said limits still apply to the police.

I know it's not, that's why them having their arms around that wallet, unlimited resources, the ability to do things that would be breaking the law to us and unfettered network access could allow them to find some faggot accessing a wallet, Tech is not limitless, and that applies to the hackers too, just trying the usual method of laundering the coins will have been thought of by the NSA

>>60532537
/thread

>>60540310
>By monitoring all traffic remotely near the wallet, and all that traffic's traffic and on and on, preemptively
Is that even possible?

>>60540310
>They found the silk road guy
He made a ton of extremely retarded mistakes and it still took them years.

>they blew up nuke reactors with code that were air gapped
By literally leaving infected flash drives in the parking lot and hoping some dumb employee would stick them into one of the internal computers.
And it still took them years and billions of dollars.

>they can find some faggot with a bitcoinwallet who is trying to launder his shit
Just because the crime is small or made by a small entity it doesn't mean it's easier to catch.
In fact it's harder due to the small scale of the operation.
Just like it's impossible to catch some types of crime, because when the crimes are small-time it's easier to do things that mask them. Whether it's a single cop looking for them or it's all the world's cops.

>>60540342
You keep avoiding all my questions.
I ask you simple questions about how exactly they'd find him after he does X Y Z, and you keep answering "I don't know, but I'm sure they must be capable of doing it somehow because they're capable of anything if they really want".

There are at this exact moment far bigger targets with far more resources dedicated to their hunt, and they're still not finding them.

Do I have to remind you about how long it took them to find Bin Laden?
He moved millions of actual Dollars in actual bank accounts and they still couldn't trace him.

Same goes for any major terrorist group, mafia family, cartel, etc.
All many times more important than this ransomware author, and almost all still free despite using real money instead of anonymous cryptos.

>>60530009
doesn't your back get sore from lying tied up like that all night?

>>60540565
>>By monitoring all traffic remotely near the wallet, and all that traffic's traffic and on and on, preemptively
>Is that even possible?
with the resources and legal authority, yes
>>60540565
>He made a ton of extremely retarded mistakes and it still took them years.
took them years to lock up an iron clad case, they had known it was him for ages

>>60540565
>Just because the crime is small or made by a small entity it doesn't mean it's easier to catch.
in this case it does because unlike with Iran and the silk road guy who had a server in Iceland, the NSA has unfettered access on location at this time

>>60540565
>I ask you simple questions about how exactly they'd find him after he does X Y Z, and you keep answering "I don't know, but I'm sure they must be capable of doing it somehow because they're capable of anything if they really want".

I did answer you, by monitoring all traffic around the wallet to the extend anyone connecting to it could be traced even if using TOR and a VPN, yes it's possible

>>60540565
>Do I have to remind you about how long it took them to find Bin Laden?

Bush was a faggot and stopped looking for bin laden, it took Obama and the CIA about a year to find him once Obama took office and about another year to plan the attack and carry it out, and bin laden didn't use the internet

however fucking over bin ladens assets was something that happened pretty quick

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1643455.stm

>>60540565
This guy knows what's up.

People comparing the search for some buttheads who launched a larger than average randsomware attack to a program that was effectively the culmination of a 15 year American foreign policy ambition are being silly.

>>60540652
>extend
extent

Do I need to remind you that the NSA bugged the Chancellor of Germany's phone and Germany had no idea, or that they were logging and spying on basically ever US citizen and keeping the data in massive data centers? Or that the USA invented TOR?

these hackers will be found, i bet within 2 months

>>60540707
Not >>60540565

But the NSA has been eavesdropping on people for 60 years. That's very different from find an already anonymous person who is actively trying to hide.

>>60540762
just need to eavesdrop on that wallet really hard and they will get em

>>60540652
>with the resources and legal authority, yes
I mean from a technical standpoint.
What would they need to do to monitor the traffic around a BTC wallet?
Because BTC doesn't transmit that kind of information.

>took them years to lock up an iron clad case, they had known it was him for ages
Again, thanks to his stupidity, not their sci-fi capabilities.

>in this case it does because unlike with Iran and the silk road guy who had a server in Iceland, the NSA has unfettered access on location at this time
But the guy only has to exchange the BTCs to XMRs and he's done.
He doesn't have to lead a huge organization with people under him running complex systems where every faux pas can fuck them over.
That's why he can be hidden. Because no matter how good your searchlights are and how many helicopters you have, you're not going to find a single insect in the middle of a forest.

>I did answer you, by monitoring all traffic around the wallet to the extend anyone connecting to it could be traced even if using TOR and a VPN, yes it's possible
Care to post a source?
Because I've asked you multiple times how would they be able to do this, and never got an answer.

>Bush was a faggot and stopped looking for bin laden, it took Obama and the CIA about a year to find him once Obama took office and about another year to plan the attack and carry it out, and bin laden didn't use the internet
>however fucking over bin ladens assets was something that happened pretty quick
Alright, I'll give you Bin Laden.
What about the others?
Especially those who are still at large (many of which operate online with Bitcoins on well-known wallets).

>>60540707
Again, this is the other way around.
It's easy to catch a criminal if you're targeting him personally.
They're not doing that here.
They're just monitoring a digital asset and are waiting for him to reveal himself while trying to get said asset.
This is much harder, and has been often proven impossible.

>>60540669
Thank you.

>>60540774
you talk like a child.

"THEY DO IT REALLY HARD AND THEY WIN BECAUSE THEY'RE THE BEST".

if you don't explain how exactly it works, then it's not really an argument

>>60540788
>I mean from a technical standpoint.
>What would they need to do to monitor the traffic around a BTC wallet?
>Because BTC doesn't transmit that kind of information.

? what kind of information

whoever did this is running a bitcoin node, they are not running an app on their cell phone or they would have been caught already. This external bitcoin wallet lives somewhere and has an address where people can send money. The trick is accessing it to get the money out, to do that you have to access the node you set up and input data

The NSA is all up in this node, the hackers cannot access it without giving up networking info and thus becoming vulnerable. they must know this

If you set up a remote control machine that had 20 felonies worth of stolen money and you knew the NSA knew where that machine was and the blockchains of all the coins in the wallet and was investigating you... would you access that computer?

>>60540874
And it's not possible to access the wallets in any other way?
Not even connecting through proxies and/or Tor?

>>60530009
They'll probably spend it on drugs so no way to ever catch them.

>>60540788
>>I did answer you, by monitoring all traffic around the wallet to the extend anyone connecting to it could be traced even if using TOR and a VPN, yes it's possible
>Care to post a source?

sure, they don't talk about exactly how they do this (for obvious reasons) but they bust people for using bitcoin who irk law enforcement or become high profile all the time

http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/07/10/law-enforcement-still-monitors-bitcoin-arrest-deep-web-users/

give them enough reason, and they will find you

>>60540806
>if you don't explain how exactly it works, then it's not really an argument

IT'S THE FUCKING NSA USING CRYPTOGRAPHY AND ADVANCED NETWORK SNIFFING TO FIND CRIMINALS

DO YOU THINK THEY TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW THAT WORKS?

even when arrests are made the details of how they tracked down the offenders are sealed

fuck man, ill tell you how they fucking do it

THEY USE COMPUTERS AND GAIN ACCESS TO THE NETWORKS PEOPLE USE TO TRADE BITCOINS

>how does a spy satellite work? If you can't give me blue prints for the newest DARPA classified sat, it must not exist!

>>60540907
>>>60540874 (You)
>And it's not possible to access the wallets in any other way?
>Not even connecting through proxies and/or Tor?

Of course that's what they would try to do, and the NSA will be waiting

Tor works if they are not sitting their waiting for you with a team of agents and a 50million dollar supercomputer that maps networks and nodes, Tor does not work if they are

>>60540948
so you have no proof

as expected you keep repeating that they do it because they're super strong and they can do anything they want

substantiate and we'll start to take you seriously

>>60540983
I do have proof and have posted an article about a man busted for using bitcoin via secret goverment investigation techniques

many more such articles exist

the fact they arrest people and find them this way is fucking proof

>>60540874
And now we get back to computer magic. I think we're all in agreement that if these people tried to get their money out right now, they'd be fucked right up the ass. But, they don't have to get it out now. They can get it out in a month. Or 6 months. Or two years. The NSA isn't going to devote resources to this piddly garbage in perpetuity, they've got more pressing responsibilities elsewhere.

Sure, in 18 months some analyst in a basement in Fort Meade will get a notification that somebody transferred a few thousand dollars out of one of these wallets. He'll tell his boss. And his boss will say "Huh? What? Oh yeah, that thing. We'll forward this on to the FBI, let them handle it." And then it'll go to the FBI. And then the State Department. And then some nobody at some embassy in Shitholeistan will ask some other nobody at the Shitholestani Ministry of Foreign Affairs if they can arrest some guy and extradite him for some shit on the internet a couple years ago. But, by then it will be 2019 and that guy will just shrug and that will be the end of it.

>>60540928
That article says absolutely nothing to support your thesis.
It just mentions methods which I've already talked about, that have known solutions.
Nothing about monitoring traffic.

>>60540974
Except there are already many other criminals with a much higher priority, who do exactly that, and never get caught (or get caught for something else).

>>60540997
your article doesn't prove that they have the incredible capabilities that you're talking about.

It just talks about normal shit we all already know.

>the fact they arrest people and find them this way is fucking proof
but they don't
it's always some elaborate setup
never through the bitcoin infrastructure
at most they monitor a wallet's movements up to some transaction that can be tied to someone, and investigate on that clue

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-tracking-system-used-by-danish-police-to-make-drug-traffickers-arrests

>>60541045
>It just talks about normal shit we all already know.

like that they can track down bitcoin users and arrest them?

yeah it's true we do know that
>>60541045
>never through the bitcoin infrastructure

No it comes from tracking bitcoin users and their activity, which is what the NSA is doing now with the ransomfags

>>60530056
right and those "mixers" make it only harder but not impossible. anyway most of them are scammers.
bitcoin will never ensure privacy. they're aids and all other coins too.

>>60541050
That's literally just following the trail through the blockchain, which we've talked about from the beginning (and has many solutions that criminals constantly use).
Nothing about these secret almighty tools and capabilities.

>>60541076
>>like that they can track down bitcoin users and arrest them?
Yes. Through blockchain investigations.
If they can't follow the trail (which is impossible to do with my strategy I posted earlier), they have no other tool to use.

>No it comes from tracking bitcoin users and their activity, which is what the NSA is doing now with the ransomfags
Yes, tracking the blockchain.
Not the traffic or the entire Tor network LMAO.

>>60541096
>right and those "mixers" make it only harder but not impossible. anyway most of them are scammers.
That's accounted for in my strategy.
You simply use multiple tumblers with multiple small transactions to mitigate the risk of tumblers being compromised, being fraudolent, or fucking up, and immediately exchange the Bitcoins for Moneros before the police has the time to tie the input wallet to the outputs.
By making it harder you can buy time to do the operation in a window where everybody thinks your coins are clean because they don't know yet that they're the ransomeware ones.

>>60541045
You could collude with groups the CIA is not going to deal with
Like ISIS

>>60541151
>That's literally just following the trail through the blockchain, which we've talked about from the beginning (and has many solutions that criminals constantly use).
>Nothing about these secret almighty tools and capabilities.

First you say nobody has ever been busted "through the bitcoin infrastructure" then you say "well that's just from following the block chain that they got busted", that's the same fucking thing

You say "it's always some elaborate setup", well no shit, that is what is going on right now, an elaborate NSA monitoring setup combined with other aspects of the investigation (code origination etc...) combined with probably modifying the wallet in some way to fuck over anyone trying to access it.

They admit they are doing all this, they say more arrests are coming, they say they have the full cooperation of other governments

nothing about this is magic, it's monitoring information the criminals made public and associated themselves with and using classified technology to do it

They have been busting bitcoinfags for years, normally without the benefit of the criminal saying "THIS IS MY WALLET, IT'S HOSTED ON THIS NODE, HERE IS THE BLOCKCHAIN OF EACH COIN IN IT"

which is what they did this time when they publicly hosted and gave out the addresses of their wallets for ransom payments

if they try to get those coins, it's going to be a slam dunk for the investigators

there is no chance those hackers get 1 coin out of there

>>60541151
>You simply use multiple tumblers with multiple small transactions to mitigate the risk of tumblers

>implying the CIA/NSA has not thought of this
>implying they are just going to let you log in and do that

that shit only works when nobody knows you are going to do it ahead of time

>just because the NSA has the node where the wallet is, and is making a point after going after these fags, does not mean they could hack or modify it in any way to prevent normal use of the wallet to launder coins

OOOOOOK

>>60541173
>the CIA doesn't deal with a CIA-made group
topkek

>>60541173
>You could collude with groups the CIA is not going to deal with
>Like ISIS

I don't think ISIS take bitcoin

>>60541757
>I don't think ISIS take bitcoin
dogecoin is against their religion

>ctrl+f darkwallet
>0 results

I am disappoint /g/

>>60542709
darkwallet does not make bitcoin anonymous

>>60541757
Mudslimes don't know how to use computers, so bitcoins are beyond them. All they know is killing.

>>60543378
>Mudslimes don't know how to use computers, so bitcoins are beyond them. All they know is killing.

Yes they do, they drones now (and websites)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-using-increasingly-unconventional-weapons-9928395

>>60543446
>http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-using-increasingly-unconventional-weapons-9928395
holy shit

How should they have asked for the money if not bitcoin?

Cash at drop points?

bitcoin is at $2000 now lol

>>60530009
>150 people paid the ransom
kek

>>60546899
nearly 100grand anon

File: laughing detectives.jpg (83KB, 500x610px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 500x610px

>>60539840
>the wallets are probably under a fucking scanning electron microscope by Law Enforcement

>>60532816
Nah they are "niggers"

>>60550003
>Nah they are "niggers"
I want /pol/ to leave

How do kidnappers get money?

wired to swiss bank account, that's what they should have done

>>60530009
>3 three accounts
You have zero idea about how shit done

>>60530009
No way, howsay

>>60553488
>You have zero idea about how shit done
You English good.