Tor or VPN? What do you use? Should I even use both? If they

Both serve completely different purposes.

>>60432554
same purpose, actually work differently.

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>using a US military network to hide from the NSA

It completely depends on what you're doing

For example, do you use torrents?

>>60432624
Uhmmmmmm.........

>>60432508
>pears and apples

>>60432508
You should use both.

Tor is theoretically more secure than a VPN since your data goes through multiple nodes meaning that in order to get your real IP one person would need to control all 4 (IIRC) nodes whereas a VPN could be logging everything you do without any restrictions, although it is in their monetary interest not to do so. For privacy reasons you should use both since the Tor traffic would be encapsulated inside the VPN traffic. Since the traffic is encrypted no one (except for the VPN provider and any government agency they might be cooperating with) will know you connect to Tor. After that the actual connection to the Tor network is shown to be originating from the VPN so even if Tor were to be full of government honeypots they would not be able to tell that you are the one who made the connection. I also recommend using Whonix to tunnel all the traffic inside a virtual machine through the Tor network. With Whonix you also get two layers of Tor traffic (one when you start Tor Browser Bundle and the second one is when you tunnel the traffic through the Whonix gateway). Then put a VPN outside the virtual machine and optionally you can also use another VPN inside. Both the host and guest operating systems should obviously be GNU/Linux configured to be as secure as possible (for guest there are pre-made images for Qubes). Now you can browse anonymously, albeit slowly, without having to trust any VPN provider or Tor!

>>60432951

> Using FUD to scare people away from the only thing that hampers NSA spying.

vpn + tor
vpn first in order to hide the fact you are using tor (to your isp and local authorities).

Simple as that

>>60433394
Or just stop being a criminal?

>>60433496

You first NSA faggot.

Don't you have some child pornography to look at from random webcam footage?

>>60433527
We're watching you, anon, just you wait.

>>60433394
>tor over tor
fail
>tor->VPN
shameless

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>>60433496
...AWkward!

>>60433563

tor->vpn protects you from some threats at the expense of making it much easier for nation states to ID you.

>>60433606
Why're you hiding from your nation state, Che?

>>60432508
neither of them work

>>60433606
with tor->vpn you cant do circuit switching

>>60433618

Because I don't trust spooks to not be political tools. It's happened multiple times in the past century and hiding from them now is a precaution against future politicizing of the Intelligence Community given the permanence of Internet data.

Also they are kinda politicized present day with respect to Copyright enforcement. See: NSA's spy data used by New Zealand against Kim DotCom. I'm still of the Internet Freedom variety and I don't care for political entities to monitor me for political purposes.

>>60433659

Right. The only practical threat I can think of that it addresses is of a single-hop VPN provider sharing network logs with its upstream and downstream ISPs for tracking purposes. I don't know how much of a risk that is admittedly.

>>60433710
>caring
You're just a pedo lol got u fkin fagget

>>60433710
But how're w-... they going to protect you without being able to see what you're doing?
You don't send a child to the park without a vigilant guardian, how're w-... they going to serve as that vigilant guardian without being able to watch you?
W-... they're here to serve you, w-... they can serve you very well, if w-... they cannot see you.

>>60433743
yeah, thats why you use public wifis, 3g sims etc (something not tied to your name) before vpn in case you are very paranoid

>>60433763
>*can=can't

>>60433639
what works then?

>>60433747

Shitty bait is shitty. I gave you my use case.

>>60433778

Sure. That helps to a point. Not the most practical for everyday usage.

NO IDEA

>>60433803
sure
but always remember to segregate your personal traffic from shady stuff.
Maybe you dont need to be always on vpn and/or tor on all use cases

A vpn is never a good idea

>>60433855
That's why I have two Internet connected computering, none with anonymity, security and MAC spoofing and the other to make me look like a normie, this is the Windows PC I use for gaming and normie browsing.

>>60433855

Not everything I want to keep hidden is illegal or even shady. Given that data on the Internet is eternal, I'd rather not risk my present day data being used against me if societal norms change in an unfavorable way.

>>60432508
VPN + Tor = half the battle

>>60433910
sounds legit

>>60433803
>Shitty bait is shitty. I gave you my use case.

You use it because you're a pedo. That's your use case. Are you trying to convince yourself otherwise, you fucking scum?

>>60433894
>has dedicated machines for "safe-browsing"

Nobody here will believe you're not a fucking pedophile criminal rapist, retard.

>>60434016
im not the one you are responding but

go fuck yourself

>>60433983

In case you haven't noticed, SocJus has been going after people and getting them fired from their jobs or worse for CrimeThink or personal political views.

Who saya the next SocJus won't have a jihad against political views I have? I'd rather pre-empt that and not need to worry as I try to get into policy circles in the future.

>>60434016

> trying this hard

Here's your (you).

>>60434067
very good point

>>60434067
>>60434055
>Pedoes being triggered

Everybody hopes you die, you know that right?

>>60433410
> NSA shill trying to bait op into using tor

>>60434207
stfu you fucking normie

>>60432508
>Tor
>addresses are 80-bit sha-1s of 1024 bit rsa public keys.
>uses 1024 bit DH which the NSA is known to be able to crack
Never, use I2P instead.

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>>60434207

Here's another (you).

>>60434232

Yes, of course, because the NSA has more difficulty tracking people on the clearnet than over Tor.

You're fucking retarded.

>>60434207
Seriously, what the fuck?
What right does the government have to my data? Literally none, they're a bunch of cartel bitches working for corporations.
I might as well sign up and have the God damn Sinaloa Cartel as my ISP, may data would probably be even more secure than it is under a corporate ISP or a state ISP you parasite piece of shit.

>>60434311
> what are pipe flags
> doesn't know about the red net
Good luck kiddo

>>60434306
in fact i prefer i2p over tor (because of packet switching, everyone is a relay among other things)
It's the lack of research what worries me...

>>60434421
Doesn't i2p use a Java client? Pretty easily hackable I'd think.

>>60434482
true, there is also a c++ project of it. Not sure if it's the official one.
I think i will wait some years when the project matures a bit more.
Also, recently, people is starting to use i2p because of torrents. Maybe that could give the project the final boost needed

>>60432508
It really depends what you're trying to hide from who. If you're trying to download something from the coffee shop, or you're borrowing your shady friend's internet just use a VPN. If you're trying to hide your terrorism/drugs/illegal porn from the FBI/NSA/CIA you're probably already screwed, but you should be using both.

There's really no use case where you should use only Tor. If the people your hiding from are dangerous enough to require Tor, they're dangerous enough that you should probably double-bag Tor with a VPN.

>>60433801
nothing does

>>60434695

There's threat models of surveillance that don't involve being explicitly targeted. Reducing the effectiveness of passive surveillance and avoiding your Internet History being retroactively associated with your name in perpetuity has value.

>>60434772
VPNs alone are effective for that. You really only need Tor if a nation state is interested in your traffic, at which point the risk that Tor suffers another breach while you're on it are real enough to justify using a VPN with it.

>>60432508
Real /g/entlemen use I2P.

Well, I do at least.
I promise I'm not a hipster.

>>60434832

VPNs are far less effective at that. If you're not connected to a highly populated VPN node, it's not effective in the slightest.

>>60435030
Tell me more. The scenario was avoiding dragnet surveillance of your internet history. VPNs protect your IP unless you're up against nationstate types. You're saying NSA is doing endpoint correlation on all its passively collected traffic? I've heard of them attempting one-off correlations, but nothing in bulk. (and if you're up against a nationstate you should be using Tor+VPN anyway)

>>60435285
One of the earliest Snowden leaks was a training manual for analysts. The training manual had a Q&A section and one of the questions was about VPNs. It was mentioned that a simple port mapping rule on the monitored VPN node was all that was needed to track someone who was VPN'd in. It was also stated that:

1) This doesn't work well on highly used VPN endpoints.
2) The presumption for legal interpretations is that all VPN users are presumed to be foreign citizens for traffic monitoring purposes even if the VPN is physically located in the U.S.

>>60435682
Do you have the source document containing this information?

>>60433394
lol didn't read you faggot. Enjoy /g/ where we bait and call faggots like you faggots for actually typing.

>>60436313
Pretty sure The Guardian or WikiLeaks had all Snowdens slides available for viewing. I'm mobile or I'd get you a link myself but I remember seeing what he's talking about myself.

>>60436468
Thank you for your honesty, I'll go and see if I can dig it up.

vpns not free but tor is slow

>>60436703

Tor has improved a lot speed wise but there's still the occasional end-point node that sucks. Things have improved massively though.

>>60433747
>Projecting

>>60435682
I remember that, but I think at that point you must already be targeted right? They can't retroactively do it?

From:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

> "At some sites, the amount of data we receive per day (20+ terabytes) can only be stored for as little as 24 hours."

That article is still a hell of a read though. If you are being targeted, they have you no matter what.

>>60433494
no, vpn should be used second

vpn WILL release your name if it's up against the NSA for example

If the person using the service though is just a tor exit node, then the NSA are fucked and the VPN service can't really help them

you'll still get caught, but it'll be way harder

>>60437763
>You'll still get caught...
>... but it'll be way harder.
Is equal to:
>You'll still get caught...
>... just piss the NSA off more, so you end up getting pull in a cell with Big Dick Tyrone.

>>60437667

If it can be automated they'll almost certainly do it automatically. This includes un-masking VPN users connecting to sparsely used endpoints.

Also, storage capacity technology has exploded in recent years. You can bet they can store 20+ Terabytes for longer than 24 hours modern day.

And no shit they'll have you if they want you unless you live the hermit life. The ideal is to reduce the reliability of their bulk passive data gathering and analysis systems.

>>60437812
because you might actually make use of the extra time and fuck off to antarctica

it's not like OPsec is worth absolute shit you know

>VPN
Good for browsing websites restricted by your region and preventing DMCA notices when torrenting. PIA is cheap and works pretty well.

>TOR
Use exclusively on public WiFi (aka NEVER your home network) if you're doing illegal shit that would have feds beating on your door and you should basically be safe. I wouldn't suggest using TOR any other way and would also suggest using TailsOS on a USB drive if you're going to use it at all.

>>60437931

Nothing wrong with using Tor from a VPN while you're at your house. That is - so long as you aren't doing something that would result in targeted specialized attention by spooks.

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>>60436450
Muhammad h. Christ, this should be the banner

>>60437972
True, but I'd rather not use TOR on my home network at all. I'll stick to paid VPN services for downloads that the NSA will give fuck all about.

It's not something I'd ever have use for, but I think it'd be interesting to break into a nearby public network and add a network extender so the signal reaches your home and hide it somehow.

>>60432624
Bruh

>>60438041

Hopefully politics won't change to the point where your data becomes interesting to spooks that they could look at retroactively.

>>60437871
>You'll still get caught...
>... get frozen balls and disfiguring frostbite...
>... piss of international law enforcement to a great extent...
>... get crippled with nightsticks when they find you and brain damage from the tasing and beatings...
>... get tortured some more in a CIA blacksite once you've been handed over by Interpol...
>... get tortured some more by the NSA for wasting their time...
>... get another round of beatings, disfigurement and brain damage from the US Marshals or FBI as they transport you to a maximum security federal prison...
>... get put in a cell with Big Dick Tyrone, luckily you can hardly feel him stretching you thanks to being crippled and somewhat brain damaged...
>... they also put you in general population and made it look like you were put in prison for something 'unfavourable'...
>... so you probably end up severely wounded, scarred after having almost exsanguinated as a fat, fingerless; toeless, noseless; earless and toothless retarded wheelchair cripple who's farts no longer make a sound, or simply dead.